Searching For The Diamond (What is Now? Podcast)

Why do we really want what we want? Saqib and Charles explore the root source of all that we desire in life. Each of these sessions begins with one minute of silence followed by an unplanned interpersonal exploration of the present moment and finishes with a short guided meditation based on the themes of the session.

Transcript

Welcome to the What Is Now experience.

We begin with one minute of silence,

And then explore whatever arises.

So please join us for this one minute of doing nothing.

We begin with one minute of silence.

I think for the listener,

If they don't have the context,

So we are like having a video call right now.

And I can see you smiling.

That smile has something to it,

You know,

Looking at each other and maybe,

You know,

Kind of,

I don't know what's going on in your mind right now.

But for me,

It's like,

Okay,

Who asks the question?

How was your experience?

Maybe that kind of look for me that it was that what was for you.

That was a skillful transcendence of giving in to what was funny about that,

If that makes sense.

Because I had a similar experience to,

Because we've talked about it too.

The finishing the two minute period of time.

And then there's,

You know,

Someone is going to break the silence generally with the question of,

How was that for you?

Then you just did a nice move of commenting on that.

And the specific flavor of how it was happening this time of like smiling and interesting house.

There's so much being communicated to I was just thinking as you were describing that I was just thinking of this,

A very full conversation happening between us without actually words.

Yeah,

Just happening in that in that period of time.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah,

I think we are getting to this point of having a nonverbal communication with that smile.

And I think you this smile has something to it,

You know,

It's like,

A lot of times you when you are close with someone and you look at them,

And when you understand them,

You sometimes you just communicate with a smile,

You know,

For example,

Something happens in the external environment,

For example,

Someone does something funny.

And then you just look at the other person and you know that,

You know,

You are kind of thinking about the same thing.

Smile in that way.

So it has a beauty to it.

An acknowledgement of some shared knowing.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That maybe doesn't have to be put in towards.

Yeah,

That's true.

So but,

But now to begin with the question,

So how was your experience?

I just was just thinking to how fun and this actually relates to my experience in the two minutes,

But how,

How fun of a I think,

If not for intentionally thinking about this or trying to do this,

It might not even feel like an option in communication.

But how fun it is to like,

Just notice your experience in the moment and put it into words,

Like try to put it into words versus a communication that's more just kind of back and forth transactional and fits a familiar pattern.

Because this this other way,

It's,

It's always new.

And you're just sort of stopping and becoming aware of what's happening in the moment and then putting that into words.

And there's always something like I could stop talking right now and pause and sort of become aware of what's happening in the moment and have something to share or to say or to ask that's like,

That's new.

And it's just really,

It's very exciting to me,

I was noticing a feeling of excitement as you started saying something that wasn't.

How was your experience?

Not that there'd be anything wrong with that.

But I was like,

Oh,

Where's,

Where's this going?

Like,

This feels alive.

In a way that's fun,

Which relates to what my experience was like.

Because I noticed,

I noticed initially,

It's been,

I think,

More than a week or maybe a couple weeks since we've done this.

And I was noticing the feeling of this is really cool to have the chance to do this kind of thing with anyone and with you in particular.

But maybe how rare it is to have a dedicated time to sit down with someone,

Stop everything,

Spend a moment trying to let go of everything,

And then just,

And then just relate in the moment.

It's like,

Very special and almost kind of sacred thing.

I think,

And so I was sort of thinking about that and then I had a vision of you and me sort of,

Like,

Almost like in a spaceship just sort of shooting into what feels like now,

You know,

Like this exploration and it felt like going down.

But then I felt it was like stars kind of passing by.

And just on this,

This voyage.

That's what my experience was like.

