94. Feeling The Blue: 5 Ways Sadness Can Improve Your Life

This week, Monica and Michael continue their conversation about sadness and unpack more fascinating ways we can use our emotions to learn and grow. Recent studies show that being sad can unlock clarity, generosity, and motivation. Join us for part 2 of Monica and Michael’s illuminating conversation about feeling our feelings.

Transcript

The ego will be always connected to things that are external in the physical world.

And that will create something that feels really sad and lack,

But isn't real versus that internal part of you that's connected to your source and where you've come from.

And it's there to guide us and to really keep us going in the direction we're meant to of growth.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast,

Episode 94.

So last week,

Michael and I unpacked sadness,

But there was so much to say,

We decided to do a second episode on it.

And the world is giving us many reasons to be sad as of late.

So yes,

That's where we're going to go.

I mean,

The news,

There was in Texas where 19 children were killed and two educators were also killed.

And yeah,

I mean,

I just find myself,

Since the news came out,

Just thinking about the parents and the pain,

Unbelievable pain they must be feeling.

So again,

Obviously we speak about things we think are important and relevant and to give tips and tools that will hopefully help all of us,

You know,

And even ways to show up for people who are experiencing extreme sadness.

So if you haven't heard the last episode,

93,

Please listen to that one first and then continue on to this one.

So sadness has value and it does have its place and we're meant to un-finchingly feel the broad range of human emotion.

And I love this quote by Steven Tyler from Aerosmith,

He said,

Every life.

.

.

Yeah,

It's interesting.

I heard that recently he went back to rehab,

He had relapsed.

Really?

Yeah.

How recent?

Like,

You know,

A few weeks ago.

Gosh,

See,

That makes me sad.

What was he addicted to?

I don't know.

Well,

Here's for you,

Steven.

So he quoted,

He said,

Every life has a measure of sorrow and sometimes this is what awakens us.

The key is to feel that emotion and not become the emotion.

So you can be sad,

But that doesn't mean you're a sad person.

And it's a really silly example,

But I think it drives the point home.

You have eyelashes,

For instance,

But you are not eyelashes or you have fat in your body,

But you are not fat.

We tend to think that we are all the most extreme thing we are feeling about ourselves.

If I can just add,

It's a really important point around everything,

Right?

The fact that we can,

And I think sometimes even though we've mentioned this in the past,

It's hard to keep uppermost in our thoughts because it really should be the number one consciousness that we have,

That we are perfect,

Light-filled,

Beautiful beings.

And that there are things that come in and out,

I was going to say into us,

But really around us,

But they are never us.

What we are,

And it's so important,

I know it's sometimes difficult for people to really see themselves in the beautiful perfection that they already are,

And that anything that is coming in is not me,

But it is something that is hovering around me.

But it never,

And I think,

For those who people experience sadness,

It probably is often the overwhelming thought,

Which is,

I am sad.

Well,

Not really,

You're experiencing sadness,

Like you were saying.

You're experiencing that,

And I would say almost viewed as sadness is hovering around me,

But remind yourself all the time,

What am I?

I am this powerful,

Beautiful,

Light-filled being that is,

Right now,

For a purpose,

Sadness is hovering around me.

Yeah,

And I want to go back to that in a little bit when we were talking about how to transform sadness and really unpack what a perfected vessel looks like or the perfected self.

Before we go there,

Though,

I want to stay here a little bit longer,

That there's a very real danger when we start to become whatever it is we're going through versus being who we are while we're going through that sad experience.

And to take it a step further,

You want to be able to allow yourself to be changed for the better through the process.

And I remember the story so distinctly.

It was years ago,

And you and I were out to dinner with a friend,

And this is before we moved to New York,

And we were talking about the move and how we were going back and forth with the idea.

We weren't really sure because there were many steps.

At that time,

We had,

I think,

Just three kids,

And we mentioned Josh,

And we said,

You know,

With this therapy,

We have to set it up.

We have to make sure we get the right support for him in New York.

And our friend turned to us,

And he's like,

Why does Josh need therapy?

What do you mean?

And I looked at him,

And I was like,

You know he has Down syndrome,

Right?

And he's like,

What?

I'm like,

Come on.

He's like,

No.

I said,

I mean,

He wasn't around our family that much,

Really,

But he certainly had met Josh and he had been with us.

And I guess it just had never come up in conversation.

And then he paused,

And he said,

No,

You know what it is?

You just don't wear it.

And that's why it struck me and stayed with me because I think we are very often the worst thing that happened to us.

We hold onto that disappoint.

Or the worst thing that's happened to us right now.

Right.

And then we wear that,

Right?

And so of course then it's hard to get past that.

And we also wear our emotions on our faces and our bodies.

