48. Eternal Optimism: Moving Beyond Self-Defeating Thoughts & Behavior

In this episode of Spiritually Hungry, Monica and Michael delve into pessimism as a form of self-sabotage and how it actually doesn’t come from us but, rather, from what the kabbalists call the ‘negative inclination,’ or ego. Listen as they discuss ways in which to become more aware of our true essence so that we can constantly diminish our self-destructive thoughts and actions and, thereby, set ourselves up for lasting fulfillment. || Further readings: Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

Transcript

What you're saying is that the self that you're sabotaging that perhaps you'll never reveal or recognize is the truest self.

It's the highest,

Most elevated state of your being.

Right.

And I would even say that the foundation for all the other self-sabotage that we do that is more known and more obvious is the fact that we have not decided to live from the truest part of me,

My soul,

My essence.

And often people are like,

Well,

I don't know what I came to this world to do.

And they really struggle with finding what they're passionate about.

But the key here is just stop focusing on the little minutia of things.

That's such a small way to live a life.

For all the things that we do from great to small,

What is the driving force?

Is it the elevated self or the soul?

Or is it all the other possible drivers?

Well,

Then you're self-sabotaging all the time and you're not even aware of it because you're not living your life.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast episode 48.

We are going to talk about a big topic known as self-sabotage.

And it's something we all do except for maybe Michael.

And I think most of us don't want to really admit the extent of which we do it or we're not really aware of how or when we do it.

So it's basically what makes us do things we know we don't really want to do or things that we know aren't really good for us.

Often there's a battle that occurs in our heads,

The struggle between I won't and I shouldn't or I'm in charge and I can't control this.

So really why can't we stop something even when we know better?

And there are four ways we self-sabotage in my opinion.

We're not going to get to all of them today.

So this is likely going to be a two-parter podcast.

But I want to share a story with you that illustrates that there are two ways to look at life because that's going to introduce the first way we self-sabotage.

Would you like to hear my story,

Michael?

I would love to hear your story.

Great.

Then I will tell it to you.

The father,

It's a story of a father and his newborn.

He's looking down into the crib at his sleeping newborn daughter,

Just home from the hospital.

His heart is overflowing with awe and gratitude for the beauty of her perfection.

The baby opens her eyes and stares straight up.

The father calls her name,

Expecting that she'll turn her head and look at him.

Her eyes don't move.

He picks up a furry little toy attached to the rail of the bassinet and shakes it,

Ringing the bell it contains.

The baby's eyes don't move.

His heart has begun to beat rapidly.

He finds his wife in the bedroom and tells her what's just happened.

She doesn't seem to respond at all to the noise.

He says it's as if she cannot hear.

I'm sure she's all right,

The wife says,

Pulling her dressing gown around her.

Together they go into the nursery.

She calls the baby's name,

Jingles the bell and claps her hands.

And then she picks up the baby who immediately perks up,

Wiggling and cooing.

My God,

The father says,

She's deaf.

No,

She's not,

The mother says.

I mean,

It's too soon to say anything like that.

Look,

She's brand new.

Her eyes don't even focus yet.

But there wasn't even the slightest movement,

Even when you clapped as hard as you could.

The mother takes a book from the shelf.

Let's read what it says in the baby book.

She looks up,

Hearing and reads out loud.

Don't be alarmed if your newborn fails to startle at loud noises or fails to orient towards sound.

The startle reflex and attention to sound often take some time to develop.

I never knew that actually,

To be honest.

Your pediatrician can test your child's hearing neurologically.

There the mother says,

Doesn't that make you feel much better?

Not much,

The father says.

It doesn't even mention the other possibility that the baby is deaf.

All I know is that my baby doesn't hear a thing.

I've got the worst feeling about this.

Maybe it's because my grandfather's deaf.

If that beautiful baby's deaf and it's my fault,

I'll never forgive myself.

Hey,

Wait a minute,

Says the wife.

You're going off the deep end.

We'll call the pediatrician first thing Monday.

And in the meantime,

Cheer up.

Here,

Hold the baby while I fix the blanket.

It's all pulled out.

The father takes the baby but gives her back to his wife as soon as he can.

All weekend,

He finds himself unable to open his briefcase and prepare for next week's work.

He follows his wife around the house,

Ruminating about the baby's hearing and about the way the deafness would ruin her life.

He imagines only the worst,

No hearing,

No development of language.

His beautiful child cut off from the social world,

Locked in soundness isolation.

By Sunday night,

He's sunk into a deep despair.

The mother leaves a message with the pediatrician's answering machine asking for an early appointment Monday.

She spends the weekend doing her exercises,

Reading,

And trying to calm her husband.

The pediatrician's tests are reassuring,

But the father's spirits remain low.

Nan told a week later when she shows her first startle to the backfire of a passing truck does he begin to recover and enjoy his new daughter again.

I want our listeners to take a moment and just ask themselves this question.

Do you lean more towards being a pessimistic person or an optimistic person and how you approach things in your life?

In case you guys haven't figured out,

The first way we self-sabotage is having a pessimistic outlook on life.

We all do this to ourselves in one form or another.

