The 'Problem' of Thinking in Meditation

A practical talk on how we can stop thinking of thinking as a 'problem' and form a new relationship with our thoughts.

Transcript

A short talk about the so called problem of thinking in meditation.

So this is something I've been reflecting on quite a bit recently in my own practice and because I'm writing a new book at the moment and there's a big section on the mind and thinking.

And I kind of realised I was kind of phrasing it in my head as this problem of thinking,

But very much with inverted commas,

Problem in inverted commas.

And maybe that's a good way and a good place to start.

It's just this idea that I think we still carry around this notion,

Whether it's conscious or whether it's slightly unconscious,

That thinking is a problem.

Thinking in meditation is a problem.

I sit down to meditate and there's thinking happening and this is a bad thing and I'm a bad meditator because it's happening.

There's quite a lot of value judgement around thinking.

And I think that's something we need to examine actually because the truth is that everyone thinks.

From the most beginning,

Starting out meditator to really advanced practitioners,

You know,

If you believe in,

You know,

Buddhas and saints,

They were thinking too.

They were thinking because they're human beings and human beings have brains and brains think.

And as long as we're alive and as long as we're conscious in our life,

Then our brains are thinking.

And that's true of everyone.

So I think there's this sort of hazy kind of mythological figure in our minds that there's an ideal meditator there who is not thinking.

There are no thoughts.

There's just blessed peace.

But that's not true.

The only difference between your ordinary everyday meditator,

Shall we say,

And,

You know,

The guru,

The highly advanced practitioner,

The Buddha,

Is that they aren't invested in their thinking.

That's worth kind of saying again,

You know,

They are not invested in their thinking.

They know that it is thinking.

They're aware that they're thinking and they're not invested in it.

But of course we are invested in it and then it becomes a problem.

Then it becomes a problem,

Something that we have to solve.

So I suppose the first thing that I want to say is let's not solve the problem.

Let's not try and solve this because it's not a problem and there's nothing to be solved.

And then we can start to just look very practically at what we can do with thinking in our meditation practice.

Or to put it another way,

If we come back to that idea of the advanced practitioner,

The really highly realized meditator,

Is that they have come into a different kind of relationship with their thinking.

They're no longer invested in it.

They're aware of thinking.

So they have formed a different kind of relationship with thinking.

And meditation is the process by which we form a different kind of relationship with thinking.

And meditation is actually a very practical thing.

When it's all said and done,

We can attach philosophy to it.

We can attach spirituality to it.

We can even attach medical value to it.

But in the end,

Meditation is a very simple and very practical act.

It's the act of sitting down and coming into relationship with our thinking and also with our sensations and with our perceptions,

With the whole of our experience.

But thinking does tend to be the layer of our experience that we become aware of very quickly and very easily because it's right there.

So if we're going to take this idea that meditation is actually a very practical thing,

Then let's think about some very simple and practical things that we can do to change our relationship with thinking so that we are more aware of it and so that we are no longer so invested in it.

And when I thought about this,

When I reflected on thinking,

Inevitably,

Of course,

I come back to my own experience because that's where it always starts.

And whenever I'm writing a book,

It always has to begin with,

You know,

What is my experience?

What has my experience been?

And then also,

You know,

What has been the experience of the people that I am sharing this with,

You know,

The people who come to my workshops or read my books?

So very practical ways of dealing with thinking,

Not even dealing with thinking,

Coming into a new relationship with thinking.

Isn't it interesting that even though I kind of know this stuff and I'm practicing it,

My mind still thinks that I have to deal with thinking.

And I suspect we all do that.

We all kind of come back to this sort of notion that there is a problem.

So this talk is for me just as much as for anyone who's listening.

So the first practical thing that I do and which I teach is to stop thinking of it as a problem and to stop thinking that it's something that we have to do something about.

Because the more we try and resist or banish thinking,

Of course,

The more thought and mental activity we're actually creating.

So I guess point number one is just end the end the resistance.

Stop trying to solve or fix and actually just allow thinking to be there.

Allow thinking to happen.

It's going to happen anyway.

