Fear Of Enlightenment (What Is Now? Podcast)

The "self" inevitably fears its own transcendence, and yet maybe craves it at the same time. Saqib & Charles explore this dilemma for themselves in the moment. They begin each session with one minute of silence, then relate with each other as presently as possible, and finish with a guided meditation based on the themes that arise in the session.

Transcript

Hello,

Welcome to another What Is Now?

Experience.

I'm Charles Freely and I'm here with my good friend Saket Brisby.

If we had to be categorized,

We're both investigators of consciousness with training backgrounds and professional experience in the world of psychological and spiritual healing.

Each of these sessions is an adventure of the present moment.

Saket and I begin each session by sitting in silence for one minute and then simply see what arises now.

We have no plan,

No prepared material or concepts to cover,

But are placing our trust in the wisdom of this right now experience.

This is an expression of our shared philosophy of healing.

If we can only let go of our desire for the present moment to be a certain way other than it is,

Then we can find the unexpected answers of what is actually now.

So if you will join us,

We will begin with one minute of silence and you can use this minute in whatever way you like with your eyes closed,

Sitting,

Eyes open,

Standing,

Or walking or driving in your car.

We only ask that you return to what is actually happening right now in this moment to reset the momentum of the day and open up to just this.

After this minute,

Saket and I will explore whatever arises between us.

We identify themes of our exploration as we go and then Saket finishes with a short guided meditation based on the themes that arise in the session.

And now let's enter one minute of silence together as we explore what is now really.

And you'll hear a bell to start and end this one minute of your day.

How was this experience of one minute for you?

I noticed that I feel like physically full or heavy,

Just like a heaviness.

It's kind of feeling in relation to this week I've been doing quite a lot and creating quite a lot.

And so maybe still feeling some of the residue of all of that creation on me.

I don't know how about you?

I felt this,

I think judging that I was getting some thoughts and I was at the same time judging those thoughts that thinking is not right.

There was this judgment that this thinking is not right,

But then it put a question into my mind is thinking really wrong in that sense because we have been in these Buddhist retreats and many places where we talk about mindfulness and just being in the moment right now.

But then I realized that I started judging this thinking part.

Whenever I would get thoughts,

I would start judging that,

Okay,

I'm not supposed to think.

But then there was this question whether is thinking really bad or is it that what we think is bad or good or whatever,

Even that is a label,

But what is it and how is it,

How should it be in that sense?

This question was arising in my mind.

What kind of thoughts were you having?

So there was this question and I'm the same,

The thought was about this only.

So the thought was about a sound that was there in my background and I was thinking that why do I get affected by these sounds and I shouldn't,

But then I started judging the thinking part and then there was a series of thoughts regarding this judgment thinking.

What do you think,

What is your thought of thinking?

Yeah I think it's really shifted over time to one of a lot more acceptance of thoughts as actually no different at all from anything else that I can be aware of.

As opposed to prioritizing maybe if I'm experiencing a physical sensation,

Feeling like that is something that is more,

That is better in terms of like a mindfulness practice or just feeling nothing.

Maybe I don't know if you can ever feel nothing,

But I've seen thinking as like also like if you were to view all of this as happening on a projector screen or something like that,

That thinking would also just be something equivalent to anything else that your basic awareness could become aware of and so there's actually nothing wrong with it at all.

But that is a tricky one because it does seem easy to come to see thinking as like the bad thing to get rid of.

Yeah and a lot of times what would happen is that for example I'm taking a walk in the nature and I would start thinking something.

Now at that time I'm like in a kind of a dilemma whether this is the time when I should just connect to nature or whether this is the time to have thoughts in my mind and then I realized that once I realized that okay these thoughts are also important.

These thoughts are not something that I should push away just because I have this idea of being in the moment right now.

Maybe all these thoughts require my attention right now and maybe so I was then kind of trying to figure out like is there a percentage or a ratio of time during the day when we you know kind of just be in the moment and or we are thinking at that time is it like what 80 20 is it that 20 percent of the time we think and 80 percent of the time we be in the moment what is that ratio ideal ratio and then I was thinking okay what kind of thinking might affect us.

So if we if we are maybe thinking of something that can really help us so that might be beneficial but if we are like in our stories that we create in our mind regarding our past oh that happened with me that happened with me or I'm kind of anxious about the future you know that what will happen so that thinking is affecting me in I don't want to label it but kind of a negative way that is causing me anxiety that is causing me stress or a certain level of sadness but the thinking which can actually benefit me so then I realized that this is not something I should judge this is something that is benefiting me because I'm getting a lot of ideas.

