You're listening to Women's Dream Enlightenment.
Dream decoding,
Deep discussions,
And spiritual stories of self-discovery to inspire your personal enlightened journey.
I'm your host,
Megan Mary,
Founder of Women's Dream Analysis.
Let's bring in the light.
Welcome,
Everybody.
Today I have Holly Copeland.
Holly's passion lies in helping people discover what it means to step into the flow with life and live in unshakable joy and well-being while healing their mental,
Emotional,
And physical bodies.
With a deep connection to nature from her 20-plus year career as a conservation scientist,
She founded HeartMindAlchemy to unite ancient wisdom and modern science and empower clients on their path to human flourishing and upgrading from ordinary mind to awake awareness.
Her background weaves certified training in the healing modalities of breath of love and biofield tuning with human potential coaching,
Reiki,
Neuromeditation,
And subtle energy meditation.
Thank you for being here,
Holly.
Well,
Thank you so much for having me on,
Megan.
I'm just delighted to be here and to talk to your listeners.
Great.
Yes,
I think there's so many overlaps between the work that you do,
Helping people access their inner self,
And the meditation that's brought me to where I am today.
Great.
Me too.
My first question,
Which I ask everyone,
Is what does enlightenment mean to you?
That's such a beautiful question,
And I actually remember when you say that in parts of the journey for me when I was really going through the shifts that I've gone through of wrestling with exactly that question.
What does that really mean to be enlightened?
I don't believe enlightenment is a special state that we achieve in some future place when we've kind of got everything figured out.
My understanding and my lived experience from where I have this journey,
This crazy journey of life has taken me,
Is that what is called enlightenment is our natural state.
It's the natural state of open,
Loving presence that each of us actually has accessible to us all the time.
It's here all the time.
What makes us feel like we're quote-unquote not enlightened is being caught in the thinking and conceptual mind,
Being caught in the play,
The drama,
The illusion,
As it were,
Of life,
Being caught in the dream and not recognizing we're the dreamer,
To use the analogies of dream and dreamer,
Which are used a lot in the sacred teachings.
I think it works really well because I think we understand what that means from a dream and dreamer perspective because we go to sleep every single night and have that experience.
Again,
Enlightenment's not a special state.
Enlightenment is the recognition of the dreamer,
Of our open,
Loving self that isn't clouded by the apparent chaos of reality.
Yes,
The chaos of reality.
I like that statement.
So as your journey evolves,
Tell listeners a little bit about how you came to the work that you're doing because I know you have such an interesting background and also the work you're doing is so unique.
Yeah,
Well,
Thank you.
I came to this work now as a coach and sound healer and meditation teacher.
Actually,
As a scientist,
As you read in my bio,
I was working for the Nature Conservancy and then the University of Wyoming as a scientist.
I had a deep and still do love of the earth and deep desire to help stop the bleeding,
As it were,
Of all of what humans are doing to the planet.
And that passion,
Which I had since a little child,
Grew into what I wanted to be my profession.
And to be honest,
I thought that's what I would always do.
I went to school for this and I trained for this and I by all rights had the dream job that every scientist conservationist would love to have,
Working with deer and sage grouse and eagles and different animals to conserve the planet.
But for me,
What happened was kind of a confluence of a number of things,
Including I had an illness.
I got mold poisoning.
So I actually was like physically not well.
The universe kind of decided to throw that curveball at me.
But I also was having this increasing angst about it would never be enough.
Like what I was doing in the external world felt exhausting.
It felt it was like a burnout.
Like it would never,
I could never catch up and have it be enough.
And so it felt like I was waking up in the morning in a kind of groundhog day of,
You know,
Here I am again trying to do the same thing again.
I don't know if that resonates with you or your listeners,
But it's that like you just wake up and you're like,
Oh my God,
We're doing this again.
What else is humanity going to do today?
And that led me to a place of feeling like and a recognition that I wasn't going to solve this problem outside myself.
And part of that was because I recognized that I'd done all the things society asked me to do.
I found the good job.
I was living in a beautiful small town.
I had a loving husband.
I had some beautiful children.
So I checked all the societal boxes and yet there was this angst and upset that it wasn't going to go away just by fixing something on the outside.
And that forced me to face the inner sadness and the inner pain and the inner guilt,
Shame and blame that I was holding.
