The Power And The Pitfalls Of Gratitude Practice | Sangha

Gratitude is one of the most beautiful practices we can cultivate — it opens the heart, brings us into the present moment, and smooths out the highs and lows of life. But like every spiritual practice, gratitude also has its pitfalls.

In this Dharma talk, we explore both sides of gratitude:

How gratitude transforms ordinary “boring” moments into precious ones

Why gratitude deepens joy and helps us savor the good without clinging

The shadow side of gratitude — when it becomes a way to bypass pain or feed the ego

How to practice gratitude with wisdom and compassion so it supports awakening

Gratitude, when practiced wisely, can be a doorway to freedom. When misused, it can become another tool of the ego. Together, let’s learn how to use this practice skillfully so it truly nurtures peace, compassion, and wisdom.

Transcript

And I thought we would also just talk about gratitude,

Because gratitude really is such a wonderful practice to open us to wisdom and compassion,

Right?

It can really take all those mundane moments,

Those moments we're waiting in line,

And we're just bored.

There's nothing going on,

And how we tend to focus so quickly on how the negativity of that moment,

Of what it is that we feel is missing in that moment,

Exaggerating it,

Kind of making just these mundane moments really unpleasant.

Because we focus.

Our focus is so narrow,

Instead of opening our focus to what it is that's here,

Right?

It's like that if we're having a boring moment,

Right?

How many times do we run around frantically and think,

Gosh,

I just wish there was nothing going on.

And then we get the boring moment,

We get the moment where there's nothing going on,

And then we're like,

Oh,

I'm bored,

Something's wrong.

And we start comparing to everyone else's lives and thinking there's something wrong,

Instead of recognizing like,

Yay,

Yay,

There's nothing going on right now,

This is great.

I can do whatever I want to do,

Or I can do nothing,

Fantastic.

So just in even having the gratitude for what's here,

There's nothing going on,

Fantastic.

We can appreciate that,

And it tends to open us up to what's here in this moment,

Instead of closing us down into what's here.

And thank you,

Randolph,

For the donation,

Thank you.

And so,

Yeah,

So boring moments when there's nothing happening,

Or even just those moments,

Maybe you're with a friend,

Maybe you're traveling,

Maybe you're with family.

And even as exciting as it is,

Seeing family,

Going on holiday,

Being with friends,

There's little down moments there.

And we tend to then think,

Oh,

I've got to rush through this,

Right?

And we forget,

We forget in that moment,

Wow,

This moment is precious,

I won't always be with this person.

And so no matter what we're doing,

We're at the grocery store,

We're unpacking the groceries,

Or we're just having a quiet moment,

It's special,

It's precious,

It's fleeting.

And so with gratitude,

We bring more gratitude to those moments as well,

Remembering how fleeting and precious each moment really is,

Instead of thinking like it's just the highlight moments,

Those are the moments to have gratitude.

But no,

It actually brings in,

It really changes our experience for all the mundane moments,

Which is a big chunk of our lives,

Mundane moments.

It really opens up,

You know,

All the pauses in there,

All the waiting in there,

All these little moments that we take for granted,

It just opens our attention up to look for what's here instead of focusing on what's not here.

So it really brings a sense of appreciation to all of these moments that we tend to think of as benign,

But actually,

There's so much more going on,

We just have to get out of that habit of that narrow focus.

So bringing gratitude into more mundane moments,

But also bringing gratitude into the good conditions,

Right,

Where we do kind of,

We'll bring it in,

But bringing it in in a way that like,

When you've got a new promotion,

You got a big bonus at work,

You got some recognition or some praise,

Maybe you're experiencing new love,

And you're kind of feeling the excitement of all of that,

The more that we can bring gratitude into that moment,

Like really savoring like the impermanence of this moment,

But also just really coming in to open up to feel what's here,

Because often those high moments,

Those very exciting moments can be quite overwhelming,

Right?

It can almost be too much,

The excitement is too much,

We don't know what to do with it.

So it's in a way that it allows us to come into it,

To feel it,

To savor it,

To open up to it.

And it prevents any attachment coming in,

Because we know how quickly that happens too,

When something's going really well,

We want to hold on to it,

We want to make it stay,

Right?

And the more that we do that,

The more quickly it runs away from us.

So in bringing gratitude to the really good moments in our lives,

To that new love,

In bringing gratitude,

It opens us up to it,

It smooths it out,

Right?

So when we have those little moments,

When it kind of tapers off just a little bit,

Just a little bit,

There's no panic,

Right?

There's just,

Oh yeah,

There's gratitude.

Yeah,

Of course,

This is what's going to happen.

And then as it just smooths those edges out,

Right?

There's no longer,

It's this grasping,

Oh my God,

It's going away.

Like,

No,

No,

No,

It's just,

It's just having that little ebb and flow,

Which is so normal,

So normal.

So gratitude,

Bringing in wisdom and compassion to those really good conditions,

Where it allows us to really savor what's here,

To be with what's here,

To not grasp at it.

And ironically enough,

Again,

Not grasping at it,

We end up extending it,

Right?

Because it doesn't become this big high and then this big low.

It's just that,

Oh yeah,

We ride the ebbs and the flows.

And again,

At any moment,

We can just come back into that appreciation of it,

Right?

Like,

Yeah,

Yeah,

It's changed a little bit.

You know,

It's not quite as the excitement up here,

But it's still,

I mean,

Anything that's opening our heart with gratitude and appreciation,

It feels so good.

It feels so wonderful.

So really bringing in more gratitude into the good conditions as a way to help us savor what's here,

To open up to what's here,

To smooth out the ebb and flow of what's arising.

And then,

Of course,

There's also the misuse of gratitude when it comes to the unpleasant conditions,

Right?

That we're feeling some sickness,

We're feeling sad,

We're feeling,

Maybe we're experiencing some grief.

And in that unpleasant feeling,

We'll often use gratitude as a way when we're misusing it to kind of jump over our feelings,

Right?

When it's kind of this more like,

I should feel grateful,

Right?

So if you're feeling sick,

Where,

You know,

It's kind of like,

Oh,

I should feel grateful that I'm alive.

Like,

I hurt this hand,

But I should feel grateful that I still have this hand.

Or if we're feeling grief,

That this kind of shouldness of gratitude where,

But I should be grateful that that person was in my life at all,

Or in the comparison and the guilt that I should be grateful because I really have such good conditions.

I shouldn't feel bad.

I should never feel sad.

I shouldn't feel depressed because I have so much.

I should feel grateful.

And of course,

There's no wisdom.

There's no compassion in that,

Right?

We're just trying to jump over our feelings.

Gratitude is not the right practice in those conditions.

I mean,

In that,

In those experiences,

What we want to bring is nurturing and care,

Mindfulness,

Being with our feelings,

Self-compassion,

Right?

Moving closer to what it is that's here.

And again,

Because if we bring wisdom and compassion to our feelings,

Not trying to skip over them,

Then the gratitude will come,

Right?

If you're able to be with your sickness,

With self-compassion and really care for yourself and bring kindness,

Right?

Then the gratitude will naturally arise of like,

Yeah,

But I am alive,

Right?

It could be worse,

Right?

But it's not a should,

It's now it's naturally arising because you were able to be with the feelings,

Right?

If you were able to be with your feelings of grief,

Of losing someone,

Right?

Because you're with them,

Because you allowed yourself to feel what it is that's here,

Because you moved closer to it.

Naturally,

There will be those moments in the ebb and flow again,

Of some gratitude again,

That they were in your life,

Right?

And it may not stay,

It might come back into some into,

Again,

Back into the feelings of grief.

But you let the ebb and flow of gratitude come in by bringing wisdom and compassion to what it is that you're feeling,

Not trying to jump over anything.

Because we're often using our practices as a way to avoid feeling what's here,

Spiritual bypassing,

Right?

Or even just making gratitude somehow,

Like transactional.

And I remember I had a,

There was a friend of mine down here a couple years ago,

Something got stolen.

It was either out of her truck or the house she was renting.

And she was telling me about what happened.

And she's like,

But you know what,

I just felt such gratitude in my heart for what was still there.

And,

And that I wasn't there and I didn't get hurt.

And I felt such gratitude.

And you know what,

My things all turned up.

And she was starting to kind of connect that because I kept an open heart of gratitude,

I got something out of it.

I got everything back.

And I felt like it was kind of,

I mean,

I didn't say this to her,

But it kind of felt like it was making it somewhat transactional.

Because we,

We tend to think like on a spiritual path,

I should never feel disappointment.

I should only feel,

Oh,

If they took it,

Well,

Then they must need it more.

Right.

And I'm not saying that that's not a bad way to respond.

But if it's masking feelings,

And then again,

If we're not able to acknowledge our disappointment,

But if we're then kind of connecting it to,

Well,

Because I was,

Because I felt grateful,

I got it all back,

Right?

We're,

We're turning gratitude into something transactional.

Right.

So we have to be careful because with every one of our practices,

I mean,

Every spiritual practice has a shadow side to it,

Right?

They should all come with a little label that says,

You know,

Can cause,

You know,

Can feed the ego,

Be careful,

Can cause more egoness,

Right?

Can feel,

Cause more separateness.

Because every single practice has that capability,

Right?

This is what we talk about constantly,

Right?

Is that the shadow side of spirituality,

Like,

I love spirituality,

I love the practices,

But we do have to keep being reminded of how the ego comes in and takes it over,

Right?

The ego coming in with the,

I should feel grateful,

The ego coming in with,

Well,

Look,

You were grateful,

And then look what you got back,

Right?

