The Hardest Part Of Healing: Saying No To Toxic People

Saying NO is the turning point in recovery from codependency, narcissistic abuse, and childhood trauma. But for adult children of alcoholics and trauma survivors, it can feel terrifying—like you’re choosing rejection or abandonment.

In this episode, we’ll explore why the first boundary is always the hardest, and why it’s also the most powerful step toward freedom.

You’ll discover: Why your brain links “no” with danger and rejection, how childhood programming makes boundaries feel unsafe, why toxic people push back when you finally walk away, and how saying no rewires your brain for self-love and peace.

If guilt, fear, or self-doubt rise up when you try to protect your peace, this episode will remind you: you’re not broken—your brain is coded to expect pain. And with awareness, you can rewrite that code.

Transcript

Welcome to Breakdown to Breakthrough,

The podcast that empowers you to transform your life by awakening to your true,

Authentic self.

I'm Lisa A.

Romano,

Your host.

As an award-winning author and certified life coach,

I've dedicated my life to helping others understand the incredible power of an organized mind.

I believe that true empowerment begins with awakening to our false self.

My mission is to support you on your journey toward mental and emotional regeneration through conscious and deliberate awakening.

In this podcast,

I'll share insights,

Tools,

And transformative stories that illuminate the path to healing and self-discovery.

Today,

I want to talk about and encourage you to understand the legs of the journey that you are on when you start healing from codependency,

When you start saying no to toxic people in your life,

When you start addressing the fear and the abandonment that comes up,

When you start to notice that you're being disrespected by a friend group,

Or you're being disrespected by people in your family.

You know,

They're needling you,

The passive aggressive comments.

You're in a group chat on Instagram and you see family members getting together,

But you were never invited.

This idea that social media can be weaponized,

Or you go on Facebook and you see your friend group and they're all hanging out,

But you just mysteriously never got invited.

And this is a pattern.

This is a habitual perpetual pattern.

It's happened over time.

This is not a one-time event that you're reacting to.

You're starting to wake up.

And when you start to wake up from codependency,

From emotional neglect,

Which causes stress for a child.

And now that downloads the subconscious mind,

Let me get my,

Uh,

At the head to explain my new best friend.

So when you have trauma in childhood,

You get downloaded the amygdala and the hippocampus.

I do have another diagram that is even more,

Will outline this even more profoundly to help you understand that everything that you see goes right into the amygdala,

Goes right into the limbic system,

Everything that you hear,

Everything that you smell gets downloaded into the survival brain.

And so you are literally coded to fear saying no,

Why?

Because as a child,

When you were treated poorly,

You associated pain with confronting those emotions.

So below the veil of consciousness,

You associate safety with tolerating BS.

I'll say that again.

You below the veil of consciousness have been programmed and coded literally in the subconscious mind to tolerate BS.

Now there's denial.

I don't really feel that my friends are great.

I don't really,

No,

No,

No.

My sister,

My brother.

They're awesome.

No,

No,

No.

My mother really isn't this person.

No,

No,

No.

My dad isn't really problematic or he doesn't make promises and never fulfill them.

No,

No,

No.

He's just,

That's just his way.

So we have been taught since childhood to disown what we feel and to distort reality.

And we distort reality because the brain prefers that we have a pseudo sense of safety.

It prefers the familiar,

Even if it's not good for us,

Why?

Because the familiar is something that I can predict.

So if my mom makes me a promise and she never fulfills that promise,

Then I never confront that because I don't know what's going to happen when I confront that.

And the brain doesn't like that.

The amygdala and Harry,

The hippocampus,

Amy,

The amygdala,

Harry,

The hippocampus,

Lenny,

The limbic system.

They don't like that.

The brain itself below the veil of consciousness in its brainwashing state is nothing but a prediction machine and you will not awaken and you will not transform your life until you start to understand that this is the way the brain works and you start operating from outside of the brain through consciousness,

Which can be taught,

But that takes time.

Listening to a bunch of podcasts,

Even reading a bunch of books is not going to reprogram you.