Certainly one of the most humbling aspects of meditative experience is realizing how little control we actually have over our own minds.

So the first strategy for bringing ourselves into a new relationship with thinking is to simply allow it to happen.

Stop resisting.

Soften is a really good word.

And that's one I use a lot for myself when I'm practicing.

Soften.

So when we notice that thinking is happening,

Soften.

Don't resist it.

Don't chastise ourselves about it.

Just soften.

Allow that thinking is happening.

It's completely natural.

It's what brains do.

And when we stop resisting thinking,

When we soften,

We're being kind to ourselves.

We're being gentle to ourselves.

Instead of meeting this aspect of our experience with a wall of resistance or rejection,

We are actually allowing it to be there.

Kindly.

We are allowing it to be there.

We are allowing ourselves to be meditators who are currently in this moment thinking.

And when we do that,

We're of course making that step into a new relationship because we are becoming aware of thinking.

So it's really,

Really important when we become aware of thinking to not immediately go,

Oh my God,

There I was thinking,

This is terrible.

I was meant to be focusing on my breath.

Okay.

Because that's kind of a form of self chastisement.

What we want to do when we become aware of thinking is soften.

It's that gentle attitude to our thinking.

Okay.

There I am.

I'm thinking.

That's okay.

I've just noticed that.

That's a moment of success in the practice.

Every time we notice that we were thinking is a moment of success in the practice.

On days when I'm thinking a lot,

I'm really successful because I'm noticing it a lot.

And that's a much more gentle,

Much healthier way to come into a relationship with thinking.

Without that resistance,

All sorts of other things become possible.

Our responses become more creative.

They become more flexible and they definitely become kinder.

So the second point about practical ways to come into a new relationship with thinking is to label thinking.

So one strategy may be simply to return to the original focus of your meditation.

So you've noticed a thought pop into your head about,

Oh,

I must check my Facebook feed because so and so's got married and I want to see the photos.

And we'll notice that we're thinking and we'll come back to the focus of our meditation.

And depending on your practice,

That will vary what that is.

It might be the breath.

It might be bodily sensations.

It might be a mantra.

That's our kind of basic strategy,

But sometimes that's not enough.

We kind of,

We need to sort of make a stronger punctuation mark in the meditation process.

And so one way you can do that is simply by labeling the thinking process.

It's sort of an extra way of helping us to notice and to halt the chain of thought and come back to our original focus.

So for example,

We might just label thinking.

We might just say to ourselves,

Thinking,

Thinking,

And then we come back to our focus in our meditation.

Sometimes we might want a more specific label.

So for example,

We might just say,

Worrying,

Worrying,

Worrying.

That's all it is.

That's just,

That's just the thought.

It's a worry coming back to the focus of our meditation.

We might just label thoughts past,

Past or future,

Future,

Which are very common places for our minds to go.

And then coming back to the focus of our meditation again.

Now it's kind of up to you to play with this labeling.

I find if I get too specific with the labeling,

It just kind of sets me off on another round of thinking or I do too much thinking to find the label.

So it might be that just having two or three kind of strategic labels handy will be most beneficial for you.

It might just be you have thinking,

Thinking,

And the repetition is quite helpful.

You might have past and future,

Or it might be that you notice that you have obvious and particular ways of thinking.

So worry might be a good way to label it.

Or for example,

Planning,

Which is another really common one that we all do.

So,

You know,

Get creative with your labeling,

Experiment a little in your practice,

But see how this process of labeling thinking helps you to become more aware and more mindful and return to the focus of your meditation more quickly.

Okay,

Another idea,

Point number three,

Which is one that I counted a few years ago,

A couple of years ago,

And I found really helpful that was doing some study around the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta,

Which is one of the early Buddhist suttas about mindfulness,

Was actually to not just allow thinking to be there,

Which was point number one,

But to actually almost imagine that you're sitting yourself down in your meditation practice in a wide open space in which the thinking is happening.

So it might be that it's just a vague sense of spaciousness of body and mind.

And you're just aware of yourself being in the center of that space.

And when thinking arises,

It's almost like you're just seeing the thoughts moving through the space.

