COVID Best Practices: Cultivating Mental Health & Creating Boundaries With Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT

It's day whatever of quarantine and people are really starting to feel it. I had a great chat with Licensed Marriage Family Therapist Jocelyn Fitzgerald and she gave a ton of great tips on how to create healthy boundaries with your loved ones during these times when you see them all the time as well as how to speak to your children about the negative emotions that come up at this time and how to implement coping mechanisms.

Transcript

So today on the show I have Jocelyn Fitzgerald.

Jocelyn is a licensed MFT.

Do you have a focus on trauma?

I was reading your bio and so your focus is working with teens with trauma,

But you've also worked with Alzheimer's,

Correct?

There's a lot.

And when you read my name,

It's like alphabet soup.

So LMFT is licensed marriage and family therapist.

And then I do EMDR,

Which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing,

Which is a great tool for trauma.

And then I'm also an ATRBC,

Which is a registered art therapist.

So I work with all sorts of people and I combine trauma treatments in art therapy.

That's kind of the majority of what I do.

And you just went to Africa two years ago and you combined art therapy with EMDR,

Right?

And you were doing the benefits of.

.

.

So what was like,

I know we're getting a little off topic here,

But how was that?

It was amazing.

It was so wonderful.

It looked amazing.

Yeah.

I dream about going back every day.

I saw your pictures on Facebook and it looked incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I worked here with Catholic services and their refugee international refugee program.

And I just really fell in love with some of these kids from there from Eritrea and they would talk about what it was like for them in the refugee camps in Ethiopia.

So I just got set in my mind that I was going to go to the refugee camp where they came from.

And long story short,

I had lots of people saying,

No,

You can't do it.

It's not safe.

They were in a civil war at the time.

But then the civil war ended like maybe three months before I went and I found an organization that would host me and believed in the power of EMDR and art.

And we got to work with the social workers there and train them.

And then we got to do a study too.

So to see how well it worked and it was great.

The benefits were outstanding.

And the work continues because we were able to teach.

So it wasn't like we just went and did our protocol without leaving them with skills to continue.

Sorry about that.

Do you still keep in touch with everyone?

I do.

I do.

And I'm actually at this time really worried about them because in the camps there's no social distancing.

They live in these little huts all together and there's very limited medical support or I'm sure there's no ventilators anywhere nearby.

Have you heard anything from anybody since this pandemic has started?

I keep checking in with them and they keep saying everybody's here.

Everybody here is good so far.

So I'll continue.

I think pretty much every day I send a little note to somebody.

They all are on Facebook.

But it's limited there too for them to get it.

They have to pay for their Wi-Fi use.

So it's harder for them to respond.

I've known Jocelyn for years and she's just one of my favorite people.

We barely talk.

But when we do talk,

I'm always so excited to talk to you.

And this whole podcast sort of stemmed from the conversation that we were having the other day which is something that I didn't even think about.

But how this pandemic and this quarantine is really affecting your home life.

Because now you're at home all the time with your family and me being the single gal in the city where it's like I'm quarantining alone.

I don't even think about what that means.

And all of a sudden you've gone from having your life and going to your job and going to the grocery store and going out to your friends to now you're just home together all the time.

I know.

It's hard.

It's hard.

It's hard,

Right?

It's funny.

Even like I love certain things about it that we get to go for family walks.

But sometimes my family always wants to join me now on my walk and I just really want to go by myself.

And it's like,

Well,

I have to sometimes set a boundary.

Like,

No,

I just needed like an hour break.

And it's really important for my mental health too.

And how do you feel when you do that?

Because I know that as women we have a tendency to it's like really hard for us to say no and not to stereotype.

But does it I mean,

It's something that you should do,

But does it make you feel guilty?

How do you feel when you sort of or is it easier for you to establish your boundaries or?

Well,

It's probably a mix of all of it.

I think one thing that I've learned from this whole pandemic is that my emotions and I think a lot of my clients and my people that I love,

It's like the rainbow of emotions,

From being really grateful at times to feeling like intense grief and loss over the old life that we once had.

And luckily I have a husband who's a runner so he goes off and runs,

Does long distances.