I mean,

Sometimes I look at people who are older and you can see if they laughed a lot in their life or they frowned a lot in their lives because they sometimes become really etched in our skin.

I mean,

In extreme ways for certain people.

Feelings of betrayal,

Resentment,

And sadness become those lines on our faces.

And it's the foundation of our identity.

And ultimately it's the way we express ourselves into the world.

And so I've talked to you about this a lot,

That there is a default emotion that everybody has.

And I kind of mentioned making me laugh with your face.

I mentioned it last week.

So my default emotion is sadness.

And I'm sure that is the case for others as well.

And of course there are different,

You know,

The common emotions that we all share are anger,

Fear,

Resentment,

And shame.

And I came to understand that sadness was my default emotion.

When I started to look back at my life and the things that had happened,

My first experience with sadness actually was after my family moved from Louisiana to California following a devastating financial setback.

But I identified my default emotion years later when I found myself in a state of sadness again when I was going through an eating disorder.

And then I found that that was the theme.

Whenever something like a life quake would happen in my life,

Something that was really challenging,

I would go to a place of sadness.

And not everybody responds like that.

Again,

For some,

That is their default emotion.

As well others,

It could be anger.

It could be shame.

It's different for everybody.

And I'm generally,

I think,

Upbeat,

Not compared to you.

But when I start to feel sad,

That I have learned to pay attention to because it's an indication that there's something going on in my life that I really do need to pay attention to that I'm just not yet.

So before we go further into the pod,

Because I just want all of our listeners to take pause and just to do this quick accounting for yourself.

So if you're not sure what your default emotion is,

Think back to how you felt during two or three instances where things didn't go your way.

You were let go from a job,

Went through a breakup,

Lost an opportunity you'd been counting on,

Whatever it may have been.

Under pressure,

We all have a default emotion.

And it's probably the one you're pretty familiar with.

So I think it's really important to identify it so you can now have like,

It's almost like an alarm for yourself when you recognize that emotion coming up.

It is take even five minutes or just ask yourself the question,

What is this telling me?

So if sadness is your default emotion,

Thank the sadness for bringing your attention to something you may have overlooked or simply not deemed important enough to address head on yet.

Inviting sadness to be your teacher is a sure way to start transforming it.

Interesting.

I was going to ask you,

What do you think my default emotion is?

Oh,

I know.

Really?

What is it?

But I'm trying to think if that's an emotion.

I think it's a behavior.

Let me just think for a second.

I hope this is positive or negative.

You asked the question.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I'm a,

Well you,

You withdraw,

You withdraw and then you,

That's the thing you withdraw and you then get very tired and yes.

I don't like that.

So I guess this is not really sadness.

Yeah.

I mean it's,

I think it's a,

It's an aspect of it because you don't really get sad.

I think you get despondent.

You're like,

No,

I don't think it's really,

Yeah,

No,

I just get quiet.

Yeah.

But I think you get,

It's like you're less enthusiastic about life.

So again,

You're not normal.

It's not,

You don't go to the level of sadness,

But I think it's a relative.

It's like in the same vein.

Do you agree?

I would say,

Yeah.

I mean,

Again,

What I try to do,

None of us are perfect,

Is that when something,

Any challenge,

Right?

We're talking,

That's the effect where obviously when happy things happen,

Most of us are happy,

But when things don't go as we would want them to go or challenge.

Yeah.

So I'd like to take the time,

Yeah,

These,

The initial reaction and then to assess it and then try to find the right way out of it,

Right?

The right way to,

I know what it is.

You get worried.

You do.

That's the first one.

The default emotion is worry.

And then you get to this other place we just talked about.

And then when you worry,

You get quiet.

Yeah.

I just,

I needed a minute while you were talking.

All right.

All right.

I'll accept that sometimes.

But what I wanted,

So did you want to share any more about,

About the accounting that no,

I think that that's just a really,

And it doesn't have to be so complicated,

Right?

I think you just have to again,

Do the steps we talked about,

Go back to it,

Identified only for the purpose of when you start to recognize that again,

Assuming that's not your natural disposition that you say,

Okay,

Wait a second,

This is here to teach me something or help me pay attention or,

You know,

Steer me in a direction that I need to go.

Very important.

And I think if we think about,

Uh,

Really the underlying thought of last week's episode and this week's episode,

It really all centers around the fact that sadness is a gift and is meant to transform us for the better.

And only if we're going through the sadness with,

With this consciousness will we actually wind up on the other side of it more elevated,

More,

More happy really.

But I,

But I want,

So what I wanted to do in that vein is talk a little bit about the benefits of sadness.

Yeah.

I want to talk about the value of sadness too.

So why don't you go first?

Yeah,

I already did.

Okay.