As a way of making,

Making it just more ego.

I mean,

I can't think of a single spiritual practice that does not have a shadow side.

Compassion,

Guilt,

Being the shadow side,

Right?

If we,

If we look at,

If we look at someone that's suffering,

And then we feel guilt in our heart,

We look at a homeless person and we think,

Oh,

I'm opening my heart with compassion,

But I'm feeling guilt as though I'm responsible.

That's not compassion.

And it's going to close our hearts up really quickly.

That's just the ego making it more about me,

Right?

It's always making it about me,

Right?

So that's not compassion.

So we have to be careful there.

Mindfulness,

Mindfulness,

Even mindfulness where,

Where we,

We kind of turn it into a perfection game.

I should never be mindless.

I'm a spiritual practitioner.

I practice mindfulness.

I should never be mindless.

But in fact,

Mindfulness as a practice,

It's always coming in after a moment of mindlessness.

It's always,

It's not coming in before,

It's always coming in after.

So mindlessness is a part of it,

Right?

And we want to be able to laugh at ourselves when we have a mindless moment.

We want to be able to joke about it.

We want to be able to be,

Um,

Uh,

Uh,

Not take it so seriously because otherwise it's just the ego becoming more mindful,

Right?

And becoming this kind of walking around with,

Oh,

I'm so mindful.

I'm so mindful.

And it's like,

No,

Your ego's just kind of announcing to everyone you're mindful,

But you're really just being rigid and you're being judgmental,

Judgmental to yourself and judgmental to everyone else.

Look how mindless they all are,

Right?

So there's just,

There's not a single practice that I can think of that does not have a shadow side to it that shouldn't,

That should come without a warning.

They all have a warning and gratitude is no different.

It is in the unpleasant conditions.

If we are using gratitude,

Um,

You know,

I should be feeling grateful.

I'm trying to mask my feelings,

My hurt,

My disappointment,

My envy,

My jealousy,

You know,

Whatever it is,

My shame,

My guilt,

If I'm using gratitude to mask any of those feelings,

That is just more ego.

It is just more ego.

So it's not appropriate in those situations.

We want to bring mindfulness.

We want to bring self-compassion.

We want to be able to be with those feelings to not,

Not shame ourselves,

Not pretend like I shouldn't feel these things because these are the,

These are the feelings in the culture in our society,

Right?

They are very dominant in our culture.

They wouldn't be dominant in more native cultures,

Uh,

That live more harmoniously with,

Uh,

With the environment,

With each other.

If you even just think of like Native American cultures that lived hundreds of years ago,

You know,

It wouldn't be,

You know,

Jealousy,

Envy,

Regret,

Guilt,

Shame.

These would not be dominant feelings,

Emotions in those cultures.

These are dominant feelings and emotions in a,

In an egocentric individualized society,

Right?

So they're not yours.

They're not your emotions.

They're not your thoughts.

They're not your feelings.

This is what's going around.

We're all the result of the causes and conditions of what's coming around us.

So it's good for us to remember this.

Like,

No,

It's okay.

Feel it.

Don't feel more shame because you feel shame.

Come in and feel it.

Don't bring gratitude into this.

Don't try and mask over it with gratitude.

So we want to make sure that we're really bringing gratitude in where we should be bringing it into all the mundane moments,

All the,

The,

The,

The boring moments that there's nothing going on moments,

Right?

Bring it in there,

Right?

That's appropriate.

Bring it into the good conditions,

Right?

In it to really expand upon what it is that you're feeling in a way that,

That helps you be with it without getting overwhelmed by it.

And again,

Smoothing it out,

Smoothing out the ebb and the flow,

Right?

So just really making sure that we're,

I think gratitude is a beautiful practice.

I love gratitude.

I think it's a wonderful way of being of just appreciation for just the simple little things,

Like the simple little things in life too.

It's just so wonderful to be grateful.

I mean,

Many of us have very good conditions and we should feel grateful for that.

We shouldn't feel guilty for it.

Guilty doesn't help anyone,

Right?

But,

But to feel grateful for it and,

And in that gratitude,

Right,

Really opening us up to what's here,

Opening us up to where we can help,

Opening up to,

Um,

You know,

What we can do for others.

It,

It,

It takes us out of it and allows us to really meet the moment.

But we do want to be using gratitude appropriately.

Like we want to be using all of our practices appropriately for the right situation.

And just to make sure that we're not using them as another way to feed the ego.

That would be a real waste of a beautiful practice.

So gratitude,

Um,

But not to mask anything,

Not you should feel gratitude,

Not to mask your feelings,

Not to jump over to bypass things,

Right?

Really make sure that you're using it in a way that is bringing forth wisdom and compassion,

Not more ego,

Right?

It should be leading to more wisdom and compassion.

Yeah,

And gratitude is a beautiful practice.

But we don't want to,

We don't want to misuse it.

We don't want to misuse it.

Okay.

And I do see there's some comments there.

Yeah,

Oh,

Neil,

That was really nice.

Just saying you're grateful for being able to connect to yourself as a being of peace and to receive power from the divine.

It keeps you sane.

Yes,

I mean,

More gratitude.

I,

I find a lot of gratitude for our practice.

Yeah.

I mean,

How wonderful that we have these tools,

Right?

I mean,

I didn't have these tools when I was young.

When I was a teenager,

I wish I did.

I wish I did have these tools then.

But I'm grateful that I have them now,

Right?

So we can just have great gratitude for that.

Yeah.

I'll just go back here.

Hi,

Libby.

I'm glad to see you there.

Yes,

And Neil,

Also just your previous comment.

Charity begins at home.

We can't give from an empty cup.

That's absolutely true.

If we can't have compassion for ourselves,

If we can't,

So I guess,

Yeah,

I'm coming kind of more from a compassion on that.

But if we can't open our hearts to what it is that's here,

We can't open our hearts to anyone else either.

We always assume that somehow we can compartmentalize our practice.

I can close my heart over here to myself,

But I can be open to everyone else.

And it's,

It's again,

Actually,

It's just usually the ego kind of in the people-pleasing mode.

You know,

Feeling good about itself through getting praise or some kind of recognition.

Again,

Not coming from the right place.

There's so much.

I mean,

We do see this again and again.

I know I do sound a bit like a broken record on this,

But it is true.

Our practices,

Spirituality has just become so misused in,

And I'm going to say in predominantly in the West,

Where it's just the ego just loves it.

And loves to lord it over other people as I'm more conscious than you.

I'm more grateful than you.

I do more,

I meditate longer than you.

I'm more mindful than you.

It,

It's really,

It's really,

I mean,

Mind boggling just how much the ego has taken over spiritual practice.

And I do think,

And probably why I say this a lot,

Because I think it's to also counteract the,

The messaging that's going out about how much of how spirituality has been taken over by the ego.

You know,

I mean,

It's become,

It's,

It's become big business.

It has become big business.

And,

And I think it's something that we do need to be very,

Very careful of.

I mean,

We should also,

We should think about the fact that,

I mean,

There are millions of spiritual seekers and very little awakening relative to the number of spiritual seekers.

I mean,

People have been meditating 10,

20,

30,

40,

50 years and still getting triggered because someone parked in the wrong spot or because someone looked at them the wrong way.

Right?

I mean,

We should question why is this happening?

These are beautiful practices,

Beautiful teachings.

We have to be very careful that the ego isn't slipping in.

Very careful.

And I think you will find there's better results.

Yeah.

And Logan,

I agree with what you're saying.

Yeah.

A feeling is a feeling,

A thought is a thought.

They're just constantly changing,

Coming and going,

Not yours,

Just the causes and conditions of what's arising,

Right?

The culture that they're arising in,

How you're feeling in that particular moment,

How your neurochemistry is,

What your hormones are doing,

Whether you're hungry or not,

Right?

They just,

They come and they go.

But we get so attached to them as my thoughts,

My feelings,

My emotions,

Right?

Oh my God,

I was feeling good a minute ago and now I'm not feeling well again.

You know,

I'm not feeling good anymore.

Oh no,

Something's wrong.

It's like just a thought that just came out,

Right?

Maybe you were feeling a lot of gratitude in one moment and then it starts to come off and the ego's like,

Oh,

Here's my chance.

It's like,

Don't go feeling too good there.

You need me,

Right?

It's always convincing us.

You need me,

You would be hopeless without me.

You'd be hopeless.

What would you do without me?

Me,

The ego,

Right?

We do,

We think that without the ego,

That we would just,

We'd have no motivation,

We'd have no drive,

We wouldn't do anything.

We would,

As Eckhart Tolle says,

Turn into just a head of cabbage.

And we're giving the ego way too much credit,

Right?

Because first of all,

Right,

Just because we're doing doesn't mean that there's a doer,

Right?

This is the whole thing that we keep implying.

Because I'm doing something,

There's a doer.

Because I'm thinking something,

There's a thinker.

Because I'm thinking about myself,

I'm assuming that I have always been here,

Right?

There's just this assumption that I've just always been here.

So,

You know,

What we're always implying,

In fact,

Paul Hederman just puts this beautifully,

That yeah,

Like,

You know,

Whatever the activity is,

We're implying there's a noun behind it,

We're implying there's something behind it.

But we just,

It's just this assumption that we make,

Right?

But before the thought Meredith arises,

There was something before that.

Something before the thought of Meredith.

Right?

And that's,

Right,

That's,

You know,

Nothing.

There's no words that can really describe this accurately.

But what's most often translated as awareness,

Right?