So he gets his breaks there and he is totally fine with me saying I need just a little bit of alone time.

So that works out.

And then my son is really into riding his bike.

So if he rides and I walk,

I kind of feel like I still get alone time because he's way up ahead.

A lot of times he's super happy to just stay home and flex his independence because he's a 10 year old now.

So he gets a little alone time too.

Well,

I think that that's a really important point.

How do you,

When you're at home,

How do you create that space where you can have self care and still sort of be there?

Yeah,

I was going to bring,

I made a sign.

I've been talking to my clients too about making signs for their door.

I made a sign for my door when I'm working because this is my office now and right outside and downstairs is my whole family.

But I also literally on the other side of this wall is a huge drum set that my son loves to play.

So I have a sign that says,

A mom's working,

Please,

No drumming.

But I've also talked to clients about,

You know,

Mom needs 30 minutes,

Please give me a little space and time.

And I think it's so important to create those signs,

Like whether they're physical or just,

You know,

A reminder in your mind,

Like it's okay to take a little bit of space.

I know this is a metaphor that's been around forever,

But that metaphor about when you're on the airplane and they say you have to put your mask on first before you put your young children's mask on,

Because if you're passed out from lack of oxygen,

You're not going to be any good to anyone else.

And I just think that that metaphor works so well right now too of like,

We have to,

As parents,

Take care of ourselves and sometimes first,

Which feels really weird,

But really important because if we're grumpy and burnt out,

We're not going to be any good to our kids or spouse.

What would you recommend to people?

What are some steps that they can take to create that space for themselves?

Well,

I think even talking to your family about that,

Giving them a heads up is a great thing to do.

I think finding things that you,

I mean,

Obviously we're so lucky that we can still go outside on going walks.

I think taking time to go outside every day,

Taking,

I try to meditate every day.

I know you meditate twice a day.

I try at least once a day and it makes a huge difference in my emotional wellbeing.

And sometimes I think we only have what I call micro breaks,

Like maybe a two minute break.

And I actually think it's totally okay if you go in the bathroom and close the door and just breathe for two minutes,

If that's the only place that you can find that's quiet where nobody can get to you.

I mean,

I think you just find ways to have those breaks throughout the day if you're stuck,

Especially,

Especially I think for parents that have toddlers,

I think this would be extremely challenging.

Toddlers and teenagers,

I'm like,

Those are going to be hard,

Really hard for parents right now because teenagers of course don't want to be home all day with parents.

They want to be socializing and the toddlers just want to be running around all day.

Yeah.

I feel like this is really sort of just redefining how we do things.

This is this new normal that doesn't ever feel normal.

And so when you're part of a family or a unit and you're trying to get your own space and then you have your teenagers or your kids or whatever,

Your teenagers,

Let's say,

Are trying to establish their independence.

What can you do for your kids too,

So that they can have that space as well?

Like,

Is that something that you can help them create?

I mean,

What do you do with Dax so that he feels like he's not just with mom and dad,

Even though mom and dad are fantastic all the time.

Like,

You know,

I'm sure he needs his own space and I'm sure he needs to be around his friends and he needs to do all of that stuff.

Like how do you raise a well-rounded kid in quarantine?

Yeah.

We've gotten creative.

He still does piano lessons on Zoom.

He has drum lessons on Zoom.

So we've been able to continue his music that he loves.

And then I felt like he loves airplanes so much.

So I found this person that's studying to be a pilot and she'll meet with him once a month and they'll do like a whole lesson on how to fly airplanes.

But I've tried to find connections on the computer,

Which is not ideal.

Obviously,

We don't want our kids in front of the screen all day,

But it's a special time,

Right?

And we have to find ways to connect and he's an only child.

So it could get lonely if it's just mom and dad all day.

Yeah.

Does he do like little parties with little meetups with his friends on Zoom?

I feel like Zoom is booming right now.

Like buy Zoom stock.

He does dance parties with his cousins on Fridays.

Either they talk about video games or dance and listen to music.

And then I'm also trying to get twice a week where he meets with both sets of grandparents.

And I'm like just 15 minutes so they can talk about stories from when me and my husband were young or talk about when they were young.

And I also think like.

.

.

What are you talking about?

