S2E1 menoPAUSE podcast: Real, Raw Stories Of Midlife

Deep in the Darkness: My Mental Health WHY behind Season 2

A super personal story behind this tweak in direction and how I found myself way down deep in the darkness of a mental health hole recently. Powerful conversation around emotional and mental maintenance, and the one key question my psychologist asked me in our latest session, which has changed the way I will look at my mental health from now on.

How to understand when and how to get support if you find yourself on a slippery slope regarding mental health. I ask you “R U Ok?” And my invitation to really, truly sit with the answer and not suffer in silence off you need help too. How we can all step up and play an active role in checking in on the midlife women we are connected to - to make sure that they are ok too, and if not how to make a plan to get the right support in place.

Transcript

Yeah,

I've got my socks on.

I'm just going to get a blanket.

It's dark.

Yeah,

It's um,

This is I was up at six yesterday doing an interview with someone in Massachusetts.

And I was like,

Wow,

I'm gonna start my day when it's dark.

And then you know,

It's like beautiful sun,

Sun because it's what time is it there?

Like two or three?

Yeah,

So it's not.

Yeah,

It was four for her.

And she had these beautiful green trees straight outside of her window and everything.

And I'm just like,

Honestly,

There is no leaves on any of our deciduous trees,

And it's cold.

So I would not be surprised if we get no Australians.

So I was like,

Oh,

Well,

She and I will have a good catch up.

Sorry,

Did I start that?

Yes,

I did.

So I should say this is the final sharing cycle for the coming home collective June of 2023.

How is it nine months since we started?

I can't believe that.

I was looking back at all the different themes and everything.

It's been a lot.

And I reckon the reason I was going to ask you about your sabbatical was I reckon it was maybe a little bit before the coming home collective that you decided that you're going to take the time out and yeah,

Do you feel any different nervous system wise?

Like,

I guess you've had a pretty full schedule since you stopped.

It's been pretty full on since I started.

And I think I was imagining this time off as being a time for me to figure out what I'm doing.

What you want to do.

Yeah.

And that's a feeling now.

I let go of that.

Okay.

Because for a couple of reasons.

Number one is I'm that will detract from actually having time off.

Yes.

Because that is like thinking about work,

Being attached to work and that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

Doesn't let me actually just it looks like goal at the end.

Yeah.

This time where I just need to enjoy having the time off.

Yeah.

It was so nice to be able to go out of the country for a couple of weeks.

Yeah.

Anybody do right up until the time.

Yeah.

Not have anybody do after that home.

Like not feeling like you're being squished between two impending babies.

Yeah.

And now that I'm gonna go help my mom,

It's the same situation.

You know,

Luckily,

Her health situation happened during the time.

Yeah,

Yeah.

It's gonna be a time for something to happen happens during the time that I actually have this big stretch of time off.

Yeah.

We have to rearrange things for any clients.

And I'm looking forward to August and September with having minimal,

You know,

I might go see my dad,

But that's gonna not be for very long.

Yes.

So not to really have any more big planned.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Events are time away.

And,

And the other half of me just enjoying this time off is the thing with midwifery is people.

This is a rolling there's no the only container around the relationship is when they start care and six weeks postpartum.

Yep.

And so it's like continually in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I have between six and eight clients.

Yeah.

It's a lot from the end of October until the middle of February.

Oh,

Sorry.

That's what that was my next question.

So that load,

Because when I think last time we spoke in one of these calls,

You were thinking about like,

Maybe half or maybe inserting some space,

Like,

But you weren't clear on how that would work.

So is six to eight.

That's not a normal load.

Well,

It is.

They're just bunched up together because that's how this works.

I want two clients a month,

But I can't pick their names.

No,

No,

No.

Babies are due when the babies are due.

Yeah.

I have like a little clump at the end of end of October,

Beginning of November.

Yeah.

And I have another like one person to do at the end of November,

And then I'm not going to take anybody for December,

December.

Okay.

And then January,

I have a couple people do in the beginning of the month.

And then a few people do at the end of the month.

Okay.

So there's some spacing and I'm going,

Well,

I will probably want to take March off.

I might just plan to not.

That's what I'm missing.

Yeah.

Like October,

November,

December of January,

February,

March off.

Like maybe that's the flow.

Yeah.

I might just say,

You know,

I've had enough intensity for this.

Yes.

I'm going to take any clients who are due in this,

You know,

Four week period of time.

So I think part of the work that we've been doing here is helping me feel number one,

Like really much more cognizant of my needs around that.

Yeah.

And just,

And empowered just to do it.

Yeah.

You know,

Like just to say,

Okay,

These are my needs.

Okay.

I recognize my needs.

Can I,

Yeah.

What am I going to do?

It's kind of like,

It's a,

It's a funny thing,

Isn't it?

I feel like there's a thread of all these different conversations I'm having,

Like on the podcast in coaching containers here about,

It's like not only recognizing that that's my need,

But then actually going,

Oh,

I actually can give myself permission to fulfill that.

And it seems so I would,

I had a session with my psychologist yesterday and I was saying to her,

Like,

I've just exited out of a mastermind and someone doing a website just because in the end,

Like what I thought that it would feel like and be like was different.

And so I was like,

I've recognized my need,

Which is not to be in these,

You know,

Containers,

Want to have a better word.

And I think that's where I would stop.

Previously be like,

That's my need.

And then I'd feel like kind of resentful because I'm in something that I don't want to be in.

And this time I was just like,

Or you could take the next step and actually do something about it.

Having conversations,

Difficult conversations,

Admittedly.

And they've all just unraveled quite easily.

So all of the kind of resistance that I used to put in,

I can't do that to someone else.

Or I'm,

You know,

Like I can't not,

Not take people in December.

Hey,

You can,

It's up to you.

Like,

You know,

Like,

Like we are the ones that set the boundary,

But it's,

It's such a funny thing when you actually like realize that you can actually,

I can have the need and then I can do something about it.

Crazy,

Crazy,

Crazy.

Yeah.

It is.

It feels like a,

Like a,

A big,

Yeah,

But why?

I don't know.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Oh,

I'm just going to say that I think that it does kind of,

It ties into that whole conversation around the good girl and how like,

Yes,

That can be around,

You know,

Whether it's people pleasing or,

Or just feeling like,

Because this is your job or because you,

You made an agreement or whatever it is that you need,

That you need to fulfill it.

And on some level we all have to,

We all have to do that to some extent,

Right?

Otherwise we,

It's just,

It is anarchy.

Yeah.

There is no,

Yeah.

And there's no integrity in saying you'll do something and then things fall apart,

But it's something,

You know,

If,

If we can either be proactive about it or it's kind of a,

Like in some ways,

Little consequence,

But we're like the staying with the program that you're not really enjoying,

Like that's just for you.

Right.

Yeah.

That's just for you or me saying,

I'm not going to take clients during this month.

There are other care providers.

I'm not the only one.

Exactly.

And even if you were,

It's still not your responsibility.

This is the thing I was having a call.

I was on in someone else's coaching program last night,

Which is a nutritionist.

And I had a,

Like a guest call and we were,

This lady was saying,

You know,

My husband travels for work.

Um,

I'm,

I'm the,

You know,

The go-to parent when he's away,

Like he can be away for six weeks at the drop of a hat because he's a military.

And,

You know,

I just pick up the pieces and then I end up taking everybody else's kids everywhere.

And I was like,

Whoa,

Whoa,

Hang on a minute.

Let's just back up,

Just back up a bit.

