Episode Eight: The Interview-Christine

A few weeks after the Pulse Massacre, Christine found herself working as a chaplain in a hospital. The encounter she had there changed her life as well as her patient's life forever. Find out how the simple practices of conversation and sharing created a space for a healing miracle.

Transcript

So I was on call overnight and I got a call from the nurses who said,

We've got a patient,

His name is Robert.

He came in with chest pains and shortness of breath and we've run every test and his heart is fine,

But he does not wanna go home.

He seems very anxious.

He says there's unresolved things and he's very worried.

And the nurses basically said to me,

There's nothing medically that we can do.

I think he needs you.

And I was like,

Well,

No pressure there.

I am just logistically,

I identify as a woman.

My pronouns are she and hers,

Although I'm comfortable with they and them.

I am a mother,

I am a wife,

I am a lesbian,

I am a minister,

I am a Unitarian Universalist.

I am a pet owner of two dogs and four cats.

I am a unapologetic,

Progressive,

Liberal.

I am a lover of nature and hopefully I like to think of myself as a champion for social justice and equity in the world.

I think my parents,

I call myself a Protestant mutt because my parents liked church,

But they weren't attached to any particular denomination.

They were not attached to any church.

They were attached to any church.

And I think that's what I'm really looking for.

I think that's what I'm really looking for.

I think my parents liked church,

But they weren't attached to any particular denomination.

So I say that I was baptized Episcopalian.

I was confirmed United Methodist.

We lived overseas for a while and we became members of the Anglican Church because that was the only church that was allowed in Spain.

I went to a Lutheran college and my mom made the joke once and I was like,

I don't know where I'm from.

And like that just was okay.

So I don't,

And my family wasn't really religious,

But I always liked church.

But for me,

The most religious experience and the one that really defined my theology was the most was the YMCA camp that I went to as a kid starting when I was six.

The epitome of church for me was chapel in the trees,

Sitting at morning chapel around in a circle or sitting in the chapel at camp,

Singing songs,

Sharing about kindness and basic decency on a level that kids could understand.

And still when I think about theology and life and church,

That church in the woods is the closest that I've ever gotten to that ideal as far as community,

Connection with the divine and working with people to create really magical experiences.

So camp,

Camp was it.

We also,

My family were big campers.

So that's what we did all summer.

As soon as school was out,

My mom would pack us up in the pop-up.

We would go across to Michigan where my grandparents were,

And we camped all summer.

So living in a tent in the trees,

That's always where my most spiritual,

At-home,

Relaxed moments were.

And even now,

I get one Sunday a month off as a minister,

And every single one is spent camping.

Like that's what fills my spirit,

What fills my soul.

And my theology,

My personal theology,

I'm a Unitarian Universalist,

But my personal theology is very earth-based.

It's goddess,

Female,

It's Mother Nature,

Gaia,

The energy that changes the seasons,

That fills us with oxygen,

Gives us water and nutrients on all the metaphorical levels.

So it's always been about nature.

And that was really my mom.

My mom was big on camping and family and all of that,

And was modeling strong female power.

Even,

I don't think she would have named it that way,

But she was.

She was a goddess.

She was.

She was a goddess.

And she was creating magical spaces for us to discover our own goddess power,

If you will.

In order to understand the story,

You've got to have a little bit of context for it.

And there's two huge pieces of context.

One is,

As part of the process to become a Unitarian Universalist minister,

I had to do a semester of chaplaincy training.

And for me,

It was in a hospital,

And I chose to do it where I lived,

Which was in Orlando,

Florida.

And the only hospital program that had the training chaplaincy was the Seventh-day Adventist program,

Because it was a Seventh-day Adventist hospital.

So you,

First of all,

Just kind of say,

If I wanted to stay home,

Which I did,

I had to,

As a female minister,

And a progressive liberal religion,

Was going into a very conservative hospital system where the paid chaplains were all Seventh-day Adventists.

So that's the first part of the story.

The second part of the story that's so important is I was in Orlando,

Florida,

And I started my chaplaincy on June 13th,

2016.

So if you know dates,

The Pulse massacre that happened in Orlando,

Florida,

Was on Sunday,

June 12th,

2016.

So this is,

You know,

This was not just a incidental happening.

This was my club for my community.

I am a lesbian,

Was very familiar with the clubs and the shows that were going on down there in my town,

And it was a very,

Just a really awful,

Awful time.

So my first day of chaplaincy,

I'm walking in and seeing patients when there are people who were victims of the massacre that are in that hospital system.