The awareness that's always here,

The background,

The screen that all of this is playing out on,

Right?

That the awareness is here,

A thought Meredith appears.

And then I assume because I'm thinking about myself that I was there before the thought.

I'm only there when the thought appeared,

Right?

And so there's always this assumption behind I'm always here.

And so if Meredith's not appearing,

If the ego is not appearing,

The sense of self,

Separateness,

If it's not appearing,

Then I would just fall apart,

I would do nothing.

But even just the flow state,

I mean,

That right there refutes it.

The flow state,

Which is often attributed to athletics,

But anything that you're really engaged in,

If you're really engaged in,

In writing,

Like some,

You know,

Sometimes,

For those of us that write,

Like,

You'll just find the words are just flowing out,

Maybe it's poetry,

Or maybe it's art.

You know,

It could just be a spreadsheet,

It could just be doing coding.

But when you're really engaged in the activity,

Right?

And there's no me,

There's no narrating about it.

There's no thinking about it.

What will they think of this?

Am I doing a good job?

I need to do it faster,

Right?

There's no commenting on it.

There's no judging on it.

There's no me in it.

We actually perform at our best.

Right?

When we have that moment,

And you've been,

You've been working on something,

And you really you're,

You're just there with whatever it is.

Again,

There's no commenting,

No narrating on it.

And then someone comes to get you.

And so it's like,

Oh,

Hey,

It's time to go.

And you're like,

My God,

Where did the time go?

Where did the time go?

I was working on this,

And then what,

Three hours just went by?

Right?

And then what's always described in the,

In the,

In the sense of flow,

And everyone's had this,

Is the absence of me.

Right?

Because me,

Meredith,

The separate self,

Is tied to time.

And then when it goes,

You know,

Time goes,

All of a sudden life is like,

Oh,

My God,

I mean,

Think about how much we live life under the burden of time.

I've always got to get this done.

I've got to get to the next thing.

I've got to get that done.

Right?

We're always thinking it's a race of time,

And it feels horrible.

Right?

That's the ego.

Right?

That's living as the separate self,

As a little imagine me that's got to get somewhere.

Right?

I'm in the,

The little game,

The VR headset,

And Super Mario is trying to get to the next thing,

Like for what?

He's just missing everything.

Right?

So we're so lost in the sense of me all the time,

And rushing from one thing to the next,

And believing that somehow this is making us better,

And that this is what's motivating us,

And that this is what's giving us the drive.

It's just slowing us down.

It's just making life a burden.

It's just carrying an extra 50 pounds on your back.

It's not making us better.

Because when we go into those states,

When we are truly in the moment,

And just doing the dishes,

You're just cleaning the house,

You're vacuuming,

Right?

And you're really in the moment.

There's no merit up there.

Right?

We love this state.

We love this state of flow,

Of being in the moment.

Right?

That we're always attributing that why I feel so good is all the conditions.

It was the activity that I was doing.

And yes,

Maybe the activity drew your attention in.

But what it drew your attention away from was you.

That's what felt so good.

That's what felt so amazing.

So while we love this state,

We love this state of flow.

And there's probably millions of videos,

Or at least millions of views on the videos,

Of how to get into the flow state.

This is a state that most people want to get into.

Right?

It's a state that Meredith,

The separate self,

Would want to get into.

The problem is that Meredith can't be there for it.

Meredith can't be there for it.

Right?

It's the same as what we're doing here.

Same what we're doing on this path,

Awakening,

Enlightenment.

Meredith can't be here for it.

She can't.

That's what it is.

That's what we're awakening to,

The illusion of separateness,

The illusion of that I am the separate self.

And yet we keep thinking,

I can be there for it.

You can't.

You can't be there for this.

This is where we have to be careful in the practices.

This is where we have to be super careful in our practices.

When we're making it,

You know,

I'm meditating to get somewhere.

No.

And,

You know,

We just bring attention into our meditation that's not necessary.

Right?

Because I'm meditating to get somewhere.

I need to meditate for two hours a day,

Three hours a day,

Four hours a day.

And we sit there so rigid,

So difficult.

Make,

Oh,

You know,

I've got to do this.

I'm trying to get somewhere.

Meredith can't get there.

Meredith will never be enlightened.

She will never awaken.

It is the absence of Meredith.

So when we sit to meditate,

Making sure,

Like we were just talking about in the talk,

You know,

There's a shadow side to it,

Right?

Even in meditation,

I can get there.

I can get there if I'm more disciplined,

If I just,

Instead of getting up at five o'clock,

I've got to get up at four o'clock,

Or now I'm going to get up at three o'clock.

Right?

The more that you,

The more pressure you put on it,

The more me you put into it,

The further away you get from what it is that you're trying to do here.

You can't be here for it.

So with our meditation practice,

And I've said this before,

And I,

This is again,

A theme that I'm talking about a lot.

You know,

Just as you sit to meditate,

Who's meditating?

Just ask,

Self-inquiry,

Who's meditating?

Oh,

That's right.

Just meditation happening.

No problem.

No problem.

Meditation likes to happen here too.

It's something I've done for a long,

Long time.

And it's just,

It's not to get somewhere.

It's not to get anything out of it.

But it's something pleasant to do.

It's something nice to do.

And it does keep the conditioning of the separate self at bay.

Great.

But I'm not,

If you're doing it,

You know,

With attachment to it,

Oh,

I've got to make it go away.

It's just going to be right there the whole time.

So whatever it is,

Whatever practice you're doing,

You're going on a retreat.

Fantastic.

Go on a retreat.

Enjoy the retreat.

Don't think,

Don't imagine me on the retreat becoming enlightened.

You won't become enlightened on the retreat.

But retreat are good conditions.

Right?

The Zen saying,

You know,

Enlightenment is an accident,

But practice makes us accident prone.

Yeah,

It does.

It does.

Barring those,

Those few individuals,

Relatively small,

Like Eckhart Tolle,

That have the sudden awakening,

You know,

That's very,

Very rare to happen like that.

For most of us,

It's gradual.

It's gradual,

But you're not controlling it.

You can't make it happen.

You can't get more attached to it and kind of force this to happen.

So again,

There's a certain relaxation with it of,

Yeah,

Do the practices.

Yeah,

Don't do them with attachment.

Don't do them with the idea that there's a meditator here getting something.

But do the practices,

Have wisdom and compassion to know,

Yeah,

I mean,

You're going to do something with your time,

Right?

You're going to do something with your time.

Yeah,

It's good.

Good use of your time.

But don't do it with the idea that you're getting somewhere with it,

Because that just is what turns you into a spiritual seeker.

And then you become one of the millions and millions of spiritual seekers,

Endlessly seeking,

Endlessly seeking,

Never seeing,

Because it was their ego the whole time.

They kept thinking their ego was the one that was going to become enlightened.

I know we got off on this when we were talking about the flow state and how we don't fall apart.

When awareness,

Awareness that is before the thought of Meredith and after the thought of Meredith goes away,

Awareness that steadiness,

The seeing,

Hearing,

Touching,

Smelling,

Tasting,

That is always here,

Right?

Thinking without a thinker,

Doing without a doer,

Planning without a planner,

Right?

All of this is happening.

But we don't fall apart.

We don't fall apart.

The ego wasn't helping us.

It's not helping us on our spiritual path.

It's not helping us with our daily tasks.

It's not helping us in our relationships,

That's for sure.

It creates conflict.

It creates separation.

It creates despair.

It creates feelings of unworthiness,

Of guilt,

Of shame.

We have very much supersized egos in the West.

I mean,

They have just… they're huge.

And we have a lot of wonderful practices to help us,

Applying the right medicine for the right ailment of what's happening in that particular moment.

And then all the cautionary tales that we should take with us on the spiritual path to make sure that this just doesn't become the adventures of our ego.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay,

I'll go back to some other… who got me on that tangent?

I can't remember.

Oh,

Logan,

Yeah,

We started just from a feeling is a feeling.

Oh,

So Alicia,

You're saying you disagree after a near-death experience and being sent back from the cosmos.

You were so angry.

You played in a hospital bed,

Unable to walk and talk.

The moment your… I think your attitude… the moment your attitude,

Your body began to heal,

Although doctors told you and your husband your brain was too damaged to ever walk and talk again,

Gratitude and embodying brings so much more and allows us to shift and allows us to move and shift timelines.

No,

I'm a fan of gratitude.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm a big fan of gratitude.

It's a wonderful,

Wonderful practice.

And having a near-death experience,

I mean,

That is a unique experience,

Not something many people have.

And it sounds like the gratitude was genuine and that's fantastic.

And it was helpful to your healing and that's fantastic.

And I think it can be helpful to our healing.

But if you've had an experience,

And again,

An NDE being a very unusual or not a common experience for us,

But we're just feeling down about our situation for some reason,

We're feeling a little bit off and we have this guilt around it that I should feel grateful because I have so much,

And yet I feel a little down.

And in that way,

Trying to use gratitude as a way to cover up feeling what's here.

So I don't find in that case that it's helpful.

I think that whatever is here,

We should feel if there's some hurt feelings,

Some sadness,

Some grief,

Some disappointment,

Some frustration,

Feel it,

Be with it.

Have kindness.

And generally speaking,

Gratitude will follow.

But if gratitude is ever a should,

Then I think it can become problematic for us.

And I'm so glad to hear how gratitude was so helpful to you and your healing.

I can see it was absolutely instrumental,

But it wasn't a should.

Yeah,

And we do just,

Neil,

To your point again,

Yeah,

We see,

We see people as we are.

Yeah,

We totally do.