So you're saying to me,

You are desperately unable to hold,

Like you've,

You've got this huge weight of obligation that you're trying to hold.

And you're already struggling with that with your own family.

Talk to me more about the decision to actually be the one that picks up all the other kids.

And it was the good girl,

Good girl all over again.

And in her head,

She was ranking against the other parents.

Like some,

Someone else was,

Uh,

Um,

Someone else's,

What was the parent that keeps or had asked her most recently to do something for their kids.

He was a surgeon.

So therefore in her mind,

He's more important than her.

And I'm like,

But you didn't decide to have the child.

That child is not your responsibility.

And I'm like,

Well,

I'm not going to have the child.

That child is not your responsibility.

And if you were able to offer that service and do it from a place of generosity and not through costing yourself and not through obligation,

Happy days,

Give generously.

That's a beautiful place to be.

But if you can't don't,

Cause it's really,

It's disrespectful to ourselves,

But it's also disrespectful to the other people.

Cause there's this like pissiness that happens or resentment or that real keeping that starts to happen.

We do,

We can't help not do sometimes as nice,

You know,

And,

And generous as we are sometimes that does creep in when we start doing things out of obligation.

Like,

Yeah,

I'm always the one that does this.

Yeah.

I'm always the one that does this.

I've got to do this.

I'm I'm a,

Yeah,

I have been in my early years,

A shocker for going,

Oh,

You expect me?

It's like,

No,

No,

No one else is doing this.

You are choosing this pattern of behavior,

Which is,

You know,

Like we've talked about before,

Like that caretaker type of like,

It's a good girl,

But it's also the good girl that's crossed with the,

Like,

I'm responsible for everybody else.

And it's like,

Yeah,

Well,

How's that working for you?

But also you sticking your beak in everyone else's business is just saving,

Saving or numbing you from looking at your own,

You know,

Let's be honest about where the pattern comes from.

Oh,

That hurts.

Being the manager is being good.

Right.

But yeah,

I feel like,

I was going to say to you before,

Do you feel like the change is just an age thing or like,

What's the,

Because I was trying to reflect myself on why all of a sudden is this possible?

Some of it.

Yeah.

Some of it is the age thing.

Like it is,

It is interesting having gone through menopause and not having the,

Like the hormonal aspects,

You know,

Like the hooks that are related to just the hormone changes throughout the month.

Now that things are like pretty flat and steady,

It is a little bit,

It feels good because I'm like,

Oh,

Thank God I don't have to deal with the ups and downs that I have.

But on the other hand,

It's kind of also kind of like,

This is kind of flat.

Should I be worried?

Like,

Am I depressed?

You know,

Or like that.

Yeah.

So that kind of comes in.

So,

So age and not having the bandwidth.

That's what I reckon is the biggest.

Yeah.

Not having the bandwidth for,

For as much as I was able,

I can hold a lot,

But I'm just not able to hold as much as I was before.

Me neither.

And that is,

You know,

And that has made me wonder a little bit about depression.

Yeah.

But I think that that's normal.

And I think we need,

We do need to normalize that.

Like,

That's supposed to happen as we get older,

You know,

And we all have like our own personal capacity,

Our own bandwidth,

Which we often run roughshod over.

Yes.

Because that's what's required of us.

And I know I was doing that throughout my midwifery career and raising kids at the same time and homeschooling.

And I,

And I see midwifery students doing the same thing that I do.

And they're like,

I hate all of this.

I'm like,

Well,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It sucks.

It's a lot to carry.

Because you took on too much.

So then you get to decide.

And I think now that I'm,

Now that I'm older,

Or now that I hit the wall of that,

Like serious burnout.

Yes.

Because I've been in burnout before and just powered through it.

Yeah,

You know?

Yeah,

I'll do the right thing.

I'll look after myself.

I'll go to a naturopath.

I'll get the herbs.

I'll try and get more than six hours sleep.

Yeah.

And,

And then just kind of hitting the wall of like the panic,

Having never,

Well,

I've had panic attacks in the past,

But never around work.

Yeah.

When I started having panic attacks,

I was like,

All right.

Yeah.

This is the arena that I usually feel really stable and grounded in.

So yeah.

That was the time.

And I think,

I think the change happened when I realized that,

That it's just not worth it.

It's just not worth it.

This is what I was talking about last night.

It's like,

Are you willing to pay the cost?

And when you're younger,

We,

I think one of the hilarious things about being youthful is you think that you are,

You know,

Absolutely not vulnerable to anything.

And I think probably similar to what you sound like you were like the energy that we had was quite a lot.

So you could hold a lot.

And so,

Because you could,

You did,

You spent,

Spent,

Spent,

Spent,

And now we get to this age and we're like,

Oh,

I actually may have overspent.

Like I've,

I've been,

You know,

It's been outward,

Outward,

Outward.

And then,

Yeah,

We've come to a time when we don't have the same bandwidth.

And I think that's a really big blessing because it,

It,

It,

It forces you to be discerning about,

Am I willing to spend my resource on this?

Because I know my resources are at the moment.

And what I hear too,

A lot of the people that I interview on the podcast in their like sixties and seventies.

So they're well past menopause.

So they've been kind of,

Oh,

We passed menopause at least five,

Six,

Seven years.

They start saying things like,

You know,

It's so good on the other side,

But a couple have said to me,

It feels like,

Like you sort of said,

Like,

Kind of like flat and it's unusual not to have so much role in your kind of emotional baseline kind of thing.

But one lady,

I just interviewed Deb Benfield,

She's beautiful.

She's she's a dietician,

But she,

She works a lot with women in middle life and beyond that have had eating disorders that have come back when their bodies have started.

Yeah.

Changing and pairing menopause,

Very common.

I didn't realize until I spoke to her,

But she was saying she felt like there was less emotional kind of role,

But then slowly on the other side,

Her energy started to come back almost like that,

Almost like the spring sort of thing.

So we,

You know,

Autumn's a pairing menopause menopause is that winter season.

And there is a period of quite bleak,

Bleak.

Like I love,

I love winter sun.

No,

No,

But you know what I mean?

Like,

Like,

It's not the right word.

Like,

You know,

It's very,

There's a,

It's a blank canvas.

It kind of feels like it's like,

Okay,

We've got all the leaves off the trees.

We've stopped all the shit that we shouldn't be doing to ourselves.

Now there's like a pause,

But she,

Yeah,

She used the word the spring.

And I know that,

That,

That is,

You know,

In the menstruality circles,

That's like very,

You know,

The second spring kind of concept and traditional Chinese medicine.

So I'm like,

Okay,

I'm done with that.

Yeah.

And I'll,

I'll just trust that it'll,

You know,

Happen at some point.

But I think that really,

And this might be a reason why,

You know,

When we get,

When we get to this point in our lives,

That so many things sort of break down,

You know,

That is actually a natural shedding.

Definitely.

Yeah.

You get to sort of like that flat blank or near,

Near to that flat canvas,

You can kind of see it.

Yeah.

You're on the horizon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What is very new?

Yeah.

It's very new.

And I think in our conversation that we had on the podcast,

It feels a lot like adolescence.

It does.

So I've been thinking a lot about that.

It's such a near experience.

It's just the other side of it.

Yeah.

It's the flip side of it.

Exactly.

The hormones are going,

Going,

Yeah.

My cat just jumped up on the windowsill.

It's like,

Well,

You're out in the gold.

Yeah.

I've been thinking a lot about that.

Is that that transition of like feeling back into when,

Like just before you got your first period and stuff where things felt very newly all up and down emotionally.