One sort of really imaginative way that someone suggested was almost imagine that you're in a field,

You're sitting in a field,

And your thoughts are just sort of animals roaming around.

They're just kind of there grazing,

Browsing,

Chewing the cud,

Maybe scratching a bit against a post if they're a bit itchy,

But they're just kind of there around you.

And you're that still point of presence and awareness in the middle of the space.

So you're not driving the animals out of the field.

We're not tensing against them.

Nor are we labeling them.

We're not going we're not saying that's a cow thought and that's that's a pig thought and and that's a llama thought.

We're just we're just aware of the thoughts in the space of our awareness.

And we kind of let them kind of roam around and we allow ourselves to be mindful of that,

That just thinking is sort of happening.

When I practice,

Sometimes I get the image of almost like the thoughts being like bubbles in in fizzy water just sort of rising to the surface.

They've broken they've gone.

Another one arises I can when I look in a glass of fizzy water,

I can never actually see where the bubble starts.

It's just suddenly there.

And thoughts are very much like that.

They just suddenly appear in the mind and even when we're very deeply focused and aware,

And we maybe see the the beginnings much earlier,

But I certainly for myself,

Even on long meditation retreats,

I've never really found the root of thinking they just suddenly seem to appear in the mind.

So just being in the center of the space of your awareness,

And allowing the thoughts to just be there to arise within it,

And to pass away,

Which is what they will do when we're being aware.

It's only when we kind of jump on the thought,

And we kind of perpetuate it,

We get on that train of thought that you know,

Thinking continues.

Certainly from neuroscience point of view,

90 seconds is about as long as a single kind of thought bite,

If you like to call it that,

You know,

Kind of exists in the brain after that,

It goes on for longer,

Because we keep rethinking it.

So if we can kind of hold ourselves gently and soften in that space of awareness,

Whether we,

We just see it as the space of awareness,

Or whether we,

We think of it as that field with the animals roaming around,

Or even,

You know,

The space being the sky and the clouds of the thoughts floating through,

Which is another very common image for meditators.

If we can just just allow ourselves to be at that still point,

And,

And just allow the thoughts to kind of come into being and pass away,

Just actually watching them coming into being and passing away,

Which they will.

And that's a really,

That's a really fascinating process to be part of.

That's a really special part of meditation.

When we start to see our thoughts just arising,

And because we don't jump on them just passing away,

We start to realise how ephemeral and unreal our thinking actually is.

And that's,

Again,

All part of this coming into a new relationship with thinking.

It's all part of learning to not invest in thinking so much,

And we see how they just arise and pass away.

So that's,

That's idea number three.

Idea number four is kind of connected with that.

So another suggestion,

Practical suggestion for coming into a new relationship with thinking in meditation is when the thought does arise and actually really watch it closely.

And not only that,

When there are,

There seems to be no thinking,

Watch,

Allow yourself to be aware of waiting for the next thought to arise.

You know,

When you when you find that moment of stillness in the meditation,

It might only be for briefest of moments,

Just kind of open yourself up to the space of mind,

Open yourself up within the space of awareness and allow yourself to wait for the next thought.

I can't explain it better than that.

It's not an active process.

You're not going looking for it exactly,

But in the same way,

You're,

You're not completely passive either.

You're,

You're just sort of alert is maybe the best word actually,

Thinking about it,

You're alert for thinking you're,

You're in a relaxed way,

You're kind of just sort of alert and waiting in that space of awareness.

It's kind of like,

Okay,

Thoughts,

I'm waiting.

What one next?

Who's coming next?

And what's really interesting when we do that is the thoughts don't seem to come.

Suddenly,

They're not happening.

And then we have a thought going,

Oh,

It's not happening.

And of course,

That's a thought.

And then we're aware of that too.

But actually,

Just hanging out in that space of awareness and being awake and alert and curious,

Having a curious attitude about what's happening in the mind.

This sort of like,

Okay,

I'm aware,

Aware.

Where's the thinking?

So that's something to kind of play with an experiment with really just,

Just see what happens.

See what happens when you you're alert for thinking.