If we're feeling really down,

If we're feeling hurt,

Disappointed,

Right?

We,

We,

That's how we see the world through that lens,

Right?

So,

Yeah,

We absolutely do.

And I'm just,

Neil,

I am going to caution about connecting to people.

I'm going to caution about connecting to myself as a being of peace.

Just,

You know,

Just as,

And just see how this,

Try it on,

Just connect,

Just connect.

When we put qualifiers on it,

I think sometimes we tend to miss the mark,

Right?

That it's just being,

Well,

Peace is definitely,

I feel there is a sense of peace in being,

But if we're kind of saying I'm a being of peace,

Like it's kind of qualifying something,

And it might just be,

Again,

Sometimes we type things out and,

You know,

I might just be picking a little bit,

But I do try to point out in these situations where,

Again,

We're,

We're kind of wrapping ourselves up in something and we don't want to be wrapping ourselves up.

What we're really trying to do is the unwrapping,

Is the unwrapping.

And Audrey,

So you're saying you've been struggling with the concept of time and not feeling like there's enough time to do everything you want to do and scheduling so much into your day.

I mean,

I would just say with that,

Audrey,

Like,

Notice how,

You know,

The idea of there being a limited,

Limited amount of time,

How it's making you feel,

Right?

This,

You know,

Maybe there's kind of a fear of missing out of,

Of,

Of people really do struggle with this.

They want to do so much.

And then they don't realize like how difficult they're making life in this moment,

How challenging it is because we can't do everything.

You know,

We can't do everything.

But what I would say is at the,

At the core,

And when I asked this question of,

Of intention,

What's our intention?

What is it that we want more than anything?

And this just to be as a pointer,

Right?

I never will create an image out of it,

But peace,

Connection,

Love,

Not romantic love,

Like universal love,

You know,

As a way to,

To point us to what it is that's most important,

Because in wanting to do all these things,

There's something you think you're going to get out of these things.

There's a,

Oh,

I can get something.

If I can do more,

I'll feel better about myself.

I'll feel more at ease.

I'll feel happier,

Right?

But in fact,

It's doing just the opposite.

In,

In,

In,

In,

In chasing all of these things,

In feeling like there's not enough time,

Feeling the weight of not enough time on your,

On your back,

It,

Um,

It creates a great deal of stress and anxiety.

And so to,

To try on a little bit more of like,

Well,

What is it that I really want to feel?

You know,

Do I want to feel more at ease?

Do I want to feel more,

Um,

More peace?

Okay.

So what I'm doing right now is what I'm doing right now is,

Is taking me further away from peace.

So let me try to not put as much on my schedule.

Let me,

Let me try to be a little bit more,

Um,

Notice how that feels.

Notice the feeling of,

I want to do more,

Right?

Be mindful about it,

Feel it.

Ooh,

Wow.

It's quite a,

It's quite a like vacuum,

Like kind of sucking you in,

Right?

And so you notice and you go,

Wow,

Wow.

That's just the thought of wanting to do more.

Wow.

Look at how that makes me feel tense,

The grasping,

The tightness,

Right?

And so then you can breathe into that,

Feel and go,

Wow,

This is the feeling of chasing.

This is the feeling of chasing happiness,

Right?

So you can breathe into it,

Feel it and go,

It's okay to feel this.

It's okay.

Right?

And now you're starting to connect.

That was just the thought.

I want to do more.

That was just the thought.

I don't have enough time.

And it,

And look at what it did.

Look at how it changed my experience in this moment.

And so you can breathe and feel it.

And as you,

You breathe and you're with what's here,

You're more present.

And now all of a sudden the time factor has gone away again because there's just this moment.

And now all of a sudden what you thought,

This,

This arbitrary imposition that you put on your life of needing more time of needing to get more done is gone.

And you're here in the present moment,

This moment,

No sense of time now in this moment.

Right?

And then it's like,

Oh,

And I feel okay again.

I feel good.

Wow.

Wow.

So I would suggest being very mindful of that.

Like,

You know,

Then that's a big one for you.

The more that we know,

Uh,

Kind of what our,

Our most frequent thoughts are or kind of mind movements that,

That pull us out of the present moment,

The more aware that you are of them,

The more easily you can catch them,

Right?

Because the thing,

If it's happening so much under the radar,

But it seems like you are aware of it.

So now let's just bring that awareness even,

Even higher.

I would put little sticky notes around the house,

In the car,

Chasing time,

Chasing time,

Chasing time,

Right?

Or fear of missing out,

Whichever,

You know,

Both of them to put them more around so that you can,

So that you can really feel,

Uh,

Uh,

Be more mindful of it,

Catch it and feel what's here and notice like,

Wow,

All of this chasing has not brought me closer to what I want,

Which is in some way,

And Audrey,

You can put it in the comments,

Like what,

What is it that you really want to feel that you intrinsically want to know?

Is it peace?

If you were to put it as happiness,

I would say peace,

Contentment,

The highest form of happiness.

Is it connection?

Is it love?

Is it,

You know,

What word speaks to you that what it is you most want,

Whatever it is that you're chasing in the world,

Whatever it is that you're chasing,

It's because you think it's going to give you a feeling,

But it's actually giving you the opposite feeling.

So this is where mindfulness is very helpful because it brings more attention to what it is that we're doing of where the mind's spinning out.

And then to bring our attention into the body to feel what's here and go,

Wow,

I thought I was going to be happy if I could fit five more things in my schedule.

But in fact,

Just the thought of that is making me unhappy right now.

And the only place that I can be happy and again,

Happiness,

I would say,

Peace,

Contentment being really the highest form of happiness.

The only place I can find happiness is right now.

Just this moment.

That's it.

Just this moment.

This is the only place I cannot,

If I cannot find happiness in the future,

Excuse me,

If I cannot find happiness right now,

Then there is no sense trying to find happiness in the future,

Trying to plan,

Trying to get to something else because all that will happen is when I get there,

I will move the goalpost again because I've not learned how to be happy now.

Right?

Happiness,

Peace,

Contentment,

And I'm very much using these words interchangeably,

Is that sense of not needing to add anything onto this moment and not needing to push anything away.

It doesn't mean that we're getting everything that we want.

It doesn't mean that the flight hasn't been delayed,

That we're not stuck in a traffic jam.

It means that we're not pushing back on it.

It means that we're not resisting it.

We're not telling ourselves a story of why this is such a nightmare.

It's not the belief that if I could just get over there,

I'd be happy.

If I could just add more people onto this moment,

More praise onto this moment,

If I could just add more chocolate cake onto this moment,

I'd be happy.

Because in fact,

All that is leading is just to more wanting,

Not to happiness,

Not to the peace,

Not to the contentment.

It is the absence of the grasping of the wanting and the pushing back,

The wanting and the not wanting.

It is the absence of that.

And what is it that's grasping?

The ego,

The sense of separateness,

That sense of lack,

I'm not enough.

I need something more to feel whole,

But the ego is always going to have a sense of lack.

Its existence is based in lack.

It always needs something to add on,

Or it needs to push away something,

And yet it's never satisfied.

In the moment that you get somewhere,

That you were like,

I've got to get there,

I've got to get there.

And then you get there,

Right?

For a moment,

A fleeting moment,

There's a feeling of being okay,

Right?

And we attribute it to,

Well,

I got there.

But really what happened was,

For a few moments,

That chasing went away.

That's why you felt so good,

Right?

And then it just starts right back up again,

And endlessly chasing and chasing.

It's like,

We're just chasing our tail our whole lives.

If you can't find happiness in the present moment,

You will never find it in the future.

Because once you get to that future moment,

It's just the present moment again.

It's only in this moment,

And it is the absence of the grasping,

So the absence of the ego.

The absence,

And in fact,

I'm not even going to say the absence of the ego,

Sorry.

It's the non-identification with the ego.

The ego can be saying something,

But if you're very clear that you're not the ego,

It's not a problem.

Thinking,

No thinker.

Doing,

No doer.

Planning,

No planner.

Right?

So as you're planning,

To even remember,

Ah,

Where's the planner?

Right?

There's planning happening,

But no one that's going to get something when you get there.

That's just a thought.

It's just a belief that creates a sense of lack in this moment.

Yeah.

So I would say,

Yeah,

Reflect on that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if you feel drawn towards an overall state of peace,

I do find that most people in the answer to that question is peace.

It's a good pointer for us,

For what it is that we're looking for.

Yeah.

And you might find also that there's maybe some distracting by doing all this.

What are you distracting from feeling?

Maybe there is some stuff there for you to be with,

To have compassion for yourself,

Self-compassion,

To feel.

A lot of the times too,

A lot of this running and chasing and trying to add on more things can often be a distraction from wanting to feel the unpleasant feelings.

Even just that unpleasant unsteadiness of like,

Oh,

Nothing's going on,

Or I'm missing out.

Learning how to be with those feelings is amazing.

Being able to come in and experience what it is that's arising,

Even when it's not pleasant.

Because when you're with what's here,

And you're not with the story of it,

But you're here just with the physical sensations,

Right?

There's no grasping in that.

There's no pushing back on that.

There's no me in that.

You're just with the sensations.

So you can even have unpleasant sensations.

And there can still be that sense of freedom.

Like,

Oh,

Because that's what's happening.

There's been,

This habit has been with you.

It sounds probably for a while,

Right?

This habit has been here.

And so it's going to keep playing out.

It's going to take a little bit of time.

So just to kind of come back in and feel and go,

Okay,

Right?

You notice the wave,

Here it comes,

Here comes the wave and it's the pulling,

Right?