So,

So this is based on scientific research and there's a few things,

But I was going to base mine on psychological research.

Ooh,

Go ahead.

I'm sure yours is better.

Um,

So,

So three,

Three,

Actually four areas that,

That they found that sadness improves or the benefits of sadness is that sadness can improve our memory.

And they've actually done studies where people in a sad state and in a happy state walk into a store and then they ask them what they recollect from that visit.

Those who were in a sad state had much better memory,

Clearer memories than those who were in a happy state.

Well,

Let me ask you a question because I know that to be true because I can,

I can look back at times and the memory is clear.

I'm really sure I'm acutely aware of what I'm feeling because I'm feeling very strongly,

Right?

That's,

That's the emotion,

But it's not that it improves your memory overall or longterm.

It's just that you're,

I think you're able to recall or experience that moment again in a much more heightened state.

Right.

Is there more,

Well,

No,

No,

No,

At least that,

At least that,

Right.

Because by the way,

The,

The,

The,

The foundation of these studies was,

Again,

We believe that there's many spiritual reasons,

Right?

But they were looking at what are the evolutionary reasons for sadness because they couldn't,

It doesn't make immediate logical sense.

We,

We understand other emotions,

Why anger and fear are necessary to protect us in,

You know,

In our evolution as a species.

But,

But,

Well,

Let's say that,

You know,

Somebody did some,

Some,

Something,

You know,

Somebody tried to kill somebody,

For example.

Right.

So that anger protects them from getting closer to them again.

Right.

So,

So anger can be a very protective evolutionary emotion.

Whereas I think of like mothers against drunk driving,

Right?

Like you have somebody who's really upset about something happened.

You can transform that anger into actually,

For another example.

Exactly.

So,

So the point being that evolutionarily it was clear many of the emotions that we still have,

But sadness is one that doesn't really make sense evolutionarily.

Therefore,

They did these studies.

So they found again that,

That it brings to improve memory.

So for example,

The person who's a state of sadness has a greater ability to remember.

Now with that,

That then transfers over,

It's less important to the fact that in that moment there is something positive that's happening within the brain,

Within the person that's allowing them.

Second,

That sadness improves judgment.

And this is also another surprise that,

That they found again through studies that if you put the same decision between in front of somebody who's in a happy mood,

In front of somebody who's in a sad mood,

Then the person in a sad mood would more likely make the better judgment,

Which is again very interesting.

Which is probably why often in life before we're about to make important decisions,

There's some level of sadness that comes in probably on some level also to improve our judgment and the decisions that we're going to make moving forward.

Interestingly,

I can tell you that's absolutely true.

Oh,

Really?

I've done that as well.

I think for me,

If I'm in a state of sadness,

I need to decide something.

It's like,

Again,

That emotion,

I always just assumed it was me,

But I guess with what you're sharing right now,

It's probably more universal.

It's like,

I don't,

I'm in such a raw state,

Like I'm so just that I can see so clearly and none of that other noise matters.

So I'm less influenced by like,

Oh,

It's shiny or oh,

That like,

It's just like,

It's very,

Very clear about what is true and what's not true.

Interesting.

Thirdly,

It,

Sadness increases generosity,

Which is also interesting.

If you don't mind,

I'd like to read the study that they ran,

Which I found just interesting.

But I think also we can learn from it.

That's true too.

I can tell you've done all this.

Oh really?

Tell me,

Tell me,

Tell me.

Yeah,

Because if I'm feeling sad,

Then I can also recognize more in another person where there's lack.

Like I can,

I'm paying attention to it and then I,

And then I actually,

And I know what would make me feel better because I'm not able to give to myself necessarily when I'm in a state of sadness is to give to somebody else.

And so it's,

It's that I'm like drawn to that and it works every time.

So I found this fascinating and I hope our listeners do as well.

So again,

In a social science experiment,

There's an ultimatum game that scientists use.

So to explain it very quickly,

You take one person,

You say,

They give them a certain amount of money,

Let's say a hundred dollars.

And that's person A.

They have a decision to make.

How much are they going to keep themselves?

How much are they going to give to person B?

Now person B either accepts that delineation of money or does not.

If person B does not accept that delineation,

Both of them receive zero.

Right?

So that's,

That's the test.

You give person A,

For example,

A hundred dollars,

You say,

You decide how much you give person B and how much you keep for yourself.

Person B,

And there's only one decision by each.

And then so then person A decides,

For example,

I'll do it 50-50,

Which seems the right way to do it.

Person B then has a choice to accept or not to accept it.

If he accepts it,

They both get $50.

If he doesn't accept it,

They both get zero.

Okay.

So they use this to study cooperation,

Trust,

And generosity.

