Reframing ‘Pain’ To ‘Tension’, On Having A Calm Birth

Maria joins me to discuss the concept of reframing our prior conditioning to observe reality as it is, first using our recent birth experience, but then taking that concept into all areas of life. It’s not ‘pain’ it is ‘tension’, this language change has a profound impact on the outcome of birth. We also discuss how meditation and breathing help to control the mind.

Transcript

Welcome to the Reality Check Podcast. I'm Zachary Phillips. I'm here today with my wife, Maria. Hello. Hey. We've just finished recording an Abundance Mentality Podcast. If you don't know already, We've got a podcast or a couple of podcasts other than this one that we do together. One of them is The Abundance Mentality. Basically, In that podcast, We talk for 20 minutes diving into a book or a resource and really sort of extrapolating that and applying it globally. We have a second one, Which is The Motherland Podcast, Which is a bit of humor and a bit of fun. But what I wanted to talk about on this podcast is a birth experience, But more specifically reframing pain to tension. Okay. So after our little talk here, I'll play the episode of The Abundance Mentality where we talk about calm birth and the birth experience. But there's a little bit in there that I wanted to sort of dig down upon that I thought would suit well for this podcast. Yeah. And the basic idea is that calm birth, It teaches you to have a good birthing experience, Basically to use meditation, Visualization, Education, And breath work to have a positive birth experience. Yeah. And it really did help. It really works. It really works. Yeah. So I'll play that episode and that'll sort of go into depth. But one of the main things that I wanted to draw down upon was that they reframed the idea of contraction pains as tensions. Or waves. Or waves. They still use both words. Yeah. And that was really interesting to me because there's this whole, I think they use the term like sorority of pain where women are always like, This childbirth experience was terrible. This, You know, All of this thing, This bad experience, Bad experience, Bad experience. And we just recorded a Motherland podcast where we talk about your mum's terrible experience in Russia, Right? Yes, Yes, Yes. So we're just, You're doing that again. So we're adding to it, Right? But the point is, Is like you see in movies and, You know, The lady's there, She's dripping with sweat and freaking out and it's like this absolute trauma, Right? Screaming for hours. Screaming for hours. It's a mess, Right? Yeah, It's terrible. And. . . It doesn't have to be like that. It doesn't have to be like that. But like, I like the idea of like doing this on the reality check podcast because we're talking about checking into the reality of the situation. And from my experience, I know that pre-calm birth, Pre-having our first son and now our second son, My understanding of birthing was the sorority of pain that I heard. So was mine, 100%. Yep. And both in real life, From my mum and all of my mum's friends when I was forced to listen to them over and over again. And then from TV. Too much information. Too much information. And the TV, Yeah. Like every single drama show, Because if you think about it, Right, TV dramas want drama. They want to show you the worst. Yeah, Because how. . . Like it's not exciting. Like I'm an author, Right? Yeah. Am I going to write a chilled, Casual birth experience or am I going to add drama into that? Mother and baby were perfectly healthy. And nothing went. . . The end. And nothing went wrong, Right? And nothing happened. Your birth experience was fine, Right? Yeah. Absolutely fine. Boring. Boring. Like it's not. . . That's what you want. You didn't need much. . . You only needed gas for pain release. You didn't need any stitches. Your recovery process has been perfect. He's perfectly fine, Right? There's no drama there. So if I was to write that in a story, I would just, You know, Literally do it in a couple of sentences. Like, Yeah, It was a great birth experience and off we go to the story. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Whereas if I wanted to highlight that, I would be like, You know, Really digging deep into the drama bits of it. But this got me thinking. Let's apply that same logic to everything. Okay. To every little thing that you think about. Breakups, Work issues, Family dramas, Breaking a bone. Like death, Religion, Spirituality, Like war. Absolutely every experience that you can possibly have, Just emotionality, Anger, Right? Yeah. Like, We've all been framed on something, Right? Is that framing real? Have what we experienced, You know, Like, Like, Because like, Let's say, You know, And we're going to do this to our kids, Right? My son views the world as an, Our oldest son. . . Four-year-old, Yeah. Four-year-old. He acts and thinks and does the way we do. Like, Obviously he pushes back and has his own personality, Right? Yeah. But it's all in reference to us. Yeah, Of course. It's all in reference to the shows we choose to show him. It's all in reference to the environment and the stuff that he gets, Right? So obviously I'm tying a big loop here and it's maybe a little bit esoteric. But if we bring it back to the birth experience of waves to pain, Right? That reframing, Like, Saved you so much drama, Right? Can you, Can you, Can you sort of talk on that and we can sort of dig into it a bit more? Yeah, It was, It was really interesting. They had me doing, Like, Practice meditations every day, Which I did for months. And the whole time it's all about waves and tension coming through. They never use the word pain. They never use any negative words. I mean, Obviously they acknowledge that sometimes things can get a little bit tricky and that you might have to pivot your birth plan, You know, According to what is going on. But they, They basically teach you that it's going to be calm, It's going to be joyful and you're going to have these waves and they're hard work, But it's only for a minute and you're going to. . . You can do anything for a minute. . . . You're going to rest after that and it's going to be fine. So. . . Yeah. So, So how do you think reframing the, The contraction, The, The physical sensations of contractions from pain to tension? Yeah. How did that, How was that impact for you? How did that change for me? Well, The interesting thing is I still felt pain. But I was not bothered by it much until like literally pushing that head out, But that only went on for 14 minutes. So, You know, And, And the thing is that the 14 minutes doesn't count the rest. So. . . Because there's breaks in between. There's breaks in between the contractions. Yeah. So it's probably only like seven really. But right up to the pushing stage, To the whole first stage of labour, Which like I had contractions overnight and then the whole morning and I was using the terms of machine and it did hurt, It hurt like a little bit of like a period cramp. Um, Which, You know, As a guy you wouldn't know what that's like, But it's like your belly sort of cramping up in pain. Um, But you know, You sort of breathe and you go, Okay, That's a wave and you just know it's going to be over in a minute and, And then it's over. I don't know. You sort of not worried about it. I guess, I guess what I want to drill down upon is like all of that process is, Is amazing and great. And we, I'll play the episode later to sort of drill into, I want to sort of drill into the, The reframing. Yeah. I'm trying to think how to explain it. Because it, It, It's, There's something that it's touching upon that it's like, Okay, Let's, Let's, Let's change it. Let's say, Like as a, As a guy, Right? The typical masculine thing and like, The West is terrible for this, It's like, You shouldn't feel emotions, You shouldn't express emotions. It's not manly, It's you know, Man up, Harden up, All of this sort of stuff, Right? So