It's pulling me there.

And it's like,

Okay,

It's unpleasant.

It's unpleasant,

But just feel what's here.

Just be with what's here as best you can,

Right?

Bring self-compassion,

Sweetheart,

This is tough.

Yeah,

But you can feel this.

Just be with what's here,

Right?

You know,

Just like me,

Millions of people around the world are feeling the same thing,

Right?

Whatever you're feeling is a normal human experience.

It's normal,

Right?

So again,

It's another way of not feeling isolated by what you're feeling.

But again,

This is a natural normal emotion,

Particularly in a society,

And again in the West,

Where we chase happiness.

This is all the media,

All of the messaging,

The marketing is all based on this motivation reward pathway in our brain to get us to want,

To crave,

To want more and more and more.

I mean,

Even the food,

And I heard this just recently,

I can't remember who said it,

But like when you're eating sugary or salty snacks,

Notice this,

Notice this,

When you eat it,

It's not even so much the feeling of just this is good,

It's just the feeling of more,

More,

More,

Right?

When we're eating and kind of shoveling in the processed foods,

Right?

It's just the feeling of more,

It's just more.

And it's like,

Oh,

I didn't know that I wanted to feel a 20-minute session of lack,

Stuffing potato chips in my mouth,

Right?

And then feeling terrible afterwards,

Because I've just eaten a bag of potato chips.

But that's what they are,

It's just more,

It's more,

It's more.

So we have a consumer society built on more,

Not on finding satiation,

On just more,

Right?

And more is,

I mean,

We could look at it the other way,

It's just,

You're never going to fill that empty hole.

It's never going to get filled,

Right?

And the more awareness,

More mindfulness that we can bring to that feeling,

The more it's like,

Oh,

I don't want to do that.

That doesn't feel good at all.

That's taking me further away from contentment,

From peace,

Right?

But the programming is there,

Because we've had all these images that tell us,

No,

You're bored,

Go grab a bag of chips.

You're bored,

Go grab your phone,

Right?

You just got disappointed by something,

Oh,

Get a double bag of chips,

Get the double chocolate cake,

Right?

That we're so associating with our emotions,

You know,

Good or bad,

Oh,

You got something good,

You deserve a treat,

Go get the chocolate cake.

You know,

Something bad happened,

You deserve a treat,

Go get the chocolate cake,

Right?

It's so embedded in the programming,

In the brainwashing,

That we do it without even realizing how we're feeling.

I mean,

We are literally like zombies,

Just,

I'll do this,

I'll do that,

Right?

You know,

Kind of just following what the marketing machines are telling us to do.

So mindfulness is really to bring more awareness to this,

To see,

Like,

Oh,

Wow,

I am being run by this program.

I'm being run by this program.

And stepping out of the program,

Right?

Running on a higher program,

Let's say,

Is in seeing what you're not.

You're,

Because again,

In your mind,

I've been disappointed,

I've been hurt,

I deserve something.

Who is it that deserves something?

It's just a thought created me that I believed was going to be happy once it gets,

You know,

Meredith is going to be happy once she gets this.

But Meredith is just an idea,

A thought created me.

There's something here,

There's something here that exists,

Yeah,

An interdependent,

Interconnected,

Impermanent arising,

Changing moment by moment by moment.

There is nothing that I could bring to here that would bring some,

Like,

Kind of permanent state where I could land.

Nothing,

There's nowhere to land,

There's nowhere to land,

There's nowhere to land.

But that's what we're always thinking,

Well,

Go get the chocolate cake and I'll land in some happiness.

And we don't,

Because we eat the chocolate cake and then we just feel more wanting.

Now what else?

Now I need the chips to balance out the sweetness of the chocolate cake.

Oh,

Now I just feel sick.

And now I'm such a loser,

Right?

And all this was done on this idea of a little me that was going to be happy.

All based on this idea of a little me that was going to get happy when she got that,

Instead of just recognizing,

Oh,

There's a feeling of disappointment.

Okay.

Let's feel the disappointment,

Not deny it,

Not jump over it.

Just there's a feeling of disappointment.

Let me breathe and be with that.

Right?

So now you're taking away the sense,

You know,

You're not creating a sense of lack out of it.

You're like,

That's what's happening.

That's what's arising.

That's what's here in this moment.

So I should be with it.

And I should be with it with compassion and kindness and care.

Right?

And just feel it.

Yeah,

It's okay.

It's okay to feel this.

It's okay to feel whatever it is that's here.

Right?

And as you,

As you're with the feelings,

Right?

You notice they're starting to change already.

Might stay,

Might linger depending upon how big the disappointment,

There might still be a lingering feeling of unpleasantness,

But that peak unpleasantness,

Which always goes away once the story goes away.

Once the story goes away,

Because it's the story,

You know,

The thought plus the feeling,

Making the emotion,

Right?

It's just a raw feeling,

But it's the story that we tell on top of it.

It's the feeling that we layer on top of it.

That's what makes it so painful.

And then as soon as the story is gone,

And we're just with the feelings,

It's like,

Oh,

It's a sensation.

It's not a great sensation.

There's maybe a little still contraction,

A little tension,

A little still stress in the system.

Yeah,

It's not great,

But it's totally fine.

I can be with it.

So instead of getting constantly triggered out of that feeling and trying to fill it up with something,

Right?

Just because of the thought,

I feel this way,

I feel bad.

I need to come up with a thought created solution,

Or I need to come up with a food created solution or a distraction solution or,

You know,

Social media or YouTube or whatever it is to lose myself somewhere in this,

Right?

Instead of doing the same patterns,

Which just lead to more feeling lack,

More feeling badly about ourselves,

And then more looking for solutions outside of ourselves.

I mean,

What a great system for big business,

Right?

We're just endless consumers,

Endlessly wanting more.

And so the more that we can come in and feel like we change that.

Oh,

And then the feeling of peace,

Of equanimity,

Of freedom.

I mean,

It really,

It's freedom,

Like,

Oh my God,

I'm no longer a slave to the system.

I'm no longer a cog in this machine.

I've seen it.

I've seen,

You know,

You're like,

I see that this Meredith is never going to find lasting happiness.

Meredith cannot find lasting happiness.

She is just a thought created image,

Created in lack.

She's never going to find lasting happiness.

And in letting go of the pursuit of that,

Right,

Of thinking,

Yeah,

That's never going to happen,

Finding freedom,

Finding contentment that's here,

Because it was the chase that was bringing us all the dissatisfaction,

The lack,

The shame,

The guilt,

The disappointment,

It was the chase.

And so we let all that go.

And it's like,

Oh,

Man,

I mean,

It literally is freeing ourselves from that system.

Yeah.

So I hope that helps,

Audrey.

Yes,

Do some,

Get clear on what it is you most want.

And again,

Making sure that what it is you most want is not dependent upon anything or anyone else.

Really just kind of,

And I just,

I use this as a pointer to try and get us off of the track of chasing,

Right?

You use it as a pointer,

Okay?

So try and connect with that.

And then just be very mindful of these chasing thoughts.

Write some little sticky notes down.

Write some little sticky notes down so that you can be more aware of it.

Yeah.

And Alicia,

You're absolutely right.

When we name the feelings,

It does slow them down,

Because they're just running under the surface.

They're just running rampant.

And in fact,

The naming of them also starts to dampen down the fear center in our brain,

Right?

Because there's a lot of fear in these unpleasant emotions.

And the moment that you name it,

Even just naming fear,

Oh,

Here's fear,

It starts to dampen down the fear center in there.

So yeah,

We start to,

That is the first,

You know,

The first step is like naming what's here.

You know,

In rain,

You know,

Recognize what's here.

Yeah.

Chasing,

It's here.

It's here.

The the moment you can label it,

The chasing,

You're no longer in it.

But if you've not labeled it,

You are in it.

You are in it and you're being propelled forward.

I'll just go back and see if there's anything else that I.

.

.

I think,

And Alicia,

I think answered to Audrey about the society built in time.

We do need time.

And conventionally,

And I'll just address as well,

Conventionally,

Yes,

Conventionally,

There's time.

Conventionally,

Meredith set up a live event to be here at noon,

And she was here,

Right?

So,

You know,

And conventionally,

I can say there's a Meredith here.

You know,

We don't want to kind of pretend like,

Oh,

It doesn't matter,

Right?

Because yeah,

I said I would be here,

I should be here.

But the idea of time,

When it starts to become a constraint,

When it starts to become a ruler of our lives,

And we know,

Like we know when that happens,

Because the stress starts to get there.

Oh my God,

I've got to be there at noon.

I've got to be there at noon.

I've got,

Oh,

What should I,

You know,

What should I do about this?

How will they,

What will they think of me when I'm there at noon,

Right?

All of that adding on to it is just ego influencing it.

So yeah,

You've got to be somewhere at noon,

You've got to be somewhere later at three.

Like,

Yeah,

I mean,

Plan your schedule accordingly,

Look at the clock,

Notice the contraction in there.

Oh,

There it is again,

Breathe,

Be with what's there.

And do make sure,

And I think Alicia,

You would comment on that too,

Like,

Don't squeeze so much into your day.

Like,

It's not natural for us to have a number of appointments that we have in our schedule.

If you think about how humans lived in tribes,

When we were,

When we lived in tribes,

Right?

No one had their day planners out,

And oh,

Let's go check out the new restaurant here,

And then I've got to go meet this group of friends at this time,

And then I've got to go over there,

And then I've got to do this.

You know,

There was just a natural flow with life.

