Mommy Burnout: How To Reclaim Your Life & Raise Healthier Children

Do you feel overwhelmed, anxious, tired and negative often? Sheryl Ziegler, author of “Mommy Burnout” and mother of three noticed a pattern of chronic stress and burnout when working with clients who are moms in her psychology practice. Later she went through burnout when raising her second child. These experiences led her to do extensive research on motherhood, happiness, loneliness, and even parenting from a historical point of view. This all culminated in her brilliant and supportive parenting book and a ton of knowledge regarding mommy burnout and how to handle the stressors of parenting in the modern world that she shares in this episode.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Authentic Parenting,

A podcast that gives you ideas and strategies for personal growth in the practice of parenting.

I am Anna Siebold,

A parent educator with private practice in New Jersey and I help conscious moms and dads like you to become calm and connected to themselves and their children through trauma-informed education.

With background in psychology and education working with children for nearly 18 years,

Today I support parents worldwide as I believe in helping children by helping parents.

If you are a brand new listener,

If this is your first time pressing that play button,

Thank you and welcome to the show.

I hope you will find the content of this podcast useful.

This is a podcast if you are interested in learning about yourself,

Gaining new awareness,

Growing inner strength such as mindfulness,

Self-compassion,

Courage.

It's all about becoming the best version of yourself so that you can be a better parent.

Today on the podcast we are talking about mommy burnout,

How to ditch the overwhelm,

Reclaim your life and raise healthier children in the process.

If you have been with me for a while,

If you have worked with me or have seen me speak,

You know that there is one topic I am really passionate about is stress.

And if you have noticed,

The month of September in the podcast has a theme.

Yes,

We are talking about stress.

In fact,

I just wrapped up my brand new webinar,

5 essential shifts you can make to feel less overwhelmed,

Positive and energized.

If you have attended the webinar,

I know many of you did.

Thank you and I hope it was useful.

This is a fantastic episode.

I am speaking with Dr.

Cheryl Ziegler,

Who is a mom to three kids and the author of Mommy Burnout.

Before we get to today's interview,

My daughter is turning two this August and I feel as if I'm not living up to my values.

I'm just idle and I'm not sure what to do after setting my intentions.

How do I move forward with my intentions?

I feel like I'm not present.

I am rushing.

I feel like I'm,

But I'm rushing for what?

I got pregnant at the age of 19.

During this time,

I was learning how to love myself and how to heal my traumas.

This is a journey that I started completely alone.

I was sent to therapists as a preteen and at different times,

Three different ladies would say something like,

Wow,

You're doing better than women in their 40s with similar traumas.

That always gave me the thought of what can you do for me that I can't then?

I was grateful for their muscle relaxation paperwork because that helped me find meditation.

But besides that,

It's just all been work that I've done for myself that's been helpful.

At the age of 15,

I was homeless for standing up for rights I believe every human should have or every human does have.

That was when I truly started my journey to heal and self-love.

It was hard.

I'm not downplaying it or romanticizing it.

It's hard living in the woods,

But that was the best two years of my life.

At the age of 17,

I found a program that helped me finish my high school diploma and it gave me trade certifications.

So by 18,

I had my own place.

When I got pregnant,

I automatically knew exactly what kind of parent I would be and what my values and intentions are.

I automatically knew that I'm a gardener for this beautiful budding soul,

But I placed a fear in myself of being homeless again.

So I took on two jobs,

11 p.

M.

To 7 a.

M.

And 9 a.

M.

To 2 p.

M.

It destroyed me.

When I was around,

I was mostly asleep.

I still had my values,

Just no brain activity,

No motivation to practice them.

So I was idle.

I quit my jobs when she was 18 months old and found a simple morning job that had just simple things that I asked for,

Nothing big.

And I can see how people think it's not enough,

But that's not something I care about.

I just see it makes me sad that people think that way.

I'm not trying to get to the top of anything.

To be sustainable and able to save,

Which I'm able to do,

That's good enough for me.

I'm not going to try to rise to the top of materialistic things that you were told you need just to be enslaved.

I know from living in the woods that none of that is useful to make you happy.

They just tell you that.

It's scary to me because now I see that the system still has their way to enslave you,

Even if you're not into all of that.

I'm just trying to find my way,

Even though I have an easy job that I did ask for.

It's bringing me down.

I know it's not my path.

I'm not sure what steps to take to make my dreams reality.

Also knowing that this isn't where I want to be is causing me to rush again,

To not be present,

To not be the mother I know that I am because I'm stuck in these idle behaviors,

The ones that I grew used to with the two jobs that I had.

I'm falling back into those habitual patterns.

So now I'm not sure how to move forward with my intentions.

Well,

Dear Colette,

Thank you so much first and foremost for sending this message.

I honestly don't know how to respond to your message.

I don't think you even need any answers from me.

You are brave.

You're passionate.

It sounds like you are trying very hard to have a better life.

I can only imagine the hardship that you've endured during your life living in the woods and having the difficult childhood that you mentioned.

My heart breaks hearing your story and I don't even know your whole story.

But it sounds like you're pretty resilient,

You're strong,

And you know what you want out of life.

And you mention intention and values.

And I like the ones that you indicate in your message.

If you feel overwhelmed,

If you feel like you've done everything but you're still confused and you feel rushed and you're still battling the old conditioning and the patterns,

I highly recommend seeking help outside help.

Sometimes you simply cannot do this work alone.

It sounds like you have done a lot on your own and I really admire that.

But it's an ongoing process.

And if you feel like you are stretched too thin,

I would recommend seeking help outside help.

Maybe the therapists that you worked with weren't the right ones for you.

And you are much older now.

You're not a teen.

So consider seeking professional help.

I'm not sure what kind of support system you have.

I have many questions for you.

So if you are in my private Facebook group and if you would like to open up and perhaps other people can offer help and support,

I would suggest doing that.

But if you want to keep private,

I understand too.

Don't hesitate to reach out to the community members.

To me,

If you have specific parenting related questions.

Again,

I appreciate you sending this voicemail.

It means a lot and best of luck.

And now here is my interview with Dr.

