Feeling Feelings With Ann Hince

Professional speaker, author & spiritual teacher Ann Hince and I chat about various topics surrounding feelings, awareness, healing and the body including EFT, feeling feelings, fear, avoidance, meditation, blockages, trauma, pain, tension, release, (subtle) internal body sensations, insight, fascia, posture, truth, memory, weeping, triggers, memory, law of attraction as evolutionary tool, observation and the depth of life

Transcript

The easiest way.

Fullness,

Welcome.

This is Josh DePolt from integratedpresence.

Com.

Today I have Anne Hintz with me.

And this is how you say your last name,

Right Hintz?

It is,

Yes,

Rhymes with Prince.

So again,

Like the last interview I did,

Um,

I'm just going to throw it over to Anne here to introduce herself and talk a little bit about her life and story and her work.

And since this is because we,

We really haven't really got to know each other all that well,

And it will be kind of fresh and new for me to hear what she has to say,

Um,

To me on the show and to all of you who are listening.

So Anne.

Hi.

Yeah.

Right.

I mean,

I,

It's,

I know it's pretty vague and kind of a,

Um,

You know,

Not much guidance given here,

But you'll see pretty quick how we connect the different type of work that we do in the similarities.

Yes,

Absolutely.

Okay.

So I,

Um,

I'm English.

I was born in England.

I live in California.

Um,

I'm a mom,

I'm a wife.

I've been a stay at home mom for years.

I was a software engineer,

But at this point,

I've done a lot of inner work and have developed some abilities that I didn't know were possible 10 or so years ago.

So I've been able to put my awareness inside my body and shift my skull bones into more of an aligned position.

And I've grown half an inch as a half as a 55 year old,

Which I think is pretty unusual.

I've not heard of that before.

So I want people to know that this is possible and I want people to know how to do it.

All right.

So,

Well,

I mean,

I'm being led perfectly here.

How did you do that?

Okay.

Well,

It was a long process.

Um,

So I had a lot of trauma in childhood,

You know,

A lot of us do.

Um,

I was born with my right foot up against my right shin.

So the first six weeks of life,

I had physical therapy.

Then I was adopted into a family that had just experienced a trauma because they had adopted an older boy,

A boy who they'd had for two years.

Then they adopted another little girl and they had her for six months.

And then the birth mother changed her mind and took her away again.

And I was the replacement into the family for that daughter,

But they had just lost.

So that in itself,

I know with subconscious trauma and then,

You know,

Other things happen,

We moved around the world as a nine-year-old,

We lived in Hong Kong and I was sent to boarding school in England and a boys boarding school.

I was the first girl boarder at a boys boarding school.

So I was teased horrifically for two years.

And then in my teenage years,

Both parents became alcoholics.

My dad had anger issues.

I learned how to walk an eggshell.

So I didn't disturb anything.

And when I was 19,

I woke up one morning and found my mother dead in the bathroom.

So that was kind of like the big trauma and I didn't know how to deal with it.

I don't think a lot of us do.

I just did the same thing I had always done.

And that was just suppressed or repress all those feelings and just carried on with life.

So I moved out to California when I was 21,

Was a software engineer,

Had a family,

And it wasn't until I was in my late thirties.

I was a stay-at-home mom with two young boys.

And I had a small business altercation with a couple of other mothers.

And my mind just span out of control.

It just went over and over what had happened because they thought I'd done something wrong.

I didn't think I'd done something wrong,

But my mind wouldn't let it go.

And I couldn't sleep for a couple of days.

And that's when I realized,

Oh,

I think there's something maybe from childhood that I haven't looked at yet that I need to do something with.

So it was around that timeframe,

Little bit after that,

That I went to a doctor's appointment.

He was a holistic physician and he recognized that I was more stressed than I should be.

And he asked me on a scale of zero through 10,

How stressed I was.

And it was an eight.

And then he asked me why.

And it was that question that made me realize it was finding my mother,

Which was now two decades earlier because the tears were still just under the surface.

So he used this technique with me.

It's called EFT,

Short for emotional freedom technique.

It's also called tapping.

So he tapped with me for about 15 minutes about my mother's death.

And I walked away from that appointment,

Being able to tell the story of her death in my mind to myself without the tears there anymore.

And that was the first time I realized that we store the memories and the emotions physically in our body,

And we can just let them go.

So to me,

That was eye-opening.

Have you ever heard of EFT?

I have.

That is an amazing story and outcome too.

Denny,

You and I sometimes teach a thing on insight timer and it's a chi bootcamp and part of it involves meridian tapping.

I guess that's one of the ways he calls it.

So along different meridians,

There'll be different tapping points.

And is this as well now,

It seems like the emotional freedom technique involves a cycle,

A huge psychological element to that as well.

Not just,

Just the physicality thing.

Is that correct?

Or.

Well,

The psychological element would be that we're bringing words into it.

We're talking things through,

But only the reason we're doing that is to bring the emotions into the body,

Right?

To bring the memories back into the body.

And we're tapping then to let the emotion or the stuck energy out of the body.

So there's kind of two aspects to it.

If you're already feeling really emotional about something,

You don't even need to use words,

Right?

Just the tapping itself will allow the energy to flow out of the body.

And while I was sitting this morning,

I was,

This came to me that I was thinking,

You know,

Well,

How does that technique work?

And just tapping on a part of the body to me is a wild guess.

I have no idea if this is the case or not,

But it's almost like a signal to say,

Okay,

Something's happening to your body.

And when,

When some kind of touch is happening to your body,

You can now feel the body,

Right?

And so it's kind of like a,

Not a gross or,

Or,

Um,

Physical prompting to actually feel the body,

Right?

Feel within the body,

Even though it's on a surface level.

So it's almost like a signal to tune into that.

And then eventually as a,

And knows,

If I may say that,

That eventually we will,

We will develop this ability to feel deeper and deeper,

More subtle and subtle layers that it's not,

It's no longer even necessary sometimes to do that,

To be able to bring our awareness inside the body and to feel deeply inside the body.

