For The Sake Of All Beings: Compassion In Modern Times

This talk on bodhicitta and taking refuge was given at the North Carolina Zen Center. Bodhicitta is explored as an aspiration to attain awakening in order to be of service to others on their own path to awakening. Taking refuge in Buddha, dharma and sangha are discussed as a support structure for bodhicitta. Of interest is the conversation which happened after the talk, exploring how to develop these practices in a time of social and political division.

Transcript

So before I start,

I want to say that I'm going to be using this word suffering a lot in this talk.

And I want to talk for just a minute about that because,

You know,

There's a lot of things we can think about when we think about suffering.

We can think about drought,

We can think about starvation,

We can think about child abuse,

We can think about all kinds of things.

The word in Pali that you've heard before,

Dukkha,

Which has traditionally been translated as suffering.

What the word actually means,

Interestingly,

Is a wheel that doesn't fit properly onto the axle.

And so it's bumpy,

It's not a smooth ride.

And as a consequence,

More recently,

In recent years,

People have been using rather than the word suffering,

They've been using words like disease.

And so I want you to just consider suffering in broader aspects,

Things that have to do with our own uncomfortability in terms of the things that we cling to but really can't have,

In terms of the things that we're trying to push away but really should be dealing with.

Living in a reality where impermanence is the only thing that is constant and yet not understanding that.

This is also disease,

This is also suffering,

This is also dukkha.

So the whole gamut,

I guess is what I'm saying.

Our topic today is bodhicitta,

Which is a word that I think some of you are probably familiar with.

We don't really talk about it a lot in our tradition,

Though they do in Tibetan traditions especially.

And often bodhicitta is discussed in relation to the four immeasurable minds,

Loving kindness,

Compassion,

Shared joy,

And equanimity,

Which some of you have heard me speak about before.

These four immeasurable minds are not our topic today but they do figure into the idea of bodhicitta in a pretty key way.

Pema Chodron,

Who some of you may have read,

A teacher in the Tibetan tradition,

She speaks of how conditions in our lives,

Circumstances in our lives can harden us.

They can make us resentful,

They can make us afraid,

Or she says,

Circumstances in our lives can soften us.

They can make us kind and they make us open.

And she encourages us to realize that we always have this choice in how we're going to respond to circumstances.

And in Buddhism this choice is powered by this quality of bodhicitta.

So let's take this word apart for a minute.

Bodhi,

You've heard this before,

Bodhisattva.

It comes from the root word bud,

As does buddha,

It means awake or awakened,

Completely open.

Citta is mind,

Heart,

Or attitude.

So bodhicitta,

Completely open heart and mind.

Awakened heart and mind.

Or awakening heart and mind.

But awaken to what?

That's the question in terms of bodhicitta.

And what we awaken to is a spontaneous wish to achieve enlightenment,

To attain awakening.

Do I have the feeling that this is the right path for me?

That to work toward a more awakened state is the right thing for me to be doing?

Simply said,

Bodhicitta is a yearning for awakening.

The Dalai Lama calls bodhicitta a primary mental consciousness,

The aspiration to attain full awakening.

And how does this aspiration arise?

Through our practice.

Particularly of things like the four immeasurable minds,

Through which we come to consider the suffering of others more deeply.

And the more our awareness and suffering grows,

The more deeply we're called to practice love,

Compassion,

Equanimity,

All of these spiraling and deepening support of one another,

Awareness and practice.

And as our practice deepens,

We come to wish for others to be free from suffering and not just ourselves.

And we begin to examine how we can be best of service,

How we can be of benefit to others.

And we can conclude that the answer is to deepen our practice further still,

Raising the bodhi mind.

An open mind,

An awake mind,

Developing the qualities of a Buddha.

And so our aspiration for awakening is born.

Bodhicitta.

But to understand this aspiration and its reasoning,

We have to consider the primary difference between the foundational Buddhist practices of the Theravadin traditions and what we mean by awakening in our practices in Mahayana traditions such as Zen Buddhism.

In some ways the two are very similar.