Cheryl Ziegler all about mommy burnout.

Well Cheryl,

Welcome to Authentic Parenting.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for having me.

Yes,

As I said,

You wrote the book I wanted to write.

So I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

Why don't we begin by defining burnout?

What is mommy burnout?

Yes.

So I like to talk about what mommy burnout is in two ways.

I like to talk about it,

What it looks like on an everyday basis and then where I actually even got this definition from.

But some of the everyday ways that you can sort of go,

Oh,

My chronic stress maybe has turned into burnout is you have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep.

You lack energy throughout the day,

No matter how much sleep you get.

You think about your parenting decisions kind of over and over throughout the day.

You usually don't feel great about them.

You really feel some physical sickness.

So sometimes headaches,

Stomach aches,

Neck pain,

Those kinds of things.

Women talk about a loss of interest in sex.

Just even the thought of it is just something that they want to avoid.

And then talking about avoidance,

Really dodging friends' phone calls,

So actual phone calls.

People in burnout might text you back,

But they don't usually want to talk.

And just doing things like putting your keys away in the pantry,

Putting a cereal in the refrigerator,

Putting the milk in the pantry,

Just putting things away in places they don't go,

Losing things.

Those are all the mom everyday signs that you might be in burnout.

And then I got the definition really from looking at what we use for ER docs and social workers and nurses,

Things like that,

Where we look at the definition really being it's the chronic emotional and physical exhaustion that people experience from being a caregiver.

And it results in usually not having a great sense of doing your job well or thinking that you can make an impact.

I mean,

Chronic stress has always been there.

But the numbers are rising today.

In fact,

In my private practice,

I can tell I see a large number of moms and dads,

Both moms more so than dads,

And children who are experiencing chronic stress.

And I think 75% of Americans report being moderately stressed and 25% severely stressed.

So stress is not a new thing.

However,

We have new factors that contribute to our well-being today.

And we perhaps speak about this mommy burnout in terms of this historic perspective.

I mean,

I'm sure our parents experienced burnout as well,

Right?

Even though I don't when I look back and you write about this in your book,

Perhaps you can talk about your mom and you have a cute story.

But I remember my mom had social support.

What I don't have today,

She had that.

And we can talk about how important that is in terms of battling burnout.

So can you perhaps talk about this historical aspect of burnout?

Yes,

I actually love talking about the historical aspect of it so much that in November,

I did a TEDx talk titled Why Moms Are Miserable because what I did was took the history and kind of sped it up to today in a few minutes,

Of course.

But one of the things that was interesting when I was studying this is,

You know,

The book was born from the same thing with me,

A private practice.

And I just started noticing a pattern of how women were describing their experience of being a mom.

And then what happened was,

Well,

I had my own second child and I have three children and had my second one and I experienced burnout.

I mean,

I experienced the things,

The qualitative ways that they were describing mothering,

I experienced it myself.

And then I spent the next couple of years researching,

Researching the history of motherhood,

Researching happiness,

Researching loneliness,

Physical health,

Mental health,

Of course,

All of that,

So that I could really present a book that was based on real moms that we could all be friends with or neighbors with,

But also to have some research to back up whatever it is I was saying.

So one of the things that was interesting in studying motherhood is in the late 1950s,

Early 60s,

When I think that,

You know,

If you say that to someone today,

You have this,

You have the 1950s image of June Cleaver,

Right?

As the American mom,

What they were doing,

Interestingly,

To get through the afternoons was popping Xanax and volume.

And so Mommy's Little Helper,

What I realized,

I never realized really what that Rolling Stone song meant,

What the lyrics really,

I never paid attention.

I've heard the term Mommy's Little Helper.

I just don't even think I ever stopped to think what was that.

And literally,

That's what it was.

And so when I discovered that,

I thought,

No way.

And so it just led,

It just like opened up the door to understanding what probably two generations ago,

Those women were going through.

They were going from being in urban areas to suburbia kind of exploding,

Thinking this was going to be the best thing ever.

They got a car and a house and a yard,

And it was the first time that women,

American mothers,

Really experienced loneliness.

And they realized that within their white picket fences,

They were just not socializing the same way.

They didn't have the same supports.

They were spending so much time in the car.

And so it's very interesting to see that what a mom would have said to Betty Friedan in 1962 when she was writing The Feminine Mystique is extremely similar to what a mom would say in 2018.

So it was the difference from then till now is we're starting to talk about these things more today.

Back then,

It was absolutely a secret,

Even sometimes a secret from their husbands.

They were going to their doctors and their doctors were basically telling them they were hysterical.

They needed to pop these pills and have more sex and everything would be fine.

So it was just interesting.

So that was the 60s and then the 70s were the Equal Rights Movement.

And one of the unintended consequences of the Equal Rights Movement,

This all leads to why we are where we are today,

Is women then felt not just like,

Great education and these employment opportunities are now options to me.

They felt like they were now requirements of me.

And so they didn't give up anything to do with their parenting or their mothering role.

They just added stuff.

And this was really,

I think,

The start of chronic stress and burnout.

We have literally just taken everything on and not let anything go.

And so if you look at the 60s and 70s,

Then I would say burnout in mothers is something that was definitely written about in the late 80s and 90s.

It really started then and then today is like fast forward to today.

So we still have,

I think now we have still some social isolation,

Some loneliness.

We have obviously a very strong increase in mental health issues in women in particular with anxiety and depression and so many women who are working and trying to do it all.

And then today's modern kind of stress is technology.

It is social media and the amount of hours every single day that we are online and being exposed to these perfect images and these certain messages that we're getting about what it means to be a good mom and what it means to have healthy and happy kids.

We're not even realizing how detrimental that is to our own mental health.

Yes.

And especially when you say messages,

It's always the memes that flow through social media.

Just be happy.

Just choose to be happy.

Just do this.

Just do that.

And a mom who is feeling chronically stressed,

A mom who is feeling anxious,

Depressed,

It's not a choice sometimes that they can make,

Right?

They need help first and foremost.

And that,

I think,

Adds another layer of pressure.