And I think that we do get caught up in this belief in our current society that I have to say yes to every invitation.

You don't.

You don't.

If it's affecting your peace of mind,

I mean,

The first thing that goes,

If you're saying yes to everything,

The first thing that's going to go is your peace of mind,

Because you just can't be everything to everyone.

You can't be all over the place,

Right?

So we have to be willing to say,

To set boundaries,

And to recognize,

And I do have a course,

Audrey,

On Insight Timer on setting boundaries.

And it was something that was really,

It became very evident to me that I needed to start setting more boundaries,

Because I do live a kind of unusual lifestyle.

I live alone.

I live on my own a lot.

I mean,

I like to be alone a lot.

And it's the way that makes,

That works for the nervous system here.

It works for my practice here.

It works for what's most important to me,

Peace of mind,

Right?

Not getting caught up in the ego.

And so I need a lot of space in my day.

I don't like to have a lot of things scheduled.

I mean,

Work,

I'll schedule that.

But even that,

I won't work with more than two people in one day.

I wouldn't do that,

Because by the third person,

I don't think I'd be my best.

And also,

I want a lot of time and space in my day.

And so it is,

When you ask this question,

Audrey,

Like,

What it is that you want,

Like,

This should be the most important thing guiding you,

Right?

And so how are you filling in your day?

If you're running from one thing to the next,

There is no way that you're going to be able to maintain any semblance of peace.

There's just no way.

It's just,

If the body's busy,

The mind is busy.

If the mind is busy,

The body,

You know,

If you're always trying to get somewhere,

That just that level of busyness in the mind and trying to manage it,

And how can I fit this in?

And it's just,

There's no way that you're going to do it.

And so this isn't a race.

You don't win anything by getting the most things checked off on your to-do list or what you got done in your lifetime.

There's not a race to win.

But it's quality over quantity,

Right?

And everyone's life is a little bit different.

Mine's probably a little bit more recluse than what others would like.

But for me,

This is what works.

And so what works for you,

It sounds like you probably do like some social activity,

You do like some engagement.

So be clear on which relationships are most important to you.

That's in the in the workshop as well.

Because you just,

We have an inordinate amount of relationships.

I mean,

I do have a lot of friends,

A lot of friends.

But there's only a few that I would really go do things with.

And I'm very specific on the kinds of things that we'll go and do.

I mean,

I try not to be too rigid on that,

Because I do want to maintain their certain friendships,

And I'd be willing to break a little something for them.

But if we're not,

If we're not putting up the guardrails on how to live a life that is true to ourselves,

No one else is going to do it for us.

And we just can't have,

You know,

20 close relationships.

I think you can have four or five close relationships and everything outside of that.

I mean,

You can still have a big group of friends and,

You know,

Acquaintances outside of that.

But to recognize like,

Which are the relationships I really want to nurture here?

Not just because someone invited you to something that you have to say yes and go.

Because we've got to understand we are giving something up.

Your time is,

Your time is your energy,

Right?

And so what are you giving your energy to?

Things you don't want to be doing,

Things that you think are bringing you happiness,

But in fact are not.

So this is something for us to really take to heart,

Right?

If peace of mind is important to you,

I do think a certain amount of time in quiet,

In solitude,

I think those conditions really add to seeing things more clearly.

I think the more agitated the mind is,

The more the mind's rushing around.

It's,

It would be very difficult to do.

I'm not saying it would be impossible because there are kind of,

There's always some kind of extraordinary situation.

But for most people in general,

It would be very difficult,

Be very difficult.

So if you know what it is that's most important,

If you've identified it,

Then you should look at,

And that's in the course in this terms of engagement document that I had to come up with,

To really be clear about what it was that I wanted my life to look like,

How I wanted to feel in my life,

What my priorities were,

What my values are,

What kind of activities I do want to do,

What kind of activities I don't want to do.

I mean,

I had to have it all written down.

I mean,

I kind of knew what it was,

But I kept getting caught.

Every time I got asked to do something,

I felt badly about saying no.

And I felt this kind of need to explain like,

Oh,

I'm on my spiritual path,

And so I don't go out at night,

And I don't do this,

And I don't do that.

And it sounded kind of weird.

And it sounded like a lot of just kind of defending myself,

Which is very much the ego.

And instead of just kind of recognizing like,

No,

I appreciate the invitation,

But I don't go out at night.

Thank you.

Thank you for including me,

But I don't go out at night.

And being okay with that.

Because again,

We had this kind of,

Oh,

If I'm not being included,

Then I'm being excluded,

Or kind of this feeling of being left out.

And I would say that's not the case.

I think you could be going to every single invitation,

Saying yes to every invitation possible,

And yet still feeling,

Because it would be a lot of stress,

Feeling very disconnected.

And yet you can be on your own,

And not lost in your thoughts,

Not lost in your head,

Not believing you're something up there,

And feeling very at ease,

Feeling very peaceful.

So there is a lot to be said for just knowing what it is that's most important.

And then secondary goals.

Secondary goals,

What you want to do with your life,

You know,

What kind of career you want to have.

You know,

Those are secondary.

For me,

They're secondary behind what it is that's most important.

Inner peace,

Freedom,

Contentment.

To me,

That's the most important thing.

Nothing,

Nothing is more important to me than that.

Okay,

I'll go back here and see if there's.

.

.

Okay,

I think there's just some going back and forth.

Yeah,

Joe,

Just,

Yeah,

I mean,

Goals.

We do have to be careful in our goals,

And what it is the things that we want to do,

And make sure that we're doing,

Whatever we're doing,

That we're doing it for the right reason,

That there is a passion in what you're doing.

Or,

But maybe it is just,

You have to work,

And you have a particular job.

Like,

Okay,

Yeah,

We've got to make a living.

Like,

That's okay.

You know,

We can't always do all of our own passions,

But to make sure that sometimes we get lost on that daydream,

But if only I could do this,

If only I could do that,

Right?

And I think that the,

In the goal,

We kind of imagine,

Again,

The me that's happy at the end of it,

Right?

I mean,

We've seen this with all the influencers that,

And I guess teachers have said that,

Like,

The number one thing that most kids want to be in school now is an influencer,

Which would have been very different from when I was in school,

Or anyone.

You know,

I grew up in the 70s,

And of course,

There was no internet then.

But,

You know,

You can see that all these people that want to be an influencer,

Because they see these images,

These lifestyles of what people are living,

And they're not even remotely based in reality,

Right?

If you're living,

I mean,

Because there's a lot of them quitting these days.

I don't do,

I mean,

I don't go on Instagram,

Or TikTok,

Or any of those.

But I,

You know,

I used to do Facebook a little more regularly.

And I,

Of course,

Know what all these things are.

And you do see that there's,

In the news,

They're talking about they're quitting doing it,

Because just trying to keep that up,

The constant content,

Trying to keep up this pretense of this always-on lifestyle,

That they start to see everything that they're doing no longer as,

Would I like to do that or not?

But is that a postable moment?

Right?

So they're kind of seeing everything through that lens now.

And a lot of them are quitting now.

And yet,

This is what so many kids today see this,

They've been so lost in the images and think that these people have freedom.

They don't have freedom.

If you're having to post about your life every day,

There's no freedom in that.

What a nightmare.

And then having to go back and how many likes and did it go viral?

And what are the comments?

And,

You know,

Oh,

You know,

All I mean,

Just what a nightmare,

What a nightmare.

And yet,

This is what most kids today want to pursue.

Right?

Because the programming is getting even more intense or is just taking over every part of their lives.

I mean,

Again,

I think about when I was a kid,

Like we'd play outside,

You know,

Most of the day,

Come in when the streetlights were on.

And I mean,

Yeah,

We got into trouble and we did things,

Go get candy,

You know,

Come try and get some beer or something.

But,

You know,

So yes,

There was definitely some wanting there,

Some chasing there.

But to the degree that it is today,

It just seems unbelievable.

Like,

They're just,

You know,

They can't live without their phones,

They'll throw a tantrum if they don't have their phone.

This image of themselves that they see,

You know,

Based on online likes and comments,

Changing their behavior to try and get more videos and more likes and comments,

Like,

It's just even more insidious.

It's so much more insidious and ingrained today.

And I mean,

I'm so glad that I didn't grow up with phones.

I would hate to have grown up like this,

To have my brain wired as strongly as it is wired for it now,

For the kids today.

So,

And yet we all still,

Even though a lot of us were adults by the time the internet came on,

You know,

And then Amazon shopping and,

You know,

Everything at our fingertips,

Just the instant gratification,

At least we had enough,

You know,

Our brains were formed enough to know like,

Oh my god,

This is not healthy.

So yeah,

I just think the programming is getting even worse,

Even more insidious.

And yeah,

And we,

You know,

It's important that if we're recognizing this,

To make sure that we do honor the conditions that keep us a bit away from that,

Again,

Not in a strict,

In a rigid way,

But just in a recognizing like,

Yeah,

You know,

Being on your phone too much is not healthy.

It's not healthy.

You know,

Eating too much junk food is not healthy.

Purchasing too many items is not healthy.

Posting your life every day is not healthy.

Posting at all,

You're about your life.

I find that just really,

It's an interesting thing to want to take a photo of yourself and to put it online like that.

And I say this with,

Of course,

I put these,

You know,

On Insight Timer,

And I do put this on YouTube.

But it's not my life.

It's not my life.

It's kind of sharing on these lives in our sangha.

It's not,

You know,

Oh,

Here I just finished meditating.

You know,

Here I just finished breakfast.

