Interview: Angie Hawkins ~ The Magical Second Chance!

Angie shares a powerful story this episode- it's all about love, those who pass before us, and how they show up, much later, to remind us that the love that binds this universe, is more potent than we could ever imagine. It's about second chances and forgiveness, and so much more!

Transcript

Hey, Everyone, And welcome back to the podcast. You know why this podcast exists. It's here for you to remind you that magic and mystery abound in this reality. And many days when we wake up and roll out of bed, We have no idea of the enchanting day ahead of us. This week's episode comes courtesy of my guest, Angie Hawkins, Who, Among many other things, Has jumped out of a helicopter and into the ocean, Bungee jumped, Skydived, And cliff-jumped and is a surfer in Hawaii's oceans. But she's also an inner glow coach who transforms high-achieving spiritual women from chasing love and approval to radiating the fierce confidence that they innately have. She's actually very, Very funny. And the two of us just got along like a house on fire. And Angie's story, Well, It's all about second chances in the most unexpected ways. It's a little bit spooky. It's a little bit mystery. And it's all about believing that those who pass before us are always here and always open to making amends. So without further ado, Here's my next conversation with the glorious I'm Angie Hawkins. I was the treasurer on my condo association. So I was like, We cannot afford to fumigate the hallway. So I was pissed. So I was getting ready to be like, Stop smoking in the hallway. So I like fly open the door and there's nobody there. And I was like, I know I smelled someone smoking. So I walked around the corner to the elevator bank thinking they were waiting for the elevator. And there was nobody there. So let's say you had to get on stage and you had to introduce yourself to people. How would you do that? Well, I'm kind of mysterious, So in that situation, I think I would just be like, Hi, I'm Angie. And then people would be like, Who is this girl? Would you just then like leave the stage or would you take questions from the audience? Oh yeah, I'd maybe take questions from the audience. Okay. Or maybe like give them a little blurb, But. I don't know. Cause I feel like, I guess it depends on the person, Right? Cause it's like, It depends on the audience. So like, What would they be interested in knowing? Because, You know, I live in Hawaii and I surf, But it's like, I'm not going to be talking about surfing to people who are landlocked and have no idea what any of that stuff means. So. Totally, Totally. I, I, If we lived in the same city and you were surfing, I'd be sitting on the beach watching you surf. So just to let you know, I'm, I tried to surf once for a bachelorette party off the Oregon coast and I was just terrible. There's something about Like, I feel like you have to start doing that when you're young. Yes. Yeah, I agree. One, Because kids are fearless. Whereas like as an adult, I'm like, Oh my god, If I fall and even though it's water, Like your board can hit you, Other people can hit you. So I'm always nervous about getting injured. But also the thing about kids is The hardest thing to learn about surfing is reading the ocean. Yeah, It's like it's not the technical skills at all. Because yeah, You can be standing up and doing all the things but if you can't read what the ocean is doing, None of that matters. And so I I'm good at reading the ocean, But a lot of it is intuitive because sometimes it's like, I know a set is coming and I can't explain how I know, But I'll just start getting into position. But kids, Because they're not tainted by egos and all of that stuff, They have, They're amazing at reading waves. Like a lot of kids can read the ocean better than professional surfers. That's awesome. I, Yeah, I'll, I've told this story before, But when I used to date this guy, He would take us to Sun Valley over Christmas and New Year's. And, Um, I'm also not a great skier, So I would stay on the kid's mountain and he would go to the grownup mountain. And I just remember being on, You know, Greens, I think I went did one blue ones, But well, Whatever, I did the easy ones. And I would just be practicing going up and down, Up and down. And then I'd look over and there would be this four year old going down backwards, Facing the wrong direction, And like making it look easy. And I was like, I just don't, I don't understand what's happening here. I'm just don't. Oh, I wish my parents would have taken me skiing, But we lived overseas in places that didn't have mountains. Um, Okay. So here's my question. You said you moved from Chicago to Hawaii. I actually, After we came back from overseas, I lived in Batavia, Illinois. So where did you move from in Chicago? I lived, I lived in the city the entire time I lived in Chicago. Yeah. I, I actually lived in the South loop for a long time. And then when I moved here, I was living in Old Town. But the funny thing is, Because I don't know if you know anything about the South Loop or like the evolution. Very little. So it used to be government project housing and then it got gentrified and I moved to the South Loop at the very beginning of gentrification because I wanted to live by the lake and every other neighborhood was like ridiculously expensive and South Loop was so affordable and it was right on the lake like I lived a few blocks away from Soldier Field right on the lakefront and I had like really cheap affordable rent But like, It was like a ghost town because a lot of people still didn't want to live there or whatever. So even the building that I lived in, Cause I was renting a condo, The building was only like 50% populated, But I loved it because it was quiet. Like I lived by the lake. My rent was cheap. I had a view of the lake. Like it was like so amazing. But if I would tell someone like, Yeah, I live in the South loop. They would be like, What? Cause I was like in my twenties. So they're like, What is this young white girl doing living in the South loop? But yeah, I lived there for many, I lived in the South Loop for like seven years. Wow. Wow. And so how did you make the decision to move to Hawaii? Um, So there's a lot of things. Um, So the first, The seed got planted in my childhood because I had a Hawaii Barbie doll and she had hair down to her butt. And I found that so fascinating. So from a very early age, I had this fascination with Hawaii also because it was like this far off land and you know, All the things. And then as an adult, One of my friends lived here, So that would have been like. Trying to think of the first year I came here. So maybe like 2007 to 2013, She lived here. So I came every year and just fell in love with it. But in my mind, It was always like, Oh, One day I will live there because it was like, I always had all these excuses because it's like, Well, It's too expensive. It's too far away. Like then I would need to find a job there. And I was like in this really shitty relationship, But I would use that as an excuse. Like, Oh, I have a boyfriend, You know, All the things. Made all these excuses. And then in 2017, My dad died and he was only 63. So that was my reminder. Life is too short to not do what you want to do because I was, I don't know, You're just kind of faced with your own mortality and those kinds of situations. So, And I remember he passed away in February, 2017. So like the rest of the year I was like grieving and didn't know what to do with myself. But then in early 2018, I was like sick and tired of being sick and tired and I was like, What do I want to do with my life? And I was