Meditation Jam - Celebrate Life With Guest - Anita Chellamah

I am so happy to share this beautiful and heartfelt talk I had with Artist and Addiction- and Trauma therapist Anita Chellamah.
Anita was a female front figure in the 80’s rock scene, enjoying everything from being a dancer at Top of the Pops, acting, to singer in Toto Coelo and The Cherry Bombz, to being a presenter at Sky Channel when her life turned, and she found herself lost in addiction.
We talk about her career and recovery . After you'll invited to a guided energy meditation.

Transcript

So that's why I'd say to anybody who is struggling and anybody in early recovery,

I always say it is painful.

I'm not going to lie,

It would be wrong to say it's not painful.

But the pain of addiction is a dirty rotten pain which carries on and on and on,

And like a hamster wheel that goes down.

The pain of recovery,

It's like a clean pain,

You work through it.

You know,

You work through it and you come through and things happen and you start feeling life on life's terms and feeling things in the present.

And in recovery,

It's not that you don't have pain anymore,

But you live in the reality unless you choose to then to pick up something.

And it doesn't have to be a dream,

It could be a behaviour,

You know,

To change the way you feel.

I love that description of the spiral that you say it's like it's pain,

But it's going upwards and out into something better instead of going downwards and just continuing and escalating.

Yes.

Hi,

You are listening to Meditation Jam with Maresa Rini and this is a pod with igniting energy meditations designed to connect you with your own beautiful inner wisdom that I like to call your pure heart.

That infinite,

Wise part of you that is connecting to all but also comes with its own journey,

Its own challenges,

And when we connect to this pure heart energy through the igniting meditations,

It bypasses all these and goes straight to your core so that you can open up and hear,

Feel,

Accept,

And have fun with your beautiful self.

And I see the energy as a key that unlocks part of us.

And I will also invite guests to speak about their work,

Experiences,

Journeys,

And listen to their wisdom.

So before we start,

I would also like to just put out a little warning that please don't be driving while listening to the meditation or doing something that demands your full attention because I know that for some this energy can put you into a deep relaxation,

Almost like sleep,

So please no driving.

Okay,

So warm welcome and let's start this meditation jam.

So warm welcome to today's episode and I'm really happy to share this talk with you all where we are going to talk with today's guest about celebrating life.

We are going to talk about tough subject,

Addiction and recovery.

And we are talking to artist and drug and addiction therapist,

Anita Schellema.

And Anita was one of the front female figures in the 80s rock scene.

She has been a dancer with Leg and Co on top of the Pops.

She has danced on the theatre scene in the West End in London.

She has been part of the group Toto Coelho.

She has been part of the group The Sherry Bonds.

She has acted and she has been a presenter on Sky Channel.

And then something happened that turned her life that we are going to talk about.

And I'm so happy to have Anita with us today because she is filled with wisdom and experiences and some rock and roll stories as well.

And after the talk we will go straight into an igniting energy meditation.

And today we are tuning into an energy helping us to clear our mind,

Our emotions,

Ignite our hearts,

Communication with our mind so that we can move through life with acceptance and trust.

And I hope you will enjoy it.

And now I say welcome to Anita.

Warm welcome,

Anita.

I am so happy to have you join today.

How are you?

Oh,

Well,

This is so wonderful seeing you,

Maria.

I'm so happy to be here.

And it's just lovely to talk to you.

Thank you for asking.

Thank you.

You also truly look amazing.

Thank you.

So how is London in autumn?

Because you're situated in London,

Right?

Yes.

Of course,

That's a really good question.

I sort of feel at the moment I'm sort of just going from home to work,

To site to site.

So London in autumn,

It's sunny today.

It's getting a little bit colder.

But it's but yes,

We have that huge event.

We did actually I did actually go into London last week and went to the place where the floor attributes for the Queen.

Oh,

So moving.

It was so beautiful.

My husband went in and we walked through from Green Park right through up into Queen Elizabeth Gate and stopped and had a coffee and it was just a really incredible.

It was an incredible experience,

Actually.

I was very,

Very moved by it.

I was in London when they buried Princess Diane and I remember the vibe in London.

It was so warm and open and quiet and still.

So I can totally get now with this as well,

That it's beautiful in a way,

Even though it's sad.

It was beautiful.

I mean,

And with Princess Diane,

I remember it was just this outpouring of emotion.

I felt the country was given permission to grieve because of her.

And I think a lot of people's grief,

A lot of things apart from Diane came up and with the Queen,

It was similar,

But it was different.

It was a very stately silence.

You use the word silence.

It was a sort of a stately silence,

But charged with emotion.

You could feel it.

And it was just so beautiful because it felt like everybody was there for a healthy reason,

For a loving reason and a respectful reason.

She really did sort of she didn't come out.

Wasn't she commanded it?

She didn't command it,

But she really extracted without realising a lot of respect from people.

And I could really feel that when I was there.

So it's been,

I was in Italy before then that I came back,

Then I went in.

But it's it's beautiful.

It's a beautiful day.

It's really lovely,

Actually.

Lovely.

So let's start because you have such a widespread on your plate,

What you have been doing.

So just let's start from the beginning.

Just started as a dancer.

Yes,

I fell into that,

Actually.

I come from Newcastle and originally and I came down to live with my mother in London.

And during the school holidays,

My mother was a designer and a friend at the top of the road.

Daughter was a ballet dancer.

And this lady was looking after me during the summer holidays.

And I went with her daughter because she was a ballet dancer to ballet school.

They allowed me to go.

And I'd always loved dancing about 12 years old.

I remember dancing to Elton John's first album,

Just dancing around my flat freely.

I love movement.

And then I went to her dancing school and then realised I loved it.

But the type of work I love to do,

The dancing I love doing,

I didn't have the strength or the technique to support.

So I stayed on.

Yeah,

I started quite late,

Actually,

Because I started 11,

12 years old.

I did two lessons when I was about four.

But apparently I didn't like the types and I didn't like being that smart and I didn't want to do it.

But I yeah,

And from there,

It's sort of like my passion for movement and moving and freedom and creating and expressing came.

It was the Morefield School of Dancing in East Ham.

And Miss Hester was the teacher who encouraged me to when I left school because I went through a really tough school.

I was really anyone listening out there,

Children's do what you need to do at school.

I rebelled.

There was a lot going on and I rebelled and I thought,

What am I going to do?

And so Miss Hester said,

Why don't you come and train with us?

The same school.

And I did a year there that I auditioned for the London School of Contemporary Dance and got into that and became a dancer.

