Wearing Grief Shoes With Lynda Cheldelin Fell

A premonition dream of her daughter's death was became reality in 2009 when Lynda Cheldelin Fell lost her third child, Aly, in a car accident. Shortly after, her husband suffered a stroke leaving him with permanent disabilities. This "double whammy" of grief brought Lynda to a place that she describes as "far more than the '5 Stages.'" We're talking about how grief turns us into 2.0 versions of ourselves and how our lives after loss are made up of collateral blessings.

Transcript

Linda,

Thank you so much for joining us on the show.

I'm so excited to hear your story and hear more about Grief Diaries,

Which is actually how I came to know you pre-Bereavement Cruise.

But if you could please start us off with your lost story today.

So my story begins in 2007 when I had a terrible dream of our daughter,

Our third born,

Died as a backseat passenger in a car that flew off the road into a lake.

And she sank with the car and I was devastated by it.

And two years later that dream became a real living nightmare when she died as a backseat passenger in a car coming home from a swim meet.

And she was 15 years old at the time and we had an older daughter and an older son and a younger son.

So she was number three out of four.

And it absolutely just shattered our family.

We had never been through any kind of hardship up until that point.

And I just remember feeling shocked and absolutely numb and a pain so deep there were no words to describe it.

And it felt like a language that you can't teach people.

It's something that has to be experienced for the sheer depth of it to be fully understood.

And just when I felt like I was finding my footing in life,

My husband,

46 years old at the time,

He really had buried his grief.

He was trying to be strong for me and the family and he just absolutely buried his grief.

And as a result,

He suffered a disabling stroke.

And once again,

My world just,

It was like the world that pulled the rug out from underneath me a second time.

And that is where my grief began,

First with losing our daughter and then with my husband's devastating stroke.

I'm kind of sitting absorbing this and drawing parallels to my own story because so often I write that the first good chunk of my life was idyllic,

Everything kind of went well,

I was on this linear path and everything was unfolding quote-unquote like it's supposed to.

And then when grief finally did hit,

It hit so close to home that everything just blew wide open.

You know,

That is how grief works when you have a profound loss.

It touches every part of your universe.

No part is spared.

And I think that is one of the hardest things to wrap your brain around when you haven't faced loss is that we think of it like an injury that heals with time.

And grief is not something that heals,

It is something you learn to move forward with it in your heart.

And you're a changed person.

It changes you entirely.

And you know,

It's again,

It's something that is so hard to understand until you find yourself beginning that journey on your own.

It's such a tough thing to walk through and experience firsthand.

I kind of want to explore your point of grief ripples out and affects everything.

And the question that's coming to mind for me right now is I guess what area of your life were you most surprised or kind of even annoyed that grief was infiltrating,

For lack of better phrasing?

You know,

I think truthfully,

It wasn't even irritation.

It was just such profound shock and such profound sadness.

And to discover that grief is not merely a loss of someone you love,

But that it absolutely refrains every part of your life.

Your whole being changes.

The core of your essence changes.

That is how deep grief goes.

And so was there one part where I was most annoyed or irritated at?

You know,

I think that if I have to put it in that context,

I think what surprised me the most was how it changed my relationships.

Friends,

Friends that I had known for a very long time,

They fell away.

But on the other side of that,

I also formed friendships with people that were unexpected.

And that's a beautiful collateral blessing that comes from grief.

And so the answer to that is losing friendships and relationships that you didn't expect to lose,

But then also gaining something that you didn't expect to gain.

That's something that I hear quite a bit on coming back in terms of the thing that was most surprising,

Because when grief happens,

Especially in books and in movies,

There's all these pictures of our closest friends all swooping into our aid.

And sometimes an additional layered loss on top of the biggie,

The big loss,

Is losing a lot of these close friends.

And then there are other people that kind of step up,

Not necessarily into those roles,

But as other legs of the table,

Other support systems for you.

But it's unexpected.

It's never as whole as it's portrayed in the media as a process.

You know,

And I think that that is sad.