Everything we plan doesn't go as we want it or something happens that's beyond our control or we make one small mistake or poor choice and everything becomes black.

I planned on having one slice of cake and I had half of the cake or one piece of pizza.

I had the entire pie.

Which one is the good one which was the bad?

Ha,

Ha,

Ha.

The four ways we self-sabotage,

And again,

Then we're going to break down this first one.

The first is pessimism.

The second is helplessness.

The third is judgment and negative speech because they overlap.

Self-judgment or any judgment?

Well,

If you judge others,

You're certainly judging yourself.

They're not separate.

And perfectionism.

I'm sure most know,

All know,

Pessimists,

They tend to believe bad events will last a long time.

That it'll undermine everything they do,

Not just that one specific thing that's happening.

Bad events are their fault.

Optimists think about misfortune in an opposite way.

They believe defeat is temporary.

It's not their fault and the causes are confined to this one case.

Experiments are unfazed by defeat.

Confronted by a bad situation,

They perceive it as a challenge and try harder.

So the point is here,

Everything begins with a thought and a thought can change because there's consequences to how we see life and what we think.

And so you're saying that a pessimist is self-sabotaging simply by being a pessimist.

Yes,

Because- But then it probably also leads to other things,

Right?

Correct.

Other self-sabotaging behavior.

One of the core elements that begins self-sabotaging as a person has a pessimistic view on life and on certain things.

And on experiences and things that happen to them because then that becomes your belief system.

That becomes the way you view life and how you see life is how you experience it,

Right?

The Zohar actually says,

We've talked about the Zohar a lot,

The main Kabbalistic text.

It says,

Come and behold,

The lower world is always ready to receive and is called a precious stone.

The upper world gives it according to its state and by its state,

It's referring to our consciousness.

If its state is of shiny countenance from below,

The same manner is shown from above.

But if it's in sadness,

It's correspondingly given judgment.

So sadness,

Pessimism,

Anything that has a negative kind of feeling to it.

So the Zohar is teaching us that a person is happy or sad,

Optimistic or pessimistic.

That's the type of energy we manifest in our lives.

That we continue to draw.

Correct.

And the same idea is expressed by the great Kabbalists,

The Baal Shem Tov,

Who was a Virgo also like myself.

He said,

We think we're sad because things don't go our way,

But in reality,

Things don't go our way because we're sad.

So I can't,

I mean,

We all think like,

Oh,

That person has like a great outlook and they're just,

You know,

They have a higher set point for happiness,

But in fact,

It's really a choice on how you want to view your life.

And- Well,

Again,

I do think,

Right,

Especially when we spoke,

You know,

We spoke about this sometimes,

That we believe that in astrological science and we also believe in what we call Tikkun,

Which is different corrections and work that one brings from previous lifetime.

So the reality of course is that different people are born with different natures,

Right?

There are people- And perhaps even opportunities.

Of course opportunities,

But every person is not equally born with a natural disposition towards either pessimism or optimism.

Every person is actually born different and it's not coincidental,

But it is different.

I think it's important- And we all have different set points.

I've said this before yours,

Very obvious to me is higher naturally your point of happiness than mine.

Being around you though,

For all these years,

I've chosen to adopt more that kind of style.

So it is something that you can change.

And I'm definitely happier than I was the first 17 years of my life of not having you in it and not just because you're my partner,

But because that is your outlook.

And when you're around that environment,

Of course,

If you choose to learn from it and mimic it,

Then that's what you'll do.

Which leads me I think to,

Whenever we speak,

I think it's important to understand both the way things are experienced in our lives,

But also the spiritual background or reason for it.

So it's interesting,

This topic of self-sabotage,

It's one that on one level was relatively new to me.

I think growing up,

Even in the first number of years in our marriage,

It would be strange to me for somebody,

Which of course science,

Of course in psychology tells us very clearly,

There are people who will actively do things that are detrimental and sometimes conscious and often unconscious.

So even when we were talking about preparing for this podcast,

It's an idea that was,

I would say relatively new on one level.

But actually as I was preparing for this podcast and thinking about this,

It actually is almost foundational to everything I've said in my entire life.

And that is that- You didn't just put it in this frame,

I suppose.

Exactly.

Because I think it's really important to say,

Because I think it will help both frame it properly but more importantly give us greater tools to be able to extricate ourselves from actions and behaviors that are self-sabotaging.

I feel like the first couple of years of our marriage,

I was saying a lot of things and you're like,

What?

But then I think that it's clearer now that it was a different way of viewing the same truth.

Sometimes,

Yeah.

But sometimes it was brand new.

And sometimes you just learned something new.

Exactly.

You've taught me many new things.

So the foundational spiritual teaching is this,

That every one of us has two parts.

We often refer to it as the soul and the body,

Or we often refer to it as the desire to receive or the ego,

The desire to receive for the self alone or the ego and what we call the desire to share.

One of those,

Which we often refer to as the soul,

The desire to share,

That is and always is pure and perfect.

Every single one of us,

Every single one of our listeners,

Our essence is pure and perfect.

