Being Together: What Do You Do?

Welcome!

I imagine you might be familiar with me.

My name is Charles and I can just maybe introduce what this is or might be,

Although we don't know exactly what it's going to be.

This is a group of Insight Timer teachers that we've been meeting together for the past several years on a weekly basis and it's become a really special part of my life and we just thought we would try sharing it with you as Insight Timer has opened up the possibility for video.

So we wanted to experiment with the four of us meeting in this format and seeing how it goes to just share it with you.

So we have a certain way that we go about meeting each week and we'll kind of do something similar to that,

But really this is experimental and we're just kind of going to see what happens.

So along with that,

Something that we do to begin each one of these sessions is something called a withhold,

Which is like,

It's a cool thing that can be implemented in a variety of different ways,

But it's just like a space before we get started into whatever it is that we're going to be doing where people can share whatever they might have to share that maybe feels separate from the exploration itself or that might feel good to share at the outset to kind of allow you to be more present during the time.

So that being said,

You don't have to share it right away,

But any of you,

And maybe it'd be a chance to maybe introduce each other,

But you could see if you have any withholds right now before we move into this exploration together.

I can go.

So,

Yeah,

Withhold would be just expressing what I'm feeling right now and because this is like a new terrain for us and video is for the first time,

You know,

That we four together,

We are kind of recording this video.

We don't usually record,

But we just,

You know,

Talk.

So I'm just kind of reflecting on what,

How do I show up in this video and how do I show up in this and for that,

For me,

It is being,

I think two words are coming up,

Being mindful and also being relaxed because,

You know,

Mindful,

Through mindfulness,

I'm really present with what's happening,

But also with being relaxed,

I can be myself in this video.

So I'm just giving myself the permission to be myself in this video.

And just another withhold is that,

You know,

I am experiencing some cough.

I was diagnosed with chronic bronchitis in my childhood.

So I have like seasons of cough.

So this is kind of the season of cough.

So yeah,

I just want to ask for your pardon if I cough in between.

Thanks.

I like that too,

Like mindful and relaxed,

Which is sort of nice to notice too,

Because there's just the four of us here,

But you could also feel maybe some presence of someone else or other people that could add to a certain tension that maybe doesn't need to exist,

But also could be excitement,

Like energy,

The possibility of sharing this more broadly.

So I just appreciate you saying that.

And I can feel the permission,

I think for myself to,

To relax.

There could also be the need to like introduce people at the outset.

I think I might feel comfortable just letting that happen organically,

Like when the time feels right,

As opposed to having to move into a standard type of introduction.

Certainly,

You're free to do that.

Because I felt like pulled to maybe introduce each person.

But I think on the relaxed side,

It might be nice to just kind of let that happen organically,

If that works for everybody.

Yeah,

Any other withholds or anything you might just like to say,

Or express right now?

I can jump in.

Yeah,

This is weird.

This is totally different.

I appreciate Saqib for for saying that it felt good hearing you say that.

There,

This is what we've been doing for several years.

And we go deep and we get real personal and intimate,

And it's been tremendously valuable.

And it's now televised.

You know,

So I am aware of that.

And I think my intention,

Perhaps our intention was understanding that cost,

That there's now a whole other group of people watching this,

The cost of that.

But stepping into that,

With a curiosity around maybe there could be something valuable for all of our communities and say,

Timer in these conversations that have brought so much to us.

So it's obvious that this is being recorded,

But it's nice to just say it out loud and be like,

Oh,

Yeah,

It's the same,

But also totally different.

Yeah,

Just you saying that to maybe think that there could even be a,

I don't know how to describe it,

But like a unique added benefit for us in the space to like to add some extra element of vulnerability,

Where it could otherwise feel quite comfortable.

Maybe some added element that could even allow us to go possibly deeper together,

Because there is some of that feeling like it just gave me the feeling of like being on the surface of something and then with the possibility to go in.

But there being some barrier maybe like to getting there.

Yeah,

I like that.

It's not trying to make this our own mastermind,

But instead being open to this new thing that's here and the new possibilities that are also available here.

Yeah,

Anything else to share just right now?

Not that there needs to be.

Yeah,

I guess I noticed my tendency to want to perform until like knowing,

Okay,

Well,

Someone's going to be listening to this.

So what will be valuable for them?

How do we elicit them doing their own withholds with their people?

There's always something in me that's trying to impart a lesson.

I'm just noticing that part really loud of like,

Lou,

You should have a good withhold to show an example of what a withhold is so people can use it and make it valuable for them.

So just naming that because I think it's a really good intention.

It's a thing that's helped me in my work.

And is that going to get in the way of more of a deeper experience that we all can have and just trust that just that is valuable for us?

And we are all,

I know,

Big fans of Rick Rubin that if we enjoy doing this,

Can we trust that the audience may enjoy it or it doesn't even matter?

Yeah.

I love that too.

It's like cliche,

I guess,

But to have that as an option of something to say,

Which is the thing that's like the subtext of,

I have an urge to say this thing,

But I have the insecurity about what's my motivation for saying it.

So I can just say that.

I have an insecurity about saying the thing,

And that could be a thing to say,

Which can just like,

I feel like it is a perfect sort of withhold example.

Okay.

Well,

I realize also it won't be as long as we usually go for this one.

So maybe we can just like drop into a little guided meditative something guided by me and I'll facilitate the space possibly just for a question.

I think a pretty simple question.

And then it'll just be a few minutes longer,

I think after the meditation here in our first time together to explore how you answer this question.

It's a very common question.

But one we might find ourselves answering potentially like on autopilot or coming up with a pretty clear script.

So my guidance will be to allow maybe an answer to just come as a discovery in this moment to see what happens.

Okay.

So you can make any adjustments to your body,

To your surroundings.

So just be a few minutes of kind of settling,

Resetting,

Reopening.

You can notice if there's any tension in the body that might like to be released or softened,

Or maybe let go of a little bit.

And if you like here,

Your eyes can be closed.

They don't have to be,

But if that feels right,

They can.

And maybe a few deep breaths or just letting the breath breathe,

However it might like to,

Noticing if there's any constricting of the breath that's happening and just kind of letting it pass through you unblocked,

An open channel for the breath.

Maybe just giving yourself permission to be exactly as you are right now.

Maybe releasing any sense of pressure in this moment on yourself and on others.

And becoming just a little bit more present,

Whatever that means to you.

Just a little bit more fully here.

Noticing if there's any energy that might be habitually moving then and there and seeing if you can corral it and bring it back to just being here and open to the complete mystery of present moment awareness.

And now in this space of presence,

I have a question.

Maybe it's like a two-part question.