And we're just talking about the other side of it.

And it's like,

Ah,

So it was discombobulating going into it.

And it's also a bit discombobulating going out of it,

But we do get used to it.

And I still,

Like we talked about in that conversation,

Like nature does not.

Fuck this up.

Like there is a purpose to everything.

And yeah.

Just thinking about how nature,

Like it's the natural cycle.

Like,

You know,

You have to go through the winter to get the spring.

You have the,

You know,

There's a purpose to everything.

And I think that we're just in that.

Yeah.

The stage where it does feel like to me,

I know,

I know we're in the coming home collective.

It does feel like coming home.

Like I feel more and more like I'm.

Especially the absence of that caretaker,

Good girl,

Or the kind of staying in something because I need to keep everyone happy at the expense of myself and at the expense of like a decent amount of money.

It's like,

Oh,

I don't quite know how to be with this new,

Newfound ease in which I'm setting boundaries,

But it's pretty cool to like,

I feel a lot of the time,

Like I'm watching myself having conversations where the,

You know,

The old version of me,

Who would be the book pleaser is like,

But the new version is just like,

No,

I don't want to do that.

Thank you.

Right.

Right.

And it's interesting to like how,

Well,

For me,

My experience has been kind of unemotional.

It's been.

Yes.

Like it's just sort of like that's the facts.

Like,

And I can't just can't argue with the facts of my feelings of being not interested.

Not interested.

Yeah.

Or don't feel compelled.

Time for that or,

Or being or curating experiences and like a more.

Yeah.

Decisive kind of way and saying,

Instead of saying,

Yeah,

I'll do that.

Even if I'm just sort of like half interested.

Yeah.

You know,

And being a better advocate for myself.

I did that with a program that I was signed up for to take place in the fall.

And I was just like,

I don't want to.

Yeah.

Not going to do that.

I will do this other thing that you've offered.

If that is open because yes.

Better fit for me just energetically.

Yeah.

But I'm not going to do that other thing.

And no,

You can't,

You can't talk.

No,

No,

No,

No.

I know I need you more for that thing than this.

Yes.

But I don't really care about that.

I'm just not doing that thing.

That's exactly this conversation,

Which I had set up,

Like the good girl inside of me had set up this conversation about withdrawing.

Like it was a 12 month mastermind.

Like it's,

You know,

12 months commitment,

But I was just like,

I am not receiving what I thought that I was going to receive.

And that's yeah,

Exactly what you're saying,

Shane,

Unemotional.

And I like,

You know,

The people,

Please,

In me going into that conversation was like,

Oh,

This is going to be difficult.

And she's not,

And she's going to really,

You know,

She'll be like,

This is a contract and none of that happened because I went in so clear.

I was like,

I am not getting the value that I thought that I would,

And that I paid for.

And that is set out in the contract.

So I would like to leave effective today.

And it was just like,

I can see you've made your decision.

And I was like,

What?

This cannot be that easy.

I know.

Well,

And in my situation,

I hesitated to ask to switch until kind of like a deadline.

And then I was like,

Why?

And so I told her,

I said,

I've hesitated to ask about this.

I'm not really sure why I did that.

So here I am asking,

You know,

No worries.

No skin off my nose.

And maybe things are shifting culturally in our spaces,

Too.

I wonder.

Yeah.

Whether that is,

You know,

Especially within the coaching industry.

Yeah.

Generally,

I think everyone is so burnt out on the hard sell and like the neediness that was so prevalent in the beginning.

Oh my God,

Yes.

Thank God.

Yeah.

That we don't I don't want just as you know,

In my business,

I don't want someone coming to me if they don't really resonate with me or,

You know.

That's what I've.

Yeah.

I've started doing the same thing.

Like I'm doing a lot more copywriting because that is just naturally what's happening.

That's unfolding.

But if I have a conversation with copywriting,

I actually set it up like,

Unless you are like a hell yes,

And so am I.

By the time we finish this conversation,

I'll share with you other details of copywriters because I am not interested in working with anyone that is not like I am so excited about doing this,

About what we're going to create together.

Like that's my standard for myself now.

And it feels so much like everything about that feels better.

And I wonder whether that is a that is a natural consequence of kind of this good girl thing of like.

I don't want to do work where I am feeling like I am over delivering or trying to please someone or really striving or struggling to kind of get the standard that this client wants.

I want my work to feel playful and fun and very useful and be like really well received like that's you know,

But I feel like.

I feel like there's a lot of there's a lot of things that the good girl ran in my life that I actually didn't like.

I was very aware that she was there,

But I didn't really understand how many ways that impacted me.

And now when I like this lady last night with the yeah,

The good girl thing,

I'm just like at what cost,

Right at what cost like you get bloody clear on what it's costing you.

And if you're still willing to pay the price,

Good.

That's on you and that's a decision that's conscious.

But if you're unconsciously spreading yourself so thin like we both have making it OK because it's you know,

Pattern or conditional,

Whatever,

Or like I said to her,

You know,

It's hard.

It's hard in someone else's program like and you obviously don't want to go too hard coaching someone like,

You know,

Like,

But my.

Like that internal navigation system that always leads me to a question that I want to ask is wanting to say,

Like,

What makes this your unfamiliar hell,

Your familiar hell?

Like what?

Where did you learn it?

Who showed you that this was the way to mother or woman or whatever?

Like what version of the patriarchy fucked with you basically?

Probably all of it.

Yeah,

Exactly.

But especially we'll think about also the layers of it's not just patriarchy there.

It's like military service and that like,

You know,

That something is always more important than you by definition,

Because that is your role.

You know,

Like that's a big.

And I was like,

Oh,

There's a lot of unpicking I'd like to do there.

Anyway,

It's one of those.

Yeah,

It's the and even so thinking the other day,

There was something else that I did and I was like,

I can't think of it.

Oh,

Just more around.

Yeah.

The interactions with my mom.

It's just like I yeah,

I'm just I feel much clearer about where I'll go up to.

And if I can't do things generously,

Then I'm just not choosing to do them.

Yeah,

Because it costs me too much,

But it also is costing her like I'm you know,

I'm getting more and more clear about the fact that when I go into something with that sense of obligation,

It's not a clean exchange anyway for both people.

So it's like,

You know,

Like you're saying,

Like why,

You know,

The client working with you,

That's not 100% the right fit.

It's not good for them either.

Like,

You know,

It's not good for them.

It's not good for them either.

Like it,

You know,

So yeah,

It's interesting.

How do you do you reckon you're I know your kids is much older than older than mine.

What sort of things do you notice that is shifting in your relationship with them?

Is there anything going on?

Oh,

I'm we don't we don't talk to our boys.

Yeah,

I feel like that about my,

My younger daughter.

I'm like,

Oh,

I see you occasionally when you want me to look after your dog.

But that's bad.

Yeah.

So I mean,

The two older boys are,

You know,

They've been out of the house for a long time.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are you going to see them on the break?

I thought you were going to Washington,

I want to say,

One,

We're hoping the one who lives in Washington will come home.

Oh,

That's cool.

That would be easier.

Yeah,

That would be a lot easier.

Yeah.

The oldest one is in Massachusetts.

I don't know if we're gonna see him.

I've asked,

You know,

Yeah.

If he'll come home that because that would be a lot easier all the way around for lots of reasons to them.

Yeah.

Because their dad would like to,

You know,

Probably like to see his kids to and harder for him to get away.

Yeah.

From work.

But I think with Caleb who's still kind of close by.

I have,

I think I have stepped back even a little bit more than I did with the other two.

