There, There, Dear

When one's mind is spinning on a woeful story about a particular situation, it is useful to have a calming talk with oneself, just as we might say the words, "There, there, dear," to a friend in tears. It is the verbal equivalent of offering a cup of tea.

These gentle interruptions of troubling thoughts are essential for redirecting the attention when it has been overtaken by obsessive thinking. In nearly any situation, we can change our focus, even if we have to do that many times a day.

This live session occurred on Jan. 18, 2026, in Victoria, Australia. All participants were notified that the conversations were being recorded for public broadcasts on podcasts.

Transcript

I've been having gatherings like this for 32 years, Maybe 33 years. In cities and towns and rural places and wildernesses. All kinds of context. And I almost never have anything planned when I'm sitting in this chair. Almost never. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I have a quote in mind or some theme that I'm reflecting on. Mostly, I'm just waiting to see what I'm going to say as well. Because I'm reliant on a kind of streaming expression. Because I am either in perception or thinking or in sensations. Sometimes these overlap. That's pretty much it. The whole of it. And I rely on a certain In this case, Being in this chair at this gathering, I rely on just sharing the stream of any one of those that pops up. And this is my way of pointing us. To present awareness. To this dreaming sense of being. Instead of the thinking, The constant thinking as being. Ruminating. Stories of the past. Projections about the future. Which have an unkempt resemblance to things that happened in the past. Even though all of that, Of course, Only occurs in the present. So rather than spend. Our present time. Thinking about past or future. Why not just experience directly? What's happening in present time. It's just these few things, Usually. We think about. Big grand plans and. What might happen someday. We're planning creatures. And to some degree we have to do that. We actually have to plan. For most of us, In our lives, It requires some planning. But my ways, Like if I write something down in the calendar. Once it's written down, I don't think about it, Unless it requires some other piece to the plan that has to be noted. So this is a kind of entrainment that one can experience, That you go along in life and you just take it as it comes. And you've got these experiences as I described, You've got those rolling along with you. And it becomes very simple. So that's why I don't need to plan when I'm sitting in this chair. Because I'm relying on just that simplicity of the expression. Krishnamurti, Great teacher, Died in the 80s. At the age of 90 he died. He was well known at the time. I don't know how many younger people would have heard of him, But he was definitely, In my time, He was one of the great teachers. And someone once asked him, Sir, What is the secret to your well-being? And he said, I don't mind what happens. No. Because we're human. Emotional creatures. Sometimes we do mind what happens. But there's another level. There's another level. On which we might not mind what happens. And I recommend being quite familiar with that level as well. Predominantly so. On the human level, Yeah, There's lots of things that we mind what happened or happens. We'd like to tweak it in our own ways for sure. But we don't really get to tweak a lot about. We don't get to have a lot of control here. So in that case, We don't mind what happens. If you want some contentment, You say yes to it, Even though it's hard. So as you get used to. Streaming experiences, Streaming perceptions, Streaming thinking. Thinking is only streaming, Really. As you get used to that, You have a kind of trust that you'll respond as needed. You'll say the words as needed. You'll show up as needed, Do what needs to be done. With not a lot of hubbub in your mind. It's a habit. I wonder if you'd talk a little bit more about what Krishnamurti meant. And just ways of cultivating that kind of way of being, Right? Yeah. Well, Let me just, I'm going to also take it a little bit further into, Of course, Sometimes we do mind what happens as humans, But you get the general. So one clue is to really experience what happens when you're fighting reality. How's that going? Pendulum. Yeah, So when you're fighting what happens or what happened in particular. Really feel in your being, Feel in your psyche, What is that doing? You're in a losing position of frustration. And it can be your ally. When you feel how frustrating it is to be fighting reality. Man, It keeps winning. Every time. Then you get tired of it. You get tired of it. A lot of the dissolution of suffering is born simply of enduring the suffering for as long as you can bear it. And then you can't bear it anymore. But then, Of course. You get better and better at that. In Buddhist teachings, They use an example, Which I don't really like because it involves animal abuse, But they use it to make a point. That in order to make a very slow-witted horse go. You have to really lash it with the whip. An average horse. A few cracks of the whip. It'll go. But an intelligent horse just needs to see the shadow of the whip. And so you can come to a point where you're just at the shadow of the whip. You realize, Okay, I see where this is going, And you let go. As I said, A habit. And it's greatly enhanced by your own observation of your direct experience. How