You will have moments of inspiration that last a day or two,

But unless you actually break the pattern,

You interrupt the predictive codes that your brain is relying on because it's always going to drag you back into the familiar.

So your dad was an alcoholic.

You become an alcoholic.

You marry an alcoholic.

Your children are alcoholics.

Now your children are drinking around their children.

They're smoking weed openly.

They're in doing recreational drugs,

Recreational drugs,

Hello.

They're doing drugs that actually damage the brain.

So you just see this generational path.

And until you interrupt the patterns at the subconscious level,

Which can only be done through awareness,

Through an elevation of consciousness,

Which is the foundation of my work.

It's not you,

It's your programming.

That's the first space that people usually notice when they start following my work.

It's like,

Wait a minute.

I'm not my thinking.

No,

Wait,

I'm not my feelings.

I'm not that reactive maniac who cries over spilt milk.

It's all reactive behavior.

That means it's all habitual and it's happening to you outside of your conscious awareness of it.

And your empowerment comes through doing this type of work and understanding the process of metacognition operating from the prefrontal lobe and the neocortex,

Healing the corpus callosum with self-compassion,

Bringing oxytocin back into the brain system versus living on stress and cortisol.

And what's going to happen next?

And what if this happens?

The worst thing that you can do for your brain.

And it is through this acknowledgement and through this work that you gain control over what's happening in the subconscious mind where you can actually change what has been coded.

It's absolutely fabulous.

This has changed my life.

I used to wake up and dread every day.

Every moment was dread.

Every moment was dread.

But I didn't know that I was operating from programming.

I didn't know that I was operating from fear.

And I didn't know that the fear of abandonment,

The fear of rejection,

Which was all tied to shame and feelings of not feeling good enough,

Were the reason I couldn't say adios to friends that I no longer jived with.

It was the reason that I said,

Oh no,

I really don't feel that about her.

I really don't feel that about him.

No,

It's okay that they said that.

It's okay.

Walking on eggshells,

Walking on eggshells and never really owning,

Oh my God,

I can't believe that she just said that or I just can't,

I can't believe that was her reaction or I can't believe he did that.

I can't believe they embarrassed me that way.

I was never able to do that until about,

I would say 20 years ago,

I'm 60 now.

So like 40 years,

Even a little bit into my forties,

I was so afraid to confront and not only confront people more than confronting people that came easy.

Once I was able to confront myself like Lisa,

This is really how you feel.

This is really how you feel.

This is really bothering you and you can dance around it and you can pretend,

But these relationships and this behavior,

It's weighing your wings down,

Mama.

And so I wanted to just create a quick session to help everybody understand that the journey gets easier,

But the initial break is the hardest part.

The initial walking away from that toxic relationship,

The initial,

I'm not answering that text.

The initial not reacting to the face,

What's happening on Facebook.

The initial,

I'm not reacting to what's happening on Instagram.

The initial,

I think I have to block this person because their texts are abusive or I just feel like they're passive aggressive.

They're blame shifting.

They're only coming through their narrative.

Like there is,

I am not even,

I'm not even a guest at the table.

It is just purely their reality.

It has been narrated to prove their point.

When you're dealing with highly narcissistic people,

I think it's so much easier to see it in someone who's an overt narcissist.

You'll see their arrogance.

You'll,

You'll see that they think they're better than everybody.

You'll see so much more easily that they care way too much about what people think about them and their looks.

If it's a female,

She'll lose,

Use a lot of her sexuality against other women,

Against men to manipulate them.

And with an overt male narcissist,

They'll use their money and their power and their prestige.

Like I'm better than you.

Look at the car I drive.

Look at my education like that.

But when it's a covert,

Vulnerable narcissist,

You get hit with poor me.

You get hit with,

Look what you did to me.

And even though they could be the perpetrator,

They'll,

They'll package it up in like some sweet,

Sweet little bow.

And it's like putting sugar on crap.

It's like,

Wait,

Something smells,

But it looks like sugar.

It,

That's what they're doing.

So they did this thing.