Yeah.

Is like trying to figure out his,

His living situation and moving out of his current house at the end of July.

And they need to do all of this complex cleaning.

Yes.

And I offered like said,

Hey,

I'm willing to help you got it.

You know,

I looked because the rental agency sent us the information to and you know,

They had to get on some list for the carpet cleaning and then so very complicated.

We haven't handled mom.

We haven't handled them.

Like,

Okay.

And I haven't asked him again.

Yeah.

He's actually has it handled.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

So I feel like that and,

And his roommates to,

To have handled it.

And I guess if they don't,

You know,

If they need consequences,

I hope that they'll ask for it.

Yeah.

But I'm not going to keep think where when the other boys were around,

I think I would have kept like,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh God.

Yeah.

I used to do that,

Especially with our oldest daughter.

Um,

The younger ones always been super independent and like,

You know,

Never worry about her organizing anything because she organizes us when she's here.

No need then.

But,

Um,

Yeah,

I look back and go,

I really,

Even though I was doing it from care and wanting to help what she was hearing was,

You don't actually trust me to be able to kind of have this covered.

And I'm like,

Oh God,

That's the last thing I want you to think that I think of you because I actually do trust you,

But my actions are not showing that.

So,

But now I feel like I've gone so far in the opposite direction and I'm like,

Yeah,

Okay.

And I'm kind of,

I'm like,

So it's almost like,

Actually what you said about the,

The hooks,

Like the,

Because there is that it's the hormonal,

Cause we've got less oxytocin.

Haven't we?

When estrogen starts to drop or it's not,

I think it is less,

I was writing something about this other day.

It impacts melatonin,

Oxytocin,

Dopamine,

And serotonin when estrogen falls.

Cause it,

Yeah,

They're all kind of co-regulated or something.

I don't know exactly the chemistry behind it,

But that kind of makes sense.

If we've got less of those like nurture nesting hormones coursing through us,

Then yeah,

Maybe the natural consequences that we don't feel so compelled to be up in someone's business.

Cause I feel like I'm,

I'm almost,

I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't think they do feel like this,

But I feel like I'm like,

Oh my God,

I seem so disinterested.

Like I've just gone.

All right.

I've done my mothering Cleo turns 18 in September.

We know that it never stops,

But I do feel like I'm like,

I just don't compared to all of the energy and the bandwidth,

Particularly emotional that I used to,

You know,

Invest.

I'm not,

Not interested.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Well,

I wonder about,

I mean,

I kind of share that experience and I wonder,

I do know some,

I have some friends who they really are the opposite.

They are much more like wanting to be in other people's business as,

And then I don't know what that's about.

Do they have careers as well?

Like,

Is there just like I've raised my family and I've not got anything to keep me occupied.

So I'm going to try to do some of them too,

Or they've started second careers.

Even I have some friends who've gone back to school and,

You know,

Gotten degrees in other fields,

But they're like very much wanting,

Wanting to be involved in their kids' lives.

Yeah.

Is that grandchildren?

Yeah,

No,

I just feel like,

Oh my God,

For the first time in my life,

I don't feel responsible for anybody.

Yeah.

Well,

I just wonder,

Part of it probably really is like a personality thing.

Right.

I think when you've spent a lot of decades kind of over-delivering,

I think,

You know,

If you think about nature,

Always wanting a balance like that,

By definition means this.

Yeah.

Second half of our life,

We must be less.

I know.

And when people say something like negative about menopause being,

You know,

Where you kind of fade into the wallpaper,

I'm like,

I would like to be that woman.

Sign me up.

Where do I get the certificate for what I know?

I know.

No,

No.

I was listening to someone the other day talking about how they don't feel,

They feel really good about themselves.

And I was like,

I don't know.

I don't know.

And I was talking about how they don't feel,

They feel really uncomfortable with the fact that they don't hold the male gaze anymore.

And I was like,

What a fucking relief.

Like,

Well,

I don't feel like I've been like that for many years anyway,

But,

But you know,

What I really like,

I'm not sad about that if that's something that,

But I guess if,

If that's been a big,

I don't know,

Identity or currency or something,

And then you feel like you're losing it,

Which,

You know,

It's all perception.

But I was just like,

I did not share that at all.

I share the,

Yay.

I can.

Yeah.

I mean,

I don't think I've ever changed my behavior around.

And I think,

You know,

When you've been married for so long,

I'm like,

It's almost like people don't see.

That's probably part of it too.

Yeah,

Exactly.

And if you're in a stable,

Committed relationship,

That probably Doesn't really.

Yeah.

That's true.

Very different than if you're not.

That is true.

Like I definitely,

In the last two years,

Still like my face has aged a lot.

And I do find it disturbing.

I do.

It's like,

I don't think you look exactly the same as what you did when I first met you,

Which would have been.

Well,

That's funny.

I mean,

Everybody has a different perception,

Right?

Like my own,

My personal perception is like,

Absolutely.

You know,

I reckon you have not changed.

And I'm not just saying that you look the same.

I remember the first call that we had for the Radiance Revolution when he came on,

I was like,

You literally do not look like you have changed at all,

Like at all.

And I was just like,

How did you do that?

Because that was a,

That was probably six or seven years in between.

I'm not sure what,

What year it would have been that we were connected last time.

2016.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's like,

That's a significant time,

Particularly when you've passed through menopause and we know that,

You know,

The less estrogen,

Et cetera.

Yeah.

I hilariously have,

You know,

I feel like I've just got to the combination of what works as far as a bit of HRT,

A bit of,

You know,

A lot of lifestyle,

Getting my sleep sorted,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah.

And now Australia has joined the UK in an estrogen shortage.

Oh no.

I literally only just was on the first prescription and I was like,

This is so much better,

You know,

Just for whatever reason,

This particular combination really,

Really.

And then,

Yeah,

Went to the chemist and they're like,

Oh,

We don't have anything of that until September or October.

I'm like,

What now?

Do you know how drastically bad this is for all of them?

Yeah.

So that's going to be interesting.

I don't know.

Yeah.

You don't have a shortage in the States that you've heard about?

Not that I know of.

I mean,

Now look,

We did have an synthetic oxytocin shortage,

Like a really bad one.

Really?

Yeah.

That lasted over six months here in the state.

We were rationing and using expired medication.

That is not good in a birthing situation.

I know.

Exactly.

Far out.

Isn't oxytocin what you like?

That's helps placenta,

Well,

Get into labor and then placenta delivery.

Yep.

Exactly.

For postpartum hemorrhage.

Yeah.

So that we're,

Because I guess there's only one place in the state.

Distributor.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I haven't,

I'll look into the estrogen shortage because that may be here too,

But yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's because all of us keep talking about it.

There's other ADHD meds too.

Oh no.

Some of those in the States are.

I see.

That would,

That would be very bad.

Now everyone is getting their diagnosis.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh,

Geez.

Now you make me think,

Do I need to go to the chemist and buy up some ADHD medication?

I was laughing because the chemist is like,

Oh,

I'm really sorry.

And he's like,

Oh,

Do you want me to ring around?

Cause we,

You know,

We were in a little town and he's like,

I'll check the other chemist.

I'll check a couple of Tawumba.

It's very generous.

Our little pharmacist man.

And he came back and he's like,

I'm really sorry to say that I went as far as Brisbane.

So it's like two and a half hours away and I can't find one chemist that I'm like.

So back to the drawing board anyway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

First world problems,

Right?

Like many,

Many,

Many women have gone through this without HRT.