It's one that might be a pretty familiar one,

But I would like to give you permission here to answer just in the way that you would really like to,

Or that feels maybe the most true.

Least concerned about how someone might receive it or how they might interpret it or if they would understand it,

And just the way that you feel like answering it honestly in this moment.

What do you do?

This is the question,

Maybe a stranger or maybe a small talk situation,

But here really going inside and finding out,

What is it that I do?

So just I'll leave you a little bit of space here to see if you can come at some answer.

It could be detailed,

It could be quite simple,

It could maybe make no sense.

The question is just,

What do you do?

And just see what arises for a little while.

It might be I blank,

Or it might be I am N,

Or I am A blank.

And for a little while longer,

Just kind of owning this answer,

Physically owning the answer,

Whatever feels most true for you.

Okay,

Now you might just take a few more deep breaths here.

And allow the body to release again,

Relax again,

Become present again.

And then very gradually,

If your eyes were closed,

You can just allow them to reopen whenever they feel like it,

No rush.

Okay,

We might just leave a little while longer here.

If everyone's comfortable,

Just maybe answering.

And maybe we could go in the order of just whoever volunteers to answer with their answer to the question coming from here.

Maybe it was a really like easy one or obvious one,

Or maybe it's something kind of new for you.

But what do you do?

Yeah,

I can go because I had something new emerge,

Which was really,

Really cool.

And I just followed this trail of what do I do?

And there's like the initial script that you mentioned,

I think you prefaced everything really well to like not go with the script.

And I'm still like,

Don't even really know the script.

I'm still figuring out what that script is.

I'm also in a time in my life right now where it feels like that script is super flexible and changing.

And so what came to mind was actually the is a roomy quote of in a song that I that I learned to sing called,

Let the beauty of what you love be what you do.

And so I that came to mind and I was thinking,

Okay,

What's the beauty of what I love?

That's the first step before finding what to do.

What's the beauty of what I love?

And then what came to me was,

I love the fullness of feeling alive.

It was almost like a feeling that I'm searching for this experience of being fully alive.

And in the last six months,

I've been understanding this word Zoe,

Which apparently is in the Bible like hundreds of times,

It's a Greek for meaning absolute fullness of life.

And when I heard this word,

It's like,

Yes,

That's what that's I know that feeling.

I know that state.

And I know that's the life that I'm creating in many ways of absolute fullness of life with work relationships,

Just in every aspect of life.

And so when I thought of,

Well,

What I do,

The word that's always been a North Star for me is inspire.

And so what emerged from those two things was I inspire fullness of life.

And the caveat is,

I really believe that we have to be like when we think of purpose,

It's more of a being and then doing.

And so in my own journey of being fullness of life,

That's a way that I am inspiring fullness of life in other people.

And then the doing,

I call like the opportunities.

Okay,

What are the opportunities?

It's the meditations,

Talks,

All those things that we I think all do,

But it's at a deeper level,

Inspiring fullness of life.

So if I hear that right,

It's like maybe the quote unquote work portion of it is almost secondary,

Or it's like a byproduct of the way of living.

Exactly.

Like I think people conflate purpose and opportunity and they seek opportunities,

But they're really wanting purpose.

It's like,

You know,

Right now we all have opportunities to create meditations.

And I've been thinking about this because I have a session on Wednesday where I'm exploring this,

So it's fresh in my mind.

I think purpose is something that we would have been able to do 300 years ago.

And so let's say just simply like no one was a life coach 300 years ago.

So if you think your purpose is being a life coach,

I would say that's an opportunity to live your purpose.

Or no one was recording meditations 300 years,

They were leading meditations,

They weren't recording it.

So we have an opportunity,

But it's not my purpose.

And so I think a purpose is framing it more as a way of being is like,

Well,

Then the opportunities come.

Like how do I can always live my purpose right now,

I can go out to the grocery store and inspire the fullness of life.

I can go out there.

There's never like,

I don't need to wait for an opportunity.

And I think starting with that,

I think relieves a lot of people to think I need to find that one thing that I'm here to do,

Which they conflate the purpose with the opportunity,

If that makes sense.

Yeah,

Let me just say too,

I guess I could call it like a mid-session withhold,

Like just for the sake of where you all stand,

How do you feel about the time of like the session?

Like,

Do we have a sense of,

I just want to be aware.

So I'm facilitating us to kind of like end at a certain time.

But yeah,

I think that's a good question.

I mean,

You all have a sense of- I think it's the first one.

Yeah,

I think we flow a little.

I know we talked about like 30 minutes.

Yeah.

Let's try that,

But like not stop it prematurely.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Because I was also saying or thinking,

Which maybe just naturally will happen,

Like Lou shares this,

And maybe that just inspires conversation as it relates to it,

Doesn't have to move necessarily into the next person shifting or away from their,

That response.

Yeah.

I don't think it's fluid.

It's not like set.

Yeah.

And it's like,

I'm geeking out here.

I love behind the scenes stuff.

Like we're showing you how this thing is being made.

And it's,

As a fan,

I love watching this stuff and just seeing the thought process.

So yeah,

Let's flow,

See what happens.

Sounds good.

Because there's something that Lou said there,

Like the fullness of life thing.

It was making me think of,

I feel like increasingly,

Maybe as it relates to opportunities,

I find myself using that as a barometer for what to say yes to and what to say no to.

Like,

Does this opportunity,

While it might very logistically be like,

Yeah,

I should obviously do that because it presents these potential outcomes or returns.

But then I'm like,

I know I wouldn't really want to do it.

Or when the time comes to do that task,

I'll be like,

Oh,

I have to do that thing.

That feels like not feeling fully alive.

But then I also wonder sometimes if I might just avoid doing those things and say that they're not fully alive in my mind.

Whereas I could maybe engage with them in a different way.

This maybe sounds like not making sense because I'm just thinking of a specific example recently.

It was an opportunity from Insight Timer.

And they emailed me as it relates to something related to therapy.

And like participating in some way with the therapist community on these certain topics.

And immediately,

I find it boring,

Basically.

I don't want to fit into the prescribed,

I am this type of therapist.

And even my body language,

I realize it's judgmental.

None of that has to be that way.

If you identify in a certain way,

Then there's no problem with that.

I noticed I have some resistance to a certain way of being.

And I get this particular email,

And I immediately color it in a certain way.

And I might have the tendency to be like,

No,

I don't want to do that.

But I paused and then responded in a way that I was like,

Let me just respond in a way that feels true to me.

And they can say no to that.

And that'd be fine.

And then they responded positively to that.

Because I was like,

I just want to make sure you're reaching out to the right person.

Because I feel like I don't maybe identify with this thing.

