We Used To Be Anxious

A gentle, honest conversation between two coaches who once lived with anxiety and a formal diagnosis, and no longer do. Rather than a way to manage symptoms, it offers a fresh way of seeing where anxious feelings come from.
Sharon and Louise explore how anxiety becomes a fixed label, a thing we believe we have, when no one is anxious all the time. They look at how feeling follows thought, and how the stories we attach to a sensation build it up, like logs on a fire.
You will hear why uncomfortable feelings are part of being human rather than a fault to fix, and how they can be a quiet signal to slow down and come back to the present. There is nothing to do and nothing to get right. A reassuring chat for anyone who has come to feel frightened of their own feelings.
Grounded in the Three Principles of Sydney Banks.

Transcript

Good evening, Everybody. So I'm here with Sharon and we're talking about anxiety. The reason we chose this topic is because we both have had anxiety in the past with a diagnosis. So, You know, Fairly serious stuff. And we decided to talk about that because we feel that we're not anxious anymore. So yeah, So. So we've titled this, We used to be anxious. Because we did, Didn't we? Yes. And like you said, We had, We both had formal diagnosis. And I suppose I shouldn't really. Be flippant about that because it's pretty miserable when you're living with anxiety. But. . . It's kind of hard to look at it seriously now. It is. Yes, I do. And I really don't want to take anything away from people who are struggling, But. . . Just even saying I have anxiety doesn't make sense to me anymore. Not anymore, No. No. It's a massive label that's bandied about. What makes me angry is that it's a label that's given to young people very regularly. I worked with a a young lady in a senior school and she I think was being tested potentially for ADHD and her GP told her, If you have ADHD with girls they usually have anxiety as well. So she said, So I'm anxious. I said, Are you? Well, That's what the GP said. I was horrified by that. Yeah, I mean, I've had a similar thing working with young people, Really young, Because I worked with the iHeart program in schools in the curriculum and we were working with years five and six. So we're talking I don't know, Nine, 10. Even younger actually because I have worked with some eight-year-olds and I had a little girl. Her mum contacted me because she was really worried and her mum said my daughter has anxiety. Yeah. So she was reinforcing it obviously because that's what she'd been told. I worked with a little girl and she said you know she really believed she had A thing. Yes. You know, It was it was a thing. Yes. Society, A thing. And we talked about that and I said, So what does it look like? You know this this thing and yes when you ask somebody that it's kind of hard to to describe it. Physical symptoms, She would feel sick, And it was about going to school, And she would actually be sick too some days, She would get so worked up, You know, So you can kind of understand. Why that looks like a thing. Yes, Yes. But, I mean, We worked through it and as we're going to talk about, And eventually I think, Honestly, I'm not sure that she understood exactly what I was talking about. But she did stop having problems and started going to school. Wow, Yeah, Right, Right. It's so interesting, Isn't it, This conversation? Just talking with someone, It's almost. . . There's not really an application, But there is an implication of something. That makes sense when you hear it, When someone's talking to you, That kind of lands and makes sense, Even if you can't articulate it. Yes, And clearly something landed for her, That it changed everything. So with obviously anxiety, There are those physiological issues, Which are linked to the fight, Flight, Freeze. We are supposed to have that, We're built to have that. It's just that we're not built to have it 24 seven. And that's the thing. That when people are told they are anxious and it seems like a thing, What they can't see is that they're not anxious all the time. Unless they think about it so much that then it is a 24-7 thing, Which is really sad because it doesn't need to be like that. And the physiological part of it is really horrible. It's scary. You know, You think, Am I having a heart attack? You know, You don't know what's going on in your body. Dry mouth, You know, People can literally shake. Absolutely, People can be terrified by it. So, And I think when people are very, Very anxious, They almost can't hear what other people are saying to them about it. Do you find? Yeah, Well, That