"The True You" Podcast Conversation With Paula Burns

My author's name is Iris Angellys, and welcome to this conversation with Paula Burns.

Paula likes to dive deep into the big questions in life.
What are you passionate about?
What makes you happy?
Do you love yourself unconditionally?

The photo is of Paula and published with permission.

Transcript

Hello, Everyone, And welcome to another True You podcast with me, Paula Burns, Creative Business Mentor. So this is a place where we have open discussions to understand who we are in order that we can live our lives to the fullest. And every week I bring on an amazing guest who shares their story about living their true life. As the listener of this podcast, It's important for me to know that you are being inspired by other people who are living their lives under their tombs. And again, I've said this before, It's not about living your life like everybody else or seeing someone and thinking, I need to be like them. It's about finding your own true path. And that's why everyone that I bring on to my podcast has different types of lifestyles, Different stories, And they're able to share the ups, The downs, The challenges so that it gives you hope to be able to move forward in in your true life. So I'm going to get straight on to it and introduce my guest. And I'm going to make sure I try and get this name right, Because everyone knows what I'm like about names. So welcome, Iris Angelis. Thank you so much. You are welcome, Iris. It's really good to have you on the podcast, And I'm really looking forward to hearing your story. Let's just kick this off by you telling everyone what is it that you do? Well, That's a really big question already, Actually. So I am multifaceted, And the way that I connected with you was through my life as an author, So I've written two books, And also I'm a workshop facilitator and blogger and whatnot. And I'm also a chiropractor and applied kinesiologist. Oh, My goodness. Do you know what? When you say multifaceted, We all are. I think so many of us are. I think it's more of a rarity when someone says, Oh, I do this one thing because I don't think life is about one thing anymore. But what I have found, Yeah, But what I have found is that they all link in some way. So, Of course, They're linked to us as individuals, All of these different things, And they might seem different, But there's some invisible link that links all of these things that we do. So and this is what makes a really good conversation as well. So tell us a little bit about each of the things that you're doing and what sort of is there one of them that sort of takes precedence? Well, Complicated question, Actually, How I answer that one, The the thing they have in common is actually my love for Mother Earth. Yeah, Like I just think she's this beautiful, Precious planet. And from a very young age, I've always felt that we need to look after her a lot better and treat her with more respect and, You know, Be kinder to her and all the creatures that are on her and that we don't own this place. We're just stewards. Right. And and from there springs my desire to help people step into their best versions of themselves, Because if people are happy, Healthy and thriving, They tend to make better decisions than if they're stressed and run down and depleted and exhausted. Yeah. So everything that I do is all about giving people the tools that they need in order to step into the next most magnificent version of themselves. And it's a path that I walk very much actively myself as well. So, Yeah, I think that's probably the best answer to your question, Ultimately. And it's true what you said about the reactiveness, Because when we are going through challenges, I'm not feeling that we're truly centred. We do live our lives on reactive mode. So it's like, Oh, Just do this, Do that, Do that, Whatever. We're not really thinking about it. We're just in survival. We're just in a survival mode. And so we're not getting that chance to sort of like contemplate, Feel like, Is this the right path for me? Does it feel right? Is it how is it affecting my world and the people around me? And most importantly, How is it affecting me? So so, Yeah. So the work that you do is is very important around that. So what is it that you love about it? I love seeing people thrive, Like sometimes as a chiropractor, I have somebody come in and they look a particular way. And, You know, One or two visits later, It's like they come in as a completely different person to the point where I almost don't recognise them because the energy has just shifted so much. And as a chiropractor, That's a real buzz. And like the books or the second book that I've written is called Your Body is the Portal to Your Soul. And that's taking all the things that I've learned and distilled from being a chiropractor for nearly 30 years and kind of found the common themes that happen in each person that I interact with and understand what it is that bodies actually crave from us. So like our bodies, Most of us treat as a tool, You know, Like I just want my body to do the things I want it to do. And I don't really want to have any other interaction with it other than that. But our bodies are these exquisite, Totally attuned, Incredible, Miraculous beings in their own right. And we get to live in them, Right, As the spiritual being that's having a human being experience. And our bodies know how to navigate 3D physical reality. Like our bodies know what food they need, When they need rest, When they need play, When they need movement, What kind of movement they need, You know, Water, What kind of water they need. Like they really know everything that's required