I think that,

I think the tapping is working through the nervous system.

It's actually,

We're used to feeling some way when we're thinking some thought or having a memory of something,

Our nervous system is working in the way it's always worked in the past.

And we're just kind of giving it an interrupt.

We're stopping it,

Doing feeling that way or feeling those emotions.

And it's just allowing it to release.

And now I believe it's working at the level through the meridians,

But in through the connective tissue.

And it's just releasing storage tension deep inside,

Not necessarily on the surface.

I mean,

It could be deep inside the body.

Yeah.

And it's,

It's,

It's wild how we don't really,

Well,

You know,

Some people more empathic,

They really don't have much of a choice to feel right.

But then some people are so cut off from their feelings that it's like,

There's only through,

I guess,

You know,

I can't speak for everybody.

And actually in some instances,

Some extreme things have to happen in life for them to be able to,

You know,

Feel their body in certain places.

I know,

I watched a little video kind of getting off track of the,

The intro here,

But I watched one of Ant's videos about,

Where the heck was I going?

Well,

Maybe I'll come back to that.

Wow.

Brain fart here.

So let's,

Let's come back around to this going back to the growing,

Right.

Growing in your old age,

Old age,

These I'm old too.

Wow.

Well,

Let's go back to what you were just saying about some of us aren't aware right.

We can't feel.

And that's where I was.

I could not feel that's why EFT for me was such a great tool because I was not aware of how I felt.

Although in some levels I would have said that I was kind of empathic,

At least as a child,

But I think I just added so many layers of resistance on top of that,

That I just didn't know how I felt.

If someone asked me,

How are you feeling today?

And I was,

I would always say I'm fine because I didn't really know how I felt.

So that's what EFT did for me.

So I actually didn't necessarily trust it after that one visit with the doctor.

So I went home after that appointment and I learned how to do it because it's available for free online.

The person who developed it,

Gary Craig gave it away to the world for free.

So I learned how to do it.

And then I had a really good example,

A test case with it,

Because I had a 17 year old cat at home who was failing.

His kidneys were failing and we were told he needed a daily saline shot.

So I had to give him this injection daily.

So the first time I gave it to him,

My hand was just shaking so much.

I was so afraid of giving him this shot of hurting him.

So I thought,

Okay,

Well,

I'm going to tap about this.

So I did,

I tapped about all the different aspects of it.

So I tapped about my fear of giving him the shot,

My fear of hurting him,

About my,

The physical aspect of my hand shaking and about all my memories from injections,

Because I'd had many over my lifetime.

And the next day,

When I gave him the shot,

The needle just slid right in.

All that fear that had been inside of me had gone.

So that's when I realized that freedom is on the other side.

I wanted to get beyond that fear and sit in that place of peace.

And that's when I realized how deceptively powerful the technique was.

And so I started using it,

Started using it every day,

Started noticing when I was emotional,

Which in itself for me was a hard thing.

So maybe I would only notice once a day and then I would tap.

And then as time went on,

I became more aware of when I was becoming emotional and then I could tap then.

And I found I was becoming more peaceful,

Less reactionary,

And I wanted more.

So I knew there was a technique you could use where you wrote down every emotional memory or every trauma from childhood.

I use every emotional memory because there were more of those than I would consider traumas.

And I tap through one each night for about an hour to an hour and a half each night until I'd gone through them all.

And I found myself becoming much more peaceful.

And I remember opening the door one day and actually saying to myself,

Feels like I'm living in a different reality because my mind,

Which used to be so busy and so critical,

Was not anymore.

It was more peaceful.

It wasn't criticizing me.

It wasn't judging other people.

And it was so nice.

And I can attest to that through meditation.

And I now remember what I was going to say.

Before I do that,

Though,

I want to,

You said,

Deceptively powerful.

And that really stuck out to me.

I guess I'm not seeing the deceit part of it.

It doesn't look like it's doing much.

It doesn't seem like it's doing much.

Yeah,

But it is.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so this part of Anne's,

One of Anne's videos was about tapping in with awareness to this void space,

Like that where you couldn't feel anything in the body,

Right?

And keeping the attention through concentration on that.

And then when the time was right,

It opened up to,

I think you said something like a whole new level of pain that was there or you,

It was,

It wasn't actually a void.

It was actually being a blockage,

Right?

Blocked off from pain.

Right.

It was resistance.

Yes.

Resistance.

Okay.

And that's what in my meditation practice.

And I guess I can transition a little bit into this now.

One of the questions Anne has when prepping a host is so you don't meditate,

You know,

Or why don't you meditate kind of thing.

And we were talking a little bit about this before the show.

And,

And I mentioned that,

Well,

What Anne does in addition to EFT sounds a lot to me like meditation.

It really depends on how we define meditation.

Now,

If we're just talking about sitting in a formal,

Like Lotus pose,

Eyes closed on a cushion and doing,

You know,

Trying to calm your mind,

Right?

That's not what that's not the type of meditation and does at all.

Right.

So so we can talk a little bit about that,

But to,

To maybe validate or have some real relation here in my formal practice,

I've been working with this blockage in my nose and it goes in through my ear canal and it will,

It will open up and then we'll close,

It'll open and close.

So I won't be able to breathe through the right nostril.

The ear feels a little bit clogged sometimes,

But sometimes it opens up and yeah,

It's,

It's interesting.

I would maybe get Anne's take on how to work with something like that possibly.

And,

And there,

And she also talks about how different things are linked.

So there could be one part of the body that's linked to another part of the body,

Right.

And there's an interplay or one seems to be affected by the other,

Or there's some kind of interrelationship between two different portions of the body.

So a lot of stuff thrown out there.

Absolutely.

It's,

It's all connected.

So yeah,

So that's,

You're being called the attention,

Your nose is calling your attention,

Right?

That's where you can feel something.

Doesn't necessarily mean that's where the blockage and the connective tissue is.

It might be somewhere else,

But you're being called to the nose.

So that's where you would put your attention.