And through these different teachings that I was exposed to and these beautiful sacred wisdom teachings,
I started to really dig in in that inner path.
And in doing so,
I actually met who's my primary meditation teacher now.
And I'll throw this in,
The focus you have on dreams.
So the way I actually found him was through a dream.
I had a spontaneous lucid,
Hyper lucid dream before I met him.
And for context,
My understanding of hyper lucid dream is it's a dream.
So it was a lucid dream.
I was standing on a cliff and I was about to jump off and fly.
And at the moment where I recognized that I was about to jump off,
I was like,
Wait,
I can't fly.
I must be dreaming.
And in that instant,
The best way that I can put it in words was that the whole world opened up into this more lifelike than living reality filled with colors and rainbows and light.
And it was so extraordinary what I saw that when I woke up,
I was like,
Oh my God,
What was that?
Where was that place that I was?
And it stuck with me.
And months later,
I had an opportunity.
There was a retreat center nearby and I had signed up for something which I had to cancel.
And so I had this credit there with them.
And I was looking at their offering and they had a lucid dreaming weekend with Andrew Holchek,
For those who know him.
And I didn't know anything about him or his teachings,
But because I'd had this lucid dream,
I was like,
This is the most interesting offering that they have.
And I've got this credit and I might as well go do something cool.
So I went to this class.
So I go to this class and I learned that what I'd had was a hyper lucid dream,
And I learned a lot about lucid dreaming through him.
But more than that,
When I came back from that class,
I was on this online community speaking about some meditation that I was doing with a headset.
And this teacher of mine,
I commented that I'd been to a lucid dreaming class and apparently that wasn't something that was often talked about.
And he was an avid lucid dreamer and he responded immediately and said,
I'd love to chat with you about it.
And that led to my deep lifelong now relationship.
Well,
It's been five years and he feels like my life teacher,
As it were.
So it's interesting,
Isn't it?
How that was a completely spontaneous,
Wild lucid dream.
I've practiced lucid dreaming since then and tried to enter the world of lucid dreaming more,
But nothing.
That just was a gift from the universe.
Yes,
That's beautiful.
I've had those dreams where you're just overwhelmed with joy at the beauty.
You just cannot contain the beauty that you're experiencing.
And so I have that.
I can definitely resonate with that.
And also I was diagnosed with low deltas,
So I know exactly how that is.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
We have some synchronicity.
The universe brought us together.
Yeah,
Absolutely.
Well,
What I love about what you do is how you've integrated the ancient wisdom with the modern science.
So you're doing things with biofeedback and with technology that are really interesting.
So tell me a little bit about how that works.
Sure.
Well,
So let me just back up and say that when I came to meditation,
I tried meditation a number of times.
I'd been on this quote unquote spiritual path,
But I'd never really been able to do deep or long meditations.
I'd felt it felt hard.
I felt like I didn't know what I was doing and I didn't know if I was doing it right.
And I started learning about brainwaves and brainwave science probably because I'm a sciency geek.
And I felt like if I'm trying to hack my brain into a quiet state,
Well,
I better know about brainwaves.
And I'd read this incredible book called The Open Focus Brain by Les Fermi.
And in this beautiful book,
He talks about how to access an alpha state that he discovered.
If you focus on the space between in your body,
You can generate a spontaneous alpha state.
So for example,
If you focus,
If everybody listening right now,
Just focus on the space between your ears,
You just might notice that when you do that,
There's kind of an immediate kind of switch or calm shift.
If you just focus on the space between your ears,
You can also just drop down,
Focus on the space between your shoulders.
I don't know you,
Megan,
But I can feel it.
I can feel it does not take very long before something shifts or opens.
Les had been studying brainwaves and trying to get into the alpha state.
And let me just describe back up for just one more second and say,
For those who don't know the different brainwaves,
Which because of dreams,
Maybe your group is well familiar,
But just kind of quickly review,
Never hurts,
Right?
Beta brainwaves are those faster brainwaves that is like the thinking mind.
Gamma is actually even a little faster than that.
And gamma brainwaves,
They're sort of more interesting and have been studying in the brainwaves of both accomplished meditators,
But also lucid dreamers,
Activate a 40 hertz brainwave.
Beta brainwaves are slower than gamma,
But still sort of in that 13 to 20,
25 range.
And then alpha,
Which are just under beta,
Are in that 8 to 12 slash 13 hertz.
