Sadhguru On 'Youth and Truth:' Full Talk At IIM Ahmedabad

Yogi, mystic and visionary, Sadhguru is a spiritual master with a difference. His work covers vitally relevant topics from our times, in which, on September 29, Sadhguru spoke at IIM Ahmedabad, as part of the Youth and Truth movement. What follows in this podcast, is the full talk he gave, and
a vibrant Q & A session where Sadhguru answers students' questions on a wide range of concepts. This talk is both honest and inspiring, allowing us to gain an insightful perspective on what it means to live fully and how to best achieve such.

Transcript

Today we have with us a man who needs no introduction,

As evident by the crowd.

So we'll dive right into the questions.

Shall I say something before?

Sure,

Go ahead.

Well,

The question is definitely there in a lot of people's mind,

Why a moment like this?

How this came about?

In the last thirty-six years that I've been active with people,

There's one constant refrain from people.

Thousands of people have asked me the same question.

That is,

Sadhguru,

When I was twenty,

Where the hell were you?

You came when I'm sixty.

If you came when I was twenty,

I would have done this,

That and something else.

I've been hearing this from so many people continuously.

So we thought we will step out and talk to people who are below twenty-five years of age.

And that's why Youth and Truth.

And the fundamental of this is… See,

What we call as life.

This life,

You may have so many ideas about it,

So many emotions and thoughts about it,

But essentially this life is a certain combination of time and energy.

We have a certain amount of time and a certain amount of energy.

Time is rolling away for all of us.

If you sit here,

It rolls,

If you do something,

It rolls,

If you sleep,

It rolls,

If you're awake,

It rolls.

Whether in wakefulness or sleep,

In work or laziness,

Whichever way,

In dynamism or lethargy,

Time is rolling for everybody.

In Tamil,

There's… the term that is used for death is kaalamaitanga.

It means his time got over.

Such an appropriate description.

After all,

That's all that happened,

Time got over.

So time is getting over for all of us.

As we sit here,

It's not the clock which is ticking,

It is our life which is ticking away.

You cannot control it,

You can't slow it down,

You can't roll it back,

No choice about this.

It rolls forward for all of us,

No matter what we do or we don't do.

But energy is something we can manage.

When we talk about energy,

This segment of life that we refer to as youth,

When you're in this segment of life,

Your energy is at its highest exuberance.

Most youth do not understand this.

They think they're going to be like this for always.

You just have to pay attention to the old people,

They were not born like this.

They were also youth.

Slowly,

You know,

Volume gets little down,

Not me.

Otherwise,

Slowly the intensity of energy volume gets lower and lower.

If you just observe how they sit and stand and walk,

You must know you're going to get there,

Very fast actually.

So,

When your energies are at their peak,

If only if you brought little more clarity and balance into your system,

Well,

This energy could work for you in a miraculous way.

This exuberant energy can do wonders in human life or it can cause disasters in human life.

The same enthusiasm and energy has taken people's lives.

I'm saying this because I grew up in sixties and seventies.

By the time they were thirty-five,

At least twelve for sure,

Other two I think they also went by that way.

Twelve to fourteen people that I knew and who were dear to me,

They all died before they're thirty-five years of age.

Simply somebody overdosed,

Somebody drank themselves to death,

Somebody killed themselves on the motorcycles,

Somebody fell off the rocks,

All kinds of things.

It is the same exuberant energy which got them into these things.

The same exuberant energy,

If it had little more balance and clarity,

They could have done wonders.

But unfortunately this happened.

It's not only in terms of death,

It happens in so many different ways.

Disaster is not always in the form of death.

Life didn't take off,

That itself is a disaster.

So when you look at this,

See every human being,

Every individual has an innate genius within them.

The question is only,

Will they find an appropriate ambience within themselves and around themselves to unfold their genius?

This unfortunately in this world does not even happen to one percent of the population.

This is my estimate.

In your institution if it is more you must tell me.

But generally in the larger population not even one percent of humanity manages to unfold their genius,

Simply because concerns of earning a living,

Survival,

Some nonsense takes them up,

They fall in love.

Something happens.

Either outside situations don't cooperate or inside situations don't cooperate.

So what I'm looking at is,

If only if we can increase this percentage.

Let's say in this generation from one percent to ten percent,

We will have a phenomenal world.

Because you cannot create a great world or a great nation or a great society,

You can only create great human beings.

If you create great human beings,

Great societies and nations and world will happen.

It's a consequence.

We cannot create the consequence,

But the source of this is human genius must unfold.

Only then you will find human beings functioning at a level well beyond what we normally consider as normal.

It should become normal.

It's normal for a flowering plant to blossom.

Similarly,

It must be normal for a human being to unfold and blossom their genius,

Because it's innate.

It is only looking for an atmosphere where it is possible to do that.

Can we create that in the society?

Maybe it's a long way off,

But can we at least create it within ourselves?

That if you're willing is possible now in this generation.

That's why I'm here with you.

Let's see what we can do.

Participants – Applause That in essence answers the first question which we had planned for you.

So we'll actually move on.

But what we have tried to do is we have tried to… So we are representative of the student community and we have taken their questions and actually tried to divide them in themes.

And several themes have cropped up and we will proceed theme-wise during this conversation.

The first theme that cropped up was about ethics and morality.

And even though this wasn't the exact formulation of the problem,

There were versions of this.

And the version was that if Sadhguru could go back into the past,

Not because of yogic powers,

But if there was a time machine,

And with foresight,

With knowledge about what happened during the World War II,

Would Sadhguru kill baby Hitler is the first question that cropped up.

Participants – Applause Would I kill the baby Hitler?

Participants – Knowing that six million Jews could be saved.

Sadhguru – See,

Adolf Hitler is a consequence,

He's not the cause of World War II.

In the sense,

There has been centuries of hatred about the Jewish people.

It's not… it did not suddenly crop up because of Adolf Hitler.

Well,

He used it politically to do all kinds of things,

That's a different matter.

But this hatred has been endemic in the population,

Not for one or two years,

For literally eighteen centuries.

It's been alive.

Now,

Adolf Hitler became a representative of that hatred and he consolidated that hatred,

Organized it in such a way that it became a mega disaster.

But the disaster has been unfolding for a long time.

Forever people have been accusing Jews of being a Jesus killer and wanting to get them.

In so many ways they've been persecuted,

Not in one way.

Every generation has small-scale persecutions happening in various societies across the… that part of the world at least,

Not here.

So,

When Adolf Hitler came,

He saw what you're accusing of Adolf Hitler is competence.

Everybody had the same hatred.

He organized his hatred into a very competent,

Results-oriented thing.

Any number of human beings have come who are as much tyrannical as Adolf Hitler.

Fortunately,

They were not as competent.

I don't know if he studied in IIM.

Because his organizing skills are extraordinary.

You… you have to look at that.

If only if he had organized this,

Not against a particular community,

But for the well-being of the world,

What a fantastic organizer he is.

So,

His competence is what we're talking about.

Hatred was there in the society.

He organized it and made it into an end result of a disastrous kind.

See,

In every generation there are tyrants.

Fortunately,

They're important.

Fortunately,

They're everywhere.

Don't think they're not there.

Every day I'm meeting thousands of people.

You should see what kind of mindsets people have.

How much endemic hatred they have for somebody that they do not even know,

Including me.

People who have never met me,

People who have not had a word with me,

They have so much hatred.

Say,

What's the problem,

You've not even seen me yet.

But no.

So,

This endemic hatred is bred in the society in the form of religion,

In our society,

In the form of caste,

Creed,

Ideologies.

See,

Everybody is focused on Adolf Hitler.

I'm not trying to belittle what he did.

He is one man… So many people cause pain to each other,

But he is one man who organized human pain like nobody else.

He made a machine out of it.

In a real organized way,

Like an industry.

He did not do killing just for killing sake,

He made a killing industry,

You know.

Proper industry.

Actually,

They set up factories of death.