And they're like,

Oh my gosh,

What's wrong with me that I cannot just choose to be happy and vibrant while other people are having such great time?

Look at them.

We can talk about this.

I do want to dive deep into this aspect.

But somehow,

Don't you think we go along with this?

Oh,

Whatever stress.

Yes,

I know we're busy with stress.

We accept it.

And yes,

We're talking about it.

But many people think that it's the way it is.

It should be.

And it's OK.

Well,

Absolutely.

And I think that's part of what my mission is for this book.

I tell when I do talks about this book,

I say it certainly was a dream of mine to write a book,

And particularly on this topic.

However,

The bigger dream here,

The bigger vision for this is that we stop accepting that motherhood is this completely overwhelming self-sacrificing 20 years of our life where everything goes.

Our bodies go.

Our friendships go.

Our marriages go.

Our relationships go.

And that we just are all encompassing and all giving to our children.

It's really my mission to change that narrative,

Because I think that's kind of where we're at today.

And it's so detrimental to not just our mental health,

But even our physical health,

That I feel like we need to sort of rise up and say,

We can't accept this anymore.

This is not OK.

So we became child-centric.

Is that what you're saying?

So that adds another pressure.

It does.

And so one of the ways that I had,

Of course,

Thought about that,

And I know the term helicopter parents been around for a while,

But what happened while I was researching this is I came across this landmark study from UCLA from the year 2000 in which these two researchers were studying the gender differences between stress hormones in men and women and how we deal with stress,

What happens to our hormones.

And so one of the conclusions that they came out with,

Which I think is such a fit for mothers today,

Is they basically said,

You know what,

When it comes to stress,

Fight,

Flight,

Or freeze really applies to men.

However,

More so when it comes to stress,

This notion of tend and befriend is what actually women are wired to do.

And so what that means is that under stress,

Women are hormonally wired to tend to their children and befriend other women.

That is what we're wired to do.

And so when I read that,

I had two big aha moments,

And this was one of them,

Where I said,

Oh,

Now this totally makes sense to me.

It's like our hormonal wiring has gone awry,

And now we're overtending to our kids,

And we're under befriending our friends.

And I think that's what's happening in motherhood today.

We are so fixated on giving to our kids.

We think that a good mother,

The definition of a good mother today,

I think the common definition would be,

Yes,

You give every single possible less than you can to your kids,

And you do the best that you can for them.

And that's even a term I hear all the time.

I'm doing my best.

I'm trying to provide them with the best.

I try to give them the best of everything.

And throughout that process,

While we're giving to them,

We're losing ourselves,

But we're also losing our vitally important relationships and friendships.

Yes.

And why not saying,

Don't give it to your children?

Don't.

Right.

Because it's a priority,

Too.

But I think there are other underlying reasons for that,

Particularly.

We can perhaps talk about this from different angles.

You see your worth in doing this mothering job oftentimes,

And it raises your sense of self-worth.

You become more,

You feel good about yourself that you're doing this.

This is your contribution.

What can you say about that aspect?

Yeah.

I mean,

I think that that is also,

I think,

A nuance,

A nuance difference,

Maybe between even the generation of mothers who parented us.

I don't know that they saw necessarily their self-worth in how we did and how our grades were and if we were in honors classes or what college we went to or how great we were in sports.

I'm not really sure that they,

It didn't seem as closely linked.

I mean,

Clearly,

We see this in sports.

I mean,

Certainly,

When I was a kid,

I played a lot of sports.

I do not remember parents getting into fights with umpires and referees.

I don't remember even most of the parents being at a lot of these sporting events.

You know,

There were a couple.

It just really was a time where I think parents saw as like,

My job is to raise you and make you autonomous and independent as soon as you can be and within reason.

So it's exactly like you're saying.

Of course,

I'm not saying don't tend to our children.

We need to tend to our children and love them and all of those things.

But there are some really fundamental pieces of what makes a healthy child become a healthy adolescent and young adult that we are actually missing.

And one of them is providing them with coping skills.

So when we look at this generation,

This iGen of adolescents right now,

There are recent research reports that say they have just surpassed Generation X as being the most stressed out generation studied.

And when we look at,

Well,

What are the factors that those kids are missing?

Some of the factors,

The number one factor they seem to be missing are straight up coping skills.

So when they experience stress,

They are not used to handling stress,

Being faced with that adversity and knowing how to problem solve.

And that's one of the biggest things that's getting in the way.

So I think what parents need to understand is that allowing your child to problem solve and not coming to their rescue all the time and not going to their freshman dean and talking to them about grades,

All of those things that kind of characterize our generation of parenting,

Those things are not helping.

They're actually in the long run really not helping our kids.

They're really not even in the short term helping kids.

So there are some really,

I mean,

We've got the love down.

I know that people do these things because they love their kids and they also feel like if they don't,

Their kid just is at a disadvantage.

So sometimes parents will say,

I hear what you have to say.

In theory,

I really agree with you.

But if I don't do these things,

My kids going to be left behind in the dust.

And that is a belief they have.

If they don't do violin three times a week,

If I don't get that particular coach or get on that travel team,

My kids never going to blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Whatever it is.

And so those are those kinds of things where I think as parents,

We really need to check ourselves what are the goals and objectives of what we're doing and why aren't we letting our kids learn the lessons that they need to in childhood so they have successful adulthood.

I think that's where we're at.

Yes,

Yes.

Most of the time also people compensate for their parents.

I was speaking yesterday with a neighbor friend,

A lady from Korea,

And she was telling me her experience,

How her mom was very strict and harsh and demand of her to practice piano for hours.

And she says she hated the piano.

She just wanted to break the damn thing.

And she says her mom didn't have any other gentle ways of introducing this art education to her.

She says she wished her mom did differently,

But it was so forced upon her.

She hated her mom.

She hated the piano.

She hated everything,

All the Taekwondo and other things that her mom pushed her to do.

And she says today she's raising her son differently.

Yes,

She's in the United States,

But she's trying to see what her son likes,

Doesn't like.

She takes him to museums,

To concerts,

Gently introducing to art and music and things like that.

