How To Care For Others Without Burning Out

In this Live event, we allowed the questions and sharing to arise naturally as we explored the experience of caregiving together. Caring for others can feel very lonely at times, and having the support and community of others walking a similar path can help us feel more connected, supported, and a little lighter.

This track is from a Live Event on Insight Timer.

Transcript

Because I think we all know people that are in the caregiver role and it is nice to know how we can support them, Right? And a lot of it, I would say, Is just, You know, Being a, Listening, Just listening. Letting, Letting them vent sometimes and just without trying to fix it, Right? Just letting us, Sometimes we just need to get things off our chest. We just want to say it. We don't want it fixed. We just want to say it. And so, You know, Each of us can be a good, A good friend to ourselves and, You know, In the caregiving role and to others that are in the, The caregiving role. Yeah. And as you're saying, Jane, Yeah, To some grounding and regulation before you go in, Like that's, That's such an important part of being a good caregiver. Yeah, Or being a caregiver. Actually, I don't even want to say good caregiver, Being a caregiver. Recognizing that, Yeah, We've got to take care of ourselves. We've got to make sure that our nervous system is, Is more relaxed, More at ease, So that we can, You know, Be open to whatever it is that comes. Because we never know in supporting others what it is that's going to come. It's not our agenda. And it can be all sorts of, There can be a lot of challenges. There can be a lot of beautiful moments. And we really want to be there for all of it. We want to be there for all of it. To be open, To not take it on, To not take it personally, To not make some identity out of it, That something, We got a little agitated or something just wasn't going the way we thought it was going to go. But to just recognize that's part of it, Too. And that's why just in the short meditation that we did, Like a feeling our feelings, That's such an important part of, Of being human, Not just being caregivers, But being human, Of really being able to be in touch with our feelings and recognize when our nervous system's getting agitated, But we don't have to make a big story out of it. We don't have to make some identity out of it. Oh my God, I messed up. I'm a terrible person now. I'm a bad caregiver now. Right? The story's never going to help us. The story's trying to lock us into some identity. But to be able to come in and feel, Right? And just notice what's here, Be open to what's here, So that we can keep kind of emptying out the dustbin as well, As we go about our day, Right? Whether, Again, Whether in the caregiving role, Whatever, Whatever. I'm going to say not even a role, But just life. Like sometimes things happen, Conditions come together and things get a little bit chaotic and, And, And then it's over. And then it's over. But we don't usually let it be over, Right? We hang on to it. No, That happened. That happened. It shouldn't have happened that way. And that's the suffering, Right? That's the holding on, Right? We won't let go. Yeah. And so the, The coming into feeling what's here, Recognizing what's here, Acknowledging what's here, Feeling what's here, Having compassion for ourselves, Right? That's the, That's the relief. And we're actually here with what's here. Right. And absolutely, Nicole, Yeah, The first arrow, We all get the first arrow, Whether we're caring for someone and they're not being particularly helpful to our help or receptive, Or they're just making things difficult, Or we're just, We're going about life and someone's unkind to us, Someone is short with us, Someone's dismissive of us, We get stuck in traffic, We got a big bill, Whatever it is, We all get the first arrow. Everybody gets it. But the second arrow is the story that we layer on top of it. This shouldn't be happening, Right? And that's the main theme of the second arrow. This shouldn't be happening. But it happened. It's happening. And so the more that we can recognize, Yep, It happened, Or it's happening, And breathe mindfully and come in and feel the feelings. Normally, The feelings are kind of feeding off of the story, The stories, You know, They're both feeding off of each other. And usually, The feelings really just give more fuel to the story. But then we come in and we feel, We feel what's here, And we breathe mindfully and acknowledge what's here, What's really happening. There's relief. There's relief in that. That's what's happening. But we're always the second arrow, The third arrow, The fourth arrow, The fifth arrow. We're trying to, Oh, But I've got to figure it out. And I've got to, I've got to, I've got to make sure this never happens again. How can I put myself in a situation where I will never get the first arrow again? You're never going to find that situation. And yet, That's what we're kind of looking for, Right, Too. If I just would say this to them, And I would put them in their place, If I just never do this again, Then that will never happen again. And that's not a solution. That's not a solution. That's just adding more fuel to the fire. So, So, So it's the recognizing of that and going, Yeah, Okay, It happened. It happened. Feel and breathe, Be with what's here, Be nurturing to what's here, Bring our kindness to ourselves, Right. And in that, In the grounding there, We can recognize if there's something to do or not. You know, Every now and then there's something to do, Maybe a conversation to be had, But not from a place of, We're having this conversation because I can't take this anymore in my head. So we, We, We come into the conversation in a very, Really kind of bulldozing into it, Because we need a certain result out of this conversation in order to feel better. So instead of approaching it like that, It's like, No, I actually, You know, We can, We can help ourselves feel better by coming in and feeling mindfulness, Self-compassion. And then we can be more discerning, Okay, It does something need to be said, Do I need to do something in this situation? And if I am doing that, Then I'm doing it from a place of compassion and wisdom, Not because I need this person to make me feel better, Not because I need them to do something, But perhaps I do just need to say something, You know, Maybe I do need to say something, But not being so attached to a result, Which usually just, Again, Starts adding on more arrows in the conversation, The conversation generally doesn't go that well. Thank you, Lana. Thank you for the donation. And Simon, Is this Simon, I think we've exchanged messages offline before, Or over email? Is this the same Simon? And who is, If it actually, It probably is because I know you're in a caregiver role as well. Yeah, Jane, I'm glad you jumped on as well. Yeah, I'm glad you jumped on and, And just go be open to what's here. Go be open to what's here. You know. But I think it was wise, You know, Just recognizing, Yeah, To, To, Yeah, Spend a few minutes, Like, Maybe you were in the car as you were waiting to go inside, And just to make sure that you were grounded. Yeah, It's very helpful for us. Oh, Thanks, Nicole. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, One of the things that we talk about in, In self-care, One of the most, Excuse me, In, In caregiving, One of the most common bits of advice that we all receive from others, And very well-meaning, Is, Is we've got to care for ourselves. And, And, And, And, And, And, And, And, And, And, And, And, Like, We've got to make sure that, That, That we put the oxygen mask on ourselves first. Because we're not very much used to other people if we're, If we can't get any oxygen, Right, If we're not caring for ourselves. And, And yet it is a really hard thing for us to do, To take that time and say, You know what, This matters. How I'm feeling, How I'm processing things matters. And, And so to find that balance, And again, All of this really applies to, To life. It really does apply to all of life. Although caregiving, The reason we were doing a separate talk this week on it, Or separate live, Is, Is that it, One of the things, One of the struggles of it is that it's, It's a lot for one person to take on, And it can be really challenging in that response, In that respect. We can feel very isolated with it. And, And it helps to talk about it, It helps to talk about what we're going through. And so Janine, You're saying you're struggling with gentle conversation as there are so many transactional conversations. Every time you go over to your mom in the granny flat, She's got something for you to do for her. So do you mean you're, You're looking for something else in the conversation, Like you're coming over to have a particular conversation, And yet she's, You get there and it's a different agenda? Because I do think, And I'll just kind of go on that until I see your answer, Uh, Often we do have something in mind, Like we're going to, We're, We're going to see the person we're looking after, And we kind of have something in mind, Like for them to be doing, Or, Or to have a conversation, But they have another agenda. And so it kind of becomes this struggle that, You know, We're kind of, You know, We're getting very attached to what we want, And they're attached to what they want. And Simon, Where you're saying it's dementia, Where it's even more of a struggle, Right? Because they're really struggling, And it's, That's an even more difficult place for us, Because it's often not very logical, It's not very rational. Oh yeah, So you would just like to visit and chat, However she has chores for you, Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I guess what I would say in that, Because you're saying that you're struggling with that, You would like to sit and have a chat, Um, But maybe in those chores, She's feeling really well cared for in that. You know, And I, I