does it feel when you just say, Okay. To something that's hard. Okay. It's the fight. It's the fight. So it was stars. Yes. And we all know times in our own lives when we've just been in total resistance until the fight was over. Right. Until there was a clear loss. But you might see just with the shadow of the whip. Okay, We know where this is headed. Now that doesn't mean we don't put effort out for being helpful, Making something better if we can. It's like the serenity prayer. Give me the courage to accept the things I cannot change, The strength to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference. It's pretty much the whole teaching, Actually. We go along in life, And there are certain things we have to learn. And a way to fight for. But at the point we realized there's nothing more to be done. Then it's time for the acceptance. Keeping it simple. Hi Catherine. I love this idea of the not minding what happens. And I love when I'm in that. Yeah. But there are many times when I'm not in that. So for example, My dear mother had a stroke two weeks ago. I've watched my mind go through periods of being very present and very loving and focusing, Being of service, And then other times when the mind is very busy with what's going to happen and what's it going to mean for me and what's it going to mean for her. And it doesn't seem to be something that I I'm not quite sure what changes between those two states of daily meditation and daily devotional practices. And yet some days, Almost before I even wake up, The mind is going. Sure. Yeah. So I'm just interested. You don't have to mind that. Okay. So don't mind that either. Don't mind what the mind is doing. Unless it's tormenting you in some particular way in that you could adjust it, But. . . Look, Some people have a propensity for a lot more thinking. A lot more thinking is occurring. Again, It's just streaming through. It's just streaming. I say often, You don't have to stop the thoughts. They go on their own. You can't make them stick. They're streaming through open space. A lot of teachings have a kind of. Like an idiot. You can stop thought. That no thought is the better state. It's impossible. They're selling you a bill of goods. It's not possible. And the greatest teachers recognize that. They understand that the mind is just, It's a monkey. It's like having a monkey in the house. But you don't let it run the place, Right? It's not the boss. So yes, You don't fight with the mind either. Don't mind the mind. And it can calm down. When you're not hanging on the every word. I used to often use years ago, I used to use an example of. It's like having a crazy aunt that lives in the attic. You know, You can't kill her. But you don't have to hang on her every word. You don't actually listen to much of what she's ranting about. So it's like you just say, There, There, Dear. Sometimes say to yourself, They're there dear. I love that image of the crazy aunt. I think I can work with that. Yes, Exactly. And it is that no preference. I think that part of it is I feel that I am a kinder, More compassionate person when the mind is more quiet. Um But I guess it's, Yeah, Again, No preference about even that. Yeah, Because if you had a preference about that and you then are judging yourself because there's still thinking going on and a lot of it, And sometimes a real obsessional quality of thinking. Then there might be this tension that you feel like, Oh, I'm experiencing this and now I also have to figure out how to get rid of it. But what if you just say, OK. There's a lot of ruminating going on. There are circumstances that will trigger a lot more rumination than others. And that's just how it is. One way of seeing this is to just keep having a sense that. . . Your awareness is spacious. So the the rumination becomes just another cloud or even a thunderstorm. But a thunderstorm is happening in very big space. Isn't it? Any old thunderstorm, Any big hurricane, It's happening in big space. So keep feeling into the space. Thank you. You're welcome. I could layer into that my burning thought was about. As much as my conscious mind is. Fully accepting of what is and this is how it is now and can really sit in that presence. It's like this internal state of being. And I can find those moments in between, But it's often just this, You know, Way of. . . Doing what needs to be done and finding, And then I'll catch myself and create the space. But it's, It's like this tremendous journey for me that I believe is like a healing that I'm trying to settle inside myself. Maybe it's an unconscious, Subconscious wiring, But it's very present in the daily, No matter where, You know, How I can switch so easily in my mind, These two realities. Yeah. Yeah. Well, You've spoken before about just the challenge of having three children and a big scene to run, A farmland. That there's a constant doing that's required to keep all of that going. So naturally you're going to have. . . Times where you're just stressed, You know, And tired. Sir, Again. Don't mind that. Do what you can to take a rest, To take breaks, But you don't need to layer on the story that somehow I've got to eliminate this part where I feel stressed. That's just another fight with reality. You are feeling stressed and almost anyone would. Almost anybody. I know some moms who have. Three or more kids. It's a lot. Unless you have nannies. I've known some families who had nannies. That's different. You know, You have lots more help and hands. It's just a matter