I would love for them to do a better job,

Because on some level,

It's doing our society a disservice because we have,

You know,

In the movies,

We have this death and you see maybe one or two cuts of the loved ones crying or feeling sad,

And then they've moved on.

And,

You know,

So it paints this picture that for those of us that don't find our footing within one to two cuts,

Or,

You know,

One to two weeks or one to two months even,

That somehow we are,

You know,

Wallowing in our own sadness or,

You know,

We like the spotlight that brings us or,

You know,

It just really leaves.

Such an unfair picture of what grief really does to your whole world.

And so I would love to see it more adequately portrayed in the movies,

Because I think that that just does everyone a,

You know,

Detriment to what grief really is about.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That's something I refer to as the curse of moving on in 90 minutes.

Not wrong.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That's pretty much how most people think it is.

And I think that that's partly what inspired me to work in the bereavement field was because I saw that and it was so far from reality,

So far from the truth that I thought that if we don't do something about it in this generation,

Future generations are going to hear the same myths about grief.

And so we have to do something that helps to open that dialogue and educate people that,

You know,

Here's what,

Here's the truth about grief.

Here's how it changes your entire world.

And for some people,

That's not entirely true.

If they've had a second degree loss,

Or the hardest loss they've ever had is a loss that is one that is easily recoverable from,

Then,

You know,

They might not ever have the same experience that those of us who face a profound loss.

You know,

Loss of a parent can be shattering,

Loss of a child can be shattering,

Loss of a spouse can be shattering,

A sibling,

You know,

Those are ones that change your whole world.

And we certainly don't come back in 90 minutes,

And some people never come back at all.

Yes,

Or when we do come back,

We are different.

We never come back to ourselves how we used to be.

We come back to us different people.

Oh,

Yeah.

Oh,

My gosh,

I love that.

Oh,

It's like software.

Shelby 2.

0,

Linda 2.

0.

Oh,

My gosh,

I have never heard that.

I've loved that so much.

Yeah,

It fits,

Doesn't it?

But the truth is,

Is that with the 2.

0 version,

And the reason I say that is I remember early on when my dearest friends,

Who sat with me quite a bit in the aftermath,

She knew our daughter very well.

And she said to me,

This was very early on after losing our daughter,

Allie,

And she said to me,

She said,

I'm waiting for the old Linda to come back.

And I've never forgotten her words,

Because I wondered,

When am I going to come back?

Am I ever going to come back?

Because at that moment,

I was so in my head of pain.

You know,

I truly had pain brain where you've got tunnel vision,

You've got auditory exclusion,

The world was in,

You know,

Had been robbed of my Technicolor.

And so I didn't even know what would Linda even come back.

And the truth is,

Is that over time,

As I reassembled the,

You know,

Pieces of my shattered world,

And put them back into something that was,

You know,

Functional,

I discovered that the new me was actually a much better version of myself.

And that's something that I want to plant as a seed in people's hearts,

Is that don't be afraid of what the future looks like without your loved one,

In terms of will you ever feel unbroken again,

Because the new version of yourself that rises from the ashes can actually be beautiful.

You know,

It's a collateral blessings that come from loss,

Silver linings that you don't expect from such deep pain.

I love that phrase collateral blessings,

Because we're so used to hearing the phrase collateral damage,

The,

The all the things that get destroyed in the aftermath of loss.

And so to hear that there are things like collateral blessings,

Things that come that are good or unexpected or surprising or even positive in the aftermath of loss is,

As somebody who's been through loss,

That's something that's still comforting for me to hear five years later.

So I hope grief growers you're listening to that one this afternoon.

I actually want to revisit something that you mentioned earlier about getting involved in bereavement for the sake of future generations.

And I kind of want to construct a miniature timeline of your relationship with grief in this moment.

I'm wondering how you were raised to perceive,

Think about,

Talk about grief,

How you interacted with grief,

Pre the loss of your daughter and your husband's stroke and kind of how grief transformed your relationship with your children and grief friends and grief,

And then how you teach grief going forward.