Hmm.

Hmm.

I feels kind of similar something that I've thought or like conceptualized which is like different layers of thought and there being like a layer that is self-conscious thinking which maybe is like very much so includes these storylines that we have about ourselves and are worried to some degree about how other people are perceiving us and are attempting to fit into some model of who I should be like based on my past.

It's like a very familiar layer of thought.

Yeah.

But then maybe there's another layer that is that you might call unselfconscious or non-selfconscious thinking which has no concern about how I'm being perceived or like how this plays out in any sort of win-lose fashion.

It's just like it's just interested in is playing with some thing.

I kind of think of it that way sometimes like is this something that I want to play with or is this useless and maybe it's like a real superpower to become aware of what it is that you're thinking and then say is this is do I want to play with this thing or no not really and so I'll let it go or this is actually kind of fun and interesting maybe I will play with this for a little while.

I don't know what do you think of that?

It might be like an insight you know.

So I believe that I'm able to see two kinds of thinking here which one thinking is more of a fear-based thinking how are other people perceiving me why did that happen to me what will happen to me it is you can sense the fear here but the other kind of thinking is more of an insight that is coming from presence that is coming from the present moment.

So if I give an example of this is that when I'm walking when I'm more connected to nature when I'm more in the present moment suddenly this thought or this insight would arise from somewhere deep within me you know not based out of my fear but maybe there's some deep level which you can call intuition or whatever it is that thought is arising from there so that is how I think now I am able to segregate between these two kinds of thoughts.

What happens to you when you are like let's take let's say taking a walk in nature or you know when you are just with yourself trying being in the moment do you get this experience or do you have such experiences that you have thoughts but then you also have this idea of being in the moment?

Yes but I'm relating to what you were just saying about there being once you have kind of put yourself in a context of having enough like space and stillness then it's like you can maybe tap into this other layer where these things just come like rushing up to the surface and it's so clear and it makes so much sense it's like then there's just like this bounty of ideas you know like oh yeah like well that would be cool where did that even come from but and maybe it's you have to transcend this layer of like what you said fear-based or self-conscious thinking in some way to allow it's like I'm envisioning like that stuff being moved to the side and then there's all this at your core that just comes rushing up and then you're like then you're aware of it all.

Yeah it makes I'm actually doing a master class right now if you're familiar with the master class series and so I'm doing a master class with this author Neil Gaiman right now I just try to do a bunch of different ones with different kinds of people in different careers if they if just their style speaks to me and then I think it's cool to see it from all these different avenues maybe something that ties us all together but he said something really kind of cool I thought which was he had this term the compost heap and so we all have our own compost heap and like when you're learning new things and like a conversation like this or experiences like research or whatever it might be you're anything you take in that is new it's like you're contributing a new piece to this compost heap that is like churning inside of you and like and growing and manifesting and then I'm sort of seeing this like what we're talking about as a clearing of debris on top of the compost heap and then comes out like you know plants or something that has arise just based on all these different things that you've put in over time and they've been combining together but you needed to allow enough unselfconscious space for them to come up to the surface.

Yeah yeah no that's a wonderful idea and you just mentioned masterclass and it is so ironic that just yesterday I was thinking of doing the masterclass of Malcolm Gladwell I think he's also I did that Yeah you did that that's my intention so it's funny that you mentioned it today yeah and it's a I think it's a good idea of compost heap it's a new way of looking at things that we have interaction so many interactions with people and then this compost heap is building and then we really need to have that time and space to let that plant grow from that heap.

One thing I'm wondering is that the insight that we get in that moment the plant that he's talking about does it only come from external experiences or is it that it also arises from something deeper from within the organism which might not already be existing so that makes me think of new inventions new discoveries or new ideas which might not already be existing in that space so my question is where are those ideas arising from?