Many Mahayana teachings are based directly in Theravadin teachings,

The Four Noble Truths,

The Eightfold Path,

The Four Immeasurable Minds for that matter.

And while both traditions are respected for their spiritual attainments in a fundamental way,

The choice between the two paths really depends on the disposition of the individual.

For despite their similarities,

There is one very key difference.

Those who are practicing in Theravadin traditions,

They seek their own liberation,

Using Dharma as a method to become an arhat.

You may have heard that word before,

A person who's gained insight into the nature of existence,

Somebody who has attained nirvana,

Freedom from that wheel of suffering.

Those following Mahayana traditions,

As we do here,

We engage in many of the same practices,

Including a renunciation of suffering.

However,

And this is the point,

Mahayana practitioners renounce not only their own suffering,

But the suffering of others.

Suffering of all sentient beings.

In our tradition,

We don't practice simply for our own well-being,

Though that's certainly important,

But rather so that we can work to help others along the path of their own awakening.

And it's for this reason that we aspire to full awakening.

Bodhicitta calls us toward awakening so that we can aid all beings on their path of awakening.

All beings without number,

I vow to liberate.

Sound familiar?

The energy of bodhicitta is the mind's aspiration to attain awakening,

It's an altruistic intention to live in such a way that we create conditions that encourage the awakening of others.

To want to do this,

To yearn for it,

To take this practice on,

To live it as a vow,

That's the energy of bodhicitta.

Thing is,

Though,

This can leave us kind of vulnerable,

I know it can meet sometimes,

Almost like an open wound,

Because some people are not easy to approach in that way.

That's the challenge of compassion.

That's the challenge of loving kindness and the practice of equanimity.

It can be difficult.

We often look away from suffering in ourselves and in others because we don't want to recognize it,

Because it frightens us.

But as we deepen our practice,

We can create openings in those barriers.

We can learn to use our vulnerable moments to awaken our desire to help to deepen our bodhicitta.

And then we express ourselves not in doubt,

Not in fear,

But rather in our innate abilities to love and to care.

But how do we learn to approach suffering in skillful ways?

That's always the challenge.

Approaching ourselves and approaching others in the face of their suffering and in our own reactive patterns of clinging and aversion to what we think is right and what we think is wrong.

This is where I remember the notion of the bodhisattva,

Which is a word we talk about a lot.

Our teachings tell us that a bodhisattva is an enlightened being,

One who doesn't cross to the shores of enlightenment until all beings have gone before.

We hear this in the Heart Sutra just a minute ago.

Ghatte,

Ghatte,

Paraghatte,

Parasamghatte,

Bodhisvaha.

Gone,

Gone,

Everyone gone,

To the other shore.

Bodhisvaha,

Awakening.

Hallelujah,

If you will.

The practice of a bodhisattva,

An enlightened being.

But in light of Dogen's thought on the unity of practice and enlightenment,

I tend to sort of democratize this idea into a bodhisattva ideal.

To describe people more like us,

People who are working toward awakening.

Someone who is living an honest path for themselves,

Working with precepts,

Bringing positive awakening energy to others,

Vowing to save all beings,

Seeking our own awakening through aiding others,

Walking the bodhisattva path,

Deepening our own bodhicitta.

And everything we do in our Zen practice helps us with this.

And we begin to experience a falling away of that delusion that each of us is somehow in a separate existence from everything else,

Even though it can feel that way.

We come to understand that everything exists in that interdependent web that we've talked about.

No thing is separate unto itself,

But all things create conditions that are needed for each and every other thing to be.

Dependent co-arising.

That things come into being because conditions are there which allow them to come into being.

This can only exist because these exist.

So we're in this relationship with everything and everyone around us.

And this consideration,

Really thinking about that relationship and starting to feel an openness in connection,

These are the signs of an awakening mind.

And I use that adjective pretty specifically.

Awakening mind,

Because whether or not I will ever reach enlightenment myself,

Fully awakened,

A true bodhisattva,

I mean,

I don't know.

I'm just going to have to wait and see about that.

But I can hope that I'm on a path toward awakening.

And as Dogen suggests,

This may actually be the same thing.