They moved the cheese.

You react,

But we're going to,

We're going to focus on your reaction.

And they're very interesting people.

And I think they're harder to flush out than the overt narcissist.

Although depending on how long you've been with an overt narcissist,

Who has really got you in their spell,

You could be so beaten down mentally and emotionally,

And then give up your job,

Give up your career and have them adopt your kids or have her adopt your kids.

And now you're financially dependent upon them.

Then they moved to a different state or a different country.

They've isolated you over the time.

So it could really be hard to like,

Okay,

This is what I'm dealing with.

What am I going to do now?

That's when a lot of people just say,

Oh,

I'll just wait till the kids grow up and,

And they fly the coop and life just gets worse in my opinion.

But that's kind of like a scenario.

But when you're dealing with a vulnerable narcissist,

Sometimes they're sickly.

They take no accountability for their blood pressure or their high A1C or the ulcers in their legs or how they're getting sick.

No,

It's nothing is their fault.

There's an excuse for why they don't take accountability for their health.

So you should just take care of them and you should just listen to them moan and groan.

No accountability.

And I'm not talking about people that have legitimate issues with their health and are like doing their best to manage that.

I'm talking about the personality type that is so covert and so manipulative,

And it's built on vulnerable narcissism where they are always the victim.

So no matter what happens in their environment,

They perceive through their lens,

Abandonment.

They perceive rejection.

They perceive you're slighting them,

Even if you're not right.

So how does that happen?

Because below the veil of consciousness,

Below the veil of consciousness,

What you see in your memory bank is what you project out into the world.

And you lack self-awareness when you're a narcissist.

And so pulling away from that type of a person is so difficult in the beginning because you will be hit with,

It's you.

It's you.

And healthy people question,

Is it me?

Narcissists don't question,

Is it me?

If they do,

It's like a second.

It's like,

No,

It can't be me.

It has to be them.

And then the interesting thing about the brain,

If you really study human behavior and human psychology,

Ego defense mechanisms,

Which I wish narcissists would do because that actually might help them.

If you really get into the nitty gritty of personality types,

What you will notice is that what a narcissist does,

What their brain does,

Happens to everybody.

But with narcissists,

Once you know what you're dealing with,

It's really easy to see.

It's like,

Okay,

So they decided that I was wrong because they have to be right because they're the victim.

So that's narcissistic supply.

Right.

So they're locked in the chamber of the limbic system.

And so now in the limbic system,

Think about,

You know,

The,

You know,

Edward,

Well,

Let's say let's,

Um,

Let's Igor,

Igor,

The ego,

Right?

Igor,

The ego,

Igor,

The ego.

Once you make a decision that that person's wrong,

Comes up with a hundred reasons why that person's wrong.

And you will not be able to talk ego,

Igor,

The ego out of it.

And so you're even,

You're not even in,

Uh,

Igor's reality.

You're not even in their aura.

You're wrong.

You're outside of there.

It's an illusion to think that you're actually having a conversation with somebody who is like paranoid or so insecure and so defensive that they have to make everybody wrong so that they can be right.

So they never have to go into the chamber of self-awareness and actually heal.

They're trying,

They are actually avoiding healing,

Which is sad,

But the problem is that they leave bodies and carcasses in their,

In their wake and narcissists tend to get worse as they get older and their health tends to get worse.

And then that just gives into them feeling sorrier for themselves and more angry that you're just not catching,

You're just not giving them a break.

You're just not saying,

Okay,

Very sad.

So yes,

Breaking the initial break from a vulnerable narcissist or even an overt narcissist is going to be the hardest part of this journey,

Especially if you,

You are a codependent person where you have been coded to people,

Please.

You've been in slave master relationships your whole life,

Your friend group,

You were like the peon,

Like you were the person that they,

They,

They could needle and stuff.

And you didn't defend yourself.

You're like,

But you're saying,

And you seem agreeable because you don't know how to confront the fear of,

Well,

If I say something,

I might lose this group.

And then what,

What I've learned is like eventually over time.

And again,

I'm 60.