But in order to allow us to earn our blessings,

Our growth,

Our light,

As we are born,

We are almost injected with or invested with this other part.

Sometimes referred to again as the body,

The ego,

The desire to receive for the self alone.

It's the place from which all negative thoughts come about ourselves,

About our situation.

So I think it's really important.

I know that for myself and often when I speak to people that when we talk about self-sabotage on all levels,

On a spiritual level,

On a physical level,

Its root is not us.

Its root is this other force that co-exists with us to the degree that we allow it.

And it is the source of all the bad ideas that we have.

It actually cuts us off from us.

Yes,

Yes.

It actually builds.

.

.

It does not allow us to access our truth,

Our soul,

Our essence.

I like how you put all of our bad ideas.

Yeah.

And all the self-sabotaging ideas,

That's where they come from.

And that's why literally it's called in the ancient text the negative inclination.

Any negative inclination we have to think bad about ourselves,

To be pessimistic,

To look at everything as if it's the worst thing and will always be like that,

All that,

I think it's so important to know it's not coming from us.

That is not who you are.

That is not who I am.

But it is a force that is with us for the moment we're born,

For the rest of our lives.

And learning to counteract it,

Learning to not fault it is the work of life.

That is the spiritual practice.

Exactly.

It's so interesting as you're saying that because it happens to me sometimes where I'll get into a space where things,

They look darker,

But I think more accurately,

I feel like a version of myself from long,

Long ago.

And so it comes to visit once in a while and it's usually triggered by something that's happened maybe that was traumatic or that was familiar from trauma earlier in my life.

But when it comes to visit,

This is what's interesting.

That's why when you're speaking,

I thought of this because I did like every day I wake up dedicating my life to hopefully being better and changing.

And that's where I wake up with that intention and throughout the day check in with myself.

So when it comes back,

It's almost like a foreign visitor,

An unwanted one by the way.

And so I don't take it seriously.

I don't give it a lot of time.

I don't.

I mean,

Yes.

Okay.

Fair enough.

But I feel like I'm able to say,

Okay,

You can tag along for a little bit of the day and then you're leaving.

And I know it's not real and I think that's the point.

I never take it seriously.

But it's still something that,

And I think that's the practice of spirituality.

Exactly.

And that's what leads me to this understanding is that there is a lot of- You never are like that though.

It's a little bit annoying.

What?

You don't have that.

No,

We all do.

It's not true.

It's not a worry,

And hopefully it's fewer things than most,

But of course there are things that are the cause of worry or some pessimism or of course.

But the work of life is how do you diminish those or ultimately have them maybe not even exist in our lives.

But I think the first step,

The first step has to be clarity on the fact that I and you and every one of our listeners has this beautiful,

Perfect part.

And all the self-sabotaging ideas,

All the actions that follow in that way are not coming from us.

And the reason that's so important is because when you read the science on self-sabotage,

One of the root causes is that you can call it low self-esteem or a thought that I don't deserve.

That's the work of what you can call the negative inclination.

That is not you.

If you are connected to you,

Which you can be at any given moment,

It's a decision in our mind,

You are perfect,

You are powerful,

You are strong,

You have no negative desires,

You have no possibility of doing negative action except when you allow this other force to be either the driving force or we're allowing them to make some decisions.

I think it's interesting though,

I think in order for you to be able to recognize that that's not you,

You have to be connected to a sense of purpose every day.

If not,

How do you actually remember to awake that that's not you?

Then what is you?

It's where you're putting the truest parts of yourself.

Well,

I think the point is we,

And this is the other part,

Which probably we should develop a little bit further,

Is that,

And this is both scientifically true and spiritually true,

The only way out of self-sabotaging behavior,

Which we all have to one degree or another,

Is by really paying attention and coming to know ourselves and coming to know our thoughts.

Because one of the biggest problems with self-sabotage is that the triggers often,

And even the actions often are unconscious.

So if you're not- Aware.

Delving deeper into yourself and becoming more aware of your thought patterns,

Of your triggers,

Then it's almost impossible to reverse the course of self-sabotage.

But if you do take the time to think,

To look into yourself,

To ask,

Which I know you often do,

Let's say something happened,

Let's say you're upset.

What caused it?

What was the,

Not just what caused it.

Okay,

Maybe this person did something to me,

But what is the reason behind that?

What is the real reason this is causing me upset?

Affecting me.

Affecting me in this way,

Then you can start fixing it.

Then you have to find different thought patterns,

You have to develop different thought patterns and different,

Obviously,

Reactions to it.

But again,

The core is the delineation between myself,

That I am deserving,

That I am pure,

That I am an amazing soul.

And second,

The force of called it the negative inclination,

The body,

The desire to receive for the self alone,

The ego that when unchecked will lead us towards actions that are self-sabotaging.

Self-sabotage in the psychological world,

There are many actions that we're going to speak about,

But when you understand,

For instance,

That desiring people to respect you,

That I don't think many people,

Even in the books that you read on self-sabotage,

That might necessarily find a prominent place,

But it is.

Anything that is,

For lack of a better word,

Unspiritual,

Which when I say spiritual,

I mean the development of the self and its essence,

Then that is also self-sabotaging.