Because if you're genuinely and honestly on that path,

That in itself,

The desire to be awakened,

Practicing toward that,

That in itself is a kind of awakening.

So don't ever,

You know,

Do the joke that I just made,

Right?

Whether or not I'll ever be awakened because in some ways I already am.

And so are you.

Bodhicitta is to awaken to the reality of a deeply interconnected life.

We're all being shared in Buddha nature.

It's not simply a feeling or an emotion or a sentiment even.

It's more than that.

Bodhicitta is a realization.

And frankly,

One that runs counter to our social conditioning of separateness.

Our society encourages us to feel that each one of us is really the most important thing.

That each one of us is really the center of life.

But remember that bodhicitta embraces a seeing into the interwoven nature of experience itself.

And the desire to take on a selfless,

Strong practice.

Now there are two levels of this.

Relative bodhicitta and unconditional bodhicitta.

And both are good practices.

Relative bodhicitta is a building of gladness and hope within ourselves.

When we can hear ideas like these,

When we can work to keep our hearts and minds open to the suffering of others without becoming overwhelmed.

Without shutting down.

Without thinking,

You know,

I just can't do this.

This opening of our hearts and minds.

It's a wonderful practice to teach ourselves this,

To sit in the midst of suffering and be able to feel it and to care for it.

That's a valuable choice that we can make.

Unconditional bodhicitta is more like a transformation.

The more we put our hearts and our minds into this,

The more our life experiences begin to be free of concepts,

Of the opinions and judgments which cause us to feel separate from others.

We begin to live into the connections of dependent co-arising.

We don't just understand these connections intellectually.

We start to experience them directly.

And they become the reality in which we live.

So it's about practice.

Those who really practice in building bodhicitta and an awakened mind,

We start to see more clearly the suffering of others.

We learn how to enter into more challenging situations and to relieve suffering as we can.

And I believe that our best tool for this is a willingness to dismantle our own reactive patterns of clinging and aversion.

For me,

It's especially key.

I mean,

I work with a lot of different people and you all do too.

I work with young people of a variety of ages.

And like you,

I have co-workers that I like and that I get along with.

And I have other co-workers that are less so,

Let's say.

But if I'm really going to be thinking about their well-being,

All of them,

I have to see my own reactivity to people in situations.

I have to manage that.

I have to see what my own self-deceptions are,

My delusion of separateness,

The idea that I can just brush someone aside.

Because can I,

Really?

Bodhicitta brings us to realize that we can't just walk away.

Because if we really are talking about dependent co-arising,

If we really are talking about an integrated network of being,

Where is it that we think we're going to walk away to,

Anyway?

So we train ourselves and we work to awaken the courage that this can take to reach out in as many ways as we can,

And as often as we can,

To save the many beings.

Now,

There are different methods that we can use to cultivate this kind of bravery,

If you will,

Because it is easier to simply back away.

One of these methods,

Obviously,

Is meditation.

We can use our experiences in meditation to sense this unity that we're talking about.

But another,

And perhaps more immediate way,

Is to consider a practice of these four immeasurable minds,

Loving-kindness,

Compassion,

Shared joy,

And equanimity.

As I said a few minutes ago,

These really are the roots of awakening bodhicitta.

They're tools of practicing bodhicitta,

And I encourage anyone to build these practices and to bring them into your lives and to bring them to others.

Still,

We all know that you can practice loving-kindness,

You can practice compassion,

We can train ourselves in recognizing suffering and rousing bodhicitta,

But it doesn't mean everything's always going to have a happy ending.

That's just reality.

But our practice is not to avoid uncertainty and fear.

Rather,

Our practice is a question of how we relate to these things,

How we practice with our emotions and the unpredictable,

Difficult situations that we find ourselves in.

But we do have one assurance,

And you may have heard these words before,

Hatred never ceases by hatred,

But by love alone is it healed.

This is an ancient and eternal law.

Bodhicitta is a spirit which can transform any activity,

Any word,

Any thought,

Into a vehicle for the awakening of our compassion.

And we see the possibility for this so clearly in the four bodhisattva vows,

The four vows that we recite every time we have a chanting service.