But I'm kind of willing to admit a bit not admit that you'll probably find that you're thinking less.

Thinking happens less when you're waiting for the next thought.

It's not necessarily something we want to do all the time in our practice,

But it's very interesting kind of way of learning about your relationship to thoughts.

And again,

Shifting it changing it a little bit.

So I talked about quite a bit so far about this space of awareness,

The mind space,

Being at the still point and guess that's where we got to know that number five point number five is to just kind of look for that,

That sweet spot in our practice where we are aware,

And we're aware that we're aware.

And when we find it,

Actually allow ourselves to rest in that can be aware of that.

I think really useful ways of noticing that is noticing the stillness within our bodies and our minds.

So body and mind,

They're kind of the same thing.

Let's not keep thinking all up in the mind.

Let's let's allow the whole body to be around the process and coming into relationship with it.

So looking for the stillness in our experience in this moment,

Looking for the stillness,

Looking for the silence as well,

The quiet,

Which is what I'm just doing right now.

And when we do that,

When we do that,

There's very little thinking.

So we can learn to just rest our awareness in that stillness in that silence.

And it's hard to say where that is.

I know I've practiced with this a long time and it seems to be in the body and mind,

The body mind,

But it's not.

It's outside as well.

It's around me.

Even when there's sounds,

There is still a stillness,

A silence,

And it's very quiet.

It's very peaceful.

And there's very little thinking attached to that.

So yeah,

And that next practical step is just to look for the stillness,

The silence in your experience.

And see,

Rather than holding onto that clinging onto it,

Just rest in it for as long as you find it.

But don't kind of clutch and don't search desperately.

It's right there,

Right now actually.

Let's all just take a moment to take a breath in and out and become aware of the sounds around us.

And then around and woven into the sounds,

Just becoming aware of a kind of still silence.

It's kind of outside us,

But also inside us too.

And if you just get a little taste or flavor of that,

Just relax into it.

Just breathing,

Being.

How was that?

How much thinking was happening?

And how did being in that space of stillness,

That space of awareness,

Change your relationship to thinking in that moment?

It's just worth reflecting on that.

So more practical steps,

More practical steps.

Point number six,

Coming into the body,

Which is kind of my go to practice,

To be honest.

I've spent more than 20 years mindfulness practice and very soon I realized that actually what I needed most was to come into the body,

Come into the experience of the body.

I'm naturally someone who is very up in my head.

I've got a very active mind.

And dealing with thinking,

There is the dealing again,

Coming into relationship with thinking is something that's,

It's a lifetime practice for me.

And it probably always will be.

I haven't got any expectation that it's going to end,

But I've learned a lot from it.

I've definitely learned a lot from it.

So really practical.

If you're noticing that there's a lot of thinking happening and you can't access that stillness,

That silence,

Because sometimes we can't,

You may not have been able to do it just now and that's absolutely fine.

Then a really practical,

Very grounding way of coming into that new relationship with thinking is to come into the experience of the body.

I remember a few years ago on meditation retreat,

I was sitting and we were sitting for long periods each day.

And I was sort of alternating between sitting and reflecting on,

On letting go,

Which is something I've I found and still do find very difficult to do a meditation and in life too sometimes quite often in fact.

And,

You know,

I must let go of mind,

I must let go of thinking,

You know,

And,

And I suddenly had this sort of epiphany,

It probably took me many years more than most people to come to this conclusion.

But I realized that,

You know,

That the part of me that was holding on that couldn't let go was my mind and that I was trying to use my mind to solve the problem of holding on.

But my mind was the thing that was holding on in the first place.

And it was sort of like sort of one of those puzzles where you finally kind of bit like the Rubik's Cube,

You sort of suddenly finally realize how to do it.

I kind of went,

Oh,

So I just have to stop using my mind then.

Okay.

And at that moment,

I just dropped into my body.

I just let go of mind and I dropped into my body and spent the rest of the day just in my body.

Just breathing,

Just sitting.

And every time it seemed like I was moving more into thinking and every time I started trying to solve the problem of holding on or letting go,

I just dropped back into the body.