How is desiring- To be known.

How is that self-sabotaging?

Maybe that would inspire one,

Just for argument's sake,

That would inspire one to work harder and push their intention faster and stronger.

So it's a very important point,

Which has many ramifications.

I'm writing a book now,

You're writing a few books now.

Why are we doing that?

Why are you doing that?

And one of our listeners,

I'm sure we all hopefully have goals and things we want to accomplish.

What's the reason behind it?

I'll posit one reason why often people write books,

Write songs,

Develop their careers- To be known.

Yeah.

To be known.

Because we're having conversations with people,

Often very successful people.

And for me,

Again,

Not growing up in that environment,

It was very strange.

For some reason,

The only reason we make money,

The only reason we want to be famous is because we want to have a beautiful,

I would say wife,

But girlfriend for women.

There are people like that whose entire life's purpose is to be known.

Why?

Because they want- Well,

They don't think they can get it unless they have that.

Right.

But really,

It's crazy that often the driver for success is something external to myself.

It is not to manifest any wisdom that I have or helping other people.

But it can often be for the sake of external things.

Right?

Sorry.

So when you're saying self-sabotage,

The self you're speaking of is the elevated self.

Exactly.

Okay.

So self-sabotage,

But this is new,

Right?

Self-sabotage,

As everybody understands,

Is damaging,

Hurtful behavior we engage in that really,

Of course,

On a very lower level,

Doesn't allow us to live a good life,

Right?

Whether- Over drinking,

Procrastinating.

Right.

I have a student who,

Beautiful person inside and out,

But when she couldn't control things in her life or she felt badly about one situation that was going on that she had no control and she felt very emotional about,

What would she do?

She'd binge,

She'd purge,

She'd drink in excess,

She'd pill pop,

And then she'd be like that for a week out of every month to two weeks,

And so she couldn't handle it anymore.

Then she'd be clean for two weeks,

And then she'd go back and do it again.

So that's how most people understand self-sabotage.

And so what you're saying is the self that you're sabotaging that perhaps you'll never reveal or recognize is the truest self.

It's the highest,

Most elevated state of your being.

Right.

And the reason it's so important is this.

So I just want to finish the example.

A person decides he or she has a book they really want to write.

Simply put,

And obviously usually it's much more complex than this,

Two reasons why they want to write the book.

They feel that by writing it,

They'll bring pleasure to the people reading it,

And they really want to bring pleasure to other people,

Or they feel that there's a book that's in their essence they really want to reveal,

They have something to say.

Those are two that I would say are coming from the true self,

From the soul.

Or I want to become famous.

I want to write a book and I want it to be an amazing book so I become famous so people think I'm a great person.

The song like that,

You don't want to be rich,

I want to be famous.

That is self-sabotage because you're laying down the groundwork,

And I'm using a book as an example,

But it could be why are you having a career?

Why are you getting so much of our life?

And if you're not asking this question,

If the answer is the reason why I want to become a great artist is that I could become famous and people will think great things about me,

Not because I feel I need to bring this into the world,

Or this is something within myself that needs to be revealed,

Or I want to bring pleasure to other people,

Then your whole mindset is wrong.

Your whole mindset is based on that other part of you that is more linked to what I call the.

.

.

In the ancient text,

They called the negative inclination.

And those two,

Which means the person who overdrinks,

Even though they know it's not good for them,

And the person who's decided to become successful so that others will put them on a pedestal,

Those are very much linked.

And I would even say that the foundation for all the other self-sabotage that we do,

That is more known and more obvious,

Is the fact that we have not decided,

And again,

This isn't a decision,

This is the life's work,

To live from the truest part of me,

My soul,

My essence,

That I want to be successful,

Not so that people will look up to me,

But I want to be successful so that I can do good in the world,

For example.

So I think this is such an important shift in consciousness.

So basically you'll never meet that version of you if your desires,

Goals,

Ambitions are rooted in external feedback and validation and approval.

Exactly.

And therefore,

I would say to our listeners,

Maybe even before we start going down the path which is important,

To realize what are the obvious self-sabotaging that we're doing,

Pessimism or procrastination,

First go back even earlier.

Why are you living your life?

Why are you having a family?

Why are you getting married?

Why are you having a career?

And really try to clarify what parts of those desires are coming from the right place,

From your essence,

From your soul,

And what parts are not.

Because I feel it'd be very difficult for a person to stop self-sabotaging in the other,

I would say,

More obvious ways.

If there isn't clarity and a life lived based on the part of me that is pure and elevated,

My soul,

What we call it,

My desire to share,

And not one that is intertwined with my ego,

My desire to receive for the self alone.

Because that path,

Even in good things that we do,

Will keep us on a path.

Because we're self-sabotaging in non-obvious ways,

We will obviously continue to self-sabotage in more and more obvious ways.

Well,

What's interesting,

And I think you're saying is,

We basically want people to take a telescope or a magnifying glass,

Binoculars.

One side,

If you view it,

You see everything in large.

If you turn it the other way,

You see things small.