They give players money and tell them to allocate as much as they want to another person who has the power to accept or reject the offer.

If the offer is rejected,

Neither side gets anything.

Past research has found that those in the giver role are not simply driven by maximizing benefits for themselves.

However,

The impact of mood on such decisions has not been previously measured.

So my colleagues and I asked participants to play the ultimatum game after they'd been induced to feel happy or sad.

We measured how long it took for them to make their allocation decisions and how much they gave.

Those in sad moods gave significantly more to others than did happy people and took longer to make their decisions,

Suggesting that they pay greater attention to the needs of others and were more attentive and thoughtful in making their decisions.

Not surprising at all.

But isn't that amazing?

I think because if you ask the person on the street,

You know,

What are the benefits to being sad?

Most people would say,

I would assume not very many,

Right?

Or none,

Right?

Nobody wants to be in that state.

But these studies prove that,

Again,

As we said before,

But in this case that people are actually more generous when they're in this sad mood.

It's so interesting.

I really do believe it's because of what I said before.

I think when you're in that state,

You are able to see things that are more real,

Accurate,

And feel them.

I remember,

You know,

Not too long ago,

I was walking in the street and I had a hot cup of tea and I still had crutches and I was,

And I never do that.

I knew I shouldn't have gotten the tea and the,

I just knew,

But I really wanted the tea.

I don't remember the story,

But that doesn't sound like a good plan.

It was a horrible idea and I knew it.

I knew it every step of the way.

I knew when I was getting in the car,

I had an appointment,

But I was like hungry and thirsty and tired.

I really wanted the cup of tea.

And I was like,

Okay,

I'll just,

I'll shuffle.

I'll take really small steps.

And I burned my hand and my foot.

There was a groove in the street.

It was just,

It was a disaster.

I almost just thought about throwing the tea on the floor,

To be honest.

So no,

I didn't follow that time,

But there was a woman walking and I also,

I thought I need help.

So I was really like,

Who would not be threatened by me asking is what I was kind of,

You know,

So I picked somebody who had gloves on.

So I thought maybe with COVID,

Like she wouldn't want to come near me in a stranger.

So I was like,

And she like almost ran from me and she was really,

Really nasty.

And I walked a little bit more very slowly.

And then this homeless man came to me and said,

Can I help you?

And I think it's exactly,

I was like the person that really doesn't have much,

Right,

Is offering me help because he just noticed,

I think that I needed it without knowing it.

I don't know the lady,

It's not personal.

There's no judgment,

But I think it's kind of connected to that.

Interesting.

Interesting.

The fourth,

Which I think maybe is the most important one.

When you say interesting,

Interesting,

I feel like you really,

It's not that interesting to you.

No,

I'm not,

I'm not,

I'm being honest when I say interesting.

Really?

So when you say interesting,

Interesting,

It sounds like you want to move on.

If you say interesting and pause,

It sounds like you really want to hear it.

Thank you for that feedback.

Next time I'll say it only once.

You're welcome.

You want to share any more with that?

No,

My story is done and hopefully inspired our listeners more than it inspired you.

I,

Yeah,

Yes,

I found that very interesting.

The fourth,

Which I think is maybe the most important,

Is that the research has found that sadness increases motivation,

Right?

And again,

We read a little bit from their studies.

So we put this to the test by showing participants either happy or sad films and then assigning them a demanding cognitive task with many difficult questions.

There was no time limit,

Which allowed us to measure their perseverance by assessing the total time they spent on the questions.

So right,

So two groups of people,

One of them in sad state,

One of them happy state,

Giving the same difficult task,

Questions to answer.

We found participants who were happy,

Spent less time,

Attempted fewer items and scored fewer correct answers than did participants we put in a negative mood who spontaneously made more effort and achieved better results.

So to me,

This really encapsulates the true purpose of sadness.

And there's an important Kabbalistic test because,

Again,

Sadness generally falls into two categories.

Sadness that makes us introspective and eventually moves us forward,

Motivates us to change.

And then there's sadness that keeps us really paralyzed or in a state of non-doing.

And the Kabbalists teach that even within sadness,

There's good sadness and bad sadness or sadness that you want to get rid of,

Sadness you want to keep.

The sadness that keeps you in a state of paralysis,

That stops you from doing,

That's not a positive sadness.

But the sadness that makes you more motivated,

That puts you in a state of introspection with a desire and then finding the way to then do differently or do more,

That's the most positive effect of sadness.

So what makes sadness positive or negative,

As you just said,

Is just your response to it.

Right,

Right,

Right.

And you should ask yourself that question.

OK,

I'm in a state of sadness.

And it's not just how you reacted.

You can actually decide.

I know it has a purpose.

Its purpose is to create introspection so I can really assess,

Like you said before,

Are there things that need to be changing?