like, I want to move to Hawaii and be a writer and it just seemed like so like just like a ridiculous pipe dream, Right? But like, When you set your intention, Like things start coming together. And things just weirdly started coming together to the point where I was like, I think I can actually do this. And I actually did end up moving later that year, Which I consider myself like bold and courageous and confident now, But that was not who I was in 2018. So even looking back in hindsight, I'm like, Wow, That was like really badass of me to move to Chicago, To Hawaii. I want to just say I'm so sorry about the loss of your father. That is young. That is so young. Oh my gosh. That's terrible. But, I mean, It's interesting how It sounds like you gave yourself a lot of time and space for grief. In honoring that, Do you agree or no? It was because, Because I was 37 years old, And I had spent 37 years repressing my feelings and not feeling my feelings. So the reason it took so long is because I basically had zero experience feeling my feelings, And I didn't know how to navigate that. So thank you, But I don't, The true reason was like, I had no idea what was happening. Also, That was a time, Cause I feel like grief is way more spoken about now. Like even on Instagram, Like you go on there, There's like grief accounts. It was not like that in 2017. So I was like, What is this? I remember one of my friends bought me this book and it was so well-intentioned, But it like, What is it? The five stages of grief or whatever. And it's like this perfectly structured, Like this is what it is. It didn't make sense to me because it's like, Like things here and there resonated, But it acted like these are the stages and then you get to the end and then it's done. And I was like, I, This doesn't make sense to me. So there just weren't conversations or normal things and conversations about grief back then either. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting how things have kind of accelerated as far as having conversations around that. I'm so grateful because, You know, Um, I think this is a generalized statement, But I think women are really more able to access or in tune. But I think the internet, Instagram, All this conversation is also allowing men to say it's okay to grieve. Um, It's becoming normalized or accepted, Which is terrible. Like it should have been the whole time. I know because I remember like To some extent, We still are just good over at society. But again, I do think it is more normalized. But like back then, It was like after a few months, People stopped asking me how I was doing. I remember at one point, I was still sad and one of my friends acted like something was wrong with me. And it's like, My dad died of like, Of course, I'm still sad. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, It's. . . I think. Yeah, I don't get that. I mean, Everybody grieves in their own way. One's journey isn't going to look the same as anyone else's. And sometimes, You know, It depends on the person. Sometimes it takes a really long time to get over that. Sometimes, You know, Maybe you need six months. Um, And then maybe over the next 20 years, There will be pangs because you'll think about the person, You know, It's different. I'm of the mindset now. Like, I don't think I'll ever be over my dad dying, But like, What's wrong with that? Like, Because to your point, Like, Things will come up. And it makes me sad. And I'm not like crying on the floor, Like I was in the beginning. And it's not like debilitating or interfering with my life. But I still have these moments of grief. And I don't feel like there's anything wrong with that. Yeah, There's not, There's not, There's not, You know, It's, It's, I don't know, Grief is, It can be wild because you can not think about it for a few weeks or a month. And then all of a sudden it can just smack you upside the head. And you're like, Oh my God, You know, Maybe you'll see someone that looks like your father, Or if you lost a friend, You'll see someone that reminds you of your friend, Or it can steal up on you in ways that you don't expect, But it's, Yeah, It's, It's such a necessary process. I've always loved the example of grief where in certain cultures, The people are just wailing, Because I think that wailing and catharsis is so powerful. And I just wish in the US we wailed a little more. Yeah. Yeah, Why don't we do stuff like that? We need to figure this out. I wanted to also talk to you about your book, Running in Slippers, Because You know, I, You need to know that I am the world's biggest. Most accident prone person. I mean, I'm just, I trip over things. I accidentally walk into walls and I don't even know how that happens. You know, Like I'll just say bumping. I think I have bad depth perception. Is that your issue? Maybe that's me too. Anyway, I was like looking or I mean, I was looking at your cover, But then I was also reading the title, You know, And understanding the title. And I thought, Okay, This is, This would be bad for me to run in slippers. Cause I already know that that is a disaster in the making for me. And I would trip and fall, Or maybe there's ice on the ground and I would just slip and slide across the ice, Like bad situations will happen. Is that was that kind of what you're implying? No, Kind of. Okay, So just to go back a little bit, Because I live in Hawaii, And we call flip-flops slippers. So actually means running in flip-flops, But I think running in either one would be difficult, Right? But it's a metaphor for life. Because life and running in flip-flops can be adventurous, Playful, And fun, But it could also be dangerous, Painful, And scary. So you encapsulated the negative part of it. Yeah. Great. Great. I do. I do have to say, You know, One of the things that was most remarkable in 2010, I moved down to Florida for a couple of months to spend time helping my friend go through Parkinson's surgery. And, Um, I'd never really spent an extended period of time in Florida before, But literally like the nurses, She had 24 hour nursing care. The nurses would show up, You know, In shorts and like shirts and they never wore normal shoes. Issues. Everyone always was walking around in flip flops. I was like, What is this cultural convention that I don't understand? And so I basically I was like, All right, I got to go native. So I just got some flip flops and I put them on. And then I brought that back with me to Portland. And I was like, You guys just don't understand how comfortable this is, OK? Yeah. And they would say, Even to the point where I was in Santa Fe, I moved here. It's my first winter. It had just snowed. And I exited a coffee shop. Well, Walked around that day in two inch snow in my flip flops. But I was like, This is comfortable for me. Okay. Yeah. You would fit in so well here. Would I? Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. I feel like here it's either barefoot or flip flops. I hate wearing shoes. Like if I go to the mainland or anything and I have to wear shoes, It's like horrible. I hate it. I know I do at this point, Sometimes when I'm putting on a shoe, I'm like, This is an abomination. I like that you carried the tradition with you. Yes, I did. I did. You know, And in Portland, It rains like what, 250 days out of the year. So I'm like, You know, Going to the movies or walking to the grocery store in flip flops, Which can be dangerous when it's wet outside and you go into a I've slid a lot. Yeah, I almost I was in Spain in October and I was wearing flip flops and I almost slipped and fell in a crosswalk like carrying my because I carry on with just a backpack. So I had like all my stuff on me. I was like, That would have been horrible. And embarrassing. Yes, Yes, I yeah, I have a whole story about horrible and embarrassing, But I'm not going to tell it so. Um, Okay. I love your life. You live in Hawaii. You were just in Spain. How do you do all this? I think I might be borderline insane at this point. Wait, What? I don't know. You know what? I'm at the point in my life, Because I used to like. . . And I'm not like knocking this. I used to like save a bunch of money for someday. I used, Again, I used to think like, Oh, One day I want to do this. One day I want to do that. And I would just kind of like live my life for one day. And then in the moment it's like I would work and just be in my adult life that was like so boring and not really happy and fulfilling. And moving here just opened my eyes up to a lot of things because when I lived in Chicago, It's a very work hard, Play hard mentality. So like Monday through Friday, You are working, You're grinding, You're hustling. And then on the weekend you have fun. So when I moved here, I'm not even exaggerating, Almost the first year that I lived here, I would not do anything fun Monday through Friday. Cause I'm like, You just, That's not what you do. Like I, It just like was beyond my comprehension. And then I slowly started getting out of my comfort zone and I'm like, Oh my God, This is fun to go to the beach on a Wednesday afternoon. You know what I mean? And then also, I, Living here. . . Opened me up to travel to new places because we were talking about New Zealand earlier. And that was the first place I actually, It's not the first, I went to Guam first, But New Zealand and Australia was the first big trip that I took after I moved here because, You know, From Chicago, It's like a 24 hour journey. So it was like, I had always wanted to go, But it was just like, I'm not doing that. So like I went to New Zealand and Australia. And since then I've been to like Indonesia, And Philippines and other places in Asia, Which before just seemed like not that it wasn't a possibility, But it was just like too much because I don't want to fly for 24 hours. And then I had always wanted to go to Spain and Morocco, Because in the early 2000s, Did you ever watch Rick Steves Travels Europe? I try not to, Cause I get really sad that I'm not traveling and going all those places. And I pine, I pine for like days. And it's just like, Yeah, So I did watch, But it made me, I had this ache. I was like, Oh my God. But you know of the show, Right? Yes. People are like, What? But it's an older show. Yeah. But anyway, On one of the episodes, Actually my favorite episode was Copenhagen. My second favorite episode was Spain. Because he took the ferry over to Morocco and like went to all the markets and stuff. And I was like, Oh, I don't know. Like, I was just like, I'm going to do that one day. And it was stuck in my brain. And I felt like my opportunity had passed because that would have been a trip to go to from Chicago. Um, So I felt like the opportunity had passed, But then this opportunity came up for a surf retreat in Morocco. And I was like, And I love surfing. And I was like, This is perfect. Perfect because then I can go to Spain first and then go to Morocco. So that's what I did. I went to Spain and then I took the ferry to Morocco and then I went surfing in Morocco. But, And see, And this is the funny thing. People do think like I live, I'm living the life cause I live in Hawaii and I do all these things. First of all, I do live in Hawaii, But I also work full time and have like adult responsibilities. So it's not like I'm on vacation all the time. Also, The way I just described Spain and Morocco, You're probably thinking like, Oh my God, That sounds like so much fun. It was the worst trip I've had in my entire life for so many reasons. So yeah, It's like the Instagram versus reality effect. Like my life may seem all like perfect and hunky dory, But it is not always. Thank you for being honest about that. I'm now feeling better about myself, So thank you. Let me ask you this question, Because I think it's a pretty cute question, But what did you want to be when you grew up? I wanted to be a teacher and a writer. Okay, Which I kind of am those things now because I'm a coach and I did author a book. It's like you lived into it. That's kind of amazing. Yeah. Wow, Okay, So let me ask you, Why teacher? I don't know. I do remember I had this notebook. It was like a professional notebook. My dad probably gave it to me because he would like go to these conferences and stuff and like get office supplies and you know, Like it was the eighties. So like office supplies were fun to play with because we didn't have all the fancy toys. But I just remember like I would make a roster of students names and I would just like pretend to teach the class. Really sure why I was, Like, Drawn to that, But. . . I just like the idea of taking attendance and doing all the teacher things. I love that because actually in my basement, When we, We moved back to Batavia, I actually created a tiny Italian restaurant in the basement and pretended to take people's orders. So, Um, I did end up working in restaurants later in my life. Um, Let me ask you this, Cause this is, This is a blast from the past. I think you're a bit younger than me. Um, But did you ever cover your notebooks in school with stickers? Oh, Yeah. Puffy stickers. Oh, Yeah Yeah. Like Care Bear and Rainbow Bright type stickers, Yeah. Okay. All right. We can move along now. Not that I have the sticker question answered. Okay. I'd love to ask you the second question, Which is, Did you grow up in a religious household? If so, What did that look like? And, You know, How has that evolved over time? You know, If you even have a connection to source or if you, You know, Frankly, If I lived in Hawaii and I was a surfer, I'd be like, I'm sorry. The ocean is God at this point. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm at now. Um. . . I think my mom would like to say it was a religious household. Basically, My parents didn't get divorced until I was in college, So I grew up with both of my parents in the house. My dad was not religious. My mom was religious in the sense we were Catholic. And she was religious in the sense that we went to church every Sunday. But that was kind of it. It was more like. . . We were the kind of religious where we're just like checking off the boxes to make sure that we're doing all the right things so we can get into heaven one day. Like, I didn't really know why we were going. I wasn't really paying attention. I didn't really understand what any of it meant. It was, I was just going through the motions. Did you, Did your church have that thing where kind of, Well, No, I guess it would be in the first third of the service, All the little kids would get dismissed and like go. To like a kid's school. No, We didn't have that. OK, Because I was really sad when I aged out of that. I think that seems practical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you were probably learning in a way that you understood. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. I just remember seeing my brother and sister leave and I was like, I'm really jealous right now. And I wonder how long the sermon is going to be this time, Like 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And when you're young, Even a 15 minute sermon feels like forever. I know. Interminable. Yeah. You know, I do think sometimes I remember how I'd go to school. Um, And I'd be, You know, Tired and I'd be looking at the clock and thinking, Oh, I'm, I'm literally going to fall asleep before school ends today. I just can't wait to leave. I can't wait to leave. When is this day going to be over? And now I would give anything to be back there. Yeah. I totally feel you on that. Like, Yeah, Like the time just flies by now. It's like, I get mad that the day is over and I'm like, I didn't have time to do all the stuff I wanted to do. Yes. You feel my pain. You feel my pain. You know, You know. I'd love to ask, How did you get the idea? Maybe the idea, But also the bravery, The cojones, The amazing fortitude to put your voice out into the world in the form of a book. Well. . . The idea came about in the time period after my dad passed away, Because again, Like back then, Nobody was talking about grief. And after a few months, People just expected me to be over it. So I put on my happy face and pretended like I was okay. But then I would go on Instagram, And everyone's like, Oh, My life is so perfect. And here's my vacation and whatever. And even in real life, Other people were putting on their happy face and pretending everything was okay. So in my mind, I was like, There have to be other people going through shitty things. Like I can't be the only one. And I was like, Why aren't we talking about this? So I was like, Oh, I could write a book about all the shitty things that have happened to me. And you know, Instead of like, Because I feel like a lot of memoirs are like, Especially famous people. I love the famous people memoirs that like get into the stuff. But like, For instance, I'll just call it out like Michelle Obama, She just kind of like skimmed all over the surface and everyone loved her book. And I'm like, I hated it because she just did all the surface level stuff. And I'm like, I know there's more here story. But anyway, I'm like, Yeah, Let's just all start talking about this stuff. But again, Back then, I was terrified of allowing myself to be seen like my I think my core wound is having the fear of allowing myself to be seen because my mom was always so critical of me, Like especially of my face. So that's like truly being seen if someone's looking at your face, Let alone like speaking how you feel and all the things and it was it was just terrifying to me. So I had the idea and it felt like a good idea, But I was like, I could never do that. So in 2020, I almost died. And then that was kind of like, Okay, Like, Basically, Yeah, Life is too short to not do this. So let's just do it. And then I got out of the hospital. I called a friend and I told her everything that happened. And she was like, It's not your time. And that was so profound because I was like, First of all, I was like, Not, I was still not in the right mind, But I was like, I was like, I'm here. And I think that means I do have a purpose. And I was like, I don't know what it is, But I'm going to figure it out. And so I also decided because I had tried traditional therapy and other things, And they obviously were not working. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to invest in myself and hire a coach. So I hired a coach. And on our very first call, He was like, If you could do anything and not worry about money, What would you do? And the very first thing that came to my mind was the book. I was like, I have this idea for a book. It's going to be about real life. And then I'm going to go on a speaking tour. And then all these different locations are going to be safe spaces for people to talk about real life, Basically. And he was like, Did you notice how lit up you just got when you were talking about that? And I did feel it. So I was like, Hmm, Maybe this is my purpose. So in that moment, Because it had just been an ideal, And I had kind of been writing some passages. Like, For example, When I went to New Zealand, In Australia, Like I was like, Journaling because I was like, Maybe I'll put this in my book thinking that it was like something that would never happen. So I had been kind of writing. But in that moment, I was like, Okay, I'm doing this. Yeah. Yeah, I have to say, Um, Having a conversation with you and meeting you online and seeing your face and how bright you are in general. I just, It's very interesting. You just seem like someone who lives close to the soul of the world. And when people live close to the soul of the world that. You know, That is the reason for living, You know, Because you know that you are already in conversation. With reality deeply. I think people who live close to the soul of the world show up in a really effervescent way, In a way that's really authentic, And with a lot of integrity, But also shameless as they should. It's interesting to me to hear this story of yours about what happened in 2020, Because because it's almost like I'm going to use this biblical. Language. It's almost like you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, And then you came out on the other side. And that was your trial by fire. And now you're really close to the soul of the world. Yeah, That makes 100% sense because and again, I hate like using like cliche terms as well, But It woke me up because like I am a certain kind of person, But I wasn't living my life that way. And that's why I was so ridden with like the anxiety and depression and like all of these things. And now I'm living my life a different way. And I'm like, Oh, This feels so much better. I wish I was doing this before. Yeah, It's like your, Your real self. You are here now. Yeah. Yeah, That's exactly what it feels like. I'm so glad you understand. Cause sometimes I try to explain this and it feels like so woo woo. And I don't even know how to explain it. I mean, Is all about the woo. Are you kidding? Some of those stories I've heard. Yeah, You have an interesting variety of people for sure. I know. I know. I never know what I'm going to hear, Which is part of the reason I love it. It's, It's always a surprise, Which makes me happy. I mean, It usually makes them happy to thank goodness. So it all works out in the end. Well, I'm, I am sorry that you had to go through that. I mean, I'm sorry that you felt that way. I'm sorry that I don't know, I think there are times in our lives when we can feel this feeling of, I mean, What's the point of it all? I mean, Especially, You know, I graduated from college and worked at a corporation for a couple of years. And I just, I was like, I literally don't understand my life. I do not understand this nine to five or eight to five grind. Like this cannot be my life. It cannot. In some visceral part of me, After two and a half years, I was like, I got to get the F out of here. I mean, This is, This will kill me. And so I stayed in corporate America for 20 years. Yeah. Well, I just, I had this, I was like, Oh, I knew, I knew I could see my future. And it was so gray. It was gray. And I just thought, I want to be in the world. I want to be in the world. I want to be meeting people. I want to, You know, And, And frankly, Quite honestly, To put it out there, I moved to Bellingham, Washington, Lived there for about two, Two and a half years. Um, Those were some of the darkest years of my life because well, One year, Year I made $12, 000. I don't even know how I paid rent and ate. I have no idea. I have no idea to this day how I lived and made it through except that I was young and in my 20s. And I don't even know what I was thinking. But I mean, I, I think back to those days. And it's, I'm like, I am actually shocked that I survived. Because it was, You know, I was working in a bar, And it was like a little crazy. And, You know, You're in your 20s. And you're like, I'm gonna drink some more, You know? I mean, It just, Sometimes I look back and I'm like, Okay, I mean, Some angel came in and like saved me because that's all, That's the only explanation I have for the fact that I'm still alive. Um. . . But again, Like also some of those memories I wouldn't get rid of, But they were dark. You know, I thought, I'm like, I'm going to go out in the world. And then I ended up working in a bar and I worked for a nonprofit making no money. And it's like, Is this what life is really like? What does it look like to survive in the world? So it's, It's not like everything's hunky dory all at once. And I'm sure you can, You know that, Right? Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, It took a lot to pull myself out of that space, Because I think people see me now, Because again, Like, So many people just assume my life is perfect, Because I live in Hawaii. And it's like, Oh, You have no idea what I've been through. And even now, Like, Yeah, I respond to things differently. But that doesn't mean I don't have challenges. But yeah, Yeah, I've seen the darkness for sure. Yeah. I mean, Let me ask you, When you look for comfort or consolation, Where do you go? Is it the waves of the ocean? Is it the nature like the ocean is my number one like that's what I prefer it's just I don't even know what it is because I used to be terrified coming from Chicago. I used to be terrified of the ocean. I was like, I don't know what's in here. I don't want to share the water with whatever else is in here. Now it's like I'm just one with the water and I love it. But even like, I guess I'm kind of a hippie. Like, I love to like ground in the grass. Like I actually have ant bites from the other day, Because I was really getting into it. So I was just like, Truly like sprawled out in the grass. And I was like, Oh my god, This feels so amazing. And I love hugging trees. So yeah, Like I think nature is my connection to source. Oh, Yeah, You know, They sell things called grounding mats. I know. Someone tried to sell one to me. And I'm like, Girl, I just go outside and lay in the grass. You're like see the grass over there, It's like literally the same thing. Although I thought of that when I was getting bit up by the ants, Because I was like, Well, Maybe if I had a grounding. But do they work? So you have one? Well, Yes. A dear friend of mine bought me one. And she's like, Try it. And I did not know that the place where I plugged it in and the place where I was staying, The outlets were not grounded. So I basically plugged it in, Got on top of it and was like, It zapped me. And I was like, I don't think this is what's supposed to happen. It was, It was like buzzing and like electrocuting me. And I was like, This is not what's supposed to happen. I was like, Is this, Is this happening to you? And she's like, I don't think, I don't think the things are grounded here. And I was like, I'll try this somewhere else. Cause this is just a little too crazy. I thought they had to be grounded. I don't know. I don't know. It was a really. . . I don't know how electricity works. Really rustic place where I was staying. So that's potentially it. I was like, This is very uncomfortable and I don't know why people like it. Oh my god, You were getting shocked, And you're like, This is what it is. I know. I was like, Laying on the ground is easier. Even if I was getting bitten by ants, It probably would have been better. There's a whole, I'm sure you know, There's a whole field of study on just walking, Just even, You don't have to lay down. You could walk on the earth. Usually I just put my feet, But that's what I mean. I was really getting into it. So I was sprawled out. But yeah, Just putting your feet on the earth. Yeah. Trees are so energetic. Like just sitting next to a tree is amazing. I actually, There's this surfer, He got a brain injury a few years ago and I watched this podcast. Episode he did it a few years ago but he was talking about recovering from his traumatic brain injury and he was talking about how he would like sit next to a tree because it just felt so good and I'm like Like I do that too. So like there's, I don't know what all the science is, But nature is amazing. Yeah, It is amazing. I used to go hiking in Portland at this place called Tryon Creek Park, And there were some massive trees in that park. And so one day I thought, I'm just gonna I found this tree where I every once in a while just go down off the path and into this hollow and sit with my back against this tree. I call it like a grandfather tree. So one day I asked it a question and it was like, It spoke so slowly. I was like, I don't know if I have, Do you, Can you speed this up a little bit? Cause I, I don't have half an hour to get whatever it is you have to tell me. And he's like, Well, Time is different for us basically is what he said. He's like, Time's different. And for me, I'm speaking quickly right now. You just are in a different time. And I was like, That actually makes sense to me. Okay. I'll chill out. Okay. I will chill out and hear what you have to say. So, Um, I'm right there with you. And I just think nature and, You know, I've obviously never surfed, But I think the more you probably surf, You know, You're talking about reading the water, What you're, What I'm hearing is that you're learning what the water has to say. I never thought of it that way. And not only that, Like when I paddle out, Like I have an ocean appreciation practice, And I actually call it an energy exchange. So I like make sure the ocean knows how appreciative I am of it. And whenever I catch a good wave, I'm always like, Oh, Thank you, Ocean. So there really is like a like reciprocation, Even though I may not always understand what the ocean is saying. It's because you're doing it right. Great. Um, Well, I'd love to ask you the main question, Which is, I would so appreciate if you'd share, You know, It could be one story, It could be two stories, Um, Of something you could have witnessed it. It doesn't necessarily have to have happened to you, But, Um, Of something magical or miraculous or even mysterious that's, That's happened in your life. Wow. Two things and they're related mysterious and magical. So a week after my dad passed away, And I wrote about this in my book, I was, And this is when I was living in Chicago and I worked from home when I lived in Chicago. So I was working from home and I smelled someone smoking and I was like, Who is smoking? And I thought it was like coming in through the hallway. Cause I lived in a condo. So there was like a hallway and I, I was the treasurer on my condo association. I was like, We cannot afford to fumigate the hallway. So I was pissed. So I was getting ready to be like, Stop smoking in the hallway. So I like fly open the door and there's nobody there. And I was like, I know I smelled someone smoking. So I walked around the corner to the elevator bank thinking they were waiting for the elevator and there was nobody there. And we only had two elevators and they were really slow. So there was no way that they had like caught the elevator in that amount of time. So I was like walking back to my condo and I'm like, I am not crazy. I know I like this, You know, When you smell something pungent and it's still stinging your nose, Like that's how it was. So I'm like, I'm not crazy. I smelled it. And I walked back to my kitchen and I was like, You know how there's a difference between someone actively smoking and then like the leftover? I was like, And like all smokers have their own distinct scent. I was smelling my dad. And at the time, It was terrifying because I was like, Oh my God, What is happening? Like I didn't like know anything about like the other realm or whatever. So that was mysterious. But, I'll fast forward, But it got to