And then I left to do my first job,

Which was popping brown sugar.

And in fact,

The director of that,

Charles Organs,

He's a black American.

It was a show all about the Harlem Renaissance.

OK.

And it was it was my first job in the West End theatre.

I got my equity.

It was amazing.

And he in October has been given in London a Lifetime Achievement Award because of the work he's done.

He's amazing director and choreographer.

So,

Yeah,

That was my first job.

And then I went into the key and I in the West End at the Palladium with E.

L.

Brinner.

And then I did the touring company,

Pans People.

Then I auditioned for Legs and Co.

On Top of the Pops.

It was my best friend,

Sort of like my sister,

Lynette,

Who is at the audition.

And she rang me and said,

Anita,

There's an audition going on.

I think you should be it.

She was so generous.

What a generous,

Generous thing to do.

She was at the audition,

Auditioning herself,

But she felt it was really right for me.

So she rang me and I gatecrashed the audition and I got it out of Legs and Co.

On Top of the Pops.

And Pauline Peters was leaving and they auditioned and there was like a thousand girls auditioned.

And I was very blessed to get it and did that in 1981.

I loved it.

And it sounds like just from the beginning with the dancing,

You just went straight into all these beautiful things to do.

And Top of the Pops.

I mean,

That was the thing at this time,

Right?

Oh,

My goodness.

It was incredible.

Yeah,

I couldn't.

I was like pinching myself.

I couldn't believe it because I'd grown up watching Top of the Pops because it was before we had all these media channels,

MTV and all the different channels.

It was Thursday night,

Top of the Pops.

That was the music.

So to be part of that was just,

Oh,

I was so blessed.

I felt so privileged.

So,

You know,

Really,

Really excited.

That's such a beautiful way to take it as well and not just feel like you should be there,

But really feel blessed.

And I think that creates also everything that comes with that.

Oh,

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

I agree,

Actually.

It really was.

It was because I was so well,

I was I was bit and all of doing it,

If I'm honest.

Because I'm going,

Wow,

You know,

I looked at these girls that were there already,

Sue and Bessie Hart,

Patty,

Most beautiful dancer,

She died this year.

And Lulu and Rosie and Jill.

And I looked at them and they were just so amazing.

And I was part of it.

How lucky was I?

And talented.

Yes,

I did.

I did.

I did.

I did have talent.

That did help to get.

You need a bit of that stuff.

Yeah.

But then you start to get into the music side.

How did that come about with the first?

Well,

My life has always been when I look at it,

I've never really planned.

And that the pros and cons of that are the pros.

I've had an incredible life.

Yeah.

And sort of like done so many different diverse things.

Cons are sometimes I've got friends who are really,

Really.

Sort of like focused and driven,

And I really admire that.

I was saying some of it rub off on me,

Please.

But yeah,

The singing,

I sort of had this urge to want to sing and I've done a little bit at school,

You know,

Like when you're in your senior school,

Going into different competitions and stuff for the school.

But I really wanted to sing.

And what happened was the lady in Jackie Thomas,

Who was the manager of Toto Coelho,

The first manager,

She,

Well,

She,

Yes,

The main manager,

Really.

She had seen me in Bubbling Brown Sugar and she first of all put me in a group with Clark Peters,

Who's an amazing actor and performance director,

And his wife and me.

And we did a group called,

Oh,

Gosh,

What were we called?

The singer was Boogie Airlines and they used it for the Persuaders in Italy.

And so she'd seen me in Bubbling Brown Sugar and approached me about doing this group.

And then from there I did Legs and Coelho and then she said there's a group she was managing and she thought I'd be really sort of like suited for it.

Well,

At the time,

Legs and Coelho had finished on Top of the Pops and we were touring and I sort of felt loyal to the group.

And wanted to be with the group.

So I didn't go initially.

And then Roz's sister was in the group.

She left to do a solo career and there was an opportunity and I said,

Well,

I'd like to.

Then I auditioned for it and then I got it.

So it was something I knew I wanted to sing.

I didn't know how or what I was going to do.

How I was going to do that.

But and then I got into the group and it was amazing.

We used to rehearse in Ballam and Sheen Duran was the founder of the group.

And then there was Roz Holness,

Lacey Bond,

Lindsay Danvers,

Incredible talents,

All of them.

And we rehearsed and then we supported Rose Royce on tour,

The group.

And we was meant to be signed to Trevor Horn.

We went in and recorded a song called Mirror Mirror,

Which Dolla recorded and released.

And it wasn't really us.

And then in between all of that,

We were Radio Choice.

Simon Lay came and saw us at Hammersmith Odeon and offered us a deal straightaway and to go in the studio and do everything.

And we did that.

And that's how I EAT Cannibals came out.

And it was in Sweden we got a gold record.

Yeah,

I mean,

If you are in my age,

And I'm sure after as well,

You've danced and rocked and heard that.

And it was just,

And it was,

It was just,

We had a real fun time.

Unfortunately,

We got ripped off financially.

Yeah,

But I had a great time.

We had such a,

We really did have a good time and it was so funny because our initial costumes were bin bags.

We would make our own bin bags just before the show.

And because I was a punky sort of person,

So mine was great.

So we just ripped things.

Yeah,

Because other people's when they had corsets out of bin bags making it,

You know,

We had fun and I've made,

And I'm still in contact with those lovely women.

Yeah,

But then you change to another group.

Did that come just like smoothly or was it like a space between or?

Well,

I know when I look back,

It just made me smile.

Yeah,

It's a journey I've been on.

I've always loved rock.

I've always loved rock and blues,

Always.

And I love reggae.

I mean,

I love all music,

But I was always drawn.

My,

My earliest memories growing up were my mum dancing to Satisfaction and Jimi Hendrix.

These are my earliest memories of rock and my father loved jazz and blues.

So I think I was very influenced by my parents choice of music.

And when I was coming back with Tertico,

I think we were coming back from Sweden,

Actually,

On the plane,

And we ended up sitting in the middle of Hanoi Rocks.

And I didn't know who they were.

Yeah.

And,

You know,

It was before I got sober and razzed Randy into my coffee.

I didn't realise he was doing that at that point.

It was eight in the morning and they were all just having fun,

Just a laugh.

And then with Toto Coelho,

I got to a point where I really,

I wanted to try and write.

We were writing.

We started writing.

And what was really sad about the group was there was a lot of creativity in the group.

And when the record company took it,

There was things they said we would be able to do afterwards.

And of course,

They,

They didn't let that happen.

Yeah.