So in terms of this work that I do,

There would be different levels that you could work on that.

You could work on that with EFT.

And I've seen experiences of people working with blockages in those noses that have actually been done through surgery.

The blockage was there,

And they could still release it.

So with that,

You would work with the words,

Right?

The words would be all the different aspects of that.

Like when it first happened,

What you notice that time when it first happened and how you feel about it,

Your emotions about it,

How it feels physically,

All those aspects would be things that you could work on with tapping with EFT.

So let's go on to the second part of my story now,

Because,

And then there will be another level to work on,

Which is a deeper level of awareness.

So as I worked with EFT,

I found that my awareness expanded.

So I started to become aware of my emotions more during the day.

I was aware of how I was emotionally feeling,

But then I became aware of the physical sensations underneath the emotions,

Which is a deeper level of awareness.

So we use the words for emotions like sadness or anger or frustration,

But what we're really describing is how we're feeling,

Where we're holding our tension,

Right?

Because we can see from a distance when someone's angry by the way they're holding themselves.

So once we become aware of those physical sensations,

We can work then at this deeper level.

So with me,

I was often in fear and with fear,

I could feel tension in my solar plexus in my stomach area.

Hadn't been aware of that at earlier levels,

But now I'm aware of this tension that I hold when I'm feeling fear.

And now at this point,

I didn't want to use EFT as much.

I was in a group at the time and the guy said,

He actually said,

You don't need to meditate.

It's all about feeling your feelings.

But at the time I didn't know what he meant because I didn't know what my feelings were.

But at this point I've done enough tapping.

I was aware of my feelings.

So I wanted to try it.

It's like,

What did he mean by feel my feelings?

What does that mean?

So I thought,

Okay,

I'm going to do this.

I'm going to try and feel them.

So it was tension in my stomach.

And how do I feel that?

Because when I would take a deep breath or when I would move,

I would lose it.

I couldn't focus on it.

So what I found I had to do would actually hold myself like a statue,

Stop moving and stop breathing.

I wouldn't take a deep breath.

I would just stop breathing where I was in my breath when I could feel that fear sitting in my stomach.

And then I would just,

I'm just trying to feel the fear,

Feel the fear,

Feel the feelings,

That tension in my stomach.

And I was so used to not feeling it.

I was so used to suppressing it.

It was really hard to feel it.

So I would talk to it.

I would say,

I can feel you fear.

I can feel this tension sitting in my stomach.

I just want to feel you.

I want to allow you to be felt.

I want to acknowledge you and it's okay to be there.

It's okay to be felt.

And then I would find that I needed to take a deep breath or I would feel a release.

And then I needed to take a deep breath.

So I would feel it.

It would shift.

And then I would think the thought again,

Bring that fear back into my body,

Which is what we're doing with EFT.

But now we're doing at a deeper level,

Feel it again,

Hold myself like a statue until there is a release.

And then I would do it again.

I would do it again and again with the same fearful thought until there was no longer any fear underneath it.

And then the thought is free.

It just felt different.

So I would just do this over and over again.

I call it feeling your feelings.

It's such an obvious name,

But it's not easy to do,

Especially for people who have suppressed for so long.

So I would do this then over and over each day,

Just notice those thoughts that had emotions and feel them.

And now at night,

Instead of working through my childhood,

I would actually work on collective traumas like 9-11 or Fukushima,

Those big traumas that we all have our own personal experience of.

I would feel all those sensations in my body and just allow them and they would dissipate.

And I would just do this over and over again.

So that's the next step that I took that I felt.

So that's what you could do with your nose.

You can actually feel those sensations in the nose and the sinus and allow them to be and then allow it to dissipate over and over and over again and see what shifts because at that point,

The feeling might shift somewhere else.

You might,

I think of it like cutting a rope,

Like a rope,

If you bend it over,

So it's under tension,

You'll release with a knife,

You cut through it with a knife,

You release one strand,

And then the tension is taken up by maybe two or three other strands,

But in a different place.

And so you just work through one after the other,

As your body calls your attention to it,

You focus on it,

You allow it,

And it will release.

So I just did that over and over again.

Beautiful.

You said so much there that I would like to touch on and start at the end there with,

It seems to go from,

It's a blockage,

Right?

So it's almost like I'm not able to breathe through there.

And so there is a type of feeling around there.

And then the mind will start spinning into,

Oh,

You know,

It shouldn't be like this.

Why is it not open yet?

I can't even breathe through my nose.

What's going on?

You know,

Just spiral spiral around and then it will open and then the blockage will go to the ear and then that will open and it'll go back to the nose a lot of times.

And,

And so in,

Yes,

But the feeling is like,

I'm not able to feel because it's blocked.

That's one of the things.

Another thing is that I wonder if I bring more energy,

If I'm giving my energy and attention to the blockage,

It almost seems like to amplify it.

So it's almost like I have to step back just a little bit and deal with more of the psychological part of it first and then go into,

Okay,

Well,

It's a blockage,

But there's still some kind of unpleasant feeling around it.

I need to,

To feel into that.

And like you said,

Allow it to be there,

You know,

Even if it was there the rest of my life,

Being okay with it,

Actually kind of give some space around it.

There's not so much pressure to have it fixed.

Right?

Right.

Absolutely.

So every step along the way,

It's about fully accepting the words.

Right.

So you said a lot of words there,

Right.

But it feels like a blockage and it's,

It's almost like it's frustrating that I can't breathe.

Right.

So all those words would be words that I would tap with,

With EFT to let the charge go and allow it to be okay.

But I feel frustrated that it feels like a blockage,

Right?

Just at each level,

Allow it to be okay.

So letting go of that frustration.

It's true.

And because it's already there or so,

I mean,

It's already there.

So why not allow it,

You know?

Right.

Because that's the resistance.

The resistance is the pushing away from it.

And once we fully allow it fully allowed,

That's when the shift happens.

See,

It's open now.

Yeah.

So this,

This,

This,

This feeling thing is a teacher.

