"Surrender" (Guest Episode Of What Is Now? With Donna Jones)

What happens when you genuinely surrender to Now? Saqib & Charles are joined by fellow traveler, Donna Jones, in this interpersonal exploration of the present moment. Each session begins with one minute of silence, followed by an unplanned exploration of whatever arises in the present moment, and ends with a short guided practice led by Saqib based on the themes of the session. We hope you enjoy!

Transcript

Hello.

Welcome to another What Is Now experience.

I'm Charles Freely,

And I'm here with my good friend,

Saket Brisby.

If we had to be categorized,

We are both investigators of consciousness,

With training backgrounds and professional experience in the world of psychological and spiritual healing.

Each of these sessions is an adventure of the present moment.

Saket Brisby and I begin each session by sitting in silence for one minute,

And then simply see what arises now.

We have no plan,

No prepared material or concepts to cover,

But are placing our trust in the wisdom of this Right Now experience.

This is an expression of our shared philosophy of healing.

If we can only let go of our desire for the present moment to be a certain way,

Other than it is,

Then we can find the unexpected answers of what is actually now.

So,

If you will join us,

We will begin with one minute of silence.

And you can use this minute in whatever way you like.

With your eyes closed,

Sitting,

Eyes open,

Standing,

Or walking,

Or driving in your car.

We only ask that you return to what is actually happening right now in this moment,

To reset the momentum of the day,

And open up to just this.

After this minute,

Saket and I will explore whatever arises between us.

We identify themes of our exploration as we go,

And then Saket finishes with a short guided meditation based on the themes that arise in the session.

And now let's enter one minute of silence together as we explore what is now really.

And you'll hear a bell to start and end this one minute of your day.

So,

Donna,

How was that experience for you?

It felt really good.

Usually when I meditate,

I am seated on a floor,

Maybe on a pillow.

And this time I'm seated on a couch with my feet flat on the floor.

And I know this is a very common way to meditate.

And I offer that to others,

Because you don't have to be seated cross legged on the floor.

But to experience myself new,

Different,

But definitely enjoyable.

It just made me think of my daily,

Quote unquote,

Meditation practice.

I don't know if intense is the right word,

But it's like,

So I could just share.

It's like I have this little space.

It's actually through the back of our laundry room.

And it's this like kind of dark area.

I like keep having it very kind of minimal and there's nothing there.

And I have my mat and my cushion and I sit kneeling,

Which it used to be a very painful posture,

But I've gotten into a stance where it feels really stable.

But it is also,

It's very,

There's quite a formal kind of character to it,

Which is great.

Because I think it helps me feel like very stable and reliant only on myself.

And there's something beautiful about that.

But then I,

What you just said about just sitting in a chair is sometimes like if I don't have time,

Or sometimes randomly,

I'll just decide to meditate if I'm on the couch or something and I'd cross my legs up,

I have cushions around me and there's a back support.

And that has its own like really kind of special quality to it.

And I feel maybe even more sort of cared for in those times.

And it's almost a way that I sometimes drop deeper into like nothing or I don't know,

You just reminded me of the value of sometimes letting go of the,

Whether or not you intended it this way,

Letting go of the importance of my particular way of doing things and just being like today,

I'm actually not going to do that.

And I'm going to go sit over here on the couch with a blanket.

And yeah,

But just maybe think of that.

Yeah,

No,

I think you're exactly right.

Because I can speak for myself,

I sometimes am rigid and I like things a certain way.

And it doesn't always have to be that way.

And you still get the benefit of whatever it is in this case,

It being the meditation,

Just closing your eyes and just breathing.

And I like how you said in terms of it feeling special,

Because I have a back support and it's nice and cushiony.

And the surface that I'm sitting on the couch is very comfortable.

And I'm like,

Oh,

I like this.

And I have closed my eyes throughout the day,

Wherever I am.

But I haven't necessarily set a timer,

Right?

It's usually I set my timer when I am seated on the floor cross legged.

So a very it's a good experience.

Yeah,

I think for me,

It's sometimes if I become too comfortable with the position,

You know,

If it is a couch,

So I would get into that sleepy mode.

My body is too stiff and I'm trying to,

You know,

Sit in a lotus position,

Then it will become so difficult that I will not be able to concentrate on the meditation.

So it's like,

I would try to have all those positions,

But there is that balance point for me,

Which is not too comfortable and not too stiff.

What was the was there anything that you noticed in particular about the two minutes or one minute?

I remember that the audience generally is doing one minute with us,

But sometimes we'll do two minutes here.