And then they're like,

Yeah,

That's great.

Go in the direction that you want to go in.

So that may or may not make sense.

But I noticed the aliveness thing sometimes can maybe is a good guide,

But it can also maybe block me to certain opportunities too.

Just a quick feedback on that,

Because it reminds me of,

I don't know if you guys have listened to or read the Michael Singer's Surrender Experiment.

I listened to it again recently for the third time.

And it's an example of exactly what you're saying,

Charles,

Not just doing what you want.

Like,

Oh my gosh,

This doesn't light me up.

There were so many times in his life where life was asking him to do something that he really didn't want to do.

And his whole thing was,

If I surrender to this and trust the flow of life,

It's going to bring him to a much better place than he could have created.

So yeah,

I think we're touching on some paradoxical things here.

I think there is some truth to leaning into the aliveness.

And how do we know?

How do we know what's best for us?

It makes me wonder,

What's the opposite of alive?

Because I think sometimes people think the opposite of alive is sad or angry.

But if you zoom out,

It's like the alive human experience has space for rage,

Has space for grief.

So it's not just following your joy.

You know,

Maybe the opposite of alive is dull or boring or numb or dim.

So that example,

Charles,

Maybe it's like,

If that felt boring to you,

That could maybe be then,

Yeah,

That makes sense.

But similar to what Lou's saying,

It's not just following the bliss.

It's the alive.

Parts of life sometimes suck when you're in them,

But they're truly emotionally alive and necessary.

I think that's where the decision comes from.

Is this the ego which is deciding?

Or is it the Tao or the universe or the flow?

Because ego might be attached to doing joyful things or blissful things or things that only bring joy.

Whereas the Tao is like,

Sometimes you have to do things which are hard or which you don't like or which feel boring,

As Darius said.

But then that is equally important to do.

So I think when that happens,

I kind of reflect,

Is this my ego attached to joy or bliss or just doing things which I enjoy?

Or is the Tao asking me to do something hard which I might be resisting,

If that makes sense?

It does,

Yeah.

So I think in my example too,

There was probably a part of me that knew it was,

Who knows what will happen.

I don't know if I'm even going to end up doing the thing,

But knew that it was something maybe to lean into or to respond to because I asked my wife about it.

Whereas I could have just said no.

So maybe by asking her about it,

I think I knew that I was going to receive pushback from her because she tends to be like,

She'll give me the other side,

Which is really valuable,

I think.

She was like,

Yeah,

That makes sense.

But also,

I think you might just be dismissing it maybe prematurely when you could just offer to do it in the way you want to do it.

And so I think by me asking,

There was some sort of internal awareness of it is maybe the Tao.

And who knows,

You can never know for sure if it's the Tao or the ego.

And I suppose ego is probably ultimately always still involved in some way.

But yeah,

Just as I hear you reflect that back,

I wonder if there was a part of me that just kind of,

I wouldn't have asked her for her perspective,

If not for wanting some pushback.

Even that makes me ask,

So is the ego not a part of human aliveness?

You know,

It's like,

What is not alive?

Yeah,

I think I would say if the ego works in alignment with the Tao or the universe or flow,

Whatever we want to call that,

Then it's alive.

But if there is a resistance or a battle between the ego and what the flow is,

Then I feel it's not that alive.

Like,

For example,

Trying to flow upstream,

Whereas the stream is taking you,

Although flowing upstream can also be a joyous activity in some way,

Make you feel alive.

But yeah,

More in the sense of- If you're aware that that's what you're doing,

Maybe.

Yeah.

Or sometimes it needs to suck.

You do that,

It sucks,

You feel like crap,

And that contributes to the journey.

You know what I mean?

It's a complicated or maybe really simple thing,

Alive.

Because you hear it a lot,

Like,

I just want to feel alive.

And it's like,

Are you saying I just want to be happy in stealth?

Or are you like,

Oh no,

I want the fullness of the human experience?

Because that makes me think about,

Like you said,

Alive can be all those different emotions.

See if I can articulate this,

But there could be something there where there's the,

You know,

I could feel sad,

Or I could feel frustrated,

Or I'm in the thick of the work,

And I'm not liking it.

But I can be fully accepting of that,

Because I know it's part of it.

And that is alive,

And I know it,

And I know this is part of the thing.

Or I feel intense sadness and pain,

But I'm not resisting the reality of that,

Because I know it's a part of being alive.

Maybe there's something like a distinction of,

I feel those,

And I wish that they didn't exist,

Or I wish that I didn't have to feel them.

Or it's like,

It's something that's happening to me that I wish wasn't here.

It makes me think of like the cliche too,

Of how,

You know,

The distinction between pain and suffering.

You know,

Like the pain is an inevitability,

The suffering is the optional thing where you're resisting the existence of these feelings.

I don't know if that could be maybe some distinction of aliveness,

The aliveness that,

Of course,

Like you said,

Includes all the different emotions and experiences of being a human,

But you embrace the reality of all those different parts of it,

Or the part where it's like,

Yeah,

I don't want this,

And I don't want this,

I only want this.

Yeah,

It's like a few moments in my life where I felt incredibly alive happened in,

You guys familiar with like core energetics or radical aliveness,

Like therapy?

It's a kind of like extreme form of therapy where I think radical aliveness,

Core energetics is a modality,

Radical aliveness is a brand that's done in group,

And you essentially energize the ego,

Like the darkest marginalized parts of you,

And you need a master facilitator and a,

You know,

This group that holds it together too,

And you explore the shadow.

It's very informed by Carl Jung and,

You know,

That school of therapy and psychology,

And it's like there's exercises where you have like a cube,

For example,

And you have a mallet and you got gloves on and you just smash and the facilitator,

The therapist sometimes done in group have to clue into like,

What is that thing you are not saying?

It's sort of like a radical withhold,

You know,

And it's,

And then they figure it out in a very simple language and they invite you to smash the cube and say the thing that you've been terrified to say your whole life,

And it's like the ego gets super energized,

And the point of this isn't to like just walk out in rage,

But instead if you go to the edge of whatever that emotion that you've been hiding,

You discover God,

You discover self and spirit,

You know,

And it really does feel alive,

And so it's like,

Yeah,

There's something about that that feels connected to this conversation around like,

Is it certain feelings we are picking or are we actually open to the full spectrum?