So,

But yeah,

It's just.

You have to load up on your estrogenic foods.

I know.

I was like,

How much edamame do I need to eat to replace 50 micrograms of.

It's probably like next time you see me,

I'll look like an edamame.

Like a little block of tofu.

I should look like apples at the moment because we've got.

And Shane,

So we've been here about eight years and about,

I think this is our fifth season that we've got our first big crop of apples on both of our trees.

Oh,

My God.

I should look like an apple.

Like I've been making apple.

I've got slow cooked apple in oats for breakfast.

I've had apples morning and afternoon tea.

I'm starting to cook apples in dessert,

Which I don't usually do.

I'm just like,

Oh,

My God,

It's ridiculous.

And I'm thinking,

How do you preserve?

I guess you can slice them and dry them.

You can dry them.

You can make applesauce and put it in the freezer.

Yeah,

That's what I was thinking.

Yeah.

Or I sliced up hand sliced apples and cinnamon.

Yeah,

True.

I saw someone the other day put in a slow cooker.

She just peeled apples and she put water and then cinnamon,

And cloves,

Nutmeg,

A bit of chai tea,

Like a leaf tea and some orange peel.

And then she just slow cooked it away for a day and then drinks the juices kind of like the cider and then eats the apple.

And she makes this like cinnamon banana custard or something out of coconut milk.

That sounds good.

I know.

And it sounds like you could freeze that too.

Yes,

That's what I was thinking.

That's what I was like.

Let's we've got to expand my repertoire because I still reckon there's probably like not exaggerating at least 100 more apples on the tree.

And we've had apples for weeks.

I just had a green apple for breakfast again.

And I'm like,

This is just not cutting it.

Like,

Let's just stop eating just plain apple.

But anyway,

I mean,

Again,

First world problems.

But it's nice to have that glut.

Is it better than a couple of years ago?

We had a tomato glut.

And oh,

My God,

I'm still eating the tomatoes.

I slow roasted a lot of them like I'm dried.

So oven dried.

And but they're good for putting in like if you make any sort of casserole because they're so intense in their flavor.

But I'm still eating them.

And that was I think it's like three or four years ago.

And I've just put them in a deep freeze and they still seem fine.

I'm like,

Just pull them out.

So,

Yeah,

I was just starting to write my newsletter for the week.

And I'm like,

What do people think about Apple,

Windsor?

Have you ever?

Is that a thing in America?

So it's so in Australia,

We have Country Women's Association,

CWA and Country Women's Association in in the sort of probably 50s,

60s,

Even 70s was like the backbone of the country.

And so like when something went,

You know,

If someone died,

The CWA were the people that made all the amazing scones and biscuits and whatever.

If there's a natural disaster,

They're feeding the troop,

You know,

That type of but always with great baking.

So like you kind of nan kind of style of baking.

And but my husband's got one of their cookbooks from when he was in school.

So when we get like when we want to make something,

It's like,

All right,

We'll pull out the good old fashioned cookbook.

And I made an Apple Windsor,

Not a fan.

It's like it's kind of like it doesn't know whether it wants to be a cake or a custard.

It's really weird texture.

And I'm just like.

So I'm putting it to the vote in my newsletter.

I'm like,

Tell me people who likes Apple Windsor.

That is so gross.

I'll have to look it up.

Yeah,

It's not I would not recommend making.

But and I've been making lots of pumpkin soup and mushroom soup because I don't know this time of the year,

You know,

When it's cooler and you want that.

How hot is it where you are?

Is it warm yet?

Well,

It's it's going to be so.

Today it was kind of cool and rainy and then it's supposed to be what's what's 90 degrees in Celsius.

Is that like?

I don't know.

About 25?

Yeah,

90 Celsius.

Two Fahrenheit.

Oh,

90 Fahrenheit.

It's like that's 194.

Oh,

It's 32.

That's warm.

Like that's that's decent.

It'll be that by Saturday.

Yeah.

OK,

Cool.

And then it'll stay there.

It'll probably July for us is usually very is quite hot.

Steamy.

Yeah,

That's about it.

But it's dry here.

We have a dry heat.

We might have a couple of thunderstorms roll through,

But it's usually pretty dry.

Yeah,

That's what I like about where we live now,

Because we're inland.

So we get dry,

Dry,

Crisp winters and dry heat in the summer,

Whereas where we used to live on the coast was very humid.

And I go back and I can like I can handle like up to 42 degrees in dry heat is fine.

Like it's hot,

It's uncomfortable,

But it's not like you're dying.

But 30 degrees with high humidity and I'm like.

Yeah,

It just that's what I'm going back to.

Oh,

Pennsylvania.

I didn't realize.

Is that where you grew up?

Yeah,

I know that.

I don't feel like I did.

Do you know what?

Like,

How bad is this?

Pennsylvania?

What happens in my head when you say Pennsylvania is I turn it into Transylvania and turn it into Dracula.

Tell me about Pennsylvania.

Where is it?

Think about Benjamin Franklin.

Of course.

And the little girl.

Yeah,

It's it's very.

Oh,

I did know that I did know that because I did know that you were near like New York State was where I was thinking.

Yeah,

I lived in New York as well.

So yeah.

Images.

So it's nice and green.

Oh,

Yeah.

Oh,

Very green.

It's very hilly hills as opposed to mountains.

It's very humid and hot in the summer.

Yeah.

Um,

So like it doesn't really cool down a whole lot at night either.

So it's just kind of sticky all the time.

Yeah,

It does.

I mean,

You're out of the shower and.

Yeah.

Yes.

That's what it's like.

Yeah,

I can't stand that.

It's like I want to have a shower and freshen up and you have a shower and you're like,

OK,

I'm as wet as what I started.

Like,

Yeah,

It is very it's hilly,

Gentle hills,

Not mountains.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice.

I see you're pretty.

Do you see you're going all the way?

Yeah,

Right.

It's a fair way,

Isn't it?

It's a fair way.

Yes.

It's all the way across the country.

So where is I was thinking the lady I spoke to yesterday was in Massachusetts.

So that would be north.

And that's where my son lives.

Oh,

Yes.

I see.

OK,

I'm not great at we're talking about coming back to the States because it's Shane's Shane's 50th in December this year,

And then I'm 50 in January,

Not the month after,

But the year after.

Yeah.

And we're just talking about what we're going to do for our kind of 50th.

And there's lots of different things we'd like to go overseas and do.

But we would just love to go back to our family in Portland.

So we like,

Well,

We go,

But he's never been East Coast at all.

So I spent time in New York doing my training and stuff while we live there.

But he's never been east.

So I'm like,

Oh,

We could start there and then dry.

And he's like,

Do you know how long it takes to drive from one coast to the other in the States?

And I was like,

I don't know,

Like two days or so.

And he's like,

No,

Not if you're not,

If you're.

Yeah,

I want it.

And that's like that's still pushing it.

Yeah,

That's a week,

A week or a week and a half is like comfortable.

So you're not just being right.

State like big,

Like big state,

Big country from end to end.

So to fly from east to west,

If I'm remembering correctly,

It was six hours on a plane.

Yeah,

Six hours on the plane.

So what's our landmass compared to yours?

Because we take six hours from side to side in Australia.

That might be pretty close.

I reckon it might be.

I was also surprised when I was looking at coming your direction.

Yeah,

It's not going to happen this year,

Probably next year.

But yeah,

And friends,

You know,

Living in Sydney and Brisbane.

That's a long drive,

Though.

It is a long drive.

You want to fly.