to thrive in this three-dimensional world. And they try to tell us. But most of us are in that triggered state you were talking about. Like I've just got to get this done. And we actually disconnect from our bodies. We don't feel our bodies at all, Let alone then actually go, Oh, OK, I've been sitting down for three hours now. My body is really asking me to get up and move and stretch and have a glass of water and just refresh. You know, So and it's those little things. And like if the longer you ignore them, The louder the body is going to get, The more uncomfortable it's going to be, The more you're likely to reach out for, You know, The coffee or the alcohol or the, You know, Tablets actually, As in tablets, Painkillers or whatever. And the tablet, The screens that distract us from being present in our bodies and for our lives. Yeah. So that's that's that's how my two lives weave in as well. You know, Like I draw from my work as a practitioner in order to, You know, Share the wisdom that bodies have taught me along the way. Yes, That's so powerful. Everything that you've said is so powerful. And it is it's so common how much we ignore our bodies. It's such a common thing. And the most time that we take notice of our bodies is when there's something seriously wrong. Yeah, That's right, There's a crisis. Yeah, I know. I can't ignore it anymore. I've been trying to ignore you and now you will pay attention, Right? Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. And so, You know, Isn't it more important that we're listening to the little subtle signs so that we can do something quickly about it than to wait until it gets really, Really bad? It just makes sense, You know, It makes sense when you think about it. But let's think about it like your body is the only being the only being you're absolutely guaranteed to be with to your dying breath, The only being everybody else may or may not breathe in or out along the way. And our bodies love us and they want loving attention from us. So most people treat their pets with exercise and a nice place to sleep and affection and good food and water and sunshine and belly rubs. Can we can we treat our bodies the way we treat our pets? Like, Can you imagine how wonderful and nurtured our bodies would feel and how much more fun this experience in 3D physical reality would be if we actually treated our bodies as our friends or as our cherished, Cherished pets. Yeah. And that's why it's important as well to understand, You know, Your true self and what your body needs as well, Because if you don't know, You don't know what your body needs and you don't care enough about yourself, Your true self and what you need. You know, Knowing all these things, It's still not going to do anything. You know, You're still not going to look after yourself if you, You know, If you don't have that really strong feeling for yourself and loving yourself as well and wanting to do that stuff. So, Yeah. Yeah, This that's it's really powerful when you think about it. Iris, I want to take you back to your childhood because, Yeah, I always ask this question because there's always some spark or some link that that can lead us to where we are now. You know, You didn't wake up one day and do all the things that you do right now. And so when we look at our journey, Even from a child, There's there's always some link of the type of person we were. And like some of us take that through and, You know, To our adulthood, There may be ups and downs through all of that. So, You know, It may be like, Oh, You straight away and you've done different things and then you come back to that person who you were, You know, The core of who you were. So tell us a little bit about, You know, Your childhood growing up and your journey to get into doing what you do now. So I'm Danish originally, And I lived in Denmark till I was 10. And at that point, My parents were splitting up and I moved to Spain with my mother. Now, Being in Denmark, To me, I was just a normal, Average little kid, You know, Like I look like everybody else, We have the same traditions and, You know, Pretty much everything was smooth sailing. But then when we moved to Spain and it was the south of Spain, So I looked very different, You know, I'm tall, Blonde and blue eyed and everybody else was, You know, Like dark hair and dark eyes and, You know, Generally shorter than me and a very, Very different culture. So at the time, Spain was very patriarchal, Chauvinistic, Misogynistic up to a point. Certainly, Certainly for people who were clearly not locals, You know, That was my experience of it. OK, I just say that I might not be doing it justice, But that was my experience of it. And, You know, Like I would get way too much attention just walking down the street, So I never felt safe. And, You know, I also felt like. I just wasn't fitting in, So I stopped trying to be interacting with people based on who I was and started interacting with people based on what I could do for them. And I think as a woman, You would probably recognize this. It's like when we're little, We're taught we're not only responsible for how we speak, How we move, How we dress, How we interact with other people. We're also responsible for how other people take this and react to us, Right? Yeah. Like victim shaming is a real thing. So, You know, I became this overly responsible person who had really poor self-worth and, You know, Felt totally uncomfortable in my skin. But in amongst all of that, There was always this sense of this is not what life is supposed to feel like. Just get through this bit and you will figure out things later. So there was always this this sense of. You know, You're