Anything you noticed in particular,

Sakup?

There was something in my background happening.

So it was a fly trying to get out of the window.

I could listen to that.

And then I realized there is another opening in my room through which,

You know,

It can go out,

But it's not able to see that.

And they were then there were thoughts in my mind regarding,

You know,

And I was getting this thought during that,

Those two minutes and one minute for the audience that,

You know,

Maybe our life is like that,

That we,

There is some way out,

There is some way through which we can get through and,

You know,

Bring that joy into our life,

But maybe we are not able to see it.

It's like that closed window that we are hitting again and again,

But there is an open window that we don't see in these insights.

I love that.

It makes me think of even the essence of what we're trying to do here,

Which is to go into something in a really open way.

And I think when you have that openness to whatever is happening for you,

You can see like life lessons,

These like massive things in anything.

And if you're open to this,

Like the fly that's going up against the window and you're not currently in the state of like,

I'm searching for something or trying to do something that you can be hit by this like,

Wow,

That's kind of like me or that's kind of like what we're doing in life.

Just like constantly butting up against this window when there is an opening over there,

But I just can't quite see it.

Yeah,

That's true.

Have you ever encountered such a situation in your life,

Donna,

When you were trying to get out of the window?

Absolutely.

That you sharing that about the fly really resonated with me because this entire week,

I've had an opportunity to step away from my day to day.

So I live in New York.

I'm currently in Illinois.

And just being away from,

You know,

My day to day routine,

I've been attending a virtual conference and spending time with friends.

And so I've had a lot of quiet time.

And in that quiet time,

Yes,

I've thought a lot about the good and everything that I'm grateful for,

And just truly how blessed I am.

On the other hand,

I've thought,

And there's so many roadblocks that I have come upon.

People not responding,

People saying that they will reach out,

But they don't.

People not honoring their word.

And so I am trying not to allow that to discourage me,

Right,

From continuing to really live in my purpose.

Right.

So when you talk about being open,

You just have to be open to the possibilities,

Even though,

Again,

For me,

I've thought,

Well,

I thought this was the right thing.

Well,

Maybe it wasn't the right thing,

Either for that other person,

Or maybe even for me.

So and maybe I don't need to get out of that door,

Right.

Right then and there.

Maybe I need to sit in that space before finding either the exit or the entrance somewhere else.

So no,

That's wonderful.

You know,

This idea of even why try to get out,

Maybe stay in the room.

And yeah,

I totally like that.

What about you,

Giles?

Have you experienced any such situation lately,

Which you can relate to this?

I was just thinking that was a cool shift,

Too,

To add that extra piece of the fly also can stay in the room.

There's maybe finding another way out,

But there's also maybe finding,

Once actually out,

You'll be there and you'll ultimately be the same thing.

But then it comes back to like,

It's making me think of the internal mindset.

And that's what is important is it reminds me of you ever heard of this?

It's there's a visual of an iron bull and a mosquito.

Never heard of that before.

I came up came across it reading Alan Watts is one of my favorite people.

There's so many like metaphors and visuals that really speak to me.

And I'll read something.

I'm like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I know that feeling,

But I've never been able to put into words before.

Maybe it's because you can't put it into conceptual words or intellectual words.

But when you put it into some metaphorical way of speaking or a vision,

You're like,

Oh,

Yeah,

That's it.

But this one in particular was the idea of there being this big metal bowl and a mosquito that is attempting to eat from the bowl because that's like what the mosquito uses for life source the blood.

And that so many of us or like all of us in life are in some way this mosquito that is continually trying to suck blood from from a metal bowl.

And that quote unquote enlightenment or something like that is the awareness of,

Oh,

This is an impossible task that I'm attempting to engage in.

And then inevitably when you see that this bowl is made of metal,

It just doesn't even make sense to try anymore.

And then maybe you'll fly around to the other side,

You'll find a life source somewhere else.

But I love that visual.

And it was making me think of that.

But for me,

I'm just thinking,

I don't know how relevant it is.

But I,

I'm writing a book currently.

And then I have been for a while,

It's been several years in the works,

Sort of project.

And I know deep down,

It's like the most important project for me to do.

But at the same time,

It,

I guess it's a couple things,

It's insecure,

Like,

I don't really know what it's going to turn out like,

I don't know,

If there is even anything like a value to share there,

I don't know what tangibly it's going to mean,

Like,

I don't know why to make this book,

Like,

It's,

I don't have the idea that it's going to provide me a lot of money,

I don't have the idea that it's going to become like famous or anything like that.