the point where I accepted that I can communicate with him on the other side of the veil, Because I write him letters every day. And. . . When my dad was alive, We were not close. Like, Growing up, He was an alcoholic, He was depressed. Like, He was just there. Like, We didn't really have a relationship. And then after college, I tried to form a relationship with him, And it just wasn't there. So my point is, We were not close at all, And we weren't even really talking in the years leading up to his death. But, Like, Now, He's, Like, My biggest protector. He's always taking care of me. Like, He's, Like, My best friend. Magical yeah, And then a few months ago. I was talking to a friend about it because I was like man This is like such a cool thing for me. And then he was like, Well, I bet that's like really healing for your dad, Too Because you're giving him the opportunity to show up for you in a way He didn't before and I never thought of it that way because I didn't think spirits would have to go through their own healing journey But I was like, Yeah, I think you're right. So I just think that's so magical that we still have this opportunity to have that father-daughter relationship, Even though it's, Like, So different than, You know, In the flesh. But I just think that's really magical, And I wish more people knew about that, Because I think a lot of people see death as, Like, This is the end, Like, It's never again, But it's just different. That is actually fascinating. I love that you're like, When you're first, You know, Experiencing this and the scent and the smell, And you're trying to figure out where it's coming from. And you're just like, I didn't believe in any of that stuff then. It sounds like there was a pretty quick turnaround time to where you're like, Oh, Well, What happened was I ended up going to a medium because I smelled him a few more times and I was like, I just couldn't handle it and I didn't know what to do. But even going to the medium, I didn't really believe in that kind of stuff. So I felt crazy. And I remember this is where I lived in Chicago and I went to her in person. I was like, Is anyone watching me? Like I was so embarrassed. I didn't want anyone to know that I was going. And so I sit down with her and first of all, She called me and which is something my dad would have called me. So that was the first thing. And then the other thing was when my mom and I went to clean out his house, Like he just had a bunch of junk and stuff, But I felt like I should have, I was like, I need to take something. So I took this sweater from his closet just to take something. And she immediately, One of the first things she said to me, She was like, What was the shirt that you took from his closet? And the only other person that would have known that was my mom. So like immediately I was like, Okay, This is a thing. And then she was also like, Yeah, Your David doesn't really believe in people like me. So I'm kind of having a hard time connecting, But I'm trying to tell him like, You're already here, So let's just do it. And I'm like, Yeah, That sounds like my dad. So it's like she immediately just fed me these things where I was convinced like, Yeah, That's him. Oh my gosh, Wow. You know, It's it's so interesting. We're having this conversation because a former guest on my podcast, Who I'm still, You know, Friends with on Facebook, He just recently lost the love of his life. His long-term, Decades-long best friend, Partner, Husband, He just lost him. And it was actually quite quick. He'd been fighting cancer for a little over a year, And then just things snowballed. And I was actually very surprised when he died so quickly, Because he basically came home, And then when a couple of days was gone, And it's very interesting. You know, He, Of course, This just happened a few weeks ago. He is devastated. He's broken, But he was sharing his grief on Facebook and telling stories about, You know, What it looks like, Like his partner's shoes are still by the front door where he left them when he came home from the hospital and all this stuff. But twice, Twice he said, And I believe it. I believe this because I have, I have witnessed my own things that are inexplicable. That his partner came to him and audibly you know, One day. Comforted him and said it's okay. He could hear him. He was in the room. And then a few days later, Called him by a nickname and said something else. And he's just writing it and he's like, These things are happening and I don't know how, But he's still here. And I just think that's fascinating. It's fascinating, And it's such a- It's wild. It is wild. It's scary when it's happening, Because you're like- It just seems like something out of a movie. But until it happens to you, Because now when people tell me stories like that, Like don't even bat an eye, I'm like, Oh yeah, Of course they're communicating with you. Yeah, I mean, Okay, So let me ask you, Has this opened you up to even greater mysteries in our reality? Yes, But it could be like in a negative way. Because I'm like on the conspiracy side of TikTok. And so I don't there's like some stuff I'm starting to believe because it's like, Like, Well, If there's a different reality in the spirit world, Why couldn't there be different realities in the human world? So yeah, Totally convinced on like the conspiracy theories, But it does open my mind to it because that's how I used to feel about the other side of the veil. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. I didn't even know there was like a darker conspiracy side of tick tock. See, That's how I don't know how I landed on there. And then of course, Once you watch one thing, It starts feeding you more. So totally. You're like, Why can't I? Get back to dogs wearing diapers. Like actually, I got I did get back to dogs recently. So okay, Good. That's a good sign. Good. Good. Yeah, Because, You know, That's been one of the things that has happened for me is, It's been a really slow introduction over a couple of decades of just strange and inexplicable happenings. And, You know, And in fact, One of the happenings, And I've talked about it on the show before, Where my partner at the time also witnessed it. And, You know, We were both like, Hello, What just happened? So I knew that I wasn't hallucinating. You know, And it was disturbing enough that he was like, Okay, Let's never talk about that ever again. It was like, Okay, Interesting. Yeah. So, You know, And it wasn't anything, You know, I think sometimes we're allowed to get a glimpse behind the curtain. Oh, Yeah. Yeah. And so and I think those glimpses are meant to help us understand that this reality and this creation is far more beautiful and vast than we can ever imagine. But it's also more intentional. And it's also more like it has our backs, And it wants to succeed. And it wants the good for us. But it also wants to remind each of us that we're here. I really believe this. Our job here is to figure out how to lift others up, Like every single person. That's our job. Like you should just, As part your life, How can you lift others up? I mean. . . Across the board. Yeah. A lot of people don't get that memo. I'm hoping to like, You know, Have a wider distribution for that memo, But we'll see. But I think, You know, That's what makes it exciting to wake up in the morning. You never know that day when you're going to have some sort of liminal experience or, Or you get to glimpse even further behind the curtain to the mystery that's all around us. And I think that is exciting and hopeful. So I love that. Yeah, I think you and I are in similar missions because I'm of the viewpoint you're either contributing to raising the vibration of the universe or you're contributing to all the fear and hate and anger that's going on. So I'd rather contribute to the good stuff. I love that. I always say that fear and hate is like the lazy man's way of being in this world. You know, It's so lazy. It's like. So lazy. I mean, Loving people is hard. There's no like independent thinking. It's like, Oh, If you tell me this, Then okay. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I don't know why I want to work harder than most and love most people and raise the vibration, But I'm here for it. So I mean, I think you are too. Yeah, I am. 100%. Especially with that gorgeous, Quite honestly, That gorgeous wall behind you. I'm sorry, But you have an artist's eye. Has anyone ever told you that? You know what's interesting in my transition, Because I used to live my life a certain way and now I live it a different way, I get a lot of compliments like, Oh, You're so creative. And I never really looked at myself that way. Um, No one's ever told me I have an artist eye. I haven't gotten that specific compliment. So thank you. Well, It's so beautiful. Listen to how I talk about myself. My side hobby is fingernail art. Like this is just something I do like as a hobby on the side. I'm not gonna lie. I have been looking at your fingernails. And I've been kind of just grooving on them since we started. But I also think, You know, I mean, Don't you have myriad numbers of eyeglasses? Oh, Yeah. Okay. So see, That's also, That is also an artistic thing. I mean, Really? Oh my God. Yes. Are you kidding? I mean, Because what you're doing is falling in love with all the different iterations of what an eyeglass can look like. I mean, Some of your pictures are so whimsical and fun and it's almost like you can express parts of yourself by the different glasses that you wear. I kind of do that because when I wake up in the, Cause I used to try to match my glasses to my outfits, But now it's, Like, What mood am I in? And that's how I pick out my glasses. 100% Yeah. I mean, I mean, With the glasses and the amazing earrings and the gorgeous red hair, You're just like, You're so vivacious and vibrant. I mean, I don't know. It's amazing. See, I just I feel like I have a certain identity in my head and I need to be more open minded about it because yeah, I like that like artistic and I do and I think I suppress that side of me because I think there's other ways where I can be expressing that and I'm just not. Well, I mean, Who do you think you are? Like a corporate person? There's benefits to that, But that's not who I am. Yeah, I mean, I think you're. . . Super fun and running in slippers is friggin chaotic. So if you can marry chaos with fun. I think you've got a winning combination. That's just my opinion. I would marry chaos with fun and I would be bouncing off the walls and then falling on the ground but you know in an ideal world I actually wouldn't get hurt but I mean you just I think you I don't know if you have the capacity for being like embracing the chaos. And then bring in some fun. Because you know, I always think fun describes my surfing style. Okay, Is a lot of longboarders, Their number one priority when surfing is looking good on the board. My number one priority is riding the wave as close to the beach as possible. So sometimes that means like flailing my arms and whatever. So I've been like criticized for my style. And I'm like, My style's just chaotic, And that's how it is, But I will ride the longest wave out of anyone here. God, Did you tell that person? Suck it! Because I would have. At the time, There's like, Oh, This is like a whole story within itself. There's like a surfing hierarchy. And at the time he was pretty high and I was pretty low. So I didn't stand up for myself, Whereas now I would. I mean those, The other thing I don't do is surround myself with people like that. Like I am very much all about. Oh my God, Are you fun? You can hang out, You know? Oh my gosh. Are you like a little zany trickstery? Come on over. We joined the club. The people who take things so seriously and I can't, I'm like, Do you even have a clue why, Why we're alive? Like, Do you? It's not that. I've come to the conclusion, Like some people are just so miserable with their own lives and have to take it out on their, On other people, Because I know who this person is now and looking at him, Through the lens of me now, There was no reason for him to say that to me. And I was like, He was just like. Taking something he was going through on me, Taking it out on me. Yay. God, Ugh. Do you have a group of women that you belong to? Because I could totally see you leading a group of powerful women. I do, But I don't really fit in with them. So I'm trying to figure that out. OK. Maybe we can start a group. We should start a group. I know. I'm meeting with a new group of women on Thursday night, And I'm like a little nervous, But we'll see what happens. Yeah, What happens? I'm in my sloppy phase of life. So it's like, If it doesn't work out, I'm like, It's okay. Just like, Slide on out so nobody will even notice you're gone and it's like okay but be polite be polite as well so um I also was going to tell you that, And this is not going to be in the podcast, But my mother, I love her, But she also rode my ass like. When I was little. I mean, When I was growing up, I should say, I mean, And it was, It was constant, Like my nails were either too long, Or I was wearing too much makeup, Or I wasn't wearing enough makeup, Or my hair looked bad, Or I mean, It was, It was psychologically so exhausting. That one, Especially to your point, Because mine was the same way where it's like, You're too fat, You're too skinny, This is too much too little. So it's like, I could never do anything. Right? Yeah. And it Yeah, It is, I moved away from my family when I was about nine. 24. Or so. And I've never gone back. I've just never gone back. I mean, I visited them every once in a while, But I would go seven years without seeing my family. Really? I just, Yeah, I think just growing up in that family was just so exhausting for me that I needed years to rest and not be around them. So I got coop any sort of identity and whatever. Sometimes you just have to leave family behind for a while so you can figure yourself out. I mean, The one nice thing, Although now, You know, With everything we know about the gut biome and everything, I started getting terrible, Terrible cystic acne on my face. And my father had had bad acne and it scarred his face. And my mother was like, No, That's not happening. So she took me to the dermatologist and I got put on like heavy dose of antibiotics for like four years. Oh, Whoa. So we're supposed to do that. Yeah, Yeah. We did not know that then. We did not know that. And so, You know, I feel like it's like the rest. I mean, Then my skin was like, Amazing. But then my gut was like, We're all dead in here. Now I've been trying to heal it ever since. But now we know, Right? Now we know. So that was the one time she did something really wonderful that really helped me out a lot. Because it was actually starting to hurt. My face like hurt me. Really adolescent acne is like no joke. So I know. Well, See, And my mom would just criticize me and not help me with it. Oh my god. I'm so sorry. I don't mothers and daughters are so interesting and also weird. You know, There's a part of me like I get it. You know, She had her own shortcomings and didn't know what she was doing. But on the other hand. . . What makes her think it's okay to criticize my face? Yeah, I don't know. There's some things I don't get. And I haven't talked to her in