And I think also many parents they didn't get,

I hear from adults,

My dad was never at my games.

My parents never came to this.

And oftentimes I see these are the parents who are overly involved in their children's activities as if they have to do it to make it up for their parents lost time.

Do you see that as well?

Absolutely.

I mean,

I think that you hit on so many things,

Right?

Our own childhoods certainly affect the way we parent.

Our current society and the messages that we're getting certainly affect it.

And one of the things that I've really seen,

And I have this in the book as a suggestion is we were busy as a badge of honor.

So let's say,

Because women are having children typically later in life now,

They've often had an education and a career and then they have a child,

Let's say.

And so all of a sudden they go from being maybe like a CEO of a company or a teacher or whatever they were,

They were happily in their career and then they happily had a kid and said,

Let's say,

Okay,

Now I want to stay home or I want to work part time.

What is happening and I don't think that many people maybe consciously realize it is that when they see others,

They feel this need to say things like,

Oh my gosh,

I'm so busy,

Either they're a working mom or stay at home mom,

Because what they feel like is if in our society to be busy means you're important.

If you're not busy,

Then what are you doing?

Right?

Yes.

So that is one of the things that I'm like,

Oh my gosh,

Busy is today's badge of honor.

Because if you ask me how I'm doing and I say,

Oh,

I'm fine.

You know,

Like things are really relaxed.

They don't have much going on.

I will assume that you'll be like,

Huh,

She must not be that successful.

She must not be contributing to the world.

She must not be,

You know,

Having her kids enrolled in the best camps and lessons,

Whatever it is.

So I have to tell you I'm busy,

Whether that's at work or as a mom,

Because it will make me feel important.

Yes,

It becomes so it becomes like you belong to the social fabric.

You are accepted amongst other people.

So it becomes this notion that we are all alike.

We have to be.

So it's a pet peeve of mine,

This whole busyness lifestyle.

Yes.

And it does contribute to the burnout significantly.

And I guess when people were a CEO,

Let's say a mom was a CEO of a company or a teacher or perhaps another job,

And now she lost that.

I think she also lost meaning,

Purpose,

Colleagues,

Communication,

Socialization in a different adult setting.

Now you're raising an infant,

A toddler,

And it's not as rewarding as those adults activities.

So I think expectations play a role in this as well.

I think women and parents are not prepared for motherhood,

Especially when they make this choice to become a parent later in life after they've accomplished so many things.

I,

Yes,

I completely agree.

And people ask me that pretty often.

Well,

It sounds like maybe women aren't prepared for motherhood.

And I'm like,

You know,

I certainly think that our messages don't help.

And it starts while they're pregnant,

The level of choices and the stress around the doctor and will you have a C-section?

Will you have them naturally like all these choices and all these material goods that all of a sudden you have to decide between?

It starts pretty quickly,

The overwhelm,

But it's also a kind of a difficult time when a woman is pregnant to say,

So let me sit down and tell you that motherhood is probably not going to be what you're going to expect it to be.

And you're probably going to wonder what your purpose is,

And you're going to feel lonely.

And emotionally,

It's a tricky time.

So sometimes women just have to kind of get in it to realize whatever their own struggles are.

But certainly the question of is this it is one that I do think every woman needs to be aware of.

At some point,

You will wonder,

Is this all there is?

Because you have waited so long for this.

You can't imagine when you're pregnant that you're ever,

You know,

And I always say to people you're adding another child and another love and miracle into your life.

So you can't imagine that you'll ever look,

You know,

At your sleeping baby or sleeping toddler and go,

Wow,

So this is it?

You know,

I mean,

It doesn't mean you don't love your child.

It actually has nothing to do with your child.

It really has to do with us.

It really has to do with being a modern day woman and making sure that we have purpose.

And that was part of my research too,

Is when you look at happiness research,

Having a sense of purpose is very high on the list of correlates to being happy.

So if you decide you're going to be a stay at home mom,

You rock being a stay at home mom.

You treat it however you want to look at it,

A job,

A career,

Privilege.

But it doesn't mean you don't get to have low days.

But I think if women kind of go into it with a mindset of it's just like our job jobs,

You know,

Paid jobs.

We don't love every day of it.

There are certain things I love about my job.

There are certain things I don't.

But that doesn't mean overall I don't want to do it.

But there might be people that are difficult to work with.

There might be certain sites I wouldn't want to work in,

Whatever it might be.

And I think it's the same thing with motherhood.

I think that if they can just see the purpose,

You know,

Because women will say to me,

I don't see purpose in doing three loads of wash a day,

Loading and unloading the dishwasher and cleaning dirty diapers.

I just don't feel this purpose like I'm giving to the world.

And so what I say to them is,

But you really truly are.

It's not a cliche to say it's the most important job in the world.

Like you are shaping not just your own child,

But the future generation because your child impacts your neighbors,

Which eventually impacts the classroom,

Which impacts the school.

And just really getting them to think systemically about the importance of their job,

I think could be very helpful.

Yes.

And I think having that understanding that we need to keep our eyes with the larger picture,

Not the mundane day to day,

The laundry,

The dishes,

This,

That that's what's important.

And that's where many moms come to have that sense of awakening.

Is this it?

Right.

Because you come from this place where you were worded,

Meaningful,

You were important,

You were contributing,

You were doing all those things before you had a baby.

And now that's gone.

I often talk about the loss that comes with motherhood because you lost your youth.

You lost all of those things that we're talking about.

And now you're a mom,

You need to grieve more than loss and be an efficient mom.

And so being a mom means a slower pace.

It means not having those expectations that it's going to be,

Oh my gosh,

Wonderful,

Joyous,

You know,

When we see those glorious pictures in magazines,

Motherhood has a different reality.

I think that sense of purpose,

If we understand that it's there and somehow we need to get in touch with that and keep our eyes at the larger picture,

We will like have a sense of relief,

Right.

And not worry about the day to day management of things.

And I think also coming from,

Let's say corporate world or jobs,

Moms are used to managing projects,

Running things,

Doing things,

Being busy and productive.

And motherhood presents a completely different reality.