I turned,

Anne on to,

I guess,

I don't,

I don't know if she heard of him before and I'm okay to name drop Matt con his,

One of the sayings is feel it to heal it.

And we're not feeling it to be sadistic or to,

You know,

To,

To get off on pain or anything like that.

It's an order to heal it.

Like what we're,

We're talking about.

Right.

Yeah.

So I'm trying to think of the other one now that you,

The,

The other part that you went on that I had something,

But it will come back if it's,

If it's needed to be said.

So I guess we can go my short-term memory,

Geez,

I don't know what's going on today.

So I guess we can come back around now to this,

This,

This growing in,

Sorry,

There's somebody walking on a roof over here.

They're walking on they're,

They're fixing a roof.

So it's a little distraction,

But growing at this stage of life that most people would say,

You're,

You're crazy.

That that's not possible.

What are you talking about?

You know,

But Anne has X-rays to prove this right on our YouTube channel.

And,

Uh,

The,

The spine is,

Is so visible,

The changes in the spine from before and after pictures.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

So there's one more step that I haven't talked about yet to let me talk about that.

So it was actually during this period of laying on the sofa at night,

Feeling that collective traumas that actually experienced Kundalini energy,

Which was an interesting thing.

I don't mention that normally,

But your audience might be open to that.

Um,

Lot of electrical work as I was releasing this resistance at a rapid,

Rapid speed,

Um,

That,

That electrical energy went back and forth for months,

But eventually it got to the place where,

As I released this energy on the inside,

There was tension on the inside.

I realized I can actually keep my awareness inside my body after the tension had released.

And the only way I kind of try to explain this is that imagine you have a toothache or stomachache or nose blockage,

Right?

You can feel that,

You know,

Where it is,

You can pinpoint it kind of with your mind,

But once the pain has gone,

Or the blockage is released,

It's not as easy to pinpoint it with your mind because it's gone.

And I found that I could keep my awareness inside.

And I didn't really know what I was doing at this point.

I'd never heard of it before.

Didn't know what it was,

But I was kind of just playing around.

And then I said,

Well,

Can I do it again?

So I would feel this tension,

Release it and found that I could keep my awareness back inside.

And so then I started playing.

Can I move it around?

Well,

I found that I could,

I could move my awareness around inside my body.

And I noticed that I could feel tension or no tension.

So I would focus on the tension.

I put my attention on the tension and hold my awareness there.

And then there would be a shift.

It would release.

So now I'm working instead of with the words with EFT,

Instead of with the emotions,

And instead of with the physical sensations,

Now I'm working inside the body directly on the tension.

And so I would just do it over and over again.

I would feel the tension.

I would feel a release.

I would put my awareness on it again,

And it would just release at a deeper and deeper level now,

Eventually,

And it took many months.

Eventually I could actually put my awareness inside my head.

And when I could put my awareness inside there,

I was became aware of massive amounts of forces pulling my body out of alignment and pain in my cheek that I could only focus on for a second or more,

Because it was so intense.

And I had lived with these forces and this pain for like 50 years at this point,

Without being aware of this tension on the inside.

So now I know that the forces of the connective tissue pushes on our body,

Puts on our body is just massive.

I think it's 200 pounds per square inch or something like that.

But to become aware of it was just amazing.

So I would just do what I'd already done.

I would focus on it,

Allow it to release and just do it over and over a little bit at a time.

And over time,

I could actually,

I actually started to feel and hear something release.

And again,

It was a little scary.

I didn't know what it was,

But I realized it was adhesions in the connective tissue that we're releasing and it sounded and felt like old fabric ripping.

So I knew I was kind of on a journey at this point and I was just releasing tension on the inside.

So it can't be a bad thing.

So I just kept doing it.

And it happens more and more all the time these days,

But over time I can actually feel my skull bones relax into what I know now is a more aligned position just from release of tension or dis-ease inside the connective tissue of the body.

And so I do have these X-rays now that show that my bones,

My eye sockets have aligned.

I didn't even know those bones would move.

My jaw,

Which was way off to the side is now more centered.

My neck,

I have scoliosis,

I think from being born with my right foot up against my right shin.

I think it twisted my whole body.

And that is relaxing now into a more aligned position.

And that would be why I have grown because I've actually relaxed.

And my neck,

All of this inner work from when I was able to put my awareness inside,

Whenever I release anything anywhere,

It always also releases in my neck or my head.

So I know as we release tension inside,

It actually kind of pulls the neck upwards.

And so grown half an inch.

Yeah.

I'd like to grow more.

I'd like to get to five foot five as a 55 year old.

I think that would be fun.

Lots of fives there,

Right?

Yeah.

And this is another thing we have in common too.

When I first started my meditation practice,

I had no idea really what I was doing.

So I would take a cushion off the couch and I would sit cross-legged on top of the cushion instead of putting my rear on the edge and hanging off.

So where you get a nice lift to have the hips higher than knees.

So then my hunched over,

And I think I didn't have full-blown scoliosis,

But it was,

They called it scoliosis in school.

So it was like a slight curvature of the spine.

So I could only sit there for like a,

Uh,

Probably a few minutes before I was realized that I was,

You know,

Bending over.

And so a lot of my practice early on in the first couple of years just became being aware of my posture and,

And,

And for a while putting more,

Um,

I guess effort into staying upright,

Not necessarily through,

Uh,

Forced,

Um,

Uh,

Holding muscles as much,

It's just having an awareness of being a more of an upright spine.

And then when I finally got meditation,

Uh,

Instruction on how to actually do this,

Then it's when,

Oh yeah,

There's a huge emphasis on relaxation.

And,

You know,

Like,

Like,

And so beautifully and eloquently puts it,

Um,

Very well-spoken on how to,

How she describes this,

My journey with this seems a little bit more vague and mysterious.

I love how clear and concise and well put and explained this can be and,

And how it works into your whole journey too.

Um,

So now,

And this will probably take us into the next thing here,

The connection between the physical and the spiritual,

Right?