I mean,

Yeah,

Last week,

Shane went for a new,

Well,

It wasn't planned.

Had to drive a bike trailer down.

We had friends that were on a motorbike adventure heading down towards Sydney.

They're kind of about,

I know,

Two thirds of the way.

And unfortunately,

One of them had a quite bad accident and had to be taken to hospital.

Not airlifted,

But transferred to hospital.

And so they needed to get the bike back.

So Shane drove down.

So he actually did two thirds of the way to Sydney and back in one day.

No,

That is not.

Yeah,

Especially when you finish it on a motorbike,

Because they couldn't actually fit all three bikes on the trailer.

So someone had to ride home.

Yeah,

And it was cold and windy.

And I'm just like,

You got up at three o'clock in the morning.

You've had hardly any sleep.

That's so dangerous.

Anyway,

Got home safe,

Thankfully.

But yeah,

You don't want to if you don't want to specifically see anything in between,

I would definitely just fly.

Because it's like 10 hours.

It used to be 12 with road improvements.

You know,

It's a pretty like if you if you go down the coast of Australia,

It's very pretty.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

So whereabouts in Sydney,

You know?

Um,

My friend who lives there just moved,

So I don't know.

I would have to.

Yeah,

Sorry.

I have to get back to you on that.

Well,

If you come to Brisbane,

I mean,

That's only two and a half hours for me.

So I would tootle across just give you a hug in person.

If we drive up the coast and make little four away,

Four years inland,

Then we may.

So nice.

Oh,

So nice.

So good.

Have you I was thinking before,

When we first reconnected with the Radiance Revelation,

You come back from a hike.

Have you have you got any hiking or nature walking plans?

I think that was one of the things that you thought you might do.

Yeah,

Not yet.

I'll have to.

My husband and I,

Paul and I will go.

Yeah.

Do some do some day hikes or weekend in the woods here and there when I get back.

But good.

Yeah,

I've only been I will have only been home for days between my last.

I think back to England and then going to Pennsylvania.

Yeah.

Do you have friends in England?

Is that what you're doing with training?

I met a group of friends.

We all met in Ireland.

Serious?

Yeah.

So we all went to a workshop in Ireland and we stayed.

And that was right before the pandemic.

That was in October of 2019.

And we stayed in touch by Zoom once a month.

And we have this big work from all over the place,

Canada,

States and Europe and UK.

Yeah.

And so we had a little bit of reunion.

There were eight of us out of 11.

That's so good.

Oh,

What a that's so good.

I was there's a what's his name?

Dr.

Chatterjee.

He's got a really cool podcast and his latest episode was about the quality of our lives is directly proportional to the quality of our connections.

And yeah,

I was thinking one of the things that there's definitely space for me to step into is making more concerted effort to keep in touch with the friends that I do have,

But also I don't have close friends where I am physically and I am really missing that like in-person connection.

So it's like I need to make the time because I am very happy in my own little bubble.

And which is lovely to have your own little bubble.

But I think there will come a time when I feel like I've isolated myself.

So it's like,

OK,

So when I hear stories like that,

I'm like,

That's the sort of like it takes time,

Like any relationship.

You've got to put the time in and invest and make it a priority instead of getting to another week.

I've got a friend coming this weekend,

But yeah,

I often will get to the end of another week and go,

I haven't spoken to any friends at all.

Yeah.

And it's like,

Oh,

And yeah,

There's stuff changing with Shane where he'll probably be away a lot more.

And I'm like,

Oh,

My God,

Now I've got no kids at home and he'll be away and I'll be in my little bubble.

And I'm very happy in my little bubble.

And then I'll kind of poke my head out and go,

I don't know anyone out there like that.

Yeah.

So I think I think there's a purpose for the like Kate Codrington's book talks about like that separation stage in perimenopause where you just you really just want to be in your own space with your own kind of whatever.

But yeah,

I think I have the potential to become a little bit hermit like because my dad was very much a hermit.

Like he was had his own way of doing things.

He liked his structure and yeah.

Yeah.

So I think so,

Yes,

Committing to the long term.

Yeah.

Connections.

And yeah.

So what sort of workshop did you do?

Like,

What was it that you went to?

So it's hard to describe.

We went to see a storyteller.

His name is Martin Shaw.

And he he's written several books.

I don't know,

Like 15 books or something like that on storytelling.

He comes from like storytelling from a European background.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Working with fairy tales,

Fables,

Myths,

Legends,

All of that.

And so the workshop actually was there was a lot of he did a lot of storytelling.

And then he has kind of like a crew that work with him.

And they did some storytelling.

We did a little bit of writing while we were there.

But the big thing was spending a day in the Dartmoor forest,

Which is or it's not just a forest.

It's this massive wild lands in the middle of southwest England in Devon.

And so we spent six hours in the blistering heat.

It was a really hot day.

That is not what I was thinking.

Right.

It usually is raining and cold and miserable.

So we actually got lucky.

It was warm.

Yes.

Yeah.

But it was hard to find any shade.

But out in this land and just connection with the land.

Wow.

That sounds magical.

Yeah.

So Dartmoor forest.

I mean,

I have to look that one up,

Too.

But yeah,

When you were saying that,

I'm thinking cool and misty.

Then you get it's hot.

The whole two weeks we were there,

It only rained once.

It rained on the day that we went to Tintagel,

Which is the mythic birthplace of King Arthur.

And there are ruins of a castle up there.

And while we were at the top,

It just started to pour.

Oh,

Wow.

None of us brought our rain gear.

I know.

It had been so nice.

So it's part of the adventure.

We got drenched.

I mean,

It was wild.

We had walked down these slate steps that had just become a river.

Oh,

No.

It was a little scary.

That makes my back seize up in anticipation of falling.

But it was an adventure.

Wow.

It sounds like the blossom of our party in one.

You know,

Some people like went to a cafe.

They're like,

Screw this.

And we're looking for them.

Time out.

It sounds like the type of adventure,

Though,

That you do connect with people because of that.

What it is.

That's why I was interested.

Yeah,

We all got to the cafe and everybody's like shaking off their wet clothes.

Everyone was drenched.

Wow.

That's so cool.

What a memory.

Great to do stuff like that.

And that's definitely things that are out of my comfort zone.

And.

And,

You know,

Completely also like unrelated to anything that I do.

This is what I was just about to say.

And I think that that's really important.

It's the beginner's mind.

Hey,

Like there's no.

And like you were saying before,

When you kind of had that realization about the sabbatical not being the space to try and figure out,

Like the answer.

It's like if we do stuff all the time,

That's just connected to what we do.

We just like cementing more and more that that's like the thing.

And it starts feeling heavy rather than feeling like something that you do for work.

I think that's another thing that the anchor of like,

Yeah,

I don't want to live to work.

I want to work so that,

Yeah,

There's income to be able to invest in those sort of ventures and joys.

And like I have a really my dad was Irish.

I have a very deep desire to go to.

No kitty cat.

I just saw the.

No,

It looks like my cat's tail.

But yeah,

That pull to go to Ireland,

I feel like it's something that I probably will do by myself,

Though,

Like it's I don't know,

It just feels kind of a bit more.

I don't know,

I wouldn't be something that I wouldn't say yes to,

You know,

Saying going as well to have an adventure because but I don't really it's not really like that's not where he would go in the world if he could go anywhere.

And I would like.

Yeah,

I feel like I don't know,

There's something in me that wants to like go to Ireland and just lay on the ground.

Such a weird thing to say,

But you know that a lot of people feel that way when they go to Ireland,

I went to Ireland.