was my experience, Actually, Because I was already diagnosed with clinical depression. And I'd been on medication for a long time. And I had a particularly bad patch and I was having some extra help, Kind of counselling. And I remember. . . I remember talking to lovely lady about you know what was going on for me and I said I was talking about how I woke up every morning. In this. Anxiety, Anxious, I didn't actually use that word. I said, I wake up in the morning and I'm terrified, Like already. And we were talking about it and she suddenly went, Oh my goodness, You've got. . . Anxiety. In hope. And I was like, Oh, Okay. But those. . . That was, It was some time ago, But that's when I got my general anxiety disorder. Diagnosis. So I was like, Oh, Okay, So I'm not only am I clinically depressed, I also have this, You know, It's an added. Yes. So, Of course, And like you say, It was very, You know, It was a physical feeling. And So I. Did what was. Suggested and took some more meds to be honest and carried them around. For decades in my handbag. Yeah. Know, Like a security thing. So that if I thought I might have an attack that I could take, You know, What it was that they prescribed kind of thing. Wow. And it really did seem like a thing. Yeah. And did they help? Did they actually help? They zoned me out. I mean, It was, It was, Well, I don't want to talk about drugs and things, But yeah, They, They, They just kind of, You know, Sort me out really yeah and i wasn't supposed to drive or anything when i took them you know wow And that kind of carried on for years and I never. . . Something you just said. Nobody ever pointed out to me that I wasn't anxious all the time. Nobody. Nobody. No. I came across this understanding and the three principles. Yes, Because I was going to ask you when you say if we roll back a bit and you said that you have had anxiety in the morning and that you were terrified before the day even started. What were you terrified of? Can you remember? No. Was it specific things or. . . ? Yes, It was things, But it was very generalised. It was the future. It was being alone. It was not having money, You know, All kind of what ifs. Yes. And I had very, I didn't put the two together, But I didn't sleep well either. So. . . And of course our system doesn't shut down at night, Does it? No. It kind of keeps going. So yeah. I think that flavor was just there, You know, When I say flavor, I mean, The kind of quality of my thinking was all around that. But when I woke up. . . It would be there as I was waking. And then what would happen? I would attach it to a thing. Yes. So I would think, Oh my God, I'm feeling anxious because this might happen or that's going to happen or. . . Yeah. Or that happened last week and I'm in trouble for it. You know, I would attach, Make meaning of it. Yes, Yes. And then I would believe. The story I made up about the attachment, You know what I detached it to if that makes sense. So, I would then. Get more anxious. Yeah. I thought my anxiety was giving me information about the thing I'd attached it to. And you thought it was true. Yeah, So if I was. . . Like if I was, I don't know, If I had something. You know, Let's say I had an interview or something or something in the future, You know, Something that was meant to be a big deal. I would then wake up feeling anxious and I'd think, Oh, God. It means that I'm going to do badly. At the interview or, You know, Why am I going for this? I'm an idiot, You know, I shouldn't be doing it or something like that. So I want to attach all this meaning to the anxiety, Which would be like, It's like putting logs on a fire, An anxious fire. Yes, And it builds and builds. And you just think, The more anxious you got, The more true the story you've attached to it is. Yeah, That's crazy because Like you say. Now that we've learnt this. . . Way of looking at how the mind works, We can see that it's normal, Completely normal to be anxious, Especially about, I don't know, A job interview or something, And that we are projecting into the future. We don't know what's going to happen. At all. It's a complete guess. We're making it up. Yeah, But that's normal. And the other thing, I mean the thing that. . . The thing that changed everything for me was when I understood the system, How you've. You know, Thinking, Whatever, If you think anxious thoughts, Will feel anxious. Yeah. And that I. . . I think I thought it was the other way around. Yeah. That the feeling came first and then I'd think about the feeling. Right, Yeah. I think most people think that. In fact, I was talking to somebody literally a couple of days ago