You Can't Solve The Problem As The Problem Q&A: Pt 2

This is recorded from a Live Event.

In this Sangha Q&A, we explore what happens when we try to replace one thought with another, why even trying to “be more present” can become another project for the separate self, and how mindfulness, self-compassion, and self-inquiry can help us see through the belief in a “me” at the center of experience.

Transcript

Personally, I wouldn't try and replace one thought with another thought. That's trying to solve the problem as the problem. I'll just give it a better thought, Right? Because we've seen what happens when the relief comes in, Right? Something, Finally, We get the unanswered text, Or we got the praise, We got whatever it is, We see what comes in, It's like, Oh, That relief. And now what's happened is, It's changed into a different thought, A different story, A different broadcast. Oh, Thank goodness, The me now that's nothing, She's not upset with and oh and I feel so much better and oh yeah I was just thinking about it too much but it's still a story about me. Eventually those conditions are going to change and the story is going to change again. And it's going to be something unpleasant. And there's going to be a belief that there's a me at the center. So personally, I wouldn't try to change one thought with another. I would just recognize, Ah, Thinking happening. Feel it in the body. Breathe, Right? Talk kindly to yourself. Okay, You can feel this Bob, Just one breath. And then, OK, Bob, Just this breath again. And you start to feel what's here. And you notice maybe there's a little contraction in the body. Maybe it's not a particularly intense story, Intense thought. But you start to notice there's a little bit more spaciousness. And as there's a little more spaciousness, A little bit more of a sense of ease, The surround sound has started to go. We're back just to a mono channel. Than you ask yourself. Who's the author of that thought? Who's the owner of that thought if you don't know what your next thought is going to be? And none of us knows. How can you be the author of it? But this is what's always happening. The selfing activity is always claiming it. It was my thought and now I need a different thought. And as long as you're doing that, You're still feeding the problem. So I would. I mean, You're asking the question here and. . . I would like, And first of all, I would say to you, You can't eliminate thought, Right? This is what so many people think when they come to spirituality, Buddhism, Meditation. Oh, We're here to eliminate thought. Good luck with that. That's more of the problem trying to solve the problem. I'm going to eliminate it. That's what I'm going to do now, Right? There's a belief that there's a me here that doesn't know what the next thought is going to be, But somehow now I'm going to eliminate all this. Another project for me to do, Right? A station me loves that. Me now with the project of no more thinking for me. That's going to solve the problem. It doesn't solve the problem. It can feel good for a little while. I mean, People can walk around for days, Sometimes weeks, Oh, I'm just thinking, You know, Good thoughts. And it can feel quite nice and quite pleasant. But it's still sustaining the belief that there's a little me at the center of experience, Interpreting everything that's happening as though it's happening to me. And eventually, That's going to start to get skewed again. It's a temporary solution, Which maybe can be helpful for a little bit in that moment. And if in that moment, Maybe you do change the thought in that moment. And then if it's enough to just give you that space that I would say then to come in and feel it again, Breathe, Be with it. And then who was it that needed to change the thought? The station still continues, And this is also what I've always been saying, But particularly using where we ended last week's talk. The station is going to continue. You can hear it, But you don't have to listen to it. If the station is continuing, If something's blaring, If something's blaring, We're hearing a story, And it's not about me. It's not so interesting, Right? Your story's, Oh, It's not about me. I'm not as interested in it. It's the moment we think it's about me that makes it so captivating. So the more that we keep investigating, Again, The reporting, The broadcast, Is giving the illusion that there is something that this is reporting back to. If I'm thinking about, I don't like this person, Why are they in my life? Who is it for? It's believing that there's someone I'm talking to about this. Right? And then I'm reporting back about how much I don't like this and reinforcing that there's something here. So the station. And it will continue on. It will. It's just you don't give it your attention. It's just, Oh yeah, That's what it does. That's what it does. Oh, It's always going to judge me. Oh, That's what it does. It's what it does, Right? It's what it does. You give a talk, Afterwards it's going to say, How do you think you did? And it's going to want to review everything. That's what it does. But if it's not me, If you've seen that it's not me, Or if again, You get a little caught up in it, No problem. But you follow those breadcrumbs of mindfulness and self-compassion and self-inquiry and you get to that same place every time where you can't find it. If you can, Let me know. I'd be curious to hear from anyone that's actually found it. Because there is nothing solid and separate at the center of experience. It's feelings arising and changing, Thoughts arising and changing. Emotions and rising and changing. Thinking happening, No thinker. Doing happening, No doer. Decisioning happening, No decision maker. All of this we think is the little me at the