And so the creativity was sort of,

You know,

There was things that were,

They did it their way,

Basically.

So I got to a point where I sort of wanted to expand.

And I left the group.

Because of that link in the airport on that plane journey,

The producer of one of the Toto Coelho videos had said to me,

I think there's someone you should work with.

And it was Andy McCoy.

And I thought,

Isn't that a weird,

That's a weird link.

So he contacted him and we started writing together.

And it was originally for trying to get a solo deal for myself.

And through that,

Then the awful,

Awful tragedy about Razzle being killed.

Then Mike left the band and then there was like,

It was nasty.

There was,

You know,

Jan,

Jan,

Terry and Andy.

And then Andy talked about Timo being in the band and said,

You and then said to me,

Do you want to do a band?

So we used the songs we'd written and use them for the cherry bombs.

I mean,

We did some Hanoi stuff as well,

But like House of Ecstasy,

Declaration,

Which was used on Nastia and Andy,

Like Andy and myself co-wrote and Phenine Feeling and things.

So we used the material that I was originally going to be trying to get a solo deal with.

Oh,

Good.

Yeah.

As well as material that Andy had and using Hanoi songs as well and cover Travelling Bad,

Girls in Love rather.

So,

Yeah,

That sounds,

So all of a sudden I ended up at Brock's.

And it was just so,

When I look back,

It's actually,

It's,

It sort of felt like a natural progression,

Even though people were going to me in interviews.

How did you end up in this band?

Because they were talking to me about people because I went to watch the band Hanoi Rocks before we did the cherry bombs.

Because I hadn't heard of them because I was moving in very different circles.

Even though I love rock music,

I didn't know of Hanoi.

And so I went to watch one of their gigs and I went,

Oh my goodness,

There's so many people.

They were queuing around the Lyceum,

It was huge.

You know,

It was just interesting because a lot of the interviews I do as well,

People would ask me things,

And I honestly didn't know some of the questions they were asking me.

Because I sort of entered into a world I had,

Did not have a knowledge about really.

But I just knew I loved the music,

I knew I loved performing.

So that's all I ever really,

You know,

I wasn't,

That's what took,

Always led me,

What I felt.

That's a good guide.

It's a good guide.

What you love.

Yeah.

Yeah,

And you toured of course with this all over in the States or with the cherry bombs you were touring?

Yes,

We toured all over Europe,

We toured to America,

We supported Poison in America.

Unfortunately,

Because it was,

I think because it was so intense,

The touring.

Yeah,

And we were quite,

You know,

I don't know if it was Terry,

But somebody we said bands live out their name.

And we were called the cherry bombs which is an explosion,

And I think,

I think what happened was it was such an intense energy,

Because we were quite strong characters as well,

And it did explode really.

And,

And it got to it was really sad in a way when I look back,

Because we got to New York,

And we were,

You know,

We had all the record companies from the 10 week tour we'd done,

And Elektra wanted to sign us,

And Andy and myself left the band,

We did reading,

We came back to England,

Did the Reading Festival.

The sad thing when I look back at that,

It was at a point where we're actually about to just probably move into the next level of access to the band.

But at that point,

And this isn't blaming anybody because it was where my head was at,

Really,

My head was not in a good place.

I think for my mental health,

My friend always says to me,

You always come back to base.

There's something in you that takes you back to base,

Meaning that I'm back to that safe place and I think my safe place was I left.

When I look back,

It's not about the others,

It was where my head was at really.

And is it between this time that you also become Sky,

The television centre?

Yeah.

Is that between or at the same time?

So,

Just before we went on the American tour,

Gail Clayton,

Who was the producer at Sky,

And it was in the first five years,

I was interviewed as the Cherry Bombs,

And Mick Wall interviewed me,

And he was lovely.

And he said there's an opportunity for a presenter,

Are you interested?

I said well actually,

I'd love to but I'm going on tour with the band,

And that's my thing.

But of course,

After that tour,

We'd sort of exploded,

And I'd left the band and I rang her,

And they then had got a lady who was very known over here as a presenter called Anthea Turner.

She then took,

Obviously got that job.

So I spoke to Gail,

I said look I'm back and,

And she actually took me on,

Hired me.

And so I did with Gary Davis who is,

He did at the top of the box,

He was a very known radio on DJ,

As well.

He and myself did the first ever World Music Video Awards that went out.

Yeah,

It went out live,

And the autocue,

And it all broke,

And I had to waffle.

To this day I don't know what I said,

But it was scary.

But I remember Samantha Fox was the artist,

And Bob Geldof,

And the Boob Time Act was on,

And it's so weird because a friend of mine,

Zara Phillips,

She does a lot of music and acting and writing and one woman,

She does a lot of things,

Very talented.

He was the backing singer for Bob Geldof,

And I was a presenter.

And then in recovery,

When we,

I met her when I got sober.

Yeah,

We remembered we met each other,

But we didn't know each other.

It was so amazing,

Really amazing.

And that really takes us in because you're living now the rock and roll,

What everyone thinks is rock and roll with alcohol and drugs and everything,

But then there is like this turning point where you want to get sober.

Oh my goodness,

It was,

It was,

Yes.

I'm so grateful I am.

I mean,

It got to a place where Sky,

I sang their fifth year anniversary song,

I was doing,

Presenting live show,

I did loads of shows on Sky and it was amazing.

And then Sky sort of were closing that channel down,

And,

You know,

It was a time when I can really look back,

And they were letting go of people.

And I was in a place at that point my addiction had really started to take,

I mean,

It wasn't,

I wasn't drunk on set,

But my decisions,

The belligerence,

You know,

I could feel my,

The fear base of addiction,

It's a fear based illness,

I could feel that it was really rising,

And my attitude was not,

It was becoming quite belligerent,

But it was at the same time I loved what I did,

But I was getting into a place so when that ended,

Because they ended up,

They closed down Skytrax.

And when that closed,

And I think I was one of the first presenters to actually go because we all went by,

You know,

And,

And I can now look back and I can see,

Because they were saying to me go and get these deals with these shops and these brands and I was going no I'm,

I'm doing me you know I was very,

I became very rigid in my thinking,

Very,

And you know I can see it was the addiction,

The mental side of the addiction was taking over,

And when I,

My contract finished with Sky,

And I thought what am I going to do,

And I honestly didn't know,

And by then the addiction has really taken over,

And I was lost.

I was absolutely lost.

I was sitting there going,

I don't know what to do.