And they're so big,

You know,

That's why they're called the great vows.

All beings without number,

I vow to liberate them.

Endless blind passions,

I vow to uproot.

Dharma gates beyond measure,

I vow to penetrate.

The great way of Buddha,

I vow to attain.

Now when I was first hearing these things,

It always felt like they presented something of an inherent contradiction.

The many beings are numberless and I vow to save them.

I'm going to save all these many beings?

No.

But I'm going to try.

Greed,

Hatred,

Delusion rise endlessly,

I vow to abandon them.

Will I really?

Am I never going to get irritated with someone?

Yeah,

I am.

But you know,

I'm going to try.

It's about intention.

The great way of Buddha beyond measure,

I vow to embody it fully.

To the best of my ability.

With the understanding that sometimes I'm going to be the greatest thing ever and other times I'm going to fall flat on my face.

So we need some structure for this.

How do we really do this?

How do we abandon the attractions of greed?

The fire of aggression?

How do we save the many beings?

How do we move and act as Buddha?

How do we be Buddha among our peers in our lives?

We can have so much faith in the possibility of goodness,

So much hope in being of service to the enlightenment of others.

But we need a structure,

And in Buddhism the most basic structure of all is taking refuge.

I take refuge in Buddha.

I take refuge in Dharma.

I take refuge in Sangha.

But it's the funny thing,

That word refuge,

You know,

What does that really mean?

Because usually we think about the idea of refuge,

Of seeking refuge,

When we're faced with danger and we're in need of protection,

When we're trying to find a safe place.

And that can leave some of us with an odd feeling.

I mean,

Is the Buddha somehow larger than me?

Is the Buddha somehow going to save me?

Is the Buddha able to save me?

But that's not what refuge,

What taking refuge is about.

Because again,

Buddha is not omniscient,

Like we talked about last week.

Buddha is not all-powerful.

He was a human being,

Subject to all the same hardships and foibles that we are.

But he developed a path and a teaching,

Something that has been shared with us,

That we can be Buddha,

That we already are Buddha.

We just have to figure that out.

We just have to see it,

Find it within ourselves.

Taking refuge is not about finding a safe place.

It's more about discovering qualities within ourselves that are attuned to this spiritual path.

Like bowing,

We talked about last week,

The act of taking refuge is not an act of reverence,

Not a position of weakness.

Instead,

Taking refuge can help us find the Buddha nature that is inside of each one of us.

And when we really come to see it,

We can use this to better understand and deal with the circumstances in our lives.

So in that sense,

Taking refuge is more a position of strength,

If that makes sense.

It's a way of helping ourselves by putting ourselves into a spiritual structure.

I take refuge in Buddha.

We take refuge in our own Buddha nature,

A seed of understanding that we can bring along and help to grow.

An understanding of interdependence,

Non-attachment from the idea that we're separate from everyone else,

That we have a spirit which stands with the example of Buddha,

A spirit that can find deeper understanding and can embrace a sense of hope.

I take refuge in Dharma,

The Dharma as a path,

Not simply a collection of teachings.

It's a philosophy of life where deeper understanding helps us to see awakening as a task of creating conditions,

Which encourage,

Again,

Not only our own awakening,

But the awakening of others.

And I take refuge in Sangha,

Sangha as a base of friendship,

Trust,

Strength,

Support.

We're all here together this morning.

We're Sangha this morning.

But not just friendship and support for ourselves,

But also for the opportunity to bring these things to one another,

The opportunity to serve.

When you go into a building,

When you come into the Zindo here,

You have to step through a doorway.

And in Buddhism,

Taking refuge is the threshold,

The Buddhist practice.

Taking refuge is the entryway in the Buddhist practice.

Back in the Buddha's time,

It was really all you had to do to join that original Sangha.

The actual process was simply to recite the three refuges.

There's a quote that I love from The World Honored One,

That's how it reads,

Meaning the Buddha.

The World Honored One said,

When ordinary people become apprehensive over something that seems foreboding,

They often seek refuge in such places as mountains or parklands,

As well as in some monastery,

Up some tree,

Or in some mausoleum.