center of experience. It's doing all of this. So we should look and see. Is this simply an illusion? Remember, An illusion is a trick. It's a trick. That we have just taken to be that that's who I am. And so it gets insulted by, It takes any kind of. Sideways glance as an insult. It takes any, You took too long to answer that text, That's an insult. It takes. . . You know, Anything that's happening and makes it about me. And it's this sense of lack, This sense of, Oh, Needing things to be different. And then we say, But on one side, We're like, I want the wonder. I want the awe. I want to be present. Everyone says, Oh, I want to be present, As though it's something that we could get into. Get into the present moment. There's only this moment this is what's happening is what's happening and that becomes obvious what's happening is all that's happening And through no effort of my little me, Of me doing this, Thoughts arise on their own. I didn't have to put any effort into that. Seeing happening on its own, I didn't have to put any effort into that. Hearing happening on its own, I didn't have to put any effort into that. Right? It's all just happening. Trillions of conditions arising and we're all just arising and changing and changing and changing. And yet, We're so focused on this little solid independent me trying to find happiness. Well, At what point do we go, Man, I have been trying to solve for this little me my whole life. Every time I get one problem solved, Another one comes up over here, The whack-a-mole. And then I get that problem solved, And then the other problem comes back again. And then we're just constantly doing this and saying, No, But I want something different. So I need to change me. So the me, The separate self, The me needs to become something better. Right? Because now that's another project for me. Great. Fantastic. It loves it. Let's make another project out of me. I can improve myself. I can become more spiritual. I can meditate longer. I can go less time without thoughts, Right? I mean, It kind of sets up all these things, But it's still at the service of a me. Right? It's still the problem. And it's very good. Disguising itself. Where we fall for it again and again. If we keep trying to solve the problem as the problem you will be in a continuous your whole life will be filled with Tons of problems, Repeating the same problems that are, In fact, Not happening. I mean, This isn't to say that sometimes there's something that needs to be done, Sure, Or maybe an apology, Or maybe, Wow, They were a little upset in that text or something, Right? It doesn't mean that sometimes there's not something to be done, But not from this frightened little, Oh, My God, What does this mean about me? You know, Not from this fragile, Wounded little me. It's like, Oh, Yeah, I did say something. Oh, That was a little out of line. Not my best moment. OK. Okay. We don't have to carry it around for 10 years beating ourselves up about it. Everyone's made mistakes. We've all said things we wish we hadn't said. Everyone's done it. You would be unique to be the only person on the planet. We've all done things. But it wasn't we didn't, In fact, It wasn't a me that did things. It was the conditions arising. Conditions arising. When someone's rude to us, We use the example in the talk, The shop attendant or the shop assistant that ignores the person or is just rude or is just short with them. Right? We know there's probably something going on in their lives. They're probably stressing about their little me that has a problem. Something happened, They got some bad news, Or they're perceiving something is happening. Right? And they're suffering. And so that kind of bumps into us and then creates a bad mood here and it kind of goes on and it starts. Like a domino effect. And you're able to see like this is how all things are happening. It's not personal. It's not about me. It's just how things are happening. If I had their conditions, I would be the shop assistant and just had the bad news or perceiving something and then said something maybe a little unkind or ignored someone. It's not personal. And yeah, Bob, So yeah, You can, You know, Bringing your attention to the breath and your senses, That is happening. Right because so this is the difference it's from what's not happening to what is happening and how do we experience the world seeing hearing feeling um uh smelling tasting right This is how we experience the world. This is direct experience. So when you're breathing mindfully, There's a felt sense in the body. Your attention is with the breath. And it's a good thing to do because it starts to dial down the nervous system, Right, The nervous system. Uh yeah it starts to dial back some of the agitation in the nervous system so we breathe and we feel it and not push anything away like oh yeah that's what's here And then, Yeah, You hear some sounds and you look around. I mean, It truly is remarkable, The filter that we are wearing, Almost the tinted sunglasses. Or obscured sunglasses that that we don't really see the world, We don't really hear the world as seemingly we're moving through it. It's because we're so focused on me in here and what can I get out of this next moment, And I got to get over there, And because it's always over there, It's never here. And it's like taking those glasses off and going, Oh my gosh, Wow. Wow, This is actually a nice Dolby surround sound 3D experience. Wow, It's interesting. It's far more interesting than, Than whatever story the little me is telling me. Yeah okay, Let me go back here. Great advice there, Alice, Yeah. And hi, Mari, Good to see you. Yeah, And just, Bob, On the judging ourselves or others, I'll just kind of add something here about that. Like remember we just said