In addition,

You've got everyone around the country,

Around the world,

Affected by this and kind of looking at how we are treating our LGBTQ folks,

Similar to the awakening that we're seeing with the death of George Floyd,

Where it's like,

Wait,

This is wrong.

And there was also a real reckoning that was happening with reconciling religion and our treatment of the LGBTQ community.

So because there were family members that were not picking up their children's bodies,

Because that's how their children came out,

Was to die at Pulse.

But their religious beliefs were so strong that there were two bodies that were not even picked up because of the homophobia that had been instilled by religion.

And it's really notable to say that it was Latin night at Pulse that night,

And most of the people were brown or black,

And so it was a very intersectional event,

But it was very personal.

And I walked to Chaplaincy,

Right?

And my cohort didn't know that I was a lesbian.

My supervisor did,

But didn't say anything.

I was in shock.

I was in grief.

My church community had activated,

The whole church had turned into a counseling center.

We had turned it around immediately,

Opened it up,

Everyone was bringing water,

And I was starting in the hospital and seeing patients.

So that context is really everything in this story.

The story I wanted to tell you is a visit that I had with a gentleman,

And we'll call him Robert.

That's not his real name,

And I've changed some of the details so it's not too personal,

But it's broad enough.

And I was about maybe five weeks in.

Pulse was still there,

But it wasn't on the news every day,

But it was still very present for folks.

And there had already been a lot of conversations of people who wanted to talk to the chaplain because they were watching the news 24-7,

And they wanted to reconcile this.

And I don't present as gay,

And I think there's a lot of people have the assumption that when the chaplain comes into their Seventh-day Adventist hospital room,

That they would never occur to them that I was gay.

So I was on call overnight,

And I got a call from the nurses who said,

We've got a patient,

His name is Robert.

He came in with chest pains and shortness of breath,

And we've run every test,

And his heart is fine,

But he does not want to go home.

He seems very anxious.

He says there's unresolved things,

And he's very worried.

And the nurses basically said to me,

There's nothing medically that we can do.

I think he needs you.

And I was like,

Well,

No pressure there.

Like,

You know,

He's got chest pains and all of this,

And he's like,

So come on in,

Chaplain,

And can you fix him?

And I was like,

All right,

Sure,

Great,

Wonderful.

OK,

So I walk in,

And he was probably in his mid-60s white man,

Kind eyes.

And we started talking,

And he just needed to get some burdens off of his chest.

You know,

His wife was sick.

There was some money concerns.

There was this and this and this and this,

And he just started making a whole list,

And I could just see this really heavy weight and anxiety on him.

So I ran out to the nurses' station,

And I immediately went into,

In my previous life,

I was a brainstorming consultant,

And I did brainstorming.

And I'm like,

OK,

We need something tangible for this man to let go of.

So I ran out to the nurses' station,

And I asked them for a stack of paper.

And I came in,

And I said,

Robert,

OK,

We're going to write down each one of these,

Pull them apart,

And then my thought is that we can tear each one,

And you're going to crumple it up and throw it across the room,

Or I can take them,

And I can burn them later.

Turn it into a ritual where he could pull them apart and then release them in some way.

And he was like,

OK,

Very confused.

Women's ritual was probably not the thing that he was used to.

He was raised Catholic,

And I didn't do anything like that in the Catholic church.

So I was like,

OK.

And then I was like,

Well,

Let's write this down.

And he's like,

Well,

Can you,

I don't want to throw them away because I want to share them with my wife later.

I'm like,

Great,

OK,

We're just going to make a list.

And we got about halfway through the list,

And we got into his brother-in-law.

And we got that they had loaned the brother-in-law some money.

They had done some things,

Some things that he wasn't quite sure about,

Had had some challenges about,

And he kept going back to the brother-in-law.

And I was like,

OK,

What's going on there?

And they had just recently found out that the brother-in-law was gay.

And this man was really not struggling with the fact that they had had money concerns or that there were trust issues.

He,

The more that we dug into it,

It was that he was gay.

And he was really,

He was disgusted by it.

He just couldn't reconcile it.

And it was eating him up inside.

It was just eating him up.

And,

You know,

I have a little context here where I can say,

Oh,

I recognize this.

I know what this is.

And I immediately knew that it's like I was meant to be on call tonight.

And I was meant,

He came in on the night that I was in call.

I didn't have anything else.

It was 10 o'clock at night.

It's like,

Let's go here.

And in the meantime,

He had slowly reached onto my hand.

By this point,

He was holding my hand.

And he was squeezing really hard.