I had some really weird experiences with the land.

Yeah.

And it was a little unnerving.

So and I think that that that does seem to happen to a lot of people.

It's like it just yeah.

The land still holds a lot of its story there.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Right.

And I,

You know,

In the Irish have really nurtured that.

Yeah,

They have.

Where I feel like that that isn't true for most other,

You know,

At least European places in the world or Western kind of places.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

But that's definitely still.

Yeah,

The old the old stories and that and that deep rootedness is still really present.

I am there and you have you don't have to work so hard to find it,

Which is interesting.

That's I feel like it's quite there's something.

I would say if I had to describe it,

It's like a yearning to go there.

And it is probably because of the connection to dad.

But there's also some kind of.

I know.

Magical.

I don't I I can't think of her name.

Oh,

Yes.

Nora Roberts,

The author,

You know,

Her like prolific author,

But some of the like trilogies that she writes,

They're often in Ireland or somewhere like that.

And I think I don't know some of her storytelling about the land and the history of the land and stuff really resonates with me,

Whereas like I've got friends that love like watching all of those like British or like the Queen Elizabeth,

Like all of sort of period drama.

And I'm just like,

This just does not interest me at all.

It's just not my thing.

But like magic and very fairies and leprechauns and old wisdom from,

You know,

Tales that have been told and told and told that feels really.

Yeah,

Just feels like something I'd like to follow.

It's one of those threads.

I think that's the other cool thing about being this age.

It's like I don't have to think about kids.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You just yeah.

If you have the means.

Yeah.

You can just you can just go.

It's funny,

I went about this time,

No,

About September last year when I went to a friend's place and I knew like the burnout was real.

You know,

I was really teetering on the edge of,

Yeah,

Not not good place to be.

And I sat down by the water.

She's in Sydney.

She's on the northern beaches in Sydney.

And the water is kind of lapping away.

And I took a journal down.

I was just like,

What do I how do I want to feel?

And that's when wild and finally fucking free came from like that really like freedom's always been my highest value.

But that yeah,

The wildness is the opposite of the good girl like that to me is,

You know,

It's the opposite energy of feeling like you're obligated and weighed down and heaviness and responsible and all of those things.

And then,

Yeah,

The opposite is that wild and free,

You know,

Just like.

What will come of this wild and free?

I'm really interested to see how you'll feel like.

So you've got next month is October.

So you've got July and July,

August,

September.

My my I have a couple of people do end of October,

Beginning of November.

So.

So how early do they come into your care?

Pretty well,

There they're.

Oh,

For for me being on call again.

Yeah.

Like October 1st is still good.

Three full months.

So,

Yeah,

I've got three full months.

And I'm curious,

Too.

I'm really curious to see if I get it to October and I'm like,

Fuck this.

Yeah,

I'm not feeling very excited about this.

You know,

Like I'll do what I need to.

But maybe,

You know,

I'm just leaving it open.

I don't think that's going to happen,

But but it might.

I might.

You know,

And having the time might just say,

You know what,

I really need to shift gears and I'll just,

You know,

Complete my obligations to people who are close.

That's it.

And give others the option and and then but,

You know,

Just stick with it or get way more choosy or feel like I need even bigger blocks of time off.

Yeah,

That's who knows.

I think I know I know now,

Like not just intellectually,

But I know more from an embodied place that all of those things are options and that I get to choose.

Choose.

Change my mind.

Yeah.

Like that's it.

Like this,

You know,

I'll keep going with this and if it isn't working,

I get to say this isn't working and I'm going to do something different.

And exactly.

And trusting that it'll all be fine.

It will all be fine.

Yeah,

100 percent.

It will all be fine.

And even if the change of mind does mean that people have the option of moving to a different provider or whatever,

That like I more and more,

I am just anchoring to a belief that I've always had.

But it feels more and more true to me is that you can trust the timing of how everything is unfolding.

You can trust the timing of your life.

You can trust the timing of your instincts.

You can trust the timing of this switch that has happened that we can't kind of manufacture from.

Yeah,

Maybe feeling like it's just the way I have to be to all.

Hang on.

I've got a choice.

Okay,

Like that agency,

Like you can trust the timing of all that.

I think like every single time,

Like if you were to look back on the timing of your life,

I don't know.

It's like that Steve Jobs quote,

Like you only see the dots in retrospect,

But it all makes sense.

And I'm just like,

I don't know.

My dad's thing was it'll all work out in the end.

And if it hasn't worked out,

It's not the end.

And I'm just like,

Well,

If I can pick one belief that would get you through life,

That would be it.

Like,

Yeah,

Trust the timing.

And I feel like we can intellectualize things exactly like you said,

But then it's a felt sense in your body.

That's like,

There's actually multiple choices and I can choose one.

And if I choose that and it doesn't feel right when I start to do it,

Then I can choose again.

Freedom,

Freedom,

Freedom,

Freedom.

I'm going to sing George Michael now.

I won't do that to you,

Jane.

Even if it is our last call,

I won't sing.

It's one of those things.

Oh,

Dear.

It has been an absolute pleasure to reconnect.

It's been really lovely to be in your orbit again.

And yeah,

Keep in touch.

I'd love to know how things are going.

How things.

Yeah.

How they all unfold.

I meant to ask you before,

Do you feel?

I know that you do like you've got massage and wellness and like the dance and everything.

Do you feel more pulled in that direction at the moment?

Or not at the moment because we're taking time off,

But is that something that you'll play with?

I am doing I am providing more body work.

Yeah.

To people like that just kind of came up.

I think.

Does it feel good?

Yeah,

It feels all right.

I mean,

It's.

It is it is quote unquote easier,

You know?

Yeah.

Oh,

Yeah.

You know,

Of course,

I am present and,

You know,

And do the thing,

But I'm not.

There it comes naturally.

So that's so that is nice.

And I'm still teaching wild soul movement classes.

Yeah.

A little bit online.

Yeah.

And I'll start doing in person again in the fall.

Yeah.

And I might do a couple couple like.

Short kind of workshop workshop.

Be yeah.

Things.

Yeah.

But nothing high pressure or consistent.

We'll just kind of see how it goes.

Yeah.

But am I feeling more pulled to them?

Not necessarily.

Not necessarily.

Yeah.

No.

I'm kind of just seeing.

What bubbles up to the surface.

Yeah.

Allowing the space for for that.

And,

You know,

You're talking about,

Like,

The timing of things like that.

Well,

The timing of those opportunities or requests.

Yeah.

Responsive to requests for that kind of stuff is nice to be able to have the space to do that.

It's very good.

And.

Yeah,

Just really guarding against that impatience of trying to figure out.

That's about trusting the timing,

Right?

Yeah.

100%.

Yeah.

Being impatient for.

Yeah.

For the next thing or to have things sorted or whatever that is.

Because we're trying to push something rather than receive something.

And it's very different.

And yeah,

I am.

I'm really trying to be in a more receptive mode this summer.

So good.

Julie.

So good exercise that muscle because it's pretty it's been pretty weak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My word for this year is receptive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I felt the same.

Like I was always trying to get it done or planning or structuring or pushing or whatever.

And it's just like,

Oh,

This is not working.

Yeah.

Well,

I'm just I'm so tired.

I feel like I can't.

Yeah.

I mean,

I even try to think ahead.

I'm like,

Yeah,

There's a no go zone in my head.

So I'm like,

All right.

Yeah.

But the good thing about that,

Like,

That's also the gift.

But I even like I've been thinking about depression because depression has definitely been present with me for the last few months.