you can't, You can't, You don't know what your next thought is going to be. None of us does. And so the judging thought arises. And it's just, You know, It happens. No judging for judging, Right? Because then we go, Oh. Can't believe I was judging. I was practicing self-compassion all morning, And now I'm judging. I'm such a bad practitioner. Look at how, Breaking news, I'm a bad practitioner. I wasn't very mindful. I wasn't very compassionate, Right? We can make a whole storyline out of that, Right? A whole afternoon broadcast, Right? And it's just to notice, Oh, There's the judging thought. It's not me. I didn't ask for it, But it's very much. You know, Kind of part of our conditioning, And particularly, I find, In our modern culture. But judging has a place, Right? We kind of need to judge a situation, And sometimes we do need to judge a person as safe or not. 99. 999% of the time. We're usually with a safe person. And yet we're still, The compulsion to judge and compare and all of that still kind of continues on. So do you notice it? You see someone and there's that thought, Oh, I don't like them. They're a bad person, Or whatever it is, That thought. You didn't ask for the thought. It just arose. And so it's just, Aha. You notice it? Come into the body, Feel, Breathe. To who did that judging thought belong? Oh, Hang on, My battery's about to drop. I didn't have my Mac with me. Okay, It's a good thing it gave me a little reminder there. Battery was about to go. Yeah, It's no problem that the judging thought arises, Or the comparing thought arises, Or the jealous thought arises, Or the thought of aversion or the chasing like that. Don't turn that into another problem because you're not going to be able to You're not controlling any of that. Just it arose, You notice that? To whom did that judging thought belong? Look and see. And then you just, Oh, It's just part of the broadcast. It loses its steam. When you see who did that judging thought belong now if it's something again if it's something intense or it's a thought of jealousy or you're really comparing and you're really feeling that sense of oh i'm missing out something's wrong with me right come in and feel it bring some kindness nurture it right? Like we definitely, I talk about that a lot, Using the RAIN acronym and really nurturing those feelings of of like really in jealousy that that old wound of there's not going to be enough left for me right or something you know i'm missing out like come in and nurture it and all sweetheart it's okay to feel this it's okay to feel this we're still coming into direct experience thinking still happening but in a way that's very compassionate and kind and allowing that old wound to be expressed right and then To whom did that jealousy belong? Wow, Just an old pattern. Yeah, There was a lot of jealousy in my younger years. I can see, Yeah, Just an old pattern. It's not me. Not me. So it's not a problem. AJ, I think we're getting closer to you. Hang on. And I'm glad you're feeling no shame over your typing mistakes, Bob. Yeah. And hi, Chris, Good to see you. Hi, Debbie. Oh, This is recorded, So this will be up on my teacher's page. Sandy, I hope Station Me isn't in stereo now. I hope it's coming down into that mono channel. So, Okay, AJ, Which of our senses is creating and engaging with this channel? I'm guessing there's hearing happening, Right, You're hearing? Yeah, Hearing happening. No hearer. Hearing happening. Seeing happening. Reading happening. The comments. No reader. And yeah, Mari, I like that saying about living in our heads rent free. And I think, Did I address that question then, AJ, About aren't the senses where the stories begin, Ending up in thought? It can, In case I didn't address it. There is a felt sense contraction in the body of separation. That can sometimes instigate the thoughts, And sometimes it's the thoughts that kind of reinforce the feeling in there. So, Yeah, I mean, There is, Sometimes it doesn't have to be like a real clear thought about me, But just that contraction in the body. And so, But I wouldn't get so caught up in, You know, Where are they beginning, Like, Where are they beginning like countless conditions back because something the eyes here fall on something and based on a past memory and past conditioning and experiences and what's happening now and how I'm feeling in this moment and how I slept last night and what were the dogs doing last night right I mean all of that having an effect of kind of how this is arising in this moment into what kind of a story right we're feeling really good and an old memory gets triggered and it just kind of comes and goes right we're feeling really tired, We're feeling a little bit stressed, And it kind of latches on a little bit more. So what's really is to keep that perspective of It's not like we can point to one thing. It's trillions of conditions. There is no one thing. In the universe, There isn't. There's just what's happening. That's it. Right? And I think, You know, We can, But what we can, Where we can use as a good helpful pointer. Is recognizing that wherever we're feeling that contraction, Whether it's being reinforced with the story and the contraction reinforcing the story, Kind of they're feeding off of each other, However that loop is arising, The contraction in the body is what's happening. That is what's happening. And so to come in and feel that in the body, Now you're here directly experiencing what is. It may not be pleasant, But it's what's happening. So Janine, And good to see you, Good morning. Is station me also feeling that you changed your plans for someone and them not acknowledging that you did? I felt this and then I was able to turn the thoughts into the change being an advantage for me. Is this then