then when you do feel something. You panic. You panic or you, You turn away from it or you don't know how to deal with it because those same emotions, It's, It's like whatever you're experiencing now in response to trauma, To loss, Grief, Breakup, Whatever it is, It's, It's foreign and anything you do experience is being framed to you by society as not great, As, As wrong, Right? And it's not normal for people in the West to say like, Wail out loud in funerals, Right? Yeah. Or it's not normal to scream, Right? Yeah. But then if you apply this to like, One of the things that I like, It's like this weird little thing that I just, Sometimes when they pop up on my social feeds is like the, The Maori haka, Right? Or there's other tribes where there'll be like other things where there'll be like a funeral procession where the people are wailing or like there's practices of like laughing out loud or screaming, Right? And it's like, They've taken the same event and they've, Their response to it is framed differently. It's okay to scream. It's okay to yell. It's okay to come together as community and mourn, Right? Yeah, Yeah. So they're reframing that. Or singing, Sometimes they do the singing. Singing, Right? And I can't help but feel that the reframing of the same feelings would have potentially positive, More positive outcomes. Yeah, Absolutely. So, So from there I go, It's like, Okay, Well what else are we, What else are we not doing? There's, There's a book, Models. Oh yeah. Models, Which is like a, Mark Manson's Models, Which is like, It's like the best pickup book of all time because it's talking about, You know, Men making them, Rather than trying to like use tactics to pick up chicks, It's like make yourself a better person, Right? Be yourself and be vulnerable. Be yourself and be vulnerable and all of a sudden. The right girl will like you for who you are, Yeah. There are things, You know, To make yourself dress better and a whole, It's an amazing book. I think every guy should read it and everyone should read it because it's incredible. But one part of it, He talks about his friend passing and he gets, He gets quite vulnerable, Right? And rather than sort of pulling away from it, Because he's so raw and vulnerable, He becomes, It's endearing. But beyond that, The lesson that he takes from that is that it's like, What does this give me? So, As in like, What's, What do I get? What's the silver lining? Like there's a different way of framing it and he talks about it and basically his friend died young. And I'm butchering the story, Read the book. His friend died young and that sort of taught him the value of life to sort of take action, To live life, To go for things because, My God, You could die at any time. And he, He, He, He realised that it's like, Okay, Well, What are we, What am I getting from this? It's sort of like reframing the death or reframing that event. It's like, Well, What do I get? He's still like grieved and did all the other stuff. Oh, Of course. Of course. And he was trying to find a positive, Yeah. But then he's applied that same logic of, Of like sort of, Well, It's like, Well, What's the silver lining? What's, What's the lesson here to everything? So, If you break up with someone, If you lose your job, If you are in physical pain, What do you get from that? What's the silver lining? How can you reframe it? Another person that I'm quite into is Jocko Willink and he, In a recent podcast, Said that he was injured and one of his key phrases is good. And, You know, Once again, Read Extreme Ownership, Amazing book. But anything that happens to you, He says good. Good. Oh, We, We, You know, This, This, We, We, We forgot to do this thing in training. Good. It's like, Oh, We need to do this extra thing. Good. This bad thing happened. Good. It's always good. Because you learn from it. You learn from it. And the example that sort of stuck with me was, It's like, I got injured. I can't train. Good. I can do something else. And the example he gave was, He'd been stuffing around with guitars for 30 years, But then he quite injured himself. He couldn't do jiu-jitsu. He couldn't lift. He couldn't do a variety of things that he wanted to do. But he was able to apply that, You know, For that 30 days or however long it's going to recover, He really drilled down on the guitar. And in that 30 days, He learned more than he had done in 30 years or something, Something like that. Because he was able to refocus, Reframe it. Yeah, It sucks to be injured. Yeah, You can't do the things that you can normally do, But you can reframe. Such a good attitude. Yeah. That's wonderful. And I suppose with my life, With what I'm doing, Like having a new child, I've gotten woken up early. So, It's like I can go, I can be annoyed by that. I can be disrupted by that. Or I could take that as an opportunity to do some work, To do some recording, To do some things that I want to do that I wouldn't have time when the kids are awake. Yeah. But that's still not quite. . . The same. It's still not quite what I'm going for. I guess I always have this thing, And maybe being my partner, You've sort of heard me ramble about this, And I know my therapist gets this as well. It's like, Is this this issue with objective morality? We can only see the world through our own perspective, Right? So, The way we've been raised, Our religion, Our society, Our life experiences, Our parents. . . Shapes you. Shapes us. So that when something happens, We only see it through that lens. Yeah. So, How hard is it to step back and see things for what they are? Well, I guess that's where the meditation comes in. Right. But it's like. . . Yeah, Because it gives you that breath in between, Like your instinct and what you're feeling and what you're seeing straight away, And then, Okay, Hang on, I'm actually back here a bit, And I can just look at the bigger picture a bit. I mean, It doesn't change the shaping that much, But at least it gives you that breath between. How easy is it to look at someone else's life and go, Oh, If only you just saw it this way, Right? But then, Like my real cry. . . I guess what I'm sort of circling around upon is, I want to be able to do that for myself, Because I could see this like it's a prime example. Contraction pains are reframed to tensions and equals positivity in terms of a calm birth experience. It was amazing, Right? Yeah, Yeah. How many of those things am I not. . . Where else is that? Right? Like how many times am I looking at. . . Okay, I've got another one actually that we use with our son. It's not that he's being naughty. It's that he's wanting. . . What is it he's wanting a. . . What's the word again? What was it? It's not that he's attention seeking, It's that he's looking for a relationship. He's looking for a relationship. That's it, Yes. So it's like. . . It reframes the behaviour. It's not attention seeking. He's not being a little naughty boy. He wants. . . I don't believe there's any such thing. He wants attention. He wants love. He wants love and care for him. He wants someone to like. . . Yeah, He wants connection. Right? But it's not coming in a different way. So he's looking for it in some silly way. And his fault. How does he know how to get the affection he needs? But then the same actions applied, He wants relationship. Yeah. And it's like I. . . That really helped us. It so helps because it's like. . . It just helps to just cut the wind out of the sails, Right? So a couple of examples. There's a school example and a sort of a neurotic example, I'll put it. And I'll go the neurotic example first. If I'm talking to someone, Given what I do online and in-person stuff, People that have had trauma and past issues and stuff gravitate to what I'm doing, Fair enough. Like makes like, Right? But there can initially be a neurotic approach to the connection with me. It's sort of like, If you're listening to this podcast now, You've heard hours and