know, Because I'm, I'm in a caregiving role, It's part-time right now, Where I'm going back and forth, But, But I'm on the phone a lot, A lot with her, Helping her, And it's just, A lot of it's kind of silly little, Not silly, I shouldn't say that, But, Um, Things that could be resolved a lot more, Like kind of financial paperwork, Or kind of, We're dealing with Medicare, Or the IRS, Or things like that. And, And there's many times, It's like, You know, We could take the easiest path on this, Or we could try and keep drilling this down, And she, And there's a part of, Like, Control, And that's what I've noticed, There's kind of this, There's not a lot that she has control of these days, And it gives her this sense of control to say, No, She wants to keep going, It doesn't matter that we've been on, With customer service for two hours, Or we've been trying this for weeks, There's a little bit where she, There's just such a struggle, And, And, You know, Part where, Where I can, I can see that kind of wanting to push back, Like, We could just take, Like, This, Like, This horse is dead, Like, We got to move on, And yet, You can see, It's just such a struggle, That she's so attached to it, Because she's losing control of so many things, And it's just, Okay, This is what's happening, And as best I can, I realize that that's really supporting her, It feels, She feels good, She feels more in control, She feels more in the driver's seat, When we're taking care of all of these little things, Which are just little things, That mostly you would just go, Oh, Forget it, It's going to sort itself out, But she doesn't want to do that, And it's like, Okay, That's how she feels cared for, That's what, That gives her, In fact, It really is, She feels very cared for, That I'm there holding her hand through all of these things, In fact, I'm, I'm the one usually talking, We're just saying, Give me authorization on the phone, They verify it's her, And then I'm doing all of the talking, And it, For her, It's, I have realized there's a real connection in that, That she feels, I'm kind of letting her drive that part of it, And there is a point, There have been a few points where I have had to say, Like, This horse is dead, Like, We can't keep, We can't keep going down this, This road, And she's accepted on those ones, But other ones, I realize, So I do think, Um, Janine, Just noticing how she's there, And I know your mom is, Yeah, You have a granny flat for her, That if maybe you could go to see her and realize that, You know, However you guys are connecting, First of all, The fact that you have her living there with you is, Is just, Um, You know, There, There, In that act, There is so much, Um, Love, Right, In that, And then going over to help her, You know, And I get it through chores, Um, There's also, Those are acts of love when you're helping her, And you're able to just be there, And say, Like, Yeah, If this is what we're doing, This is what we're doing, So that when those conversations, And they will at some point happen, It wasn't like something that was forced, It was something that was like, Yeah, This feels good to be here, You know, And this feels good, This feels right, We're having the conversation, There's not a, A sense of, Of an agenda with it, And I think that's really important that we, Of course, Have certain things that we need to be doing as far as medical, Like, Appointments, And medication, And things like that, And physical therapy, But also to be really open to how this is flowing, That if the more attached we get to it with our agenda, The more that we struggle, And, And the more difficult the whole caregiving becomes for us, So again, Janine, I get you, That you do want to have those conversations, But they're maybe not as transactional as you're thinking, But maybe because you're saying, Like, You have an idea of this is how it should look, This is, We should be having these deep and meaningful conversations, And, And, But maybe it's just a, It's in her asking you to do something, And you doing it, And you're really there doing whatever she's asking you to do, To take the trash out, To put her sneakers on, To help her with whatever it is that she's doing, The more present you are, And realizing, Like, This probably means so much to her, There's so much connection in that, It doesn't have to come always in the deep, Meaningful conversations, Like, We think that, We always think, Oh, It should, There should be these deep philosophical conversations now, We should be talking about the meaning of life, And everything that we meant to each other, And, And those moments come, But they can't be premeditated, Because a lot of caregiving is us recognizing we've got to meet the moment for what's here. Yeah, We could trans, We could, We could absolutely, Uh, You know, Take this for all of life, Meeting life with what's, What's here, Doesn't mean that we can't kind of go in sometimes maybe with a plan, But not being attached to it, And saying, Well, We'll see, Maybe she needs something else today. But the more I think that you, You attach to something that you want it to be one way, Is, Is, I think, What makes, Kind of, You even seeing that the other conversations are more transactional, She's asking for help, And in fact, I even find that, Like, It's difficult for people that have been independent their whole lives, The ones that were caring for us, When we were young, And now having to ask others to do simple things for them. So it could, We could see it in one way as transactional, But we could also see it as, Yeah, She trusts me enough, She's asking me to help her with this thing, And, And to really just bring a sense of care, And, And compassion, And understanding, That's not easy, That's not easy for a lot of people to do. I think we're so, If we're looking for it to be something, We're going to miss what's actually there, We're going to miss what's actually there. So I would, I would, Janine, For you, I would suggest, Like, Noticing, Wanting it to be different than how it is. The more that you notice that you're wanting it to be a different way, You might be missing more in those, Just those little chores. I mean, I have to tell you, When, When, When Marie and I hang up the phone, And we've done something, Then I'm, You know, The phone with the IRS, Or we've done something again, Just, You know, It's taken forever. But just that thank you in the end, In her voice, Right? She doesn't go into some deep philosophical thing about it, And, You know, But it's just that thank you, You can hear it, Just that it really means something to her. That we've spent time on this, It's giving her a sense of control, It's giving her some sense of control, And, And I'm, You know, That's, That's what she needs. You know, She's not following a Buddhist path of recognizing that there's no one here in control, And I'm not trying to push, And I'm not trying to push any of that down her throat, Either. I recognize this is what she needs, She's very attached to it, And so how can I be the most gentle in this situation to just meet her where she is? And there's such, That's, That's deeply meaningful, There's a deep connection, And just that simple, Kind of just that thank you, You realize, Yeah, You know, We can, We can think all that really didn't matter, And why did we kind of chase that down, But it meant something to her. And it, And it helps, Because also, I think, Too, That when people are, Are elderly, And I get that there's probably some people that have younger kids, As well, That are maybe in this situation. But this, You know, You know, That they were so independent, And so strong, And so making all these decisions for themselves, I mean, It's a real shift into not, Not being in that role anymore for them. And wherever they're kind of holding on, It's not our job to necessarily pry their fingers off of it, But to find, To cut, To approach it with compassion and wisdom in a way that really helps bring a gentleness to the situation. Not to force our views on them, Not to, Not to push our views on them. But just to meet each moment as it is, As it is. Oh, Chris, I'm glad you're here. I thought I saw you down there. And Anne, Actually, Gosh, I've got to tell you, You're kind of giving me a little jerking moment here, Because my mother's name was spelled just like yours, With an E on the end. So, You're saying your husband is expecting you to caregive for him, Though you're unable to, Because you're physically unable. He's made his work his priority the past two years, As you've been dealing with your injury, So you've had to find others to help for most of the things you need. But now he's had a recent serious diagnosis and is trying to push for things on you, Totally ignoring your situation, Rather than finding help as you've had to. I have to somehow, You know, Keep your, Your healing a priority without feeling guilty. In the past, You always did. You did always help him through medical things when you were able. Yeah, That, That is a difficult situation, Because you're dealing with your own challenges. And, And then you have a partner that's dealing with his challenges. And Mari, Yes, In fact, And I know for a year, You've been in a caregiving situation for many years now. And that, That can be a real, So, We can notice, And this is what's important, I think, Because we're, We're, We're approaching this on Insight Timer, From a spiritual perspective, Right, From a, And what I would say from a Buddhist perspective is really kind of Buddhism, Non-duality kind of perspective here, Because we're all looking for a relief, Right? We're looking to, We're looking to minimize the suffering. And so, The more that we can recognize maybe if there's resentment that's building towards your husband, And that's okay. That's okay. Whatever you are feeling is a legit feeling. Now, The story of resentment is going to build and build and build, And it's going to go from resentment, To anger, To bitterness, To feelings