returning? Yeah, It's all station me. Yeah, Because it's interpreting and how is it's benefiting me and and and nothing wrong by the way, Again, Also, Let's just be clear, Nothing wrong with some plans changed and then a thought arise and go oh this actually works out really good this works out really good great okay don't go any further with it don't just yeah like yeah we're thinking is still happening remembering is still happening and being able to know that yeah, This works out a little better, I'm going to have a little more time, A little more space before I have to go see this next person now, Like yeah, That's nice, Yay. Yay, Sometimes it's just a little gratitude, Yay, Thanks for throwing the bone. The schedule was a little tight, Right? But don't make too much into it. Don't read too much into it. Just, It's just to appreciate that like, Yeah, Like we're so quick. I can just turn everything into this just super big story. And it's just, And so often too, Like good little things are happening. Yeah, Enjoy it. You know, You get all the green lights as you go through the, Down the road or. Or no traffic, Or all your flights are on time, Or just things are going really well, And it's like, Yay, That's nice, Fun, Enjoy it, The rides, Yeah, Ooh, This is pretty good, The ride's in a good spot, Right? But then there's going to be another time when, Oh my God, The flight's delayed again, And now another few hours, And now another few hours, And it's like, Okay, Well, That's what's happening also. We don't have to make some big story out of that either, Right? But it's like, Yes, Acknowledge the good things, And when it works out, It's great, It's fun, Yay, This is, Yay, Good, You know, Or enjoy the. . . The comfortable feeling, Enjoy the, Oh, I got the aisle seat instead of the middle seat, Yay, You know, And then, Oh, I got the middle seat and I don't have much room or it's like, Okay, Don't, It's to notice this kind of making this big problem out of everything because things are just always changing, Trillions of conditions, Sometimes pleasant conditions, Sometimes unpleasant, Mostly it's neither pleasant nor unpleasant, It's just mundane. We're doing the dishes, We're taking, Cleaning up the dog poo, You know, Vacuuming, We're paying the bills, We're doing some work, We're doing something. It's mostly just mundane conditions. But the more, Even in the mundane, Which is where I feel we tend to push back a lot on the mundane because we have this insane idea that life should only be fireworks and blissful feelings and people only being kind to me and praising me, Right? This is what the me at the center of experience believes enlightenment is. It's just this unbelievable you know, Amazing trip, Right? And that's not reality. That's not reality. It's changing. And a lot of the mundane moments where nothing's, You know, It's neither pleasant or unpleasant, Just kind of 60, 70% of our experience just kind of going about doing things. The less caught up you are in it, The less you're pushing back on it and thinking, No, My life is not as exciting as someone else's, So stay off social media for sure. You know, So the less that we're kind of comparing it or thinking about it or just interpreting anything about it at all, The less that we're doing that, The more open we are to what's happening. And again, Just doing the dishes, It's no problem, Right? There's a sense of spaciousness, There's a sense of openness inside. But the contraction is, Oh, I shouldn't have to do this, And everyone else's life is so much more exciting. I mean, Seriously, 60%. 60-70% of our experience is just mundane moments that we tend to be pushing back on because we have this ridiculous idea of what we think life is supposed to be like. Let's get with the program. Life is pleasant and unpleasant. We get praise and criticism, Gain and loss, Pleasure and pain. This is the way it is right and it's just you know sometimes the waves are a little choppy and sometimes the sea's you know very pleasant sometimes it's just a nice little ride down the wave and it's like yeah just be here for all of it because it's all happening It's all just happening. You can add a layer of commentary on top of it, Not helping. Not helping. Or just be here. Yeah, And GN, The laughing is a good sign because it's kind of, It's pretty funny. We're pretty, I mean, You just, You do, You laugh. In fact, That's also, Bob, Just to your point back there too, A lot of this. And even aging, Like, You know, Sometimes we're trying to get to. We're trying to dissect this, And if I can just get to the exact thing, And I can figure this out, And if I can know this out, And by the way, Again, All that's from the, From the view of the me, If I can just understand this, If I can just know this, Is just see the problem. See how the problem keeps getting created. See what you're not and it is funny like the judging thought comes along and there's almost oh my god there it is again. There it is! Wow! Right? It's not a problem anymore. It's not a problem. You know, There is definitely more laughter. Definitely more laughter. And yes, Kathy, Exactly. Before enlightenment, Chop wood, Carry water. After enlightenment, Chop wood, Carry water. But not without this burden, Right? So after, It's almost like you, But you can say there's this. This image almost of putting down this giant sack of rocks with awakening because you realize oh that wasn't all this interpreting and analyzing and anticipating and commenting it wasn't adding to my experience in fact it was taking away It was taking my attention away from what actually is happening, The mystery of what is happening. And so Kathy, You're saying that you feel the sensations first in the body and then the thoughts interpret the sensations as bad