hours of my life, My voice. If you've read my work, You know me far, Far, Far more than I know you. There's this sort of one-way relationship thing happening that it feels like you know me, But I actually don't know you. Yeah. Right? But I'll get DMs and connections of people like, Hey, I want to call you right now because I've got a problem. And I'm like, Dude, We've never even spoken online and I'm not a therapist. And I don't know. Yeah. Like there's all of these things, But it's sort of like, That's my initial response. It's like, Oh, Right. But then I just reframe it's like, Okay, This person is someone that's struggling. It's this person that someone in need, This person. So I'll obviously give the kind response and that sort of stuff, But I have to set the boundaries of course. But what I'm getting at is the same thing in person, The same like in my real life, Quote unquote, It's like, Is that person being too forward or are they struggling? Is this person, You know, I work as a disability support worker and my client has an autism spectrum disorder amongst other stuff. Is he purposely doing the behaviour or is the behaviour a representation of, You know, Is it an expression of the disability? So there's like, I'm trying to reframe that, But once again, It's like, I know that I know I've got a massive blind spot here. Right. I know that I've got this massive blind spot. What's your blind spot? Of this reframing potential. Oh yeah. Cause you know, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. You're not, You don't know what you're not seeing. Yeah. It's like, I find a lot of benefit from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Right? It's sort of like, There's this parallel life lessons, Right? The more I train, The more I realise that I don't know and the more of these blind spots gets opened up. It's like, I try and reframe things. So it's like, You win in, You quote unquote win in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu by getting the person to submit, To tap. One time my coach said, You get them to tap by making their body go the way it shouldn't go. And he just reframed the thinking. It was no longer apply this individual technique to do this individual break or choke or, You know, Dislocation. It's move their body where it shouldn't go. Yeah, Like the other way. Move the body the way it shouldn't go. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. And that's like, I'm like, That unlocked, I'm no longer trying for individual techniques. Now I'm just, It's like I'm looking at the whole, The whole picture a bit more. Obviously I don't know. I'm, You know, I've only been doing it for a small, You know, Not that long relative to, You know, My coaching, You know, Actual masters, But it sort of helps me to reframe and then get the application. And the, The, The, The teaching example is when I was teaching, I always tried to reframe the naughty kids, Quote unquote. You go into a classroom and you get this sort of hand over from the previous teacher and the teacher would be like, Watch out for this kid, He's a naughty one. Yeah, Okay. And I'm like, Oh, And it's sort of, There's so many things cause that kid now, You know, His whole life and it even transitions from primary school to secondary school. The, The, The, The teachers are like, Watch out for this kid. And that kid's just labeled from the start, Right? And it's shocking. It's terrible. But with those kids, Nine out of 10 times, I was able to just simply reframe it by giving them responsibility. Yeah. I'd be like, Hey, Jimmy, Can you wipe the, Wipe down this board? Can you hand out the papers? Can you run this letter to a teacher and just like, Keep them busy, Keep them busy, But give them, Give them relationship. Right. I didn't have that terminology, But it was reframing the behaviour. Yeah. I've read a lot about like, Behaviour. It's not, It's not anything to do with them trying to be naughty. Obviously it's, It's more like there's feelings there, There's pent up feelings that they haven't been able to express and no one's validated or been able to talk to them about. And, Or like it might be even trauma that they've been through or something that they need to express, But they can't. So they express it by altering their behaviour. And so every time a child is being like naughty or, You know, Undesirable behaviour or whatever, There's always some kind of feeling or need there that's, You know, Not been looked at. 100%. Yeah. You've, Once again, It's, It's, Yeah, It's reframing. I suppose it's like maybe if we, If we turn this to a, Like a mindfulness approach, It's sort of like looking at things as they are, As opposed to as you've been sort of taught or conditioned. Yeah. You know, You can apply that to like rude people in the street, Like adults. It's not just children. I've got, I've got another example that's sort of like a bit more tangential to, To example. There's like the traditional relationship example and the traditional work example, Both of which we've deviated from, Right? The there's this sort of framing that we had growing up and I'm sure a lot of people had, You know, Get the job, Get the career, Get the marriage and you're done. Yeah. And then what? And then what, Right? But it's like. . . Then it's midlife crisis time. Midlife crisis time. But what is the midlife crisis? You say it so much. It's, It's, It's literally a realisation like, Oh. . . Everything I've been working for is actually not what makes me happy. I'm not happy right now. So it's like what I've sort of learnt is if we go like down any of those paths, It's like, Well, Just because this is what we've been led to believe is the good thing doesn't make it actually. . . It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it that good either. Doesn't make it good. It doesn't mean that we should perpetuate. It doesn't mean I should go for it. Like, Like, Like, You know, Like I can. . . I do three days of work a week and I do my writing and I've got a variety of different things that I do. It's like, It's chaotic, Right? It's not normal. But you like it. I like it. And it's like, It's like. . . We've got. . . And you're earning more than you've done before, So. . . Well, I'm able to keep working more than I can do before. I'm able to maintain that. It's like you sort of told multiple things growing up. It's like you can be whatever you want to be but also get a nine to five job working for someone else, Right? Hang on a second. Which one is it? Yeah. Find, Find the love of your life but settle down and get married and don't think about anything else ever again. Yes, Okay. But what if. . . Yeah, There's just none. . . It's like, There's sort of like these. . . I don't know. It's sort of like. . . And it's never. . . There's not really ever like spoken these rules, Right? It's sort of like. . . Yeah, And like anyone you speak to is like, No, It doesn't matter. You know, If you actually like pin someone down and speak to them, They're all like, No, Do whatever. Like, It doesn't matter. Like, Don't worry about what society says. But then you still end up with these ideas from society. But those people are most likely also still doing what society says as well. Yeah. But if you actually pin someone down, They don't. . . You're like, Of course it's fine. They're not. . . Yeah. Yeah, And this interesting thing is like, Don't be a weirdo, Right? Don't be like, You know, Like it's like this idea of like, There's this drive to conform. But yeah, You pin someone down, It's like, Yeah, You know, Like people respect. . . No, Of course not, Of course it's fine. Yeah. How odd and weird and crazy is every famous person, Right? Anyone that makes it is not normal. Right? Yeah, They just had to like leave it all behind. Just like, I'm just going to be myself and just. . . Yeah. They're appreciated for the fact that they're not normal. They're appreciated for the fact that they have like leaned in hard to themselves. They've been vulnerable. They've been honest and they've looked at things like, You know what, Stuff that I'm going to live this life that I want to live. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. But not too much because then they're just weirdos, Right? It's a thing of like, If you're successful. . . What is it? Like you're crazy until you're successful and then you're eccentric? And then you're just like, Yeah, Kooky and fun, But successful. Did you ever read the book, The Artists, The Daily Rituals? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. That's amazing. So, I've talked about it before, But it's worth mentioning again. The Daily Rituals book was like, Here's a bunch of artists, Writers, Painters, Etc. From over time. And it's really like a hundred years back or something. Yeah, And it's just highlighting their different daily rituals. And by the end of it, You realise that they're all different. They're all odd in their own way. Some people are super strict and regimented. Some people are, You know, I'll just wake when I get woken up. Some people are like doing drugs and alcohol and coffee. And then they do, Yeah, All day. All day at 3am, They're like, Now it's time to write, Right? Oh my God. After they've finished all their cocaine. Yeah. One guy's doing like, You know, Like naked stretches in his window and another guy's like, You know, 9. 05am sharp. He's, You know, Like, Whatever. But the point is, Is like, There's no correct way. They've worked themselves out, Right? I know personally, The more I shed of all of this sort of stuff, The happier I am, The more successful I am, The better, Like, The better I am as a human. It's sort of about like sort of deconstructing that whole. Yeah. But it's almost like, Which part do I shed as well? Because some of it's like, Do I need some of it? Well, This gets to the, What's the goal of life, Right? It's like, Well, Yeah. And, But then it's like, It's sort of like take that time to step back and just reevaluate what you're doing and why. It's very easy to rush to the next, To the next, To the next, To the next thing. And try the different options as well. Not just the one that seems like, It's got to be this one. It's got to be this option. I need a nine to five job because I have seven days in a week to fill. I'm going to fill five with a job. Okay. I got one for you, Right? The seven day structure itself. Where did that even come from? Well, Calendars and creations. That's not the point, Right? So, So I'm doing a exercise split in the gym. It's a pull, Push, Legs, Rest day. Now the traditional approach that you see online everywhere is to fill it in the seven days. So, On Monday I do this, I do pull. Tuesday I do push. Wednesday I do legs. Thursday I do pull, Push, Legs. And then by Sunday you have a rest day on the Sunday. Okay. Right. So, That means that every day you wake up, Monday every time is the same. Tuesday is every time the same. You can put it in your calendar. Put it in your calendar. But that doesn't necessarily make sense physiologically, Right? Like, Like evolutionarily. A caveman didn't, We didn't evolve with Monday. Yeah. You know, Right? Like, No, We just, We just did it. We just did our thing. Like, Days are a construct. Time's a construct. So, The other literature for exercise talks about the need for rest. So, My approach now is to go a pull, Pull, Push, Legs, Rest day. Yeah. A four-day. . . It lost just seven. Yeah, A four-day split. So, That means that Monday this week will, It'll drift and it'll change, Right? Do you keep a note on your phone? Yes. Because you can't use your calendar now. Yeah, Exactly. No, I just, I just remember what I'm up to. Yeah, Okay. The point is, Is that it's. . . I have to shed the concept of days of the week. Yeah. To be able to do that. To be able to do that, Right? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. You know, Like, Like all people that, You know, Own a small business, It's like they'll have to take their weekends when they can. So, It's like they might work, They might shift their weekends to Monday, Tuesday, Because that's the traditional down days. They're still getting their two-day off. Yeah. But their weekends now that day, Right? Yeah. It's just this, This ability to just open your mind and sort of reframe how things are and sort of question reality. Yeah. Question societal constructs, Question things. Is it pain or is it just tension? Yeah. Because if it's tension, That means something completely different to if it's pain. Pain's bad. Pain's painful. Pain's terrible. Yeah, And that's what it was. Tension's just, Tension's like, Oh, I'm pushing my muscles against things. That's what they were sort of trying to get at. It's like if you're running a marathon and your legs hurt, Is that bad? And they were like, No, You wanted to do this marathon. Well, I mean, I mean, Even if we, We take it to pain and sort of turn it, Um, Like sexual, Right? Some people are turned on by pain. Yeah. Pain for some people can be pleasurable. Yeah. I'm not saying that like, You know, Childbirth is pleasurable, Although apparently some people are apparently orgasm to childbirth, Right? Which is like, I was kind of hoping for that. But the point, The point is, Is like that has actually happened to people, Right? The point is, Is that it's reframing. If you, If you went into childbirth and like I said, We'll play the can't birth after this, But if you went into that experience going, Okay, This is going to be the most traumatic, Terrible experience. It's going to be exactly like my mum and every drama show I've ever seen on TV and yada yada yada. And the first bit of pain you would just freak out. You would want the most, The most extreme intervention or you might opt for an optional Caesar. Like fair enough, Right? Like do whatever you want to do, But far out, Do you really like, Is that, Is that what you want? Does that have to be the first option? Do you really want that? Do you really want to be cut open? Like as, As like your, Your first thing? I personally was definitely more scared of surgery. Yeah. But yeah. And fair enough, Like obviously everyone's each to their own and do, Do whatever you want to do in life, But it's more like do whatever you want to do in life, Provided you've thought it through and you've stepped back. Like same thing. Okay. Now another example, I'm just sort of freewheeling on these, Right? Is divorce bad? Right? What's your default societal reaction? Societal yes, But I don't think it's necessarily bad. 100%, 100% right. Societals it's definitely bad. Oh, You can't break up. That's terrible. Yeah. You know what, Actually you can. What if you made the wrong decision those years ago? What if you've grown apart? What if a partner's abusive? What if you simply don't like them? What if, Yeah, There's so many different reasons why divorce, Break up, Ending a friendship, Leaving a job, All of these things are actually the best move that you can do. It's like, It's like in war, It's like never retreat. It's like, No, Actually let's tactically retreat. Yes, Absolutely. Another example, It's like I'm, They're coming to me more now. Okay. We're on a roll now. We're on a roll. Indoor rock climbing. I was climbing and my brother was like, He showed me a thing and he was climbing up and then he went backwards to replace his foot onto a different hold to move forward. I'm like, Oh my God, You can go backwards to go forward. Never thought of that. Because I was sort of just bull rushing through. I'm like, No, Why would you, Like it didn't, I didn't even think about going backwards. Yeah. But the best way to get up the wall was to, Is to get up the wall, Right? It's not, It's not about just moving forward. It's about finishing the wall. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. That might mean that you might go down a little bit to replace your hands, To come around, Go backwards to go forwards. It's like, Oh, You know, Okay, We're reframing how to actually approach this. The program, You know, To, To beat the wall to win doesn't mean you have to go forward. You know, Do you sort of see, So it's sort of like, What's, What's our overall goal here? What are we trying to do? That's, That's the win state. Yeah. It's, It's an interesting way to look at things. So like with relationships, Like with, Okay, Another one. If our sons, If we're in a, You know, If we're arguing, Right? If we reframe that whole event and go, Okay, What's the overall, What's our overall goal as parents? It's hard to do it in the moment. Don't get me wrong. Apparently it's, It's good to look at it as a teaching opportunity. Well, Not even, Not even this one. It's my goal to win this argument. Like it's you and me. If we, If we have a dis- A four year old against a four year old. Fine. But even, Even against quote unquote you, Right? If we have a disagreement- Yeah, No, That's a terrible way to look at it. It's not, My goal isn't to win and like be ha ha ha. I won that argument. We're meant to be a team. Yeah. It's like, It's like, It's like, Yeah, Okay, We had a disagreement, But like, Okay, You might be, You might have, And I know that I have, It's like, Okay, I've got to win this argument. Hang on, Let's step back. No, That's not actually- Do I have to have, Yeah. Yeah. Do I have to have the argument? Do I have to, Is winning, What, What is truly winning here? Isn't winning a longterm successful relationship where we've talked it through and developed, You know. Yeah, And like better communication or something like that. Better understanding of each other rather than winning. This, This whole thing sort of fascinates me and it's sort of like, You know, My mind's now going down into this sort of like politics thing where it's sort of like us versus them. You're either with me or you're against me. It's sort of like, Well, There's no nuance. You know, I'd love, I'd love if, If people would have political discussions that are far more nuanced than this sort of soundbite click-baity rah-rah-rah-rah. No, No, It's such a- I feel, I feel like we're, We're drifting from the topic a little bit. Yes. But, But the, I suppose, I suppose what I want to sort of leave it before we play the abundance mentality episode on the calm birth and the birthing experience is just to the benefit of sort of just reframing things. Yeah, Like sometimes you think you're in a dead end or you think something's hopeless or you know, You, You're like, Oh my God, There's no way I can, Um, Fix this or deal with this situation. But then if you actually step back and just observe and try and reframe it, You actually like, Oh, Hang on. Is that kind of what you mean? Like, Like if you're like, You do lose your job and you're like, This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, But then you're like, Hang on a second. Yes, But just, Just to be open, Like obviously, You know, Some things are bad. Yeah. And I'm not saying like, You know, Losing your job, Breaking up, Pain is bad, Right? But it's just, It's considering that there might be something different to consider. Yes. Is, Is the goal to get the new car or is it to pursue your values? One of my guiding things that I'm really leaning into is, Is to push for my values. What do I want from life? My like money's great and I like having money and I want more money, Right? But do I want a brand new car right now or would I prefer to instead spend that same money as time with my family? Would I prefer to instead spend that same money as an investment to write a book? I don't have to go for what society says I should go for. Yeah. I don't have to, I can reframe things, I can look at things, I can question things. So how do you then. . . What is success? Let's reframe what success is. How can I put this? How do you do that in your brain? I think it's, It's being open-minded. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm reading Dracula at the moment, Listening to it and the way the character Van Helsing is introduced, Another character, I think it's, I can't remember the name of the other character, Anyway, A name that's not as memorable as Van Helsing, Um, Introduced this Dr. Van Helsing and basically describing him as this, You know, You know, Strong, Strong mind, A strong-willed person, But his mind is like completely open, Like absolutely 100% free. Oh wow. And the character, Like, It makes you, The impression of that character you get is that he's, You know, He's trying to solve this, This lady's dying from being bitten by a vampire, Right? So he's like, You know, He sees this lady that's, You know, All these weird symptoms, But his mind's open. Okay. So he's free. He, You get this impression that this character is sort of, He's not looking at things the way that a traditional mind would. A traditional doctor would look at this and go, Well, Let's slot you into this hole. Yeah. I suppose the real world example would be is if you see a expert on, You know, A ADHD expert, Let's say our son starts acting up and we go to an ADHD expert. Yeah. He's probably going to have ADHD, Isn't he? If you're a hammer everyone's a nail. Exactly. Right. So it's sort of like. . . So how do you not be that? Well, It's just, I think it's be aware. Like I went to a, I had an issue with my arm, I went to a surgery, I went to a surgeon to get it scanned and I asked him, The surgeon, And this is like a, You know, A world-class surgeon, Right? Yeah, Yeah. Treating, You know, Professional athletes. And I said like, You know, If, Is it possible that this pain will go away through stretching and rehab and all of that sort of stuff? And he said, No, You'll need surgery, Otherwise you'll be in pain for the rest of your life. Right. And I'm like, Okay. Yeah. And then I realised, I'm like, Okay, It's in your best interest. Like, This is what I thought. Like I'm very sceptical. Yeah. Okay. It's in your best interest to say that. You might be right, But let's look at some other options. Let's try it. Because like, I'm not just going to accept your word because I also knew that if I go down the surgery route, You're more likely to get future surgeries. It's just a thing. You get the rehab and blah, Blah, Blah. Yeah. There's a whole variety of issues there. You start the rollercoaster. Yeah. And then I did the rehab and I still do it. I still have a bit of pain, Far less than I had. And I'm like. . . Tension. You've got tension. Yeah, I've got tension. But it's sort of like reframing it and re-looking at it and just. . . I think it's being sceptical. And you sort of almost changed the way you use your shoulders a little bit, Didn't you? You're sort of like gentler with them than you used to be. No, Not really. It's more just, I think, Like it's because the shoulders isn't like. . . It's sort of still circling. We're still circling around this concept, Right? Yeah. I think it's about being sceptical and being mindful and about being looking. . . Not just accepting things the first thing that pops into your brain. Yeah, Like taking that break or breath and just. . . Mindfulness, I suppose, Is the. . . . . . Allowing different options to pop up. Yeah. Okay. So, I got one for you, Right? What does anger. . . What is anger? What is sorrow? What is happiness, Right? Because the mindful approach will be to look at those feelings, Those emotions, And just feel them. Yes. Not. . . Like, The next time you feel an emotion, The next time. . . I do this a lot and I'll finish this with a bit of a story. But when you feel an emotion, Any emotion, Any physical sensation, Anything, It's an opportunity to investigate what it is. And the goal is to not look at it for. . . Not look at it as, Oh, It's anger. It's to go, Well, What does that anger feel like? And there's a whole few chapters in the meditation book that I'm writing on this topic because it's a very good skill. But