So,

Never before,

Nobody organized it.

But don't ever think nobody had those intentions,

Nobody had those same emotions,

They had.

But this man organized,

So would you kill the baby Hitler?

No,

It wouldn't help because another guy maybe with competence would have come up.

You never know.

So,

What we need to work at is,

We need to work at,

As I was telling you,

A culture of peace.

This is important.

We never worked at culture of peace.

Only when it explodes in our face,

We want it solved.

Otherwise,

We're just going about our business.

The way we are driving on the street is violent,

All right?

It's not fast.

It's just violent.

I wish they were driving fast.

If they were skilled,

They would be driving fast.

They're unskilled and they're violent drivers.

Violence means you… you don't mind if somebody gets hurt,

Isn't it?

Hello?

Violence need not necessarily mean I'm going to throw a projectile at you.

I don't care if you get hurt.

This is violence,

Isn't it?

So,

This is all over the place.

We need to see… culture is not something that you can build overnight.

Slogans you can build overnight.

You can do anti-demonstrations overnight.

You cannot build a culture overnight.

It takes a lifetime of dedication to bring that about.

Nobody has shown the dedication.

Everybody wants immediate solution.

When something explodes,

Everybody will scream.

Once it's over,

They go about their business.

So,

It is very important.

I want you to understand,

Adult Hitler's can be born just about anywhere,

Just about anywhere.

Because the culture of disliking and hating other people who are not like you is so rooted in the society.

It's just a question of,

He must do an MBA here.

I'm giving compliments to the institution,

It's not… I completely get it,

But the main issue over here is that you tackle the root causes rather than manifestations of the root causes.

Yes.

Exactly,

So… Consequences cannot be dealt with.

It is a process we need to address.

So,

The youth of today have a bit of confusion about the whole spirituality.

We believe that the basic tenets of humanity,

Like justice,

Equality,

Fraternity,

Should be enough to be a better human being.

And if you're a better human being and if you're happy by yourself,

Does there… is there really a room for spirituality?

Please repeat those three values.

Justice,

Equality and fraternity.

Justice,

Equality and fraternity.

I want you to understand this.

These are wonderful thoughts,

But with horrible results on this planet.

Because people who talked about this,

Well,

Marx spoke about it,

Engel spoke about it,

Joseph Stalin spoke about it,

But Joseph Stalin killed three times more than Adolf Hitler.

Am I correct on the number or you're disputing the number?

I'm not disputing the number but there is a fallacy in this argument.

We will come to that.

I'm saying you can carry any number of values,

But you will see people will learn to subvert their own values in so many ways depending upon how much pressure is put upon them.

So,

Instead of morality,

Instead of this kind of moral structures,

It is better that we fall back on our humanity which is more reliable and always there.

If you want to fall back on humanity,

If you'll give me a couple of minutes,

Okay?

See,

What is it that is setting us apart?

Why is it I must think that there must be fraternity?

Because first of all,

I think you and me are separate.

Now I'm trying to build brotherhood,

Isn't it so?

First of all,

I think the way you are is whatever.

Now I'm trying to include you.

But how did you come to this?

You have come to this simply with little bit of accumulated information in your mind,

The data that you carry which is your thought process.

Your entire thought process is coming from limited data.

Now this data is the feed for your intellect.

Because you understand somewhere,

Maybe not articulated in your own mind,

But you fundamentally understand the nature of your intellect is it will always make you and others separate because that is the nature of the intellect.

Only because intellect is functioning,

You have a discriminatory mind that you can discriminate,

That is him,

This is me.

Otherwise you won't be able to discriminate.

The other dimensions of intelligence which is in human being are all unifying in nature.

Instead of going into those dimensions of intelligence and functioning,

You are using your intellect.

If I ask you a simple question,

Would you like your intellect to be sharp or blunt?

You must choose,

I'll… I'm going to bless you right now.

You want it sharp because intellect is a cutting instrument.

So you use a knife to put people together.

You will leave it in tatters,

Believe me.

You use a knife to cut things,

That's fine.

To handle material aspects of life,

You use a knife because you want distinction.

When you handle people,

If you use a knife,

Maybe with the best intention,

You will still cause enormous damage.

This is the unfortunate manifestation of the principle of communism.

There is no more compassionate expression of humanity than communism,

You understand?

You can… you can tell.

There is actually in philosophy,

There is no more compassionate expression because everybody according to their need,

Not according to their greed is a fantastic idea.

But wherever they tried to implement it,

What happened was enormous violence simply because it's an intellectual idea.

And the intellect can only cut.

If you try to shoe with a knife,

Everything becomes tatters.

This has happened repeatedly again and again.

But there's another dimension of intelligence within you.

I will skip.

In yoga,

We look at human intelligence as sixteen parts.

I will not go into it.

The last part of intelligence is referred to as chitta.

What this means is,

An intelligence without an iota of memory in it.

Why is this important is,

See,

You are who you are and I am who I am only because of the memory that you contain within you,

Isn't it?

You are separate,

I am separate,

How?

That is one silo of memory,

This is another silo of memory.

When I say memory,

It's not just what you remember and don't remember.

There is evolutionary memory,

There is genetic memory,

There is karmic memory,

There is varieties of memory.

The very way you sit and stand is because of your memory,

Yes?

The very way the shape of your nose is,

The tone of your skin,

Everything is memory.

So what you call as myself is a product of a huge amount of memory.

Memory allows you to do many things in the world,

But at the same time,

Memory is also my boundary.

This is my friend,

This is somebody I do not know,

How?

Because I remember this one,

I don't remember this one.

It's memory which decides who is mine and who is not mine,

What is mine and what is not mine.

So there is an intelligence within you which is beyond memory.

If only if you dip into that dimension of intelligence,

In your experience,

All boundaries have disappeared.

In the sense,

If you sit here right now in this hall,

And even for one moment,

Even for one single moment,

If you experienced all these people,

Just as the way you experienced the ten fingers of your hand as a part of yourself,

After that,

Do I have to tell you morality,

Fraternity,

Equality,

This,

That?

When you see somebody as a part of yourself,

When you have known somebody as a part of yourself,

There is no need for any principle or any morality.

This is what spiritual process means.

Spiritual process means you begin to experience something beyond your physical nature.

Why this is important is,

Physical nature can only happen in defined boundaries.

Without a defined boundary,

There is no physical process,

Isn't it?

This is my body and that is your body.

How come?

Because this is a boundary.

Now this is my mind and that's your mind,

Because there is a boundary.

But there is a dimension of intelligence which has no memory.

If you enter that dimension,

You will see that there is no memory because there is no memory,

But still you are alert and alive.

Because of that,

There is no boundaries.

This can be explained in so many ways.

See,

If you do something very intense,

If you do like this and just hold it like this,

You can… Shall we experiment?

Just for twenty seconds,

Vigorously rub your hands together with your eyes closed.

Hold it about three inches away from each other.

Is there something happening between your two hands?

Oh,

You didn't try that.

You don't believe in experimentation.

Okay.

That's fine.

Questioner 1 – Definitely tried it.

Sadhguru – Did you?

Did you see something between your hands?

There is a certain energy.

Why I'm saying this is,

Right now your definition of this is me and that is you has come like this.

It is… See,

How do you know?

Can we do another experiment?

Are you okay?

Your right hand,

Let's touch your left hand.

Is that you?

Yes?

Yes.

Touch the chair on which you're sitting.

Is that you?

How do you know this?

What tells you this is me and this is not me?

No,

No,

No,

No.

There is sensation here.

There's no sensation here,

Isn't it?

Essentially,

It is the boundaries of sensation which tells you what is me and what is not me.

What spiritual process means is,

You get your life energies into such an exuberance that your sensory body expands.

If your sensory body expands,

Everything within the boundaries of your sensation,

You experience it as myself.

Right now,

This water and this tumbler is definitely not you,

But if you drink it,

It becomes you.