of despair, Of feeling overwhelmed. It'll just keep hopping and hopping and hopping, And really just taking us down the rabbit hole. So, I think it's, It is really important for us to recognize, Yeah, Those feelings, They're legit. And to, To say, Okay, This is what's here, Resentment, Resentment at being in this situation. Come in and feel that. Like we did, And you weren't here for the beginning of the meditation, But you've been here for enough of my talks, Mari, And enough of my meditations. Like, Come in and feel what's here. Like, You have to acknowledge the resentment that's here. It's not going to go away. It's going to build up, It's going to build up even more. Yeah, Or the stress of how that stress is actually the worst thing for you. Exactly, Anne, Exactly. So, This is where, This is where our mindfulness practice is so helpful. Recognize when you're getting lost in the story of why is this happening, And they should have done this, And I'm trying to do my own thing, And why didn't they help me, Right? And I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that there's not some truth to any of that. But what I am saying is, The longer you stay lost in that story, The more that you are going to suffer, The more difficult that you're making the situation. And it's, And I'm not saying that in a, So please forgive me, I don't mean to say that in a critical way. I'm saying that in a way to point out how easily we can take a difficult situation and just make it worse. And so, The more that you can recognize that, Right, Instead of worrying about the stress, Tending to the stress. Ah, Stress, You're here, You're here. Oh, My love, You're here. Breathe and feel the stress. Allow the stress in. It's here anyway, But as long as it stays tied to the story, There's never going to be relief there. You're never going to find a way to step off in the story. In fact, If anything, It's just going to escalate. So, The more that you can come in and feel and acknowledge what's here, There's stress here, There's resentment here. Not all at once, Like you be with the stress and you breathe and you feel it in the body, Right? So, You're coming out of the story, You're feeling it in the body. Yeah, It's okay. It's okay that it's here. It's here. It's here anyway. So, Allow it to be here. Feel, Breathe. And after a minute or two of allowing the stress to be here, What else is here, Right? This is the eye in the rain, Right? Recognize what's here, Allow the feelings, Inquire what else is here. Ah, Underneath the stress is also resentment. Ah, Okay. Resentment. You're here too. Yeah, Let me give you some space, Some room. And you allow the resentment to be felt, To be expressed, To be noticed, To give it your attention. And then after a few moments of that or a minute of that, And what else is here? And maybe it's fear. Maybe it's fear that you're going to be here all on your own with this, And it's going to be too much. Okay, Fear, You're here too. And you tend to the feelings so that the fire doesn't become something really big and overwhelming, But you keep tending to it. So, You're bringing compassion and kindness. And in that way, It's giving you the strength, And it's also giving you the wisdom to be able to take that next step in a way that doesn't escalate any situation, But maybe that finds the middle path, That maybe that finds just the middle path here. It's very easy for us to feel isolated and like this is all happening to me, And I don't, And how did this happen to me, Right? It's so, It's, Especially in such a situation like this, You're caring for your partner, And there's a lot of things that have already happened, And there's some resentments that are there. It's very easy for it to fester. And so, In this way, We bring our practices to it so that we can tend to our own feelings and feel more grounded, And allow that sense of, Okay, There's a breath here, There's a moment here. Because typically what happens, And Philippa, I'm going to get to your question in a moment, Typically what happens is it just builds and builds and builds and builds all day, The resentment or from the day before and the day before that, Until it just comes out of our mouth, Until it just comes out of our mouth in a way that we don't want it to come out, That doesn't actually sound particularly compassionate or kind, And in fact just escalates the situation, Right? Or we just collapse in on ourselves. So we've got a, I think, A priority, Not just for, Not just for caregivers, Because this really applies in any situation, But we really are trying to focus this on caregiving and this live today, That we've got to keep emptying the dustbin. We've got to keep emptying the dustbin. If we keep filling the dustbin and we never empty it, We will topple over. It'll be too much. It'll be too much for us. We keep expecting the situation to change. We have to change in that we recognize what's happening. And yeah, Your healing is a priority, And your healing is in this moment. It's not something in the future. It's just that breath, That mindful breath. It's enough. Yeah, A little bit of the dustbin getting emptied out there. Like we need those breaks. We need those moments to remember, Yeah, I'm okay in this moment. I'm safe in this moment. This is a difficult situation. Like, We're not denying, We're not putting lipstick on this, And this is where self-compassion comes in. Oh, Sweetheart, This is really tough, Right? We pat ourselves. Oh, Sweetheart, This is really tough. Yeah, This is challenging. Yeah. But we talk to ourselves in a way that helps us to be here with what's happening, Not getting lost in the story, Not getting lost in the story of it. We can either escalate a situation, Or we can dial it back. The way that we talk to ourselves, The way that we talk to ourselves makes such a difference. So, I hope that helps, Anne and Mari, And I hope that helps. And, Gee, Yeah, The peacemaking, I like that. Yeah. So, Filippa. Is this Filippa in Australia? You're, Oh, No, This is a caregiver for yourself, And your grief, And a deep old shoulder pain injury that's extended to your heart, Living in bed with heat pack and hot water bottles. Oh, And I'm just, Oh, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here, Filippa. I'm so sorry. But you're caring for yourself, And your grief, And your shoulder, And that's a lot. That's a lot, Which is why I feel having some community and some support around this can be very helpful, Just to know that you're not alone. It can always feel, It always feels like we are alone in going through whatever difficulties, Whatever challenges happen to be arising in this moment. It feels so isolating, And that almost just kind of puts the final nail on it, Like, That just that sense of I'm the only one going through this. And the more that we can remember, And again, Self-compassion, Just like me, Millions of people around the world right now are their own caregiver, Are dealing with their grief, Are dealing with an injury, Right? Whatever it is that you're experiencing is a normal part of the human experience. It's a part of it. And there is something to be said for that recognizing we're not alone, Right? We kind of, There's almost just a breath, A sense of relief in that. Like, Yeah, Exactly like you said, Angela, It feels like you're stuck, And the whole world is moving on. It feels, It so feels like that. I do get that. I mean, Last year when I was back caring for my mother, And it all happened so fast. And then all of a sudden, I was like, Oh my God, I had my life in Mexico. And then, And as it was looking like, Oh my God, I'm staying here much longer than I realized. I thought I was coming back to help with the surgery, And then months are going on. And, And you're like, What happened? I was one minute here, And then I'm over here. And then you see other people, And it looks like, Look, Everyone else is getting on with their life. And, And the thought is very reasonable. Like, The thought is going to arise. It feels like that. And that's where it's so important where we recognize, Yep, Okay. Breathe in, Feel that. Feel that sense of, Oh my gosh, It feels like I'm somehow on a different track. And how did that happen, Right? It just kind of like, How did that happen? And so we feel that, And we be with that. Because it is still just another perception that we're stuck, And the whole world is getting on. It, It's another perception of how we're perceiving what's going on. But it's not the reality, Or it's not the, You know, We give it a fixed identity, Give ourselves a fixed identity. We're stuck, And everyone else is getting on. But it is the way that we're perceiving it in that moment. And yet that first thought, I'm so glad you said that, Angela, Because I think it's such a normal thought. It's such a normal thought to have, Right? And we, We can't, We can't, We never know what thought's going to arise next. But that is a very common thought. Or even if it's just, Even not in caregiving, But just we're going through a difficult time, Feels like we're stuck, And the rest of the world is getting on. That's the way that, That's the way, You know, The selfing kind of perceives our situation. Putting, You know, Kind of making us feel like we're the only ones in the world that are going through this. And missing that, In fact, Our lives haven't stopped at all. They've changed. They're different. But we're still living. And now we're caring. We're hopefully caring for ourselves as well as caring for someone else. And so, Not to feel badly because we have that thought, That is such a normal thought, Particularly in caregiving. It's a normal thought. But to come to that thought with kindness, And care, And compassion, And go, Yeah, It does feel like that. It does feel like that. So let me breathe and acknowledge that sense of feeling, Like the whole world is getting on, And I'm stuck. Let me just acknowledge that. Right? So think of the compassion, And wisdom, And acknowledging