What are you teaching the future generations about grief?

Well,

You know,

I had a very idyllic life up until we lost Allie.

And I was one of five kids,

A close knit loving family.

And my husband and I had four children.

And,

You know,

My husband is my best friend.

And raising our kids were very close to him.

And so grief was not part of my world.

It truly wasn't.

And what I didn't know is that it was part of other people's world.

And so it made me very uncomfortable.

I didn't like going to funerals.

I was one of those people who just really didn't know what to do with it,

Found it very awkward.

And when I suddenly found myself wearing grief shoes,

It was such a shock.

And part of it is,

Back in high school,

I did a project on Elizabeth Kubler-Ross about grieving and,

You know,

Death and dying.

Elizabeth Kubler-Ross,

Of course,

Is an iconic woman who pioneered many of the foundations of our current beliefs about death and grief.

What was interesting is she modeled the five stages of grief.

And that's what most people know her for.

But she had actually modeled that for patients who were dying of a terminal illness.

And unfortunately,

The media got hold of it,

And they applied it to the loved ones left behind.

And hence,

It became a model of five stages of grief for everyone.

And Elizabeth Kubler-Ross herself tried to undo that with the media.

And unfortunately,

It stuck.

And so when we lost Allie,

I expected myself to go through five neat and tidy stages of grief,

Because that's what I had believed was what happened and not having experienced it before.

And so when I didn't experience grief that way,

Because my stages were far more than five,

And they were not in order,

They were a hot mess.

And so I felt like I was failing grief.

And now,

I'm very passionate about helping people to understand that grief is life changing,

And it's okay to not be okay.

But you will,

Once again,

Eventually be okay.

And so I give them hope that you're not doing grief wrong.

And eventually,

It won't always feel so raw.

I'm writing down as you're speaking,

You are not failing at grief because you're not following the five stages.

And I think that's something that's still so pervasive.

And this is where we revisit,

You know,

Media and movies and television and magazines and all this other stuff again of they latch on to one thing.

And we I would love if grief were neat and structured.

Don't get me wrong,

I would love for it to just show up and be like,

Okay,

I'm in this stage for two months,

And this one for four,

And this one for a year,

And then blah,

Blah,

Blah,

And then you tie a bow on it,

And it's all done in 90 minutes.

And I just love,

I keep writing down things that you say,

Because you have these tidbits of things that you phrase a certain way.

And this feeling of failing at grief is just another layer that I feel like gets heaped on to the already heavy,

Heavy package that grief puts on our doorstep.

And we're like,

Oh,

On top of all this crap you have to deal with emotionally and physically and mentally,

And spiritually,

You have to deal with the fact that you think you're doing it all wrong.

And that's something that so many people experience,

But they struggle so much to put words to.

So I just thank you for saying it succinctly,

And it was perfect.

I was like,

That's another thing that I wish that I had heard in the aftermath of my own loss.

I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about what exactly you do in the world.

What is your work with bereavement,

Including how you got started with the Grief Diaries,

Which is how I first heard your name,

Actually through fellow Bereavement Cruise presenter,

Sharon Ehlers,

Who does Grief Reiki.

But you seem to have your hands in a lot of different projects,

And they're all hyper impactful in the world of grief.

Well,

Okay.

So it's true.

I have my hand in a lot of projects,

But it wasn't by design.

A lot of that was happenstance.

And I want to go back to what called me to serve in this field,

Because no child ever says they want to grow up to work in the bereavement field,

Right?

They do not offer Ph.

D.

From Grief.

Most of us who find ourselves working in this field,

It's because we're following a passion and wanting to be part of the movement of making change.

And so how I found myself here is that I had two gems,

Two nuggets of wisdom that I discovered very early on.

And the first one is that I discovered that not all grievers had the support that I was blessed with.

I was blessed with an abundance of support.

People surrounded my family and held that sacred space.

And that gave us the love that we needed to find our way,

Knowing that we were just broken.

And it was okay to just be broken.

But I discovered not everyone has that.