it's like, Okay, What does anger actually feel like? Where does that feeling locate it? Okay, It's body tension. It's a feeling of heat. It's a clenching of the jaw. It's. . . See, I'm deconstructing what anger is. So then, Rather than feeling anger, Quote unquote, I'm now feeling a collection of symptoms altogether. And then your thoughts start going at the same time. Oh, This person made me angry. This made me angry. So then it's seeing those thoughts. Yes, Exactly. Right. And nobody made you angry. You made yourself angry. Sort of. Yeah, Like that too. Like taking responsibility, I guess, For your own feelings. Like they did, But it's also, But also, You know, Your own brain did. We're approaching this from multiple perspectives because you're looking at it from the cognitive perspective. But you can mindfully approach those thoughts as well. Yeah, Yeah. And observe that. I'll get on, We'll go back to what you're saying, But just to tie this up, Anger presents itself, Or any emotion, But using anger presents itself as a collection of physiological and psychological symptoms, Phenomena. Yes. A collection of phenomena, Right? If you look at emotions as a collection of interconnected phenomena that appear together, That sounds a lot easier to manage than grief, Right, Sorrow. It's like this is a collection of physical and mental phenomena. Now, They're overwhelming, They're strong, But the strength is just another thing to observe. Those thoughts, Right, That are popping up. Just observe them as well. They're just another thing to pop up. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I agree. So try this. Where does the next thought that you have go? Just watch it go, Right? You can hold onto it, But if you actually want, Like if you actually just sit there and think in silence, It's going to disappear. Yeah, Just wafts away. It just goes. Yeah. But that's what's actually happening, Right? Yeah, And the same with the anger as well. Yeah, That's the reality. Just wafts away as well, Yeah. Which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it, Right? It's like, Okay, So I observe and I look at my emotionality and it just disappears. Yeah, But if you try to block it, It gets worse. Yeah, So it's reframing what it means to be highly emotional. Yeah. Looking at things, For me, Everything comes back to meditation, Which once again, While I'm writing a book, Right? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. So, Reframing things can certainly help. Oh, Absolutely. Yeah, There's just so many of these different things that we can approach. Opportunities to do that. Do you have any parting thoughts before we put it onto the abundance episode? No, I think you said it all. So, Just about the abundance mentality before we get into it. They're 20-minute episodes on health, Wealth, Spirituality, Or relationships. We've got to think six or seven episodes up and we'll intermittently be putting more up. The idea is that we're taking a book or a collection of books or, In this case, Karmbo, Which is like a program that we're both connected with or one of us is connected with and just extrapolating a lesson from it, I suppose. Because there's so many different things that you could take, But it's like, Let's drill down hard upon something and get those nuggets of wisdom out. Yeah, That's right. You may as well get some more benefit from those things. It means that you might either, If you listen to that podcast, You'll get the lessons, The core lessons that we've got. It might be an inspiration to read that book or participate in that course or whatever it is. But it's like a way to, I don't know, Just drill down and find that core learning. Because it's very easy to just read self-help books or read books in general and just sort of just forgetting everything. It's like a way for us to relearn them and to pass that knowledge on and to really just dive down. So I'm quite enjoying it. I suppose what you'll hear now is the most recent episode as it will go up and you'll see it. You'll still get, This is the ongoing joke across all of the podcasts that we have, Particularly the Motherland podcast, Which we didn't do at the last episode, Is to highlight the fact that you are not on social media and you're yet to still start on that. So the only way you can get more of Maria is to listen to the abundance mentality or listen to the Motherland podcast or the random episodes she appears to be. So anyway, Without further ado, We'll put on the abundance mentality on Calm Birth. Cheers. Cheers. Welcome to the abundance mentality. 20 minute snippets to improve your health, Wealth, Spirituality and relationships. I'm Zach. And I'm Maria. So we've recently had our second child. Childbirth. Yay. So we had an amazing positive birth experience, Which we'll get into, But the resource that we want to talk about today is Calm Birth. And this isn't necessarily a book. It's like a system. There's a book involved. It's a whole process. But basically what it seems from our experiences and from talking to the midwives and going through the program are that the majority of people that use Calm Birth have significantly more positive birth experiences, Need a lot less interventions, And it's just a better experience for mum, Baby, Hospital, Dad, Everyone involved. Yeah, Less trauma as well. Less trauma. And I want to take it beyond just the birth experience because I see benefits from this program in everyday life. Absolutely. Having gone through this twice now, We used Calm Birth twice, It's repeatedly taught me the value of meditation, Of calm breathing, Of visualisation and of education. Yes. And that's really the sort of key components of Calm Birth. They – and, Like, We'll get into the birthing experience, But basically in the lead-up to the birth experience, There's a bunch of guided meditations that will, You know, With visual imagery, Talk both the birthing mother and the support person, Which in this case was me, Through what was going to happen, Giving us education so we're not surprised, And giving us calm breathing for lack of a better expression. And then during the birth experience, My job was to basically remind you to be calm, That you can do anything for one minute when the contractions are coming, And to just check back into that mental state that you trained over and over and over again. And so, Before we get into it, It's just – it's sort of shown me the value of practice and guided meditations because it's like – it's repeated priming. It's this whole sort of thing that really helped to reframe what birthing is because there's that sorority of pain. Everyone – you know, You say that you're – you know, I say to them, Like, Oh, We're having a baby, And all the dads are like, Think about all the bad stuff, And all the women are like, This terrible birth experience happened to me, And everyone's saying how painful it is and how traumatic it is and all this sort of stuff, And you're like, Oh, My God. And the Calm Birth helped to just acknowledge that that's a potential – to reframe it down the positive thing, And I think that's abundance if there's anything else like that. Oh, Yeah. It's beautiful. So yeah, Please do share. How did you find the birth experience using the Calm Birth? And then maybe we can apply it more globally. Yeah. So, I used it for my first four years ago. So, When I first found out I was pregnant, I was terrified of childbirth, As everyone is. And I just happened to be working at a health clinic, And there just happened to be this woman there that taught Calm Birth. And so, We were like, Let's do the class just to see what it is. And then we just showed up that day, And it was just suddenly just so eye-opening because it's like, We're going to prepare you to have a wonderful birth, Not a traumatic birth. And I didn't know if I should believe it at the time because it's just such a new concept. But we tried it, And it really worked, And it's