I think the essence of what we're talking about is living with an open heart,

An undefended heart,

Because it's those wounds and protectors that say,

You know,

This is not welcomed,

Let's shut that down,

Or,

And it's going to shut down us,

You know,

There's a common thing that,

You know,

The more heartbreak we can feel,

The more joy we can feel,

Because our hearts are actually fully open,

And the reason we're not in fullness of life is all of those woundings,

All of those shadow parts that are just protecting us in some way from not feeling the thing we're afraid to feel,

But it's also protecting us in some ways from feeling so much more,

So I really do think,

I agree,

Darius,

That it is feeling,

Feeling period,

All of it,

And being able to transmute it,

I think there's,

It's like going to the gym,

You have to work on it,

And you know,

You might not be able to lift the hardest thing the first day,

And so you don't want to overextend,

Because that could not be,

That could be dangerous to put more weight on the bar and try to lift it and get hurt yourself.

We're going deep,

Guys,

I like it.

I think to your question,

Charles,

What do you do,

I'll also share,

I think it's in also in relation to what we were discussing till now,

The answer that came to me was just simple IB,

And like you said,

I and fill in the blanks,

The only word that came was B,

And you have to expand on that.

I would say that,

Like lately,

I feel that there are like phases in my life when I feel like the,

When I'm guided by something greater than me,

You know,

And I could maybe call it the Tao or,

Or anything like that,

Or the universe.

And there are times when I feel that there's no guidance coming.

And it's always the ego deciding.

And,

And when I feel it's the ego deciding,

Then I know that I'm thinking a lot,

I'm rationalizing a lot,

Should I do this?

Should I do that?

Now,

Let's plan,

Let's analyze.

Whereas,

When the Tao speaks,

It's,

It's like,

It's,

It's just annoying.

And yeah,

I just know.

And so,

At times,

I don't feel that annoying.

And so lately,

I made this intention that I have to like really surrender and not let the ego take control so much,

Although he was in alignment with,

You know,

What the Tao is,

And I feel that they work best when they work in alignment,

The Tao and the ego and ego being a part of the Tao somehow.

But the more I surrender,

Like trying to think from the mind,

And the more I be,

The more life feels more aligned.

And I know that this is the right thing for me to do.

But whereas,

If I'm thinking that this is what I should do,

It might be something great,

You know,

I might do end up doing some great things,

Earn a lot of money,

You know,

Or,

Or create some great work,

But somehow it is not still aligned with who I am.

And sometimes when I,

When I just be whatever work I do,

It might not create that impact.

But still,

It feels like very good and very aligned.

So like,

That is just when I when I be I know that my life is just flowing in the right direction.

Whereas,

When the ego takes control,

It somehow it doesn't.

So yeah,

I be.

It made me wonder too,

If like,

Maybe that's what so many people are working for,

Like consciously or unconsciously to be able to reach a point at which I can just be like,

That might be the reason why I'm doing so much so I can finally have the ability to breathe or like relax,

But not yet.

And I like that idea of that's like my occupation is to be.

I was also just thinking of how like,

It'll be a pretty fun answer to give in response to someone asking you that question.

Oh,

And like,

What do you do?

I be.

And like to just see,

See if they what they say or how they respond.

But it did remind me to in this has been a really cool thing for me on Insight Timer in my courses and like the comments sections have become these pretty cool.

It's pretty cool part of my life because I go through and I respond to questions and comments in my courses every day.

And it seems like that has fed the energy of people leaving more and more.

And I'm constantly learning from them.

And then someone will provide a new perspective or a new quote or a new like,

Like,

No matter anytime I go in there,

I'm going to get something new from people being willing to share.

And something someone said the other day just reminded me of that.

They were like,

It's like we're.

It's like we're looking for a noun,

But what we're actually looking for is a verb.

And I just thought that was really cool because and that's what that made me think of.

It's like,

You know,

You might have some implied assumption that you're on the search for a noun,

Um,

Whatever that search might be,

But really what you're looking for is a verb.

So you're going to miss it no matter what,

Because there's the implied notion that like it's a noun,

It's a fixed thing.

Um,

And that just immediately came to my mind,

Like,

You know,

What am I?

Because the mind has attached to some idea of a noun label.

And then it's fun to break that rule and be like to replace it with a verb or something that doesn't fit into that familiar paradigm.

Yeah,

I love that.

That also reminds me of like what Alan Watts said that like,

You know,

We usually call it a tree,

But it is not actually a tree.

It's a stream.

Yeah.

Every moment it's,

It's,

You know,

Changing and but the mind like has a tendency to fix it somehow.

Tree.

Yeah.

There's a article that the Center for Action and Contemplation writes,

Like as part of their monthly offerings or something,

But they call it one-ing.

So instead of like,

We are all one,

Actually,

No,

We're all one-ing.

We're on the way towards one,

Like we're trying to one,

Like in an ultimate sense,

You might say we are one,

But it kind of gives like,

I don't know,

Reminds me of the energy that we're talking about here.

Such a cool,

Such a cool distinction to talk about process and outcome in a different way.

Also reminds me of my nine-month-old baby.

He's just being,

You know,

He like wakes up and he's like,

I'm up.

What are we doing?

Let's do the thing.

You know,

Like at that level of consciousness,

He doesn't maybe understand the human job,

Work,

And it's just being,

Oh,

There's a,

We recently gave him a potato and it's like,

We have all these toys for him,

But the potato,

Oh my gosh,

Just playing with the potato.

And it's like,

Oh,

There's the next toy.

I'm just going to be here with this next thing.

So it's funny that we do all this work to sort of like come back to where we started.

Yeah,

Maybe that's the art form is like,

Because the human mind is such like a miracle of our ability to use words and to learn skills and things like,

But then so easily we lose access to that.

Maybe the most essential thing,

Which is his like state of mind right now,

Which is so pure,

But to find some way to combine those,

Where you're still deeply rooted in being,

But then you can use your words or you can use your skills and techniques and all this stuff as a way of expressing and playing with that energy or like it to be aware of me.

And inevitably there is some egoic element of me,

But to not be beholden to that and mainly be like rooted in the me that is maybe the same awareness that he has and that all of us have always had and still have.

It's just like the,

Yeah,

Being wonder,

Amazing consciousness thing.

I can answer your original question,

Charles.

I love your prompting.

It's so good.

It's so simple and it's so good at like detecting the decoy answer and inviting something else.

Yeah.

There's a couple of key moments where I'm like,

Oh,

That's my answer.

And then you kind of like,

Oh,

Try to step away from that script.

So I'm going to,

I don't think I've ever,

No,

I've never said this.

So this is what came through only after you're like third or fourth prompting.

And I believe this true for everyone,

But like it was when you said I am,

I'm like,

This feels risky and I don't want to say it to you guys,

Let alone whoever else was watching,

But it's actually true.

I really do believe I am just like you are God.

I am God experiencing universe through soul that has chosen a human experience to explore,

Experience,

And then express.