I don't know,

I was just frozen in fear,

And I reached out for help,

And I got the help,

And my life turned around and it was really but in the first year,

I was,

It was really scared when I look back,

Because I,

I was,

You know,

Getting help from my addiction,

And I wasn't,

You know,

I've been had my own show on Sky for quite a while,

For a long time,

Different shows and all of a sudden I had no money I was in court for my taxes that I hadn't paid.

Yeah,

I was,

You know,

There was all sorts of things happening,

And I had to start working.

Because I had to pay the bills.

Yeah,

I wasn't having cars picking me up and taking me and living this life,

And all of a sudden I'm going along to,

In where I lived in Kensal Rise,

It was a health shop.

They were lovely couple,

And they had a signed photo of me on the wall,

And I went to them for a job and I helped behind the cashier serving people,

And when anybody came in,

I'd go running out the back.

And I thought,

I'd always said we are all equal,

But all of a sudden I realised I struggled,

My pride was quite,

You know,

Because all of a sudden I was like doing stuff I was going,

I shouldn't be doing this,

But I was doing it.

It was actually the best thing for me.

I can look back now and think,

It really got me down to earth.

It was hard.

And then I went to work at a place called the London lighthouse,

Which was an absolutely amazing oasis of a place with when HIV and AIDS hit.

Princess Diana used to come in there and I went into,

And I was cleaning,

Because I had no qualifications.

And I remember I was in there and I got the name change to residential unit assistant.

In all fairness,

We did do more than just clean,

We made little meals and we sat with people,

But,

You know,

It was my,

When I look back,

It was very grandiose.

But the place was amazing because back in those days in the early 90s,

People weren't accepting of people with HIV.

And it was amazing,

Like Elton John dedicated his,

All his money from sacrifice.

There was Hockney's on the wall,

And it was the most incredible place to work.

Tragic place because people are dying all the time.

Yeah,

But in that place,

Even though I thought,

God,

I can't believe I'm not performing anymore.

And I tried,

I got a band together,

I tried,

But it just at that point getting sober,

Couldn't cope.

Yeah,

Not cope.

So I just needed to earn money to pay my bills,

And by going,

And this is why I believe what's,

You know,

I believe I've got a higher power and I believe I'm guided.

Yeah,

And if I'm open to it,

And I thought that was the worst thing in the world to have to be doing cleaning work and all,

But actually in that place.

It was so incredibly,

The experience I had there and also,

They ended up paying a third of my counselling qualification.

So that's how I ended up because one of the people there.

Initially,

There was training at the London lighthouse,

And I just wanted to do the training to get away from the work so I hated the work.

I love the place,

I love the people but I hated the work.

Let me go and train,

And by doing the training,

They ended up letting me go on a counselling course with all the counsellors,

Don't ask me how they let me do that.

And I ended up going,

This is amazing because it was the only other thing apart from performing that really grabbed me.

Yeah,

Because I'm very curious about people and I love people,

And I love trying to understand processes and why people do things and why I do things,

And it captivated me,

It really I was captivated.

From there,

I started doing my counselling training.

I qualified in 98,

I should have qualified a year or two earlier but what happened was I was so scared about going to do the work.

Yeah,

I ended up not doing any,

You have to do all your voluntary hours in order to get your pass.

I was scared to be let loose on people initially because I was really nervous,

So I am not doing my voluntary hours,

Till I've done all my,

All my academic part,

I should have qualified a year or two,

I can't have qualified earlier but I ended up qualifying much later because I did the voluntary hours after,

You know,

At the end of my course not at the beginning.

So in 98 I actually qualified,

I started working as a voluntary counsellor in 1997 for the Drug and Alcohol Foundation,

And I was also being paid as an educator to go into schools with young people.

And then in 98,

I qualified,

And then I was working with treatment centres,

Women treatment centres,

I worked in a male treatment centre using my drama skills and mixing that with recovery.

And then I started working in residential and day treatment programmes with addicts,

And also families,

And people affected by it.

And also I was doing stuff at the lighthouse,

They also had encouraged me,

It was amazing that place because they offered me to do the drama workshop there.

And so I had,

I was not a trained drama therapist so I wasn't going to do that so,

But I contacted the lady I used to go to for classes,

And she did it,

And she came and she,

We worked together and we worked a programme for people affected by HIV and AIDS through drama.

There was opportunities that happened,

I didn't plan,

But they were given to me and I would go,

Oh how am I going to do,

Okay right,

Yeah,

So I sort of lurched into things but in a way,

You know,

It's felt very natural and quite organic really.

Yeah,

I think because listening to you,

I can hear,

I mean you are so responsive to your bodies or your heart or whatever your soul,

Whatever you want to call it,

Guidance and it's like you take it and run with it and then we can think after wow was that the right or wrong decision but in the moment you follow it and it always ends up being the right decision in a way when you follow your heart I think but I also want to say because you said you,

You felt that in when you started your recovery you felt you needed help and I think that is so important that you actually asked for help because I think there are a lot of people who,

You know you're out on the deep end with your addiction whatever it might be but you're too scared or too,

You don't want to show your colours or you know,

So I mean it's so amazing that you asked for help.

I feel very blessed that I had that what they call in recovery that moment of clarity,

Where I saw the reality of what I was,

Where I was,

And I'm grateful that I did reach out for help at that point,

Because the illness of addiction sort of tells you you haven't got it and it's an illness of perception,

And quite often,

You know,

With addiction as it progresses,

Going from you know that there's a lovely set of me,

People won't see this because I'm doing it with my hands but it's not the say the right hand and the left hand start equally,

And one side is the addict and the other side's the healthy self.

Yeah,

The addict takes the drink of the drug,

And the healthy self initially enjoys mood change,

Oh this is good,

But then the addict takes more of these consequences and the healthy self which is like the conscience goes oh no we need to stop that,

We need to stop,

Oh gosh there's shame,

There's feelings around it,

The addict continues,

And in the end the addict knocks the healthy self to the healthy self is so far down,

And at the very end the addict is ruling,

And that's in that sense of isolated in the addict mind,

Not connected to others humans,

And when those moments come up where you are aware of the remorse or aware of what's happened,

The shame is so engulfed and you just want to reach out and change the way you feel.

So when loved ones and family members say,

You know,

It's as if you don't care for me.

When an addict is an act of addiction you're looking at the person you think you love but you're actually looking at the addict.

Yeah,

They don't,

And the only thing the addict really cares about is how am I going to get my next,

Whatever it is,

Whether it's a drink,

Whether it's a drug,

Whether it's sex,

Whether it's gambling,

Whether it's shopping,

Whatever it is.