or this shouldn't be happening. And if you, Yeah, So you're noticing. Great. More curiosity about it. Yeah. I mean, It really, It makes a difference, That curiosity, Like what is happening? Because the feelings, Like the thinking and the feelings, And again, I mean, They just, It's so fast, Right? It just happens. And so the more that we, When there's a sense of curiosity about the feelings, Because initially it's just this, Oh, I don't feel good. Something feels tight. Something feels constricted. It's just, Oh, It doesn't feel good. But when you come in, It's like, Well, Where doesn't it feel good? And now you're really looking. You're like, Oh, Actually, I can feel there's kind of a band along my neck there. Yeah is that is it throbbing is it static is it dull is it sharp right and as you're really looking at it and you're trying to really notice what's happening there and then you breathe and you just stay with it you notice it starts to kind of move a little bit. Shift just a little bit, Just a little bit, Right? And you can maybe then move down to your chest. And what's happening in there? Oh, This feels like, Again, Maybe a big band across here, Or there's kind of like a big heavy ball in my abdomen. So you're like, Oh, Actually, I'm going to go there. It feels like just a big bowling ball. OK. How big is it? What size is it? Where can I find the edge of it? How intense is it on a scale of 1 to 10, Right? And I find that a really good question. And inevitably, When I'm working, Doing this practice with someone, And then tell me on a scale of 1 to 10, How painful is this or how intense is this? It's almost always, After a couple minutes of doing this, A 2, Maybe a 1, Sometimes a 3. And it's like, OK, Can you bear this? Yeah, This is bearable. And then that's fine. Yeah so just even noticing that oh the sensation is bad that's just oh it's just kind of trying to layer on it mindfulness is not is about not judging so don't judge for the judging you didn't ask for the judging thought it's just going to come in another back door so just you notice the judging Oh, Okay, But now let's just explore it a little bit more. And Hi, Elise, Good to see you. And Alice, I thought that was the Buddha's quote, But you're saying a nase nin? We don't see things as we are, We see them as we are. Absolutely. You're in a great mood. Everything's going well. You're newly in love. Think of the outlook everyone has. Oh, My God, I wish everyone were happy. I want everyone to be happy and get what they want, Right? There's, Oh, There's this, I have everything I want. I wish everyone else to be this happy, Right? And then we've just been dumped or we've lost our job or we've just gotten criticized by something. We got a bad job review and it's like, I don't want anyone to be happy. I'm not happy. I don't want anyone to be happy. Everything's bad. Is bad, Right? It completely shifts our experience, Yeah. Well, Bob, I'm glad to know this was helpful. And I'm guessing you're leaving now also. We're probably missing you in a moment. And thank you, Alice, For helping my Inc. Thank you. So Filippa. Oh, What happened here? You're saying, Once you have the view, Although the delusory perceptions of samsara may arise in your mind, You will be like the sky. When a rainbow appears in front of it, It is not particularly flattered. And when the clouds appear, It is not particularly disappointed either. There is a deep sense of contentment. Yeah. You chuckle from inside as you see the facade of samsara and nirvana. Yeah. The view will keep you constantly amused, Yeah. Yeah, So from Sogiel Rinpoche, Yeah. It is really astonishing. How much is missed. Because we're so listening to the broadcast. And it's all exactly like samsara, Nirvana. You're here in the mystery one moment. The mystery is unfolding. There's wonder. There's awe. The next moment, There's a judging thought. No problem, That's what's arising, That's what's happening. There's really not a big distinction between it. There was a feeling of being awakened in one moment, Right? No believing in the separate self. And then a moment later, There's a believing in it again. That's all the absolute, By the way. That is still all the absolute. You know, It is just a. Not get caught up in it, To not keep layering or to see how the interpreting of experience keeps getting layered on. And pointing to a me at the center. Right, Because the interpreting is still going to happen. But the more that you question it, The more that you see there is no solid me at the center. It's no longer, It doesn't stick. Oh, That's actually interesting, Kathy. Sorry, Alice. Yeah, That, You know, Yeah, Where we judge ourselves. Oh, I ate that. I shouldn't have eaten that, Right? Like, Okay, You did. You did, Now there's some discomfort. Doesn't mean that there can't also be a helpful thought. Remember we, And to say this too, We're not saying that thinking is all bad. Sometimes the thinking is helpful. And we do need to simulate a little bit of the day or we need to kind of have a little bit of that reflection of, Yeah, Actually this didn't feel so good. You know, Having this like, Yeah, Okay, No problem. Yeah, No problem. Like, Yeah, You know what, Maybe next time I won't. But not from the standpoint of, I'm a bad person and I'm now going to try and make sure this never happens again because we're so busy trying to strangle each moment and shape it into something that we never really see what's happening. And as long as we're still doing that, In fact, We tend to reach for the ice cream a lot more when we're trying to control, When we're trying to control. And I think next week we're going to talk about Station Me. And is this the Nancy that texted me earlier this week? Nancy, Are you still on? Because Nancy had