Maybe there are those parts of my ego that think about those things.

But it's really just like the creation of this thing,

There feels like there's something inside.

And that's the best,

Most pure channel to have it expressed.

And,

But at the same time,

Because there is no like tangible feedback for it,

I find myself focusing on all the other things that are much more immediate,

And that bring immediate,

Like feedback and provide income and that kind of stuff.

And so,

Like,

I'll find pockets of time to work on it.

And when I can get into a flow of doing it,

It feels so good and alive.

And I'm like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I remember this is this is awesome.

And this will is such a cool project.

But it's hard to stay in that zone,

Because I keep coming back to like,

The demands of the week.

And I notice,

You know,

Well,

I have a bunch of student debt.

So I have to like,

Pay attention to,

To paying for that and like focusing on all the stuff that is more tangible and immediate.

But I at the same time,

I know,

Like,

I'm thinking of me like,

Butting up against the window in some way by,

You know,

Continuing to put that to the side.

And there's a part of me that totally knows that it will,

It's going to feel so freeing and liberating to like fly over there and just like dedicate more of my energy to it.

But I continue to do that.

And I continue to see it as something that I like,

Maybe I'm getting closer to maybe it's in the future,

But I don't really know.

But it's it feels nice for me to talk with you both about it right now,

Because I haven't quite articulated in this way before.

And maybe this is a way of me kind of looking and seeing more of the metal bowl that I'm like,

Trying to suck blood from,

And remind me to like,

To kind of continually rededicate myself to this project that's really,

Like,

I feel essential to me as a human.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

Can I ask a question about that?

In terms of your why,

Like,

If you said this has been a few years in the making.

So do you recall what really prompted you like what really inspired you to say this is a project that I want to take on and accomplish?

Yeah,

Thanks for asking that,

Too.

It makes me excited.

And it's even like the start of the book.

So I've written,

Like the first,

It might be a section or a chapter,

But the start of the book is sort of about that.

And so I've shared with Saka before,

I'm not sure if I share with you on our call,

But every year for the past,

Like,

Five or six years of my life,

I've been going to this Zen monastery for a couple weeks at a time.

And not because I identify as Buddhist,

Because I don't,

Or anything like that.

It's just this,

It's become this really special part of my life that is so removed from anything that I do on a daily basis.

And it's like this whole other world.

And they're just totally dedicated to the practice of meditation,

And just like,

You know,

Eight hours a day of just meditating and even the meals and the work,

It's all just this like meditative practice.

And on one occasion there,

I and so we talked about sitting in pain.

And there,

I'll be sitting in a ton of pain sometimes,

Because you're sitting for hours at a time.

And I like to kind of challenge myself to sit without support in that situation.

But I remember,

There was one that felt like so incredibly painful.

And I just,

I just kept with it,

I kept coming back to the breath.

And something shifted where,

Like my awareness of pain,

It was,

I no longer had any resistance to it,

It just all kind of turned into these sensations that were like buzzing around,

And there was no positive or negative and something shifted there.

And I,

And then I was just like hit with just upwelling of creative ideas.

And it was just like all of these.

First of all,

It was like thoughts about all the people in my life and like how grateful I am for all the people in my life.

And then it was like just this combination of thoughts and things that I've learned just sort of naturally coming together in,

In this really cool way.

And that seems so obvious to me.

And one of those things was this,

The book,

The like the,

The title of the book,

Just I felt like it was spoken to me.

Like it's the will to do nothing was the title,

Which also kind of was exemplified in the situation that I was in,

Because I let go of resistance to this pain.

And then through that,

Through that will to stop resisting to just like all this rush of kind of amazing stuff came up to the surface.

And then even like all the sections just like came into my mind.

Like there were eight sections,

Like,

Oh yeah,

It's exactly that.

And,

And I had never really thought of writing a book up until that point.

But in that moment,

It was just,

It was like it was given to me.

And then it,

It feels very essential to create,

To turn that into something that's tangible that I can hold and be like,

Yeah,

Like that thing that was born in that moment.

And then this is like another form of birth to like have it as something that I can see and maybe share with other people.

But yeah,

What's,

What do you think about that?

Or what's that like,

When you hear me share about it?

My thought is surrender,

Right?

So you in that moment,

It sounded as if you said,

Okay,

I'm going to stop resisting the feeling of being uncomfortable,

The pain that you were experiencing sitting with not having the support.

And that moment,

All of what you deserved came to you in that moment.

Same thing as we talked about in the beginning with the fly,

Right?

So the fly and myself,

Right?