You touched a little bit on Kundalini and,

You know,

There's,

Um,

It's still a little bit out of my wheelhouse,

Because there's just so many different types of energies in this specific one called Kundalini.

I haven't studied that much.

There is a bunch of different ideas on what it is,

What it isn't,

Various different types of Kundalini and things like that.

I'm fascinated by this,

But as far as me being able to speak with any kind of authority to it,

I can't do that right now.

But as far as the spiritual going into,

You know,

The,

The,

The physical and the spiritual,

This is right,

Because it's not this kind of thing where,

Oh,

Well,

Spirituality is one thing.

And then the physical body's another,

No,

It doesn't work like that.

Right.

Right.

I mean,

I don't have a lot to say on Kundalini either,

Other than the experience of it.

I know what it felt like,

And I know it was it because I could move this energy up and down my spine at will.

Um,

It was actually kind of fun.

I was,

I would play with it.

So,

Um,

But yes,

The spiritual.

So,

You know,

Once I was able to put my awareness inside my body,

I'm looking from somewhere to somewhere inside my body.

So when I'm doing that,

It's like,

I cannot be my body because I'm in two places at once.

I'm looking from somewhere to somewhere else inside.

So that was the point where I was like,

Okay,

I know I'm not my body.

I'm just inhabiting my body because I can see in different places inside.

So to me,

That was obvious once I got to that place.

And then I started trying to put my experience into the words that we hear from,

You know,

Different aspects of life.

So what I believe is that the soul is I'm looking through the connective tissue,

Right?

I believe that's where the soul,

Um,

Works through it.

It habits,

Inhabits,

Maybe the connective tissue of the body.

I know there's an electric component to connective tissue.

And I believe that that the adhesions in the connective tissue,

Which is just that trauma,

It's just the programming from childhood,

Those forms adhesions,

And that distorts the signal that we're picking up from spirits.

That's how our ego gets created.

That's why intuition,

We don't really know if it's true or not because it's distorted from those adhesions.

So I believe as we're releasing this tension in the body,

Releasing these adhesions,

Then our signal from spirit is going to come through,

Does come through much more easily.

And I believe we're actually freeing up the soul within the body.

And I suspect time will tell,

But I suspect once the soul is free in the body,

It will be happy to stay in the body.

Yeah.

I think over time we get tighter and tighter and eventually the soul is just so scrunched and so tight.

It doesn't want to stay anymore.

And we pass on.

And this goes to insight,

Right?

Because as these,

Uh,

Layers of trauma heal,

As,

Um,

What's in the way of awareness,

Relaxes and releases,

We gain more and more sensitivity and more and more awareness towards subtle and subtler and subtler,

Or is it more subtle,

Um,

Experiences and phenomena within our body too.

And this also reminds me of just breath,

Right?

That with,

Uh,

In,

In the in the Theravada teachings,

The teachings of the Buddha mindfulness,

The body,

He breaks it down in the,

To six different ways.

And the first one is awareness of breath.

And so there's some people,

I mean,

The breath for some people can be so subtle.

They don't even notice it hardly at all,

Even if they,

You know,

We'll spend time trying to focus on it,

Right.

Other times in deep meditation,

It becomes almost like this gross thing where it's,

It's,

It's like the predominant experience,

Uh,

In deep meditation is this breath.

And so people can notice it,

You know,

In through the nose,

Coolness on the in breath,

Warmness on the out breath can go through the naval passages can,

Um,

You can,

Some people can feel like a coolness and a warmth and a wetness in,

In through the Naval cavities and through the throat,

The chest can start,

Uh,

Feeling or noticing or seeing,

You know,

Some people see with their mind's eye,

The chest expanding and contracting down through,

Through the diaphragm.

That's the diaphragm will move the internal organs or the,

The,

The stomach,

Um,

Contracting,

Um,

Expanding and contracting.

And,

Um,

And then maybe a slight movement to the shoulders.

I mean,

So,

So these,

And then we can even go into like,

Um,

Um,

More perceptual things like,

Does it feel smooth like velvet or does it feel like sandpaper or the experience of the breath?

You know,

Um,

How's the energy of the breath?

Is it more,

Is it more brightening or is it more relaxing?

And,

You know,

Um,

So we that's,

I think that's enough for the breath,

But I mean,

It's,

It's a really profound thing.

And without going into what is the breath,

It's just like,

Well,

What is our experience of what we understand with it now in the body?

And so this helps,

Um,

Develop insight as well.

Uh,

Not,

Uh,

In addition to feeling the physical growth sensations throughout,

Um,

The,

In the entire body too,

And then how there can be a link,

Um,

And how they're interconnected in the,

The fascia thing,

It just blows my mind to how this seems to be like a more popular thing within the past,

What,

Maybe 10 or 20 years,

Something like that,

Even though it's like,

Um,

I think some aren't some people calling it like the Lord largest organ in the body,

Like it connects everything in the body.

And so,

You know,

Why was,

Why was this emphasis not put on it?

Um,

You know,

So did they not know about it?

I don't know what the deal is with that,

But so there's plenty of stuff there,

Um,

Around insight,

Uh,

Body related insight too.

Right.

So to me,

I'm,

To me,

The word insight,

I know we've used it in the past in terms of the mind,

In terms of picking up things.

To me,

I believe the original meaning of the word insight is being able to see inside,

Right.

Inward sight,

Because we can actually see inside of our bodies.

We can sense inside of our bodies.

So in my world,

I'm kind of shifting that emphasis because I don't believe anyone these days is talking about this form of insight.

Now,

Once we have this awareness at a deeper level inside of ourselves,

We can actually see that in other people too,

Right.

Cause as within,

So without is absolutely true,

Right?

So if I have this awareness of how I breathe or how I don't breathe,

Right,

How I stop breathing,

Um,

Perhaps if I'm tense,

I can see that in someone else,

Right?

So I can see,

I can sense when someone else is not necessarily telling their truth because they're holding their body in tension.

They're not breathing fully,

Deeply into their body.