texted me about, You know, But who am I? Oh, It is good. But who would I be without the self, Right? Who's making all the decisions? Where would all my motivation go? So I think we're going to, In part three of Station Me next week, We're going to talk about that. But thinking's still happening, And remembering, And planning, And decisioning, And yeah, All of these things are still happening. Doing. It's just there is no doer at the center. Remember this whole thing, The whole. What's happening on a spiritual path? When there really is no path but what's happening here is that we have misperceived. Um We've misperceived who we are. We're so believing in the illusion of a separate solid me. And and there's this interpretation of all of this experience coming into this separate solid me and believing that this is this is what's all of my personality it's what what's driving everything it's what's making all of the decisions as well so therefore if it's make if i'm the one making all the decisions i'm the one that can have the regret right if i'm the one making all the decisions i can hate that person because they because it's personal right it's not just conditions it's not showing how things are arising and changing, But it is simply an illusion. A misperception. That has become so deeply ingrained within us. That in fact it's who we are. I mean, We will defend it to no end. Because it keeps coming up, But who would you be? Who would you be? Free. You'd be free. You'd be liberated. You wouldn't lose your ability to think. You wouldn't be lose your moral compass. Right? And in fact, If anything, I would say it's much more sound. We give it too much credit. We give it way too much credit. So we're going to get much more into that next Sunday. Yeah. Yeah, And so just noticing that too, Kathy. Yeah, Just noticing that. Yeah, Like, OK, We did something a little bit too much. I'm kind of in that boat right now, Too. I'm trying to change up a little bit of my exercise to help my knee and to help some other health things. And yeah, We can overdo things a little bit. Like, OK, It's what happened. Right? Not to judge yet. Yeah. And, And, Uh, Nancy, Where you're saying, What about the concept of my soul? Well, You're saying a concept. Everything that we're talking about here, Everything. Like we talk about it as concepts. But the. What the concepts are pointing to, We can never know directly. So the absolute. It's, If we're looking through, Like, You know, Even like, And I'll kind of frame this kind of a funny way maybe, Like we kind of think like, Oh, I'm going to be present. I'm going to be more present. I'm going to be more here. I'm going to have more wonder. I'm gonna have more awe. There's no me in any of that. The wonder and the awe, There's no me. There's no me. It's just. Ah, Ah, Look at all this. Every moment fresh, Different, Changing. And the sky and the landscape doing this beautiful artistry for us, Giving us these beautiful views that we barely give a second thought to because we're so concerned about me being present, Me having the wonder and the awe. You're not here for any of it. And yet you don't fall apart. We give the separate me. We give it too much credit. And because it's been taking all the credit. It takes the credit for all my good decisions. It takes the credit for all my bad decisions, So it can beat me up about that. And it can feel full of itself for all the good decisions. Uh you know it'll take it can take credit for the good thoughts oh something arose and you you're walking into the store and you and you see someone else and there's just a pause for a moment you open the door for them like yeah conditions arose kindness arising nice yay and then in comes the separate self i'm such a kind person It wasn't there for the act. It comes in afterwards and takes credit for it. And then later, When we're not feeling as kind and generous, And then it goes, You're not a kind person, You know that? I thought you were. Now you're a bad person. Now you're a selfish person. And now let's kind of be miserable about that for a little while. Until something changes again, It goes, No, No, No, Now you're good again. No, You're good again. Okay, You did something nice, You're good again. And it's just like, So. You know, It's psychotic, It's just, And we keep going, Oh, I'm a good person, Oh, I'm a bad person, I'm a kind person, No, I'm a selfish person, I'm a smart person, I'm an idiot. Right? And we're just kind of a, What am I now? What am I now? Tell me. Right? And it's like. The focus. Stop the focus on you. But you don't do that. Bye. Trying to become something different. This is simply just, There's this filter in front of what's here. That's all it is. A misdirection, A kind of premonition. Believing there's something happening over here that has all of our attention. And that we believe is who we are. And in seeing that's not who we are. The whole illusion falls away. And wow! Wow. Life is happening. Sometimes someone's being really kind to us. Yay, That's nice. Sometimes someone's not. Maybe I did something, Maybe I didn't. And maybe there's something to do, Maybe there isn't. But it's just not from a place of. . . I can't breathe now because I think something's in trouble. Like we live, Most of us, Many of us, Not everyone, But most of us live. Barry. We have good conditions. We have inside plumbing. I mean, A hundred years ago, I can remember my uncle's house in Australia. Libby, You remember this Uncle David's house in Como. Hidden out house. And we would have been there 50 years ago at an outhouse. We have indoor plumbing. Electricity. We have food in the fridge. We have. You know, Some time to really appreciate what's here. We have so much. We have all these different flavors of ice cream. And