missing something essential here and you will find it. So then I completed my schooling in Spain, Went back to Denmark to study and then went to UK to study and things kind of settled down a little bit, But I was still feeling really uncomfortable in my own skin and feeling like I had no worth other than what I could provide for others. So, You know, A great career choice going to health care, Right? Yeah. And then I hit rock bottom when I met a man from Australia and got married to him pretty quickly without really knowing him. And it turns out he was a diagnosed alcoholic psychopath. And for him, I dropped everything and came to Australia, Assuming that he asked me to marry him because he liked me, Which turned out to be not the case. So it was like a year of totally compressed personal growth. And we got to the point to where he gave me back his wedding rings for the third time. So following the relationship for the third time. And I had this sense of myself of, OK, You've got two options. You either break and this is what it's going to keep going like or you go, No, Right. You stand up for yourself and you go, No. So I chose number two and we broke up much to his surprise, I suspect. And then, I mean, I didn't know this at the time, But then I started this process of examining everything I thought I had been taught along the way and going, OK, So does this actually work for me or not? Keeping the bits that work and finding what works when the things that don't work are showing up in my life. And that has been a very slow to start with, You know, Gradual process of now growing into myself and knowing my worth and knowing that I've got worth as a human being and knowing that I have worth as a woman and that anything that I do is really bonus. Right. It's an expression of my soul song. It's not something I have to do in order to get approval from the outside. So thankfully, To younger listeners out there, It does get easier. You do get better at recognizing when things are difficult, That you will get through this because you always have so far. And, You know, That on the other side of this, You will, You know, Any time I'm in difficult situation, I know that right now, You know, The diamond's being polished and some layers are coming off, But it will be sparklier at the other end. So I'm really grateful to my younger self for hanging in there and approaching life in the way she did. Because it was really tough at some times. And, You know, Sometimes I think about that and I look at because I do some work with young people as well. And and, You know, I I look at them and I and I know that what they go through, The uncertainties, The angst, The, You know, Trying to live up to whatever it is that they're being told to live up to and all of these things. And, You know, It is such a difficult time. It is such a difficult time when you're younger because you're trying to navigate. You're trying to to try and follow something that maybe it's things that you've learned, You know, You've been taught it, You've grown up, You're trying to follow it like a strict path. And it's hard to sort of step out and be your own person. And and that takes you even into adulthood. And as you said, You know, Your experiences then that you go and the choices that you make because you don't know what it's like to be your own person. And it is so, You know, It is so hard to to do that, Especially, You know, When you're you're younger. But then it can still become a pattern as when you're an adult, If you don't break the cycle. And you did. You know, You made that decision. You thought, I'm going to break that cycle because that's the only way. And I love the way that you said that you you appreciate your younger self because we have to go through that sometimes because it's part of the journey. And that is one of my favorite phrases, The journey of the journey of life. But it is it is life is a journey. It is a process. It's not an outcome. Right. Yeah, Exactly. You know, And you know, A journey, If you think about a journey, You take twists and you take turns and you you know, You might come to a dead end and then you've got to turn around and go back the other way and whatever. But the great thing about a journey is like if you keep going, You'll get there. And if you learn all the different lessons that you you, You know, That that you encounter as you go along, You're like, Oh, I can see what I did wrong here. Let me turn in this direction. And life is exactly the same. You know, It's exactly the same. But can I just pick you up? Yeah. Yeah. Pick up on something you said, Which was learning lessons. So like I actually think that if we look at life in terms of learning lessons and of course, We're learning lessons and that's what we do as humans. Right. Yeah. But it makes us or it makes me feel like there's a sense of incompletion or something like that. If you flip it on its head and go, OK, I as a being already am perfect. I already know everything I need to know. I already can do everything I need to do. So every time there's a lesson, It's not a lesson, It's a remembering of who I am. So it's like you have this you have this incredible diamond inside of you. And then every time or like an onion. Right. And like every time there's a lesson or every time there's a realization that you have about yourself, You actually peeling off a layer of misremembering or lack of remembering. That to me gave me just so much peace. It's like, OK, I I don't need to strive anymore because I'm already whole. Well, What I need to do is just peel through these layers and remember more and more of who I am, You know, Get a sense of who I am. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, Definitely. Did you do any other jobs then before you did the types of things that you do now? You know, Did you do something that's completely out of, You know, Character of who you are now? I did some jobs to get me through chiropractic school. So, You know, A cleaner and assistant in nursing and paper girl and yeah, Cleaning in a hospital, That sort of thing. But it wasn't an actual career for any length of time. Yeah. I started studying chiropractic at 19. So great. Oh, OK. So so that was a good path. You took that quite early in life. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I knew I wanted to help people without drugs and surgery, So chiropractic was a really good choice in that context. Yeah. OK. Was there a time that you felt like you lost your way? I think that time between leaving home and having that experience with the man I was married to, I felt very lost. Again, I had that little voice that knew that life was meant to feel like this, But I didn't know how to get there. I didn't know how to how to unpick things. So I felt really lost at that point. But, You know, I did make a smart decision, Which was to study chiropractic and a very unsmart decision, Which was marry that man and move to Australia where you don't know anybody. But then even that decision, There was a part of me that knew was a bad idea. Yeah. But there was also a part of me that knew that that was just how life, You know, The choice I had to make. I had to do this. So that's the thing about guidance. You know, My body was going, No, This is a bad idea. But my soul was going, Yes, Yes, Do it. And you and I will communicate soon. Just hang on in there, Girl. You know, So so then and after that, There's been this approximation. I think one of the reasons why my youth is is so adored in our societies is actually because once we get older, There's a whole lot of BS that we just kind of go, Yeah, Whatever, You know, I'm not playing in that. And getting older is actually so rewarding and so rich and so yummy, You know, Liberating, Isn't it? It's so liberating. It's like you don't have to, Yeah. It's like, You know, You you it is such an amazing feeling. You can't you can't explain it to a young person that it's great to be older because they think it's great to be actually young. But it's all to do with our minds as well, Isn't it? You know, It's when you're older, Our minds sort of like and it should, You know, When you think about people whose minds haven't changed, So they get into an adult adulthood and they still go into the things that they were doing when they were youth. And so, Yeah, It's finding that that path that takes you to this liberating space that we talk about. Yeah. And I think it's it's all about you're in a, You know, Damned if you do, Damned if you don't kind of situation where it doesn't matter what choice you make, It's going to have consequences that you prefer not to experience. Yeah. And then moving into a space where there's an acceptance of, OK, So sometimes life just really sucks and sometimes there is no good, No good choice to make. And you're just going to have to do the best that you can with the tools that you currently have and then learn from that and grow with it. Learn, Remember from that and grow with it. We're used to seeing how those words live. Yeah. And understand that the world isn't black and white, Like there's colors and it's multidimensional and something that today looks like a really bad thing tomorrow could be something that you're deeply grateful for. You know, I'm deeply grateful to the man that I was married to because I think if I hadn't met him, Well, I would probably have met somebody else who was similar because I clearly needed to go through that destruction of, You know, That ego death in order to come out the other side. But if I, You know, If I hadn't met him, It might have taken me 10 years instead of just two to go through that process. Yeah. Yeah. And, You know, As a result, I'm now living in Australia and I have a life that I really love. So, Yeah, Exactly. You know, It was it was all part of what I needed to go through and there's no point in being angry about it or anything like that. I always say that, You know, I don't regret anything that happens in my life because it does take you through, You know, Where you're supposed to be. And I love connecting the dots because I think, OK, I think it was Steve Jobs that said that you can only look back and connect the dots while you're going through it. Yes. You can't. But when you look back, I think, Ah, Because that happened, That happened. And then this happened and that's how I got here, You know. And then it's, You know, Really appreciating that feeling of, Oh, My goodness, I would never have got to this spot. And probably you might have in another roundabout way, You know, But but it's appreciating the steps that got you to where you are right now. Absolutely. Yeah, It's good. So was there any time that life felt a bit scary in terms of, You know, Outside pressures, You know, People saying, Well, What are you doing? Why are you doing this? Or the scary voices inside your head trying to push you off your path, You know, With any instances of that? I think I got scary out of the way really young. Like literally until it happened to me and I made that decision to not break. My biggest fear was standing out in the rain, You know, With a suitcase and nowhere to go. And that's pretty much what I manifested, Except the sun was shining and I did have somewhere to go, Thankfully. And like I've always been somebody who has gone with my own values and my own sense of integrity, Much more so than what other