And the alpha brainwaves are associated with an alert,
Open state of being.
So what I read and understood from Les and others was that if we're caught in a beta brainwave thinking state all the time,
It's exhausting.
It's what makes us feel like we're always,
We can't turn off our thinking.
But if we can learn to downshift into the open alert state,
It's much more restful.
And then if we can drop below that open alert alpha state into beta,
That's where we access,
Of course,
Our REM sleep and subconscious thinking and hypnosis and then deep sleep in delta,
Which is even below that,
Right in the realm of zero to two hertz.
So I'm reading all about these different brainwaves and I thought,
Oh,
That's really cool.
Okay,
I'm starting to put together this picture of what meditation is and how meditation is associated with downshifting into alpha and theta states.
And that sounds like a good thing.
I'd like to learn how to do that,
Please.
And then I learned about devices and neurofeedback,
Which helps train people into these alpha and theta desirable brainwave states.
And then I learned that there were devices you could buy,
Consumer devices that you could buy to help you shift into these states.
And the one that I got is called the Muse headband.
And it's a little lightweight headband that you put on and it reads the brainwaves in your head.
And then it interprets them and lets you know if you're in an active beta state with a lot of,
In this program,
You hear rain.
So you hear like a heavy rain if there's a lot of thinking,
If you're in a lot of beta.
And then as you focus the mind and calm down,
Then it shifts into quieter and quieter rain.
And then if you get even more quiet,
Then they go away altogether and you just hear little chirpy birds.
So what that did for me was teach me,
Oh,
I can actually learn like training wheels for riding a bike.
I can learn to hear and feel,
I can hear and then feel what a quiet mind feels like.
And that was like game changing for me.
I thought,
How amazing is that?
That we actually have technology that can teach us how,
What a quiet mind feels like.
Because to be honest,
Prior to this,
I didn't even,
I had no reference point for what a quiet mind even was.
And that,
It was just,
It was so awesome and revolutionary when I discovered what that was.
That's amazing.
And I,
Of course,
Fascinated by the brainwave states.
And like you said,
Because that's meditation and dreams,
So much are those spaces where we are enveloped in that different state.
And also really part of mastering dream recall is mastering that in-between state from you're waking up because that's the moment where you can remember your dreams.
And it's not exactly easy every time.
Sometimes you really have to focus and think,
I call it think backwards,
But you're really just going back into beta.
You're making,
You're like straddling that point so that you can go back in and get that and bring it out.
Yeah,
Absolutely.
So it's really helpful,
Isn't it?
To like a sense for what these different states feel like so that we can develop a reference point for what that is.
And we can go back to something that we have a reference to.
Yes.
So how do these devices support the healing process?
Yeah,
That's an interesting question.
So I think that when we don't know how to access this essential self or these alpha mind and beta mind,
If we don't,
If we're sort of always caught in thinking mind,
Then we're really always caught in the dream.
We don't have a chance to come back to actually feel,
Sense what's here now.
Right.
And so fundamentally what meditation is,
Is about recognition of who and what's here now.
And we can become very present with what's here now.
We can then start to actually tune into the,
To our own,
Our body is hardwired for healing and wholeness.
And we can tap into that hardwiring and start to turn on and deeply listen and then allow healing to unfold when we tap into that process.
If we're caught in thinking mind,
If we're not in any kind of a meditative state and we're always either worrying or referencing,
Worrying about the future or referencing the past,
Then we're really not attending to what's actually here.
And I think that's where the real healing begins is attending to what's here.
Yes.
What you just said,
I often say,
And I don't know who came up with it,
But if you're dwelling in the past,
You're depressed.
And if you're dwelling in the future,
You're stressed.
And so it's just being here now,
Being tapping into that pure self.
And that's where the healing takes place because that's where the connection is.
And that's part of the reason that I am so passionate about dream work is because I really feel like dreams are one of those portals.
There's other ones,
Breath work and things,
But that is one of the ways to get there.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I sense from your beautiful work,
Dreams help you to really access all the different ways that the subtle energy body is speaking to us,
Which is trying actually to help us.
It's trying to help us release anger,
Shame,
Guilt,
Judgment,
All these things that keep us stuck in a cycle of discontentment and unhappiness.