Oh,

I just finished taking the dogs for a walk.

Oh,

I just finished doing,

Or I am taking the dogs for a walk.

Yeah,

You know,

It's,

It's like this.

It's like,

We miss all these moments of awe because of it.

Because if you see,

And of course,

Sarah,

You just popped into my head.

Because I saw your comment about Baja,

Where I live down here in Baja in Mexico.

And it is beautiful,

Right?

And we have these some beautiful sunrises,

Beautiful sunrises and beautiful sunsets.

And,

And you can just see,

You know,

Someone will see like a beautiful sunrise.

And there's that moment of awe,

Like when you're kind of just struck by a beautiful sunrise.

And,

And then,

You know,

A few minutes later,

A few moments later,

For some people's got to take a picture of this,

Got to put it on Facebook,

Right?

Everyone's going to see what a beautiful Oh,

That let me take another picture.

I didn't get the right picture.

Like you can see people doing this,

Oh,

I got to take a picture now.

And so one minute,

There was this moment of awe of the suns of the sunrise or the sunset or just seeing something like,

Oh,

And then immediately this wanting to come in and,

Oh,

I've got to take a photo.

And I've got to now I've got to make some kind of identity out of it.

Right?

Because it is it's kind of like me posting the look at me and my fabulous life with the beautiful sunrises,

Right?

There is this kind of it's these subtle identities that were kind of that are getting reinforced.

Every time people are posting these kind of images about their lives,

Because of course,

They're also all trying to paint an image,

Right?

This,

This,

This Oh,

Look at this amazing life I have,

The more amazing someone has to tell you their life is,

I can guarantee you it is not amazing.

Right?

If you're having an amazing life,

You don't want to film it.

You don't need to snapshot it all day long.

You don't need to anyone else.

It's an amazing life.

The more someone has to tell you this,

The less amazing I would,

I would suggest their life really is.

So,

So I mean,

The programming is really strong,

It's getting stronger and stronger,

The internet,

AI,

Where people are even not being able to distinguish between it's a,

It's a,

It's a large language model,

And people are getting married to these things.

Like,

Just like,

I can't imagine this is good for society.

This isn't good for us in the long haul.

So yeah,

I find the more that we can be mindful of the conditions of where we're getting lost,

Like lost in the matrix.

And then,

Okay,

And then what what are the conditions that are key that allow,

Allow more presence to be here,

You know,

You'd be more in awareness and presence,

Like,

What are those conditions?

Right?

And,

And really,

I would say,

I mean,

A lot of it's the absence,

The absence of the technology,

The absence of too much stimulation,

Too much engagement,

It would be the absence of a lot of those things.

Because in the beginning on this path,

We do need a little bit of we do,

I do find those conditions can be quite helpful.

Now after once there's once you're really seeing reality doesn't really matter so much anymore.

I mean,

I,

I,

I don't think that there's a great need to go on the internet at these stages,

But at this,

But,

But it definitely is helpful in the beginning.

Because,

I mean,

The brain,

All of these companies are just working off of brain networks,

Survival systems,

Right,

The the dopamine motivation reward system,

It's a it's a survival system,

Right?

It's,

It's,

It's not a satiation system,

It's survival,

It's go and find,

Go and find more watering holes,

Go and find new food sources,

Go and find more caves,

Go and find mates,

You know,

Procreate.

And it's not meant to bring you to satiation,

It's meant to keep doing it.

Right?

It gives you the motivation,

The energy,

The drive,

The focus to go and get,

You know,

Find the watering holes.

So you look all day and you find it,

Yay,

And you know,

Kind of the dopamine gives you all that.

But then the dopamine tapers off,

Because it's like,

All right,

You know,

This watering hole,

You're not going to get the same dopamine hit.

Right now go find other ones,

Right?

What if something happens to this one?

And so they're all playing off of this system,

Like all of the marketing,

All of the wanting,

All of the chasing is all just tapping into the system.

And we just sit there like the rat in the cage,

Just pressing and pressing and pressing the lever to get the little stimulation there.

But it's not happiness.

It's just craving,

It's more wanting.

And this is what the Buddha described 2600 years ago when he said,

A craving is like trying to quench your thirst with saltwater.

I mean,

He was describing the motivation reward system.

It's not about satiation.

And they have capitalized on this,

Right?

And they've capitalized also on stress,

On stress,

You know,

Kind of bringing us in that sense of fear,

And I don't feel safe anymore,

And something's wrong,

You know,

Right?

And so,

As we're scrolling through,

Right,

If you're scrolling through whatever,

You know,

Scrolling thing,

You know,

Social media,

News,

Outrage news,

Right,

All the rage bait news that they're trying to just get your attention,

They're trying to make you mindless.

That is the intention of all of these.

They are trying to make you mindless.

And we just get lost in it,

Lost in it,

Lost in it.

And then all of a sudden,

An ad comes up at the right moment,

You're just outraged enough,

And you're wanting enough,

Right?

So add stress with the motivation reward system.

That's,

Yep,

That's exactly what I need to feel better.

I'll buy that,

Right?

And then it just,

It kind of just keeps us on this never ending cycle.

So they've,

They're all just hacking into survival systems in our brain.

And so don't,

You know,

When we kind of think,

Oh,

I can be smarter.

I can be smarter,

I can be posting every day on social media,

And it's not going to get to me.

No way.

No way are you not going to want the likes or the comments?

It's,

It's tapping into such a,

Such a primal part of our brain,

That there's no way you can beat the algorithms.

There's no way you can,

You can,

You can avoid the craving by participating in that.

There's just no way.

It's just not going to happen.

And Michelle,

To your point,

Like I was saying,

People are more disconnected than ever.

Because all of this gives the illusion,

Again,

Oh,

Look how many friends you have,

Look how many followers you have,

Right?

You know,

You're texting with people,

It's like superficial relationships.

And,

You know,

At best on the texting.

But,

You know,

The likes and the comments beyond superficial.

And it leaves us just feeling more disconnected.

Oh,

Char,

That's great.

Yeah,

It's the digital ego,

The digital ego.

Yes.

Yeah.

You don't want a digital ego.

It's,

It's,

It's,

Yeah.

In fact,

We could say yes,

The,

You know,

This is the,

You know,

Like the Ginsu knives,

And they're like,

You know,

They're selling like,

Oh,

You get the knives,

But wait,

There's more.

It's like,

Oh,

You want the ego with all the lack and the craving and the grasping and the shame and the guilt and all that?

But wait,

There's more,

We've got the digital ego.

Yeah,

It's the supersized ego,

Never enough.

You know,

You could get 1000 likes,

And it won't be enough.

You could get the viral post today,

But then if you don't get the viral post tomorrow,

It's never going to be enough.

Yeah,

The one you have is already enough.

It just like supersizes it,

It keeps supersizing it.

Right.

And this is the problem in our society is that the ego keeps getting supersized,

It keeps getting,

It's like the McDonald's sizes,

You know,

The,

The,

The small is really large,

The medium is really extra large,

The large is a bucket,

Right?

And that's what's been happening with the ego.

Right?

It just,

It's become supersized,

It's become so big,

Everything in our culture,

In our society,

In our in our government,

In our business,

It's just all based around this sense of lack and outrage and anger.

And it's,

It's,

I mean,

Making people,

You know,

Really unhappy,

Making people really unhappy.

So yeah,

We should be aware of the conditions that,

That the ego thrives in.

No question,

Social media,

It thrives in.

And even news,

Be careful on the news.

Right?

Be careful why you're clicking on a headline,

Just,

You know,

Pause,

What am I hoping to get from this?

Am I really being informed?

Or how much of the news is just this kind of gotcha?

So much of it is just,

Watch my language on inside.

So much of it is just ridiculous.

It's not news.

It's just,

It's just getting us more angered,

More outraged.

It's not helping.

So understanding all those conditions.

And again,

You know,

I will say this again,

Because I'm just going to keep beating this to death,

You know,

Also just recognizing when we're using our spiritual practice,

When the ego is wrapping itself up in spirituality as well,

It's still the ego.

It's still the ego.

Don't make images out of yourself as a spiritual person.

Don't make,

You know,

Don't get attached to your practices.

They're all your practices are to help us see that we're not the ego,

To see this whole process,

How the thoughts arise,

The sense of a me arises,

Right?

Right,

This kind of belief that I was there before the thought,

But in fact,

I wasn't,

I'm just assuming that,

Right?

So it's just to just see this,

It's just arising in this thought.

And just repeating the same thoughts over and over and over,

Endlessly repeating the same thoughts.

I mean,

90%,

80,

90% of the thoughts you had today,

You had yesterday,

You had the day before that,

The day before that,

They're not new,

They're not original,

They're not interesting.

They're just the same old things.

What do they think of me?

What do I think of me?

I'm such a loser.

I can't believe I did that.

I'm so great.

I can't,

I did do that.

Oh,

No,

Now I'm back to a loser.

I can't believe I did that,

Right?

Just this yo-yo that we're on.

Right?

So,

You know,

The practices that we're using in spirituality,

Mindfulness,

Meditation,

Compassion practices,

Heart opening practices,

Gratitude,

Forgiveness,

Loving kindness,

Equanimity,

Sympathetic joy,

All of these are not to become something from them.

It's not to become a great meditator.

It's not to be the most mindful person in the world.

These are tools to help us see that we are not this thought created me.

So that when it arises,

When it does arise,

And it's telling me I'm a loser,

That I can see it like,

Oh,

That's just a thought,

Just a thought that's arising.

And you can use mindfulness and breathe into it,

Feel it.