And quite a few bereaved individuals don't have any support at all,

Even from family members.

There's a lot of them that says,

Okay,

You're now two years out.

You should be dating,

Or this or that.

I often hear that.

That's one of the first things you hear for people who've lost a spouse.

When are you going to start dating?

That kind of thing.

And so when I realized that not all grievers had the support I had,

That was the first seed planted in my heart.

The second one was that I discovered that helping others help my own heart to heal.

And so the pairing of those two seeds became a very powerful balm for my heart.

And they also became the catalyst that birthed this passion to make a difference,

Because many people don't have support.

And it was painful enough to find my way surrounded by an abundance of support.

I could not imagine what it was like for those who didn't have any.

And when I realized that if I put my arms around them to hold them,

Something shifted in my own heart.

And it helped my own heart to heal.

And so those two little gems,

Those two little nuggets are what called me to serve in this field.

And how Greek Diaries came about,

Just my quick little version of it.

I won't give you the whole nine months.

I'll just give you the birth.

In 2013,

I was invited to share my story in a book that was being published out of London.

And the book was about women who had been through hardship and had found their footing.

And so not only were we tasked with writing our story,

We were tasked with giving the reader five takeaways.

And that was the hardest part for me.

What could I offer?

But it made me also examine the different parts of my journey.

Because I was tasked with coming up with five takeaways that they could then apply to their own life.

And that book,

When it was published and came out,

It hit number one on Amazon in three different categories in three different countries.

And so that was when I became an international best-selling author.

And from there,

I founded my own media company.

And I created Greek Diaries Radio because I felt like grief needed a voice.

If we were going to collectively make change so that future generations didn't continue to believe that there's five neat and tidy stages to grief,

It was up to us to do something about it.

So I created Greek Diaries Radio and then I created a live show where I went around the nation interviewing different people.

And then once they were aired live,

Then they were turned into YouTube videos.

And from there,

I went on to found the International Grief and Hope Convention in 2015.

And that was a three-day weekend.

We had,

I want to say,

12 speakers.

Some really,

Really cool speakers,

Martin Luther King's daughter,

Heaven is for Real pastor Todd Burpo,

O.

J.

Simpson's former sister-in-law,

Tanya Brown.

Some really incredible,

Empowering speakers.

And as my husband and I flew out from there,

I thought,

What am I going to do with all these stories that I heard?

Because people who are complete strangers came together and discovered commonality through their grief.

They would say,

I lost my child this day and oh,

I lost my child that same day,

Too.

I mean,

Who would have thought?

And so the idea for putting all these stories into a book series was my solution to that.

And of course,

It was named Grief Diaries.

And it really,

I've got over 700 writers in 11 countries.

We've published over 30 books.

And it's just incredible,

Very empowering for these people.

And it heals both reader and writer.

So I feel very blessed to have done that.

I think that's so neat that you said it heals both reader and writer because that's an experience that I've had as well.

I posted something on my Instagram a couple of weeks ago about producing Coming Back as a podcast.

And I'm at a point in time in my life where I'm working on my own book.

And there's lots of things going on in my personal life.

And I got a promotion at work.

So things are just really busy.

Things are really busy.

And doing a podcast,

I'm sure as you know,

Doing something in broadcasting is almost like having another relationship on the side.

Because you have to continue to keep showing up for it on a consistent basis.

Releasing every Wednesday at 1230 AM.

And it was one of those posts where I was like,

I'm stubbornly going to keep showing up for this.

Because when I show up for this work,

I'm also showing up for my own grief.

So as I record the podcast for all of you to listen to,

I am also speaking to parts of me that have not yet seen or known healing.

And that occurs in my writing as well.

And it's what you said earlier,

Helping others helps yourself.

And so many clichés get tossed around in the world of grief.

But I think this one is one that has a core of truth in it.

This isn't,

You know,

She's in a better place.

This is taking action to remind somebody else that they're not alone.

Also reminds you that you aren't alone.

And it's almost like that connection is a remedy or a balm for the loneliness and the isolation that grief tends to produce.