When we tell the truth,

When it's our absolute truth,

We breathe deeply.

We sit deeply inside of our body,

But there are a couple of people I can think of in the collective these days that you can tell their voices like it's,

It's just in the top part of their lungs,

It's not sitting deeply in the body.

So they're not necessarily telling the truth.

It is fascinating too.

And it goes into deeper levels of energetic sensitivity and empathy,

Right?

Feeling what another feels,

Noticing how another is.

And because we have that sensitivity,

That sensing ability,

That sight,

Inner sight too.

And so Anne pointed out this quote that I did on a podcast recently,

And I'll just read this here too,

Because it goes into insight.

And actually,

I have another translation of it since it's so brief here.

Who knows,

Knows who knows,

Who knows,

Knows who doesn't know,

Who doesn't know,

Doesn't know who doesn't know,

Who doesn't know,

Doesn't know who knows.

And this comes from the Theragata stanza 61 sayings of the elder Vapa.

And this translation next is interesting because it uses the sight.

It's one who sees,

Sees who sees,

Sees who doesn't.

One who doesn't see,

Doesn't see who sees or who doesn't.

So yeah,

It's just you interchanging basically see and know,

Right?

And so that's,

That's a huge part of the path is I think this is a pah-ahk-sah-dah that says about seeing and knowing.

We see and know it for ourselves.

Right.

It's really interesting to be in the place of knowing,

Having been in the place of not knowing,

Right?

Because you know the difference.

So I have a really fun example that really kind of to me illustrates this from before COVID.

I had a tapping group and we'd meet once a week.

And at the beginning of the group,

We'd all sit in a semicircle,

Close our eyes,

And I would play just a series of chakra chimes.

So we're just hearing these chimes and then we would open our eyes and we would share our experiences.

Now there's a spectrum I now know of experiences.

So there's on one level of the spectrum,

Which is where I used to be.

There are people who would only hear the chimes with their ears.

That's it.

That's all they know.

Then there were some people who would hear the chimes with the ears,

But maybe they would feel some of those sound vibrations in different parts of their body.

They have a deeper level of awareness.

And then on the other end of the spectrum are people who will feel those sound vibrations throughout their body and their bones and their vistula.

Those people,

Which is where I am now,

Have a really deep level of awareness.

So this sharing allows the people who only hear with their ears to know there is this possibility of where they could get to that they didn't know existed before.

And the people on the other end of the spectrum now know there are people out there who they don't have the steps of awareness.

They're only hearing words.

So we can see that in society.

We can see that there are people who hear words and they believe that's the truth.

They don't know any difference.

They don't know there are people out there who feel whether something's the truth or not.

Who feel things deep inside because even just conversation,

People with that depth of awareness are picking up on so many levels that people who only hear the words are not picking up on.

Yeah,

So all of those phrases,

Sayings fit within that.

It's such a beautiful thing too.

And it even goes into this practice I love of feeling into the truth of something,

Right?

So we can deliberately even say,

Well,

You know,

We hear something,

But it just doesn't immediately,

It's kind of like this puzzling thing where we don't,

Well,

Maybe something's going on there that's just beyond the surface.

So we can bring our awareness to feeling into the truth of that.

But what I mean by that is we can ask a question about whatever it is and just drop that question into the body and feel into it.

How does that feel and using the body as a gauge and kind of a way of discernment,

You know?

But even to get to that,

You've got to have some level of awareness.

Absolutely.

There are people out there who have no awareness.

Yeah.

And they have no,

They don't want,

They don't know there's anything else out there and they have no desire to find it.

And that's,

I'm glad you brought that up as well because it is,

Right?

That this is very possible.

And I didn't know any of this stuff was possible either until I started listening to these meditation practitioners,

Right?

And they're talking about the things we talk about,

How all these different sensations can be felt throughout the body,

Right?

Like such a minute sensations where it can just feel like maybe like little pinpricks,

Just changing all throughout the body so rapidly.

And so there's some practitioners that go so deeply that it's really,

You can't keep track of all the different changing sensations that are going on throughout the body.

I mean,

It's just changing so rapidly that I mean,

If you just took like one or two seconds of that,

You could,

You could spend pages writing,

You know,

Once the perceptual sphere expands and the perceptual abilities expand to add language to actually the experience that you're having in two seconds of all the different places and locations and changes and rate of change and all this on and on and on.

And so it can,

The scope of awareness is,

Is,

Uh,

The potential for that.

There is no end to it,

Right?

It is boundless as far as I know.

Yeah.

Well,

I,

I I'm interested to find out.

Yeah,

That's right.

And,

And brings it up.

I love how she will have these reference points because my here,

We think it's ironic because in some of the awareness I was in these spaces too,

We all start with from where we're at.

Right.

But for me to try to sit back and remember to where that was,

I can't really help people just starting off as well,

Because I,

Those reference points are so far behind,

Not so far behind me.

And it just sounds like almost a spiritual ego kind of bragging thing.

Right.

But if I'm so disconnected from people,

Um,

On certain stages of their journey,

I'm not very much of help to them.

I love how Ann will clearly lays out how it is before,

During it after,

And not that,

You know,

It's,

It's like,

It's,

It's,

It's such a cool way to document her journey and her,

Um,

YouTube channels shows all this as well.

Um,

And so I don't feel I'm very well-spoken pretty much on anything,

Which is even more ironic because I have a podcast.

Right.

Uh,

So,

Um,

It's part of me getting over the kind of a fear of,

Uh,

Being out in front on camera too,

I think.

But anyway,

I just wanted to give a props to that.

And yes,

It is because,

And then the big question here around this,

I feel is,

Well,

What good is this Ann?

You know,

What good is this,

You know,

Feeling sensations in her body?

How can that help me in others in my everyday life?

And of course,

I know a lot of answers to this,

Or I can speak to this,

But I want to hear what you have to say on that.

Right.

So,

Um,

Well,

There's a lot of things there.

So,

So this is where I use the law of attraction.