that. Yeah, It's okay to feel that. It's okay to feel. It's okay to acknowledge this feeling of being stuck. But if we stay lost in the story of it, We will remain stuck. We will remain like that. But when we come in, And we feel it, And we breathe, And we really bring kindness to it, It's okay. Oh, Here you are feeling stuck. Here you are feeling left behind. Everyone else is going about their day, Their lives, They're continuing on. And here's that feeling of being stuck. And we nurture it in a way that allows it to be seen. Right? We give it our attention, And our attention is love. Our attention is love. And we give it the love that it needs. It doesn't need to be beaten down. It needs love in that moment. And by doing that, Then the feeling starts to settle down. Right? And there's a sense of, Ah. Because the compassion, And the wisdom, That we're bringing in self-compassion, We're breathing with what's here, Breathing mindfully, Feeling it, Allowing it to be here. We're not pushing back anymore. We're not struggling against what's here. So the compassion, And the wisdom, The capacity continues to grow even more in us. And then the compassion for ourselves, Right, Really opens us up in a way that goes, Yeah, Whoo, I was having a tough moment. There was kind of a little bit of a thought of me being left behind, But we can see that it was like, It was a thought, And it was a moment, And there was a struggle, There was a challenge, But I tended to it. And in that, We have the spaciousness, And we have the room to be able to keep going, And ah, Yeah, It's okay. And to see that whatever situation we find ourselves in, It's never one thing. It's never one thing. Right? There's challenges in caregiving, There's challenges in life, And there's joyful moments, And there's touching moments. Right? It's never one thing. And so from our perspective here, From coming on an insight timer life, We're bringing our spiritual practice here, Because this is where it's really helping us. To not get stuck and mired down in the stories, But to recognize the stories, The thoughts, They're normal parts of this, Of caregiving. And to acknowledge, Yeah, Just like me, Millions of people around the world feel stuck, And as though their whole lives, Everyone else is going on without them. And in that, Every time we come to what's here, We tend to what's here, We soothe. What you will find is a sense of ease, And you will find the relief that you're looking for. You're not going to find it in the story, But you will find it here, In being with what's here. So I'll go, It's… So Angela, You're saying, First of all, On your son, Did I miss a message from you about your… Oh, I did, I'm so sorry. Always feel free to push me back to the comments. Sorry, So you're saying you're struggling to care for your son who had a mental health breakdown, And is using drugs to cope, There seems no light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, Okay, I'm so sorry. It's so hard to witness, And I can't seem to think of anything else. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so, So sorry. Because that's also, That's a, It's a different, You're in a… How old is your son? Not that this really makes too big of a difference, I'm just… How old is your son? Is he still at home with you? Nineteen, So still at home with you, As well? Yeah, And he's at home with you. Okay, Yeah, This is not an easy situation, Because he is 19, And you can't make the decisions for him. And he, You know, So he's having, You know, Had a mental health break, Breakdown. He's, He's self-medicating, He's coping with it. I'm sure you're probably offering him good options, But he's not willing to take them in this moment. And it can seem like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. This has got to be one of the hardest things for a parent, To see their kids making one bad decision after another, And to feel so helpless in that situation. And I, And I think, Again, The best that you can do for him is doing the best for you. Recognizing your sense of helplessness, Your sense when you say, When you say, I can't think of anything else. That's overwhelming you, Because probably you're thinking about a million different scenarios of what could happen, Replaying things over and over. And it's just, It's almost, It can feel like, Yeah, Of course there's no end, No end, Excuse me, No light at the end of the tunnel when you're feeling like that, Of course. So as best you can, Angela, To acknowledge that, To acknowledge what it is that you're feeling. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling, You know, Whatever thread you can get, Right, Whatever it is that you notice is kind of the most predominant there. I feel helpless. I feel helpless. Okay, There's your, There's your in to be with what's here, The feeling of being helpless. And so you can breathe, Yeah, Breathe and feel. And meditation for sure helps. Being, So the meditation helping you also to keep your nervous system more, More relaxed, More at ease. So you also notice when you're starting to, When the agitation is starting to happen in the body because of the thoughts, But then coming in and really nurturing yourself in that moment. Okay, There's helplessness here. There's helplessness here. It's okay for helplessness to be here. It's okay to feel that. And the more that you come in and you feel the helplessness and you give your attention to the helplessness and you say, It's okay, My love, I'm so sorry I haven't given you my attention before. You've got it now. And you breathe and you feel it. And as you do that, And the helplessness kind of maybe starts to feel a little more settled, And then you go, What else is here? You keep inquiring what else is here? The frustration of it, The regrets of it, The resentment of it, Right? Not, You know, Bringing them all in at once, But one at a time, Bringing in each feeling around what's happening so that you tend to it, So that you can be more grounded and be here for what's happening. Because out of that, Out of the helplessness, There's a sense of fear. There's a sense of stress, Of overwhelm. We want to, We so like, Oh, And I've got to do something. I've got to do something, Right? There's always that sense then, Because in the stress, Right, Stress, For us as a survival system, Stress was very binary for us for millions of years, Right, Or hundreds of thousands of years, Right? That it was something's happening, Run, Fight, You know, Or freeze, Right? So these were kind of our options, Like, So not, Well, It's actually kind of hitting a different system, But typically in stress, It's fight or fight. And so there's this kind of wanting to, Exactly, The wanting to fix things, But we can't find the solutions because we're lost in the fear, Right? And the more that you can acknowledge the fear, The helplessness, The anxiety, The stress, The more that you can come in and be with it, It can guide you then. You can be guided in wisdom, In saying, Okay, I recognize what's here. And then when you're more, More grounded, When you're feeling a little more safe, Because you tended to everything that was here, Then you can, You're not coming from a place of, I've got to act, But it's, Do I need to act? Is there anything I need to do right now? Or perhaps I can realize I'm, He's here at home. I'm giving him three meals a day. I'm letting him know I'm here for him. I'm letting him know he's cared for, But I'm also recognizing I can't fix him. He has to want to get help himself. And the more pressure that we push on someone, Put on someone else, The more of our anxiety and stress, The other person can pick up on that as well. That it's not really, It's not benefiting the situation, But the more that you can find, I'm not saying a sense of like, Of indifference, No, That you absolutely care, But you're able to look at, You're able to be with the pain because you're able to be with your pain. When you're able to be with your pain, Your fear, Your sense of helplessness, Your sense of overwhelm, Your stress, Right? That's compassion. You're being with your pain. You're not looking away from it. And that increases your capacity for more compassion, Which is being able to look at another person's pain without having it overwhelm us. That we can be there fully with them in that moment. We can, We can feel in that moment what's going on, But we don't have it overwhelm us. And so we're more, More likely to be able to navigate the situation more skillfully because he is walking his path right now. And, And you are definitely as his mother, A part of that path and how you meet what he's struggling with can have an effect, But not the effect that you think the way we typically think that we can force something through. That typically doesn't work in these situations, Almost never works in these situations and, And just creates more stress and anxiety. So the more that you can recognize that and say, Okay, I've got to try something differently. Can I have compassion for myself? Because you're a mother and this is your 19 year old son. And of course it hurts to see what he's going through. So the more that you can be with it and feel it and have compassion for yourself, That is in fact, The more that you can be okay with it, Is a better being with your own feelings, The better you can be with him. And even if it's that giving him that space, Because he is walking his path, You don't know how this is going to turn out. You don't know. And, And to keep remembering that. So you keep coming back, You keep coming back to what's here so that you can see what it is that's happening. You can see how it's unfolding. You can see how you might need to respond in a particular situation. And it might be that, That there's no response or no, No action, At least maybe it's you're with him. And there's just the recognition that there's really not a lot I can say here. There's not a lot I can do in this situation, But I can just sit here and I can be quiet