Where is this coming from?

And then secondly,

Is it moving me forward?

Or more importantly,

How can I use this sadness to make changes?

How can I move this,

Use this sadness to move me,

To motivate me?

Because it has that ability.

Science tells us this.

And spiritually,

The understanding is that that's the reason it's coming into your life.

Use it in that way and you will find that it then motivates you to change and motivates you to do more.

And well,

The issue is that from a very young age,

We're taught to avoid our feelings of sadness.

As adults,

We quickly shush wailing babies or offhandedly say to sobbing children,

Don't be sad,

Cheer up,

You're fine,

Stop crying.

I mean,

I think a lot of people are just uncomfortable with this emotion specifically.

And psychologist Lisa Firestone said our tendency to avoid sadness is almost instinctive.

And though it's unintentional,

We tend to pass this message down to our children that sadness is bad and it's to be avoided.

So I think the first is to see where you are and how you feel about sadness.

I mean,

Often any of the negative emotions we feel,

We tend to ignore them or run away from them because we don't talk about how to handle feelings that are uncomfortable and what to do with them and certainly not how to transform them into something that's positive.

Yeah.

And I think that's,

I think,

Again,

Another big message hopefully from this podcast is that idea that not only do you not want to run away from them,

But more importantly,

You want to discover what is there to teach you,

Like you said before,

And allow it to motivate and allow it to introspect and find what changes you need to make.

But also we can't selectively numb pain or sadness without numbing.

We can well without numbing joy.

Also you can't,

You can't.

Jonathan Safran actually said you can't protect yourself from sadness without protecting yourself from happiness.

If you suppress negative emotions,

You lose touch with your adaptive emotions like love,

Passion,

Warmth,

Or desire,

And therefore lead a much more deadened life.

When we feel our feelings,

Our lives have meaning,

Texture,

Depth,

And purpose.

And I know this from speaking to many people that those people who have found a way,

Right,

Because fortunately,

Unfortunately in times yes,

But in times no,

It is possible to dampen our emotional state.

But like you said,

Like Jonathan said,

The effect of that is that also the benefits,

Right,

Love and passion and happiness will also be diminished.

As a matter of fact,

The decree,

And I think this is the effect of what you said,

The degree of happiness,

Certainly the degree of our potential happiness is certainly equal to the degree of our potential sadness.

And if you don't have one,

You don't have the other.

Abigail Lair,

Mills Frankie,

Of our potential sadness.

And if you diminish the potential sadness that you can experience,

You also diminish the potential happiness that you can experience.

And why does it work like that?

Well,

Because everything in this world is in a balance.

So sadness has to be equal to the potential,

For sadness has to be equal to the potential for happiness.

If a person in some way dampens or numbs their emotional state,

Which that necessarily means that they just dampen their potential low levels of sadness,

But it also dampens their high levels of happiness.

Their ability to experience that.

Right,

Right.

The one thing I would add to this idea,

Because I think it is important to be able to assess is this is a sadness that I am using or learning from in the best way,

Is I would group a whole bucket of sadness you don't want to experience.

So one of the first questions should be,

Is this sadness created by external forces?

Right,

For example,

In today's world,

People go on,

We spoke about this,

People go on social media,

They see something,

It makes them sad.

Any sadness that is coming from external sources is something that we need to be working on completely excising from our lives.

Sadness is coming from something internal.

That's the powerful sadness.

That's the good sadness.

That's the sadness that can motivate.

Such as?

A person's in their career,

For example.

I was listening to somebody,

It's been a novelist speak yesterday,

And they were in their 40s and they said,

Is this my life now?

Because they've been in their 20s and 30s,

People often think,

I can do this for three years,

Then I'll do something else,

I can do this for five years.

But then sometimes when people get their 40s,

They're like,

Oh wow,

This is forever.

Or is this the height of my career or the height of my accomplishments?

Do they change this path?

They started thinking about it.

It was her,

She,

And she started thinking about it differently.

It's interesting when you say that because I think that we all,

Again,

It's something that you need to train yourself to recognize.

For instance,

I have found if something,

And this happens,

And I'll share with you repeatedly throughout the day,

Like,

Oh,

Suddenly I feel sad.

And again,

Because I am now keenly aware that that is my default emotion,

What just happened a minute ago or five minutes ago,

Why am I feeling that?

And then I'm like,

Wait,

I have a choice.

This isn't real,

This isn't real life,

And who cares if it's something petty.

But I also,

As the example you just shared,

I remember when I woke up feeling sad most mornings.

And it was at a time where,

Yes,

I had found my path and my calling at 17,

But what I did in terms of revealing my potential,

That should be forever changing.

And I remember that I had felt stagnant and stuck.