Isn't it?

This many kilograms,

How did it come?

Something that was outside,

Now is within the boundaries of your sensation.

Now,

If all these people are within the boundaries of your sensation,

Even for a moment,

If you actually experience them as a part of myself,

After that,

Do you need morality?

So,

I guess the main part was that the question I think got lost in translation,

Because in essence,

You guys were both talking about the same things.

I thought you were speaking… he was speaking in English,

Was he?

True,

But translation is not always just language,

It's also intent.

Okay.

He also implied that if people start looking at other people,

Not as other people,

But as humans… But how will you do it?

According to me,

The knowledge that we are all humans is essential to us.

See,

It is between human beings that this problem happens.

We all know we are humans.

If you were a tiger,

I wouldn't fight with you.

In essence… Again,

In essence,

We are saying literally the same thing,

We are just coming from different fronts.

We are all humans.

The fact that certain people have not acknowledged that we are humans… No,

No,

No.

…is the cause of these problems.

I don't think they have not acknowledged,

They have acknowledged.

They have said that we are different kinds of humans.

Not really.

Within a family,

There's a lot of fight going on,

Brotherhood,

Fraternity,

Equality,

But more… more clashes are happening within the four walls of a home in a family than between India and Pakistan,

Believe me.

No,

You're little frustrated,

You can ask me more questions.

Hmm?

I'm genuinely not frustrated by this.

It's just that the example which you have just given,

That there are more clashes which happen… Is it happening or not?

…than outside,

Is… In essence,

First of all,

It is not essentially fact-based because it doesn't take into a… it's on an assumption of how many clashes occur between India and Pakistan.

The second is,

It assumes that clashes which are occurring within the family are of the same magnitude… See,

Magnitude is different because we are not armed within the family and we have no intent to kill,

All right?

We have no intent to kill,

But clashes are happening,

Isn't it?

Emotions are happening.

Are they happening or not?

If you believe of everyone as your… extension of your spiritual being,

Would clashes also not occur?

You see,

Spirituality is not a belief,

That is where you're wrong.

See,

You think spirituality is one more belief like your values.

Your values are made up by you.

Spiritual process is not made up by you.

If you sit here and breathe,

What you exhale,

The trees are inhaling.

What the trees are exhaling,

You are inhaling.

Is it a fact or is it my idea?

It's a fact.

Now,

This fact is only intellectual.

But experientially if you sit here and actually experience one-half of my lungs is actually hanging out there,

Which is the fact.

If you experience this,

After that though I have to tell you,

Don't cut the tree.

See,

There is… there is human thought.

This… this whole thing comes from the fundamental that we have made human thought far more important than the reality of the existence.

Human thought is very small because it is just a consequence of little data that you have in your head,

Isn't it?

All the thought that you have is coming from the data that you have gathered.

Whatever data I have gathered,

Whatever you have gathered,

Whatever all of them put together have gathered is still a minuscule in this existence.

Is it so?

Hello?

You may be a PhD,

But I'm asking you.

Is it a minuscule?

So with such a small piece of information,

You are coming to conclusions which is not right.

That is why spiritual process means you don't attach any importance to your own thought and emotion.

You see how to dip into those dimensions of humanity,

Which is not defined by boundaries of your physical nature.

This is what spiritual process means.

Spiritual process is not a belief system,

It is not an ideology,

It is not a philosophy.

When your experience of life is little more than your physical nature,

Then you use this corrupted word spirituality.

Participant – While answering the last question,

You talked about memory,

Right?

So my question is,

If all we are doing… So what's your view?

Should we have an all-encompassing memory or should it be a memoryless being?

You know,

Because if we are a memoryless being,

Then there's no concept of future and past.

There's no relation between actions and consequences.

We talked about experience,

That doesn't exist.

Sadhguru – No,

How does this idea come,

Memoryless being?

Participant – You talked about chitta that has… Sadhguru – I said memoryless intelligence,

An intelligence which is beyond memory.

I did not talk about a memoryless being because if there is no memory,

There is no individuality of any kind,

Isn't it?

Participant – So that's what the point is.

To be an individual,

Memory is important,

But because we have memory,

All these shortcomings… Sadhguru – If it is not memory is important,

Memory is the basis of your individual nature.

Participant – Is individualism important,

Like being… Sadhguru – See,

Individualism means you're trying to make a religion out of yourself.

There is no individualism.

It is a privilege.

Though we are part of everything here,

If we don't understand this,

We'll get the point when people bury us that we are a part of everything.

Right now we stand up.

See,

Your existence here is like a pop-up on your computer screen.

You pop up for two minutes and you go,

Okay?

In the life of this planet,

You were just a small pop-up.

You'll go pop and pop,

That's it.

You and me,

Right now when we are here,

We think we are this.

But all this countless number of people who came before us,

You think they were idiots?

They were also like you and me,

Big people,

But all topsoil now,

Isn't it?

So anyway,

We have no individuality.

Individuality is an assumed thing.

This is a great privilege creation has given us.

Though we are part of everything,

We are allowed to experience life as an individual.

How fantastic it is!

We are greatly,

Greatly,

You know,

Grateful to this process because it allows a little bit of individuality for this fewer years that we're here.

These years in the life of this planet is really nothing.

Two seconds,

They calculate something.

Out of the billion years,

Whatever it's been here.

So if two-second pop-up assumes individualism,

What is that?

It's a privilege that we have some sense of individual experience.

Otherwise we would have no experience if there was no memory,

Okay?

So if you dip into chitta,

Does my individuality completely vanish?

No.

When you dip into it,

It gives you an experience beyond the boundaries of your individuality.

Because of this… See,

You are in this country,

You're an Indian,

But can you travel out?

If you travel out,

You're not an Indian anymore?

Participant – I still am.

Sadhguru – You still are.

Just the same way.

I'm still the same person,

But I'm no more limited by the boundaries of my physiology and my psychological structure anymore.

This gives me a larger sense of experience.

Moving on to the mythology.

So we know that Iliad was written by Homer,

Right?

A blind guy,

He wrote that there are 14,

000 horses.

But since we know that he could not have seen it for himself,

We believe that there's some sort of historical,

You know,

Storytelling going on there.

Would you say… But nowadays,

All the scriptures,

Religious scriptures are taken as gospel.

So should we also believe that there is myth-making in Ramayana,

In Mahabharata,

And that taking them as gospel rather than just work of literature is wrong?

I don't see anybody taking Ramayana and Mahabharata as a gospel.

Participant – There are certain factions which are… Sadhguru – No,

No.

They cannot because they'll get freaked out with confusion.

Because there are all kinds of people in Mahabharata,

The best sort of men,

The worst sort of men,

In between every kind of man and woman,

Is there over 100,

000 characters.

How can you make a gospel out of it?

So you said storytelling.

I don't know if you've seen the byline of Youth and Truth,

Not the seriousness of gospel but the playfulness of gossip,

Because gossip has always been reliable.

No… At any time in history,

Nobody went by the official version.

Whatever the official version came,

People asked around with their friends and relatives,

What happened?

When five people said five different things,

People learned out of their wisdom to extract some truth out of the gossip.

But people always relied more on the gossip than the official version,

Isn't it so?

It's not just today,

Always.

Questioner – However,

Given that this gossip can lead to a transformation of this truth to an extent where it's lost forever,

Do you think that's troubling?

Sadhguru – See,

First of all,

You're questioning did it actually happen,

Right?

Questioner – No,

No.

So we are saying that the same argument which you have given is the argument which is usually used these days to say that buildings which were constructed by the Mughals were actually not Mughal structures.

Sadhguru – Oh,

Okay.

I get the point.

Questioner – However,

That gossip being misinterpreted completely.

Sadhguru – Now,

See,

If you come further south,

People are questioning whether Rama existed or not,

Okay?

This is just a question of poor memory.

When the entire nation has been talking about it for thousands of years,

Now the problem is your trust in printed word is more than the spoken word.