So they sort of bring those skills into parenthood.

And I see a clash there.

It's not a project that we need to manage.

Yes,

We're running households.

We need to be organized and efficient,

But let's enjoy the ride as well.

You know?

Right.

It's really a very,

We look at children and we look at their developmental stages.

And while I was writing this book,

It also occurred to me,

And even after,

Even just really talking to so many moms,

It's really occurred to me that mothering has many developmental stages as well.

And it can certainly start in pregnancy.

You know,

Some women love being pregnant.

Some women really don't like being pregnant.

And then you give birth.

Some women are joyous,

But one in seven women experience postpartum depression.

And boom,

A few weeks after having a baby,

They're like,

Wait a second,

I'm supposed to be joy filled right now.

I'm supposed to be not crying and not wanting to be alone and you know,

All those things.

And so as you really look through the process of becoming a mother,

You know,

Having other children is a new developmental stage,

Whatever challenges your child might bring to you.

It's just very interesting.

And I think those maybe are the educational pieces that could probably make a really significant difference in how we view mental health of mothers and how we treat it.

You know,

I think if they're prepared and they understand and there is no stigma around whether saying I'm a new mom and I'm experiencing postpartum depression or I'm a mom of three and I'm experiencing mommy burnout,

That none of those things have stigma,

That we really wrap our arms around it and say,

Yep,

You are in a developmental stage.

Let's help you through it.

This is what we know helps.

Yesterday,

A mom called me.

She has a seven year old daughter and a three month old new baby.

And she was talking to me how she's yelling at her older daughter,

How she feels disconnected.

What can I do to feel connected?

How can I stop yelling?

And you know,

I'm consulting with her.

How do you sleep?

How do you eat?

Do you have social support?

You talk to anyone.

Does your husband help?

After we spoke,

She said,

There is one more thing I want to tell you.

Is it okay that I also sometimes don't love my daughter?

She says,

I feel like I don't love my older child.

She is at that point in her motherhood that she cries.

She's lonely.

She's a new mom.

She has no social support.

She says,

My own family doesn't talk to me.

I felt heartbroken for her.

So I gave her an assignment.

I said,

I want you to come up with five names this week and every day I want you to FaceTime call random people,

Friends,

Relatives,

10 minutes a day.

You need to communicate with other people,

Other adults and see face to face.

You can't go anywhere.

You know,

And a bunch of other suggestions.

She emailed me.

She said,

Thank you so much.

I felt really understood.

I knew all those things,

She says,

But somehow you forget that you need to take care of yourself.

Yes.

And she was validated by you.

You didn't say,

Oh my gosh,

It sounds like you're experiencing clinical depression and you should go get on medication.

There's something wrong with you.

You were like,

Here's some real basic things that you forget because she's in the thick of things.

She,

You know,

And yes,

I get that too.

I mean,

And that's part of the spirit of the book is to help women realize that this book wasn't written based on just 10 women.

This is based on millions of women.

Really.

This is the experience of motherhood and the mental health condition we're in right now.

And just simply not knowing,

Just,

I'm sorry,

Simply knowing that you're not alone can actually be life-changing sometimes for people.

Just that one thing.

You are not alone.

That's number one.

Number two,

You know,

And then validation.

I have been there before.

I have done that before too,

You know,

And then eventually getting to,

Hey,

Here's what works for me.

Or in the case of a book,

Here's what works for many people.

Try it.

Some of it's going to work for you and some of it's not,

But the ones that do work for you can be life-changing for not just you as a woman,

But for your whole family.

Yes.

So Cheryl,

Then how about yourself?

You have three children.

How do you do it all?

Do you have,

Have you developed perhaps daily practices to prevent your own burnout?

What do you do?

I'm curious.

What works for you?

Can you share with us?

Absolutely.

Well,

Yes,

I do have three children.

They're 10,

8,

And 5.

So still they're young and they still need a lot.

And so there's a lot of things that I do and truly they almost all have to do with being able to ask for help and then being able to receive that help.

And without that ability and then a social support system,

I absolutely would not be able to do anything.

I wouldn't have been able to write this book.

I wouldn't be able to be talking about it so much.

I mean,

It's just critical for me.

So really practical things that I do are,

I am married and I have a husband who we're both entrepreneurs.

So we have a lot of flexibility in our schedule and I write that in the book because I do want people to know I do do a lot and I get that a lot.

How do you do this all?

But I truly do it because I have an equal partner.

If I didn't,

I wouldn't be able to do it.

So there's a lot of flexibility in our schedule.

So we do.

I only do things that I love and that is really key because if there's anything that I can tell once in a while,

I'll agree to do something that I don't love or I'll agree to write something.

That's where I really see it.

Writing for me should come out fast and fluid and if it doesn't,

Either it wasn't my idea or I'm not that passionate about it.

So I try to do things that only provide me that kind of joy.

But I also have no shame in asking like right now to be on this podcast.

A neighbor has two of my kids and the other ones in camp.

I just have no shame in asking for help and if I can get it great and if I can't,

Well then I'd have to decline or get creative.

But I do ask for help a lot.

I am that mom that's in an airport with three kids traveling and like strangers come up to me and say,

Can I help you with something?

And I will always say yes.

Even if at the moment I actually don't really feel like I need anything,

I actually really will say yes.

Just because I believe in energy.

So I believe that if I just keep putting out that energy,

Like yes,

I'm open to help.

Please offer that it'll just keep coming back to me.

So I do that even if it's as simple as sure,

It'd be great if you could hold this car seat for a minute so I can tie their shoelaces while we,

You know what I mean,

Through security,

That kind of thing.

Like just something small.

And then I would just say that I really do take care of myself.

I do work out and I make that a priority.

And the easiest place in the world I get the hour to work out in is to just say,

I'm not going to spend time online,

Like whether it's online shopping or it's just mindlessly scrolling through social media or even sacrificing a show.

Of course I like shows like anybody else.

But if I have an hour,

If I only have one hour,

Then I'll say,

Well,

You know what?

Tonight,

I won't watch that show.

I'll go work out now.