or I can just sit here and just kind of have my heart open to him without having to try and fix this. Because I think that's what you've been trying to do. And it's a natural response. Of course, Every mother's going to try and do that. Of course. But it doesn't, It doesn't end up helping us. It doesn't end up helping them. Everyone's walking their own path. And we want to be there to support people. We want to be there to have concern for them, To be able to be available to them if they need us. Right? Or just, Yeah, To be available. But not with this, This, Of course, You want him to get better and to have that wish for him to get better. But the more that you try and control it, And the more that you get attached to it, The more that you suffer, And the more that the whole situation becomes overwhelming. Yeah, And I'm glad that this was helpful, Angela. I'm glad this is helpful. It's not easy. It's not easy. So, You know, Just doing your best in each moment. And sometimes this is enough just we kind of get those words as a little bit of a wake up to go, Oh, Yeah, Yeah, Okay. Right? It's, Yeah, Sometimes we just need a little bit of a wake up to say, Hey, Hey, Hey, Come back into what's here. And then we can remember, Oh, Yeah, Yeah, That's going to be the path. It's still going to be challenging. It's still going to be challenging. But you tend to the feelings that are here. And then every time you're tending to feelings, That's direct experience. That's directly experiencing what's happening in this moment, Right? Tension, Contraction, Worry, Fear, Like the feelings of it, Right? Like you're here with it in this moment. And in that, In the presence of being here with what's here, We are guided. Our actions and our thoughts are guided from a much more heart-centered, We'll say a heart-centered, Or just, There's so much more, There's so many more options when we're coming from presence. It can be the option to do nothing. It can be the option to just send a text and say, Hey, Sweetheart, I love you. I'm thinking of you. But there's no attachment in the message, Right? People can tell when we're even texting and we're kind of fishing for something. There's no attachment in it. So the presence can guide you to act or not act, To send a message or not send a message, To pop your head down and check on him or do not pop your head down and check on him. It can guide you far better than the story is guiding you, Which is probably in some ways in that trying to fix and fix and fix and fix kind of mode probably does end up in a lot of paralysis because there isn't a lot that you can do. You know, That paralysis, The freeze, The freeze mode, Right? So yeah, Just doing your best, Doing your best, Angela, Doing your best. Just doing your best. Oh, Sarah, That's wonderful. I didn't know about the tender hearts with David Kessler. That's great, Too, Because support is super helpful. It's super helpful. Right? Because we need these reminders and we need sometimes this space to say like, Hey, It's okay. Like, Let's all share what's going on and we can all be reminded. Right? We're all, We're all helping each other on the path, Right? I just want to go back here because I know there were a few more messages. Oh, Hi, Bobby, And I'm going to come down to you in a moment. Hang on. I just want to go back and say hi to Kelvin as well. Because I wanted to come to, So is this, Is this Pamela? Oh, No, Ella. Ella, Welcome. And Abby, Where you're saying it seems like there isn't any joy, It's just getting through each day. Yeah, I mean, It's, It can feel like that. It really can feel like this. I, I feel like when we're, When we're kind of in that place already where it's like we, We can't see any joy. It's because we haven't let anything in. And I know I keep coming back to the feelings because that's what it is. Right? Is the story is saying there's no joy here and the feelings and the oppressiveness of, Of kind of just the, The grind of, Of caregiving. You know, And, And also just making sure that you are having some time to yourself. And this is not something that's easy for us to do, But we do need some time for ourselves. So, Abby, As best you can to have some time, Whether it's someone to come over and, And cover for you for 30 minutes or there, Or whoever you're caring for is taking a nap and you can have them rest for 30 minutes, That in those 30 minutes, You go do something that does bring you joy. Go for a walk, Look up at the sky, Hear the birds, You know, Breathe and be with what's here. Because there's little moments of joy that are, Are here, But we miss because we're so caught in, In the grind of, Of the day, As you, I'm kind of using that word grind because you're saying it's just getting through each day. And, And kind of getting through each day, It, It implies like there's, Things are getting stacked on throughout the day. And there's just a heaviness to what's going on. Right? It's almost like one thing happens. I've got to get this done. Then I got to get that done. I got to get this done. And we're not connecting how much of that grind is really through the thought of I've got to get through this instead of I'm here for what's happening. Yeah, There's certain things that need to get done. But to notice when it's starting to get that heaviness, It's like we kind of, Well, You just keep going back to the dustbin analogy, Right? The, The dustbin is getting filled and it's like you got to empty it. And, And sometimes that means, In fact, Very often it means to take a break. And even if that break is just simply just go in the bathroom, Right? And you just say, I'm just going to go in the bathroom. And you're just there and you breathe mindfully and you feel what's here. And just in that breath, In that spaciousness, In that peace, In that gift of kindness to yourself and recognizing that you matter and giving yourself that little bit of a break, Right? It's like, Oh, There's actually just a little joy in just kindness to ourselves. Just those little moments. We need those little moments. They matter so much. And then it might turn into you saying, I do need to have some more time on my own, But to maybe go to a yoga class, To go for a long walk, To go work out, To go sit outside and just read a book. But you do need some time for yourself. So being very careful, Very mindful, Very mindful of, Of how we, How we spend that time that we do actually have when we don't have to be in that exact caregiving role, Right? So like Bobby, Where you're saying, You know, Burned out, I see you are in, Coming in from Connecticut. And first of all, Can I just say to you, Because I, And I've said this many times, I don't know, I probably said it a couple of times on here, But I've said it to so many friends. Being in the hospitals last year with my mom, I, I have no greater respect for any other profession than nurses. They have my highest, Utmost respect. I cannot believe how amazing the nurses were. I mean, They are there, You know, 12 hour shifts. They, Anything you needed, They were there. They felt, I felt like they knew more than what was going on in the doctors sometimes. They did. And, And so, Yeah, I mean, You're caregiving and probably 12 hours. So you're in Connecticut. Yeah. It's, It's, You know, Four 12 hour days. I mean, It's a lot. It's a lot of being there for another person and whether we're doing it in a, In a professional capacity or we're doing it where for many of us, We're not trained for this role. And yet we're finding ourselves in this role. When we have that downtime, Don't reach for your phone. Unless of course you're coming on insight timer. Like if you're coming on to something that's going to really help you to, To find a sense of community, To be able to, Uh, Uh, You know, Vent because we do need to vent sometimes we need to just get it off our chest. But, But to also recognize what you need is something that's going to give you some openness, Some spaciousness, A sense of ease, A sense of, Of opening your heart, Of feeling supported. And so just to be really careful of not going on social media. I mean, Oh, Oh, It is the, The, The plague of our times. I mean, It's a cancer, It's a virus and, And talk about them feeling like everyone else is going on with their lives while we feel like, Oh my God, I'm stuck. Cause of course everyone's posting their highlight reel, Avoid social media, Avoid the news. You don't need to be bogged down by more news, Right? If you want to watch something, Watch some comedy, Have a good laugh, Have a good belly laugh, Right? Or again, Coming on and finding community, But also like recognizing going for a walk, Looking up at the sky, Right? I mean, Doing things that help you to, To really empty out the dustbin, To really empty out the dustbin. It's just so important. Because as we do that, Then we don't, We don't see the world, You know, It no longer becomes, How am I going to get through the day? You've emptied it out. And then there's an openness and a spaciousness. And so that you can meet each moment with more of an openness and spaciousness. And there's more, There's more joy in those moments when we're not having to say anything, We're not having to do anything, We're not having to fix anything. I talked about this the other week when we did do a Dharma talk on this about caregiving, Like don't get lost in the identity of being a good caregiver, Right? Throw out any identity making in this. I'm in all of life, Of course, But also in caregiving. So that you can just be, You know, These are the conditions. Be open to what's here. When you leave a situation, So like Bobby in your case, And you're in ICU, And you're really seeing people that are really critically sick, Or just any of us that were caring for someone and they're really having a struggle in that moment, We're there with it, A hundred percent. The heart quivers, And we feel it. Maybe there's some tears. And as there's, You know, Maybe it's time for them to have a rest, Or the