So as you were guiding us in that little practice,

I just saw like the coming down to that level.

And that last level is for me is really important.

Experience,

Explore,

Express,

God,

Spirit,

God,

Universe,

Spirit,

Human here to express something in the human form,

Which kind of ties back to the conversation earlier around like the full spectrum of the human form.

Do you have a sense of what that,

The thing to express is,

Or like,

Is that also God?

I think,

Like,

Imagine all the manifestations of God.

Yeah.

Right.

So all of it.

Yeah.

There's no one thing,

No one way.

There's no one like you won an Oscar.

So your expression is more important than this person over here who,

You know,

Made a garden or made an omelet or,

You know,

As long as it's like,

It's alive,

Like we talked about,

Right?

As long as it's,

Yeah,

Everyone's version is different.

I think it depends what you,

How you do it.

Like,

If it's done with love,

With care,

With your whole being,

There's behind me,

You see a poem by Khalil Gibran called On Work.

And one of the last lines in the poem is like,

It's,

If you bake bread with indifference,

You bake a bitter bread that feeds but half man's hunger.

And then there's another one.

And then he says,

Like,

If you sing,

But love,

Not the singing,

Your voice muffles the ears of people,

Basically,

Like,

So it's not even this thing that we think would be beautiful.

We might,

They might have a beautiful voice.

But if they're like,

I actually hate what I'm doing,

Then you're actually not adding to the harmony of the world.

You're not actually channeling what God's wanting to bring through you to use your experience.

So,

I really think it's,

It's never about the doing.

It's always about what you're putting into what you're doing,

How you're doing it.

And Darius,

I'll just say,

Like,

I noticed,

Just to speak it,

Because it feels like a withhold,

But when you,

When you said it,

And I know it was risky for you to say,

But I also,

I noticed a little,

Like,

Clenching in it,

Like,

Oh,

Like,

It almost felt,

It felt scary for me to hear,

Or to,

Like,

Think about that,

Or,

I don't know,

There was some,

Some clenching I noticed.

Why didn't it feel scary for you to hear?

I don't,

Well,

I just,

No,

It's not,

Maybe not scary,

But I don't know.

It feels scary for me to say.

Totally.

The first part,

Because I usually start over here,

Soul having human experience,

But the actual truth is,

I believe soul is a manifestation of,

Universe is a manifestation of God.

So,

It's like,

God,

You know,

It's a,

It feels risky to say,

I am God.

Totally.

Yeah,

And that's the felt,

I was like,

I don't,

It felt,

I felt the risk you took,

And I also had,

Like,

A questioning,

If I,

Like,

Do I believe that,

And is it,

There's a,

There's a sense that,

Like,

I don't,

If I'm trying to even name God,

Like,

I'm missing it.

I'm trying to say that I am something that I can't quite name,

Then there's something that I feel like I'm missing.

So,

There's almost a part in me being,

Like,

Yeah,

Just noticing,

Noticing,

Maybe,

A doubt in,

In it.

At the same time,

I think I would have sometimes said the same thing,

Too.

So,

I'm almost,

Like,

Reflecting my own experience of that answer,

And how I feel like it's changed to,

Like,

Claim that in a way.

I love this conversation,

And it's,

Like,

It's a,

It's a,

I feel like everyone I've had this conversation with disagrees with me,

Which is so interesting.

Like,

Do you believe there's anything,

Can you point to anything that is not God?

I,

I think there are things that are in service,

Like,

There's good and bad,

And I get on,

I think we've had this conversation before,

Because I'm remembering,

Like,

This answer,

Like,

Yeah,

Maybe on a non,

In a non-dual frame,

We could say this,

But I don't know.

I've never experienced quite that state to know,

But I do think there are things that are anti-life,

And that are opposing life,

They're opposing benevolence.

Do you believe that afterlife,

Before life,

Is not God?

No,

I,

I believe that is,

That is before and after where,

Where we are going,

And are there levels to it?

I don't know,

Like,

There's,

Um,

I don't know either.

Yeah,

It's,

Like,

What are the,

What,

Like,

What the heck is,

You know,

Dante's Inferno and Purgatory,

And,

Like,

What are,

Yeah,

There might be levels to where we actually,

You know,

Go,

And,

And,

What,

You know,

In the Samskara,

On the Buddhist term,

Like,

We didn't,

We didn't get there,

Right?

We didn't,

We didn't make it out,

You know,

What the bar,

There's so many of these different things on,

Like,

What,

I've just seen a lot of,

Uh,

Wacky stuff in the spiritual world,

To,

To,

To have an understanding,

And the humility that just because it's coming from spirit,

It,

That it may not always be of our best intent,

And of our best benefit.

You know,

I think there's some wacky,

Wacky side,

Side streets that I've walked down the spiritual path,

To have some kind of,

Like,

It's a very,

Actually a very controversial thing,

Because all of the worst in humanity,

I am basically saying,

Is also God.

Well,

That,

I,

I think that I have an easier time,

Like,

Believing.

That,

I don't know why,

It's like,

I have a,

I love the Joseph Campbell quote,

Like,

The world's a mess,

It's always going to be a mess,

Like,

Stop trying to change the world,

Change yourself,

Like,

I believe in that core philosophy,

And,

And can we trust that war is breaking out,

Like,

That's the hardest thing,

People are,

How can you say that everything's God,

When wars are breaking out,

And I think it's because we can't understand what actually people need to,

Like,

What needs to happen in a very cosmic way.

So,

I do believe that in some sense,

But I,

I don't know,

There's,

Like,

Some more nuance here,

That I've been just exploring in my own experience,

Too,

So,

Yeah.

I guess what you said about,

Like,

The question that you asked,

I think it's a beautiful question,

And that just,

Like,

Reminds me of,

You know,

A Sufi proverb,

And it says that wherever you turn,

Wherever you turn,

There is the face of God,

Wherever you turn,

There is the face of God,

And this is something,

Like,

I used to reflect on a lot when,

Especially when I would listen that,

You know,

God is omnipotent,

Omnipresent,

Omniscient,

Then if God is omnipresent,

Then,

Or in,

You know,

In everything,

Then,

Like,

How is this not God,

Like,

How is,

You know,

Hitler,

For example,

Not a part of God,

Or that,

And so,

Like,

I think a lot of that,

You know,

In my,

This is my personal opinion,

And,

You know,

This might,

Some might not agree with this,

That there's a religious connotation of,

Like,

Ignoring darkness,

And,

Like,

Judging darkness,

And judging,

Quote,

Unquote,

You know,

What we call evil,

And,

Like,

Only focusing on the light,

Whereas,

Like,

In my understanding,

In my experience,

God is both light and dark,

Both,

You know,

And that also,

Like,

Reminds me of Carl Jung's quote,

When he said that enlightenment cannot be achieved by just imagining figures of light,

But making the darkness conscious,

And so,

It's kind of,

Like,

For me,

That God represents everything,

And not just,

Like,

The light part.