And I'm just remembering him talking about this because it's like all of these things all these experiences are combining in you in some way that is totally unique relative to anyone else's combination of a compost heap which is like your interactions with people the things that you've learned the experiences you've had and so they can potentially combine in a way that is new and like you've you've put pieces together that you know things that already exist externally but then they come within you in this in this new way because you were able to have that you know constellation of connections that just enabled for this thing to pop up in only the way that it could pop up in you yeah but then I'm also I was wondering as you were talking there like maybe what is there regardless of any sort of external influence like if you were to get down to something that just simply exists and has existed inside of you always and I was about to use the word independent I wonder what I wonder what you would think about that because I'm wondering because that's that's sort of implying that there's some separation that there's some like unique elements to you that makes you different from the world around you if there was to be some like independent source I don't know what do you think about that yeah I think it is more of this actually this is you mentioning this term independent reminds me of Carl Jung's concept of the collective unconscious you know in which maybe there is this connection of our consciousness at the you know unconscious level between many of us where there are certain ideas which are lying in a field in the field of awareness so if we can if I can you know give an analogy so let's say there is this cloud drive where there is all that wisdom and we are somehow connected to that cloud drive and we are downloading ideas from that cloud drive so even for people who are like remotely connected you know who maybe let's say I am here I am sitting here in Canada someone who is in India or someone who is in the other part of the world in Australia we are kind of getting similar ideas about spirituality you know although we might be two of us did not have that interaction but our ideas about spirituality our experiences in meditation are similar so where is that similarity coming from so this brings me to the idea of this collective unconscious and this makes me question whether any ideas any idea is actually unique or is it already there in the collective what is making this made me think of of like the past meditation or insight meditation just my understanding of it is that you essentially if you continue with this sort of practice and you do stay with it long enough that you will just inevitably get to basic insights that are part of the core existential human experience maybe beyond human but that would that that would then inform like people in any context as long as they dedicated this type of energy of like becoming and maybe it would look very different in different cultural context but they all maybe are doing the same thing of like looking internally staying with it long enough and then once you do that you get to a certain level of oh like this is existence and then based on your particular cultural situation and language then it informs like maybe stories about it that explain this thing or different ways of talking about it different rituals to like support that thing how familiar are you with that notion yeah i think i i can totally resonate with that because i can see that how in different traditions this base idea of meditation or spirituality or this deeper experience that people have in meditation they are all the same but it's just that we are using different terminologies different languages as you said different rituals this also reminds me of the different prophets who are there in different religions you know someone like a jesus or someone like a buddha maybe going through the same spiritual deep experiences but then in a different way because of the language or the cultural context of that this also reminds me of how a lot of these experiences are similar for a lot of people if we take the example of near-death experiences you know you would you would see that a lot of people have very similar experiences in that sense that they experience this expansion of consciousness they would experience this deep connection with a source of light which someone would call god which someone would call you know the collective consciousness which someone would call by some other name someone would call it jesus so although these experiences if you look at these experiences you will see that they are almost the same is that we are describing it in a different way so which seems similar even beyond near-death experiences to like the description of you know what you might call mystical experiences yeah just feeling into you know directly into a connection with something that is beyond your separate self identity and even experiencing light like i've it's not quite something that i have experienced myself but i've i've heard of like the experience of just seeing everything as light and that like maybe that is sort of the core substance that informs everything and that it's turned into these different gradations of light that you see and experience and feel yeah yeah i think uh it really this makes me question that whether actually the thought even the thoughts that we are getting those are unique or those are actually influenced by someone through this field of you know collective unconscious or maybe even this idea of this light that we have maybe it was an idea just in someone's mind first and because that person got that idea and because we are connected through this collective unconscious with that person we also started getting that idea of light and now everybody is talking about like yeah what what is what do you think about this uh maybe underlying base uh you know this connected consciousness of people which might be influencing the thoughts that we have as a society today i guess it just feels right to me um and i guess maybe the closer that and i could be deluded in thinking this but like the closer i feel like i get to those core things or just that core experience maybe the more i feel able to kind of just recognize it in someone else as well and maybe in everyone and like connect very directly to that thing in a very intimate way like i feel that about you you know like there's something that's just very familiar and even still we've we we've never