doctor's coming, Or something, And you're kind of walking away from the situation for a little bit, Breathe and feel so that you allow it to move through you. So that when you're with them, It's whatever is here, You're here for it. Not without, How can I be the best at this? How can I appear the best at this? What do I, What should I be doing? A lot of the times it's just being there. The fact that you showed up at all. That you showed up at all. But we have a tension around it, A tightness around it. And that also, We don't see the joy in just, There's joy in sitting and sometimes not needing to fix anything. And just what is it that you need? Taking ourselves out of it, And we can find there's a joy in that. I'm not denying the struggles. I'm not denying Abigail, I think it was. Abby, Sorry. I'm not denying the struggles. But it's never one thing. It's never one thing. Whatever it is that's arising, It's never one thing. In the challenge, Right? In the challenge, Your patience in that challenge is maybe softening the situation. In that challenge, Someone that's asking for your help, And it's really hard for them to do that, You know, They're kind of really struggling with it. And when they feel that you really meet it without any judgment, Without any, That you just meet it openly, Like this is what needs to happen in that openness. There's a connection in that. And we miss that so much of the time, Because we think, Well, It should be this way. It's supposed to be this way. Why isn't it the way it was in the book Tuesdays with Maury? That's what I thought caregiving was supposed to feel like, Right? Because that was a book. I mean, On a true story. But you know, We kind of imagine, No, It was supposed to be this way. And it's like, It's not. It is how it is. It's happening how it's happening. It's happening how it's happening. And the more open that we can be, Not just in the caregiving challenge, The situation, But just life. This is what's happening. Okay. You can still think, Right? But not getting so caught up in how am I appearing? Am I doing a good job? How am I going to get through this? That's just adding more and more weight on your experience. Weight that's not necessary. And you recognize that, And it kind of all falls off. Or again, You empty the dustbin. It's like, Well, What's here? But if we look at each day through the lens of how am I going to get through it, We've already put a lot of water spots on the lens. We've already put a lot of dirt, A lot of dust on the lens. We can't see everything. We're seeing it all in a very specific way. But when we throw that away and say, Okay, How can I meet each moment as it is? How can I bring more kindness to myself in each moment? Right? Just that intention. How can I bring more kindness? Oh, I could breathe more mindfully. I could use some more self-compassion. Oh, Okay. Maybe that'll help. Let's see. And see for yourself if it makes things feel a little more open, A little more light, Less oppressive, More light. Light meaning lightness, Right? You feel more lightness. You have more energy. So it's good to be able to say it all out, Right? We all want to get it out and say it. And sometimes, You know, Abby and Angela and Bobby and Anne and Shira and Nicole, Everyone. So I mean, It's good to be able to also just say it. Like, Sometimes you also just want to have a good friend that you can call up and say, I just want to get this off my chest. And I just want to say it. I don't want you to fix it. I don't want to do anything else with it. I just want to say, I'm frustrated. This is what happened, Right? That is also helpful. And I think with the right person, When we say it with the right person, Like, Please don't try and fix this. Can I just say this all? That can also be helpful just to get it off your chest, Just to get it off your chest. But to not forget our practices here, To not forget the heaviness of taking an ever-changing situation, Which is life, Changing moment by moment by moment, And trying to concretize it down into one thing. Because that's not, That's life is constantly changing. Things are arising and changing and changing and changing and changing. And whatever it is that's arising is never one thing, Right? It might be someone's anger at you for a moment, The person you're caring for, Right? But in that moment, For some reason, Because you've been being kind to yourself and there's been more compassion, There's just a recognizing, I don't want to let this situation escalate. And I'm just going to breathe and I'm just not going to say anything. I'm just going to sit for a few moments, Right? So wow, Look at the wisdom and compassion that was kind of coming, Meeting that anger, Right? Not one thing. It's never one thing. Okay, Let me see what else is. Oh, So Shira, Sorry, You're saying you found it so hard to remember only the wrong things maybe that you did sometimes, Right? So hard sometimes, More the caregiving itself sometimes for me. Yeah, I mean, That's a lot of the challenge in it, Right? And a lot of us are learning this as we go. We're not trained for it. And it's a lot of trial and error. And that's where, Again, The compassion for ourselves, You've stepped up to help, Right? That initial spark of compassion that we have in ourselves that says, Yep, I'm going to be here, I'm going to do this. We want to keep nurturing that. And the mistakes which are inherent, And Bobby can probably attest to this as a nurse too, There's just no way you're going to get everything right, Right? Whether it's just something, You know, Just something, Oh, They ordered, You know, Whatever it is, There's just no way to be 100% right all of the time. The 100%, The perfect caregiver, Which is why I do say, Get the idea of being a perfect caregiver out of your head. Because then every little thing you did wrong, Right? I'm not the perfect caregiver. There is no such thing as a perfect caregiver. The best caregiver is the person that takes themselves out of it and says, There's going to be mistakes, There's going to be ups, There's going to be downs, There's going to be things that go really well. It's going to be many, Many, Many things. And when mistakes happen, We acknowledge it, Take responsibility for it. You know, If we have to say something about it, Like we have to own up to something. Self-compassion, Self-compassion. Oh, Sweetheart, That was tough. Yeah, That didn't go as expected. Yep, No problem. We've got to be able to let those, Again, And this applies in any capacity in our lives. But it is a unique role when you're caregiving for someone else, And again, Particularly when you're not trained for this and it's very much trial and error. But we all make mistakes in life. Everybody makes mistakes. And we can, We could also sit here and focus all day long. I could give you a massive list of all the mistakes that Meredith has made throughout her life. It doesn't help anything. It does, Because the mistakes, The mistakes when we feel this, Like, Oh, I can't believe I did this, And the regret and the anger towards ourselves, The guilt, Which is anger towards ourselves, That doesn't, It doesn't leave any room to just kind of think about, Oh, Could I have done something differently? Of course, At the time, You couldn't, Because that's the way it played out. But can I learn some, Can I learn something from this? But we can't learn anything if we're too busy pushing back on it, If we're too busy pushing back on ourselves, Because no, This just means I'm a terrible person. This just means I'm hopeless. This means I'm useless, And now I'm to do anything else. Right? And now that's the lens in which we're seeing everything. So I think it's, It's really important that we acknowledge, Not just in caregiving, But in all of life, Mistakes happen. That's just part of life. That is part of life. Be kind to yourself. Acknowledge it. Yeah. I mean, Usually in the mistake, What kind of the holding on to the mistake is because of an identity that we formed in our minds of who I'm supposed to be. And whoever we think we're supposed to be doesn't make mistakes. And so the moment a mistake happens, Oh my God, This was terrible. I can't believe this. I'm supposed to be the perfect caregiver. I'm supposed to be the perfect employee. I'm supposed to be the perfect partner, The perfect parent, Right? No such thing. No such thing as perfection. And this path is not about finding perfection. It's about finding ways to acknowledge, Yep, Mistakes happen. Clean up what you need to clean up. Apologize if you need to apologize, If something needs to be done. Most of the time, It's just us being overly hard on ourselves. Most of the time, We're just being, Again, We're twisting it. We're twisting a little mistake, And we're making it into something. Oh my God, I'm such a terrible person. You know, A mistake happened. Feel it. Be with it. Allow that kind of, Oh, That kind of punch in the gut, Right? Oh, Shoot, I made a mistake. Feel it. Nothing wrong with feeling it, Acknowledging it. Nothing wrong with learning from it. But the more that we cling to it, Right, It's because we're kind of like, Oh, I thought I was supposed to be perfect. You're not going to be perfect. None of us are going to be perfect. It's not going to happen. Bring self-compassion to what's happened. Just like me, Millions of people made a mistake today. Yep, Right in this moment. Yeah, Human, Natural part of the human experience. Natural part of the human experience. Okay, And I think there was another question. Oh, Shira, So I think your question still, Or your comment still relates to, It's hard not to remember only your wrongdoing. It's, You know, When you're aware, And I've given this out before, We talked about this not too long ago, At the beginning of the year, When we talked about the peace is not resisting mantra, And to write out your top 10 playlist. If you're aware that you're particularly hard on yourself, Like write down, Sorry, Your top 10 playlist of most common thoughts. While we're all having the same types of thoughts, Some of us have a tendency towards others, More maybe on the comparing side, More on the self-judging, Maybe on the judging others, Maybe on resentment, On regret, On feeling kind of that, Or aversion towards other people or something, Or situations. When you write them down, And you know, These are the ones that are the most common. These are the ones that are going to come back. When you write them down on a piece of paper, And you can expect them, Right? And because you wrote it down ahead of time, It gives you, It kind of, It doesn't catch you quite so off guard. You knew it was coming. You knew it was going to come. It's like, Oh, And this is where my mindfulness practice comes in. Here it is. Here it is. Here it is. Oh, Self-loathing. I was expecting you at 1pm. Okay, You're here at 1. 