croissants and. . . You know, All of these, You know, Mostly fairly good conditions. We're not, You know, We don't have to be multi-millionaires, But we have pretty good conditions. And yet most of the time we feel as though we're this little frightened squirrel. And it's just about, You know, It's like, Oh, Oh, Am I safe yet? Am I safe yet? And it's like, If you're safe now. If you're safe now. And you can't feel the safety. No amount of money. Is going to make you feel more safe. No amount of security, No amount of followers, No amount of praise. Is going to make you feel more safe. If you are safe in this moment, And you can't feel that. Nothing the head is going to tell you. Is ever going to deliver it for you. I mean, That's a real mind job that it's doing on us. That we can be perfectly safe. That everything's okay, We have friends, We have, Yeah, As you're saying, Gail, I think you put it, We have insight timer, We have ice cream, Like we can have all these things and these pretty good conditions and yet still want for more. How many more flavors of ice cream do we need? Are we just waiting for the enlightenment flavor? And then we'll all go run and buy it and we'll stuff our faces and then go, Now I feel sick. That didn't bring me enlightenment at all. Now I just have, Now I just have, You know, Now I have a stomachache. Because it wasn't out there. This is the waking up. It's not waking up to become something, To be more improved, To be perfect, To always have the perfect words come out of your mouth to never make a mistake. It's the seeing that what you have taken yourself to be your whole life is simply an illusion. It's a problem on top of a problem on top of a problem, A never-ending problem to be solved. And a me, It sees it as me as the center experience. This is all happening to me. What a messed up view because none of this is happening to me. And this isn't just, You know, Me saying this, The Buddha saying this, Neuroscientists saying this, Physicists saying this, Right? They're all saying this. Everything is arising, Interdependent, Interconnected, And changing moment by moment by moment. Appearing. And gone. This glass of water, Right? Okay, Seemingly real right now, Holding water. I throw it against the window. Where's the glass? Gone. Was it ever real? It was just conditions appearing and arising and changing. Each of us arising, Interdependent, Interconnected. No one at the center of experience. I think I'll have a sip of water. Oh, You're saying the squirrels aren't frightened, Filippa? I always think they look around like, They kind of look around all frightened. It's just my perception. And yeah, Jian, Absolutely. You can be the hero in the morning. And a villain in the afternoon, Or just, Yeah, Eight o'clock you can be the hero, 8. 05 you can be the villain, You know, And that's the breaking news, Yeah. It's always breaking, Yeah. I bet there will be a little enlightenment gelato. I bet there will. Yeah, Yeah. Okay, Did I get to everyone's question? Did I miss anyone? Sometimes I do miss something. Oh, Sorry, Nancy, I did miss yours here where you said. So without our separate identities, In a way, We are one. Um, I'm kind of just always hesitant to say that. As you know, Nancy, And I know you've been listening to my talks for a while, I don't teach in the affirmative. I teach from a negation. I think the affirmative path, At least for me, Is, Is is is too easily hijacked by the separate me it's just too easily taken over um oh i i'm one with everything i'm present i am i'm awareness i'm consciousness right it's just the me taking something on and so i i would i would just say like just hang on what did you say in the beginning so without our separate identities now there is this isn't to say that Nancy isn't having a unique experience, Kind of based on all of your trillions and conditions, A little different from Meredith, From Philippa, From Abigail, From Sandy, Right, That there is, Of course, A unique viewpoint, Right? But you are arising, What we see as Nancy arising is trillions and trillions and trillions of conditions coming together. And then and you're changing and you're changing and you're changing and this is for all of us eventually there will be you know nothing you know the appearance will Be gone. So it's just changing moment by moment by moment. Like, I mean, We give so much credit to the me that's making all this happen. I mean, Just think if the internet went down right now, All of a sudden it's over. I didn't, Well, That we might. Or something happens, I do get a stomach ache, And all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, I got to go. You know, Didn't plan for it, Something happens, All of a sudden change of plans. Maybe you didn't ask, Maybe Nancy you weren't on this call for some reason and I'm not talking about this right now because you weren't here asking this question or putting that comment in there. Right? Look at how interconnected we are. So yes, There is a, Each of us is having, There is a unique experience happening here. But it's a rising trillions of conditions, Right? Again, Even if I just take the glass, Like this glass didn't just spontaneously appear, Right? It's had to have someone make it, Right? There was a person that came along, Wanted to make it, And the materials and the hot blower and put the. . . A little imprint on it and did all these things. And so you could say, Well, There's no center to the experience of the glass, Right? There's no, Even from the glass's side, It's like, It doesn't say it's a glass. We say it's a glass. It's convenient. But it's the same with us, Like we arose through, You know, Having a unique, You know, Our parents' DNA combining. And through different foods that our mother was eating and different