So I think when a person lives their lives in the way that you expressed of doing things for other people,

Then every single- Or for themselves,

To be clear,

Or because they just have to reveal this.

Often artists- Now I'm talking about the negative.

The negative,

Sorry.

Right?

So if they do it for that reason,

Then anything that happens that threatens that,

Anything that goes that's not according to the plan that you have will throw you off because you're not having that bigger picture where you can see the whole part of why you're here and what you're meant to do.

Often people are like,

Well,

I don't know what I came to this world to do.

They really struggle with finding what they're passionate about.

But the key here is,

Just stop focusing on the little minutia of things because that person in your life that you really want to please,

Or that new lover that you have that you really want to impress,

Or your mother that never thought you were a great artist,

Now you want to prove it to her.

That's such a small way to live a life,

Right?

Versus saying,

Okay,

I have no idea maybe what I'm supposed to do,

But I know that it's something great and big because that's the potential of everybody's soul is to reveal their greatness.

That's what I am and I want to live my life driven by me.

By me I mean by my soul,

By my essence.

My elevated soul.

My elevated self,

Which again,

I think often if we're honest with ourselves and this takes the time to look inside,

For all the things that we do from great to small,

What is the driving force?

Is it the elevated self or the soul or is it all the other possible drivers?

Then you're self sabotaging all the time and you're not even aware of it because you're not living your life.

Well,

It's interesting.

I often joke about this.

When I was in high school before,

I mean I found Kabbalah at 17,

But like freshman,

Sophomore,

Even part of junior year,

I felt really lost and I didn't understand the bigger picture,

Right?

As I just described it.

And so I was always looking for the next thing and nothing really mattered because it wasn't in the frame of something larger,

Right?

I didn't understand the rules of life or the purpose of life.

So my famous lines to my girlfriends,

I'd be like,

Just go do this.

You only live once.

You're never going to see them again.

Nothing actually was weighted in a truth that then directed my life in a different way of one that I could prioritize truth and importance and revelation,

Right?

So I think that's a big one.

I think also it's important.

I always like to think about the physical aspects of what this way of thinking when we're pessimistic,

What it does to us.

We should just know that studies have shown that pessimists give up easier.

They get depressed more often.

And by the way,

This supports everything that you just said spiritually,

Right?

And they're set up for a number of physical ailments ranging from the common cold to heart disease to immune disorders.

Again,

This is not me.

This is what studies have shown.

Optimists do better in school and work.

Their health is unusually good.

They age well.

They lead happier and longer lives.

Now most people assume physical health is wholly a physical matter determined by constitution,

Health eating habits,

Or health habits and avoiding germs.

And to some extent,

Of course that's true.

And your constitution is a result of your genes enhanced by good eating habits,

Vigorous exercise,

Wearing seatbelts,

Avoiding bad cholesterol,

Avoiding illness.

But this conventional view omits a major detriment of health.

And that is our own cognitions,

Our thoughts of which we have greater control than we suspect.

The way we think about our health changes our health.

And the way that we think about our life affects our lives.

What we think we deserve affects what comes.

So one thing is the effect of everything else.

Absolutely.

And there's a lot.

.

.

I've mentioned this book before,

Thinking Fast and Slow by Dr.

Kahneman.

An amazing book.

I strongly recommend it.

I've recommended this before.

In one of the studies that he cites is the fact that they interviewed a group of college students,

College graduates,

Asking them what did they expect their salaries to be 10 years down the line,

20 years down the line.

And they found- That's a question actually.

.

.

.

That there's almost always a correlation between what they expected to be making and what they actually are making.

Which means somebody who said,

Oh,

I'm going to have an amazing job.

I'll be making a quarter million dollars a year,

Whatever that number is.

They actually wound up being,

On average,

Wound up being there.

Somebody who said,

Oh,

I don't know,

Probably I'll be making $40,

000 a year.

That's where they wound up.

I love it.

And that's related again to everything you just said.

But also,

And again,

The spiritual foundation of this is something which actually I was reading about today,

Earlier today.

You never get anything you don't ask for.

You never get anything you don't ask for.

What is that?

Right.

That's for sure.

And so if you don't think that you deserve,

Which is foundation of self-sabotage,

Slow self-esteem or- But you also might get things you don't ask for.

That's why it took me a second to- Oh,

Yeah.

You will not get good things.

That's why- You will not get good things that you don't ask for.

And that's where consciousness comes in.

It doesn't mean,

By the way,

Even in the study,

It was just on average.

Not every single person who thought they were going to get something a certain salary.

But science shows us this study is for sure.

But also the spiritual foundation shows us that a pessimist is more likely not to get,

Even doing exactly the same effort and work as the optimist.

The one thing that's different is the consciousness.

The consciousness and therefore,

And the thought of what an individual deserves.

And therefore,

Again,

The understanding is if you're not even asking for it,

Meaning asking for it isn't saying the word,

But actually living in a state where you believe that you both deserve it and will achieve it,

You will never achieve it.

And I love the idea of state.

People can change their state all the time,

Anytime.

And we're meant to do it all of our lives.

By the way,

I was just going to say that this is probably one of the most important works of life.