30, Right? Or fear about the future. Oh, I knew you were going to come at some point today, And here you are. And you breathe, And you feel it, Or it's jealousy, Or it's, You know, Feeling insecure. It's feeling unworthy. Whatever it is, You write it down ahead of time, And you look at that list every day, And you go, Yeah, These are the thoughts that are going to come. There'll be others, Of course, Too, But we all kind of have some common ones there that we know. And the fact that you said that, Shira, Like, You know that one, Right? Like, Angela, You know the wanting to fix this. You know that's on your list. Oh, There it is. Janine, You know it's, I want the gentle conversations, And I don't want what I perceive as the transactional. Oh, So when the story starts building, You're more likely to catch it. You're more likely to catch it. And it's that awareness of it that allows us to, Here it is, Allow the feelings, Inquire, Nurture, Right? And every time you do that, Now you're healing. But we have so many, So many little wounds inside of us, So many little wounds that keep getting triggered, Keep getting picked over by things that are happening. We don't tend to our feelings, But behind every thought of jealousy, Behind every thought of envy, Every regret, Every feeling of being overwhelmed, Of wanting to change our situation, There is some unmet wound here, And we want to get to that, Right? That they're, They may be arising in a version of a situation, But it's like there's something else here. What is it that, What is the feeling like? And I use this as an example all the time, Jealousy. Like we all think, Oh, I don't want to feel jealous, Oh my gosh. But we always think of it as such a deplorable emotion, But everyone feels it, Right? To some degree or another. But when we really unpack jealousy, Right? Maybe jealous of, Oh look, They're off living their lives and I'm here stuck behind, You know, I'm stuck, You know, Or I've envy over their lives, Right? And it's like, Oh, What is it that's really here? And the more that we come in and we inquire and we acknowledge just, Okay, Jealousy is here, Right? We feel and we breathe it, Right? We're here with what's here, Right? Or we're envying someone else's life. I know there's little slight differences between jealousy and envy, But right, It's kind of just this, Oh, I don't like what I have, I want what someone else has. And what we can acknowledge when we get to that feeling, Once we're really here with what's here, We can acknowledge that, Oh, Actually what's here is this fear there's not enough for me. Everything's going off without me and now I'm getting left behind. Oh, Sweetheart, Yeah, Oh, Sweetheart, You're not getting left behind. I'm here with you, Right? And so we tend to that feeling and go, Yeah, Here it is, The feeling of I'm not enough or everything's, Everyone's moving past me, Right? That feeling that there's not going to be enough left for me, Right? And it's like, Oh, Sweetheart, Yeah, Let me feel you too. There's room for you, Right? And now we bring that sense because it is just a story in our head that there's not going to be enough left for me. But we believe that story in our head, Right? We believe whatever thoughts are kind of traveling through, Thoughts that we didn't choose, Right? And then you feel and you tend to it. And so now you start getting really to those underlying maybe beliefs that, There's not going to be enough, That scarcity mindset, Right? And now you're getting to it, Now you're tending to it. And hi, Monica, Good to see you. So, And I'm going to come back to you in a moment, Bobby, So you're saying, Shira, It's the hard time with no quiet time to digest it. So, So not possible without, Indeed, Like it have to stop for a second and then you'll manage it. Stop a regroup with everything. Um, It is, It's hard, It's hard. And we do need space. We don't give ourselves nearly enough space. We don't give ourselves enough time to be not distracted and not doing. We don't always have to be doing and we don't always have to be distracted. In fact, Please try and do less of it. More being, More being. Okay, So, Oh, Melissa, Good to see you. So, You took care of your father. Yeah, Watching him lose his independence was difficult, Especially flying back and forth. But knowing he lived his best life. Oh, And you're in Naples tonight touring. Touring? What do you do that you're touring and grateful to be living too? You know, Your dad would be happy for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a, It's such a gift to be with someone at their most vulnerable time, At their most vulnerable time, When they're losing their independence. You know, And, And, And, You know, We have to do remember, Remember this or as best we can to remember from both sides that they really are struggling. I mean, I have seen this directly, Like, Man, This is challenging. We'd like to think that we would, We would all just kind of give up that independence so easily. But you never know until you're in that situation. You never know until you're there. Right. And so it's just, You know, The more that we can, The more that we can really be there for others and really recognize just exactly what you're saying there, Ella, It's a blessing to care for a loved one. I really felt that for my mom. I feel that for Maria now. I'm grateful that I have the conditions that I'm able to do this. Uh, And it doesn't mean that it's not challenging at times. Of course it does, Because there is something that we give up as well in being caregivers. We give up, You know, The, What our lives were looking like before the caregiving began. And it's, And it's expense of traveling back, Sounds like you lost Melissa, Like traveling back and forth. Um, It's a real, You know, We've, We've, We've, The, The choice, The choicing has happened that we're like, I want to be there to help someone. And there is things, There are things that we're giving up for, But there is such a joy. And I genuinely feel this. And I, I experienced this in really being there for another human being. But that also includes being there for ourselves. We have to be able to be there for ourselves as well. Recognize when we're at our limit, Because of course we have limit, Limitations, But it is such a beautiful gift to be there for someone else. And, And really this is where, I mean, I just find that having been on a spiritual path for nearly three decades now, It was really all the preparation for caring for my mother last year, And for how I'm caring for Maria now, Because you have to take yourself out of it. You won't find the joy if you're, If you're, So, So it's a balance between saying like, Yes, We do need self-care and we need self-compassion, But we've got to take ourselves out of it if we're, If that, If the spark of compassion in us was there to say like, We raised our hand, I want to do it. We want to keep nurturing that, And you will keep nurturing that by taking yourself out of it. Meaning don't get lost in any identity, Don't get, Don't get, Or notice when you're getting lost in the identities. Notice when you're grasping at results, And I need it to be a certain way, So that you can see in that grasping, Oh yeah, It's just, It was starting to come back in, I needed it. Who needed it to be a certain way? We're not meeting the moment as it is, And the more that we recognize that, And the more that you truly do meet each moment as it is, Even the really challenging, The difficult moments, You know they're not going to last, And, And you're, You're not trying to force something, But you're meeting the moment in the way that it needs to be met, Or at least the, The, You're meeting each moment as it is, Without grasping, Without aversion, Without trying to control, That you do find there are a lot more moments of joy and connection, And there is just such a sense of, Of man, It's a gift to be able to do this. It's a gift. Yeah. Okay, Bobby, I think I'm now up to your, To your, All your, Your, Your comments here, Yeah. Oh, So you're saying you have, You have a group here on Insight Timer, Okay, Called Many Paths, Five meditation rooms open in each of the three, Oh, And three main time zones, That's great, That's wonderful. Oh, Thank you, Ella, Thank you for the donation. Yeah, I mean, Support, Support is so helpful, It's so helpful. It's one of the things I find we really, It's really missing from our culture today in the West, In the West, Is community. It's, Everyone, I mean, It's, It's funny how people can live, Like, Right next door to people, But not know their neighbors, Right? That would have never happened, Like, Growing up, Like Libby, My sister here, So where we grew up in Virginia, Northern Virginia, Like, Everyone knew each other, Right? The whole, Like, We knew every neighbor, We knew every kid, Um, It was like you knew everyone, And it's so different, It's so different today, And I think one of the really, The beautiful things on Insight Timer is just how we can come together in a community like this, And, And just to be there and support each other, Right? Because we have people from, We