That is the whole problem.

But you must understand this is a oral culture.

We always transmitted most significant things orally.

You may think it's insignificant because it's not written,

But anybody can write it down.

People have written it down now,

Now it's a printed word.

But now somebody questions did Rama exist or not.

Not in one place,

In entire culture,

When everybody is talking about the same story with minor variations here and there,

It could not have been just made up by all the people.

Isn't it?

Questioner – I guess his point was also by bringing in the Iliad example the same,

That the war on Troy did happen.

But the fact that Homer says that 14,

000 horses were there is clearly not truth.

Sadhguru – Maybe not.

Questioner – Maybe Rama did exist,

But other facts which are… other things… Sadhguru – See,

We are… after all Indians,

We invented zero.

We have certain freedom in using number of zeros.

We're taking liberty with that.

Don't… see… See,

Whether… whether six,

Seven thousand years ago,

Whether hundred thousand men fought or ten thousand men fought,

Doesn't make a difference.

The way the story is said in this country is not for its facts,

But for its truth.

You're trying to bring out a certain truth.

The fact of it,

Whether hundred thousand men fought,

Ten thousand men fought,

What does it matter,

You don't have to manage that war today,

It's over.

So the important thing is,

What is there for me to learn from that,

All right?

If… if that's a question mark,

We can go ahead with that.

Questioner – I guess that was his point itself,

That when you look at religious texts,

As you would learn from… Sadhguru – See,

Don't call them religious texts.

This is nation's history.

Questioner – So let's say if you look at another piece of literature,

You would derive learnings from it.

Sadhguru – No.

Literature is different,

History is different.

Literature… literature can be fiction.

History is written in a dialectical way so that it's always relevant for you.

I'm saying six thousand years ago,

Whether a man existed or not,

What's my problem?

Unless he has something to contribute to my life today,

Isn't it?

Questioner – However,

If history has been written and the facts of the history are not clear… Sadhguru – See,

This is what I'm saying.

The fact is like this.

Suppose six thousand years ago,

Rama had a wife whose name was not Sita,

What's my problem?

Questioner – We are not questioning whether the name was… Sadhguru – Not only the name,

I'm saying,

Okay,

He was not his… father's name was not that,

It was something else.

He was somebody else.

What does it matter to me?

Questioner – We are even questioning the sequence of events over here.

Sadhguru – You can.

See,

Sequence of events also you can question,

But what I'm asking is,

A six thousand year old Rama,

If it got little mixed up,

It is not your problem.

The problem is just this,

Is there something for us to get from that?

That's all the thing is.

Now,

Why we are worshipping Rama in this country is,

He's not a super success.

He's a serial disaster,

If you look at it.

Yes.

Even today he's having real estate issues,

That's why you brought this up.

But it is not today alone,

It's not today alone,

Right from the beginning of his life,

He's in trouble and trouble and trouble and trouble.

See,

He's rightfully a king.

He's coronated at the age of seventeen or eighteen.

He marries a princess,

And within one or two years,

He's sent to the forest.

They didn't go to the jungle for picnic.

As some of the television serials are showing Rama,

Sita doing all that.

No,

It is a… it is a like,

You know,

Throwing him out of the kingdom from his power and everything.

That itself would have shattered a man,

But he settled down there.

But Rama is also an insecure person who… when Sita came back to him,

First she sat through five… We will… we will come there,

Don't… first let's kidnap her,

No.

See,

Now you're changing the… see,

Now you're changing the sequence of things.

First let's kidnap her,

All right?

Now… now these Sri Lankan people come and kidnap his wife and go away.

After all… after all,

He is a king.

If somebody steals his wife and takes her away some 3000 kilometers down south,

There's no GPS to even find out where is Sri Lanka,

All right?

At a time like that,

Being a king,

He could have found a local solution.

There would be any number of women to marry the man,

He's a king.

But he goes in search of her,

Not with a big army,

Just him and his brother,

Like ordinary people.

If a man has to walk 3000 kilometers down south,

Not knowing where she is,

Whether she's alive or dead or what's happened,

Then she must mean so much to him,

Yes or no?

Otherwise,

Why would a man walk that distance?

Now,

He goes there,

He forms a Tamil army,

Don't forget this.

And then there is a fight,

Kills hundreds of people,

Burns down a beautiful city,

Gets back his wife,

Comes and settles down.

Before this,

I will tell you,

He goes for a year of penance in Himalayas.

His brother asks,

Are you crazy?

This man stole your wife and now you're doing penance for his death?

He said he had ten basic qualities,

Ravana.

Killing those nine,

Which were horrendous qualities,

I… no penance for me,

No repentance for that.

But he was also a great devotee and I killed that also.

So one year of penance the man goes for.

This is not a… And then he settles down and his wife is pregnant.

You must understand for a king,

His wife is pregnant means it's not just about a child,

It's a progeny for his empire and there are many things involved.

No sonogram,

So he doesn't know whether it's a girl or a boy or boys or girls or anything.

But once again a political situation evolves where he has to send his wife to the forest,

Which you are saying is insecurity.

Questioner 1 – Not that part.

So we can even begin from the first point in which after he rescues Sita,

Sita has to sit through a fire to prove that she is pure.

For whom?

So that other people will accept her because Rama cared about how people saw him.

Rama when he came back,

A random dhobi in your kingdom said that Sita,

I am not like Ram who will keep a woman in my house who might have a child which is not mine.

For this Rama sends away Sita again to the forest.

That is the insecurity you are talking about.

Questioner 2 – At any point Rama wanted his people to love him.

No,

No,

Let's come to this properly.

Today in our country there are many kinds of things.

I am asking you,

Do you want a leader for this nation who puts the people of this nation above his own family and his personal love?

I am asking you.

Or do you want a Dhrithrashtra at any cost my son?

You want a man who puts the citizens of this country above his family.

This is not just another woman for him.

He went and fought a battle for her,

Walked three thousand kilometers.

This is not just another woman.

He is living for her but still he sends her back to the jungle when she is pregnant,

Knowing fully well that it could be his future for this kingdom.

And he is putting… see this is not just about a dhobi.

This is what you are mistaken… you are taking these things literally.

When a dhobi said,

What it is being said is,

Ordinary people are talking like this.

Ordinary people have no trust in the king that he is… he has just brought some woman from somewhere and he has made her our queen because queen is seen as a mother to the nation.

We don't want such a woman as our mother,

That's what they are saying.

She went and lived with some man somewhere.

This is what the people of those times are saying.

So if the king says,

I don't care what you think,

I love my wife and keep her,

That would be not a good king,

Not a good administrator.

So he is putting his people above somebody that he loves very,

Very dearly and she is pregnant.

It's not a small thing for him.

It means a world.

But still he sends her to the jungle.

This should be bowed down to.

This is why we bow down to the man.

No?

Please say it.

No,

No.

No,

No,

Why?

He hears something to say,

Please.

So there are different types of responsibilities of you as a person.

As a king,

There are different responsibilities and as a human,

As a family member you have different responsibilities.

Now you can't just throw away your wife and send her to a jungle.

It's like just objectifying her.

It's not treating her like another human who is pregnant who will need different things and have promised her different things.

Well,

Then you are against Gautam Buddha,

You are against Rama,

Everybody.

But you need to understand this in the right context.

That is,

If this woman didn't mean anything to her,

He wouldn't have traveled down to Sri Lanka,

Fought a battle and brought her back,

Isn't it?

It was his pride about what… How can you?

His pride you could have got,

He could have got a hundred wives around him if he wished,

But he went for this person who means so much to him.

No,

No,

You must see the words that he's uttered.

You must see the words he uttered about Sita,

What she means to him,

How he cried to Lakshmana and what he said.

Why are you reading all these evil intentions in his mind that he did not express anywhere?

He did not express… With our words,

We can say anything.

See,

As far as you are concerned,

You know only what you read.

You don't know anything else about his life,

Neither me nor you,

All right?