But what is depression?

Like,

I really love the Jim Carrey and not this doesn't sit well with everyone.

So I'm careful what circles I say.

This is my opinion.

But,

You know,

One of the things that he has said about depression is it's a calling to deep rest.

And then also when you like when you listen to Gabby or Marty,

How have you said that talk about depression?

He's like,

What is depression?

It's pushing down.

What are you pushing down your feelings?

And it's like,

I think my depression has come because I finally stopped pushing.

And then my I don't know,

I'm being called to deep rest.

I'm being called not to be the one who's trying to carry the load or sort it out or juggle the balls or push something quicker than what it's meant to.

And so but by definition,

That also means that I haven't.

Yeah,

I've been allowing things to show me like you were saying,

Bubbling up,

Like I've been allowing in business and in life all over the place just to allow life to show me and not try and figure it out.

And that's actually the whole reason why this entire other thing in my business has happened,

Because exactly like you were saying,

Someone has requested.

And then I was like,

Oh,

OK,

Yeah,

I can do that.

I love writing,

Whatever.

And it's got its own energy.

Couple of people messaged me overnight and I'm like,

I have no idea where you're coming from.

I've put like a post on social media.

I've talked about it in my newsletter and.

I sent an email to a few people that I knew in business,

But that's it.

Like and that was only because I got the kind of ping to and they all felt very easy to do and very gentle.

And yeah,

It's like I can trust that life will show me where I'm meant to be and I don't have to figure it out.

But seeking control,

Which is the seeking of safety,

Which doesn't give you safety anything anyway.

The safety thing is the trust of yourself that only comes when you practice the muscle of being receptive and trusting that you can respond to whatever comes your way.

Yeah,

I'm like,

How am I this old and I'm already just like running over the top of the thing.

Then you never have the opportunity.

Well,

We can't even hear we can't even hear what's trying to come our way because we're so busy making noise on the surface.

Mudding the water by actually,

That's a good analogy,

Isn't it?

So,

Yeah,

I don't feel like I was necessarily well,

Like pushing emotions down.

But I mean,

I guess in a way I wasn't.

I felt like I was constantly like skating over top of them,

Like moving over top of them.

Like always that was underneath and I knew it was there.

And I was like,

I'm not going to do that.

Yeah,

I have to look after other people,

Not myself.

I mean,

At some level,

I guess that is pushing it down.

Well,

It's numbing,

Numbing by keeping busy.

Right.

It's numbing or it's just like,

Just going over top of it.

Yeah,

Avoid it.

It creates an interesting surface.

Don't look at that.

Don't look at that.

Don't look at that.

Move faster.

Get over that hill.

That's so true.

But yeah,

But now that there is more space,

Like,

Yeah,

Just that that flatness is it's interesting.

It's interesting.

Thanks to the but blank canvas actually is a nice way to frame it.

Yeah,

I like that.

I think that that's really what it is.

It's like that.

When you look out at the ocean after a big storm,

How it just can take on like that glass glass.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know that there's a lot going on there,

But it's just yeah,

It's just that calm.

And if you take that analogy one step further,

It's again back to the balance.

Right.

Like by definition,

The energy of the storm comes,

It exhausts itself and then there's calm.

It's like,

Oh,

Okay.

That's actually what we're doing.

Like there's a lot going on in that perimenopause transition.

Like we're literally rewiring and being sort of like reconfigured.

No different to puberty,

No different to the journey through pregnancy,

Et cetera.

And yet we don't expect that we would need the same sort of like support and tending and whatever.

Like it's like how I was saying that to someone the other night,

And I definitely got that kind of kernel of understanding from our talk.

It was like you wouldn't expect to shed an 11 year old daughter.

You wouldn't expect that your daughter,

When she started to show the emotional,

Mental,

Physical changes of going through puberty,

You wouldn't expect her to stay in the form that she's in now with no changes and also no support to go through the changes.

So why are you expecting the same thing from yourself at the other end?

And when you frame it like that,

People can go,

Oh,

Okay,

That actually makes perfect sense.

But yeah,

I don't know.

It's all the stuff that we've got about,

We have to look after other people and we have to be the kid,

Whatever,

Whatever the conditioning is.

It's just like,

Wow,

When you clean that off the windshield,

Things are a lot easier to see.

And I think the blank slate too,

I don't know,

There's something in me that says when you grow up in,

This is my experience,

When you grow up in chaos,

Peace feels really boring.

So.

That resonates.

Yeah.

I just,

I'm really.

Yeah.

And that's why my word was receptive because I,

What I really wanted for myself for this year,

Like I always pick a word and,

You know,

The word always happens,

But not in the way that I expect it to.

But that was that being more open to just feeling well supported on all levels.

Like,

Which is something that I have not experienced.

That I have not experienced definitely not well,

Not logically,

Not through here,

But definitely not in my body,

You know,

Not experience that sense of peace or safety or whatever.

And it's like,

Oh,

So all of that opens up all of this.

God,

Where are we going to be in another five years?

She,

I don't know.

Oh,

Exciting.

It was starting to get excited about the.

And yeah,

Not excited,

Like,

Oh,

Must plan,

Must get the new thing.

Just.

But it's that curious.

Yeah.

So nice.

Very cool.

Well,

Thank you so much for creating.

Holding this space for us.

Much.

It's been a.

I'm.

Yeah,

It's been a funny I don't know,

It's been a weird nine months,

I feel like.

I was thinking funny,

It's nine months.

Like I'm pushing something.

I see.

Yeah,

Like I yeah.

It's kind of like the word of the year again,

Like the coming home collective was always supposed to be about coming home to yourself.

It just hasn't ended up being in the way that I thought it might be.

It's unfolded differently,

Which is that's life.

And yeah,

No,

Not good,

Not not bad.

I think it's it's been.

Yeah,

A lovely place to connect and play with this coming of age or something.

I don't know.

Maybe we should be calling it a coming of age.

We should get a bloody key at 50,

Shouldn't we?

I want to watch or something.

Yeah,

Watch or something like I think I feel like it should be more important than a watch,

Though.

No,

We need to be able to take off our watches.

No,

No bound by time.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

Stay in touch.

I cannot wait to see.

I'd love to actually let's see if it feels OK for you or if it feels good for you.

I'd be interested to have another chat on the podcast about post sabbatical because it's post sabbatical.

Yeah,

I was actually thinking about that.

Yeah,

I feel like that would be because there's a lot of well,

I'm the I can't remember where that's I think it's wise power.

Yeah,

Wise power,

The menstruality,

You know,

Read what are they read school ladies?

They talk about like really perimenopause is the perfect time to take a sabbatical if you can.

And they talk about like,

You know,

Obviously not everyone can.

But yeah,

Well,

That's exactly right.

It's like this got to be something during my period.

And then I'm positive.

Oh,

Menopause.

See that?

Well,

I had such a long perimenopause that when it finally like when my periods finally stopped,

I was kind of like,

OK,

But that was right when the pandemic started.

Yeah.

And that's when your business went crazy.

And that's what my business.

So in your blank state,

Like what was supposed to be your blank state,

You had a lot of busyness.

They wonder you're tired.

God.

We'll revisit it.

Thank you,

My love.

Yes,

Let's stay connected.

We've we connected on Facebook.

I don't think we are on Instagram.

You on Instagram?

But anyway,

Facebook.

Yeah,

I know where to find you.

Keep in touch.

Let me know if you're coming to Australia earlier than you say you are.

OK,

Big love.

Have a great afternoon.

Bye.

See you later.