do have people from all three time zones, Right? This is why I do it at this time, Noon, Starting at Pacific time, Because we've got U. S. Covered, We've got Europe, I know it's late for you guys, And Australia, You guys are getting up early, Right? There's Kylie, I see you in Australia, Janine from Australia, I know there's someone else I saw going across, Libby, My sister from Australia, Um, So we kind of, You know, So that we can, So this is why I always do this time, Mostly because Libby would kill me if I didn't do it at this time, So she can be on my sister, So she can be on these, But it really does work out because we have a lot of people from Australia, So this is kind of a good time to do it, And to be able to, Oh, And Angela, You're coming in from Yorkshire, So, So that we can come in and we can, We can, Uh, Yeah, We can connect, And we can feel that sense, Again, Of community, Of, Of that we're, That we're not going through this alone, Oh, And Jenny, You're in Australia, Too, I wanted to see where in Australia, Yeah, It's, It's such a beautiful sense of, Uh, That we do, Again, That we, We really, Truly miss in our modern lives, Um, Maybe the last 40 years or so, It just seems like everyone's kind of all off, You know, And family all off, So all my family's in Australia, Maria, Not, You know, Maria's from England, Who I care for, She's in Ohio, I'm in Mexico, Uh, You know, Claire's in UK, In the UK, So we've got people all over, Um, And yeah, We're all very spread out, Yeah, Oh, And bless your heart, Claire, I'm so sorry about a non-verbal teen with autism, Your beautiful son, Yeah, It's a tough time, But there's also, There's, There's also, I'm sure, Just so many times where you just, You see your beautiful boy, And you're connecting on a different level, On, On a level we're not normally used to, Bless your heart, You know, Yeah, Oh, I'm glad to see that, Janine, No judgment, No fixing here, Yeah, And Bobby, You're saying, That was the hardest thing, Living in the States, Away, Saving or watching lives go with a purpose, A mission, But then the disconnect with the realities understood from this experience, And how precious life is that you wish you could instill that in people, So they don't make all these rash and unguided, Uneducated, Yeah, But, But it really, It starts with us, Like the wish to instill it in someone, It's just, It starts with us, And then you share, So you share as a teacher on Insight Timer, Right, So we share it, Right, But it's, Um, But being careful about trying to force it on other people, Yeah, Yeah, Oh, And Monica, So you were saying, You're having one of those days of saying you're not doing enough of your chores, So you did it, And then you came out to your favorite park, And to listen, Oh, I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad to hear that, And Melissa, Just saying you're sure if you went back, And you would have had more talks with him about your wonderful relationship, And what you valued and struggled with, Yeah, And those conversations, It sounds like, Melissa, Has your father passed, Or is he still, Is he still with us? Oh, He's passed, Okay, Yeah, So don't forget, You can still have those conversations with him. I have conversations with my mom, You know, Just, Um, And what would you say in this situation, Mommy, What would you say, What would you do, Or just even little things, I'll be doing something, Tightening, I'm like, Oh, You would want me to do it this way, Wouldn't you, Mommy, You would do it this way, And, Um, You know, And just kind of keeps that connection there. Oh, Bobby, You talk to your Nana all the time, Yeah, Yeah, Because they're still in our memories, Their form isn't here, Their form was an appearance, It came for 80 something, My mom, 85 years, She was a big form, Big force in nature, Had a lot of impact, Um, In the world, And, Uh, And it's just, You know, In those memories, Um, Yeah, And just in her, In fact, Yeah, Just how she'll kind of, Some, Something she would say would pop into my head, Or, Um, Just like, Oh, Mommy would have loved that, Or something like, Yeah, Like, She's, Her form is not here, But, Um, But she's still, She's still right here, She's still right here. Oh, And he comes as a red cardinal, Monica, We have a lot of red cardinal birds here, Maybe he comes to visit me down here in Mexico sometimes, But I feel like that, Too, Like something a little, Kind of a little flutter or something, And you're just like, Oh, Because it just kind of then sparks a little memory, Something's there, And, And, Uh, And it does, You do realize, Like, Man, I could never, She could never not be a part of me. You know, Yeah, I, I, Of course, It would be nice to still have her form here, But, Um, But she's still here just in so many, Just, You know, In my heart, In my thoughts, In my memories, Yeah, Yeah. Okay, I think, Uh, I think, Did I get to everyone's questions or comments? Was there anyone here that's in, In fact, Bobby, Because I, I think, Um, I think you might have just been offering comments to the community, I don't think. Oh, Sorry, Shira, You did have something here. Okay, Um, How to not let go of the practice when it's chronic. The path of the old ways in, In, Uh, I'm not sure, Oh, July 24, You're saying? Oh, I did answer you? Did I answer you? I didn't remember that. Okay, Not about that. Okay, Chronic. I think when I saw the word chronic, I thought chronic pain. Oh, 24-7. Thank you. Thanks. I was like, I'm not sure what that means. Okay. Okay, Good, Good. I'm glad we got that covered. Yeah. Oh, Hi, Anthony. Welcome. Welcome. Okay, So, Um, So this was our first, I mean, We did do a Dharma talk a couple weeks ago, Uh, Caregivers, Um, And I'm happy to do this again. So I do every Sunday. Of course, We get together for our Sunday Sangha. And as many of you, I'm seeing a lot of familiar faces from my Sunday Sangha. Uh, The message very much applies, You know, From caregiving to, Uh, It doesn't really change that, It doesn't really change, But there are a few kind of specific things that I think can be helpful for us to hear just maybe in this more specific setting where some of you that are in the caregiving role can maybe feel a little bit more, Uh, You know, Sharing a little bit more to really, Uh, Just kind of say what's going on, You know, Just to, To say what's going on and, And to, You know, Feel heard, To feel supported and and, Uh, And so maybe we'll do this again in a few weeks. I'll put on another one, Um, And, Uh, And we can, You know, Just be here to support each other. Or maybe I'll just do it as an extra Sangha class during the week. So we'll see, We'll see, Maybe I can put on another one. So, Um, But I do appreciate all of the great, Um, And for all of you sharing, Uh, Really, You know, It's, It's so helpful when each of us shares what's going on, Because I think each of us can see in every comment and question, Or just kind of the situation that's going on, We can see a little bit of our own situation in there. And I think that does help us to recognize that we're, We're not alone. We're not alone and that we can, We can, You know, We have the tools to be able to, Uh, See the story making and how it's making things worse and shifting our perceptive perception of, Uh, Of what's happening, Trying to fix the perception into something solid, Instead of just really being open to what's happening here. Whether we're caregiving, Just life in general, Right? The tides come in, The tides go out, Right? Everything's changing, Everything's changing. You are the space that everything is changing in. But the, You know, The little self wants to kind of hold on to everything and make it about me. And in making it about me, We, We don't find the joy. We don't find the connection. And we find the suffering. We find the suffering instead. So, Um, The more that we can recognize that and, And support each other. And I know that Pamela, And in fact, Pamela's not on the call. Pamela's the main reason we're doing this. Pamela from Ireland, Because we, She sends me messages offline. And a lot of, And several of you do here. And I do offer that because sometimes we just need to be able to also, You can't wait for a song and you want to vent to someone. I'm always happy to be on the other end of that. So, Uh, No problem. If you want to send me a message, If you want to reach out, You just need a little reminder, Just a little reminder, Because we can hear this here in this setting. And it can make sense and it can feel like, Yep, I can see how the story was making me grasp at it and trying to control it and, And, Uh, And causing me to feel more overwhelmed, More stressed, More anxious. Like we can see it, We can see it more easily in this situation because you're not caught up in it in the moment. But it doesn't take long before that story starts to build up again. And it's so believable. It's so believable. And so it's just good to have that reminder. Sometimes we just need to say it to someone else that gets back and, And, You know, Remind me that this is just a story, Right? To remind me to come in and feel. And that's what Sangha's for. This is what, You know, These live events are for, Is to come back in, To be reminded, To remember, Right? To remember, Yeah. Remember to be with what's here, With what's happening. Because it will always guide you. Presence will always be a better guide than the separate self. The separate self, The ego, The selfing, It will always guide, It will, It will keep you stuck in the same patterns. In fact, It will keep you stuck. It will keep you stuck. But coming in and being with what's here, And when you're here with what's here, What you're feeling, That's presence. You're directly experiencing what's here. You're not resisting what's here. You're not having aversion. You're here with what's here. That's presence. And then you're guided. The guidance is far more helpful than through that view of, Of separation, Of separation, Which is the separate self.