met in person and we've only known each other for a short period of time but even from the first time we talked it was like you know dive right into just like as deep or intimate as you could probably be with somebody and i see that as just like maybe feeling that whatever that is i like the i like the term the current like feeling that in yourself and then kind of like witnessing it in someone else and then it's just such a familiar open and playful feeling yeah yeah but and i was thinking like one so one particular cultural lens of that basic stuff like staying with with the buddhist lens um and like and the three marks of existence like are you familiar with that notion so it's there's and i believe that's kind of what you essentially get to if you stay with like an insight meditation practice you just see these and feel them very clearly and then that informs what i think might be called enlightenment you just live in an quote unquote enlightened way based on very directly seeing and feeling these these basic marks of existence or these basic truths and so the first one is impermanence like really having a felt sense of impermanence the second one is suffering um or like dukkha or however you say that particular word so it's like the feeling that suffering is a is just an essential and inherent part of being a human or you might call it dissatisfaction or like maybe restlessness or something like that that's just the basic truth and then the third one is no self so the the understanding and the feeling that i am not a separate uh being from other people and from my experience that there is actually no separate self anywhere to be found and that that is an illusion so that like if you stayed long enough i guess with this stillness that you would become clearly aware that of of the fact of impermanence and the fact of suffering and the fact of no self and then that would inform maybe uh i don't know what that would inform i guess i'm thinking it would inform a very free way of living or existing i don't know what do you think about that as i share it with you yeah yeah like you know i've heard these uh terms before in my own experiences in my own you know the buddhist retreats that i attended and one thing that really clicked with me is that all these these three marks that you're talking about if we kind of deeply understand these that what you know buddha actually means by then then we can start having that those experiences which are you know you might feel very similar in other people who are also learning about these marks so someone who is meditating on these three aspects of buddhism and if i'm also meditating on these three aspects of buddhism then i would start sensing the similarity in the other person you know as you said the current or the energy that okay i am going through this experience and this person is also going through that experience and now i'm kind of feeling that similarity so i think this uh the way you mentioned the uh the current that you felt you know the energy that you felt the similarity that was my same feeling after you know talking to you and uh having this conversation for you and i realize that there are certain things and maybe these are the three marks of buddhism that you're talking about that we have gone through and that is also a factor in bringing this similarity in our conversation it's also about i think uh kind of having that feeling oh you are my bro you have been through that yeah right this feeling of similarity comes from there as well it's really interesting there's something that i've thought about with regard to those three marks and maybe this kind of maybe relates to something we were talking about before we so just for someone listening to this sakkab and i will get on a call and we'll often just kind of talk for a little while about stuff and then eventually be like all right you want to do the the recording now and move into that and so this i'm not even sure where i'm going yet but it feels maybe related to something we were talking about before we started recording today so we'll see but in terms of these three marks of existence so say that that is something that's like at the core of human experience and has been described through the buddhist lens in that way and maybe could be described in a variety of other ways but it's maybe talking about the same basic experience something i was thinking was so if you look at suffering and no self i've kind of thought of it as like maybe just as people that have the capacity to think and experience things conceptually and like predict the future that we inevitably identify as a self like as a separate self person and and that to me is suffering and it's like that is like maybe a part of the wavelength it's also this really kind of cool experience that we are able to have as humans it's like really powerful but maybe it inevitably leads to a dissatisfied experience of suffering because we're attaching to something that is actually an illusion in the first place so this like we are inevitably identifying as humans when we interact in the world we have jobs we have friendships and these kind of things you sort of just you implicitly play a role of me charles as separate from you saket and and then maybe that leads to our suffering in life and then maybe if you could see on the other side of the wavelength is potentially the awareness of no self that i am actually no one separate from you and how incredibly relieving that can be of all of the suffering that a self-identity causes yeah but then also at the same time maybe you can never actually like stay in that place of no self like what is it what would it mean to remain there or to live there it's like it's sort of potentially to lose existence like and this is kind of what we were talking about a little bit some of the existential fear and the questions that come from maybe really looking deeply at what it is like to to have consciousness or to experience this life and that sometimes that could be a scary and even sad place to be to like look at it directly and that to me is like the other side of you know feeling all the liberation of of no longer identify with the self but then maybe like the self that is still there being like what the hell is is any of this actually and like am i actually not even real in the first place and i see this too kind of like you know going back and forth and that and that maybe to have these moments of no self is to live in a way that feels more and more free in this world and