And I remember it because I had just gotten this brand new engagement ring,

And I could feel him squeezing my pinky onto the corner of this new ring that it wasn't used to.

And it's like there was something there,

And we kept on peeling it.

And eventually,

He got to the point where he's like,

I just,

The act of sex disgusts me,

And I don't know what to do with that.

I was like,

Okay,

Great,

You've named it.

Let's explore that.

Where does that come from?

And we talked more about religion.

And by this point,

There had already been tears on both of our points and on both of our sides.

And he got to a moment,

He's like,

I just,

I think some of it is I've just never met a gay person before.

I don't think in my life I've ever met anyone who was gay.

So then I've,

You know,

I've got a moment there,

Right?

And the thing that you learn about chaplaincy is it is never about you,

Like it's not about me.

I am here as a tool and an instrument to help people reconcile their religious things or their trauma of being in the hospital or the pain.

But in that moment,

I knew that I had an opportunity to have an aha because this was a man who had already shared some of his deepest things.

He had already said,

I've never even told my wife these things.

He had shared with me things that he had never shared.

We had already shed tears together.

And he was saying,

I've never met anyone gay.

And I said,

Robert,

You actually have.

He's like,

I just don't think I have.

And he,

I held his hand and I said,

Robert,

I'm gay.

And he immediately started crying.

And then immediately he felt terrible.

He felt so terrible.

He's like,

I'm so sorry.

I am so sorry.

I hope that you didn't say,

I didn't say anything that offended you.

And immediately I was like,

No,

I was right here with you.

You,

We were sharing our hearts and our souls and I'm sharing because I trust you.

And I feel like you trust me.

And he just held on.

He's like,

You are,

He's like,

You are the most beautiful,

Caring person I've ever met.

I was thinking earlier that you were the angel that came into my hospital room and I'm like,

And I can be,

And I can be gay as well.

Like I am,

I am gay.

And at that point I showed him my ring and I told him how I had just gotten engaged and that I was madly in love with a woman and that there is way more to our relationship than,

You know,

Just a sexual act or even just a attraction.

And we got the chance to talk about how my life and my relationship is so similar to his real life and relationship with his wife.

And that it's not all about a sexual act and that if you don't,

If that sexual act is not attractive to you,

Then that's probably not your sexuality.

Right.

And you don't have to do it.

And he just kept crying and he just kept holding my hand.

And then I was just checking in on him and how are you feeling?

He's like,

I feel totally different.

Like my heart doesn't hurt anymore.

I've got this list that I can share with my wife.

I feel like I put it somewhere and I,

And I have changed how I've,

How I've thought about things.

And I could tell he was getting tired.

This is that we had been in together for about an hour and a half at that point.

He had four pages of the list of all of his anxieties that he was going to take home.

He couldn't wait to share it with his wife.

And I gave him several long hugs and he just was,

Thank you.

And that was it.

The next morning I stopped in right before I knew he was going to get discharged.

And I checked in to see how he was.

And he's like,

I slept better than I ever have.

I feel so great.

You were my angel.

And can I call you?

You know,

Can I have contact with you because I might need other things.

And I said,

No,

That's actually not how it works.

You know,

I come into your life here in the hospital and then.

I release you and you go out and do these things.

He's like,

But what if I need other people to talk to you?

And it's like,

There are other people.

Now find a minister,

Find a therapist,

Find there will be other people,

But I told him and I know he knew it.

That you will always have a place in my heart.

Like a deep in redeeming in humanity place.

And he had no idea the rest of the story and the stuff that I had gone through and how hard it was to be in a chaplain in that hospital that summer.

And how.

The things that were said to me and the way that I wasn't understood or valued as a minister,

As a woman,

As a lesbian.

But in that moment,

I knew.

That I had made that connection and it was spiritual and deep.

And we had shared vulnerability between each other and it was Holy.

There is no way.

That I could have been a man of faith.

And I was not able to have any.

Else to explain it.

Besides it was Holy and sacred.

And it changed both of us forever.

It has shaped me in a lot of ways and compassion.

Understanding and knowing that we always have room to grow.

To know that.

Our stories are tied with our physical self.

And that one person's connection with another person can change their life.

And that's what I was able to do.

And that's what I was able to do.

And that's what I was able to do.

And he wanted absolution in a way.

And I told him that I'm just not,

That's not what kind of minister,

Like,

I can't just absolve.

Your brother-in-law you.

That's not how it works.

But together we can struggle with it and look at it.

But I think the appointment with destiny,

I think you're right on.