who was completely gobsmacked when I said, No, Actually, It's the other way around. You know? Yeah. And I remember like, Oh. And then it makes complete sense because. . . Like if you asked me to, I could make myself cry now. I could make myself feel really sad by thinking about something in my life that was sad, Like losing my mum, Let's say. Yes. I could go back there in my mind and I could dig up memories of everything. And I could it would make me feel sad, Wouldn't it? Yeah, Yeah, Absolutely. And we know that. Yes. We do know that, I think. Yeah, We do know that. But nobody's really pointed at it and going, Can you not see that's what's happening? Yeah, That's what's happening for the future as well. Yeah, So we can imagine something in the future that is scary. Yeah. And start thinking. Insecure thoughts about it and start feeling really insecure. Yeah, Absolutely. And when you see how that. Works. For me anyway, It was, And also that, Um. . . The thoughts keep coming, Don't they? They come and they go and they go, It's just like, You know, It's like a. . . Yes, Conveyor belt. But sometimes we're not. We're not aware. Of what's rumbling along underneath. Although we even have little sayings, Like people will say, Oh, I'm sorry I'm in such a mood. I've got a lot on my mind. We say that. Yes, We do, Yeah. We don't. Really understand that that's true. You know, And you can have something, Can't you, On your mind? That you're not actively. . . Consciously thinking about, You know, You're not, But it's just, You're not letting it go. So, Or it keeps coming back and it keeps coming back. And it kind of. . . Flavours everything else. Yes. And what's interesting is, So for example, My son was going to visit some friends or new friends, Meet some new people this morning. And he was saying, I feel so nervous. And he was eating and he said, I feel sick. I feel so nervous. And we've often had these conversations where, Isn't it interesting that Is it, Is it nervous? Is it? Or is it excitement? They're quite similar, Really. And I think if you let your thoughts run away with you into it's anxious, You really could say, Oh, These are the symptoms of anxiety. And I feel sick, I feel nauseous, I can't eat, I feel fidgety. You know, You could sort of almost build that up into a big anxiety thing where actually you're kind of a bit excited. Yeah and the thing is, Again, The label we put on the sensation, Because that's what it is, A feeling is a sensation in your body, Isn't it? Yes. So we then label it. Anxiety or excitement, Depending on the story we've attached to it. Yes. And of course, Some feelings we want to have, Excitement, And some feelings, Anxiety, We don't want to have because they're labelled bad and good. But what if? What if they're all neutral and there's no good or bad? Yeah. Because actually what it's saying is I'm not balanced, I'm unbalanced because I'm not being Yeah, Like you say, Neutral, Because I've sort of come away from myself, Which is calm, Collected, Confident, All those innate things that everybody has. We're kind of veering away from that. And so actually it's a sign to say, Okay, Come back to center. Yeah. And that's what's so amazing is We're actually really perfectly designed to feel all those feelings. Feelings can't really hurt you in a physical sense. I know it's not nice if you're throwing up and having a panic attack all that, But You know, A feeling can't really hurt you. You're, The design is. Just so amazing we can feel them and then they're like the alarm going off going bleep bleep, You know, You're off track. Yeah, You're off track. Yeah, Absolutely. So the more extreme feeling and that And that's positive feelings too. It's not just good, Bad, Negative. Any extreme feelings are really just the design. It's like a little light going off on the dashboard, You know, With a bleeper. Yeah. Going, Oi! Don't trust what you're thinking because it's probably taking you down a, You know. My story I use, I haven't got one of these because my car's not very new, But you know like in modern cars have a reversing alarm. Yes you know and you're parallel parking and you're backing in and you're getting close to that car and it's It gets louder, Doesn't it? It gets more intense and faster and it's like bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep. And I say to people, When you hear that, What do you do? And most people say, Well, I slow down or I stop. And I'm like, Yeah. Exactly, Because if you carry on, You're just going to. . . Hit the wall, You know. Yeah. And that's what our system is doing. And it's just saying, Hey, Whoa. Yeah. Slow down a minute. Slow