And when we actually can be present with what's here and we actually have the opportunity to unfold it,
To let it unfurl,
As it were,
I sort of say to my clients and communities,
These things are like fist-stored emotions or a contraction in consciousness,
Basically somewhere in your field that wants to open.
It takes energy to stay contracted.
It takes energy to hold those dissonant energies in place.
So they don't want to stay there.
And the reason that they're showing themselves through what we experience as pain in the various ways we experience it is because it's trying to unfurl.
All of this work is fundamentally about how can we more and more deeply attend to what's here so we can more quickly release these stuck patterns and live in greater ease,
Flow,
And joy with life,
Which is what our birthright is,
Actually meant to be here and live in joy.
That's my firm belief.
That's what all the teachings say.
And that's my experience.
And it's not that,
It's just so important to say that it's not a point of Pollyanna to gloss over the difficult things that are happening to people on the planet.
It's more about reclaiming our wholeness so we can be of service in the way we want to be in the world.
And what I feel is that it's our greatest gift,
In fact,
To our family and our friends and ultimately to the planet is for us to release,
To become well and know that for ourselves.
And then we give others permission.
We help others.
One analogy I like to use really works for me.
The world is a little bit like a house on fire,
Isn't it?
I mean,
There's a lot of chaos in the world.
And each of us,
I think,
Is like a firefighter trying to come to the fire to help put out this house on fire.
And when we come bringing all of our stuff,
Unresolved,
All our guilt,
Shame,
Judgment,
Blame,
Whatever it is,
Anger,
Sadness,
We're a little bit like a firefighter coming to the fire saying,
Oh,
My God,
That's a huge fire.
Somebody do something.
We're like,
That's we're not prepared to help.
We're now part of the problem.
And to me,
This is about us becoming well so that we can be the firefighter who comes to the fire,
Who says,
Hello,
I'm here.
I'm ready to help.
Completely different energy.
Which one do we want to show up to the fire?
And so I think everybody,
My message is for everybody listening to like,
How do you want to show up to help this world that needs you?
And the beauty is that we get to solve the problem in ourselves,
To reclaim our joy so that we get to live in joy.
You get to now live from that place and you get to help the world that needs you.
Yes,
That's a beautiful message.
So many of us go through so many difficult things that the beauty,
The silver lining of that is that we then discover these wonderful modalities.
And that's the whole purpose of this podcast is to really elevate other women's experiences,
Other women's journeys.
And then what it is that they discovered that in doing so,
Then they were able to better themselves and then share that back to better the rest of collective.
Yeah,
Yeah,
Yeah.
It's it's beautiful,
Isn't it?
And there's so many people now that are making this shift into this beautiful life supporting way of being where we get to have our cups be full and and at the same time help everyone we care about so much.
Yeah.
So talk a little bit about the inner GPS.
Yeah.
Well,
I use the inner GPS as when you come into this way of being that I'm speaking about,
That we're talking about,
Really and knowing what your essential self is,
That's not the objects,
That's not the critical voice,
The judgmental voice and all these different parts that arrive with this essential,
Loving being that we are,
That can be with all the parts that are here.
Right.
And we can start to work with those parts.
That's the healing.
The healing is healing those different parts.
And as we come back to the essential truth of our being as whole and complete,
Then we also feel a kind of alignment with our soul's purpose and alignment with actually why we're here.
And that,
To me,
Is the inner GPS.
It's that alignment of now not listening to what society says we should do or what anybody else in your whole life has ever said you should do,
But rather like what what brings you to tears when you feel into you being that is the thing that just is the ache in your heart that you feel you must do for the world.
That's what you whatever that is.
That's the calling card of spirit that is asking,
That is pulling you in that direction.
And my experience is that calling card from spirit will keep calling you no matter how much you ignore it.
You might as well start to listen.
I couldn't agree more.
Right.
And that's the inner GPS.
That's your inner calling.
And we all,
The beautiful thing is,
I think we all have it.
I know we all have it.
It's not no,
No one's exempt from that because we all come from the same.
We are ultimately all connected and all consciousness.
So we all have that as an installed operating system for the human experience.
Incredible.
Well,
Thank you so much for being here today,
Holly.
Your story is so unique and I'm really curious to experience this for myself as well in the future.
So thank you so much for sharing it with all my work there.
Yeah,
You're sure welcome,
Megan.
Thank you so much for having me on.
Thank you.