So,

From what you read,

Nowhere does it say that he was insecure,

Nowhere does it say he went for his pride.

Nowhere does it say that… No,

No,

Everywhere it says very clearly.

Let me tell you,

The reason why he is worshipped today is,

Though life through disasters after disasters at him,

The man never became resentful,

Never became hateful,

Never became angry.

He did not become a recluse either.

He went about fulfilling every duty that he has to do with a personal pain and grief that he is carrying all his life.

The man went about doing the best he can do for his praja of the day.

If this is being accused of being as pride and this… Participants – whoo!

There were strong reactions to that question but I believe I think that's a nice segue to the next one,

Which is once… Sadhguru – Why do you say it's a reaction?

Participants – At least… Sadhguru – Say it.

Participants – You had once said that people should not react to injustice,

But this country has been based on civil disobedience movement.

Movements like anti-… Sadhguru – Did I say they should not react to injustice?

Participants – There was a quote of you… Sadhguru – Like what?

Participants – …said that people should not… Sadhguru – Why don't you just read the quote in sup… paraphrasing like this?

Maybe you did… Participants – Very quote was… Sadhguru – Huh?

Participants – …we should not react to injustice.

Sadhguru – Yes.

Yes.

But I did not say you should not respond sensibly.

Participants – Okay.

We… We want to know why or what the context behind this is.

Sadhguru – Yes,

Because the context is I am differentiating between human response and human reaction.

If I react,

I will only cause one more injustice.

Right now,

What I think is injustice,

I will feel angry and I will do one more injustice.

But if I see this injustice is happening and respond to the best of my intelligence and my capability,

There could be a solution.

Participants – So you have defined reaction and… Sadhguru – Yes,

Reaction and response I have clearly defined all along.

Is it not important that you respond consciously rather than re… reacting violently?

Participants – We completely agree with this.

Sadhguru – Right.

Participants – So… Sadhguru – It's… I'm glad you… serious face is gone,

You're laughing.

Now we can talk.

Participants – So,

This was you quoted somewhere that religions have nothing to do with the lynchings that have been going on around.

But if we see the facts,

Members of a particular minority community are being targeted by the perpetrators who identify themselves with another religious community.

And if these are the facts,

Then how can you say that religions are not connected to the lynchings?

See,

Probably you're just going by the television reports,

Just go little further into the… Participants – So… Participants – We read your book as well.

So in your book you say… Sadhguru – In book I'm talking about lynchings?

Participants – No,

No.

Participants – Yeah.

So in your book you have mentioned that you went to a village and a policeman was your friend and you mentioned that… Sadhguru – No,

I will tell you the incident properly,

You don't water this down.

I will tell you that incident properly.

Will you give me two minutes?

All right.

See,

I was living in a remote part of Karnataka.

Karnataka is generally a docile,

Peaceful place.

It's not a very activist kind or violent kind,

There's no religious frictions happening.

It's very docile people.

One day I just ride down into the village and the big crowd and I… what is it?

I just park and go and see the beating one person like you can't imagine.

With all kinds of things,

Whatever they get,

I try to stop,

They just brush me aside and say,

You don't get into this.

As I saw within two,

Three minutes,

The man died.

Don't know who he is.

Those days in the villages,

Nobody wore trousers,

Normally they wear either shorts or dhoti's and things like that.

This guy had trousers and some kind of dirty looking shirt.

And somebody thought he's a child lifter.

Right there they killed him and they dug a hole right outside the village where everybody can see and they buried him right there because nobody has any fear that this is going to be a murder,

This is going to be pursued.

There is no such thing.

They think it's their right to do that.

I was… Parked till then,

I had never faced a situation like that in my life.

I was just twenty-two,

Twenty-three.

So,

I rode down to the police station which was just about eight or nine kilometers from there.

This policeman or this sub-inspector was my senior in college,

So I knew him.

So,

I went to him and I just saw this,

You have to come and do something.

He said,

You do not get into these things.

I said,

What?

They killed the man,

I can show you where he is buried.

This body is right there.

Nothing.

I tried to talk to the local MLA.

He said,

Please,

You don't get into this.

When I really looked at it,

Then it happened after three,

Four days,

Late night around one-thirty,

I'm coming from Mysore city to my farm on a remote road.

It's a very remote place,

You know,

It's in the hills.

I ride him,

Young people are standing there with fires burning,

With sticks and rods and everything.

Oh,

Oh,

Oh,

They shout,

The motorcycle comes means.

If you don't identify yourself,

You would be killed too,

Right there without a question.

Because the rumor has gone around,

Somebody is doing child lifting,

There's a local dam coming up,

They're sacrificing many children.

Nobody knows where the hell is the dam.

Nobody knows if anybody ever lost a child in the region.

But just this rumor goes around.

Then when I really look at it,

I saw another one like this which happened for some stealing that happened,

Another one where he was beaten but he did not die.

When you really look at it,

Every year in this country,

Over 40,

000 children go missing.

So there is a paranoia in the villages,

Especially girl child… girl children who go missing,

They just never found,

Never ever found.

So tomorrow if my child disappears,

What do I do?

Hold an FIR and sit there and pray,

Is it?

So first,

Their thing is to react in such a way,

If my child is stolen,

Is it an injustice to me?

Hello?

And never to find the child,

Again not knowing what happened,

Whether they're alive or dead.

If they die in front of you,

It's okay.

But they just disappear and you don't know whether they're alive or dead,

You know what the parents go through.

So there is a paranoia about this.

The same thing happens if somebody steals any animal or if they cut a tree in their… This is what happens when you use gossip as your source of information.

You… you're just misinterpreting the whole thing.

Please,

I have to say this.

Where is gossip as a… you… you think the whole script… all the literature or whatever the history that we're talking about is all gossip?

No,

No,

No,

I do not.

Going back to the point… No,

No,

Why are we referring to that now?

You're referring to Ramayan as just gossip?

I am not referring to that same point.

You only said that there was a rumor going around that… Obviously.

See,

You're calling it gossip,

But I'm telling you this is fear.

This is fear of a population who are not protected by any law except their own stuff.

They are on their own.

Don't think some police force will come in a helicopter and save your children.

There is no such arrangement.

When there is no arrangement like that,

They make their own crude arrangements,

Unfortunately.

I have seen… somebody says,

One cow is stolen.

Immediately,

Ten,

Fifteen boys get on the bicycles and ride in different directions.

One thirty,

Forty kilometers they… if they catch the guy,

That's the end of him,

Right there.

Not because cow is religion,

Simply because it's economy.

With two cows,

I'm making my life.

If you steal my cow,

My children will go hungry tomorrow morning.

So they will fight.

So this is because the law has not spread it out to every inch of geography on this land.

You must understand this.

Even today,

In a big city,

I'm telling you,

If something happens to you,

If you want to file a complaint,

You will have to take the local MLA,

Somebody else,

A businessman who knows somebody.

By yourself,

You can't file.

This is the reality.

Somebody who has no basis in his life.

Questioner 1 – Does this imply mob justice is valid?

Sadhguru – How are you saying these things?

Do I look like a lyncher for you?

Then why are you asking that question?

I'm telling you,

See,

See,

See… See,

See,

See,

See,

See,

This is the problem.

The problem is we don't want to understand the reality and the pain of the people.

We just want to make a judgment on them.

I'm saying,

Unfortunately,

Nobody has provided them a way.

So they're doing their own things.

When mob enforces something,

This is the unfortunate way it will happen.

Do we want this to happen?

Absolutely no.

But do we have means to stop it right now?

Till you make law available to everybody and quick justice to everybody,

I'm telling you,

People will do their own things.

If you think they should not do,

Because you're living in the safe,

You know,

Enclosure of a wonderful institution,

You don't understand what it is in a village.

When my child was missing,

What do I do?

What do I do?

Where do I go?

You don't know.

I've seen people,

Women crying and beating their breasts and walking around because their children are missing.