of what it takes to do that job, And to do it well, And to do it with love and presence. So I would say just be easy on yourself, Say, There there dear, You're feeling stressed, You're feeling irritated, Like that, Really. It's to be expected. Last year, I, As you know, I had to be in Virginia taking care of my very ill brother. And it was from 7 in the morning until 10 at night. And I was just on the run. There was so many things to do and keep up with. Just even to keep him clean. It was a lot of bandaging and wound care and all kinds of things that I don't typically have to do in my life. And after a point, I was really quite stressed. I was just so exhausted. And I was just, I was dealing with my stress the best I could and taking breaks at night to sleep. And occasionally when he would be asleep, I would just get to sit down for a moment. And I wasn't in a great space. I was just, I just had no bandwidth. But I also didn't have any expectation that I should be other than that. I didn't have a story that said, You need to rise above this, And you need to blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Some teaching or anything like that. I did know that it would be time-limited, So that helped. And that's true for you, Too. And in the meantime, Finding the space in between. Yes, Finding the space in between, Even just little moments here and there, Five minutes here and there. Whenever somebody's talked to me about their stress at work. Kind of unrelenting and it's just ongoing stress as part of the job. I tell them even if you have to just go to the office bathroom, And just seem to stall. And just sit there for a few minutes. That's okay, Do that. What I think about that I find helpful, And I would be interested, Catherine, To hear you speak to this, Is about seasons of life. Because I feel that we have seasons in parenting, We have seasons as women, Seasons as men, Seasons within families. Seasons of death. I would be interested to hear you speak to that. I love that. I love that perspective. I can attest. So I would just say yes, There's an honoring of that, An honoring in your own journey, And an honoring of when you're with anybody else, Of their season, Like the season of youth, Or the season of babyhood, Which is amazing to be around, To witness, Especially Like I think about some of my, A couple of my friends were telling me that this Christmas was such a fun time for them because they were with young, They're young kids. And we were just reflecting on how you get to relive your own enthusiasm for Christmas. You're reliving it together. You're in your own season again of being a kid at Christmas. So yes, Honoring the season that you're in, Not lamenting. The season that you're in, Wishing you were in a different season all the time, As many people do who are fighting aging. Pretending they're in a different season. Yeah. It's a real thing. Yeah. Yeah. And to end your earlier theme, I was thinking about, Which I've been thinking about recently in context with the bushfires and the floods and things, That this, Like, That it can happen to you. Like so many people walk around thinking, Oh, That'll never happen or that could never happen to me. And then- Isn't it a mystery that people do think that? It's so common though. I know, But how do these things happen? You would have to be very unobservant to think that. Yeah. And I guess it goes for good things and bad things, Doesn't it? Like people think, Oh, That could never happen to me, Something really great. And then, Well, Why not? Yeah, Of course. Yes. Or something bad will happen to someone who is a lovely person and their friends will say, I can't believe this happened to someone who is such a nice guy. Yeah. I mean, It's sad, Of course, But that it happened, That really isn't a surprise. Hi Catherine. Hi dear. Have been watching the two amazing pelicans behind you. They're incredible. I'm wondering if there's anything that wants to be shared about holding space for other people that you love and their experiences, Whatever they may be. Yeah, I've recently had the experience of or the opportunity to be with someone that I love as they pass. Yeah. But I find myself in those kinds of roles a lot. I just wondered if there was anything coming through in that realm. My oldest friend. I was 14 when we became friends. We even had a 10-year relationship along the way. Now we're old people, But in any case, Years ago, He's a dharma teacher as well. There was a woman who had cooked at a lot of his retreats. He was very close with her, Having done all these retreats and her being the cook. They'd worked together a lot, So they knew each other over years of time. And. She developed liver cancer, And she was in Canada, And frankly, It was way too long before they even started giving her treatment, And by then she was dying. She had a 16-year-old daughter, And she was a single mom. And. In the last days of her life, She wouldn't allow anyone else other than my friend to be in the room. Because all he was doing was sitting there. He was not clinging to her. He wasn't giving her a Dharma talk. He wasn't trying to up-level the situation. He was sitting there in silence, Just being. And that's what she wanted in the room. And she couldn't even handle having her daughter there because her daughter was Losing it. Just crying and begging her not to die and. . . She couldn't see her daughter in those last days. But she wanted my friend, Her dear friend. Just sitting there in the room in a chair by