And so what that's I always say with family members,

Because I now do,

I worked at the Priory and I was doing the trauma lead at the Priory and doing also some of the trauma workshops there,

And being trained in the peer melody,

The PIP model which is incredible model,

But also to DBT,

What I did the family group,

Sorry I'm going off on the kilter here but I did the family group,

And continue to work with families,

Family groups.

Now,

As well in the private practice,

And what I was saying,

You know,

We say the three C's you didn't cause it you can't control it you can't cure it.

Yeah,

And it's really important for loved ones to know that until the addict wants to get well,

There's your powerless,

Your powerless over,

And what tends to happen is the addict is focusing on their substance or their work behavior or whatever it is,

And then the family members and the loved ones focus on the addict,

So they become equally addicted.

So the addictive process just,

You know,

Sort of just keeps going into a hamster wheel so it's about how do you detach,

Love,

To love the person but hate the illness.

That's the bit,

You know,

And yes for me I was very blessed because I think I was very blessed,

The lady who was my,

Who really helped me a lot,

She,

She died this year.

And so,

You know,

I'm 34 years sober and she was there from the beginning till this year,

And so that was huge,

But at the same time it was,

There's other people who've helped me along the way and it's so important.

I just want to say for anyone out there who is in the throes of addiction.

It is a day at a time,

But there is always,

There is a way out,

You can,

You know,

You can really,

There is a way out.

And it's about reaching out,

And in the height of addiction the last thing you really want to do is reach out.

Yeah,

And so it's forcing yourself to do something you might emotionally and mentally not want to do,

Because we tend to go to the head for the,

For the answer but with an addict,

You're,

You're illnesses in your head so you're going to the problem for the solution,

If that makes sense.

So yes,

I just,

I was very blessed because I went and I threw myself in because at that point,

I think this is another thing you know,

You know I've had this career.

At that point,

You know,

Steven Spielberg wasn't knocking on my door or you know sort of like this amazing rock producer wasn't saying hey we need you.

So I was sort of left with me,

And I had no money,

I was in court for taxes,

For not paying taxes which,

Some of it took me nine years to pay off,

And I had nothing to do.

And so I went and I was,

Threw myself into recovery,

Into recovering from addiction.

And so,

Yeah,

So really,

Maybe if I mean if you had this breaking point hadn't come maybe you have continued and continue the addiction as well you don't know.

You just don't,

I mean I think I was very bad because I didn't get it straight away for six weeks,

I sort of thought it,

And I kept trying to do it my way.

And it was,

You know what I'd say to anyone out there is,

You know,

If I'd waited to feel 100% an addict,

Or an alcoholic,

I'd still be in it.

Well I wouldn't be here and I'd be dead,

I know that.

I actually thought,

Let me just try,

And all the right things felt wrong,

And the wrong things felt right because everything that's familiar is everything you've got to change.

And,

You know,

So you've got to go against what you're feeling so the feelings aren't the facts of the situation.

And it's a hard one because your intuition is really important,

Of course it is.

But when you're in active addiction,

All of that gets sort of,

You know,

It gets,

It gets pushed down.

So what's operating is your addiction is in full flight just the next whatever.

So when you're listening to your head telling you,

It's a really good idea to go to that,

An early recovery to go to that huge reunion where everyone's going to be drinking using you'll be fine.

No.

Yeah,

Against it,

You know,

It was,

You know,

And I think the thing is you know the fear based illness,

I remember being in recovery,

Going to visit people I knew who were really lovely people,

And all of a sudden my palms were sweating and I was going,

Why is that I was scared,

I'd never felt fear before,

Because I'd always medicated it and you know and I think also from the moment I started an addictive process I stopped growing emotionally.

So I was a 29 year old woman with the emotions of a 12-13 year old,

Because I didn't know how to live life.

So I had to learn that and it's really hard at the beginning.

So that's why I'd say to anybody who is struggling and anybody in early recovery.

I always say,

It is painful I'm not going to lie,

It would be wrong to say it's not painful,

But it's the pain of addiction is a dirty rotten pain which carries on and on and on,

And like hamster wheel but goes down.

The pain of recovery,

It's like a clean pain you work through it.

You know it's,

You work through it and you come through,

And things happen and you start feeling life on life's terms and,

And feeling things in the present,

And in recovery it's not that you don't have pain anymore but you live in the reality,

Unless you choose to then to pick up something,

And it doesn't have to be a dream.

It could be a behavior,

You know,

To change the way you feel.

I love that description of the spiral that you say it's like it's pain,

But it's going upwards and out into something better instead of going downwards and just continuing and escalating.

Yes.

So now you are working a full time therapist with addictions and trauma.

Yeah,

Well actually,

Yes I've been,

I was doing,

I was in a place called Sanctuary Lodge with UCAT,

They're a big,

I worked there and then I worked at the Priory,

And I was working on the addiction program and then I was trauma lead there and went and got trained in this amazing model I was just,

I started talking about the peer melody model which is about,

You know,

Developmental,

How we develop and how that affects our patterns,

You know,

Patterns and adulthood.

And so putting those things together,

And also I trained in DBT,

Dialectical behavior therapy and putting all of those things together is an incredible way forward.

I think for any individual actually,

I've been,

Because everything I talk about I've applied to myself,

You know,

And then I've now at the moment,

I'm a therapeutic lead for domestic abuse charity which was a totally different.

Oh,

Okay.

Yeah,

But it isn't,

It isn't because it's all about how do you,

How do you get in touch with that part of you that needs to heal and be in healthy relationships,

And how do you really look at what's happening.

Learn from what's happening,

Not berate yourself,

Have compassion and kindness,

And be really loving to yourself,

But also accept what's happening,

But change it.

Yeah,

Oh that's so good.

You know,

It's,

And so I've been very blessed to be in this totally different environment because I've been in from addiction,

Addiction and trauma.

And so now,

So I feel as if once again I'm evolving,

And I've been doing my pilot practice and as I was saying to you just before there's a man called Nuno Albeke.

He's in Portugal I'm going to be doing some groups in Portugal on zoom because the great,

The only good thing that came out of COVID and it was because COVID was such a difficult,

Difficult,

Awful time for everybody.

Yeah,

The one positive thing that came from having to work differently was I was able to then expand and,

You know,

Doing going to be doing groups in Portugal,

And which is amazing.

So yeah,

So I feel very blessed.

I mean,

I can feel I'm in a transition at the moment and I'm not sure where the next,

What's going to be the next.