They don't know where they've gone.

Finished.

Can I speak?

Yes,

Sir.

So,

You have talked in general about the lynchings that have been happening and we don't deny that.

They have been happening throughout the history,

They have been happening in this country and are inability to bring them to the judiciary is the cause.

But I'm talking about a specific… I got it.

I got that.

…which have increased recently and which are facts that they have been increasing recently.

And it's not about my cow getting staked,

It's about there is a cow somewhere out there,

It's been killed and now I have to lynch for that.

There is a difference in mentality and it has not been seen before.

Definitely there is.

It's not that it's not been seen before.

It's right now being reported because this is one of the strategies… political strategies that's happening in the country.

It's not also about political strategy.

There are many incidences which have not been reported by media but are still happening and there's research being going on about that.

So,

Whatever we found out about the lynching are just like few percentage of that.

It's a very small percentage what you've found out.

Till now in these four years,

Because basically this is all focused towards this particular government,

All right?

So,

In these four years,

Forty-two lynchings have been reported.

Out of these twelve lynchings are supposed to be more… what do you say?

Religious basis is there to it,

Twelve of them out of forty-two.

But over three-and-a-half to four million bovine animals in this country are stolen every year.

And they're smuggled across both the borders.

Now western border has become very tight because of security issues.

Largely it's going through the eastern border.

When this… who is losing these four million cows?

You must see this.

Whose economy is ruined?

Somebody's economy is ruined,

His family economy is ruined,

Isn't it?

Because animals went away.

Over three-and-a-half to four million animals are stolen in the country every year.

And anyway,

For your information,

Every year in four years,

Forty-two lynchings have happened,

Twelve of them have a religious connotation to it for sure.

There's no question.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan That is reported.

But what is not reported is every year over hundred uniformed men,

Including BSF soldiers,

Are lynched and killed by the cattle smugglers.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan That's totally a different issue.

Let's not bring that into this.

That's totally a different issue.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan No,

No,

Please why is it?

It is connected,

Right?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So this is not just about… Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan No,

No,

No,

Please,

Please let us… why?

Just because somebody wears a uniform,

Is he supposed to die?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I'm just saying let's not connect these two issues.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan No,

No,

I want… Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan One is religious,

One is security.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I want you to understand when there is a large-scale crime going on,

When there's a large-scale crime going on,

Four million animals means on this side of the border,

They're approximately ten to fifteen thousand rupees.

Across the border,

They're between thirty to fifty thousand rupees.

I want you to calculate the numbers.

You're the business guys,

All right?

I won't get the numbers right,

Please get me the numbers.

I totally agree with you.

I've been happy.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So when… Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I've been happy.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Sir,

Sir,

Please understand this.

These cows don't fly.

They… they have to be walked,

All right?

These cows,

These animals have to be walked or transported in trucks.

Only small amount is transported in trucks.

Rest of them are walked in the nights,

Okay?

From across the country,

Four million animals.

When such a large-scale crime is happening,

You think there will be no reaction at all?

When nobody is caught?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Why change now?

Why now?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Huh?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Why recent few years?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan See,

It is not now,

It is only reported now.

It's always been happening,

I'm telling you.

They have reported only forty-two lynchings.

I will… I will… you know,

I'm on camera but I'm telling you,

From my experience of rural India,

I would say anywhere between two-hundred to five-hundred lynchings have happened in these four years.

And similar numbers or much bigger numbers have happened in the past.

Because unfortunately,

This is how things are enforced in this country.

You have to change it means you have to create an enforcement mechanism that's available to everybody.

In United States,

They say an average time in which a police car arrives is three minutes and twenty seconds.

Even if it's in Montana,

Average time.

In New York City,

They will arrive within thirty-forty seconds,

Armed men,

Not just handguns.

If you open their boot,

They got a shotgun,

They got rifles,

They got works.

Now,

A lotty-wielding,

Cycle-ridden policeman comes.

You think he can handle these ten-fifteen youth or hundred youth who are indulging in this violence?

He is not capable of handling.

So,

Can we create a nation where law can be enforced or are we just going on accusing each other,

You did it,

I did it,

I did it,

You did it?

What's the point?

If you want to create a law-abiding nation,

The instruments of law should be strengthened.

We are talking about police reforms for twenty-five years,

Where the hell are they?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I think we will… Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So,

To wrap up the argument here,

I'll… I'll be… I'll be wrapping up your argument.

So,

You… What you are suggesting is that mass hysteria is pretty common,

Has already existed,

Mostly because of… Sadhguru See,

You can give… See,

You can give names sitting in the comfort of your well-to-do homes,

You can give these names,

It's mass hysteria.

Tell me any of you ladies I'm asking you,

Suppose your child is stolen and you… you know that you may never find,

How will you react?

You will go wild,

All right?

Don't call it mass hysteria,

This,

That.

This is absence of law enforcement.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan We are also agreeing with that,

That it is strong… Sadhguru But why are you calling it mass hysteria,

As if it's some kind of an ailment?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I mean,

This is caused because people don't have enough information or they believe in rumors or because… Sadhguru See,

There are rumors,

But why are you ignoring?

Every year,

40,

000 children are stolen,

It's not a rumor,

It's a fact.

For nearly four million cattle are stolen,

It's not a rumor,

It's a fact.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan But also legal enforcement needs to be strengthened.

The fact that these things happen is problematic.

That's all,

That is all I am saying,

But you pick up one sentence and you say,

Supporting lynching,

How can you say that?

This… this looks like… I am not supporting lynching.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Again,

Sadhguru,

One important thing is,

These are things which we came across,

Which we felt that… Sadhguru You can ask me,

There is… there is no problem asking any question.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan We wanted to know what was the context behind these statements.

Sadhguru This is the context,

All right.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Because as you pointed out,

People should not react to injustice,

Had a very different context.

There was a difference… there was a difference… Sadhguru They must respond sensibly.

In a conscious manner,

Human being means one significant aspect of who we are is… See,

We do the same things animals do.

We are born,

They are born,

We eat,

They eat,

They reproduce,

We reproduce,

We sleep,

They sleep,

We die,

They die.

We do the same things.

Only difference is,

We can do these things consciously.

If we give up that one consciously acting,

We are just one more creature on this planet.

So,

I am… why was making the distinction,

If you react,

You will just express your animal nature in some way.

So,

This whole lynching business is just a reaction.

But at the same time,

People are helpless,

They have no other way.

There is no other way.

You can go and file an FIR and hold this paper in your hand.

You will not see anything happening in a village.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan You have said that all men and women are equal,

We all believe that.

Sadhguru Why should you believe?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Like there is no disagreement here.

Sadhguru I thought it's the same species.

What do you think?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan It is.

But you have also said that you cannot imagine your own household without a non-working mother.

Sadhguru Did I say that?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yes.

Sadhguru No.

My mother was working more than anybody else.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I think so.

Sadhguru She took a lot of pride in doing her work.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Okay,

Let's come to the major point.

So,

Unlike your mother or my mother,

She is also a working mother.

The women have had a choice,

Right?

My mother had a choice,

Your mother had a choice.

But that's not the case with everyone,

Right?

So the main point is that of agency,

Right?

And then believe that the agency is being taken away because of the gender of the person.

So they are not allowed to decide what is happening.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan There are certain societal expectations that certain roles will be fulfilled.

Sadhguru See,

Expectations are there.

When you don't fulfill expectations,

There'll be some price to pay.

But that is so for everybody.

That is… See,

I'm not trying to say there has not been a certain level of exploitation.

There definitely has been.

But don't once again react to that and do reverse job.

All you have to do is educate,

Educate,

Educate.

Just leave it.

You will see in a generation,

Everything will change.

This is the first generation of women in this country who stepped out.

Please understand,

Women have stepped out and doing so many things in the world,

Not because of your liberal ideas.

It's only because of technology.

Because technology has leveled the playing field.

Technology has taken away the significance of man's brawn.