What's that?

You're still young.

You're still young?

Yeah,

You're still young.

Don't say that.

I'm like you guys are still young.

So yeah.

And I've been talking to him a lot about my grandmas and how what kind of badass women they were and how they went through a lot of hard things.

They went through wars.

My grand grandma lost her father and her favorite sister to tuberculosis.

And then all these.

.

.

She had a shrimp restaurant and then it burnt to the ground.

And then she learned how to be a hairdresser and she was raising three kids on her own.

So I've been talking a lot about the history and the ancestors and how they survived hard,

Hard times.

I've also been doing art around them.

I made this little jar.

I don't know if you can see,

But that's my grandma.

Oh,

That's your grandma back there?

Oh,

I love that.

Oh,

She's gorgeous.

I love that.

So I think talking about that,

How this has happened before in history.

And my grandma survived and was a really cool person despite all the hard times that she went through.

So that's awesome.

So it's like trying to make it as normal as possible,

But also kind of teaching them coping mechanisms,

Which is super important right now.

Right?

Yeah.

Let's talk about routines and rituals a little bit.

Okay.

So one other thing I think might be interesting to talk about because I've been doing mask making.

Oh,

I love that.

Isn't that fun?

Yeah,

That's great.

I think kids too right now are going to be going out and when they start going out,

They're going to be seeing a lot of people wearing masks and talking about kind of normalizing that and talking about how superheroes use masks.

They use them to stay in disguise,

But that a lot of helpers nowadays are wearing masks,

All the doctors and nurses and the firefighters and the paramedics.

And they're kind of superheroes.

Yeah.

What's that?

I said,

And they're kind of superheroes.

So it's very unique.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

So talking about that with kids and even I think having them make their own masks would be a great thing to do as a family.

I actually made my own mask.

You did?

Yeah,

Because I didn't have one and everybody was sold out online.

So I looked up this article on how to make it and I don't know,

I think I sewed maybe once in my life and I never did,

But it was like this project that was just like this morning project,

But I have to say there's something to this whole art therapy thing because I love it now.

It's like the cutest thing and it actually looks like the picture,

Which is so weird.

And it was very therapeutic making it because that was the only thing that I was focusing on.

Oh yeah.

I really love the idea of doing art as a way of coping with what's happening because there's nothing really,

The anxiety is just really high right now and you can feel it.

It's like just on a collective level,

You can just sort of feel it everywhere.

And it's finding for me,

The challenge has been finding new coping mechanisms because I feel like the old stuff doesn't work anymore.

Like even hiking,

I've had to up my exercise because even just taking a hike now is just not enough.

Like I have to go do a hike and I have to do yoga and that's why I'm meditating twice a day.

But things like turning on a movie,

It just doesn't,

I don't know.

It's this like antsy feeling.

So I've been doing a lot more art.

I've been doing a lot of cooking,

Which for me is like very like sort of an artistic form and like really therapeutic for me and trying to find,

I mean I just made ranch dressing out of coconut milk,

Which it's really good too.

I highly recommend it.

I'll send you the recipe,

But I would love the recipe.

Yes.

I always knew ranch was a super food.

I just had to prove it.

That was it.

But yeah,

Like going back to what you were saying.

So creating this time to get creative with cooking,

With exercise,

With art.

I mean I think all of that is so important and I think also monitoring our self-talk.

Like a lot of these terms are really scary for kids like lockdown,

Quarantine,

Like instead you know,

Or saying things like we're cocooning,

We're nesting,

We're staying,

We get to be home and be safe together.

Like let's find new vocabulary.

And I know it's a serious time,

But I also think with kids creating language that is appropriate,

Like educating them on what they need to know.

Like I shared with you the other day,

It's like we can get on this really negative loop by watching the news all day every day and monitoring that and then just knowing what you need to know to keep yourself and your family safe.

Like you need to wash your hands,

You need to do social distancing,

If you go out you need to wear a mask,

But you don't need to watch you know nonstop CNN to be aware of what's going on.

In fact,

I think it's actually not great for most people's mental health.

I'm glad you actually brought that up because I feel like it's been,

I feel,

I always feel torn between like I need to stay informed and then getting there and just after five minutes feeling super depressed with everything that I'm hearing.