Very true.

Very true.

And it's true,

You know,

Helping others to help your own heart to heal can be applied to many things in life.

And,

You know,

Many people are caught up in their own head.

That pain brain and where you've got just that tunnel vision and you're only aware of your own little world.

And when you help others,

You go outside your world and you realize you're not alone.

Everyone has some form of grief one way or another.

And you can't compare grief,

But you realize that,

You know,

Let's say you go out and you help someone,

You help the homeless.

You feed them in a soup kitchen.

You realize that,

Sure,

You have a profound loss and you can't get that person back into your life in a living way ever again.

You're now connected through the heart.

And,

You know,

You'd give anything just to,

You know,

Kiss them on the cheek once again or give them a hug.

But when you go and help others,

Such as,

You know,

The homeless people,

You realize you're not the only one who's suffering.

And that helps to remove that sense of isolation.

It helps you to feel less alone.

And that's pretty empowering.

Yeah,

Yeah,

I think that's,

Yeah,

Very well said.

There is power in recognizing that you are not alone in this.

That you're not the only one suffering,

Yeah.

Yes,

Yeah.

I'm actually reading at the moment,

I think I just posted this on my Instagram.

I'm talking a lot about my Instagram today.

I'm reading right now,

I don't know how to pronounce her name.

Her name is Sue Klebold or Klebold.

She's the mother of Dylan Klebold,

Who was one of the shooters and one of the victims in the Columbine massacre.

I'm reading her memoir at the moment and she shares this incredible kind of story of the Buddha.

But she's talking about once she,

You know,

Entered this whirlwind of,

I am the mother of a murderer.

People kept telling her these stories and these fables and one that she clung to was one of the Buddha,

Where this woman had lost a child and she was grieving the loss of this child and couldn't believe it had happened to her.

And just kind of soaking and marinating in misery.

And he said,

I'll tell you the cure for your misery.

And he said,

But first you must go to the homes of five different people.

You must knock on all the doors you can and collect five mustard seeds.

But they must all be from the homes of people who have never suffered.

And every single door that she knocked on and opened,

She said,

Hi,

I'm here collecting mustard seeds.

Have you experienced a loss in your life?

And she couldn't collect a single one.

And what she realized is not that there was a cure for the pain that she was feeling,

But that there was no one that surrounded her who was not also suffering in some way or had not lost someone meaningful to them.

And it was just an interesting tidbit in this book and an interesting,

You know,

Myth or fable or story that exists out in the world.

But I was like,

If that isn't the truth,

We go searching for fixes and cures and answers and solutions to grief,

Which is not really a thing that can be fixed or solutioned or cured away.

Something you said earlier in the show,

Grief is not something that heals.

It's something that you take with you,

You take forward.

Right,

Right.

It becomes part of the tapestry of your heart.

And I think,

You know,

In referencing early on in the conversation about the different myths out there,

You know,

Many people who have not experienced that grief feel that it's something that is curable.

And,

You know,

Again,

Like a broken leg and you'll be back to your old self,

You know,

In a year or what have you.

And the truth is,

Is that especially when you face a traumatic loss,

And a traumatic loss is one where,

You know,

It was sudden,

Unexpected,

A traumatic type of death.

I don't remember the first two and a half years.

I really don't because that's what your brain goes through.

Your brain is flooded with that fight or flight hormones that,

You know,

We all have.

And the problem with a traumatic loss is that your brain is flooded with that not just for a moment as it's designed for,

But for,

You know,

It takes you.

You're in fear for quite a while.

You're in,

You know,

Shock and such.

And so what it does is it numbs other parts of your brain and that's where you get that tunnel vision,

Auditory exclusion,

And things come back like a strobe light rather than a storyline.

And so,

You know,

People who think that we get over it,

It's something that we learn to move forward with.

The rawness does soften with time and our coping skills strengthen with time.

Those are two key things to know.

And as hard as it is in the beginning,

Where you,

At least I remember thinking that my world will never feel right again.

My world will never be without this horrible,

Horrible pain again.