I think it's so funny that,

You know,

As soon as you started saying that and even before you mentioned the spaceship thing,

I had a visual,

You know,

In my mind and my visual was that,

You know,

It's like,

We are digging the now,

You know,

We are doing kind of a digging so like we are kind of,

You know,

In a forest enjoying our time together and,

You know,

Having certain,

You know,

Things,

Certain materials with us,

Certain treasure with us,

But it's like when we get bored and saturated of that treasure which we already have,

We start some new digging.

And you know we start digging for new treasure so this,

You know,

This analogy this visual came to my mind that we are digging for this new treasure that would come up from this moment.

What do you see when you think of the treasure?

I see,

Like,

Like deep insights.

Something which is like a part of the field.

Maybe not not not a manifestation into the physical reality,

But which is which is somewhere in the field.

You know,

Whatever we can call that field you know the collective consciousness or the collective unconscious whatever we call that.

But it's like an idea that is maybe already there.

But somewhere in the field but we kind of bring it into manifestation,

Which,

Which might not have been there before so for example,

You know if I think in terms of literal treasure,

Like going down into the ocean and finding a record ship and you know,

Finding treasure inside that and bringing it up to the earth.

So that treasure was there somewhere but it was not out on onto the surface you know and it was not out into the world.

So,

That is what I can feel but that also like brings a question to my mind is that is this treasure like are these ideas and thoughts and insights that we get during this,

You know,

Conversation or exploration or digging whatever you want to call it.

Is it like already there somewhere or is it something new that has been created.

It just made me think of,

I think I've mentioned this term before but the idea of the compost heap.

I think you didn't care but I don't remember.

In this master class with Neil Gaiman,

Author,

He was talking about this notion of the compost heap,

That everything that you absorb your whole life from experiences,

Books,

Conversations,

Whatever.

It's all adding to this compost heap inside you and,

And sort of evolving and if you're open to it can manifest as something,

Quote unquote new,

But it's really just a metamorphosis of kind of all these things that that are in existence and have an existence already,

But they can manifest through you in a sort of new way.

Here in this moment,

And that,

If not for our interaction.

You wouldn't be able to come up with something on your own and I wouldn't be able to come up with something on my own in the same way that the two of us together will come up with it,

I think if we're both open to it.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Something I was thinking about with the digging.

Some element of it maybe we're blindfolded or there's some effort,

While digging,

Where of like giving up of looking for something.

Like,

I'm digging and at the same time.

I'm not tied to,

Like I'm continually letting go of,

Of the intention of digging,

If that makes sense.

Yes,

Yes,

Absolutely.

So what you're saying is basically whatever is arising is automatically arising and not coming from effort.

Something like that.

So maybe something like,

Let's say,

You know,

We,

If the analogy that comes to my mind is,

Let's say we are in a place where,

You know,

We are told that there is treasure,

For example.

And now we have two options in our hands.

One is we dig different places and,

You know,

We might spend many,

Many days or months trying to find the treasure.

So that is kind of a digging with effort.

But when we maybe just connect to our intuition or feeling about where the treasure is,

You know,

By just being in the moment.

So maybe a feeling would arise that will bring us to the treasure and that,

You know,

Our connection with the treasure,

Our ability to find the treasure will be kind of this automatic guidance,

This automatic thing,

Rather than digging up the entire place.

Does that make me wonder if,

Along with that,

There's some new awareness that comes up of even what the treasure is.

It's like you see the treasure differently than you had seen it before,

Because so to be looking for treasure,

That must mean that you have some,

It implies there's some idea of what it is that you're going to find.

And potentially,

Like the finding of the quote unquote treasure might be related to letting go of that.

And then and then the treasure reveals itself to you in this way that you couldn't have anticipated.

But at the same time,

You acknowledge it like,

You know that it's the treasure.

There is some knowing but it's like a unspoken or unsaid knowing versus like,

I'm looking for this insight related to transcending the ego.

Yeah,

I'm going to go find it and there maybe I'm blocking myself from the actual felt insight of it,

Which if I could only get out of the way of trying to search for it,

Then I would like I would know it.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Like,

I don't know if this fits analogy for 10 but what what I can make sense of what you're saying is that,

Let's say for example we are digging up for diamond.