So how do you,

I guess,

How do you,

I'm sure that you have clients who are probably in the same boat and like,

You know,

In terms of like coping with it,

It's like how do you stay informed but don't get sucked down that rabbit hole?

Right,

I think it's really important.

Well,

I think one finding a good news outlet that you can trust is really important and then just having like,

You know,

A limited amount of time like once a day for 20 minutes and then really cutting it off.

That's kind of what I've been doing.

I like Democracy Now,

It's a podcast,

So I listen to that and I actually can't even listen to the whole thing sometimes because it's so depressing and,

But I agree,

Like it's important to stay informed.

Like you're,

California,

You guys just had it,

It's mandatory now that if you go out you wear a mask,

Right?

Yeah.

We're in Washington so we're not there yet but I would like to know because I imagine we'll be next when that happens.

Well,

You don't have to wear a mask when you're outside but if you go into a store you have to wear a mask.

So anything that's sort of like a closed area and if you don't then you get a fine.

I don't know how much that fine is but it's California so I'm sure it's pretty expensive.

So yeah,

So which is it's,

But here's the thing is that I didn't even catch that until,

Because I stopped listening to the news completely because I like I literally Jocelyn I'm at this point where I turn on Facebook and I'm there for five minutes and I'm like I can't.

And I know you all mean well by posting these articles about how terrible it is but I can't like,

I can't look at what's going on and apparently like you know yesterday Trump said we should inject ourselves with Lysol or whatever and that just sent me into this rage and it's just like it's like one thing after another.

So I've kind of stopped listening to the news and because of that I actually went to the store the other day and I didn't have a mask which is why I made my mask.

And the guy,

They wouldn't let me in.

So the guy was like no it starts next week but we're starting this week and this is like Safeway.

It's a major chain.

And so yeah so I was like okay so I so you you can't like you have to listen to some of the news and Gavin Newsom the governor here does every day he does a coronavirus update.

And it's just hard to sit there and listen to it even like on Facebook live because you see all these comments and there's so much negative energy right now.

And you know it's like and I think I think the real struggle is like how do you stay positive right now?

How do you and I think like too for you like as a parent as a mom it's it's a little bit harder because now you have to be a role model and now you have to make sure that you know you're being positive in front of your kids like you have to be super mindful of that.

This book I'm listening to Glennon Doyle's new book and she talks about this when we're on an airplane and it's going down everybody looks to the flight attendant for how they're reacting right?

And it's like as parents too you're kind of the flight attendant like you have to be like okay I got this we're gonna be okay we're gonna figure this out.

And then you know like we our nervous systems link up if we're in fight or flight or freeze our kids are gonna be in that too.

Yeah yeah so being mindful of that is so important and so hard and challenging.

Yeah and like I've definitely had mornings where I've cried and been really upset.

Luckily he's been still sleeping so he hasn't seen it but I think it's okay to cry in front of your kids like I think the reality is like this is a complicated scary hard time.

Yeah and I think it's important to show them a range of emotions right?

We do get sad we do get scared it's nothing to be ashamed of it is something that we're going through.

I mean I don't know how it's been for you but I feel like it's been an emotional rollercoaster for me and like you know like this morning I was crying and sometimes I don't even know why I'm crying or what you know the stress is from like I don't know if I'm just feeling everybody's energy or the negativity but like you know I think I was telling you it's like I was reading that article about how now there's like a hunger problem because of the coronavirus and you know and everything just feels kind of bleak you know like so how do we how do we find hope in that?

How do we find optimism and keep a positive mind frame through this?

I know I know well I think yeah having compassion for ourselves and like speaking to ourselves like we would a friend or a child is really important like I'm here I got you this is gonna be okay we're gonna get through this and not saying like it's gonna be easy because we don't know that it's gonna be hard there's gonna be challenges and honestly like we were saying too before we started recording that we can go to really dark places and sometimes I think it's okay that you go there and like you meditate on it and you think about it and then you let it go and move on.