three years, Because the criticism and all of that continued into adulthood. So it just got to the point where it's like, We're not doing this anymore. Yeah. And she didn't really understand what that. So I was like, Okay, I just need a break from you. Do you think it's a Is it a cultural thing for her? Like, Did she come from a culture where that was? I mean, We're white. I don't know. Okay. I mean, I just always like, Like I've met women who grew up in Russia. And their moms were all like, Like all the time or German, You know, Very severe, Like this. No. Yes. Blah, Blah, Blah. But I love that you're like, Now we're white. It's funny, Because I'm a minority in Hawaii, So sometimes I feel like that means something, But in the context of what we're talking about now, It's reluctant. Um. . . I hope you know that. Do you know that? People like you. So thank you so much. I totally enjoyed our conversation. Yes, I had a feeling I would. But well, I saw your picture and I was like, Okay, This looks like fun. Because they were sparkled. But also, You're just on your profile, You're so unabashedly yourself. And that's very rare. It's very rare. It used to be like that. And I thank you for appreciating it. Because when I did step into this version of me, There were people who are like, Oh, I like this. But trust me, There are people who do not like it. So that was also a thing I had to learn how to adjust to. Because, Yeah, It's like, Okay, There are people who will hate me. And that's okay. Well, I mean, I think, You know, There are people who are threatened by anyone who's living an authentic life or life with integrity. Because once you start doing that, And once you start living close to the soul of the world, You kind of get illuminated by an inner light that is really intoxicating for some people. And really makes you it's like a superpower. But then there are a bunch of people who aren't there yet. And it makes them crazy. What it is. Yeah. And that's actually why I ended up leaving corporate America. Because first of all, I already was feeling super disconnected from it. But I have this manager, She hated me. And like, She would just flip a crazy switch when she talked to me. And I'm like, I just cannot do this. Hmm, I was just talking to someone the other day and I was like, Why can't leaders be grown up and not- Yeah, She acted like a total child. Why can't we have good leaders? I'm like, I just don't understand. Like there are leadership school, You can go to school for leadership for a year or two, Just learn how to be a leader. But I think it goes to your point that you made earlier, Which some people actually prefer to be in the mire and the muck and the disappointment and the anger or the, I don't know, Swamp of sadness. It is easier. I like how you described it as lazy because it is easy, Right? You don't have to take accountability for how you're living your life. You don't have to, When you live in the truth, I go against the grain all the time. Then it's uncomfortable. Yeah. So I get it. Yeah. It's, It's, You remind those people of everything that they're not doing. I definitely want to keep in touch with you for deal that is happening that is happening when I take the slow boat to New Zealand. It's going to stop off in Hawaii so. That's happening. If you come, You have to go surfing. I'm just kidding. You know, When we went to the Oregon coast and did this bachelorette party. And we were like surfing and I was not surfing. Okay. Let's just not even say that. That sounds cold. So I don't. Oh my God. It's so cold. We're in wetsuits. And then, You know, The waves are like. Three feet high. They're so small. They're not even surfing in those, But all of the douche canoes who just think that they're like totally superior and amazing, You know, We're out there having fun and being silly and having a great time. We got yelled at by real surfers for getting in their way for bugging them for just, You know, They were, And I'm like, I, Is that even a way I was like, Is that a wave? I don't even know what, Why are you getting angry? Like, This is a joke. And it's like, Yeah, If it's like an epic day, Fine. You can get mad at me or whatever, But like most waves are not even worth getting mad about. Especially if they're freezing cold and only a few feet high. Well, You know, And the area where we were. Surfing also is known for having orcas. You know, Stake people for. Oh, So it's dangerous. Yeah. I thought we were safe. Well, They always make sure to know where the seal colonies are, Because if they're close to shore, They'll be like, Do not surf, Because that means the the. I guess you could say any sort of thing that it lives in the water and feeds on seals. It's like not a good idea to go in. I guess that makes sense. So they're always like, Oh, The the seal colonies are five miles away up the coast. So we're OK. But still, I was like, I'm going to stay close to shore. So. I know. And that's, It used to bother me about surfing, But I'm kind of at the point where it's like, If I get, If I die by a shark attack, That's how I die. I'm not going to not surf. You know what? The really ironic thing about the shark attack is I just think this is so precious because how are the sharks to know? I love that when they did this study and they said, Well, The shark isn't when they bite you, They're just testing to see how much blubber you have. And if it's like, Yeah, So they've scientifically they've discovered that when a shark bites, You know, A surfer, On their leg. I specifically said surfer. Yeah, The bite is like to just test. But it rips off limbs. No, I know. The unfortunate thing is that the teeth are so sharp that it usually ends up killing the person. Also, That's not even their, Like, Major bite. That's insane. No, They're just testing. And so, Um, You know, That's why the majority of surfers live because the sharks are just taking like a tiny little test. They want to see if it's a worthy expenditure of their energy. Like, Is there going to be a lot of blubber on this thing? So that I would like to think since I don't have a lot of blubber, You're going to be fine. You're fine. OK, That's another positive thing to keep in mind. Well, I don't have a lot of rubber to test, So. And that's it. No false advertising here. Angie is hilarious, Intelligent, And so very compassionate about how to be in our lives and survive in our lives and heal and bring beauty for others, All the while with an incredible, Incredible sense of humor. I need to thank Angie for being on the show and being such a great guest and being so open and vulnerable and sharing the stories of her life. Thanks everyone for listening. You have no idea how much it means to me that the podcast is being heard by so many people and is making people happy and reminding them that this world is indeed a beautiful place. Thank you for listening. And here's my one request. Be like Angie. Be fierce. Do not give up. Jump out of a helicopter into the ocean. No, No, No, No. You don't have to do that, But do things that test you, That might scare you. That might challenge you. I mean, I am one for thinking about something and then getting scared and not doing it. I am absolutely that person. But then I remind myself that I actually walked across France, 500 miles, Doing the Camino by myself, Not speaking the language, And then suddenly enrolling in that Spanish class doesn't seem too scary. So remind yourself how brave and courageous you are, Just like Angie. Remind yourself that you're brilliant and funny, Just like Angie, And that you, You absolutely can handle whatever comes your way, And that you, Too, Are always ready for the adventure.