This is leading me somewhere,

All these different models,

And the post induction trauma model therapy model that DBT addiction all of it because I use it all around addiction and trauma,

And the different places I work and the different things I'm also working for a gambling organization called Gordon Moody,

All these different and changing pathways is the domestic abuse charity I work for all these different places and things.

I feel as if are sort of just taking me down the path.

And it's just having to trust because sometimes that can be scary,

You know when contracts end or funding is not there.

And things are coming up at the moment where I don't know where the next,

Where I'm going totally depending on funding with certain things but then I have my private practice,

Which I've been developing,

And that's been exciting.

And,

You know,

I've been very blessed,

Psychiatrist from the party been referring clients to me as well so there's a growth in one bit and then there's uncertainty in the other but I suppose that's life,

Isn't it,

We don't have the only thing I'm certain on this right now.

I don't know what's going to happen in two seconds.

No,

And that's where the trust comes in that I feel you have and looks like I had it through life and it's like also leaning back on your stories knowing that you,

You're evolving and it's moving you forwards and into another new exciting place and it's not judgment if one is better or worse it's just expanding and it's just keep on going,

That's experiencing new things and developing and,

As you say with zoom and the internet and everything it's,

We are not so closed into one area you can go wild,

Worldwide.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah,

So if anyone is listening now and thinking,

Oh,

I have someone I want to talk to Anitha or we will put the link to do you have a web page or I'm in the process.

Yeah,

Later.

I'm in the process of doing a web page but people can always contact me on my,

On my email.

I will put your email below,

People can contact me on my email I'm actually trying to build that.

I'm in the process of doing because the technical side of things because this is,

I was saying to you before this friends of mine who are really together,

Focused and driven and they saw all that side that I tend to go with what I'm feeling.

And so the,

The admin side of things even I'm very together with my clients and my,

You know,

Every on the places where it has to be together.

But creating websites and doing I have really shied away from that I keep meaning to,

But I know I need to do this,

I need to drag myself into this century in the way that I need to,

And do that,

Which I'm going to.

So yes,

No you said you meditate a bit,

Do you feel that has been some help during your Oh my God yeah,

I learned,

But it's really funny when I was,

We about to go on tour with the cherry bombs.

I learned transcendental meditation,

And I remember at the time then there's just this is,

This is chose my addiction as well,

A little bit at the time because even though I'd learned to meditate so I was always searching for something,

Actually.

Yeah,

And I was always searching but I didn't know I was searching,

And I didn't know I felt lacking on certain levels.

Yeah.

And when I met the transcendental meditation,

I,

We got on the plane to fly to America and they said,

The planes delayed we're going to give you free champagne.

Well,

I was about to meditate meditation out the window.

But I've got to say,

Until I did meditate because it is when you do it it's like two to three hours sleep.

I learned it for that initially but I've always.

I've always done it.

I haven't done it always every day,

I've got to be honest,

I haven't always done it twice a day,

But I've always meditate so I meditated this morning.

And I'd be meditating and because my,

My life changed again,

And instead of working one place five days I was three days,

And then doing private practice to,

You know,

Doing different things.

It freed up a bit more time so I could sort of having to get up it every day a certain time I can get up a little bit later,

And I can spend time doing a little bit of meditation.

So I do that and when I'm really tired and I'm really stressed that's always a time.

I don't want to do it but that's always a time to know I need to do it.

Yeah,

That's so good.

You know it's,

Yeah,

I love talking to you I'm not going to take up all day for you but I have three questions that I ask all my guests so what is the most positive thing you take with you from what you have been through the most positive thing,

Or one positive thing that you've been through that it doesn't have to be?

Well there's a few,

No,

The most I've is that I'm always,

I can be curious,

And I can turn the situation and look,

Not be Pollyanna and go everything's just great when it's not,

But actually I think you know sometimes my darkest times have been incredible turning points.

And,

You know,

They've been like breakthroughs instead of breakdowns,

You know,

Even though I have broken down it's been a breakthrough to change.

The greatest gift I've been given is to,

I don't always like it,

Is to be able to accept myself for where I'm at,

Not where I want to be,

To accept myself who I am,

Who I am today,

And to make decisions from that,

Because there's things in early recovery I'd want to do,

And I would almost want to drink again because I didn't have the foundation to do that,

Or in my personality it wasn't suited for certain things at that point.

And I think the greatest gift I've been given is to be able to see something and accept it,

Even if I don't like it,

But accept it and know I need to implement that to keep me healthy and sober and clean,

And,

You know,

Alive,

Actually,

If that makes sense.

Yeah,

I totally love it.

I think it's such a beautiful lesson,

And I love that you're so aware of it.

Thank you.

Yeah,

It's really I mean it's so important for everyone,

Not only if you have an addiction but to actually accept where you are.

And,

Yeah,

So do so.

So,

And when do you feel most like yourself at peace and relaxed.

You know,

When I'm in that place.

When I'm in that place of acceptance,

I might be upset,

And I might be really pissed off I want to go do something or something's not happening was that not happening.

Actually,

It's probably not happening but when I actually accept.

Yeah,

For me it's all linked.

When I actually accept and I can just go,

Like,

Being the now how blessed are you to have for now.

How are you to have what you have you know I've got wonder my family I've got,

You know,

How blessed,

I'm alive.

And what you know the path I was on I might not have been alive,

And to get really get in touch with my gratitude.

When I can be in that place.

That's when I'm at most peace.

If that it's not a place or a thing.

It's a frame of it's a state of mind for me.

Yeah.

Again,

Love it,

Because that's that's when we are peace when we when we do accept.

Yes.

And so what is the joy for you today and if you were to put the color on it what color would it be.

What's the joy.

I love feeling connected.

Yeah.

And I love my favorite colors.

It's funny because I always loved yellow,

And I thought I love red at one point but I love you,

But actually I love green.

I'm so drunk my car.

My husband did bought me a yellow,

And little massive years ago and I burst into tears it was like she was called to Lula,

She was a little master MX five,

And I loved her by changing my car I've got a little green metallic green,

Dark green racing green mini corral de.

I love,

I love the color green,

I'm drawn to and it's so interesting because when I was at school,

And my senior school and I had this teacher that was still have great skills with with people with certain people with certain with people who are very students in a certain way she was great but she used to put red lines to my creativity and stuff and yeah,

But I used to hate I thought I hated green for many years it's because of my school uniform.

And the reason I hate it but I actually think probably my favorite color.

I love bright colors.

I'm very drawn to green.

I love silver as well actually.

But I'm very drawn green,

Yellow,

There's something very happy about you know I'm childlike for me,

But green is got a depth to it which I feel is,

I don't know it's just feels really wholesome and,

And as substance,

And I just love the fact that feels really solid.