So do you have any tools for people that would like and I may be putting you on the spot here and I apologize but like if you like how do you do that so you so you go to your dark place which is you know everybody does it we but how do you and how do you not stay in that area like how do you not because I feel like that so today it took me forever to get myself out of that space you know and I did everything like I went on a hike I had gotten a new vacuum cleaner delivered and I used it I'm so excited you know just like anything like sort I sort of avoided like the important things that I had to do because I just needed to do something vapid to make me feel better you know and so like what do you recommend for people?

Well I think that's a great point what you're saying like I think actually sometimes distracting ourselves is totally okay yeah sometimes doing busy work I think I mean I don't even think you should beat yourself up if you like have a Netflix binge and watch what is it the Tiger King you know or one of those crazy shows and just like lose yourself in a silly show for a few hours but I also think it is important to like sit with your feelings when you're ready and able and I personally I love journaling and I love journaling from that place of fear and the unknown and just like getting it all out on paper all those what-ifs like well you know I won't say all the what-ifs because they'll just they're really scary thoughts and then just writing it all out and then also writing from my voice of compassion and reassurance that okay we've been through hard things like your ancestors have been through hard things like people survive and if they don't if you don't survive if you don't survive you don't survive like you can't worrying about it isn't gonna make it go away right like it's life is always uncertain and I think the reality of the situation is just bringing that to the forefront I think we've gotten really kind of lazy in the fact that we've been safe and tomorrow any of us could wake up with cancer or tomorrow you could get in the car and crash and die and that's just kind of how life works and I guess if you could kind of get comfortable with that I think you can start to feel safer and more confident that you're gonna get through this so there's a show on Netflix and it's called Midnight Gospel have you heard of this?

No.