But the truth is,

Is that down the road,

Your world can be full of joy and beauty again.

But it's not something that we're going to,

You know,

Get over in a year.

It takes time to find our way and to find what,

You know,

That 2.

0 version of ourself,

Who that person is and what does life look like.

But I also believe very strongly that you have to be proactive.

And what I mean by that is that you have to do things that help you process your loss.

It helps you to process your grief.

And,

You know,

Proactive things would be like going to support groups,

Meeting other people who have shared your lost language.

And,

You know,

For instance,

Like you,

You know,

For other people who shared the same kind of loss that you do,

It's just an unspoken language.

And for people who lose a loved one to suicide,

Say,

When they meet other people who've lost a loved one to suicide,

They get each other.

They speak that same lost language.

So you've got to do things that help you put baby steps forward because baby steps are still progress,

Right?

And so doing things to help you process your grief and doing things to help you,

You know,

At least get yourself out of bed every day will help you to find your way.

And so if you don't do those things,

It takes a lot longer to find your footing again in life.

And I think it's important to,

You know,

Not shy away from the grief to do things that are proactive to help you heal.

Because if I can find the joy and beauty in life again,

Anybody can.

It can be done.

And I want your listeners to know that,

That there is hope.

And even if they don't feel it today,

At least open your heart to the idea that hope is around every corner,

Even if you've missed one.

I want to jump all the way back to the beginning of our conversation and really quickly touch on the dream that you had about your daughter's death and kind of visit the idea of premonition and the relationship that you have with dreams now,

Things that come to you.

Because hearing your story for the first time,

I would be like,

I would be very scared of going to sleep anymore,

Having dreams that were even remotely close to nightmares,

Again,

Especially about people I loved.

So I'm curious as to how that's unfolded for you,

Both with her death and beyond.

Well,

The truth is,

Is that I feel like it was a heads up.

And when the accident happened in real life,

I had the honor of getting to sit with my daughter's body at the scene of the accident.

And that was kind of happenstance.

That doesn't normally happen.

And I remember sitting there with her and all the first responders,

Law enforcement,

Firefighters,

They took a step back and they performed the semicircle around me.

And no one stopped me.

And they just observed those moments that I had with my daughter,

Those final moments.

And I remember at some point,

Of course,

Time stands still when you're in shock,

Right?

And you've got that warped sense of time.

And so I don't know how long I sat there.

But I remember at one point looking up into the dark field in front of me,

And I saw my grandmother leading my daughter away.

And my grandmother was someone that I had loved my whole life.

I saw it just about every day of my life growing up.

And it was very comforting for me to see that.

And so in my mind,

I'm thinking,

Okay,

Between that dream,

And between this vision of knowing that my grandmother's taken Allie to heaven,

You know,

That brought me a lot of comfort.

And so as scary as that dream was at the time,

Two years before the real accident happened,

In looking back,

It's brought me comfort that it was a heads up,

That this was meant to be,

This was the path.

And so I do not fear going to bed at night and dreaming.

I did fear going to bed at night early on after the accident,

Because that was when the house became quiet,

And I was lost in my own thoughts.

There was nothing about chores or children or grandchildren to distract me.

And that was a horrific time.

But in terms of dreams,

I've had quite a few dreams of Allie since then,

And in every single one,

She's reminding me that this is our path,

And that she is here right beside me.

And so they bring me tremendous comfort.

And I'm very grateful.

That's such a neat transformation and perspective on it.

And it just speaks to as well how everyone interprets their experience in their own way.

See,

For me,

Something like that would be horrifying,

But for you,

It was comforting because you had the full scope and then your grandmother came in and it was,

You know these people,

You have this feeling that this is the path and this is the journey.

And so it can provide you with different expectations and different perspective on what dreams are and what they mean to you.

I want to move forward into seeing you and being on board with you on the Bereavement Cruise in March.

So if you could please enlighten our listeners as to what workshop you'll be teaching on board,

As well as maybe a little bit of how you got involved with the cruise in the first place.