conditions, Their stress and where they were living at the time and what the conditions were, Was there a war going on, Was it peaceful? All of those things affecting how we developed in the womb and then when we came out. Every condition of how nurtured we were and how our parents were and whether we had siblings and whether we were living in peaceful conditions or stressful conditions in a wealthy household, In a poor household, You know, Living in hot conditions, Living in cold conditions, What kind of media we were exposed to, What type of schools we went to, What type of experiences we had, What type of experiences we didn't have. All of these things kind of going in and shaping us. Right? And this continues to this day. Right now, Nancy? Meredith being shaped. Arising, You're part of this. Philippa, Simon, Mari, Sandy, All a part of this. Right? The Dharma talk. All of us. And also the Dharma talk coming from countless teachers from here. I always give the most credit, I think, To Paul Hederman. There's such a flavor of his teachings that have really been coming through the teachings here for the last few years now, At least four years, Right? Because he's been such an instrumental influence on helping really kind of see what it is that's happening. Buddhism, All of the teachers before that, Jack Kornfield and Tara Brach and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and, You know, Just, You know, Rabina Korten. Thich Nhat Hanh. I'm forgetting a million people right now. But all of them also. Right and as we're connecting and like I think Alice you had shared what the other teacher said the next thing like we're all just you know we're all kind of this. What's arising here is just trillions of conditions of previous conditions really having an influence and what's arising here and then just changing and changing and changing. Oh, Alice, Will you put that in there for me in the comments section? He is wonderful, Paul Hederman, Wonderful. Has a very, Very abrupt style. He's not everyone's style. But he has been, Well, In fact, In one of his teachers, He would say Ramana Maharshi, Which I was very much exposed to his teachings about 17 years ago. And I really found that, In fact, I find what really gets bridged here a lot, Which you might have noticed, Is a lot of Buddhism and non-duality. So my path was very much, Is very much a Buddhist path but non-duality came in around 2009 and through just from No planning. I was on a retreat in India. I had no idea they were going to bring in these teachings and it was like it kind of like everything I had everything I was trying to understand about Buddhism kind of just blew it out in a way that was like oh my god It's. . . It the non duality really being a very helpful kind of what I find is like it kind of takes you that last like 20 yards like here you go it passes the ball it's like And so Simon, God is another concept. God is another concept. If you want to call the absolute God, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I wouldn't have a problem. And yeah, And non-duality in the Zen tradition is very much a part of, Much more in the Zen and the Chan tradition, Yeah, Of Buddhism, Yeah. Okay. Yeah, And Kathy, Just like you're saying, We're all connecting here. I'm in, You know, Many of you are here now, And I'm seeing in the UK, And Abigail, You're in San Diego, Alice, You're in Santa Barbara, Marion, You're in Texas. You know, There's a lot. Oh yeah, In fact, In the Dzogchen, Yeah, There's more of it in the Dzogchen, Yeah. And I mean, Ultimately, Sorry, Felipe, But just to say, Ultimately, Of course, It is all pointing to non-duality. All of it is. But there's a. . . A more directness that I would say that comes from Buddhism when it's more in the Dzogchen or the Chan or Zen Buddhist traditions. I find buddhism really explains the predicament very very well and i think that was what resonated so much with me i mean this was 27 years ago when i first started meditating when i first started listening to this and reading about it and and it's so described the predicament and it was so such a relief to realize like oh it's not just me this is everyone's this is happening to everyone and and i did find it to be very and do find the teachings to be very, Very helpful, But for non-duality has. . . Picked up something at least here and more in the Advaita tradition of like Ramana Maharshi where it's just is kind of because it just cuts to the chase with self-inquiry. To whom do these thoughts belong? Oh, Right, To whom do these feelings belong? So it really, It just kind of really cut to the chase. Now, I couldn't have heard that in 1999. I would have been like, What are you talking about? Feelings belong to me, Right? I'm the feeler of my feelings, Right? Yeah, It's just been a really, You know, The way that the path has unfolded has been, What's arisen has been there when it's needed to be, And it's just been very illuminating. Would have never imagined that this was the way things were going to turn out, Never would have thought this in a million years, And what I even thought it was even all that time ago. It's like, Wow, It's never what you think it is. What you think this is, Is not it. So don't think about it. Don't think about the concepts. Try to let go of the concepts. They can be problematic. I mean, If you don't find them problematic, No problem, But they can be. They tend to give us something to grasp onto and we don't want to be grasping onto anything. I really have found that the best method, At least for so many, You know, For myself and for a lot of people, Not everyone, Is to see what you're not. See what you're not, Because what is is already is. It will be revealed. It's not a destination. It's not somewhere you need to get to.