I'm not using it in terms of manifestation,

Trying to do something I'm using just as an understanding tool in terms of how we evolve.

And I think of the whole of us as being a signal and we're emitting this signal resistance and all,

And we're attracting back into our future based on this signal.

So I've seen with my work with EFT,

How we replay things over and over again,

Not in this exact same way,

We,

With different people,

Different scenarios,

But the same feelings,

We just replay them over and over again.

And I so wanted to change.

Now,

I think from what you just shared,

That you had that will and that desire to make changes.

And I really wanted to change.

And so I realized the biggest part of that signal is that tension that we hold inside from our past.

And now I know that is such a deep level,

Right?

The forces are just out of this world.

And if we can let go of that tension inside of us,

We are changing our signal.

So we're changing what we're attracting into our future.

Right?

So if we can all change how we're feeling now and become peaceful inside,

That is then our signal.

And we're attracting that into our future.

So I would use that on a daily basis as I'd ask myself,

How am I feeling right now?

And do I want to feel this way again in the future?

And the answer was usually no.

So that's okay,

Then I need to do something right now.

I need to change this signal because I don't want to feel this way again.

So if I was feeling fearful or sad or frustrated,

I would either tap using EFT or I would feel those sensations and allow that energy to dissipate.

And I still do it to this day at now a deeper level.

So I will search out triggers.

I will watch the news.

I will feel inside.

It's like,

Is that,

Does that feel like it's doing something inside and I would focus on that tension that I find and release it.

So just at a deeper and deeper level.

And so I'm actually working at the level of the bones now.

So I'm working inside my cheekbones,

Inside my tooth roots,

Right?

We use that word,

Find the root of the whatever.

Well,

I wondering at this point,

Is it really maybe all stored in our tooth roots and we're just not aware of it.

So I'm working to release that tension and I'm going to be really interested to see how things evolve.

Well,

I'd be interested in learning what you find out them that too,

Because I've heard various systems and esoteric things,

How a lot of,

Yeah,

Memory and stuff is stored in the tooth teeth.

I don't know exactly how to put this,

But when we look at crystal,

Right,

Crystal will hold memory too with computers and whatnot.

And our bones are crystal and material.

So it makes sense.

Now,

This awareness too,

I think it's a huge part of the spiritual path,

At least for me,

Because it can,

It leads to insight and wisdom.

And then when we have this insight and wisdom,

We are able to see and know things in life and then make choices that will be for our benefit and for the benefit of others,

Especially in the longterm as well.

And just to share another thing,

I've shared this before a similarity early on in my meditation practice,

I wept for probably maybe like a year of daily sitting,

But it was by myself,

Right?

So it was socially acceptable.

Nobody saw me do it,

But it was like this release because all this material was coming up,

All these memories I had forgotten about,

I had put off to the side because I didn't,

Well,

I didn't know how to deal with them.

I didn't know how to,

Didn't know what to do.

I didn't even know they were there.

And so just naturally they started emerging and it's like,

Oh wow.

Yeah.

I,

Now I remember that thing and wow.

I really treated myself like that.

I can't believe that I treated this other person like that.

Oh my goodness.

I can't believe I did that.

And so this kind of this nurturing and forgiveness of myself,

Of them asking for forgiveness from others.

I mean,

I actually went and called certain people up that I had talked to for years and asked for forgiveness too,

But it was like this release.

And so we can't really know or see what we don't know or see.

And this allowed kind of a space to open up kind of a safety.

And as these things emerged to be seen and let go of and healed then more and more possibilities opened up more and more awareness,

More and more sensitivity,

More and more wisdom,

But with that comes more responsibility too.

So,

And the more we become more sensitive,

Energetically sensitive,

The more susceptible ironically,

Maybe that we are to more harm as well.

But the,

At the same time,

We have more wisdom on what to do and address that and also more abilities to sense more things and to help ourselves deeper and deeper levels and to help others at deeper and deeper levels too.

Gosh,

There is a lot there.

I hope I can hold that in my mind.

So first of all,

The tears,

I absolutely believe that all those tears that we never shed in childhood,

It's still stored inside of us and will release if we find a way to do it.

So you found meditation EFT will do that too.

Yes.

So it's a good thing crying and letting that tension out of ourselves is absolutely a good thing.

And then what were you talking about?

Yes.

No,

The,

Yeah,

The,

The levels of awareness.

So the,

The healing,

Um,

Um,

Well,

All the memories coming up to through meditation and the weeping,

Like you mentioned,

But also the greater levels of awareness that come in.

Oh,

Yes.

You mentioned,

Yes.

As we release more and more,

I believe what we experience in life is there for us to then experience.

So it's like,

That's why so many dark things are happening these days because we're getting to deeper and deeper levels inside of ourselves.

And it's just there for us to notice and to feel and to let go of.

So I don't think that things get darker,

Right?

We do have things come towards us that feel dark,

But they're just there for us to experience and to feel if we get stuck,

If we get caught in those emotions,

We're just keeping them stuck inside of us and we're then going to attract them again into our future.

So if we want to let go of war in our future,

Then we need to use this timeframe because things are happening around now to feel those feelings because we all experienced war in childhood in terms of we were taught about world war one,

We were taught about world war two.

We watched movies,

Videos about it.

We met about it and we never let those feelings pass through.

We never talked about how we felt about what we'd learned in school.

We just stored it all inside.

The same with climate change.

I remember feeling petrified as a child of what was going to happen in our future in terms of climate change.

So we saw that as part of our signal.

I started as part of my signal.

So now if I feel those feelings,

If I feel the fear and allow it to pass through,

Then it's no longer a part of my signal and it's no longer being attracted into my future.

Beautiful.

Yes.

And I love this perception of,

You know,

This repeating thing until we learned the lessons that we're meant to learn things repeat,

They might not repeat exactly.

Like you were saying,

They might show up in a different person,

A slightly different way with the main thing to be learned is there,

But each time it repeats,

Instead of looking at it like a cycle,

That's just something I don't want each time it's like climbing a spiral staircase.