These refuges are not particularly of the highest quality,

Nor are they the most valuable.

People cannot free themselves from human suffering by relying on such refuges.

When people take refuge in the Buddha,

The Dharma,

And the Sangha,

Then by means of their wise discernment,

They continually observe everything from within the four Noble Truths,

Namely being aware of suffering,

Being aware of how suffering accumulates,

Being aware of how suffering is transcended,

And being aware of the Noble Eightfold Path.

Taking this refuge is to take the most excellent refuge.

It is the one to be most valued.

Without failure,

It is by means of taking refuge in this way that we can rid ourselves of suffering.

So taking refuge is really an expression of our hope and commitment to finding our better nature.

Bodhicitta is the requisite strength and motivation for taking refuge.

It's kindling flame.

Faith in your own awakening,

Faith in the path that you've chosen,

Faith in the community around you,

And that these can lead to an end of the suffering for ourselves and for all beings.

Taking refuge has to come from the depth of your heart.

It has to come from the marrow of your bones,

Which can lead us to some pretty profound questions.

Who am I really?

What is this life?

How do I make my practice matter in life?

We consider these questions,

And in time and with practice,

We become diligent in their investigation,

More and more unafraid of what we might discover.

Buddhism is a process of reflection and transformation.

Our vow is to realize our true nature in which we are one with all things,

To know that we exist in a harmony which we can find,

And to allow our liberated self to manifest itself freely.

That's our work.

I invite you all to offer your thoughts.

It's been coming up a lot recently,

The people who I know,

Who I love,

Who I care for,

That are QAnon,

Anti-vaxxers,

What's the other word?

But I want to know how to deal with these people.

To me,

It's like,

Okay,

We've given them our love,

Our attention,

Our hope for better non-suffering.

They're deluded.

There's nothing we can do.

We have no control over it,

But we do not have to associate with them,

Do we?

Let me say first that you're right,

You have no control over it.

There is something you can do,

And you've already said it.

You give them your love.

You bring a sense of compassion for their delusion.

You know what I mean?

Because our love and compassion is not for us.

It's for them.

We have to offer love and compassion to people whether we agree with them or not.

Now,

As to your question,

Do we have to associate with them,

I think one,

It depends on how well you're going to be able to manage your own reactions.

Are you going to bring anger and resentment and whatnot into that relationship?

If so,

Then don't,

Because it's not our job to bring that.

I think it's okay to make the choice to not associate with them.

You know what I mean?

But you just have to be careful of your motivations,

And you have to be careful to keep the spirit of compassion and understanding alive.

To my mind,

These people's delusion is a form of suffering.

You know what I mean?

And it's creating suffering for our culture at large.

Oh,

Huge number of suffering.

And one has just gotten really pissed at me.

He hung up the phone yesterday.

But you know,

For instance,

My wife,

The person who cuts her hair,

Falls into these categories.

And my wife was like,

I don't want her to cut my hair anymore,

But darn it,

She does such a good job.

And you're like,

Well,

Hold on a second.

What's really going on here?

She's known this woman for years,

Since way before any of this started.

It's like,

Can you continue to bring yourself to be with her and just not talk about this stuff and let her employ her skill and maintain a relationship with another human being in spite of these things and just not talk about it.

But aren't you then allowing them to stay in that space?

I can't break these people out of it.

No.

That's the thing.

So it's not up to me to allow them to.

My thing is,

By staying with them,

You're almost encouraging them to continue to stay deluded,

Whereas by cutting them off.

Well,

What if you think of this?

By staying with them,

You offer them an alternative energy.

You offer them your friendship.

You offer them your companionship,

Which may have an effect on them,

Whether you get to see that effect or not.

True.

True.

But it's hard.

I get it.

No,

It's not hard.

I've just reached this stage in my life where I just don't want to deal with this bullshit anymore.

It's just like too much.

So I have all the love and compassion in the world for them,

And you know what's going on.

It's just like I don't want to hear about it.

True.

But you can also say to somebody,

I really don't want to talk about these things.

And if they can't refrain from that,

I think you're fine to pull back.