I never doubted my purpose.

I didn't wanna change what I was doing.

I wanted to change how I was doing it.

So I was no longer satisfied sitting behind a desk.

I wanted to go out and teach,

Which was terrifying.

And I had a lot of people saying,

You know,

You should never do that.

So I listened at first,

And I made myself smaller and smaller.

And I remember I started waking up sad,

And I'm like,

Wait a second,

What am I so sad about?

And I tried to shake it up,

And I ignored it for a month,

Two months,

And I still felt sad.

And I said,

Okay,

This is not,

I mean,

Clearly I need to make a change here and make a choice.

And what if I never did that?

I mean,

It's such a different life.

I would have had,

I never would have written a book.

Yeah,

I mean,

It's really profound.

Maybe it should be one of your children's books.

I know,

As you said it,

I was kind of thinking about that.

By the way,

I know it's way too early to be talking about this.

I'm so excited Monica's book went to press,

And her first children's book,

The Gift.

I like that idea.

The Gift of Being Different.

It's an amazing book,

Very,

Very beautiful,

And amazingly written.

Really anything our listeners can do with that information right now,

Because it'll only be available probably around August.

August,

September.

For August,

September to buy,

But I'm just really excited.

I wanted to share with our listeners.

But back to your point,

That assessing positive sadness and negative sadness,

Meaning sadness that isn't pushing us forward,

Sadness that is holding us back.

I had a conversation the other night with a person who had,

He had experienced what one can call mildly public embarrassment.

And that really damaged his career.

And he was sharing with me,

We were in a room with people,

And he was sharing with me,

He said,

You know,

When I walk into this room,

My first thought,

My constant thought is,

Anybody here is thinking about me.

Everybody here is talking about me.

Like pointing at me,

Even though not physically,

But figuratively.

And I was like,

You know nobody cares,

Right?

I don't even know what you're talking about.

Exactly.

The truth is,

Again,

Before me and him.

We know the same people,

So I'm trying to think like,

Who is it?

Before me and before having this conversation,

I really wasn't aware.

I mean,

I heard some things,

But the point is so much of what makes us sad.

And again,

There is that first bucket.

And I really ask our listeners to,

When you next experience sadness,

Really delve into what is causing it.

Is it the,

You know,

Using this as a general example,

The external,

Meaning social media,

Other people,

In that case,

That's kind of sadness you don't really want to deal with.

Is it coming from inside?

Is it shining a light on something that needs to be changed?

Something that needs to be grown?

Something that needs to be jettisoned,

Right?

These parts,

The points in our lives,

Like you said,

Sitting behind the desk was no longer working for you.

Well,

I think the external is telling your ego,

Look at all the things you're missing out on.

Look at all the lack you have that can create sadness.

The internal is your soul telling you,

Listen,

This isn't enough.

And it's not nearly enough of what you're capable of doing or the life you're able to live or the relationship you can have,

Et cetera.

So it's just,

I think that that's an easy way to kind of understand it,

Right?

The ego will be always connected to things that are external in the physical world.

And that will create something that feels really sad and lack,

But isn't real,

Versus that internal part of you that's connected to your source and where you've come from.

And it's there to guide us and to really keep us going in the direction we're meant to of growth.

That's very important what you said.

And I think another lesson from what you just said to our listeners or thought is really know your sadness,

Right?

Because like you said,

There's that emotion that we all feel at different times.

We often don't take the time to understand it.

What is it showing me?

What does it teach me?

Where is it directing me?

Is it coming from the right?

This is coming from the wrong place.

So let's talk about transforming sadness a bit and how we do that.

So people tend to either diminish or dramatize their emotions instead of just feeling them.

To exaggerate or ruminate in our sadness can be destructive,

But to pretend that we aren't feeling sadness can be just as damaging.

And I wanna ask your opinion on this,

But the great 16th century Kabbalist,

Rov Isaac Luria,

Also known as the Ari said,

Sadness is detrimental for one who wants to achieve wisdom and divine inspiration.

Nothing prevents clarity,

Even when one deserves it like sadness.

I think that's really interesting.

I wanna unpack that in a minute,

But also I think this is really interesting.

This is from a letter that Rov Brandwein wrote to my teacher,

Your father,

Rov Berg.

And in it,

He wrote,

Well,

There's a verse in ancient text Rashi that is related to sadness.

And it said that the blessed cannot cleave onto the cursed.

And in the letter,

Rov Brandwein I think added,

One feels that he is far from being complete.

It is mostly as these times that the evil inclination comes to confuse him further and reminds him of all his shortcomings,

His troubles,

His sins to trick him into a state of sadness.

But the light can't dwell in a place of sadness.

So it's a paradox,

Right?