It's so interesting how much it elicits,

Like,

Just that word,

And,

I mean,

It could just bring up a big discussion of what the word means,

As it's safer,

Maybe,

To say,

Like,

I am the universe,

Or I am spirit,

Or something,

But if,

You know,

Maybe just notice God,

Maybe that's the one that feels the truest,

And just the feeling of just owning it,

And saying it,

And the fear of how it's received.

It's interesting with,

Like,

I just released the course,

The God Note,

And,

Like,

I noticed that feeling,

Too.

I also,

Like,

Kind of enjoy it.

I don't know if you relate to that,

Darius,

At all.

Like,

There's a part of me that wants to just,

Like,

Invite that,

Even,

Because I know it's a misperception,

Or it's,

Like,

A misjudgment of,

Like,

What I'm attempting to say,

I know what I'm saying.

That's new for me.

Yeah,

I did not like it,

Because now I like it,

Because I reframed it.

We've talked about this before,

Charles,

Like,

It was the number one reason I get unfollows,

And,

Like,

People will literally jump in the comments and say,

I liked you so much until you said,

God,

I'm out of here,

Unsubscribed.

I'm like,

You could just unsubscribe.

You don't need to say that whole thing,

But the reframe for me became,

Like,

I understand people have had really bad experiences with God.

Like,

That's very,

Like,

Legitimate and valid.

People also have had really bad experiences with artists,

With men,

With money,

With art.

These are concepts that I really believe in,

And just because there's a few people that have done really bad things with them,

I'm not going to abandon those concepts.

How dare they try to steal those from us?

You know,

I'm going to be a stand for a good example of those things,

And that reframed helped me,

Like,

Okay,

I can own the truth.

This is a place where I'm hiding myself by calling it universe.

I respect people if they call it different things,

But that's not actually the experience I'm having.

And I would say,

Like,

What you said,

Lou,

I mean,

I feel like it can't ultimately be described like whatever it is,

But then you can just,

You know,

Use a word that feels like it's closest to the truth of it,

Given that you can't put it into words.

And I've just noticed that,

And I imagine it'll keep changing,

But for me,

God feels like the least conceptually tethered relative to,

At least recently,

Like to the Tao or Buddha or universe,

Or it's like,

God feels the most just like kind of energetic to me.

So that's the one that feels kind of true.

Maybe there's even something kind of nice about it feeling like risky or scary relative to other ones feeling safe that like makes it truer or something.

And I'll just share this too,

As it relates to the evil notion.

You can tell me what you think about this,

But to me,

Evil just makes perfect sense to me,

Just because at least the way that I think about it,

It's like ego that has suffered the illusion of separateness.

And so then it acts for itself and it is still God,

But it's like a cancer cluster in the body that doesn't realize that it's killing its host,

But it has like,

It's so deeply wired in it that it has to survive.

So it's going to keep trying to feed on the host,

But it's like killing itself.

It doesn't realize that.

And then it so easily pulls in other people's energy.

Like you get pulled into that separateness and hate,

And it's like,

Hurt people,

Hurt people,

That kind of thing.

It's just like,

It's just going to keep feeding itself.

But to me,

It just makes sense.

And I mean,

That to me connects sort of to the Buddha's Four Noble Truths.

And it's like,

All of our suffering is rooted in our sense of separateness and how we have a deeply embedded sense of separateness connected to the notion of a name and a whole story of me and however deeply attached I am to that separateness is going to lead me to act in ways that are evil,

Because I'm functioning based on the false perception of reality.

And then that will just feed more evil.

To me,

Maybe then like evil is such a loaded word,

Because it could just be like unskillful action or incorrect action or something like that.

That's where it lives to me.

At least that for me is helpful because it removes my sense of like,

Why is this happening?

Because to me,

It just makes a lot of sense that there would be so much hate and conflict because so much of the world is operating based on a misperception of reality that I am a separate entity and I need to protect those like me.

And there's so much of this rooted in the notion of separateness.

And then that leads to evil and evil wants more evil and it feeds on more evil.

But it's still all is God.

It's all the host body,

If that makes sense.

I know we're not really like,

Oh,

I guess I could share with you guys.

But in my mind,

It's like thinking of the audience here.

But I came up to evil in a recent plant medicine journey.

And it was horrifying to be with.

And it's just led me down a path of trying to understand my own inability to be with darkness.

And it led me to a book that I read.

If anyone's interested in the topic of evil,

It's such a weird thing to like promote.

But I don't know if you ever heard the book,

The Road Less Traveled.

It's like a classic personal growth book.

Not that book,

But it's by the same author,

Scott Peck.

And he wrote this book called People of the Lie and explores some,

Yeah,

It's really fascinating to understand a bit more.

So if that calls to you for whatever reason it might call to you,

That would be a book to check out.

And a lot of it that I've taken from it is lies.

Lies are such a big part of evil,

Like not being truthful with ourself,

Not being truthful with others.

That's a really malignant way that evil kind of is spreading on a day-to-day basis.

And once we tell the truth,

We shift that in some ways.

And I think the opposite of evil being live is really interesting because evil is like opposing life.

But once we rewrite it in our experience or face our own evil,

Like the classic look at our judgments before other people,

Once we rewrite that,

We're back in living.

We're living with life rather than opposing it.

Guys,

I did not expect us to go here.

This was way cooler than I thought.

It feels right for my session anyways.

How do you guys feel that we went into some deeper evil and God?

I mean,

For me,

That's the only place to go.

It's the only interesting place.

And it feels like we can keep going on and on and on like this longer discussion for hours.

Have you gotten pushback on the God note by using God?

I can imagine your audience you come from such an Eastern teaching that people might be like,

Charles,

We lost Charles or something.

Yeah,

Maybe I got a couple of emails,

Nothing in the course.

I imagine there's maybe less people playing it.

I did notice what Darius said.

It was the biggest number of unsubscribes from my email list when I sent out an email,

The God note now available.

It was the most unsubscribes I had gotten ever.

And there is part of me that like playfully likes that.

Something like that.

But yeah,

It felt like a and still kind of feels like a risk,

But not so much explicitly.

I think I did a good job of maybe explaining it without over explaining.

So at least in the intro session,

I explain what it is.

It's like,

It's just I gave myself a rule to not use any quotes or references.

And then this is happened.