Okay,

So I we have,

We have this idea in our mind that diamonds have like they are they make great jewelry.

So that's why we are digging up for them.

But maybe,

You know,

And we have this preconceived idea in our mind that diamonds are for jewelry so when we find those diamonds we can only use them as jewelry.

But maybe what we find is something that looks like diamond,

But also has many of the benefits which we are not aware of.

So but if we are open to kind of not giving this notion to diamonds,

You know,

These items that this is just for jewelry.

And if we are just open to what they can provide to us,

Then they can maybe give us a lot of other benefits maybe they can be a substance that can provide energy for example,

Just taking an example here.

That just gave me a thought of,

Makes me think of people pursuing things in life,

Success or happiness,

Or whatever it might be,

And could maybe represent that as the diamond.

And even if they get that thing or if you achieve that thing,

You might still be attached to what your initial thought of,

Like,

What the diamond was,

And maybe there is this like this deep version of you that knows that it has all of these,

All of these benefits,

But you're still maybe attached to that more surface version that just wants it for this particular reason,

Maybe deeply the reason you want it is because of you're aware of everything that it can provide for you but that's on maybe not maybe a level of clarified awareness.

So you still have you have this thing you're wearing it you're wearing that,

You know,

Diamond on your finger or in your ears or whatever it might be.

And so you have it like you have this powerful thing.

And at the same time,

And that might even feel worse because why I got it,

And now I don't have it.

Like I don't have that feeling,

I guess,

That I was looking for this whole time.

Yeah.

Yeah,

It seems to me like,

Oh go ahead.

Yeah,

Like it was just saying that maybe just being unaware of the many other potential benefits because we are like conditioned,

You know,

To believe that this diamond,

And still I'm floating in the analogy,

You know,

That the diamond is just for jewelry.

So it is like a conditioned thought,

You know,

It is like this idea that diamond is a jewelry.

Where is it coming from?

It's coming from the social conditioning because I have seen other people wearing diamonds.

So I have this idea just consider for consider a situation where I discovered a diamond,

You know,

I'm digging the earth,

I discovered a diamond,

If I don't even know what you know this is used for.

Now,

It will have two outcomes,

Either this thing is totally useless to me because,

You know,

I don't know what it is used for.

Or this thing can be anything for me,

Everything for me,

You know,

It might,

I might then discover many other benefits,

Maybe it is,

You know,

Just a hypothetical situation that maybe it can light up a city,

It has so much energy in it.

So,

Like,

I'm trying to relate that to our discovery,

Or,

You know,

The insights that we get in our situations.

So what I feel is,

You know,

What I can relate this to is that if I am conditioned in some way,

So for example,

If I'm conditioned,

Even in terms of spirituality,

Let's say,

Or God or the idea of God.

So if I'm discovering an insight within me,

And if that insight is,

You know,

Saying that,

Oh,

That,

You know,

You are loved.

Let's say that is the insight that is coming to me.

If I'm conditioned with,

For example,

Religion or anything,

My outcome of that will be,

Okay,

I'm loved by God.

But if if I have no conditioning around that,

Then this thought might have different meaning this,

This insight that I got that I'm loved will have different meanings to me.

I can be loved by some other entity,

Not necessarily God,

You know,

Maybe a departed soul.

I can be loved by just maybe mother,

Like Earth,

Or I can be loved by myself,

You know,

Or I am love itself,

Or I am God.

So it can have like,

It depends upon how open we are to the interpretation of the inside that we get,

You know,

More than how it how it how attached to is,

How attached is it to sort of like conditioned?

Yeah,

Context stuff,

And how open is it to?

Or maybe I'm imposing this,

But I'm thinking how open is it to exploring it in the moment?

Like,

Just what does it feel like?