When we look at our mistakes,

Especially the ways in which we put others or ourselves,

It's natural to feel sad.

So that's just one example of what causes sadness for us.

Feeling sadness over the pain we've caused is even healthy.

It means we have true remorse,

But staying in the space of sadness is ultimately counterproductive because the light or our goodness can't reach us in this space.

So what are your thoughts about that?

No,

That's exactly,

That's the duality,

Which is important to understand about sadness.

Everything we said until now is true.

Sadness has a purpose,

It has a blessing.

You have to understand it.

You have to let it teach you.

You also can't let it hold you.

You have to be able to let go of it because ultimately- Because then it's a blockage for all the other things.

Absolutely.

If you stay in sadness beyond the moment of teaching,

Beyond the moment of understanding,

Then it is then limiting you,

Right?

In all the other areas of your life.

In all the blessings that you're meant to now receive moving forward.

And that's specific to the emotion of sadness,

Right?

You wouldn't say that about anger or anxiety.

No,

I would say that about anger.

All the negative emotions?

Any negative emotions,

Yes.

But sadness is really called out specifically by the ancient sages because it is seen as,

Right,

Because when a person is in a state of sadness,

It is seen as literally a barrier or a wall for that person to experience their blessings,

Their great light.

And also you don't have clarity.

And is that unique to sadness again?

Or do you think that's again with all?

I guess it's with all of those emotions.

All of those,

But again,

The intrinsic nature of sadness,

Right,

Is even in physical state,

Low,

Right?

Not high,

Not elevated.

So while it is true again,

That there is so much positive effects of sadness,

Experienced and learned in the proper way,

You wanna do everything you cannot to stay there.

Because for your next blessings,

For your next light,

You want to be experiencing happiness.

As a matter of fact,

And related to what you're saying,

There's a beautiful teaching that says that often,

The problem isn't any mistake that we made or even anything negative that we've done,

But really the purpose of that negative action or mistake is to get us to a state of sadness and that will limit our blessings.

So you really wanna fight against sadness if you can,

After having learned,

Having really discovered that when it's there,

The gift of sadness is there to teach you,

You want to elevate yourself out of it as quickly as you've learned.

And I would add to that,

That the quicker you learn,

The quicker you can get out of it.

Well,

I think that this is an appropriate time to offer a tool.

It's a bit,

It's referencing what you said a little bit earlier about your perfected self,

But and it's a little bit tricky at first,

But once you start to understand this concept and are able to live it,

Then you can really get out of those states of sadness so that you don't block yourself.

So,

Where Branwine offers the solution to the paradox is that when we feel this lack,

This sadness,

We need to borrow a vessel.

And the Kabbalists elaborate on the point of explaining at any point we can borrow energy from an elevated soul,

A soul who's corrected their desire to receive for their self alone entirely.

And in connecting to that energy,

We connect to wholeness rather than lack.

So that's a bit heady,

I think.

Wow,

That's,

You just took us really deep.

I know,

But I think it's important to have that kind of understanding and we'll unpack that.

But also,

If that's too much to even think about an elevated soul,

But I think even people can think about any huge role model who has been example of- I would say even more so that what that statement is actually referring to- Well,

Also,

No,

But I'm not finished.

Oh,

Okay,

Sorry.

Because I think you were gonna say it,

Is to connect to your own perfected self.

Right.

And we do have the ability to do that no matter how deficient we feel or how unaware we are of what our perfected self looks like and we haven't experienced it.

So we can borrow it even from ourself,

Right?

So that's the part that I want to unpack.

Because again,

I think that's very heady as well.

I mean,

We all exist in a state of potential.

So I think it's seeing that way and it's envisioning what your- and people say your best self,

Which kind of makes it seem less than,

But to see what if on your best day,

Even whatever that is,

It's nothing compared to the perfection of your soul.

So let's unpack it a little bit.

Right,

I mean,

The best example,

Not the best,

But the example that I often use is,

Again,

Imagine a candle covered by a shade,

Right?

And then covered by another shade,

And then another shade,

And then another shade.

So many shades that the candle does not shine any light out anymore.

The candle has not changed,

Right?

The candle in its perfected state is revealing a light,

But there's so many shades upon that candle that it no longer projects outward.

But it's still,

It has not been damaged in any way.

It has not been changed.

That is the way we need to always be looking at ourselves,

Even when we are at our lowest state,

Which is,

I am so powerful,

So light-filled beyond any of my imagination.

Even though right now I'm not connecting to that,

I'm not maybe experiencing that light,

I know with certainty that it's there.

I wanna give another example just to really,

Because this is how I envisioned it as we were talking.

If you had never have reference of what a baby grows into,

Right?

A baby comes into the world,

And you didn't know what a child looks like or an adult looks like.