If we say,

Okay,

It's okay that I'm here in this moment,

I'm just going to receive what is owed to me,

Then all the possibilities are open at that point.

It also brings me the idea of attachment that how attached we are to our work,

To,

You know,

This idea of doing something and this,

This is something created by our own selves.

You know,

We think that,

Okay,

This is very important to me.

So I should do this,

But these are all ideas.

And as you beautifully said,

Donna,

That,

You know,

Surrender can really help us maybe connect to something which is beyond coming from a deeper level of awareness that what is it that,

You know,

That deeper level of awareness wants us to do rather than we attaching ourselves to different ideas.

Okay,

Let's do this,

Let's do that.

So it's a beautiful practice of surrender.

And I totally feel,

You know,

As Charles,

You were talking about those moments when you will be in the flow.

So I think for me,

I could at that time also think of my moments of flow.

And I realized that when I would surrender totally,

That is when that flow arises.

It's a beautiful learning here.

And you,

You mentioning attachments interesting too,

Because there might even there be,

Because I was thinking of,

As I was describing it,

I was,

That was like,

There was this birth of,

Of that book or this,

This thing,

Like took shape.

And then there's like another book of having it be something separate or tangible.

And maybe on some level,

There's,

There is attachment there in the need for it to become something other than it already is within me.

Because maybe it is like,

And I think it is totally fully enough simply as it is just existing in that,

In that moment.

And now as it's a part of my life,

And now as it's me sharing it here with you,

And that it would be really cool potentially to create it into something,

But it also it doesn't have to.

Actually,

That reminds me of some advice that I received from this philosophy professor one time that I was lucky to have some conversations with.

And he had written several books.

And I asked him,

This was after I had the intention to write this book.

And I asked him his advice about writing a book.

And he was like,

My main piece of advice is to not write a book.

And that to me was like,

It meant to me to let go of the need to make this thing or the like the any sort of external need or like trying to make it to fit a certain audience or trying to do it for any secondary instrumental outcome,

But that it will just it just will come naturally from you.

And that was his advice to me,

Which and I love the sort of piffy way that he said it to me because it's very memorable,

Like,

Oh,

Just don't write a book.

And that's my main advice to you.

This is very valuable to me to kind of because this is something that generally only happens in my mind and for only short periods of time.

So it's funny how this group practice has kind of turned into my opportunity to share this with you both and have it reflected back to me.

I was just noticing or remembering in the two minutes for me the two minutes slash one minute depending on who you are,

That I've noticed a ton of like buzzing energy.

And to me that is like your presence here,

Donna,

With us.

There's something different that I was noticing,

Which it could be interpreted as like nerves or,

You know,

I hope this hope this goes well for everyone here,

But also something really exciting to have a whole other human in the mix of this.

And I'm wondering what's it been like for you to just kind of be with us here in this space?

And I feel that you totally just jumped into it.

And it's been really enjoyable for me.

But yeah,

I'm wondering just kind of what it's like for you to be here with us.

Yeah.

In this moment,

I would say ease,

Right?

I definitely feel a sense of ease.

Initially,

Prior to the call,

I was thinking I was having some anxiety because I just wasn't sure of what to say.

I wanted some notes.

I wanted some bullet points to kind of stay on track.

And so I can certainly appreciate just,

Again,

Being present and aware and just being very thoughtful about how others how the two of you are feeling what is coming up for you all.

And so I appreciate the space that you are creating here.

So thank you.

Thanks for sharing that too about the anxiety that you felt coming into it and wanting some more something to hold on.

And I even felt that in like our previous calls before recording that like the wish to how can I say this differently to provide a little bit more structure?

And it's almost it's kind of impossible to say it in any other way than just,

Well,

We're going to go in there and see what happens.

I think this also is setting the theme.

I think this theme is coming up.

Yes,

Yes.

I agree.

This idea of not having those preconceived ideas in our mind,

The information that we have just surrendering that surrendering our attachment to those ideas and just being here and seeing what comes up.

So yeah,

I think totally fits in.

So how has it been for you,

Sakup?

Yeah,

Like this particular episode or are you talking about the present?

Yes,

Just having an additional person such as myself here.

Oh,

It's wonderful.

And I feel the energy is amplified with your presence.

So usually it's when we Charles and I are doing this together.

So we have,

You know,

We have this.

I don't I don't want to quantify it,

But it's like to X the energy.

But now it's like not even three X.

It's like 10 X,

You know,

To have you here in this session and to also I'm curious to see that how you experience this.