is less and less bound by the concepts and the constructs and the rules of society because you see through them and they don't actually mean anything but then there's also like maybe the sadness and even depression or like fear of well what do i even do if if i am seeing through these these constructs and then i see the third one impermanence as like the way that this wavelength just kind of inevitably maybe goes back and forth like you you can't really stay i mean maybe you could stay in one or the other but that's kind of how i've made sense of them visually in my mind like you just you're on this journey of going back and forth between self and no self and then the no self can give you much more liberation and you come back to kind of being yourself but in a more free way and then it's just this like back and forth kind of thing yeah something i thought i haven't really articulated so it's nice to be able to try to piece it together and share it with you there yeah and i think this this reminds me of something and there was this person i don't actually remember the name of the person but there is this story in the buddhist circles who was telling and they were telling about this person who became enlightened and there was this monk who became enlightened and this monk was experiencing that state of no self you know and would stay in that experience but it became really difficult for that monk to function in this world you know to stay in that body to uh to move around with that body or to even have normal conversations with people or to even you know just live this life because now there is this dilemma of either staying in that state of no self or living this life so they used to say that okay so what he did was eventually he he created an attachment to food so because food then was something that would bring him back to his body otherwise just be not in his body you know he will just experience that freedom but he kind of we created that attachment to food which will bring him back to the body and then he will start experiencing himself as this self again who is attached to food it's almost like you need some attachment or something like that to hold on to something yeah yeah so this i think in uh brings this i could see how these two ideas are related of attachment and in this idea of no self that to experience yourself you will have to have certain kind of an attachment but when you don't when you have just left all your attachments you can then experience that state of no self yeah thanks for for sharing that with me i've never heard that before and it felt kind of comforting to a degree because it's an experience i think i relate with okay there are these moments of feeling kind of just like naked like i said before sort of naked to raw consciousness which is like i mean really amazing and awe-inspiring but also like a little terrifying yeah and i've i connect with this notion of coming back to something as basic as food like okay this is this is it and i was i was talking with a friend of mine recently um maybe i shared this with you before but about the the term sensual living and that that is like maybe an answer to this these existential questions because all of that is still existing it's thought-based like it's still this like self-conscious thought level where i'm wondering what does it even mean dot dot dot like those are that's verbal thought about my experience and so an answer like being just coming back to like what is actually in my present i can feel my hands i can feel my feet do i have to go to the bathroom no uh am i hungry not really uh there's a chair that i'm sitting on and like as simple as that is like maybe that is like a really profound answer to like any question in life like just again and again just keep coming back to this experience i mean i think of that um i think it's in the zen world and maybe i've shared this with you before you're you've heard of it before but there's so there's like a student of uh of some certain teacher of zen and he comes to this other teacher of zen and he's he's telling this other teacher about his teacher he's like oh my teacher's amazing he does all these miracles he's he can walk on water and he had all these incredible things that he does and like what what do you do in this very sort of incredulous questioning way and then this teacher is like my miracle is that when i'm hungry i eat and when i'm tired i sleep and and that's it and i kind of love that notion or that way of living and that simplification like because it it's so easy to get so complicated in the thinking mind about things and then to come back to wow that really is like a miracle that my body knows when it wants fuel to keep to to actually make the body and to keep moving and it knows when it's time to rest and like recover and and i'm not making any of that happen like i just am all of that and i can be just in tune with it and that can be the answer to like any question or worry or fear yeah yeah this notion of just experiencing because again when we have and as we were discussing before this session about the existential questions you know that who am i where am i why am i even there where do i come from where do i go so all these questions are again kind of thoughts that we get entangled in rather than experiencing what is you know experiencing what is there so maybe the answer lies just right there if we start experiencing that in the present moment maybe there is an answer there but because we are not experiencing that we are kind of worrying that you know why am i here what is this so we are just again in that trap of thoughts and not in the experience right and we're looking at it with like basic assumptions already there yeah like it makes me think of something alan watts said one time which is the biggest trick they ever played on us was that they convinced us that things are supposed to make sense right so i like because then you you can even let go of some very basic assumptions that we hold about things yeah and that's that's the hard one because people really want to make sense you know we all want to make sense of what's going around us and it not making sense it's kind of a scary place to be in and that is where we come up with all these ideas that you know i have this purpose in my life this is the purpose of my life this is the meaning of my life this is why i'm here and then we start doing things but if we really come to this point in which a lot of spiritual teachers and sticks talk about when they were