So we have a wider,

More broad perception of what's going on.

So every time it repeats,

We can have a bigger view on it and,

You know,

Better understanding until it finally,

We learn what we need to learn from it.

And it stops repeating as well.

And I know for the masculine speaking of war,

Which is they are beating the war drums big time right now.

I've,

You know,

Hyping it up.

And I mean,

With the masculine,

The masculine,

Maybe a lot of times,

Because they don't,

You know,

I guess,

Experience what that experience is like when they're taught about it in history books,

Then they're more susceptible to programming to go out there and kill for whoever wants them to kill in a war.

I don't know.

The other thing is,

But I mean,

That's maybe for another time,

But with the masculine,

I feel that not being able to face pain and maybe,

And we'll have something to say about this,

But people being afraid to face pain.

And I know sometimes it can be so overwhelming that we need other strategies to distract us or take our mind away from going through the pain,

But facing pain and experiencing it and working through it and healing it instead of these unwholesome coping strategies like drinking,

Because I know I've been there,

Right.

I've done that.

Don't do that anymore.

But are shopping or,

You know,

Sex,

What is it?

Just,

Just fantasies playing video games,

TV,

All this on and on and on because things are too painful and people don't want to face their pain.

Yeah.

We sometimes think the pain's going to annihilate us.

I remember thinking that myself,

It's like,

But,

But that experience with my cat is so powerful to me to realize that the freedom is on the other side of that pain,

That fear,

Those memories.

And if I can get there,

What a great place to be.

So for me,

That one experience was really good,

But in terms of suppressing things,

Our armed forces are totally programmed not to feel right in bootcamp where they're shouted at.

All those things that programming is just so that they don't feel that's just layer upon layer of resistance that's added to them.

So it's hard to want to even break through that afterwards,

But it can be done.

And it is,

It's just a layer by layer process of total acceptance,

Right?

Even the acceptance of,

I don't want to do this.

I don't want to work on this because it's too overwhelming.

That in itself is the first layer of resistance.

And we just take that resistance,

Accept it,

Right?

It's okay that I don't want to do that.

Just allow that thought to be accepted.

And that releases a little bit of resistance and then the ability or the willingness to look inside just opens the door a little bit.

That brutal honesty is so needed.

Absolutely.

And you can see it happening in some areas.

Oh yes,

For sure.

So to wrap this up,

Perhaps I had this question you have on the profile,

How to change the future of the world.

That's a big one.

I want to know that.

I think pretty much everybody living today wants to know how to change the future of the world.

I mean,

That's some power.

That's a powerful question or ability if you could change the future of the world,

Right?

Right.

Right.

And,

And,

You know,

From looking inside,

I know that all we store inside is tension or no tension,

Darkness or light.

Once we release that tension underneath is the light,

Right?

So we don't actually have to focus on the positive,

Positive,

Or it's already there.

All we have to do is find the negative.

So find the fears.

So,

You know,

We've already talked about it,

Right?

But in terms of a signal,

If we find all our fears inside and we let go of that tension,

If we let go of our traumas,

If we let go of the fear of what's going to happen if things continue as they are,

Then that's no longer part of our signal and we don't need to re-experience it,

Right?

It has changed.

It's changed our future.

So every time we do this work,

Every time we do some tapping or feeling our feelings or feeling this tension on the inside,

We're actually changing our future already.

And I can attest to this for sure,

Because when I change the whole,

My whole world changes,

You know,

Absolutely.

There's so much depth to life that I had no idea existed when I started this work about 15,

18 years ago.

There's just so much depth to life that people don't know about,

I didn't know about,

But it's really fun to experience.

It's an enlightening process,

Right?

We actually feel lighter as we're letting the burdens that we've carried around for all these decades go,

Right?

We physically feel lighter,

But I know now from looking on the inside,

There is actually light underneath the darkness.

So we are actually lighter on the inside as well.

And life improves,

Like it's happier,

Right?

It's easier to laugh,

It's easier to smile.

And just so much benefits to doing this work that I think people don't necessarily understand when they started.

That's right.

And we see those burdens and we can put them down and we can see them and not have to pick them up again,

Right?

And then when we're in a better space too,

That because we're all interconnected,

When everybody we meet and interact with,

It's like a domino effect,

Right?

And not only that,

But some of the people that we've attracted before,

Some of the life lessons that have been presented over and over to us,

Once those are healed and worked through,

Then we find ourselves having new friends,

New situations,

New opportunities,

All because,

Or primarily because we've healed and worked through this and have a commitment to this so much more than A.

M.

Was talking about.

I like,

One of my teachers online that I used to study with,

It's like,

You wake up one day and you look around,

It's like,

Is this it?

No,

This can't be it.

And it's not.

There's a lot of stuff under the surface,

Vast amount of phenomena,

Experiences,

True knowledge,

Wisdom,

And just things that are really hidden,

You know,

And those become,

When we're able to see those things and go notice what we haven't known before,

Where they say there's like three types of people,

Those who see,

Those who don't see,

And those who see once they're shown.

One last thing based on what you were just saying is,

There's a subtle difference between pushing someone away that we don't think we should interact with anymore,

And doing the work to let the feelings go and having it drift apart,

Or maybe stay but on a different level,

Right?

Maybe like,

Make that relationship stay.

So we often want to blame other people for all sorts of things.

And our part of that is always how we feel about it,

Right?

We might see someone arguing,

And we might think it's nothing to do with us.

But if we're,

If that brings up a memory inside of us,

Or we're feeling afraid,

That feeling is something that we can work on and let it go,

Because that expands our awareness.

Yeah,

So we can always have some responsibility for what's happening in our lives.

Anne,

Thanks so much for coming on,

Kind of spacing out with me,

Or allowing me to space out,

Right,

A little bit here and make a Freudian slip about age.

I apologize for that.

Jeez,

I mean,

Come on.

But that aside,

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom and your journey.

It's been a delight and a pleasure.

Thanks so much again.

Thank you for the great conversation.