The way we view ourselves,

As we spoke about earlier,

Which leads to whether we will be self-sab.

.

.

Or I wouldn't say whether,

We're all going to be self-sabotaging.

Whether we will diminish the amount of self-sabotage that we do,

And therefore allowing ourselves to have both a greater experience and therefore greater blessings in our lives.

Right,

Because like anything- I think it's the most important work,

But you really have to get the time to think.

There's a real gauge,

Right?

There's people really low,

They really actively harm themselves in physical,

Mental,

Spiritual ways.

Then there's people who don't think that they deserve it,

So they won't even ask for it and they're kind of here.

Which is also self-sabotaging.

Which is also self-sabotaging.

Then the highest level is that you never really reveal self,

Right?

The truest self.

It's that three part,

Which I really like.

I never kind of framed it like that.

Usually people are just focusing on,

Well,

Let's just remove the negative aspects of that behavior.

Then you're not self-sabotaging anymore.

But in fact,

No,

We're raising the dial here and you need to go to the highest state,

Which is revealing self.

Exactly.

That's why I would say- And what we're saying is if you don't repulse self,

True self,

Then you still are sabotaging even if you're not actively negatively harming yourself.

Exactly.

That's exactly what I was going to say is that don't make the mistake that I made up until I met you,

Which is the thought that I wasn't self-sabotaging.

Every single one of us,

You and I included,

And every single one of our listeners is self-sabotaging.

That self-sabotaging is limiting our lives.

Now like you said,

There's different levels to it,

Some person might be harming themselves and another person might be unconsciously harming themselves,

Another person might not be seeing themselves in the greater sight and therefore limiting their consciousness and therefore what they can actually manifest and so on.

But I think it's so important that our listeners realize every single one of us is self-sabotaging and the work that we're talking about hopefully will help all of us limit the amount of self-sabotaging and therefore,

But by the way,

Don't think it's ever going to end.

This is a lifelong battle,

Hopefully on a sliding scale of success,

But lifelong battle.

So there's three ways to dispel pessimism.

I'll go through them quickly because I always like to break things down with,

So now we've given the thought,

The consciousness and you need to follow up with immediate action.

So I prescribe myself and my students a lot of these kinds of like very simple steps,

Very practical,

Very immediate.

So the first is dispute your beliefs,

Give them an argument.

Sometimes when relationships begin to have challenges and arguments ensue,

If the belief is that there's nothing I can do to change or improve this,

Then that's what's going to happen.

But if we dispute our beliefs,

The course of actions and therefore the outcome will be different.

So the first thing is you don't have to accept every thought that you have,

Especially the negative ones as gospel.

The second is- And then I do that often,

Right?

I do that often.

Well,

Every day.

Repeat,

Repeat,

Repeat.

The second is separation.

Create space between you and your beliefs because your beliefs are just beliefs and they may or may not be fact,

Right?

So how do you get to that place of really being able to identify- With the negative beliefs,

They're almost never fact.

Correct.

So let's say that somebody comes over to you and you know she's jealous of you and yells,

You know,

You're a horrible mother and your kid,

Whatever,

Whatever they're spewing.

Now you have an option.

You have two choices here.

You can either believe it and feel horrible by yourself,

Or you can say,

Okay,

Wait one time,

Let me stop and look at this.

Do I think that I'm a good mother?

Do I spend time with my children?

Are they happy and engaged?

Do they tell me I'm a good mom?

What is the experience like?

So it's easier to distance ourselves from unfounded accusations when we actually just lay it out.

And then the third is don't fight your thoughts.

Acknowledge them and go beyond.

I see this a lot with people.

They're like,

Yeah,

I'm really trying not to think that anymore.

I'm really going to work hard.

I'm just going to try to stop.

No.

Like I said earlier about that part,

Like almost the shadow that comes in every now I'm like,

You can sit here for a minute,

But you really got to go.

It's just a bus stop.

It's kind of like that.

You don't want to carry them along with you.

How many times have you refused to think a positive thought about yourself?

Right?

I think for most people that is more the norm.

It's so hard.

It's easier to believe the bad things as Julia Roberts said in pretty woman,

But you can also,

Well,

She's talking about how she became a prostitute and Richard Gere's character asked her,

Well,

Why did you,

She said she heard all these negative things about herself growing up.

So why did you believe it?

And she said the bad stuff is easier to believe.

So you can also,

Just as we don't believe positive things,

We can refuse to believe negative things.

And this is where the practice comes in.

Don't fight your thoughts when you want to change things.

All you have to do is acknowledge them.

Say thank you very much for sharing.

You are acknowledging it,

Right?

Because even when you fight something,

You push it away,

That's still an energy that you have to put out there.

But just by being aware of it and saying,

Okay,

But I'm not going to give it any attention or energy now,

You're already halfway there from removing it completely.

And I give you an example and you know this,

But when our son Josh was born,

Right,

I got pregnant three months later with our daughter,

Miriam.

And so Josh was born with Down syndrome.

We were surprised.

We didn't know.

I purposely got pregnant as soon as I could because I didn't want to have a fear now of being pregnant again.