asked that what is the purpose of this life and they said that there is no purpose right then it it actually looks something as a very scary place to be where there is no purpose but again that when we come to the experience of it it becomes something really beautiful you know just being and flowing with life and the way of a flower is just being and not having any purpose not having any meaning not meaning for what's happening right literally we are just being and not having any purpose and not having any sense of anything yeah and i guess another way to say that it would just be that the meaning of life is to live yeah and nothing beyond that there's a quote one of my favorite quotes from kirkegaard that goes life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced yeah but we maybe are really ingrained programmed with this notion that life is something to be one yeah and maybe if you build your life up so much on that idea it might become harder and harder to embrace something like all of that is is bullshit to some degree and like it's just about like this experience and and the more you're attached to that idea the more you're missing out on these precious moments that you have to just experience this crazy thing that we're that's happening right now yeah yeah that that also brings me to the importance of meditation of just experiencing within yourself rather than thinking about it or talking to someone about it or you know taking someone else's idea about what is the meaning of life just going within and experiencing it i have another i'm so full of like quotes and things like that and that's wonderful it's in it's in my they're all in my compost heap you know it's it's so fun to have an avenue like this to share them in so many parts of my life i am somewhat i just receive a lot and i love doing that and i like listen and and take in and i'm generally really quiet but then i notice in certain contexts with certain people like yourself i just like i'm ready to explode with stuff i'm like oh i got this and this and this and this and this but it's it's like a real pleasure to really well yeah so it was lovely to listen so what is the another one so the the another one um i can't remember who said it but it's related just to what you were saying about meditation and it's very limited in terms of talking about it or like hearing someone else's experience or getting like okay what am i supposed to be getting from it like you just it's based on the experience itself and the quote goes something like how relevant is another's description of the taste of honey when your mouth is full of it which i just love that image too like your your mouth is full of honey and yet you're like listening to someone else like what is this what does honey taste like really no tell me though i need to have like a grasp on it but your mouth is full of it at the same time and that's it yeah i think a lot of us don't even realize that our mouth is full of it that is the main problem right we are always coming from that place of lack of thinking that okay that person because that person is able to meditate so that's why that person can tell me but somehow i am not able to meditate so i don't i cannot have that experience so i think the first thing to um realize is that that that honey is within us it's just that we need to realize that it's within yeah we're just full of it yeah yeah but it's really insecure because no one can tell you no one can tell you that that's it no one can give you the proof of it it's only felt and so it makes sense that we we search for it for someone to just tell me like is this it and yeah yeah yeah i think it's it makes sense to uh for a lot of people to know that how can we find that within ourselves you know because a lot of things we uh we have it in us but it's that we don't know how to find it in ourselves so uh what i realized eventually and initially i was uh just of this idea that okay we don't need knowledge we don't need wisdom we just need to meditate but eventually i realized that knowledge and wisdom brings you to the gateway of meditation you know it helps you to get to the gateway of meditation it guides you to to know okay the you can find it in yourself so from there it is your own journey but uh only when i learn that what is the value of meditation only when i learn what is someone else's experience can i also have the courage to go within my own experience so i think we have mentioned meditation a lot maybe let's you know in this session with the meditation what do you think sounds great yeah great so okay let's meditate and i would request the listeners to get into their comfortable position we always end our sessions with a short meditation so you can get into that comfortable position and gradually close your eyes and as you close your eyes you can bring your awareness to your body your body sitting here in the present moment just check how your head feels in the present moment just with your awareness gently relax your head relax your neck relax your shoulders your chest your abdomen relax your arms and hands your back your pelvis relax your thighs your knees and relaxing your calves and your feet feel your body becoming lighter with relaxation just be here and now totally enjoying this present moment having the freedom to enjoy this moment totally you don't have to do anything just be here just see how wonderful it is to have this opportunity to be here and to enjoy this very beautiful moment now maybe asking this question to yourself and who is enjoying this moment who is enjoying this moment having been aware of this awareness which is enjoying this moment feeling this awareness which is just being here in this moment with that you can gradually bring your awareness back to your body to your surroundings feeling your presence in your surroundings feeling the weight of your body on the couch or on the chair moving your hands and feet gradually coming out of this meditation thank you thank you thank you for the wonderful time today i'll see you soon see you take care

Reviews

Namaste. Thank you Saqib and Charles for this recording. Good way to start my weekend!! Lots of love and blessings 🙏🏻

Herb Alpert's "A Taste of Honey" now plays like an ear worm in my head. 🍯🐝🌹
Thanks guys... Love to eavesdrop.

Thank you so so so so... so so... (lol) much for recording this conversation and putting it on here for others to hear. If I tried to explain why or how much I needed to hear it right now this review would become way too long ☺️. 🤍🙏🤍