Isn't it so?

Man's muscle has become insignificant simply because of technological development,

Not because of some liberalism or feminism or whatever.

It is only because of technological development,

Women are able to step out and do the same things that men were doing in the past.

Or even for the men it is new to sit in the office and do this.

Otherwise they were digging something,

All right?

Once the machines came,

Man's muscle became insignificant.

Because of that there is a way.

So just allow little more time rather than doing something in a rush,

In a reactionary way and breaking the social structures.

Because if you break them,

Do you have a better alternative?

That's the question.

Right now you're talking about your… you didn't want a working mother.

My mother was working all the time and she was very proud of what she was doing.

And she was the most respected person in the family.

Only thing is,

Only your idea of work is,

How much did she earn?

It was not significant for her.

The rupees and paisa were not significant for her.

Her values were totally different.

Again,

I think intent of the question got mistranslated,

Which has happened tremendously over here.

Why are you… So would you say that,

You know,

The only… The main intention… They're reading the question and how can it be mistranslated?

The intentions are not deep and broad.

So we can talk about,

You know,

The changing gender structure in the workforce and all that.

But do you feel that,

You know,

All the major movements,

Feminism,

Civil disobedience,

Anti-apartheid,

Anti-racism,

These are responses or reactions?

See,

Anti-apartheid is a different dimension altogether,

All right?

That's a different thing.

Similarly,

We… Huh?

How is it different?

See,

It is an engineered… an engineered discrimination,

All right?

Between men and women,

Things… responsibilities were divided.

It is only when it so happened that our values became purely economic,

Suddenly we thought women are at a disadvantage.

If you go to the village and see men and women are working on the field as equals,

Well,

She will do planting,

He will do digging.

Does it mean to… mean to say inequality?

He has more muscles,

So he does that kind of work.

She has another kind of strength,

So he does this.

And well,

You brought my mother into the picture.

Now she had four children.

When you have four children,

You have a project on hand,

All right?

Well,

It's an important project.

She did a good job on me.

The… the kind that I was,

If she did not tend to me constantly,

I don't know what I would have become,

All right?

She did a good job on me and I'm glad.

Not by domineering presence,

But simply out of her love,

You could not do anything that she won't like,

Simply because she will simply sit there with a tear in her eye and finished.

Everybody is finished in the house.

That's all.

She never said one word,

She never scolded anybody,

Abused anybody,

Beat anybody.

If we did something that was against whatever she thought is good for everybody,

Just one tear appeared in her eyes,

Finished we were.

Everybody got fixed,

Absolutely.

So she had that kind of power and she exerted that when she had to.

Because she did not earn money,

Is she inferior to anybody?

I don't think so.

I don't think even he implied that.

No,

No.

When you say working mother and a non-working mother,

It's a wrong description.

They're working.

Only thing is they may not be getting paid for it.

Exactly how you said that react and response are nuanced versions of the same word.

Working,

Non-working are nuanced versions of the same word.

So you're talking about,

You know,

The gender roles that are usually associated and what the expectation is.

See,

If a woman wants to work outside,

Anyway there is a biological responsibility.

For some reason,

Nature has trusted a woman more than the man and entrusted.

.

.

No.

Entrusted this responsibility of manufacturing,

I'm using the word manufacturing intently,

Intentionally,

Manufacturing the next generation.

Isn't this one of the most important things that needs to happen in human societies?

Hello?

If we don't do this properly,

It doesn't matter what kind of management techniques you learn,

Is it going to work in the society,

I'm asking?

So now,

Once you have a child,

A human child is not born like other creatures,

You drop,

You know,

A cow drops a calf and immediately it starts running around.

A human being is not born like that.

A human being needs nurture.

Now we are in a society where the first generation has stepped out to work outside.

Once again,

Because of technology,

They again started working from home,

Which is a very good thing actually.

But they stepped outside,

But we don't have social structures to take care of the young ones.

You leave your children into somebody's hands and go.

You know what,

All damage can happen.

You know how America is suffering for this?

Though they have lot of structures and laws about how children should be taken care of,

In spite of that.

I'm just… I'm just saying this because just a few days ago,

They brought this child,

Who is eight-year-old girl from Ohio,

An Indian couple.

When the child was young,

They left this child.

Usually teenage students take up this babysitting because they need some extra money.

So this is called as what?

They shake them like this.

What's it called?

There's some term for this,

That they shake the children like this when they are crying,

So that they quieten up.

So this girl was shaken like this.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan- Bad parenting is the word.

Bad parenting.

No,

No,

No.

The babysitters… the babysitters are known to do this.

There's a term,

Technical term for that.

Because there are so many thousands of cases where children have been damaged because of this shaking.

So the spine got damaged and this girl,

The left side got paralyzed.

And they brought this girl to me.

She… eight-year-old girl.

Now we're putting her through various things.

She's beginning to walk,

But her speech is not there.

So many troubles.

Normal child.

But a seventeen-year-old girl who came there to do babysitting,

She's just got irritated with this baby crying and she shook her.

So child,

A human child needs not just nourishment.

It needs somebody to play with,

Somebody to laugh,

Somebody to smile,

Somebody to love and hug and kiss the child.

Till we make such arrangements,

Don't be in too much of a rush because we'll damage a whole generation of people.

We need to make those arrangements in the society.

See,

Just now… just now this society has… just beginning to move away from joint family structure,

Where we had the luxury of grandmothers and aunts and this and that,

All that is gone.

Nuclear families have come,

Just husband,

Wife,

Children.

Now there is no support system,

Nor is there an organized support system either by the government or private agencies.

Nobody has come up with a real-time support system for young children.

Where are you going to throw them and go when you go to work?

I don't believe he's meaning you throw them and go.

I am… I did not say he means that.

Why are you taking everything like that?

I didn't mean he's… I mean… I didn't mean he said that.

I mean to say,

Suppose I have… I am a woman and I have a job and I have a child,

What do I do?

When the society doesn't make arrangements,

What do I do with my child?

Where do I live in whose hands?

Questioner 1 – So Sadhguru,

Because of paucity of time and because many people might also have questions over here,

We'll have to open the floor for questions.

We'll be opening the floor for questions right now,

So people in that quadrant.

But you should not translate their questions,

Okay?

Questioner 2 – I have a question that if I… if I say if I get a seat at IIM,

My parents are very happy and then they congratulate me for my hard work.

But the same thing,

If I do not get a seat,

They are like,

You'll get what God intended for you.

So if already everything is predestined for me,

Why do I take up all this effort to even work hard?

Sadhguru – No,

No.

It is not predestined.

They are just… they just have a system as to how to address the failure.

They don't want you to get totally frustrated and agonized by something that did not work.

This is God's intention,

Just enjoy the God's lap,

Okay?

This is a… this is an effective way of creating solace.

This is not a solution.

But this is a solace,

This is a psychological process that somebody is trying to diminish your suffering for that moment so that you understand you are in greater plan.

That's why you didn't get that mission.

Questioner 3 – Namaskaram,

Sadhguru.

My question is everybody has got their own dream,

Specially related to career.

But sometimes the dream of a child goes against the willingness of his parents.

A child want to do something and his parents want him to do something else.

What should a child do in this situation?

Should… should he go against with his own dream against his parents with his own dream or should he kill the dream inside him and obey his parents?

Namaskaram.

Sadhguru – Are you the child,

Sir?

Questioner 3 – Yeah.

No,

Luckily I am not.

Sadhguru – Please.

Well,

We must understand this,

If what we want to do is not in already laid out path,

If you want to do something different,

If you think you will ever do it with everybody's approval,

It'll never happen,

All right?

At the same time,

Somebody has born you,

Somebody has brought you up,

Somebody has educated you,

Somebody has… in many ways they lived their life for you.

Can you just reject them and do what the hell you want?

No.

So,

You must understand the parent and child relationship is that of love.

Tch,

You must increase the love volume and do what you want to do.