No it's actually it's a cartoon but it's her adults and it's about this person who goes into this simulated reality chooses a planet in this simulated universe and goes to a different one each time and finds a guest for his podcast on this thing but the conversations they have are really deep and just incredible so one of his guests said if people could actually really accept the fact that they were gonna die they would live their life so differently like the problem I think with like or I think what he was saying was with fear the problem is that people don't they don't register that they're really gonna die not to make it depressing this podcast is about death but just just in terms of like you know like I think you are right and I think that this is really good advice for myself too because I know that I start spinning in terms of like what's gonna happen everything's uncertain I'm not sure are people gonna you know is it are we gonna be living in this like crazy anarchy state tomorrow where people are just going around with guns and mugging people because they don't have anything and they're just trying to get what they can but the reality of the situation is like every thought that you have is a choice so I think you're right like we can sit in that anxiety but it doesn't help because whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen anyway so how do you choose to spend your time and I think that's really challenging because you get swept up in things like the news or the collective energy or whatever is going on outside you know it's like when you open your window and you watch people going outside with masks I know that that's the new normal but that still shakes me up a little bit you know and so it just feels so 1984 ish yeah you're not alone no it's it's scary for a lot of people well so and then well that brings me to do you want some tips for just like how to ground yourself because I think a little bit of what you're saying too is just how so many people are just feeling ungrounded by all of this yeah I think that would be great actually okay yeah so there are things and some of them are silly and people probably already know you already know but literally like going outside and taking your shoes off and walking in the grass is so grounding for our bodies and so good for us and then doing deep breathing like deep abdominal breaths where you actually don't move your chest you can put your hand on your stomach and your chest and you don't move your upper chest you just move your abdomen is there a count do you do a count with that or is that just totally count you could do like a four count and circular breathe four in and then four out do you notice anything yeah I just instantly relax and I just feel this space inside of me and I think even just touching our bodies in a loving kind of way is so important yeah especially for some people that aren't with anyone you know like giving yourself that that touch your body and your brain don't know the difference if it's your hand or someone else's hand I'm like I'm gonna be touching myself off and even like rubbing your hands creating heat and then just like holding your eyes I think it'd be so good especially with all this what is that what is the effect of that because I do this meditation with this guy it's like a manifestation meditation and he always makes us do that at the end of it oh does he I don't know and then you like touch your eyes is that like some sort of does it like revive you or like yeah I for me it does I have I have not read any of the science behind it I'm sorry to say I'll have to do some research for you I just think there's something so soothing about it yeah yeah even though I was gonna say what's that you said even though we're not supposed to be touching your faces right now but I touch my face all the time I was watching the podcast that I did from yesterday and I was literally just like the opposite of what you should do oh it's so hard the other one that I was gonna say that's really good is essential oils and frankincense is really good for grounding too but if you use peppermint be very careful don't touch your eyes but just smelling peppermint or frankincense both can really help ground you and feel calm yeah it's amazing how essential oils are so effective like I have this little vial of lavender and it's amazing how well it works like the minute I just smell it and maybe it's just like mind over matter but I just completely relax like there's something so soothing and so calming about it yeah isn't that so cool too like we can do the opposite like we can smell something that reminds us of an awful experience and get triggered into negative feelings but we can also smell something different loving and beautiful and then feel calm and have peaceful memories come up yeah like today it was it's summer here it's the weather is so beautiful right now and I went for I went for my hike and I go to Mount Davidson which is like this hike kind of near me and there's this huge cross at the top of the mountain that you climb so I was like climbing I have my mask on and which I hate by the way I hate the mask I hate wearing it it feels so confining I can't wait until we go back to a space of not having to wear them I had it on my sunglasses are all fogging up and it was beautiful and I took it off and I could smell um the summer like you know it just has that very distinct the grass the just the trees just everything the the air is it has a certain smell to it and it totally took me back to my childhood and I just I don't know like that excitement of like going to the beach or you know you're going outside because you know and it was just it was so such a wonderful like thing that I couldn't get I was in such a funk this morning and I couldn't get from anything else that I did really like it's amazing how powerful that is how powerful your senses are right right you can like smell or touch or taste something and it takes you to I mean don't even get me started on the emotional eating that I've been doing like I had to stop buying ice cream bars I'm like that's it you gained 10 pounds that's it it's over it's just here we had to stop buying chips too because it's just been like chips at every meal and every snack yeah I know me too like I don't know what it is I'm just yeah I'm just yeah well and it's hard because we're home all day now too so it's so easy to snack I know we don't really I think I don't know for you but normally I'm out and about all day running around and it's like a whole week will go by and I won't be in my car and then I go to the grocery store and get my food and come home and that's it for the car it's not crazy do you miss like driving out every day oh yeah I actually would love to live in like Amsterdam where you ride your bike everywhere yeah that would be amazing you guys say it's not really like a bike town is it not really right now I could have rented the grocery store I guess I could it would take a while it would take a while yeah and then you'd have to take all those bags back yeah you know I don't miss my car at all although uh the other day I feel like quarantine I feel like this podcast is really important because I feel like quarantine is just a giant game of how do I soothe myself it's like some level so the other day and I've been like really throwing myself into my work but you know sometimes you got to get away from that screen sometimes the screen is really depressing as well you know yeah I worry about two things happening with this pandemic one is that we're going to all have technology addictions and two is that we're all going to be agoraphobic oh yeah really I didn't even think of that yeah so many people are getting more and more afraid to go out and to get close to people and yeah and they keep talking that this could last a long time you know