happened again the second time. So, They got me basically. . . Yeah, They do the education, Like you said. So, They teach you exactly everything that's going to happen in the birth so that you're not surprised by anything. And then they teach you to meditate basically, But kind of focusing on. . . It's not mindfulness. It's more like a relaxation meditation more so. Yeah. And then it's like guided, But then there's like this element of practicing the birth. So, Your brain is like getting primed, But you're practicing a very positive and the most perfect amazing birth, Joyful, Calm. But then they also. . . And then you have to do it every day, And then they get you to do slow breathing, Which teaches you. . . It's like a relaxation response, Which is the opposite of the fight-flight. It's like teaching your body to go into a relaxation mode, And you have to practice it every day. And so that on the day, You're super calm, And you know how to breathe, And your body's full of oxygen because you're breathing. Yeah, It's really empowering. So, We did it for the first, And then we've just done it for the second. Do you want me to go into the second birth? Just give the. . . I suppose the highlights in my end watching you do it was the speed of the birth, The calmness of the birth, And the minimal use of pain relief. You only needed to use a TENS machine and then the breathing gas towards the end. And it was very quick. It was quick. Yeah, I had a 14-minute pushing stage, And with my first I only had an 8-minute pushing stage. Maybe a little bit too fast, But that's okay. Get it out, Right? Get it out. Yeah, It does. . . It sort of taught me to relax into the contraction and instead of fighting it, And this is a huge part of calm birth, It's like instead of fighting it, You relax into it, But then that allows your body to actually get the baby out. The midwife that we had for our second, I think she was calm birth trained, Or she was like very much, She was basically saying, Let's breathe this baby out. And one of the reframing things that it did was sort of highlight that we're an animal, And that animals give birth all the time, And they give birth, And then mother and baby just get up and they're off their gut, And they're back surviving, Because that's what matters. Whereas we humans have this artifice put over everything that, Like, You know, Block the world off from pain, Block the world off from reality, And it's sort of like, You know, Like we live a very shielded, And particularly in the West, This very shielded view of reality. It's sort of like whitewashed, And it's like, There's this traumatic birth thing, But we don't really want to talk about it, Let's look away from it. The same thing that we have with death, The same thing we have with pain, It's like it's terrifying, Right? But like, Completely on a different level, I was doing some martial arts training and I dislocated my finger, My ring finger was pointing literally the wrong way. But because I'd meditated and because I wasn't, Like, I didn't freak out, It didn't quite impact me the way that I'd seen other people be impacted by stuff. You didn't panic about it. I didn't panic, And it's like, Yeah, This happened. But it's sort of like, You can reframe pain, You can reframe things, Which calm birth sort of helped. Yeah, Calm birth is like, It's a type of hypno-birth thing, Which is, It's not really hypnosis, It's more meditation, But it's like a birth class. It just teaches you, Yeah, Like, They don't call it pain, They call it like, Waves and tension. Tension. Yeah, And even if you are in pain, It's like, You don't have to panic about it, You can just be in pain for that minute. Yes. Breathe. You can do anything for one minute. It'll be over. It'll be over. I remember that was one of the key phrases, Like, So this is one of the benefits that I had, They basically said as a husband, Or as a partner, As a birthing partner, My job is to be the solid rock. Yeah. Because you're there freaking out a little bit, And you're doubtful, And you're mood is in. You're vulnerable. Yeah, You're vulnerable, And you're like triggering off the people around you. Yeah. And I'm there just speaking right in your ear. Yeah. You're doing fine, Slow breathing, Take slow calm breaths, And when a contraction came, You can do anything for one minute. Yeah. And I remember, Distinctly remember, You looked at me like, I can do anything for one minute, And then you were just, You're just back into this calm state. I was able to, Even though, Like the pushing hurt, I was able to focus and be calm. 100%. Peaceful through it. I mean, Like, You know, You make your noises and you do your stuff, But it's not, You're not then also adding panic and anxiety on top of it. I saw this quite one time, I don't know if it's like a meditation or a Buddha, I can't remember, But it's like, If you, If you stub your toe or if you hurt yourself, That's the first pain, But then a second pain is that suffering, You're remembering it, Panic that you add to it, Or the anxiety that you, Then you're scared of the pain. So then you're actually suffering twice. Yes. It's almost like the calm birth stripped that second one away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you would definitely say that it's a bit had a better good impact on the birth. I think our birth has, Was the single best tool we had. 100%. I remember with the birth of our first son, The, The midwife highlighted the fact that you, You, You were very, You were almost so calm that they didn't think you were going into labour. And then they, They, They said to us, We said like, We've done calm birth and they said like, Oh, And it sort of made sense to them. Oh, That's calm birth girls. Yeah. It was sort of like this, Like, Oh, You know, And it was sort of like, And I was thinking like, Why doesn't, Why isn't this more widely known? Why doesn't everybody do this? So let's, Let's, Let's take this extrapolate this to non-birthing. Yeah. Since the birth of your first, The first, Our first son and now I suppose afterwards, Have you applied these skills in other areas in every way? How, How so I give, Give some other ways. Cause like, I'm not like, You know, If you're a guy listening to this or if you've not had a kid or whatever, Obviously you're not going to go like, Hey, Do some calm birth, But you education, Um, Breath work, Visualisation, Meditation, Practice. Right. Those are things that will help like, Please. Well, I didn't use to meditate before my first child. I would do fun little meditations here and there. And I did pray cause I had a childhood of Christianity, I guess. So I, You know, Sometimes would, Um, Do a bit of prayer or do a bit of fun meditation, But I never had a solid practice. Um, I just didn't understand why you needed to do it every day. Um, And I also didn't realise how empowering it was, But then doing that calm birth and then actually getting, Having this, I guess, Empowering birth experience. Um, After the birth of my first child, I was like, Okay, What else can this skill do? And then it, It helped me to actually have faith in doing meditation. Um, And what has meditation given you? Well, It's yeah, Everything. It's amazing. It, It, What has it given me? I don't know. I am focusing the ability to answer questions. Well, Um, I, I'm in the process of writing a mindfulness meditation book and I find that it's like meditation for me, Mindfulness meditation, Which isn't this visualisation stuff. I'll go into that. But mindfulness meditation helps me to improve my calm clarity and focus. It helps to strip away a lot of the, The mental sort of ruminations and anguish and sort of societal implications and all this other stuff and strip it down to the bare realities of what's actually happening. So like you might be in pain emotionally or physically, But if you can just pull it away and actually feel what that's feeling like, It's not as bad. You're only