Okay.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And be clear with the person.

I've asked you not to talk about these things.

You continue to do it.

It makes me uncomfortable,

And I'm going to have to pull away from you.

So to my mind,

The compassionate thing is to continue the relationship.

Yeah.

But not to allow yourself to be overwhelmed by that negativity.

No.

Or even to just have to receive it.

Karen,

Do you want to say something?

No.

I can always tell when you want to say something.

Oh,

You can?

Yeah.

I can't wait for us to move.

Since you spoke exactly where I was going to go with my question,

Because I kept thinking over and over as you were talking,

And by the way,

This was obviously very charming and excellent.

What about the people who are refusing to get the vaccine?

This is where my eye go a little higher.

We've had some discussions in our family tonight.

I think Walensky recently said that we have now a pandemic of the non-vaccinated or the unvaccinated.

Right.

This is just completely irresponsible as far as I'm concerned.

And one of my kids says outright,

We shouldn't be paying them,

We should not be paying their hospital bills.

Well,

I mean,

I don't go there.

You have to care for these people.

You absolutely have to care for them.

But it's an interesting and an intriguing idea.

What is it that we can do to have these people see how dangerous they are to themselves,

But also to me?

That's exactly the point.

To all of us.

That it's not a matter of personal choice.

I agree with you.

You don't want to get the vaccine because you don't care that you get COVID,

Okay?

But what about the idea of you contracting COVID and passing that along to others?

You know,

Somebody liking that I can make the choice to drink and drive.

Well,

Great,

Except when you run into somebody and kill them.

Exactly.

I don't have an answer for you.

Can I have a word with you?

Yeah,

Please.

This is just an interesting discussion because this is something that happened to me in a martial arts realm.

A teacher of mine who had been teaching for a good 20 years went down a dark path and started going this realm and I had to ask myself,

You know,

Do I stick with it?

Is it impacting his teachings?

Is it not?

Now for me,

I think that you could almost see this throughout history.

You know,

There's tons of groups that have gone against the main group and there's all these sides to different discussions.

You know,

There are right now even in Burma and Myanmar there are Buddhists who are picking up weapons and letting go of their claws to fight the war that they feel is warranted.

So my thought would be,

And I again,

By all means,

Not anybody to speak too much on this,

But is how much influence do you have over the other person and how much influence do they have over you?

In my case,

My teacher is so far over my head that I have zero influence on him and therefore his influence was actually a negative impact on my life and that's why I chose to end that relationship in an equitable way because I can't influence him to go in the right direction.

So I guess a question I would ask everybody if you're thinking about that and whether to cut somebody out or bring them in is what is your influence?

Can you influence them in a direction that moves them in a more compassionate way and are they damaging your ability to be compassionate towards them?

People who are in that mindset surround themselves with information to support that and people to support it.

And if you're the one person that doesn't support that without saying anything,

You're showing them there is another way to work.

Well,

In every case a whole bunch of people have said something to all of these people and they don't require it.

Let's keep this on our own response as much as we can.

I've had several people in my life who were very judgemental,

Not so much with what's going on in that case right now,

But very judgemental,

Hateful people.

And I have chosen not to associate it,

But following payment children,

I saw her speak years ago,

Right,

When we were still in her house,

And I read some of her material on compassion and she took me to a point there where I could say,

I'm not going to change them in their judgemental quality,

But I don't want to hold hatred in my heart.

That's not good for me.

And so being able to practice some of her compassionate exercises,

Compassion for myself,

And then compassion for the people in my inner circle and begin to bring that further out and further out you go from yourself in your inner circle to people that you don't share the same beliefs with.

It's hard,

But being able to just hold them with compassion rather than with hatred has been very healing for me.

So by trying to neutralize the hatred towards them and negative energy,

It helped me too.

The thing that I struggle with,

Or I guess I'm trying to get my practice into,

Is being non-judgmental with people that are an extreme thought for me.

Because then I'm judging,

And I'm just adding to the.

.

.

Yeah,

I agree.

Yeah,

That's a huge challenge.

And really what this is all about.

I think just mindful of.