But I don't really talk about this is what God means or doesn't mean to me.

But maybe people can get a sense of it from the beginning where they're not coming into it with a certain expectation that would be incorrect.

Yeah,

Well,

I realized we're coming up on an hour.

Maybe I could just share my answer briefly and then see if kind of come to a close for this time.

Um,

Yeah,

I thought about whether or not to like change mine.

But I still I feel like I am in a period of continuing to attempt to embody this particular answer.

And it is a noun.

But I think it's a verby noun.

Really?

So the answer,

What do I do?

What do you do?

And I've actually had a couple chances to like say this out loud in the you know,

Like it was pick up basketball at the gym,

Someone asked me,

You know,

In small talk scenario,

What do you do?

And I could easily be pulled to be like,

Therapist,

You know,

People can speak that language.

Teacher,

I do some teaching.

I guess it's nothing wrong with going that direction.

It just depends on what kind of maybe what kind of interaction I want to have.

But in that situation,

I wanted to just have an honest interaction.

And so my answer was,

I'm an artist.

And I can't remember if it went further than that.

I think he just sort of accepted it,

I'm an artist,

And I could go further,

But I like I am an artist,

And I think I've shared before,

I had an experience many years ago at this point where I was just I was driving in my car,

And I was listening to the Beethoven song in particular,

And it was like feeling quite emotional,

Just like in the crescendo of the song,

If you ever let yourself just really get into a certain piece of music,

It was like really moving,

And just all of a sudden I felt the welling up of this statement,

Like I am an artist,

Just like yeah,

Like that feels true,

Given that like the limitations of words,

It isn't true in a way,

But it's like that feels the truest,

If I was to say I am anything,

Or do anything like I am an artist,

And so I think,

But it has been interesting since then,

I think I have embodied that more,

And like taken practical steps for that to be more externally true,

Like taking art classes,

And things like that,

But also just seeing my work increasingly as art,

Like this to me feels like an art form,

And quote unquote therapy feels like an art form,

And creating meditation certainly,

Like and increasingly feels more like art,

And increasingly I view that stuff as like albums,

Or single meditations,

Or like single tracks,

Singles,

And albums,

And it's like this body of work,

Or a single sort of thing that I want to transmit,

But that just feels increasingly true,

And freeing for me,

Because I think yeah,

It's a noun,

But it's like,

To me,

It means I am discovering who I am through my work,

Increasingly,

And not to find a landing point,

But just for the rest of my life,

To be uncovering who I am via this particular creation,

Like it's nice to land on a creative project,

Like the course that I just made,

And it's like okay,

Now I have this thing,

And I can spend the rest of my time discovering what it wants to be,

If I'm willing to be present with it,

And open with it,

And vulnerable with it,

And then I'll inevitably will learn a little bit about,

A little bit more about myself,

Like through the creation process,

And just trust that I'll be maybe taken care of financially,

If I keep doing that,

I have some belief that if I do that,

And that it's not easy to do that,

I think it's actually quite difficult to really give yourself to work in that way,

But I do have some faith that I will,

Like the rest of stuff that I might otherwise grab for,

Will take care of itself,

If I am willing to like commit to being an artist in this way.

So yeah,

It just feels nice to say.

And yeah,

Any thoughts about that one?

You know,

I've got questions about this.

How long have you wanted to be an artist?

Do you remember?

Well,

I don't think like consciously known it until that moment.

I think it's always been like an unconscious or implied.

You mean the moment on the basketball court?

No,

The moment where I was driving in the car,

And like had that internal,

So that's probably like seven or eight years ago,

Where that felt like a reality.

So you,

Okay.

But I think that has been present my whole life,

Like going back to being a child and like drawing.

And I think I moved into sports,

Which maybe quieted that side of me.

Yeah.

So it's been a couple of years,

Seven,

Eight years.

And did something need to happen before you could own that statement?

I am an artist?

I think a part of me thought that,

But I believe already by that point,

I can align with the reality that I am an artist.

Like if I just feel that that's true internally,

Then there actually doesn't need to be any external proof for that.

Like I don't have to have created a work of art or have anybody say that I've created art.

I remember feeling it and there was a part of me that's like,

No,

That like,

That's not true.

Because you need someone to say that that's true,

Or you need to have like,

Well,

I made this work of art,

And it's definitely a work of art.

Maybe my book,

Like I feel like that was art,

Like that maybe my first thing that I created that really felt like art.

So I had already written that at that point.

So maybe I did have some like,

External proof of it.

So like,

Yes and no.

I'm curious,

Darius,

Because I know Charles,

You know,

Your path has for sure shown the follow the art,

The money will come.

I'm curious,

Darius,

Your thoughts on that as being someone who is kind of works with artists and also very entrepreneurial on the business end.

If you agree with that,

Like in a whole hearted way,

Like if someone would just cliffhanger,

Someone would just Oh,

All right.

We'll be back with Lou in 321.

I think I got the gist of his question.

Yeah,

His question was around like,

Oh,

He's back.

Well,

Sorry,

Guys.

We'll figure that out in post.

Yeah,

If someone would just trust 100% fully or art,

Not like letting the business part take care of itself.

Yeah,

I,

From what I've seen,

The most important thing you could do as an artist is to let go and make space for creativity,

Whatever you want to call it to flow through you.

And things that can take up space and become really dense are expectations.

These expectations of like,

I'm going to be a Grammy winner,

I'm going to make this much money as an artist.

And so it's like,

It's just like seeming paradox of like,

It's good to have goals.

But if those goals,

Those outcomes are like bricks in your backpack,

It makes it really hard for you to walk down your path.

And the people I've seen succeed the most are the ones that are following their joy and are just like,

I'm having so much fun.

This is so much fun.

Because joy is the answer to consistency.

And if you can solve for consistency,

That's more important than solving for talent,

Solving for confidence.

You know,

It's like the ones that could play the game the longest end up getting better and having more talent and more confidence.

And so my thing is like,

Yeah,

Follow joy,

Play as full heartedly as you can.

Don't ignore the realities of bills,

Or else that's going to catch up to you.

And you're going to like,

You know,

Perceive this whole experience as a waste or like,

Dangerous.

And situations are different.

But the ones that I've seen do the thing not for business first,

But like,

Just because they're curious,

Seem to end up much further along.

Sometimes I see this,

Like what you said,

That is,

You know,

Having that balance and like enjoying it and but also thinking about the bills as well.

I feel like something I call for me,

It's like risk taking that,

You know,

Maybe I'm not focusing on the bills too much.

But this is something I really,

Really want to create.

I don't care how hard you know,

Will it make money or not.

But I just like,

Enjoy creating it.