It's taken me a long time to get there.

Hopefully many of you are a lot younger than I am.

And you're learning from the mistakes that I've made and other mentors of yours have made.

Hopefully you're learning,

You're putting this into action.

And I do believe that this is how we push human consciousness forward.

We share what we learn.

And hopefully there's someone out there who is wise enough to say,

You know what,

That person's already made that mistake.

I'm going to listen to them and put that into action.

That is going to empower you.

You will be unstoppable.

Mark my word.

And so what we want to understand is that when we confront how we feel,

When we go into the chamber and I'm holding up a diagram,

Those of you who are listening on,

Uh,

The podcast,

I'm holding up a chart,

A beautiful chart of the brain that I ordered actually on Amazon.

And if you,

It's just incredible when you think about the,

The,

This diagram,

Because the blue rec represents the hippocampus.

It's a big,

Big area.

And what I find super interesting that a lot of people don't talk about,

But we should is this,

The,

This is the olfactory bulb,

Right?

Like,

So this is,

This is the,

Um,

The nose.

So this is where your,

Your sense of smell is going directly into the brain,

Right?

So here is the,

Let me see,

This is the HPA access,

Right?

So HPA access where,

Where we store and process trauma,

This is,

This is considered the limbic system from here down.

I mean,

Look how big the limbic system is,

Right?

And what,

What we're doing essentially on the healing journey is we are moving up and out of the limbic system through metacognition.

How do you do that through meditation and neuroscience back journaling prompts?

At least that's my method.

And we activate the prefrontal lobe.

And when we activate the prefrontal lobe,

We're thinking about the decisions that we make.

And in this space,

We're able to override Amy,

The amygdala and ego,

Igor,

The ego and Harry,

The hippocampus.

We're able to override that.

And the neocortex very,

Very important in decision-making.

And so this is where we develop the tolerance to withstand the initial break.

Like I remember when I was going through this recovery work and I was like finally accepting that my mother was really cruel to me.

I didn't care anymore whether or not my sister saw it,

My brother saw it,

My father saw it.

She's cruel to me.

Like she goes out of her way to embarrass me.

She goes out of her way to withhold love.

She's got her nose up.

It's like,

How much BS can I,

Can,

Can Lisa tolerate from me?

How much rejection and stonewalling and gaslighting and pushing her away and just complete rejection.

How much can she tolerate before she snaps?

And when I was going through my divorce and I saw that my parents were siding with my ex and I was a single mom with no job and three kids.

And my ex told me he was going to lie about how much money he made.

And I got very little child support.

I got no alimony and I was entitled to it.

I walked away from his annuity.

I walked away from his pension.

Like I was like,

I'll chew my arm off to get away from you just so I can start over.

Like it was that bad.

And when I saw that they were like sticking their noses up at me and they were like judging me,

I thought,

Wow,

I don't have a family.

And so at that time it was so hard as a single mom to like find a house and get the house,

You know,

These,

My poor kids,

What they went through,

You know,

The three little babies and I was trying to make it,

Trying to,

You know,

Make a divorce as easy as possible for them.

But I was terrified.

And one of the best compliments I've ever gotten was my middle daughter said,

Mom,

I felt like my childhood started when we moved into that little house.

I was like,

Whew,

Like,

Really?

Like,

Wow.

Like,

I'm so grateful that that's,

That was your experience because I was dying on the inside.

Again,

Those of you who are listening via podcast,

I want you to imagine that I have three circles.

I've,

My husband actually glued three circles together for me to,

To help represent what it is I'm trying to share.

So when you're,

When you're,

Um,

Young and you,

You don't understand what's really going on in your life and you come from a dysfunctional family,

Imagine you have three circles and it's a small circle,

A middle circle,

And a larger circle,

And they're all connected at the bottom.

And when you are below the veil of consciousness,

You know,

Everybody's in your,

Everybody's in your middle circle.

But as you grow up,

What ends up happening,

You start to move people out of that original circle.

And then if they're,

If they don't change and they're,

You're,

You're not happy with the relationship and they are bringing you down,

Then you move them out to the wider circle.