.

.

Because I do it too.

And I just try to be mindful of what I'm doing and see myself doing it and just tell myself,

There I am again,

I'm doing that judgement thing.

And just create a little space from it.

Like I always say,

So you're not swirled in it,

Rather you're able to step back and look at it happening.

Which disarms it.

The issue here though,

To some extent,

Is that if the basis of the power in this society changes,

It's people like us who are the ones who are going to suffer.

Or it's minorities,

It's LGBTQ people who are going to suffer.

Anybody who's a little bit different is going to suffer.

And the kind of compassion that we offer to these people is not reciprocated.

I don't see this being reciprocated.

But it's not their compassion that saves us.

Excuse me?

It's not their compassion that saves us.

Oh no.

It's our compassion that saves us.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Oh yeah,

I see what you're saying.

Could I interject a little?

I'm hearing what you're saying.

I'd like to maybe challenge a little bit this idea that we can really place anti-vaxxers at the center of an ill in the society that we live in.

And we look a little bit more broadly at the issues that we as a species face.

I think to put it anti-vaxxers is a little,

Or is that,

You know,

We don't want to put all of that on people who have various reasons for,

You can reject what they're saying,

But it's not just like anti-vaxxers who are just stupid.

There's a broader picture of you saying that.

Yeah,

It's just a hot topic at the moment.

That's,

You know.

And there's a lot of hot topics,

Especially in the West Coast.

I've been hearing from the whole conversation.

I was feeling a little bit ill,

But I think I got enough to sort of figure out what we're talking about here.

And in my own experience,

Judgment comes from,

What is it,

A society really is just a bunch of people who see the world the same way.

In other parts of the world,

There are people who see this as non-material,

Something totally different.

When we judge people,

We say that,

Oh,

This is reality.

I've got the right one,

And you've got a wrong one.

And so you place yourself on the soil,

Like a pedestal.

And everybody else suffers the weight of you being up on that pedestal.

But there isn't one way to see it at all.

And I think letting that go,

That there is one way that's the right way,

It frees yourself to change your own worldview and not be so judgmental because you realize that everybody's right and nobody's wrong in this thing.

That's just not the way to be on it,

Especially when it comes to anti-maskers,

Because that was the way.

That's so lovely.

And I think that this reminds me of something a student of mine shared with me many years ago.

It was kind of the breakthrough moment for me.

He said,

You know,

If you,

And it was a very long post,

I'll try to truncate it,

But he said,

You know,

If you practice yoga and it makes your body more flexible,

It's great.

If you think you're better than people who don't practice yoga,

Then you've failed.

And if you meditate and you feel like you're getting a good place in your mind and doing great,

If you think it makes you better than anybody else,

You've failed.

And if you practice martial arts and you learn self-discipline and learn these things,

Great.

If you think that that makes you better than people who can't fight,

You've failed.

It's an ego trap.

So I would just think that's very important considering there are traps in all of us.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And we're being yourself.

I think it's central.

And so to speak.

I think it's essential here what we're talking about,

That my perception of all of it,

My perception,

And if I can put myself and other people to see all of these different angles,

That helps me.

But my perception of all of it,

My perception.

I have a wonderful nephew,

Just a really loving nephew,

He lives in Ashville.

And I was talking to him the other day and he's part of the Ashville town culture.

Wonderful nephew,

You know?

Not being vaccinated after all this trying to keep his body really strong with all kinds of air and all of a sudden he thinks like that.

Just doesn't believe in him.

And it was a real,

Like a light came on him.

He wasn't an angry,

Hostile,

Radical.

He was,

No,

This is what we're,

You know what I mean?

Different perception.

Not political.

It wasn't political.

Thank you,

That's a good clarification.

What was political about how he treats his body?

The younger daughter lives in a small,

Many people are related in this little tiny subdivision down in the middle of Brunswick County which is,

Well all of her neighbors just about have had Trump signs out even long after the election.

And when her family first moved there,

You know,

They felt kind of uneasy.

As they come to know these people and see them as people,

Not as Trumpers or Zen crazies or one thing,

They've come to see them as people.