I just figure that out.

And if I don't do those things,

If I don't either ask for help or if I don't work out,

I feel it and I will be more irritable and I will be crabbier with my kids.

So I feel like I need to do it.

And the last thing I'll say that I do that I think is I write about in multiple places in the book because it's been so helpful to me and to other women that do it is I do what I call walk-in talks as much as possible.

So what that means is if I get a text from a friend or something and they're like,

Hey,

I miss you.

I know you're so busy.

Of course they'll say that.

I know you're so busy,

But I'd love to see you.

First of all,

I never say no to a friend.

So I always make time.

That would fall under my list of things that I love.

I love spending time with other women.

So I'll always say yes.

I'll always say I'm never too busy for you.

But sometimes I'm really strategic.

I'll say,

Why don't we go do a yoga class and go grab lunch after?

Why don't you,

If it's someone in my neighborhood,

Why don't we go walk tonight for an hour?

So I try to combine.

Sometimes I try to multitask.

I have one friend who doesn't have kids.

So our schedules are really,

Really different.

She's my college roommate and she lives here.

So her and I almost always get manicures and pedicures together.

So I'm doing things that I sort of have to do alongside with being social.

And I find it to be very fulfilling.

Yes,

I love that.

I can totally picture that.

Let's talk about mommy burnout and social media.

This is the big culprit,

Right?

What have you discovered through research?

And I know you have nine types of posters,

Posting styles.

I am laughing because I identified myself.

I was towards the end,

Surprisingly.

I'm not so active on social media,

Even though I am a public figure.

I have this podcast,

But I don't post a lot.

So the first one is attention seeker.

And we can perhaps choose a couple of those and talk about them.

The next one is bragger.

Next one is compulsive non-essentialist.

This one just gets to me.

These folks post every simple fact of their day,

Like what they ate for lunch,

What they drank at the coffee shop,

And the vitamins they took that morning.

Ah,

This gets me so much.

I'm like,

Who cares?

I know.

I just want to scream.

Who cares?

I don't care about your life.

The next one is promoter.

They are constantly promoting what they sell,

Their way of life,

And the bands they love.

I promote my podcast,

But I don't think I am the promoter.

Time and video poster,

These people love to share humorous or wacky content.

Yes,

We definitely have those in our feeds.

Family poster,

These folks are focused on posting highlights of their family vacations or latest fun activities.

Yes,

And make other people feel like less than.

Right.

Next one,

Political insider.

These people want everyone to know their political and social worldviews,

And they are happy to let people with opposing views know that they are wrong in their comments section.

Oh my gosh.

I know.

I don't know.

I always say,

What are you achieving with that?

You're not going to get too far with that.

Yeah,

And I think the last two years has brought probably more of that than ever.

Yes.

It's divided families.

It's broken friendships.

It's pretty big.

I know.

Motivational poster.

They aim to inspire with their daily feeds,

Feed with quotes,

Videos,

And personal stories of triumph.

I know I have a few of those in my feed.

This is not so bad compared to others.

Right.

Yes.

Advocate.

These people champion for a cause.

This is my best friend.

Feed medical,

Social,

Educational,

Or a GoFundMe campaign.

I have a friend who says,

You didn't like my campaign.

You didn't do this.

You didn't do that.

I'm like,

Oh gosh.

Yes.

I advocate for things too.

The last one is me.

Casual poster.

These folks post randomly and infrequently,

Usually about something positive.

I feel like if I don't have anything positive to say to support someone or I'm not going to participate in discussions,

Debates with people I don't even know.

I'm not in a room with them.

If I'm not going to help someone with a link or a resource,

I'm not just going to post.

I didn't read the bragger.

Let's read the bragger.

These posters want everyone to see how great they are.

They boast about their kids' awards and achievements as well as their own successes such as reaching weight loss goals or getting a promotion.

They only post accomplishments.

And let's read the attention seekers too since I read all of them.

These people seek validation and attention,

Posting pray for me messages or I just did the most amazing thing,

Updates.

I know I get that too.

I don't know.

I feel sometimes sorry for people who are like,

Just pray for me.

My mom is in the hospital or pray for me such and such.

I'm like,

Okay,

I hope my prayers work.

Right.

Yes.

So what type are you then,

Cheryl?

Well,

I am probably a combo because I'm casual.

So I do,

Like you were saying,

I have my personal Facebook page and then I have a public one.

So in the public one,

That's all about just like,

I guess,

Information.

They're all like articles,

Interviews,

Whatever.

And it's usually pretty current events kind of stuff.

So that's different.

So I guess I'm a promoter,

Of course,

Publicly.

But privately,

Which is more so what I'm talking about,

There's a couple of things.

So I'm casual.

I definitely try to do a combination of.

.

.

I will do probably one or two charity,

Go fund me.

Not me,

But charitable.

Once or twice a year,

I'll promote a charity that I sit on the board of.

And I'd highlight birthdays,

Last day of school.

Yes,

I posted last day of school pictures.

I definitely did that,

Which is simple.

Last day of school,

Hooray for summer.

So and I do things sometimes.

Okay,

What's the point?

Like,

Well,

I live in Denver,

But I'm originally from New York.

So I'd say 60 to 70% of my Facebook friend group is not local.

So I kind of do it just for,

Hey,

Here's what my kids are looking like.

And I will do.

.

.

If we have a great ski trip or a vacation,

I'll post one picture from it.

I do try to put in the fails or a joke at least about like,

I know everyone looks all happy here,

But five minutes ago,

We were melting down or lollipops were greatest bribery.

So I try to keep it real in that way for sure.

But I think that one of the things that I see that really it's happened to me before and I'm like,

This is a terrible feeling and I never.

.

.

I don't want to be in this world is the title of this chapter is,

How Many Likes Did I Get Today?

And that is really the driver here.

So even though I know other people experience this,

Especially young people experience this multiple times a day because they're posting all day long.

For me,

Yeah,

There's been times where I've posted something and I will have that feeling of like,

Oh,

I wonder how many people like this and then comments.

Those are really the next level.

Who took the time to comment?

And when I find.