And if this is person,

This person is still bad for your mental health,

You move them out of your atmosphere.

It happens in steps,

But this initial,

I want everybody to understand that this initial,

Like pushing them out of that first circle that let's say your electromagnetic field goes out eight to 10 feet from your heart.

When you're doing this work,

It's like,

You've got to respect the fact that you've got to get these people at least 10 feet energetically from you.

And that happens first in your mind,

That initial break is the hardest because that's when Igor,

Your ego is going to be screaming.

And Amy,

The amygdala is going to be screaming and Harry,

The hippocampus is going to be come back.

Don't,

Don't set a boundary.

You need them.

You're nothing without them.

All of your false codes are going to get activated.

But if you stick with this,

It is my promise to you,

Because I've been through this process so many times,

It gets so much easier.

And the other thing to think about is that think about toxic people as like cement and you're a butterfly and your consciousness is made to fly.

And for every toxic friend,

For every toxic family member,

For every toxic thing that you watch on Instagram,

For every toxic YouTube video,

For every toxic show,

Every toxic parent,

Every toxic conversation that you have is like a little bit of cement on your butterfly wings.

And it's up to you to use your consciousness to flick these pieces of cement off of you.

And I promise you,

I just had this conversation with my son this morning,

As a matter of fact,

I promise you that as you do this,

And as you get better at flicking these people,

Like these flies off your wings,

I promise you within 24,

48 hours,

72 hours tops,

The universe will deliver you evidence of your newfound being,

Your newfound sense of self-respect.

It's a different frequency.

It's self-love.

It's accountability.

It's saying,

I matter.

You're recoding your subconscious mind when you say,

I don't have to tolerate that.

I am enough.

And within 72 hours tops,

You're going to start to see evidence of that.

Now quantify that.

Imagine every day,

That's your new reality.

Every day,

You're confronting something in your mind.

Every day,

You're tolerating a little bit less and you're becoming a little bit more accountable for your inner child.

Every day,

You're becoming a little bit more aware of self-respect and what it feels like to have self-confidence.

And what happens is as you change your frequency and to all those that say,

Oh,

You know,

Lisa's ruining it by introducing law of attraction.

I'm not introducing the law of attraction per se.

I'm introducing groundbreaking quantum mechanics and neuroscience,

Which go hand in hand.

There is no such thing as separation.

So anybody who is uncomfortable with that,

I'm sorry that you feel that way,

But this is actually quantum science and it's proven.

The double slit experiment proves that by observing nature,

We change it.

And so as you begin to observe yourself in a different way,

You're going to start to see what happens in your field change.

People will treat you differently.

New opportunities will come.

Just give it a try.

So if you're new to going no contact,

If you're new to setting a boundary,

I promise you that in the beginning,

It's the hardest,

But it will get easier.

Just don't quit.

Namaste,

Everybody.

Bye everybody.

Until next time,

You're enough.

Reviews

thank you for touching on this topic of saying no to toxic people and I especially appreciate that you mentioned people that make everything about them .

Strongly resonating. 🙏🏽

This describes my life exactly before going no contact 3 years ago, thanks to my therapist, with my covert, poor me, verbally abusive, narcissist mother, & overt narcissist sister. Making the initial cut from them was so hard, but life now is so peaceful. Thank you, Lisa. This explained so much that I needed to hear.

There were a lot of gems here. One thing that really stood out for me was the explanations of behavior as they relate to obvious vs. more subtle narcissistic behaviors. It made me feel like I had something I could play for friends/family that help establish I’m not some ”hateful, ungrateful son.” After a lot of work I’m secure enough in who I am and my self worth for it to have little impact if they *never* see it. Still, it’s empowering to have an awareness that someone “gets it” and in a certain context is “in your corner.”

I also appreciated that some of Lisa’s details mirror mine and it feels fulfilling to be able to know that I’m not so isolated.

Thank you again for this and all of your work. It really feels quite miraculous in its own way.

Thank you once again 🦋