And also,

You always talk about the heart energy it's pink and green.

Oh,

Okay.

Yeah,

So you have it's like heart color in a way.

Okay,

Yeah.

Okay,

Thank you.

What is in your pipeline now is it continuing developing your own practice or are you continuing because I know you took up some music as well.

Will you continue with that.

Well,

I came back to music again in 2012,

And I started working with the beautiful Timo and also Dave Figueroa,

And as everyone knows who knows that Timo,

He tried,

You know,

For me it's where he died this year,

And we had a wonderful creative process,

And I still sing songs and melodies and lyrics into my phone.

Yeah,

I haven't found anyone to work with,

Because I think it was like a grieving process for me as well around,

Of course,

As I just loved working with him,

But I would like to recall,

I'd like to do music,

I feel like,

You know,

I really,

That's still there for me,

And one day I'm going to do an album I don't know how or when,

But I would love to do that just to express me.

And I would love to do some more music I do love it.

I don't know how or when that's going to look because I'm not out doing it right now.

But,

You know,

I love performing and I do love creativity and it's a big,

It's a big part of me and so it was really nice to go back to,

We used to sit in Timo's front room and there'd be Timo,

Dave should go on and myself and my beautiful friend Annette who was like my,

She's like my sister and she was doing backing vocals and we'd sit and we'd create and we'd rehearse and it was great,

It was just lovely being together,

All doing it well,

You know,

It's just amazing.

I love performing as well don't get me wrong,

But it was just working with people that you're kind of like a pair of old slippers.

It wasn't ego,

It was just,

Oh,

It's lovely.

And being,

You know,

It's just wonderful.

Taking the good parts of what you used to do,

Like,

As you say the creative part and,

Yeah,

And also when we did the video that was fab,

I love doing that.

And it was,

You know,

Terry was doing it as well,

He's still my really close friend,

And it was just all of us together and it was just fun to be creative.

And of course we had Liam Hooper who was the director,

He was fabulous.

And that was a story I must,

I just very quickly tell you that it was at this time,

It was really amazing because I wanted to do music,

Obviously,

And I was doing it and then there was a recording,

And this lovely producer Andy did it and we went and recorded the three tracks and then I chose the single to do a video,

And I didn't have the money,

I mean because obviously I was paying for things myself I didn't have,

I wasn't earning money that I thought I could do that.

And then what was amazing.

This guy,

Paul Hooper contacted me,

He's a fan of the Cherry Bombs and he contacted me age ago and said about his son was going into directing or whatever.

And it just come out,

I think the British School of Anyway I contacted him,

In the end,

Liam his son directed that video but I didn't know,

Paul put 1000 pounds up.

And so I was so touched when I found that out.

Actually,

I didn't know that.

So we got together there was Terry,

Dave,

Me,

Timo and Lynette,

And then there was Liam and his crew,

Really talented lot of people,

And he's in Los Angeles now,

And they were,

You know,

These young talented lovely people.

And we did,

We spent two three days doing this,

They give me the answer video.

We had such much,

And that's about my higher power,

And it was so funny because originally Liam and me had a conversation because it looks quite dark in the video,

And he was saying about this voodoo doll and I'm like,

No,

No,

No,

This is about,

This is about my higher power.

And Mark,

Who plays the guy in it.

Originally,

I wanted that to be me,

To be two parts of me,

But it was me that was sort of the part that was really sort of still caught up in everything and,

And then there's the other part give me the answer because always you're always going give me the answer,

Give me the answer,

Give me the answer,

I need to know now,

I need to know now.

And so it was in the,

There was the healthy part.

And so Mark represented my addict.

And so then,

You know,

At the end,

I know they did a little pretend alligator atem.

But it was about that,

And in the video,

It's a bit when he goes into this sort of like fluorescent colours,

And then when he gives me the photograph with him,

At that point,

It's like,

I just say that,

No,

I don't want to hurt you.

Just go.

And so,

I mean,

It does get eaten at the end by an alligator on the video,

But it was about addiction,

But I couldn't afford to do a video with all the effects that that would take.

So he represented,

You know,

So sobriety and the illness.

So I miss doing that.

I've got to be honest,

I do love the book.

It just I don't know where,

Where do I start with all of that right now,

You know,

Because it's about financing myself and stuff and it's,

You know,

Especially at the moment with all the crisis of finances and stuff in the world.

You know,

If I had to say,

You know,

Looking at your,

Your path in life,

Something will fall down for you.

I think if it's meant to be,

It will be.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

So who knows,

I'm quite,

You know,

I'm open to whatever's the next.

Who knows.

So,

Anita,

I'm really,

This has been such a pleasure talking to you and I'm so happy that you joined and thank you so much.

Oh,

Thank you,

Marisa.

Beautiful,

Beautiful to see.

I always loved your energy when I met you.

You've got such a wonderful,

Wonderful energy.

Oh,

Thank you.

And you're doing amazing things so it's just so lovely.

Hopefully it won't be that we'll see each other more than the next,

God how many years.

Yes,

I can't even think because then you suddenly realise,

Is it like,

Not 10,

But I think eight or something.

It's something crazy.

Yeah,

It is.

So it's like,

Wow,

How old am I?

I know that's the thing that's,

That's true.

So thank you so much for joining.

Oh,

Thank you,

Marisa.

Gorgeous to see you.

Thank you for asking me.

Okay,

So now it's time to do some meditation jam.

So if you like,

You can pause and stretch your legs before you continue with this meditation.

Right now we're going into meditation that is helping us to clear our emotions,

Our thoughts,

Ground your body and open yourself up to that beautiful,

Lovely,

Universal connected heart chakra or your heart wisdom to use that as your guide moving forward.

So I hope you will enjoy this meditation and let's start.

So please get seated with your back straight and your palms up or if you're lying down your palms up,

Close your eyes and we start by taking three deep breaths.

So Bu of trust,

And imagine that where you are sitting or lying down,

There is a pillar of red healing earth energy that is coming from Mother Earth and it's going up through you,

Around you,

Covering your body inside and out and continuing up and out into the sky and the universe.

And we now have this red healing earth energy keeping us grounded on this journey.

And imagine that there is a similar pillar of divine bright light,

A universal energy that is coming from above and it's going down through you,

Around you,

Covering your body inside and out and continuing down into Mother Earth.

And we now have this universal energy keeping us balanced on this journey.

Now we take another deep breath.