and I think people are really feeding into that idea of just staying home for a year until there's a vaccine and then feeling safe to go out well it is I mean you can tell people are really uncomfortable like when I when I'm walking up the street because I'll walk to Mount Davidson and when I walk up the street I will live if I see somebody on the sidewalk I will go walk in the street so that I can like people are just avoiding people and I mean I it makes a lot of sense like I always thought I'm like oh my god the minute that they call this quarantine off people are going to be so excited and they're just going to be out but but I was thinking like for me personally I would want to wait it out a few months just to make sure I know I know I agree yeah it's going to be a while I think we're really going to change I think a lot of things are going to change like businesses like I think a lot of therapists aren't going to go back to work in an office I imagine a lot of people will just continue to do telehealth yeah I feel like the remote working thing is really going to be a huge thing like that's going to be a big big change that we're going to do like maybe there will be an office for like in-person meetings and stuff like that because I I do feel like even though in a lot of ways I do love the remote thing it's not the same you know like as being in the same room with somebody and feeling their energy like I think with like especially like with the therapist like I wouldn't want to do this over zoom for the long haul you know because it's just like because you guys are such healers and it's just it's about being in the same room with you and kind of like working it out but I can I think you're right I think that a lot of people are going to continue with zoom and this is going to be a bigger thing and like even you know people who are working in like corporate jobs I mean I really wonder what this is going to mean for the economy to be honest with you at the end of the day because it's like you know all these people who can't do their jobs anymore I mean my sister works for the for the Y and she's just like it's amazing like the food kitchens are just there's like a line out the door now you know like I mean you like they don't have enough food for everybody who's coming because now they have all these Uber drivers and Lyft drivers and all these people who work in the service industry who aren't making any money who are going to the food banks to get some food the collective trauma like I think that the trauma of this is going to far I think the economical trauma is going to be more devastating than actually the disease the virus you think so I do I mean I think people are really struggling right now financially and it's really scary yeah and like you were saying too in other countries too and the ripple effect of that it's so hard because it's like you see everything that's going on here with you know people really want the country to open back up and I understand that you know like I can't be Pollyanna about this and say like oh no we should stay home and we should be safe because people need to eat they need to feed their families they need to pay their bills so it's like until there's like a viable solution that allows people to stay home and afford that like in Greece most people live on 400 euros a month the government is giving people 800 euros a month to stay home so they're making like twice what they would make so that they can stay home during this thing but also in Greece you know they have like maybe like a hundred cases or something ridiculous it is so low don't quote me on that number but it is so low right now that it's like they're doing such a good job with the quarantine and we need that with our government like we need our government to back us up like this well that's another forceps form of trauma that people are experiencing like from having this narcissistic leadership you know that's just so self-serving and just like these press conferences where I don't know if you want to get into the politics but it's yeah it's really devastating for a lot of people that have had that experience in their life and their family system that this is our leadership now well I mean because I think that's the other problem that you're seeing too right is that we're so divided as a country and there's you know some people who really they're scared they want to stay home and they want to and then there are other people who are like I just want to go out I think you're right I like part of me really struggles with because I don't know what the outcome of this is gonna be and I feel like there's so much with the coronavirus that we don't know you know partly because it's new but also partly because I think that there's a lot that we we're just not finding out and so I think my biggest concern is like like how do we keep ourselves sane number one until we figure out what's going on you know because everybody's talking about opening up May 15th and I'm just like I need to break it to you but if we open up in July we're really lucky yeah it's kind of how I'm feeling and I don't think people like the other day I mean even I'm feeling it's like the other day I was like I have to get out of this house and I haven't missed my car at all it's been on the same tank of gas for like a couple a month now or whatever and I just went for a drive down the coast you know and it was just like and even though I was in my car the entire time it was just so nice to get out and do that and I saw people were at the beach like people were like in the water they were surfing they were swimming and it's just when I see that I'm like this is just a disaster just wait this is Italy just waiting to happen right now but I get it because people are going crazy you know I know we just saw the park the other day my husband and I were walking and somebody from our old gym one of the trainers with a huge group and she looked at us and she said oh it's okay this is my family and it was like 25 people but we're like okay I mean we're not here to judge but your family could still be contagious you could see this virus yeah I don't think we're totally getting it and I think that there's some frustration around that too so it's like you know you're dealing with people who like everybody's going nuts but then you see people that are going out and doing these things and I know like sometimes it strikes me too where I'm like what are you doing you're just putting us behind yes by doing this you know so it's like I feel like there's just this divide that's happening you know so hopefully better there's just so many question marks right like we just don't know enough we don't know how many people have it how many people actually have died from it and we don't know what to do to treat it we don't know if having it once it's going to build up immunity like it's just still so new but I think the most important thing is what you were saying is it all starts with us at home as individuals and if we don't have any self-care we can't really deal with any of this stuff so I love everything that you said about grounding yes and doing your self-care and setting boundaries because those are absolutely necessary things that you have to do and you know if you are quarantining by yourself make sure that you get that social engagement any way you can be so important I've been doing a lot of zoom happy hours which is not the same you know but just anything that you can do to just chat with people talk to people and stay connected because even though we're really isolated right now it's not going to be like this forever Jocelyn I love you I need to go but thanks for thanks for being on the show hold on a second I'm just going to take it off a record and then we can just talk for like a minute before you leave okay bye everyone bye