down. Press pause. Yeah, Press pause, Exactly. Yeah, That's it, Yeah. Yeah, And anxiety is. . . Just the same as it's just We've turned it into a. . . We've turned it into a thing. Yeah, You know, But you can't. You can't go to your local. . . Shop and buy it, You know. I'd like some anxiety pills. Yeah, That's interesting. I did a an audio recording on Insight Timer. Called The Art of Anxiety, Where I sort of put three scenarios in there, Teaching people how to become anxious. And again, That sounds very flippant, But it's true. It's, You know, You start from nothing and you have a thought, Then you have another thought, And then you entertain those and you build them up and you build them up. And you have created anxiety. It's incredible, Incredible how it works. And if you can just see that, Oh yeah, I'm creating that. It takes a big load off really. And it is difficult for people that are very very very anxious and have lots of physiological symptoms and it's scary really people are frightened and then their world again becomes smaller and smaller because they don't want to do anything that will trigger this anxiety or that anxiety. Well, You become anxious about being anxious. Yeah, You do. Yeah. It just it just yeah your world just shrinks doesn't it and yes yeah you're completely vicious cycle yeah Yeah, And you know, For someone just like us standing here or sitting here rather talking and saying, You know, All you've got to do is press pause. Might sound. You know it might sound a bit hard to take for some people and I get that and I don't You know, I don't. Mean it to sound. . . Lipids or anything but And it takes a while too. Yeah. But when you see something new like this. . . What is so. . . Incredible. As well about our incredible human design. Is that even without completely understanding what's going on, When you see something new about it, Your natural. . . Kind of essential. Okay nature, The human spirit, It's just, It's just waiting to burst through, Isn't it? It's like the sun just waiting to come through the clouds. Exactly. Yeah it's it's just there ready yeah and i think the biggest help If I had to give a tip. The biggest thing I would say helped me was noticing that I wasn't anxious all the time. Yes, Yeah. And focusing on that. That's it. Yeah, That's huge. Yes. You know, And then thinking, Hang on a minute. Yeah. Because everybody has it. I mean, I visit people in the community and they list anxiety as one of the medical conditions they have. But obviously within their own home. There's no sign of it whatsoever. Because obviously they are comfortable in their own home. But actually, If you remove that person and put them in a shop. . . For example. It's the same person. Really, Nothing inside has changed. It's just that you're in a different place. Place or circumstance so actually nothing has changed and that's sort of difficult for people to see that is wherever I am. That's, You know, Here we are. I'm just me. I haven't got it but I saw something today in fact I shared it with a client today. Often, I won't say always because I'm not sure, But very often if you're feeling anxious it's because your thinking has gone to the future. Yes. If you're feeling depressed it's because your thinking has gone to the past. Past, Yeah, I've heard that. There's a saying somewhere, And I know for me, I did both of those things, Hence the depression, The diagnosis, And the anxiety was, You know, I got to the point where I was convinced that I was going to die alone, Penniless, Under a motorway bridge or something. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, That's where your mind had taken you, Yes. Because I wasn't present. I wasn't, You know, And I have a note above my computer I'm going to unpin it because I can pin it back. Because I need reminding sometimes. You probably can't read. Can you read that? Yeah, It's not happening now. Yeah. Yeah, Because we do allow our mind to kind of, It goes out of our, You know, Takes us away from our body, We can be present in physical, But we're over there and horses have taught me that because horses do the same. Yeah, I mean, They get stressed because they're thinking about, You know, If you've taken them away from the herd and their mind is with the herd. Okay. So they're not present, They're not in their body, And you have to kind of bring them, You have to bring them back. Wow. And then you can connect, You can't connect with them when they're thinking about, You know, Running back to the yard, To the stable, Because you've taken them for a ride on their own. Yeah. It's you know that press pause button that's all