people were saying to me. So I've always had this, I don't know, You could call it courage, You could call it, You know, Fleeing forwards, You know, This isn't working. I'll just try this and this isn't working. I'll just try that and I'll just keep trying until I find something that does work, You know. So, Yeah, Like when I got married the first time, There was a lot of silence around it from the people that I loved because they could see I was walking into something very unhelpful and they also knew me well enough to know that I was too stubborn to back out. And that, You know, They were just holding space for me and going, I hope she's going to get out of this one. OK, You know. So in hindsight, I should have listened to that silence and gone, Hmm, You know, But that was me at that age, You know, 25 and got all the answers. Yeah, Yeah. Oh my, There's a whole bunch of questions I haven't yet come across. Yeah. Oh, Yeah, Scary is a thing that hits people in so many different ways. And so, Yeah, To be able to look back and think, Well, That was your big scariest thing in terms of and you overcame that so that it helped you to move forward then into the other areas and things that might come your way, Because you can look back at that and think, Do you know what? I got through that so I can get through this, You know. Exactly. Yeah. I'm going to wrap things up with a few quickfire questions, OK? So you've got a little bit of time to elaborate a little bit if you want to. My first question is, Do you understand what makes you truly happy? Yes, And it's a state of being. And the way that I get there is gratitude, Right, So I started practicing gratitude as a practice, So literally every day focusing in on what am I grateful for right now or what what have I got to be grateful for today at 33. So it's a very well practiced practice for me now. Yeah. And, You know, Like there's so many different ways of being happy, Really. Like if I have a really good, If I have a really lovely interaction at work, That makes me happy. You know, Seeing my staff makes me happy. Going down to the beach makes me happy. It's just so beautiful. So looking at the beauty there, It's just like that's my happy place. You know, Just yesterday, My husband and I went and had lunch with my best friend and her partner, And it was just such a beautiful day. And that makes me happy. And I love travel. So that makes me happy. So it's really a case of, You know, Taking that sense of it's almost like that that childish or childlike wonder at the world, You know, That I can get to via gratitude that then opens up to finding the things to be happy and appreciative of in any given moment. Yeah, That's that is true. When you say about the childlike way of looking at things, It was something that I remember reading something where a mother said that she was with her daughter and sort of like, I think they were sort of sat by the lake and it was really beautiful. And her daughter just sort of like stopped and started sort of like making a shape with her hands and just looking at it. And her mother was like, Well, What are you doing? And she said, I'm just taking a snapshot of this moment. And, You know, That's I loved that because, You know, I feel like I do that as well in terms of, You know, And I think I might have been more aware of that after I read that because that was quite a few years ago. But, You know, If I'm feeling really good somewhere or in a situation with particular people, I will stop in my mind and think about how amazing this moment is. And I can think back to these lovely moments that I've had, You know, And it's it gives you such an amazing feeling. So so, Yeah, Happiness, Happiness comes in all shapes and forms and times and experiences. The interesting thing about happy is it's likely to come to you if you don't chase it as well. You know, It's like the happiness mindset versus the growth mindset. Like this whole cultural thing around, Oh, I've got to be happy all the time or I've got a right to be happy. If you look at life as OK, So it's either tricky and you're growing and that's wonderful and that's going to make you happy or you're actually really enjoying the moment. And then that can make you happy, Happy. Yeah, You're actually you're actually, You know, In front either way. Yeah. So like with the growth mindset, It's like when you're happy, It's like, Oh, Wow, I've known a place where I can really appreciate this. I really enjoy it. I really feel happy with this. Instead of thinking, Oh, You know, Why is my car blue instead of red? Whatever, You know, Like you can you can focus on the things that actually are conducive to what's making you feel happy. Yeah. Instead of instead of picking at all the things that aren't quite right at the moment, You know? Yeah, It's like that thing. Like if you break down in the car and like you could look at it as, Oh, My God, I'm really unlucky. Look at this happening or whatever. But then I sort of think, Well, Actually, This could have happened when I was going further. I was going on my long journey somewhere. And, You know, Now I'm only just down the road. And, You know, So you think of all the positive things around that situation because life will happen. You know, Life is life in all the time. So we're just going to have to get through these things. But there's always something that you can think or you can be grateful for that. Yeah, Well, It happens, But I'm fortunate that it happened at this moment and not at that time or, You know. So, Yeah, That's an interesting concept around happiness. How are you with getting still to feel emotion? Yes, That's my that's my thing. Yeah, I think that's literally