.

.

I've experienced that a couple of times when I found that I'm clicking and going to see and then seeing who didn't like something,

I'm like,

This is a world that I just can't be a part of.

I don't think I could handle it mentally.

I think I would really,

Truly probably go into a depression if I lived and died by who liked and who commented on my little posts.

But other people really do experience this again,

Sometimes multiple times a day or at least multiple times a week.

Yes.

So I know I've witnessed people who post a picture,

Let's say right now,

And they check the next minute or the next second,

Likes or comments or things like that.

I mean,

I certainly have,

Why isn't this podcast episode getting so many comments or likes?

Because I don't purposefully post personal stuff.

I don't want to open up myself like that to public comments.

And I know it's going to affect me because these are just people's judgments.

So I purposefully don't post anything private because it's private.

I want to keep it to myself.

The public stuff,

If people have negative or something negative to say about the podcast or some other stuff,

It's fine.

It affects me.

I'm not going to lie and say a negative comment,

But whatever.

I don't know where that person was or what is that person going through?

I don't know that person.

But the private,

I think,

Is more vulnerable.

And I don't want to open myself up like that to people easily.

I wouldn't go.

I treat the online world the way I treat the offline,

Regular,

Real world.

I wouldn't go to the post office and in the midst of everybody shares something about my life or a picture or whatever with random people.

So why would I do that online?

So my thinking is that maybe I'm weird,

But that's how I think.

Yeah.

Well,

I'm sure I don't think that social media as a concept is going anywhere.

But I certainly think that it's going to keep evolving.

And the more,

Just even this week with having Apple announce the new app that shows you not just how long you're on apps,

But also just how many times you physically pick up the phone.

And having the CEO of Apple say,

I learned a lot about myself and I was picking it up way too many times throughout the day.

And talking about addiction,

I think in the new DSM,

However long it's going to take for a new one to come out,

Could be a decade from now.

But I certainly think we will have internet addiction will be officially on there.

And I think even hopefully burnout.

I hope that they will reconsider it.

It was considered for this one and they decided it was an extension of depression.

And I really actually disagree with that.

But I think these very modern kinds of issues from social media to just technology use to addiction,

To self-worth,

To increase feelings of depression and even suicide,

All of these things that this preliminary research is coming out with,

I also don't think it's a lot of it's focused on adolescents.

And I actually don't think that they're not just adolescent issues.

I think they're just any user issue.

They're just user issues.

But we've got more relative data right now around all of these things for teenage use.

And a lot of times parents will ask me that.

It's probably one of the very top things we talk about is just how to help kids not be on social media so much and how do you handle that.

And I do usually ask parents,

Well,

How much are you on it?

And how do you use it as a coping mechanism?

Because the kids are definitely using it as a coping tool.

So we get into it.

I mean,

It's actually really pretty rich with data on your level of stress and how you manage it and where do you get energy from and what sucks energy out of you.

It's really truly like just this chapter alone could be a whole hour talk or even a whole hour session with a woman.

Yes,

Yes,

I agree.

And we need to talk about this because many women don't even realize that time and attention are very priced assets.

And we have time and attention in limited finite resource.

So when they devote their time and attention to something meaningless like scrolling through Facebook and just seeing pictures on Instagram,

It doesn't make them feel good at the end of the day or at the end of the week.

It has this,

It can create anxiety and depression and it's linked to all those things.

And many of us don't realize that,

Wow,

This is really affecting me.

And I'm not suggesting let's go complete detox or get rid of it,

Cold turkey,

Things like that.

I am all pro what I call digital hygiene.

Have your own guidelines around using it wisely that you don't get that anxiety,

That burnout.

It's not affecting your sense of worth or you are not feeling negative.

And it's different for everybody.

So what tips can you share with us,

Like general tips that you share with your clientele and other parents that work just a few like tangible things?

Yeah.

So I think that at the end of each chapter of Mommy Burnout,

We have what we call a prescription plan.

We really gave thought to this.

This part was kind of fun.

And I thought there again,

Simple,

Tangible things people could do.

So the first thing I talk about,

So under taming your social media usage,

Is setting boundary around usage for yourself and your kids.

And oh,

Yes,

That sounds so easy.

Set up screen free zones and times when they're on and off.

I think it sounds simple,

Easy.

And I see on a daily basis that it's so difficult for parents to enforce.

So I would say,

Particularly if your kids are young right now,

Absolutely start that.

Start it through your own modeling and then start it and be very,

Very clear on that.

And I think that needs to start with,

Can't sleep with a phone in your room.

You shouldn't look at your phone the very first thing you do in the morning,

Although most people do.

No phones during dinnertime.

So just having some sacred times to start your day right to connect.

A meal is about connection.

It's not just about satiating your hunger or appetite.

So making sure that times for connection are very clear.

So I think that helps.

And then knowing what you should be putting out there and not.

And that is,

Again,

Very parallel adolescent adult issue.

Being clear for kids especially,

Do you want to put out there like,

Oh,

I feel so crappy about myself.

I want to die,

Which is kids do that every day.

Is that the best use of reaching out for help?

All the way to a parent maybe asking a question about organic or not organic food or whatever.

And just knowing if you put it out there,

This isn't your close circle of good friends because in our close circle of good friends,

We have usually one handful.

This is hundreds,

For some people,

1,

000 people that you're putting a question out to.

And just know that you have no idea what that response is going to be.

And sometimes you're setting yourself up for confusing information,

Strong opinions,

And again,

Not feeling great about yourself.

I think everyone remembering posts are permanent is something that hopefully helps tame what we're putting out there.

And I'd say the last thing I would say in such a gift,

When you are out,

When you actually make the time and the effort to be out socially with a best friend or just a friend,

Don't just put your phone maybe on vibrate and then put it on the table face up so you can see what's popping up.

Truly put it on silence,

Leave it in your bag,

And don't take it out.

And if you really need to check an email or something midway through,

Excuse yourself and go to the bathroom,

Check it there and let it be.

Because just the mere fact of having that phone on the table when you're trying to be in relationship with somebody says there could be something more important going on that will distract my attention.