And I think this,

This relationship with thinking is very much characterized by us trying to work out the relationship with our mind and our mind is the thing that's doing the thinking and then we try and work it out and that's more thinking.

So,

You know,

Really just dropping into the body,

Connecting with the sensations in the body,

Feeling the space of awareness and being the space of awareness in the body rather than the head.

Because I think often in meditation,

When we think of the space of awareness,

It's kind of somehow behind our eyes.

And that is often our experience because we're so wired in our brains to kind of associate with our eyes and that being sort of center of our consciousness.

But actually dropping into the body and being the awareness in the body,

Which is different from looking down on the body with awareness from above,

Just,

It's almost like a kind of a shift of focus.

It's a bit like those,

Those magic drawings,

Magic eye drawings they had a few years ago where you had to kind of look at them in the right way in order to see the picture.

So that's kind of what I'm talking about.

It's kind of a shift in perspective,

In perception,

So that we're the awareness in the body,

Rather than looking down on the body with awareness.

I could probably do a whole talk on that,

But I won't go into it in more detail now,

But just play with that.

Can you let go of thinking in whatever way helps labeling,

Noticing the thoughts in awareness,

And then drop into the body being the awareness in the body,

Feeling the sensations in the body,

For example,

From the inside from where they are rather than looking down on them.

So it's the difference from having a sensation of cramping,

For example,

In the foot,

If you're sitting cross legged during meditation and kind of looking down at that sensation of cramping and kind of going,

Ah,

Yes,

That's cramping.

So the difference between that and being the awareness and sensation in the foot and feeling the cramping from the inside out.

That's probably the best example I can give.

So just experiment with that.

Just experiment with dropping down deeply into the body.

And as part of that,

Of course,

We can also come deeply into connection with the breath,

Which is maybe my final point today.

Is that seven?

I think it's seven.

I've just sat down and talked this evening.

The words were there and the ideas were there and I just thought,

Right,

I'm going to share it now.

So I didn't make any notes.

So I think that's point number seven.

I'll top them up at the end and let you know in the description of this how many points there are,

But I think that's number seven.

So number seven in our dropping into the body is to connect with the breath.

And I guess that's the age old classic practical way of coming into a new relationship with thinking.

If our minds are very,

Very scattered,

If all other strategies for friending our thinking relationship aren't working,

Then coming back to the breath,

Being the sensations of the breath,

Moving in the body,

Not looking down on the breath,

But really feeling and being the breathing.

And if we need to counting the breath.

So counting before the in breath,

One,

Breathing in,

Breathing out to breathing in,

Breathing out and doing that for a while and then reversing the process and counting at the end of the out breath,

Breathing in,

Breathing out one,

Breathing in,

Breathing out to experiment with those two,

Try them in different order,

Counting after the breath first and then on the second round counting at the beginning of the in breath.

But that process of counting and really closely dropping into the sensations of the breath is a really great way to just get ourselves more focused and more concentrated just to kind of bring us into that state of calm abiding into that state where we can access that stillness,

That silence.

And from that space,

Yeah,

Then we start to really explore our relationship with thinking,

We start to see what the nature of thinking is,

As well as our relationship to it.

And when we do that,

Yeah,

Then we stop investing so much in thinking.

And we stop trying to solve the problem of thinking because we begin to realise and really not just realise but absolutely know that they are each thought indeed just like little bubbles arising in fizzy water and they're completely empty.

Just like bubbles,

They burst and they're gone.

And what's left is awareness.

Reviews

Wendy is very inspiring.

Extremely helpful! Thank you for sharing.

Thanks for the talk 🙏 I liked the idea about animals the most and I'm gonna check labeling and dropping into the body during the day :)

Wonderful talk - thank you :)

Love the bubble analogy!

Great voice and tone, quite hipnotizing.

Stillness, silence, space...rest🙏
Thank you!

As someone who has an overactive mind this was very helpful, thanks. I’ll listen to this a few more times 😊

related totally to your experiences with thoughts, thank you words of wisdom,
Has helped with my morning practice as well as through out the day, will listen again and look forward to a follow on 🙏

Great tips on coming back to body