What's the you have all this context is your history and your learning and and you can use that and then also check it against just a personalized understanding of this thing.

Now,

In this moment.

But so easy to get wrapped up in that first one,

It makes me think of what maybe what you and I,

Or you can tell me if you agree with this book,

Seems maybe a lot of what we're both doing in our work together here with individuals in all the different contexts is like,

Trying to go back to the origin of Well,

Why do you want?

Really,

Why do you want the jewelry?

Why do you want the because there,

We might just take that as such a given of I want it.

So help me figure out how to get it.

But then it's just seems so important to have such a clear understanding of why is it that you want that?

What makes you unfulfilled without this thing?

Not to say that you shouldn't search for it,

Or you shouldn't want that.

But it seems really important that we understand as clearly as possible,

Why you want this thing.

And then maybe through that there's sort of a whole breakdown of the notion of,

Like the condition notion of what jewelry is and what it gets for you that you can move back to a place.

And now I'm losing the ability to articulate it.

But and maybe that goes along with the message,

You just come to a place that just is openness.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah,

No,

I'm totally getting what you're saying,

You know,

The,

Like,

This whole idea around,

Like,

I want that I want that diamond or anything,

You know,

The,

The motivation behind it,

Where is that coming from?

You know,

Understanding that.

So that will give us very a deeper insight into what drives this person or what affects this person or what is the conditioning here?

Yeah,

Those can be hard questions to answer.

And maybe that never ends.

So it could feel like this potentially overwhelming process of like,

Well,

I don't necessarily want to question that,

Because then that,

Then I might question the thing below that,

And then I might question everything.

And there's potentially a shift where they're,

Where that just becomes fun.

And might let go of any idea of getting to the point where,

Okay,

Now I understand everything.

But more of just,

Okay,

It's,

It's safe to ask this question.

There's,

There's no fear of,

Well,

If I ask,

I might find out something I don't like.

But like,

Well,

You can keep asking.

Just keep exploring.

And it already is what it is.

So what's the point of not knowing?

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah,

I think something on the same line that I would like love to,

You know,

Discuss in the next in our next meeting is,

I don't know if that naturally comes up or not.

But,

You know,

Something I'm curious towards discussing with you is,

Then how language plays a role in this,

Like how,

How the way language conditions plays a role in this,

You know,

Because the the idea of this,

This diamond and having,

You know,

What we discussed around having conditioning around what diamond does,

Is something very core to the idea of how we experience reality,

The way language conditions us.

So,

You know,

Just before we end,

Just a short example is that the people who have near death experiences,

They have different kinds of experience,

It is found that they have different kinds of experiences,

Depending upon how they have been conditioned.

So in someone in their near death experience,

Will meet God,

Someone in their near death experience will meet Jesus,

Someone in their near death experience will meet Shiva,

You know,

Or just someone will have a very spiritual sort of expanding experience.

So I think that also depends upon how the person is expecting to have that experience or is conditioned,

You know,

Which affects their experience.

And this fit into their existing framework.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And this,

This,

I think,

This brings us to the question that how significantly can language create a reality the way the kind of language that we have learned is,

You know,

Is that is the way that language is being used.

Is that is the way that we see the world.

So I think this is something I would like to love to explore with you.

Sounds good.

It feels so central.

It's like so central to everything,

It seems.

Well,

Great.

I can just say that we're needing to end this meeting a bit short,

Because I have an appointment to get to so there won't be a guided meditation portion of it.

But maybe we all can sit with that notion of language.

I know we've touched with it before.

And just kind of move into the rest of the day with that spirit of exploration and going back to the beginning of the question,

Like,

Why do I want the jewelry and it being okay?

Why do I want the diamond and it being okay and interesting and maybe fun to continually ask that question?

Yeah,

Absolutely.

This is food for thought for me for today.

Sounds good.

I'll see you next time.

See you.

Take care.

Namaste.

Reviews

Very insightful, thank you 😊