I went over to walk her dog one night because we were down at the beach,

The house didn't allow pets so I drove over and let the dog out one night and the neighbor walked over and asked,

Respectfully asked,

It's pouring rain,

He comes around through the front of my headlights rather than approaching my driver window.

Goes to the far side,

He's got his son who's about 30 with him.

These two rednecks come out of the dark and say,

Respectfully asked me,

I can't remember what they said but they didn't come up to me and threaten me but I'm sure had I been tending evil to my daughter's family they would have probably cleaned my clock,

Wouldn't be surprised.

But you know,

The Trumpers,

They're in enough cases.

But they're also people,

There's a lot in it.

I'm a crazy,

Grumpy old man.

There's more than that to me.

And we have a lot of things in common.

And if I can get past seeing something in them that repels me,

That's in my head,

This has been said but I guess I'm disagreeing.

If I can get past my concept that this thing is bad,

This person has and does this thing,

Therefore they are bad,

Not necessarily the system,

Just the public.

I think that goes back to that interconnectedness even within ourselves where we're connected to a lot of things and we have a lot of commonalities in that complex.

So I think you're absolutely right,

Sam.

I think really it's the only thing that's going to save us as a culture and as a nation.

I mean I have conservative people living all around me in my small neighborhood and if you look at our yard,

Every possible liberal sign that you might have in the world is in our front yard.

And it's fine,

All of these people,

They'll come over and bring us food if somebody's sick and all of that,

It's fine.

We choose to respect one another as people who are sharing community.

It's about 12.

Is there anyone who hasn't had an opportunity to say something who might like to?

Yes.

At the risk of being excommunicated from the Zen,

Right here today.

Boy,

I feel your issues,

Cindy,

For bringing all this up.

I'm very liberal,

But I used to think,

I hope it raised pretty much the fist of pain,

Everything in moderation,

Everything's okay.

Now society just doesn't accept that everything is extreme,

One way or the other.

If I don't like the other extreme,

They're wrong.

And I got to tell you folks,

From where I sit,

There's very little that I see around me that is farther from the mainstream than Zen practice in America.

You go outside of this,

I don't know,

Is it 30,

40 acres?

This is what's different.

I think it's good.

I embrace it and I hear talk that it was so dead on or what can I do for myself is to help everywhere.

But I feel like this is out of the mainstream.

I don't like the mainstream anymore.

Either one of those big lanes,

Conservative,

Liberal,

Whatever,

Just have to do my own thing and know that maybe they're right,

I don't like to think so.

But I can't change them.

I got to love them,

Work with them,

Or what else is there,

Or what?

And the thing is,

We may not be able to change people in a way that we can see,

But we can plant seeds.

And because we don't get to see the change that we work toward doesn't mean we shouldn't work toward it.

We plant seeds,

We hope for the best.

Because what's the alternative?

I'd like to share a quick story about that.

Again,

Like I said,

In my day-to-day work,

I teach people and adults that are learners.

And we had a learner who came in basically just on a conference call,

Coming in,

Cussing out some of the people that were supporting class,

And I asked how terrible it is.

Anyway,

I went to a coaching learner and I basically said,

You have shown no compassion for anybody that's teaching you.

You're not showing any respect for anybody else in the class,

Etc.

And we go through a lot of coaching,

A lot of things that happen.

But what's interesting,

And I think this relates to the seeds,

Is this person came back to me about a year later and said,

You know,

If you hadn't had that conversation with me,

I think my entire life would have spiraled out of control.

And it brought me to where I was and I was like,

I mean,

I'm going to be honest,

At the time I don't want to fire her.

Because I think you shouldn't be acting like that.

But I took that step back and I said,

All right,

Here's what you're doing wrong.

Can you improve on it?

And she did.

And not only did she,

She's actually one of our top people.

So I think that planting the seeds,

Like you said,

You don't always see it.

I was very fortunate to see it.

But there are so many places those seeds will blossom later,

Even just little moments.

Yeah.

What a stroke of fortune for you.

Good fortune.

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One of the clearest explanations of the path I’ve heard. Thank you so much!🙏