Because you actually don't have my full attention because every time my screen lights up,

My eyes are looking there and I'm taking in information and it's just shifted my mood,

Whether it's just something even political or it's a text from your spouse.

So I think that's really,

Really important.

We think of social media,

We are less connected in a more socially connected world than ever.

We're less emotionally connected than ever.

So really,

Really view your time with other people as sacred and put the devices out of sight.

Yes,

Good advice.

Can you say just a few words about re-engaging again in real life with friends and the value of social engagements and friendships to combat this mummy burnout?

Yes.

I mean,

I could say a lot about it,

But one of the things that we know is that even just in the presence,

Two women in the presence of one another who are having an enjoyable conversation have more oxytocin,

Which is our love hormone,

Running through our systems than if we were in the presence of just someone else.

So when you are with somebody who you really care about and you're engaging with,

You actually have love hormones flowing through you.

And when we look at longevity of happiness,

Like one of the other recent stats that should just have people just stopping in their tracks is the age range of 19 to 21.

I think this was a stigma study that came out just a few weeks ago.

They studied their loneliness and level of connection and compared it to the geriatric population.

And we now know that within their sample,

The 19 to 21 year olds reported being more lonely than geriatric populations.

So the elderly in our communities.

My gosh.

Yes.

I mean,

People need to understand that the more socially connected on Instagram,

Facebook,

Snapchat,

Whatever it's going to be,

It actually is causing the opposite feeling.

You realize that,

Oh,

I haven't been out to dinner in a long time.

Oh,

I haven't been on a vacation in a while.

Oh,

They,

Like talking for moms,

Oh,

Look at those group of moms.

They went out for happy hour.

No one invited me.

Those issues are very real for us as women.

We are so focused on,

You know,

Like our kids,

Our kids,

Our kids,

Are they being excluded or not?

But the truth is that we're experiencing those things as well.

Oh,

Why wasn't I invited to that?

Oh,

Those two couples got together.

Why didn't they invite my spouse and I?

You know,

And so I think what's really important is that you have to understand that social media,

They're just glimpses,

But real friendships and real connection,

You can't fake.

Right.

So if I pick up that phone,

Even when I don't want to,

Maybe I'm not having a great day,

The friend on the other line is probably going to pick up my voice.

Something's off.

Something's wrong with her.

Right.

I can't hide behind a screen.

I can't hide behind my characters and a picture.

It's like you actually,

When people know you,

They're going to either look at your face or hear your voice and say,

What's going on?

Something's up with you.

And that anytime you notice that you're avoiding that,

You're avoiding relationship and connection and you really need to lean into that experience.

Yes.

So true.

So if you were to give out a prescription plan to all my listeners and to summarize some of the valuable points after book,

What's important?

How can we battle this and feel good about ourselves?

Yes.

So the first way that I would summarize it is that mommy burnouts or mommy chronic stress is something that millions of mothers who all love their children experience.

It's not a reflection of loving your children.

And the subtitle of the book is How to Reclaim Your Life and Raise Healthier Children in the Process.

And I think what I would summarize is to say that we are losing ourselves and our own lives and our own sense of purpose,

All in the name of being a good parent.

And it doesn't need to be that way.

So reclaiming our lives,

Reclaiming our purpose,

Our why,

What drives us,

What our own interests are is essential and related to raising healthier children.

Right?

You can't give to someone that which you do not have.

If you don't have happiness in your life,

If you don't have real life friendships and connection in your life,

If you don't have positive self-worth,

You can't give that to your kids.

You can say the words all you want all day long.

But human beings in real,

Not virtual relationships really learn through nonverbals.

We learn through body language.

We learn through observation.

Our kids are just little sponges observing what's happening in their society around them.

So we can't fake it.

This isn't something you can say one thing but do another.

So I liked the subtitle because,

First of all,

I love that the book really is focused on women's health.

It really is a women's health book.

And then it's sort of like,

Oh,

And guess what?

The side effect of doing these things is you actually raise healthier children and have less yelling and more harmony within your relationships,

Including that with your children in your home.

But the primary focus is the woman.

And that's what I loved about it.

It's not necessarily a parenting book like,

This happens with your child,

And so you should do this.

There are those books out there,

And they're wonderful.

This is actually about,

Hey,

Take the time just to pick this thing up and read about yourself and read about your life and the world that you're raising your children in.

Yes,

That's why you're on this podcast.

That's the focus of this podcast.

It's not how to train your toddler in five days.

Well,

That's important,

Too.

But when we're not in a good place,

When we don't have well-being,

Mental health,

When we don't feel our true authentic self,

When we don't have a meaning purpose,

We cannot be a good,

Productive,

Healthy,

Vibrant mom,

Woman,

Individual in the world.

So it's really important.

I love your message.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me on.

And that's it for this episode of the Authentic Parenting Podcast.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did.

Let's continue the conversation in our private Facebook community.

And I want to hear all about your takeaways.

And I really want to know,

What are you going to change in your life?

Are you inspired to take some action?

I also want to mention again my course,

How to Stop Yelling,

Which you can find at AuthenticParenting.

Com forward slash course.

And if you have been battling with this habit of yelling,

If you want to have better relationships with your children,

If you want to create a calmer home,

It's possible.

The self-study course is ready for you to unlock the hands-on program.

You will learn why we yell,

How yelling affects our children.

You will learn to understand your stress with my four-step stress management tool.

The course comes with a guided meditation,

A workbook,

A self-assessment tool,

And so much more.

Please be sure to check it out at AuthenticParenting.

Com forward slash course.

And if you have questions,

You know where to find me.

As always,

Connect to the present moment to yourself and your children.

Until next week,

I am Anna Siebold.

Thank you so much for listening.

Reviews

Like many I wonder if I’m doing it right daily. This makes me feel less alone and less critical of myself.

It really got me thinking about stuff. I am going to try and use some of things I heard today

Having my own mummy burnout today. I found this podcast very grounding and inspiring. Namaste 🙏

Empowering and Motivating! Insightful and Inspiring! Bookmarked. Thank you ✨✨✨