that does is it brings you back to now you know yeah yeah yeah exactly uh yeah exactly and wherever you are you have now yeah whatever you're doing you have now yeah exactly yeah yeah that's brilliant And it's interesting because you had the morning anxiety thing. Um I would maybe wake up and think, Oh, I don't want to go to work. But it wasn't a huge thing. Mine is more of a nighttime thing, Anxiety. I'm projecting into the future. But I know I'm doing it now. Now I can see that I'm doing it and it will be OK. Because I know that I've brought my boys up. They're sensible. Their own wisdom. So although I'm worrying about this might happen, Or that might happen, Or. . . I'm just making that up. I don't know what's going to happen. And I think we've brought them up to be, You know, They can make their own decisions and they do have their own wisdom. Yeah, No, I mean. . . I forgot what I was going to say now. Oh, I hate it when that happens. Oh, I know what I was going to say about waking up in the mornings. I. . . I do sometimes wake up in the morning with that feeling. A remnant of that feeling that I remember that kind of anxiety, You know, That feeling in my in me and I'm like, Oh, But the difference now is I'm like, I wonder what that's about. Yeah, Yeah. That's an old. . . Because I don't actually know what it's about and it's probably I've been dreaming about something or. . . Maybe, Yeah. I don't know. The difference now is that I'm just a bit curious about it. Whereas years ago, I would have gone, Oh my God, Oh, Oh, It's back. Logs on the anxiety fire, It would be roaring. I had times where I worked myself up into a complete, Kind of unable to, You know, Come out under the duvet. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. And it was horrible. It was really horrible. Yeah, Yeah. But I mean, I can honestly say that I haven't heard that since then. Yeah, I think, Yes, I can see, Like you just said, I can see now that it's it's not real and I am doing it myself and I don't need to do that. And a lot of time I recognise it's like a habitual thing, Like an old pattern that I used to do. So it's definitely changed. I won't say it's completely gone away, But it's like a much, Much, Much lesser degree than I ever had before. And so now I'm not scared of it because I just think, That's rubbish. Okay, I might be thinking about something in the future, But actually I'm gonna park that because I can talk to whoever about it. I don't need to worry about it now. And the beauty, I mean. There's no getting away. From the fact that today, You know, Times are complicated. There's a lot of things going on for people. People are juggling you know, All sorts of challenges. Yes. It's, You know, Cost of living, All these things that are constantly, You know, Just put the news on and you you know, Let's go under the duvet, Kind of. Yeah. So there is a lot and I can see why people, You know, Why it looks like there's a lot to be anxious about. Yes. The thing is though, When that fire's raging, That anxiety, When you've built that up so much. You're less Uhhh. . . Able to deal with challenges that come along. Clarity, You've got no space in your head for, You know, For your wisdom or for new thought or for new ideas, You're so consumed by that, You know, That thinking, That anxious thought storm that there's no room for anything else. And it creates problems that aren't there. I think it's really interesting that. . . A lot of anxious people that I've spoken to, I ask them, You know, How do you relax? And a lot of time they say, Well, I don't, I can't, I can't relax. And I say, Have you tried music? Have you tried? Listening to. . . Yeah, I've tried that. They're. . . Quite determined in their, Some people are quite determined. In their being anxious. And this sounds, I don't know if this sounds weird. Sometimes people get you know that that label of anxiety and then they always use it like a an armour. And actually they invite it to stay. And then they use it, And this is why I can't do this, This is why I can't do that, There's no point in me trying that, You know, They almost use it to bat off like everything, So it's, Although with obviously the three principles there is not a doing, It's a more of a releasing, Sometimes I think we're very anxious people. We do have to sort of encourage a doing, Which is. . . Try to come up with a plan where. You're not watching the news. You're not, You know. . . Sort of having people around you that you might feel are a bit toxic or, You know, Having those sorts of conversations, Yeah, That make you feel anxious. Perhaps don't invite them around as much. And