Yep,

There it is.

You can use self-inquiry.

Who's the loser?

Right?

Really shining the spotlight on it.

Who's the loser?

Oh,

I can't find it.

Right?

As a way to keep seeing I'm not this.

So that then as you're going about your day,

As you're going about your day,

You're here.

You're not burdened by time.

You know when you've got to be somewhere.

Yeah.

But I'm not going to be any happier when I get there.

Because if I can't find happiness now,

I'm not going to find it over there.

But yeah,

Okay.

There's things that are going to be done.

Yeah.

You weren't doing any of this anyway.

It was just all happening.

Right?

And that's the recognition.

It's all happening.

You can take your hands off the wheel.

It's all happening.

Right?

It's all happening.

And then there's just this freedom of flow.

Right?

And you realize,

Yeah,

All thinking can still happen.

But no thinker.

Planning can still happen.

No planner.

Doing can still happen.

No doer.

Right?

Because you're seeing I'm not that.

It's been giving me the worst advice my entire life.

And it's not real.

So even if the ego still arises,

There's just no longer an identification with it.

And then those times when you do get a little lost in it,

And yeah,

We all still get a little lost in it.

Right?

But it's not for very long.

It's oh,

Phew,

Just got a little lost.

No problem.

No,

I forgot for a moment.

I forgot.

I was that for a moment again.

Oh,

I forgot.

Okay.

No beating ourselves up about it.

No.

Oh,

But I was,

Oh,

My God,

It was lasting for so long.

And now it's gone.

Right?

No grasping at it.

Because I'm not controlling any of this.

I'm not controlling the awakening process.

I'm not controlling what words are coming out of this mouth.

Right?

I'm not controlling any of this.

It's all just causes and conditions arising and happening.

And,

And what I take to be Meredith is really just an impermanent,

Ever changing,

Ever,

Ever changing,

Interconnected,

Interdependent being nothing solid here,

Nothing,

Nothing to get nothing to get stuck in.

Because it's just always changing.

It's just always changing.

And this is where the freedom comes from the spaciousness comes from because the ego thinks it's a solid independent,

Independent,

Not interdependent,

Not interconnected,

Independent,

Acting on its own,

Inherently existing,

Instead of independent,

Excuse me,

Interdependently existing in thought,

Just know it,

It exists on its own.

Right?

That's what the ego thinks.

And that's who we think we are.

But then it's the reality of saying,

No,

I'm just,

You know,

Thoughts,

Feelings,

Emotions,

Changing,

Hormones,

Changing,

Neurochemistry,

Changing,

Energy,

Changing,

Right?

Being affected by the weather,

Being affected by,

By all of you being affected by all the previous moments being affected by what the dogs are doing,

You know,

Being affected by whether I'm hungry or not,

Being affected by what I ate last night,

Being affected,

You know,

By a trillion different causes and conditions.

And it's arising this moment,

That all there is,

Is this moment,

Each moment arising all these different like conditions,

These different,

You know,

Pieces of sand,

You know,

Little grains of sand coming together,

And changing and changing and changing.

Like there's nothing to hang on to here.

There's nothing to hang,

There's nothing outside of me that I could,

Could hang on to.

But there's nothing here that's solid that could hang on to it either.

And that's the seeing of like,

Oh,

Yeah.

You know,

Conditions,

Pleasant conditions,

Unpleasant conditions,

Nothing going on conditions,

Experience of everyone,

Nothing to hang on to,

Nothing to push back on.

Right?

Right.

It's,

It,

We use the example of the river flowing.

Yes,

The river flowing.

You're not,

You're not anything solid.

You're,

You're constantly changing.

The river changes based on the conditions.

If there's a rock in the center,

If there's someone walking across the river,

If a tree fell,

If it got,

If there was a big snowfall,

Like constantly changing.

It's like,

Oh,

It's speeding up a little here.

Oh,

Okay.

Let's go with it.

Right?

Oh,

It's slowing down a little bit.

Oh,

This is nice.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now what's happening next?

Because you don't know what's going to happen next.

We're always trying to imagine,

I know what's going to happen.

We're always imputing that we know and putting meaning in everything.

It's like,

You don't know.

You don't know.

Be,

Wake up and just wake up and enjoy the ride.

Wake up and enjoy the ride.

So all the practices are helping us to see that.

They're helping us to see that.

They,

They are not the end point.

At some point you put the practices down.

They're not even necessary anymore.

Maybe you do some just because you like them and because,

You know,

Hey,

You got to do something with your time.

But they're,

They're not,

We're not trying to become great meditators.

Meditation is a tool.

It's helping us see this whole game that we've got caught up in,

At believing it's reality and missing the reality that is always here.

It's helping us to see.

To see what we are not.

I'm not the ego.

And then not to make this,

Not to make this out of something too.

Just seeing,

Hearing,

Tasting,

Smelling,

Touching,

Feeling,

Like happening,

Events happening.

No problem.

Enjoy,

Feel connection,

Right?

Because there is such a greater sense of connection with everything because you realize you're a part of this.

You're not separate from everything.

You're just,

You're a part of this.

We're all each a node in this and being all created by each other,

Right?

But we'll never,

We're never going to find that with the ego.

We're never going to find it with the ego.

That's the problem.

And the ego can't be there for awakening.

It can't be there for it.

That's very beautifully put,

Char.

Spirituality is the eyeglass I use to the present moment.

Sometimes I misplace my eyeglass and sometimes I still long for the rose-colored glasses.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And be okay,

You know,

Again,

Just wherever you are,

It's okay.

You're not controlling this.

You're not controlling the awakening process.

You're not controlling.

There's just two trillions of conditions.

There's not,

That are just all of this.

And it's just,

You know,

You're moved in one direction versus another.

Great.

Be the wave that's riding there.

Don't fight the wave that you are in that moment.

You're just making the experience unpleasant.

It's just,

We fight the ride the whole time.

We fight it because we aren't seeing things clearly because we're believing the little me that is lacking.

There is no little me that's lacking.

It's just an illusion.

It's been a very convincing illusion and everyone's in on the illusion.

So it's like,

Oh,

You believe it too?

Yeah,

Me too.

Right.

And then everything in our society that is and our culture that feeds into it as well.

So as best we can,

You know,

The conditions are that you're here,

Right?

You,

The interest that you have in this was not your interest.

It was the conditions.

They arose and there was an interest.

Great.

And then maybe the words here that create a bit of an influence to say,

You know what,

Maybe look at how you're living your day.

You know,

How you're scheduling things,

How you're relating to time,

How you're relating to your tasks,

You know,

And look at how those conditions could influence the conditions of being more present.

Okay.

I think we got to everyone's questions here.

Okay.

I'm going to go ahead and then start to say goodbye here because we have been going for two hours.

And as we know,

We do know the conditions of hunger start arising here around 2 p.

M.

So,

And time to bring the puppies in.

So,

Oh,

Thank you,

Asa.

Thank you so much.

Yeah.

And Char,

Thank you.

So good to see you.

And Nolea.

I don't know if I'm saying that right or not.

Good to see you.

And Michelle.

I think we've got three Michelles on here now.

A popular name here.

And Alicia,

I think you're gone now.

Yeah.

Oh,

And Libby,

Thank you.

Oh,

Louisa,

Thank you for the donation.

Thank you so much for that.

I appreciate it.

Oh,

Ward,

Good to see you.

Good.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Okay,

Great.

And I think,

And Sarah and Audrey.

And I know you've got some reflecting to do now,

Audrey.

And let's see who else.

Joss,

That's who I was going to say goodbye to.

Joss and Benny.

And let's see.

And Neil,

Good to see you.

Logan,

Good to see you.

I feel like this was the first time for you,

Logan.

I'm not sure if we've seen you before.

And hi,

Karen.

Good to see you as well.

And Randolph,

Again,

Thank you for the donation.

I appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

Oh,

And Mary,

Thank you so much.

Thank you for the donation.

Oh,

And Aspen,

Your first time.

Oh,

I'm so glad you were here.

So glad you were here.

And Catherine,

Welcome.

Welcome.

You're always welcome here.

We meet every Sunday.

So you're always welcome to come and join us.

Oh,

And I'm so glad you enjoyed these sessions,

Mary.

You were a little spark.

I'm sure you picked up on it for the message you sent me yesterday that it kind of you influenced the talk for today.

So in a good way,

Because I know you were having such good news,

And it made me kind of think of you in that sense.

And I'm like,

Oh,

Let's just make sure she stays with this wonderful feeling in a way that's not getting attached,

Right?

Oh,

Janine,

Good to see you.

Good to see you.

Oh,

I'm so glad the talk,

You didn't know you needed Char.

I'm so glad.

I'm so glad.

So thank you all so,

So much.

Thank you guys for being here.

Thank you for the great comments.

Oh,

David,

Thank you.

Thank you.

Stumbled on me for a lark.

Glad it was a nutritious meal to start the day.

So welcome,

David.

Yeah.

And you must be in Australia if you're starting the day.

So so yeah,

Well,

We meet every Sunday.

And again,

And I post the recordings of all of our classes up on Insight Timer.

So they'll always be up there for you as well.

Okay,

So thank you all very much.

Thank you.

Lots of gratitude to all of you.

Thank you so much.

Oh,

And Robbie,

Good to see you as well.

Good to see you.

So thank you guys so,

So much.

So have a wonderful rest of your Sunday and Monday for those of you in Australia.

Reviews

Thank you Meredith. I learn so much from your wisdom each time I listen to you either live or recorded. 🙏