Now the problem is when you… when they say no,

You will get angry and say nasty things.

No,

You should not react like that.

You must respond by increasing the love volume.

When you increase the love volume,

They melt.

Then you must tell them,

See this is what I wish to do,

Otherwise I will not be happy doing what you want me to do.

They will… Next.

Sir,

There is a prize for everything we do in our lives.

So,

We were talking about how it is a dilemma for a mother if she has a job to serve and a child to take care of.

My question is why the same dilemma doesn't exist for the father?

Because we're talking about a mother should be there to play with the child,

To take care.

Why can a father not be there or why the same dilemma doesn't exist for the father as it does for the mother?

It is not that it doesn't exist,

It does exist today.

It is just that at an early age,

A child prefers mother's company more than the father's.

When he starts running around,

He likes father.

When he is still crawling and boo-boo-boo,

He likes mother.

At least the first three years,

Four years,

The child prefers the mother because it's natural for the child to prefer that comfort of a mother.

But when he starts running around six,

Seven,

Eight,

Then he wants father because he wants adventure.

He wants to go out,

He wants to go on a motorcycle or he wants to go somewhere else.

But early age,

He wants the comfort of the mother.

Now,

Generally we have not created this.

This is something we can do,

Which we have been talking about but it's not happened.

There are many people like this.

I said such people move into one apartment.

One lady who is really good at children,

Good with children,

She could take care of all the children very well and do something.

Some cooperation has to happen because we have banished our grandmothers and aunts and others,

We can't stand them anymore.

At least somebody who could be paid something but who is a volunteer,

Not simply a paid person who is going to take care of a child like this.

Somebody who has some care and concern for the child has to be there.

But unfortunately,

Those arrangements are yet to happen in our society because it's new.

Arrangements have not come.

I'm sure in the next fifteen,

Twenty years this will come,

But there is a certain amount of suffering in the meantime.

For the manifestation or the achievement of the goals or passions or even for holding a king cobra,

As you say,

A wholesome control over the chemistry of thoughts and emotions is necessary.

So,

At this point in life with so many stimulations,

Opportunities,

Distractions,

Ambitions,

Passions,

Everything hovering all around,

How to achieve that control over the chemistry of thoughts,

Emotions and fears as well.

So,

How to aggravate or elevate that either within to read that.

.

.

Like to reach that silence within where we could do what we want and whatever we want becomes what it is.

It's a long question,

Eh?

See,

One thing is when it comes to what's within us,

If we do not harness the prowess of this body and the prowess of this mind,

You will not do anything significant,

Isn't it so?

The question is,

What methods do you have?

Right now,

The only methods you have is education.

That is learning,

Learning techniques,

Learning methods,

Learning information,

Exposure,

This.

There are other ways to do this also,

Where you can organize yourself that your body and your mind takes instructions from you.

This is one aspect of it.

It must.

Your body and your mind are your most basic faculties that you have.

They must take instructions from you.

If they work against you,

You're finished,

Isn't it?

Right now,

You call this stress,

Anxiety,

Nonsense,

Whatever.

Essentially,

Your intelligence is working against you.

Your thought and emotion is not going the way you want it to go,

It's doing its own thing.

Well,

If you cannot manage your own mind,

How the hell are you going to manage,

Let's say,

Hundred or thousand or ten thousand minds?

Because management essentially means you must be able to manage the people.

Managing the people means you must get everybody to get to one intent and act in a significant way.

How will you do this when your own mind doesn't take instructions from you?

You cannot manage yours,

But you believe you can manage theirs?

There is no way it's going to happen.

This is why a whole lot of people who are in successful professions are all having ulcers,

Heartburns,

Heartbreaks and all kinds of things because they are upping the activity without enhancing themselves.

It is like you want to be on a Formula One track,

But you went with your small little car that you.

.

.

Everybody drives to the office.

Then if you drive at a certain speed,

Four wheels will go in four different directions.

This is what is happening to a whole lot of people.

When they aspire for what they want and go at it,

Their body breaks down,

Their mind breaks down,

Something happens simply because they have not strived to enhance this.

First you enhance this,

Activity will open up in the world for you,

But you are in a rush for the goals that you have set up already.

Because of that,

You don't spend time on the.

.

.

If you do not enhance the machine,

Activity cannot be enhanced.

Stress will happen,

Breakdown will happen,

Isn't it?

But when it comes to the outside world,

There are a lot of misunderstandings about what is coming our way.

Can I tell you a joke?

I.

.

.

Because it's been so serious like.

.

.

This happened in Michigan.

A tiny little bird was very exuberant and happy and winter started coming.

It should have gone south,

But it was so happy it forgot about it and little late.

Then it tried to fly,

But because of the cold,

Its wings froze and it fell down.

Then a cow was passing that way.

It's an American cow.

A cow was passing that way and it dropped a heap of dung and it fell right on the bird.

So inside this dung,

The warmth of the dung caused thaw of the wings,

The ice melted away and it felt happy and warm.

Tick,

Tick,

Tick,

It started tweeting from inside the dung.

It couldn't get up,

But it was happy inside the dung.

A cat was going by,

It heard this bird tweaking,

It opened up the dung and ate up the bird.

The moral of the story is,

Not everybody who heaps dung on you is your enemy.

Not everybody who gets you out of shit is your friend and above all,

And above all,

When you're in a heap of shit,

Keep your mouth shut.

This is… this is… no,

I'm saying this because… this is because we have created a world now.

If I have trouble,

I must talk to everybody in the world.

They're all going to give thousand solutions.

No,

When you feel you're in trouble,

Please just spend some time upon yourself.

Invest some time and energy upon yourself because there is no trouble which troubles you,

Except what you allow,

Isn't it?

What is it?

You must invest some time and energy upon yourself.

This value of solitude is totally gone in the world in this generation.

Please bring it back if you want to make yourself of some substance.

Participant – I would like to thank the Isha Foundation for such a wonderful show they put on.

And thank you,

Sadhguru,

For spending so much time with us.

With this,

We close the session.

I want you to understand,

I don't know to what extent all of you are exposed to the nature of the country in which you're living.

We constantly keep gloating about the tremendous things the nation has done in the past.

Yes,

It is true.

But we've also forgotten a whole lot of horrendous things that have happened to this country.

And today we are where we are,

Where there's inequality of absurd kind,

Okay?

Absurd kind and most cruel kind.

A variety of problems in this country.

This country is a heap of problems.

This education that you're getting here in a premier institution,

Please may it become the source of sorting out and solving the problems in this country because I'm telling you not even one percent,

Not even one percent of this country's population can even sit in the kind of comfort and ambience that you and me are sitting right now.

Not even one percent.

This cannot be called success.

This cannot be called even a nation,

If you ask me.

So we have to make a nation out of this.

1.

3 billion people we have on our hands and a whole lot of them are youthful.

Please,

Whatever knowledge and capabilities that you get,

Invest that to bring some humanity to the human beings who are living in this country.

Please.

Reviews

Awesome as always!

So good and informative Thank you 🙏

He responds to some arrogant students in this one. It was difficult to listen to the interviewer.

Excellent as ever. The gift to put all matters in perspective is astonishing

A real treat - like always 🙏🏼💫🙏🏼

Thought provoking and enlightening. How blessed these young people were to have you share this Wisdom and Encouragement. Thank you 🙏🏻💕

I learned so much but missed a lot that is something I need to listen to more than once I very much enjoyed it

This was a really interesting discussion. I loved it. Thank you

I enjoy listening to Sadhguru, he offers a peaceful approaching to life circumstances. I found myself a bit on edge with one of the audience members endless questioning. I fear conflict. That's life!

A tough crowd! Sadguru hard at work on the spiritual coal face.

A wonderful insight into the mechanism behind reason both cause and effect. He has a wonderful open sense of humour and a realistic view of human behaviour. I really appreciate the lack of emotional judgement and the open sharing of profound understanding. TY 🙏