what my book is about. Yeah. I mean, It's taken a lot of practice. I use a technique called lifeline technique, Both as a practitioner and as a recipient that basically it's about identifying unhelpful subconscious beliefs and then replacing them with helpful ones. And part of that process is to literally feel in your body what that emotion is, Where it is, What it feels like, What it's telling you. What are the memories that go with it? And I've been involved with that technique for 12 years now or something like that. And it then becomes a practice as well. It's like, You know, I recently lost a dog. It was a neighbor's dog that I was walking when my own dog died. I started walking her instead. She was this beautiful, Beautiful dog, And she recently got hit by a car and was killed. And, You know, I would find myself being still and then the sadness would come up. I was like, Oh, Wow, Here's the sadness. It's that's because the dog's not here, You know. So, Yes, I feel like I do know how to do that. And I also know when I'm trying to distract myself from it, You know, That kind of frantic being in your mind, Not feeling your body when the body's going, You know, Right now, I really need to tell you about this. I need you to sit with me. Yeah, And let it move through you. You know, It's like, I just want to do the, You know, Whatever, You know, Exactly. So so I can observe myself and go, OK, Right now you're avoiding something. And, You know, I'm as human as anybody else. But, You know, The key is, Can you can you notice yourself doing these things, You know, And can you then go, OK, Right. I do need to actually sit with this. I need to allow this to be there. Yeah, Yeah. So sitting with the difficult times and the difficult thoughts is something a lot of us avoid, You know, When we can. And but, Yeah, I'm learning that as every day goes by to sit with the sad thoughts, With the sad feelings, With the, You know, The things that make me reflect, Because, You know, That those strengthen me as well. Those times give me strength as well. Yeah, Yeah. And, You know, Anger and impatience and all these all these is the more we can accept that that's a part of the human experience. Yeah. And the less we resist feeling in this way, The quicker they're going to move through our bodies and the quicker we're going to get to our natural state, Which is love. Yeah, Basically. So it's the it's like our society has conditioned us completely the wrong way, Which is resist everything at all costs, Pretend you're happy even when you're not, You know, And not giving people the tools to to actually realize, OK, Right now I'm feeling really yucky for whatever reason in whatever way. But that's OK, Because that's what the situation is calling for right now. Yeah, I had somebody in the other day. She lost her husband a couple of months ago. You know, She's only a young woman. They've got three small children and apparently people are saying to her, What aren't you back to good yet? You know, It's like she's just lost her husband. You know, Like grief takes time, You know, And it can take years and it comes in waves and it does. Absolutely. It's going to come in waves and years and even years and years, Probably a lifetime. But, You know, You'll get more and more less and less of those waves. But the waves are going to be there. I mean, I lost my dad like three, Four months ago. And honestly, The feeling is the sadness just hits you, You know, The sadness hits you. And I'm fortunate that I have like a good group of people around me that I can I can speak about it and I can say, You know, I'm feeling a bit like this today or whatever, You know, I don't feel like I need to hide that I feel unhappy. You know, If somebody says and I think we live in a world where people go, Are you OK? And we all say, Yes, I'm fine. And it's the first thing that we say, Oh, Yes, I'm fine. You know, But I've lived to sort of like say, You know, And yes, I've been you know, I've done that a lot to say because I've been such an independent person that I tend to sort of like say, Oh, I'm OK, I can get on with it, Whatever. But I've also learned to say, You know, I'm not feeling so good today. I've had a little bit of a rough time, You know, But, You know, I'm just sitting here with my thoughts. I'm spending a bit of time on my own and I can voice that, You know, Without people saying, Oh, Well, You know, Why are you feeling like this? Blah, Blah, Blah and whatever. You know, They just listen. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. That's you've done some very nice community building there. And that's, You know, This whole thing about, You know, I'm strong, Independent, I can do everything by myself, You know, Like that doesn't hold for very long. Like we are community. We are we are animals. You know, We are beings that thrive on community and on helping each other. You know, Like if you're able to help somebody that makes you feel good. You know, Like it's wired inside our beings that, You know, Holding space for somebody who's grieving feels like a privilege because, Wow, They trust me enough to be doing this right now. Yes. Yeah. And that's another one where the society is completely flip things on its head. You know, We need to be held by each other and everybody thrives more as a result. And the thing is, It's also understanding what someone needs when they are grieving as well, Because, You know, I know for myself, I'm OK to be alone. I'm OK to be alone when I'm sad. I can work my way through that. I can cry. I mean, I cried so much over the past three months, But it's been cleansing for me. And it's like the time that I need. And so, You know, If even a