her. So I think that that is an incredible gift in general. The actual Latin root of compassion is suffering with. Is suffering with. So there's a way in which you feel you're amortizing the suffering a bit. Someone gets it and you could feel that they're suffering with you in those moments. Not collapsing, Hopefully, But just feeling it. And just that you know someone cares and they're not trying to fix you or make you not have the feeling. You don't need to be different than as you are. It's very freeing. And very beautiful. It's a beautiful way to be a friend. Sometimes friends with the best of intentions. Want to change the person who's suffering, Right? They want to alleviate their suffering. They can see easily how it could be fixed. So, You know, There's that that happens. But if you start to notice that there's resistance or it's tiring for your friend in need, Or if it starts to feel, Especially for the person on the other side. That you're delivering a message. I mean, You're not quite OK. You're not okay as you are. You need to change. That's very oppressive. As we know from anyone who has given us advice where we feel like you're just not seeing me and you feel judged. I feel sometimes it's very hard to don't mind about what's happening even if we cannot do anything about what's happening. I just wanted to know what you can think. Well, If you're going to have too much time spent. Fretting over the world, You just, You'll be miserable. Miserable. Yes, In your original country, If you know your history there, So many times of war. Just war, War, War. Not specific to France, Just all over the place. And people died young. Lots of people died young. Lots of babies died. Little kids died. Women died in childbirth through history. Hundreds of years. Thousands of years. So, In our time, We have our own problems, Right? But we can't let our human spirit be defined by the world problems that we happen to come into in this moment of history. This is our moment of history. You're in your blink of a life. You're young, But trust me, It is a blink. So don't miss it. Don't miss it worrying about the big problems. You can do what you can. You might be inspired to be an activist in different things. I did all that as well when I was young. And it felt right at the time. So you'd follow your North Star in your life, Of course, But really leave plenty of room in the spaciousness in which you find yourself. To enjoy. To enjoy and also by the way. Never be hesitant to blast your joy. Because lots of people around us. Are struggling. In depression, In various forms of sadness and loss. And if you are a light, You walk into a room and you're a light. It's catchy. It's contagious. And I think a lot of young people. It's like there's a culture of anger. About what's happening. I will say anger. But I would say we are very worried of what's happening. I think there is some anger, Though, In the activist community. And I know that there's a lot of worry as well, Of course. So what I'm saying is that it can be kind of fashionable to not just be joyous. It can be seen as you're not getting it. You're not serious. Things are too terrible to be this happy. But I'm saying something different. I'm saying that you can be someone who's quite awake to the circumstances. And still be a light. That's my recommendation. Thank you. You're welcome. I've spent the last month not reading any news, Which is very unusual for me. I like to know everything that's going on. I have campaigned. I have been involved in activist activities. I volunteer for environmental things. All sort of started when I had kids. So what you're speaking to, It felt like there was nothing else and everything was so terrible and I had to do something and people around me weren't doing enough or, You know, It was very hard, Like I felt like the weight of on my shoulders. So I definitely feel what you're saying about, Yeah, Letting that lightness in and radiating joy is actually a way to help. The world and the people around you. I might not be changing the latest bill that's passing that I don't agree with, Or the way I voted may not have got the person who I believe. I should have got in to help our world, But I can impact the people around me. Absolutely. Yeah. I will also say that sitting here and looking out, Nature is probably the only thing that quietens my inner world. And I have found that, I think, Through that journey of activism and caring. But there was another bird out there. I think it was a wedge-tailed eagle and it was flying for a really long time. And yeah, Right back to what you say about not minding the wind is so strong. And it was not fighting the wind. It's just going with the wind. And yeah, It's just been beautiful listening to you speak and watching that happening out there in nature. To your point though, Again, Back to the joy factor and the importance importance. It's only when your own well is full that it spills over. So be brave in making sure your well stays full in whatever ways. And I love it that you took this break, Right? And that you let your well fill up. You do that for everybody, And you're right. The people you interact with, The people whose hearts you touch, They're out there touching other people's hearts as well. But we don't have to keep accounts of. How our goodness of heart manifests. Thank you. You're welcome.

Reviews

Lovely q and a session. I wish I was at your whole conference. Thank you for posting

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