But if you recall,

I was terrified that something was going to happen again,

Something,

You know,

To my next pregnancy.

And I kept saying to you,

You know,

Lightning can strike again.

You're like,

No,

No,

That never happens.

I'm like,

No,

No,

No.

I'm pretty sure person has been hit more than once by lightning.

You're like,

No,

So of course I went to Mr.

Google.

And Roy Sullivan has been struck by lightning seven times in fact.

Poor Roy.

Well,

He's a park ranger,

But still I don't really get that.

So I,

No judgment.

But I remember like I was looking for some kind of proof that,

You know,

This could happen.

So I was standing next to Roy.

So then I thought,

I don't have the stamina to,

For this mental energy for nine months of fighting.

Like,

Is this something going to happen again?

Is you know,

What,

What is the birth going to be like?

Will my baby be healthy in every way?

So when those thoughts would come and say,

I acknowledge that you're there.

I am not giving this any energy.

And right now I am just pregnant and I'm fully engaged.

I also didn't want to affect my child or like have fears and all of these things.

So that's an example of how you can absolutely acknowledge a negative thought,

But not take it as truth and not carry it with you.

Nice.

Nice.

So do you want to get to the next topic?

I think we'll do that next week.

So we're going to break this down to four episodes?

At least two.

Well,

We have helplessness.

I'm feeling kind of helpless to share the rest of the information in this moment.

And judgment,

Negative speech together,

And then perfectionism.

All right,

People just know that Michael has told me to stop speaking and we are going to end the podcast here.

And Monica always does what I ask,

Which is beautiful.

Well,

That's what you want it to look like.

So one of the things that I got,

We got a few emails that we haven't,

I haven't asked you questions in a while.

So I was actually going to ask you for questions.

I actually have a few that I wrote down.

Yeah,

Ask me one at least.

But our friend David wrote an email with a question I think more directed towards you,

Which I think- Why does it say my name on it?

Or you're just assigning me- It definitely says your name on it.

You're assigning me to answer the question.

I think you're better to answer this question than I am.

But I'll get some input if you want.

Me too.

Hello,

Monica and Michael.

Thank you very much for what you do.

I am sure that it is a light for many people,

Including me.

I am watching Spiritually Hungry podcast episode 43.

The last words I've heard were from Monica,

That she said she was able to receive unconditional love,

Non-judgmental,

And a relationship that allows her to be vulnerable,

If you remember that.

I would like to learn to give that.

I believe that if I could give that,

The world would be a little bit better.

If there were only one lesson in this life,

I wish that could be the lesson.

So David's saying he wants to learn how to create that.

COVID has been very hard.

I lost many things.

Thank God not close family members nor the comfort of a home,

But I would like to change.

Since the pandemic started,

My approach has been to not see anyone or to go out only if it was really necessary.

And that hasn't allowed me to see friends,

Family,

And a girlfriend who's now my ex-girlfriend.

But I thought it was worth it.

In the end,

I prefer to lose some time than losing a beloved one forever.

I think that decision has made me lose my girlfriend.

And it was very painful because it wasn't in a loving way.

Maybe if I could learn this lesson,

Maybe it could help me in the future.

And that would also apply to my family and friends.

I don't want to miss this opportunity to grow.

And I believe you are the great teachers for this.

Please,

I would like to know your feedback if my decision was the best and how can I learn unconditional love,

Non-judgmental,

And a relationship that allows her to be vulnerable.

Your love and work inspires me.

Please,

I would appreciate to hear from you.

I wish you the best,

David.

So the question that he's asking is,

As we spoke about in the previous episode,

That one of the important aspects of relationship is to create that circle of creativity where both partners in the relationship feel safe and therefore able to become vulnerable.

So the question that he's asking is how maybe some practical tools or how would you recommend it maybe even he even start to develop this ability in his next relationship?

It's been a difficult time for many and I'm sorry that he's had a hard,

Tough go with all of this.

But I feel like when you make a decision based from fear,

It's never really going to lead you in the right way.

So did he not see his girlfriend or not see people because he was afraid that he would somehow harm them,

But was there a different way to connect?

They just don't see things as black and white in that way.

More importantly,

Moving forward,

What do you do?

Well,

He's asking also if it was the right decision to make.

So I think he'd go back and reevaluate this.

I don't want him to have regret about that relationship while he's now looking for the next one because he'll always still be looking in the rear view mirror.

So I think that whether to know if he made the decision,

The right decision or not,

He has to really look at all these things of what was the relationship like before COVID?

Is it something?

Why didn't it?

A lot of people became closer.

A lot of relationships really flourished.

Even people met each other during this time.

So I think that that's- We know a few.

That's very telling.

That's a real indication of maybe it wasn't the relationship that could stand the test of time because it didn't in this case.

In terms of creating the circle of creativity or unconditional love,

I've often said that unconditional love and control can't exist.

So again,

Trying to control this situation when it's an uncontrollable.

.

.

Everything is really actually uncontrollable,

But when we meet- I think that's a very important point because often in relationships consciously or something that's unconsciously,

We would like to control the other person or at least control the relationship.