friend say to me, Well, You know, Maybe you shouldn't be alone right now or whatever. I'm like, No, I need to be alone. I deal with this so much better when I'm on my own, You know, But I know that they're holding space for me. So, Yeah, It's like everybody's different with what they need and it's being able to hear that from each other. Yeah. And I find it with grief, It kind of weaves in and out, Like sometimes it's nicer than just be with friends and not think about it and just be lighthearted. And then, You know, The next wave comes. Some people do better if they're in company. They can't cry unless they're being held by somebody. So, Yeah, It's very different for each person and for each person is going to be different depending on who it is that they've just lost, What they've just lost. Yeah, Exactly. And again, It's about being open to life and accepting what's going on and going, OK, So that's what's happening right now. Right now. Yeah. What's present right now. Yeah. And this takes me on to my next question. Have you found your tribe? Yes, I have. I have. It took a very long time. Well, It felt like it took a very long time. Like I met my current husband when I was 33 and he that was like one of those. Oh, Yeah, You and I, You know, Like they say, When you know, You know, Well, We certainly knew and there wasn't having to to like squeeze myself or morph myself into some strange shape in order to, You know, Be loved and accepted by him. So he was probably sort of my my first one that I was aware of. And and, You know, This I told you about that I had dinner with yesterday, Like we've known each other for two years and that was another one of those. Oh, My God, I've loved you my whole life. Where have you been? Kind of situation. So I feel really fortunate to have two people that are soulmates in that way. But finally, Now, Now that I'm at this age and I'm going back and I'm reconnecting more with friends that I had when I was growing up in Spain in particular, You know, Classmates and friends that at the time I didn't feel accepted by and loved. And now I realize that they will certainly do now, You know, And it's these beautiful heart relationships because we've known each other for this long and we went through stuff growing up together. But there's some things you just don't have to talk about. Now, So people are tribe now that I thought were my, You know, You know, Adversaries back in the day. And that is just such a lovely, Lovely experience to have. Now, I'm an introvert and I don't need a lot of people, But I need some really good people. Yeah, I'm the same. And then there's there's different degrees of that, Too. Like when I think about my staff at my work, You know, Each one of those people are just are my tribe, Too, But in a slightly different way because, You know, We're interacting at work rather than at home. Yeah. So, Yeah, So there are different types of tribes and I'm very lucky to have as many varieties of tribe as I do. And finally, Do you love yourself unconditionally? Well, That's a really big question, Isn't it? It is. Do you know what? There are parts of myself that I don't like. And I notice when they come up and then I go, OK, You're here for healing and acceptance and being loved because each part of me ended up as a part of me because that seemed to be the best way to get through whatever was going on at the time. And, You know, Again, Fight or flight, That was that was the best response I could come up with at the time. And now it's coming back up for me to see and go, OK, So what you're trying to remind me of is this. And, OK, I might not have liked how I was in that particular moment, But I can understand why it happened and I'm OK with not always being the person I would like to be. And again, There's, You know, There's this choice in the matter, You know, Like I have a pretty good sense of when ego comes in and when it's soul or heart and those parts are invariably ego. So I've got quite astute at, You know, Realizing when it's ego coming in and going, OK, That's one possible response. However, I'm not going to go with that. So, Yes, I do love myself. I do know my worth. I would like to think I love myself unconditionally, But I've also been on the planet long enough to know that that's a really big statement and it might not be entirely true. I like to think, I know, And I get the answer to this question is so varied, And I like to think that loving yourself unconditionally means that, You know, We're not perfect. You know, There are going to be bits of ourselves that we don't love. But loving ourselves unconditionally means that we love ourselves, Understanding that we are a work in progress, That we have perfect parts, That we are unique in who we are. We have amazing parts of ourselves and we have parts of ourselves that we're still working on, But we still appreciate all of who we are. So, You know, It's that whole thing. It is a difficult question because I know straight away we sort of think about, Oh, You know, But I'm not. I've got all these things that I don't like about myself. And, You know, And I don't really want to say, Oh, Well, I love myself, You know, All together because those things. But yeah, It's sort of understanding that it's all the bits of us that we are in a way a work in progress. So, Yeah, I guess you could answer the question differently, Too, And say, I love who I feel my soul to be unconditionally. Yeah. And I feel that my soul loves my human unconditionally. Yes, Yes. And then that answers the question, Doesn't it? It does. It does. Absolutely. Absolutely. Iris, It's been an absolute pleasure having you on my podcast. It's been fabulous talking to you.