experiencing it once, Not twice. Yeah, That's right. And it's sort of like the empowering part of like, Oh, If I feel something, Whether it's pain or whether it's emotional pain or something's happening, I actually do have power to do something about it. I don't have to be this at the mercy of it. I don't have to be like, Oh, I'm scared of this thing. Oh, Well too bad. Now I'm scared of it. Like I'm just going to be scared of it forever. I can actually do something. And the combat sort of set me on that path, But you can use visualisation for goal setting. I use it now every day. If I want something, I'll visualise it. And I just know that if you, There's a lot of stuff you can read about, Like if you visualise something, You can actually achieve it. I would like to dig down on that because I'm not one for the woo woo, The secret prayer sort of like, If I visualise it, It'll magically come. I don't know if it's that. Because I'll say it's certainly not that. Like I look at all that, That sort of like manifestation stuff and I'm very sceptical. But it's primary. Like if you even put all the manifesting stuff out of it and put the woo woo out of it, Like in the birth, Like if you visualise the birth every day and then you have a wonderful birth, That wonderful birth didn't just appear out of nowhere. And if I had been in my previous mental state before come birth, I would have been in a panic. Well, If we take it away from the birth and just do it to that typical woo woo manifestation sort of thing, What I think happens is that, Like let's say I want to become a best-selling author, Which I do. It allows me, If I'm thinking about that best-selling author, Best-selling author, I'm thinking over and over, Then when an opportunity pops up, I'm more primed to say yes to that opportunity. So it's like, Like I said, I'm writing a meditation book right now. That came about because I did an insight timer meditation course, Which came about because you found someone on, You found a meditation lady and you're like, Oh, Hey, Zach, You should check this out. She used insight timer. She's like, Oh, She's on insight timer. So because I've been thinking about best-selling author, I was like, Oh, That insight timer could be a good idea for me. Exactly. Oh, I've written, Done and studied a whole bunch of meditation. I could teach that. So I did, Oh, I've now done all this pre-work and I want to be an author. I am an author, So I might write that book. So it's like, So it's like the fact that I'm manifesting or thinking about this and visualising it. I saw that opportunity where once again, If I wasn't doing any of that thought, I would have been like, Oh, Cool. Like, I don't like, Cool. You found someone on a, You got someone to listen to on meditation. Great. But now I'm primed to take that action, Say yes to it. Absolutely. And you're priming yourself talk as well. Like if you're studying. Like internal, Like, Like. Yeah. Like how you speak to yourself in your head and you're almost giving yourself more confidence. I think like say, Say I was doing study and I wanted to finish to get a degree, But part of me was like, I'm never going to finish this. I can't cope with study. I'm no good at this, But I kept visualising myself actually getting the degree. Then every time I have to submit an assignment, I'm visualising myself getting the degree. I'm like, I have to actually finish this stupid assignment. I have to finish it. Whereas if I keep thinking I can't do it, I can't do it. I might think, Well, I'm not even going to finish it because I'm not. Yeah. So you're sort of, And it goes on a roll. Like you do one and then the next time you, You know, It's stronger and it's stronger and it's stronger. I like the idea of repetition and visualisation. I've, I've learned through this, Um, To apply it to my martial arts. First of all, Drills get the skills. The more you repeat something physically, The better you get. But the more you visualise doing that same repetition, You're still training your brain. So I'll picture the moves in my mind when I'm not training and then I'm can, You know, Then I can actually do them better when I am training. And it's like, And then I'm also calmly breathing when I'm grappling with someone, I'm listening to their breath and I can hear their breath go. So I know they're about to do a move. When they take a big breath or something. Yeah. And then I can put counterforce in and apply it appropriately. Whereas if I wasn't thinking about the breath, I'll be far less, Uh, I would have far less stamina myself and I'd be far more tells. Whereas what I'm trying to be is super calm, Super observant and, You know, Just taking advantage of that. And, You know, When I am under pressure, Both in that, You know, Martial arts state, But also just in real life, It's like, I can just take that calm breath, Calm, A calm body equals a calm mind. And you have to practise that, Don't you? 100%. In meditation. Yeah. I just, I just had a psychologist session and one of the parts of the, The first thing she'd said to do in response to a sequence of events was basically take a bunch of slow calm breaths because you calm your body. You calm your mind. That expression is so overused, But underrated so underrated before I had like literally before I did come birth and then consequently had a kid. Every time somebody said that I heard that I'd be like, Oh, How is that going to fricking help me? And how often did you actually try it? Never, Ever, Ever. But now that with the calm birth and with, Um, You know, You're going to go into childbirth, You can't stop that. So you've got this time limit. So you're like, I'm going to practise anything I can. It's gonna happen. Yeah. So it made me practise the slow breathing and that the really amazing thing is it's, Yeah, It's just like relaxation response where you actually like teaching your body instead of going into panic mode, It's actually going to go into calm mode if something happens and you use it in the birth. But then, You know, You've got this cause I've been using them for anything. Like if the baby's crying, I start taking slow breaths and calm myself. When I'm hugging him, If I do some slow calm breaths, He, He almost checks in. He's like, We both calm down together. And my preschool now, Even when he was a toddler preschool and now, And we've been able to teach him as well, You'll see him going, It's one of the things when he, When he hurts himself and you're not around, I give him the skills to self soothe. I'm just like, Let's take a couple of slow calm breaths. It takes him a little while to get into it. But he's like, Like he goes, He goes through it and it helps. He's angry. He does it now as well. So, So let's um, We're coming up on time, So let's just, Um, Go into the take action. Okay. Well, I guess practice, Try, Try the dry sitting for five minutes and just, You can breathe in for a count of four and then breathe out for a count of six and it's sort of, But you do that for five whole minutes. It sounds like a long time, But by the end of it, You'll be so chilled and calm. Yeah. And it resets your emotions. It's a really good one. Like when you're panicking or feeling really upset. So, So five minutes of slow, Calm breathing, I suggest to like try it now, But potentially try it in bed before, Before you're about to go to sleep. It's a great way to calm yourself down after a long stressful day or just in general. And just have patience with it. You get impatient when you first start doing it. I can't do this for five minutes, But just keep practicing that tension that you projected then is so true. Any sort of meditation, That feeling is something to just work through and process. You can do it for five minutes. What's the worst that can happen? Like you get bored. Okay. Lean into the board. All right, Cool. So it's time for you guys to take action for us to read another book or do another program, I guess. Cheers.