particularly the worst time to watch the news is just before you go to bed. Oh yes. Yeah you know the 10 o'clock or yeah if you want to catch up then do it first thing in the morning and then get on with the day because you will Yeah. You know. It goes out of your mind because you've got your own life to live. Late night news and then go to bed with all that on your mind. It's not helpful, Is it? Yeah. I don't watch the news. I think if I need to find out about something, I'll look it up. But I just feel that it's so negative that it keeps people anxious. And so it's almost like there's an agenda to do that. And I'm not interested in that, So I don't watch it. If there's something that is going to affect my job or my family or the way we live, Then yes, I'll sort of look into that. But actually, I don't need to watch all the other. . . It's just noise. I don't need that noise in my head. It just creates more anxious thinking, I think. I think. I think. Yes. And no matter how hard we try, We can't stop doing that. No, No, We can't. You can't stop your thoughts, But you can let them go. And you can, Like I say, Not encourage things around you that are going to make it worse. Just avoid those things, Even if it's one day a week. I mean, It must be very tempting, Mustn't it? I know what you mean about people kind of. . . Taking it on as an armor and kind of using it to then protect them from being able to do anything. But then, You know, It's just your comfort zone reduces to nothing. It does, Yeah. If I said to you, OK, I understand that you're anxious, OK, However, We're going to be putting on a big family party. And everybody's going to be there. It'll be fantastic. You'll see like. . . Cousins you haven't seen for years, It'll be absolutely brilliant. Somebody might go to that and really enjoy it. And then perhaps you can help them to see that, You see, You're not anxious all the time. Because you've done that thing which is not in your comfort zone but actually really enjoyed it. Could you maybe see yourself do other things that you've stopped doing, You know? Hmm. I wonder if we've been helpful. I wonder if we've been helpful. I hope we have. We've had a good old chatter about it. What's a really nice way of rounding it up? Would be helpful to anyone listening. I think that, Like we've said before with other subjects, If you could just notice As soon as you start to feel anxious, Just notice that you are feeling anxious and that, I wonder what's made me think that, You know, What thoughts am I having? I mean, We may not notice what thoughts we've had, But if we just notice that we're feeling anxious and anxious, Recognize that that's my body's way of giving me a signal and and it's okay it's okay to have that signal and it's okay to have those feelings and nervousness and anxiety it's actually how we're built so it's okay and we can live with it and let go of the thoughts that are coming. What would you say? Well, Mine's the other side of the coin, I think, Which is what I said earlier, Is notice that you're not anxious all the time. Yes. Yeah. And focus on that. You know. Because and also the other little thing just seeing as that's almost the same as what you said except kind of the flip side is to realize that You know, A feeling, It can't really hurt you. It's just a sensation. And here's another one that came to me that I went, Oh yeah. EMotion somebody said to me the first time I heard someone say yeah emotion is E for energy Moving. Yes so it's energy in motion moving through your body it's just a sensation yes maybe excitement and anxiety and all the labels that we stick on this energy moving. Yeah. You know the. . . It's very close, The feeling. It is very close, Yeah. And it's okay and it will pass. Yeah. It's okay not to be afraid of being anxious. Okay. Lovely. Yay. Lovely. We would love. Wouldn't we? We'd love some feedback. We would. We would love some questions. Yeah confusions even or even if you think we're talking a load of old. . . Baloney. We'd like to know that too, Wouldn't we? We would, Yes. So we're open to whatever you want to throw at us. We are, Yes. Whether it's about anxiety or something that's coming along that you're feeling, You know, Emotion about. We'd love to have a look and maybe see if we can shine a light on something. So yeah, So that's a shout out from me and a shout out from Louise. That's right. We need a signing off like the two Ronnies. It's goodbye from me. It's goodbye from me. Yes, We do. Let's see if we can put you out of your agony. Yes, That would be good. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next week. Thank you. Bye.