Well,

I'm super excited because I've never been on a cruise.

Oh,

That is exciting.

And they promised me that I won't sink.

You know,

My husband has been trying to get me on a cruise for some time.

I have a tendency toward seasickness.

And so it's like,

No,

No,

No,

You know,

We just fly wherever we need to go.

We've been to Costa Rica.

He's from Australia,

So we've been there,

Of course,

A few times.

And,

You know,

Wherever we need to go,

We just fly.

And so the idea of taking a ship,

A boat,

Was like,

No.

And so the cruise coordinators had been inviting me for a couple of years and I'm like,

No,

No,

No.

And so Glenn Lord and I were together in Arizona at the end of February of this year.

And there was a large group of us having dinner and Glenn,

I once again put it on the table.

And it must have been the glass of wine because I said,

Sure.

And so,

And Linda Finley,

Who founded this cruise,

Is an incredible lady.

I mean,

She,

You know,

Working alongside her,

We coordinated an event for the Parkland students down in Florida this last May.

And she's such a gem of a person.

And so,

You know,

Going on this cruise and working alongside her and all the other wonderful speakers such as yourself actually is going to be a real treat.

And I will be giving two presentations and then a personal time.

And that personal time is called Lady Time with Linda and Linda.

And we refer to ourselves as the West Coast Linda and the East Coast Linda.

I'm on the East Coast,

I'm on the West Coast.

And so Lady Time is just a group setting for ladies only.

And we can talk authentically and candidly without fear of,

You know,

Our husbands or partners in the room,

Our children in the room.

You know,

It's just a time for us to talk about the challenges that we face as bereaved women.

And that is going to be – I'm really looking forward to that because those are some of the most powerful interactions and very healing for everyone.

And then I will also be presenting Playbook of Hope,

The Ten Tenants of Restoring Happiness,

Which I'm very excited about,

As well as Hugs from Heaven.

And,

You know,

Interacting with Ellie in heaven has been ongoing since the moment she passed.

And it's not just me.

You know,

I have a very large family and many people in our family have had experiences that are hard for even the naysayers to,

You know,

Say,

Ah,

That can't be,

That's just a coincidence.

And so I'm real excited to help people examine the different ways that our loved ones interact with us from heaven because it's very healing and,

You know,

Grief,

It doesn't cure grief,

But it can bring tremendous comfort.

And that's what we're all doing is we are working together to offer comfort to those people who come on the cruise and,

You know,

Knowing many of the presenters already,

Anybody who joins us is going to create memories that they will cherish for life.

And so I'm super excited.

That's such a great collection of items.

I'm like,

This sounds like a good time.

Like,

Let's do it.

It will be.

It will be.

And that's the thing about grief is that,

You know,

We're going to be doing a lot of laughing.

It's not going to be,

You know,

Seven nights on this five star cruise ship where we're going to be sitting and crying.

Grief is about experiencing many different emotions and laughter is a wonderful healing modality in itself.

And so I'm a big fan of laughter and you can't get some of these people together.

I've been with quite a few of them and there's a lot of laughter.

We have a good time.

And that is what I want people who join us take away from it.

That this was life changing for them.

This is going to be life changing and creating those memories that are filled with things that they will take forever and move forward with.

You know,

Moments that they're going to treasure.

And that is going to be a wonderful gift that we can give them.

And I'm super excited about it.

Very excited.

So,

Yes,

Laughter is a big part of that.

I'm excited about that.

And there's this perception sometimes that grief support is everybody sitting in a circle together and staring at each other until one of us cries.

And I'm like,

This is the exact opposite of that.

This is very much a conversational experience,

An interactive experience,

And also one that's going to be full of remembering positive memories and creating new ones.

So,

Yeah,

I'm very excited.

As the day draws closer,

I'm just vibrating with excitement because it's going to be so much fun.

We are going to raise the vibration of that whole cruise ship.

No,

Isn't that the coolest thing?

That's going to be the coolest thing.

Yeah.

I'm so excited.

Very excited.