Especially things that matter to us.

It matters at the heart.

The more we care,

The more we try to control.

And you simply cannot have a relationship that is unconditional from that space.

They can't coexist.

So I think the question to ask yourself is,

What areas am I doing this in which ways?

And look at really specific examples because when you really love somebody,

You let them have their journey.

You're part of it and you're there to walk by their side,

But you have to let them have their journey through their process just as you should have that as well.

And you would hope your partner would give you that.

In doing so,

You do create that circle of creativity because now you have a space where you are feeling safe,

Secure,

Supported to find out your creativity,

Your journey.

You're able to express that because you're not afraid of having some kind of some love or something withheld from you.

Interesting.

So that's one tool of actually work that David could actually start doing now,

Even whether he's already found his next relationship or looking when probably better to do this work before.

For sure.

And look back at all the relationships that he's had.

How are you able to be in a relationship without trying to control either the relationship more importantly or the outcome of the process?

Yeah,

All of that.

Yeah.

Well,

I often say this too.

I think that before the step before all of the things that we just said is to look at the relationship you have with yourself.

How unconditional are you with yourself?

Which relates to everything we spoke about in this podcast.

Right.

And usually when people aren't able to give unconditional love to others is because they're too critical or judging themselves and expect themselves to be perfect,

That that control aspect of other parts of their life.

And of course then that goes into the relationship.

So step one is to look within and really evaluate or reevaluate the relationship you have with yourself and the one that you would rather have.

And then- How you view yourself as worthwhile and everything we spoke about.

Right.

Beautiful.

Thank you,

David,

For sending your question.

I'll just share one more quick thing,

Which I'll hopefully expand on next week.

But it's interesting in thinking slow and fast.

Kahneman brings studies that were done on the quality of life,

How people viewed their lives,

Their wellbeing in marriage.

So they took obviously a large cohort of people and they followed them before they were married,

When they got married,

And then five plus years into marriage.

And it's a very strange looking graph,

But it's basically,

And those who are watching this on YouTube or Facebook,

But basically there's a set point that goes a little bit down prior to the engagement in marriage,

And it goes up,

Meaning the sense of well,

If you ask somebody,

How's your life going for the first year,

And then it slowly starts declining so that by year five,

Most people have less well,

Or sense of wellbeing in their life after five years into the marriage,

Which is a whole topic on its own.

But the idea- That's not a fact that I would love to.

Yes.

But what I think,

But to your point is that fallacy,

That getting married is going to make me happy forever is scientifically proven to not be true,

Which necessitates everything we spoke,

We speak about.

But what you just said,

It's just that unless you are looking inside and have a very positive relationship with yourself,

The lie is that,

Oh,

When I got married,

My sense of wellbeing in life is going to grow that scientifically,

Obviously proven not to be true.

I'll tell you exactly what happens.

After the first six months,

The influx of dopamine and cortisol levels and all that's happening with that honeymoon phase,

After six months,

It dissipates.

That is a fact.

Then what happens,

You really see the person for who they are and you're like,

Okay,

But I still love them,

Whatever,

You get married,

Then it's up again and it's nice and it's new and you have a home to get,

Whatever.

Then people tend to stop working on their relationships and they stop appreciating their partner and they think their unhappiness is because of the partner,

Because what they did is the expectation was set all along that you will make me happy and you are meant to do- Absolutely.

So then when that illusion is shattered,

Well,

Then naturally I married the wrong person and they never actually really look within to say,

Okay,

This was the reality all along and I thought that this person was going to fix it,

But very few people are able to catch that.

Yeah.

Again,

Not to end- Are you making this a relationship podcast?

No,

I'm sorry.

I was going to say my next point,

Which again Kahneman speaks about,

Which is the fact that getting married is actually an illogical decision,

Which most people think it is a logical decision,

But that's a whole other conversation,

Which hopefully we'll have next time we speak about relationships.

I'm going to write that down for another podcast.

Yes,

Very interesting.

The illogical choice of marriage.

Yes.

So thank you,

David,

For sending in your question.

Thank you to all of our listeners for listening.

And again,

Reminding all of you that the reason we record this podcast is to hopefully inspire,

Bring some light,

Some direction into the lives of our listeners.

We are very much inspired when you share with us both inspiration that you receive,

Questions that you have,

And stories that you'd like to share.

So please,

Please,

Please continue sending your questions,

Comments,

Emails,

Stories,

And more to monicaandmichaelatkabala.

Com.

Monica and and michaelatkabala.

Com.

We read all of them.

We don't get to all of them,

But we will over the next few years as we continue the podcast,

Get to as many as possible.

But it's really important to us and inspires us.

And it also,

As with David,

Allows us to even expand further and give hopefully more inspiration to the rest of our listeners.

So please make sure you continue to send in your questions and stories to monicaandmichaelatkabala.

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So please do everything you can to support this podcast and share it with as many people as possible.

And as always,

I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

You said please so many times.

Please,

Please,

Please.

I wonder if when you ask me questions,

I never hear the please,

Please,

Please.

I know you.

I don't know how many times you said please.

Please.

Thank you for joining us.

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