So because we both have been doing this,

So we know that how we usually experience this.

But what is the experience of another person who is coming into the episode and how they are looking at this?

And I can totally see your level of ease and peace.

You mentioned that you felt a bit anxious before the session,

But I don't see that right now.

I can see that ease with which it is flowing.

So it's wonderful.

Oh,

Thank you for saying that.

Yes,

It I certainly feel as if I'm in my element.

These are conversations that I certainly enjoy having.

And to be able to have these types of this dialogue with,

You know,

Individuals to our new friends is quite meaningful.

And it's just really it really speaks to the endless possibilities of what we can do together,

You know,

In terms of our culture.

Right.

So yeah,

It's very meaningful.

I wonder what it's been like for the listener to they might have gotten used to our dynamic and to notice maybe even now as you're listening how this has felt different for you and what kind of sense of energy you've noticed in your body.

Because like what Sakeb said,

From the beginning,

I like how you said,

You know,

2x maybe with you and me and then like 10x because I agree.

I was noticing that,

Oh,

What's all this feeling that I have?

So kind of just beautiful to notice and experience in a different way.

Yeah.

I wonder,

What do you think now Sakeb or if we wanted to say anything before shifting in to a practice,

But it feels like a good maybe opportunity to shift into a practice led by you in whatever way that you want to.

But I want is anything anyone else wanted to say before we do that?

Well,

Before Sakeb goes,

If I may just,

I would just say I just have so much gratitude.

So the 2x that you all have been experiencing,

You all have set the foundation and really have put together something really special.

So kudos to both of you for doing this work.

And to you all,

It may not be work,

But it is very impactful to other people,

To your audience.

So I would say thank you for that.

And thank you for allowing me to join you all today.

Thank you.

That means a lot.

I feel really seen when you say that because it's something that only Sakeb and I have been doing for a while.

We get some level of interaction,

But it's very special to have you in here,

Not only participate,

But to give your feedback is very kind of filling to hear that.

So thank you.

Oh,

You're welcome.

Yeah.

And that amplifies our experience as well,

You know,

That we earlier it was just that one minute of silence,

But now it's one minute of silence plus drama.

So it amplifies that experience and it was beautiful to experience that.

So we shift into meditation now.

Sounds good.

Ready?

Great.

So the listener,

We will now shift into a short meditation.

And as we end the session and it's okay if you want to sit in any posture you want,

And if you want to close your eyes or keep your eyes open.

And the only thing is if you can keep your back open.

And as we begin with the meditation,

Just surrender your body to this moment.

Just notice how that surrender feels to you.

When you surrender your body to the moment,

Observe the surrender of your head.

What happens when you surrender your head?

Does it relax?

Does it do anything else?

Surrendering your mind,

Your neck,

Gradually surrendering your shoulders your arms,

Your hands.

Surrendering your chest,

Your abdomen,

Your back,

Your pelvis.

Surrendering your thighs,

Your knees.

And then your calves and your feet.

And then observe if there are any attachments in this moment.

Maybe you might be thinking about being somewhere else.

Maybe there are thoughts about relationship,

Whatever those thoughts are,

Observe them as cords of energy connected to your body.

Trying to pull you in all directions.

You now have the opportunity to cut those cords.

As you surrender to this moment.

So in your mind's eye,

You can visualize yourself removing those cords one by one,

Wherever they are in your body,

In your mind.

And then gradually your mind and your body are surrendering to this moment.

Realizing that there is nowhere else to go,

Nothing else to do.

Just being here and now.

Totally enjoying the moment.

So in your mind,

You can visualize yourself removing those cords one by one,

Wherever And then gradually in your own time,

You can bring your awareness back to your body,

To the presence of your body in your surroundings.

Moving your hands,

Your feet,

You can then gradually open your eyes and come out of the meditation.

Thank you for that second.

Yes,

Thank you very much.

Pleasure.

Thank you.

Namaste.

Thank you,

Dada,

For joining us.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for joining us in the What Is Now experience.

We hope that you liked the episode.

If there were any insights or ideas arising for you as you were listening to our conversation,

Then you can share those ideas through your comments.

We would love to know.

Stay tuned for the next episode.

Namaste.

Reviews

what a beautiful gathering of beings just being. thank you for allowing this present moment with you ❤ 💖 💓

This episode will likely benefit my practice significantly. Plus, I really enjoyed it! The metaphors they shared brougt me to several "aha!" moments of understanding, and their generous sharing of their own understandings provided me with gentle encouragement. I will definitely listen to the other podcasts of What is Now. Thank you!