Like there's no other chaplain in that hospital that could have done that work.

And.

There is no other patient that would have had that kind of impact on me that summer.

So it was a mutual,

It was a mutual.

Mutual gift.

What's really.

I mean,

I think what's really beautiful about.

Your conversation and encounter with him is that it was completely unexpected.

It's not what you thought was going to happen when you were walking in the room.

But I also think it's fascinating that your coworkers use the language.

He needs you.

Yeah.

And I,

There,

I mean,

That is a testament to the relationship that nurses and chaplains have developed.

You know,

There,

There definitely is.

The opportunity and that trust to say,

I'm not going to do this anymore.

I'm not going to do this anymore.

I'm not going to do this anymore.

And I think that definitely is.

The opportunity and that trust to say.

First of all,

Nurses are the most amazing human beings on earth.

And what they do and how they care spiritually and emotionally for people is,

Is amazing.

So this was a nurse who had a lot of insight and could see that.

And so I think it's really interesting to see that.

And I think it's really interesting to see that.

The nurses are very,

Very generous with chaplains to know what they did,

How they could help.

I think some nurses,

If not all of them are very attuned to sorrow and grief in people.

And so can tell when someone needs to just talk.

And have a conversation and maybe unburden themselves.

I think the thing that was really interesting that I learned over the summer was how to read a room when you walked in.

And it was a really interesting experience.

And I think that's really interesting to see that.

And it,

Every room.

Looks exactly the same.

But when you walk in,

You can get the sense whether there is deep grief in there or deep depression,

Or there's a deep pain in there.

And you don't know what their diagnosis is.

You don't know what their mental state is.

You don't know what their resources is.

Are you don't know.

Any of that to be able to just respond.

And sometimes respond with a face.

That's not horrified.

Right.

You know,

Our actions are comments that is like,

Wait,

What?

What.

I don't know what to do here.

But I think,

Especially in that traumatic summer,

I think that there's a sense of.

You know,

How do humans change things when there is so much.

Heartbreak and devastation and hate.

And that can just.

Kill 49 people in a nightclub as they're dancing.

Ironically,

Let's bring it back to,

To,

To dancing.

I think that that was a real,

A real moment for me to be able to be a part of the world.

By being open and vulnerable.

And sharing our stories and being.

Open to the possibility that we can impact each other.

And that.

Was a reassurance and a reconnecting with my face that I really needed.

That summer.

It also gave me.

It gave me confidence that maybe.

I'm not going to be able to be in this.

You know,

I've got,

I've got enough what it takes to create these magical moments.

And I really needed that.

That summer.

As well.

So,

You know,

In a denomination that is very human based.

This human interaction was sacred.

And I think that's scary.

Because I think a lot of people in this world walk around.

Being what other people want them to be because our society demands that in some ways,

And then here you are.

And you're having a conversation and it's a very vulnerable moment.

It's a little bit of a scary moment and you're just there and you're present and you're you.

And.

That's disarming for a lot of people.

And I think that's what I was really looking forward to.

And I think that's what I was looking forward to.

And I think that's what I was looking forward to.

He was him too.

I knew he was fully in his.

Core place.

And I was in my core place.

You know,

We weren't in neither of us were in an overly,

Like that defeated place.

You know,

Where it's like,

Oh,

You know,

I'm just so awful or in the,

You know,

Inflated place that isn't really real.

I mean,

It's like,

I have to say,

I'm not a fan of.

You know,

It's like,

You know,

There's a lot of scary vulnerability,

Like,

Please don't misinterpret that.

It's like,

Oh yeah.

And I just walked in there and said,

I'm gay.

And,

You know,

Rainbows shot out.

You know,

I whipped out my weather,

My feather boa.

You know,

It was terrifying.

It was terrifying.

That's awesome that they let you carry a feather boa into chaplaincy.

I think that's,

That's what I'm looking for.

This has been episode eight.

Bite sized blessings.

The podcast all about the magic and spirit that surrounds us.

If only we open our eyes to it.

Or the longer interviews.

We're grateful you're here.

I need to thank the Reverend Christine dance for sharing her story today,

As well as the creators of the music used.

Sasha and Alexander Nakarada and Raphael.

For complete attribution.

Please see the bite sized blessings website at bite sized blessings.

Com.

And remember that's bite spelled B Y T E.

On the website,

You can find links to other episodes as well as to books and music.

I think we'll lift and inspire you.

Thank you for listening.

And here's my one request.

Be like Christine.

Be your authentic self and person by person.

Change the world.

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