Sometimes I would say that doesn't work out,

You know,

In terms of like monetization.

But still,

It is like something I really admire and something I really like,

You know,

Even if it didn't work out,

Even if people didn't understand it,

Or people didn't resonate with it.

But I've realized that if I think too much about like what people are,

You know,

Thinking,

Is it resonating with people?

Is it making money?

I start devaluing my own work,

Whereas it can be a great piece of,

You know,

Work that I've created,

People might not resonate with it,

It might not make money,

But still,

So I take it as it is sometimes that am I ready to take a risk right now,

To create something which people might not like,

Or,

You know,

Might not make money.

And a lot of times,

Like that risk is very enjoyable,

Because it,

It teaches you a lot of things.

And Charles,

I see like you're,

Although,

You know,

I feel that this is a great course,

And it can do like great,

And it has a great,

Great potential to also like resonate with a lot of people.

But I feel I think,

Correct me if I'm wrong,

That the guard note was something like that for you,

Like just creating from not having those expectations.

And I'm like,

In a way that could be viewed as sabotage,

But I don't think that's accurate,

Like kind of throwing out the formula.

Because I had a particular formula for the last two courses,

Which is like to explore particular ancient text over a very long period.

And I don't want to throw that out as I still would envision using it,

But it just felt most.

I don't know if it's like,

I like using music as like sort of an inspirational guide.

And like my favorite musicians,

And I don't know,

Maybe it's like,

Doesn't work or doesn't connect.

But for some reason,

I like following that,

Like model.

And then just thinking of my favorite artists,

And like,

If they're moved to do so,

They will move away from a sound that people are familiar with and really like.

And then people are like,

Why did they like this?

This sucks,

This direction that they went and why didn't they make this album,

But it's because they like wanted,

There was something that felt more true or real to them.

And so they pursued that.

And then you might find like,

The real fans are like,

Oh,

Yeah,

That's the best album.

You know,

But you got to really listen to it a few times,

And then you'll get it that it's the best one.

So I don't know,

Sometimes I think about that.

And I think that was present for me,

Because I had,

I immediately was about to move into sort of the familiar approach for the next one,

Because this is a formula that's working.

But then it just sort of struck me that let's throw that out for now,

Because I could always come back to it and then move into something that just feels more,

I guess,

Alive.

Right now,

I do have a belief,

Though,

That my own hypothesis that even those ones that aren't,

Quote,

Unquote,

Successful,

Or maybe don't have a financial return,

Like,

There's still some energetic investment that's worthwhile.

There that's happening,

Like my book,

For example,

I haven't made,

You know,

Really any money from that.

But I do think it was a really important thing for me to unlock other things that would not have existed if not for putting the energy into that creation.

And I think that continues to be the case,

Like,

Or I feel like even my art stuff,

Like,

There's no outcome related to that.

But I feel like it has some sort of good investment of energy that extends like to other things in a way that I can't necessarily see.

But it just feels true to me.

If I invest in that energy,

It's naturally like has a return,

But maybe in a way that I couldn't predict or anticipate.

You're nourishing your artist.

You're nourishing your creative spirit,

You know,

Your experience,

Explore,

Express.

You need the exploration and exploration and experiences to express in a deeper,

More meaningful way,

Is my opinion.

And I don't feel like it's like when you said like taking a risk is interesting.

Like the 20 year old Darius popped up and he's like,

Yeah,

We took so many risks and he did.

But it's like I'm in my 40s,

I'm 43.

It's like now because life's different,

I'm more interested in calculated risks,

Still risks.

You know,

Like Charles's thing didn't seem like a risk.

It felt like a calculated risk.

You have two,

You know,

Courses that were crushing and they're continuing to crush.

And then you like explore it into a different territory.

I think sometimes the mistake people make is they put too much risk and they're like,

I'm going to go all in on this thing,

Quit my job,

Put everything into this thing.

And it's like that's too much pressure for your artist self,

Especially if you haven't been like nourishing your artist for a while.

And it's like you're a 40 year old human,

But your artist is actually like eight years old and you're like,

Pay the mortgage.

You have two months to pay the mortgage.

And you're like,

Whoa,

That's not an environment for like proper creative development.

Well,

I feel like it might be a good time to like come to a close here,

But I don't know,

Maybe make a space for closing withhold or anything or any thoughts about what this has been like or anything you'd just like to say before we come to an end.

There's some I didn't expect this to be like this at all.

And there's something that's coming alive that's like.

It feels like Insight Timer could reject this for several reasons,

Potentially,

Because it's like,

What is this?

And there's a part of me like if we straddle that line.

The creative strategic risk taker artist self is like,

That's a fun place to play,

Because we're not doing this to be sensational.

We're not doing this because it's not true.

It's actually like real feelings and thoughts and who we are.

And it's like,

Will Insight Timer and their new tool to connect with communities be into it?

Maybe not.

But I kind of like that,

That edge.

And as you said,

That is like we're nourishing our like artists right now.

And like,

This might not be the thing like,

You know,

What we did today.

And this might not even like resonate with the audience much.

But I think something has shifted in us.

And I feel that we're feeling more and more comfortable gradually doing this.

And maybe something beautiful will come out.

Maybe not now in the future.

But I think we are we are getting on something here.

Well said.

Yeah,

I felt like if for nothing else that allowed for a different format of like discussion that we might not have otherwise had the chance to do sort of like if we were in a room together,

Sort of BSing and then get into a topic for a while that we might not have the space for necessarily in our typical group meetings.

So that felt like a nice added element for us specifically,

Like just to maybe get to know each other in a slightly different way relative to the other meetings that we have.

So I thought that was kind of cool.

Thanks for leading,

Charles.

Sure.

Yeah,

Sounds good.

So yeah,

We'll see if this is on Insight Timer or not or in whatever format it might be.

And then if it is,

The next time we'll be led by someone else here.

And then our plan is just to keep doing different sessions led by different individuals.

And then they'll post it on their particular profiles.

Yeah.

So if you made it here,

Thank you for exploring with us.

And I hope you can feel some sincerity and like not knowing what this was going to be or where we were going necessarily.

And that to me is kind of just the most interesting place to be.

So maybe if you want,

We could just take a couple kind of closing deep breaths together and notice if there's any accumulated tension in the body or anything that might just like to be released or let go of as you move into whatever happens next.

I like the idea of like metabolizing this energy and then releasing what doesn't need to continue,

But just channeling what does into the next part of your day.

And if you happen to close your eyes,

You can just wait till the moment is right for them to reopen.

And yeah,

Thank you.

Bye for now.

Thank you,

Charles.

Thanks,

Guys.