Let's say you just landed in this universe.

And so the baby cannot talk,

The baby cannot eat by itself,

The baby cannot walk,

Cannot go to the bathroom.

And you would think that that is the potential of that creature,

That thing.

Now,

Of course we know,

The baby will learn to do all these things independently,

Learn to walk,

To run,

To ride a bike.

But if you didn't understand that,

You could never imagine that it had the potential to do all the things that it one day will be able to do.

And I think that's very much what,

When we look at the soul,

We think we're only able to understand the world,

See it as we do from the state that we're in today.

Even if you're a good person,

Even if you are on a spiritual path,

But in reality,

And again,

You have no reference for that because you have in this life have not experienced that version of yourself yet to know how far you ultimately can go.

More than that,

Even if you have,

When you're in a state of sadness,

You forget it.

And that's the point.

And that's why I think it's such a powerful idea.

Even if you have,

Again,

No reference of what your vessel,

The potential of what your soul can be ultimately,

To understand that it's just your limitation,

It's not a reality,

Right?

Absolutely,

Absolutely.

I think that's a really powerful tool.

Can you share a time when you felt sadness about your own limitations and in that space of lack borrowed from your potential,

Your future vessel,

Or even a borrowed vessel?

I mean,

You're probably up there with like,

I went to the righteous and asked,

But- No,

No,

No,

No,

That's not,

Yeah.

I often,

When I am faced with any challenge,

I remind myself of the great light that I am.

And this is true for every one of our listeners.

And I strongly believe that if any of us is able to consistently remind ourselves of our own greatness and light,

Not distracted by our current state of emotional state or otherwise,

We would be not only able to use the low state of sadness for its benefit and motivation,

But we would find ourselves very less,

Very much less in states of sadness.

So I do it all the time.

And I strongly recommend for all of our listeners do that all the time.

Just know,

And even if you have to lie to yourself the first few times,

Remind yourself,

I have,

My soul is perfect.

It is light-filled.

It is so tremendously beyond anything that I am experiencing right now.

And that's who I am.

And yes,

I might be experiencing sadness now.

I might be in a low point right now.

I might be experiencing this challenge,

But I will not forget.

And through that not forgetting,

Through that remembering,

I connect to who I actually am.

So since my heart and my thoughts are with the families in Uvalde,

Texas,

I wanted to quote Brene Brown,

Actually,

In her book,

Atlas of the Heart.

She said,

My research has taught me that acknowledging and naming our own sadness is critical in the formation of compassion and empathy.

And our saddest moments,

We wanna be held by and feel connected to someone who has known the same ache,

Even if what caused it is completely different.

And I think it's so relevant considering all of this is that there's so much pain and sadness in the world.

I think it's a time to come together and show our goodness that exists in the face of evil.

It doesn't take away the hurt,

But all of us watching those in pain can broaden,

It can help broaden our humanity.

So again,

Sadness has a place.

Ultimately,

It's what you understand its purpose to be and how you are able to transcend it.

Absolutely,

I would pretty much echo that idea that I hope our listeners today take away the benefits of sadness and able to use the tools that we gave them and the consciousness that we shared to be able to not only go through sadness,

But use it as the blessing by knowing it,

By asking it what it's there to teach us,

Not only go through sadness,

But be elevated every time by sadness.

And hopefully because of that,

Experience it less and less.

So I'd like to share a email we received from one of our listeners.

Dear Monica and Michael,

I have been wanting to write you again for a long time and I listened today to the podcast on laziness,

So I decided to write you.

I'm so happy to hear that.

And again,

I hope all of our listeners who desire to are motivated to write because it motivates us and inspires us and our listeners.

Thank you very much for all the time,

Love and effort you put into your podcast.

It is one of my favorite things in life.

It's where honestly,

After hearing that,

It's worth it to record the podcast just for you.

It always makes me smile and feel better after listening to it.

I would love to meet you in person one day.

I consider you both as my teachers and I am really grateful I found this podcast.

I really don't know how my life would be right now.

Thanks to you,

My life has improved a lot and I have made better choices.

I can't express in words what this podcast means to me.

I wish you the best.

And again,

Thank you very,

Very much,

George.

So thank you,

George,

For writing that email.

And it certainly inspires Monica and I to not only continue,

But to spread the word of this podcast to more and more people,

Which is the perfect time to remind our listeners to send us all of your questions,

Comments,

Thoughts,

Share with Monica and I by sending emails to monicaandmichaelatcabala.

Com and share this podcast with everybody you know.

Go to Apple Podcasts,

Write five star reviews and do everything you can that more people can benefit from the hopefully light and consciousness and teachings that we share through this podcast.

And as always,

I hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Stay spiritually hungry.

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