Imagine that you are standing high up upon a cliff with a beautiful water beneath you and it's a beautiful day but there is a strong wind that is moving through and around you and you can see the water is shimmering from the sun and in movement with the current,

With the waves.

But even though there is all this movement going on around you,

You are feeling peaceful,

Steady just as the cliff that you are standing upon,

Feeling one with Mother Earth,

Feel her strength moving through you,

Holding you in that peaceful way that can make you relax and let go,

Even though there is a swirl of wind going through you and around you.

Just let your body be held by Mother Earth,

Be stilled by a presence and all you have to do is stand here and accept it into your body,

Into your mind.

And if you have a hard time letting go of thoughts,

The day,

Plans,

Then ask this wind to take it with it as it moves through you,

To release you from any thoughts on repeat,

From any old beliefs,

Just allow it to be swept away,

Effortless.

Maybe you see or hear or sense it as it moves through you.

And if nothing,

Don't worry as by you being here listening to this,

Your energy is doing the work for you so you can just relax,

Sit back and keep on following the journey.

And it's a beautiful wind that is sweeping away,

What's no longer for you.

And we are just staying here,

Allowing these two move through us and we send it into our future to clear our path,

To clear our mind and allow it to be opened and free,

To trust the current of life that is moving through us just like the water beneath us.

And if you were to be in the water right now,

Trying to swim against the current,

That would be a struggle.

But if you just let go and allow it to take you,

You can enjoy the ride,

Floating and soaking up the sun.

As you are being swept away by this rapid moving water,

After you have cleared your mind,

All you have to do now is relax and enjoy the ride.

Know that you will get to a place that is perfect for you.

And as you are floating here in the water,

You get the opportunity to clear your emotions,

To let go of any lingering emotions that are holding you back.

Any could be emotions you know about or unconscious emotions,

Just allow this water to clear it for you at this point,

Making you feel lighter,

Freer and all you have to do is allow the current to move you and clear your emotions.

The ones that are no longer working are hindering you in your growth and life.

Take a deep breath,

Feel your body relax even more.

And as you are floating here in the water,

The sun is shining down upon you,

Around you,

Making a beautiful shimmer that is moving through the water and you and is moving to your heart chakra,

The centre of your chest,

As a ray of light expanding and deepening your connection to your beautiful inner self,

To your heart and with your cleared mind and cleared emotions,

There is a beautiful connection and communication coming through,

Moving through your entire body,

Starting at your heart chakra,

As an infinite wise guide that you can lean on,

Trust and enjoy life together with.

And this guide,

Your inner beautiful light,

Is steering you to land,

To a beautiful shore where you can easily walk up on,

Maybe you see it as a beach or a harbour or rocks,

Let whatever comes to you be the right thing at this moment.

And right now this is the perfect place for you to rest,

To take in where you are in life,

Who you are and just accept this beautiful being that you are,

Feel it in your whole body,

Accept it in your mind.

And allow yourself to feel this beautiful universal love that is moving through you,

Through your heart chakra and out into your body,

Allow yourself to feel it for yourself,

With total acceptance and love.

Without judgement or control it is just a beautiful flow of energy,

Of yourself.

Now we take a deep breath and if you like you can set your intention to keep this going,

Throughout your day,

Your week,

Your month and you can come back and reconnect as often as you like.

And we start to move back into our body,

Into the place where you started and we give thanks to Mother Earth and for the Universe and the higher self for joining us today and you can start to come fully back into your body,

Start to move your hands,

Your feet,

Your neck,

Maybe clap your hands and stamp your feet and I thank you for listening.

Sat Naam.

So warm welcome back from that,

Yeah I would say both relaxing,

Igniting and uplifting in a journey.

I had such a beautiful vision of us standing up there on this beautiful cliff and it wasn't a storm around us but it was like this,

Yeah very windy,

But in a way a soft nice wind and as always if you fall asleep,

If you think about something else or if you don't get any pictures or anything it's totally fine because just by you being here listening to this your energy is doing the work for you so the words are more for our mind to have something to lean into and also to get a little bit of inclination of what the energy is up to.

And so today I felt it was about first to clear our thoughts,

Our emotions or first of all we ground it with Earth and then we cleared and then it was this beautiful ignition of our hearts to trust all that comes when we are clearing our emotions,

When we are clearing our mind.

It's almost like we start at the new platform and that can sometimes feel,

It can feel scary,

It can feel exciting but it can also feel confusing so it's like we really don't know which way to turn because we are so used to doing certain things or thinking in a certain way and suddenly we start to have new emotions,

We have new ideas or new things that excites us or where we want to go or do and that can be sometimes very confusing because we don't recognize ourself.

Now that we are shifting into this beautiful energy that is here there will be moments of confusion but if we allow ourselves to just lean back into our beautiful truly infinite wise hearts that are guiding us then it will take us to our spot where we can relax and flow with the current of life.

So I felt it was a truly beautiful energy that we tapped into both in the ways of clearing but also accepting ourselves,

Accepting our light,

Our connection with the universe and trust it to guide us.

So I'm really excited to see how this will show up and if you followed me before you know that sometimes the transformation comes quick and sometimes it might take a bit longer time but that's why I also always encourage you to write down any insights or your journey after this because then that gives your mind something to,

It's like an evidence for your mind that okay yeah we did that and then it maybe is visible or noticeable in six months time and then it's really good to have this evidence in a way that that was what we were working then with then and now it's actually happened.

So if you had anything like this then please write it down and if you have any questions,

Comments or you want to share your journey then please go ahead and you can do it publicly or you can send me a DM.

And I also hope that you enjoyed today's talk with Anitta Chalamot.

I know I did and what a power woman.

She is so creative and so filled with passion.

I love,

Really love talking to her and hear her story how she,

Even if she struggled on the way,

It felt like this current is moving her,

Current of life is moving her and she is open to it.

And sure we take detours on our way at times and we do things that maybe we shouldn't or that is not always healthy for the body but when we get back into it,

When we get back into the flow of life guided from the heart then that is also a wisdom and like she is doing sharing her wisdom and helping others who are stuck.

So beautiful and I'm really happy to be able to share our talk with you all.

So I thank you for listening and have a beautiful time until the next time.

Sat Nam.

You have been listening to Meditation Jam with Marisa Rinne and I am so grateful that you have joined today with your energy.

If you liked it,

Please remember to subscribe,

Hit the like button and leave a review if there was something specific that you enjoyed and you will find more links in the text below from my guests and also to my social media if you like to follow me there.

So thank you again for joining and I hope you have a beautiful day,

Week and month.

Sat Nam.