Intersection Of Flesh & Spirit: Radiance Sutras Verse 157

During this session, we discuss Verse 157 of the Insight Verses from the 'Radiance Sutras', a translation of the Vijanana Bhairava Tantra by Lorin Loche. A meditation follows our discussion.

These sessions are recorded every week, and all are welcome.

Transcript

So today we are reading from the Radiant Sutras.

This is a beautiful book by Lauren Roche and it's an interpretation of the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra.

And the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra is this beautiful tantric text that essentially helps us deeply experience our divinity.

And not our divinity like imagining yourself like I am a human person and the divine is flowing through me like some seventh chakra orgasm or something.

Like I think that's sometimes how we imagine feeling the divine within us.

But the truth is it's so much more subtle than that.

That it's almost like in your very cells you know that you are a divine person.

You are divinity incarnate.

That inside these magical cells that make us up,

Like we are a miracle,

Right?

Like this is unfathomable who we are,

What we are.

And that every cell of us is actually this divine spark of light.

And even then when I say divine spark of light I'm still not even saying something that we know what I'm saying.

Well what does divine mean?

What does God?

What is Brahman?

What is Atman?

What is this?

They're all just funny sounds I'm making with my mouth.

But what does it even mean?

And this is kind of the point that there's this physical world that we can touch,

Taste,

Smell,

Hear.

And then there is the subtle world,

The eternal world,

The expansive infinite world that we can't count and we can't prove exists in a court of law.

But something inside of us knows that there's more.

We know that there's more purpose in everything we do.

We know that when we close our eyes and we ask for help,

Guidance comes,

Or circumstances change,

Or what we might call a miracle could happen.

And even if things don't change or you don't get the message right away,

There's something in you that knows there's more out there.

Oftentimes it's because we've had an experience.

You know,

I once read a book called,

I think it was called Tantric Quest,

Maybe by Daniel Odier maybe.

But it's a story of him going off to find the tantrica in the woods,

You know,

And going through all the perils to get there and proving himself and blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And he finally gets there and he's standing,

Talking to the tantrica and she looks at him and says,

What was your first moment of awakening?

And he said,

I don't know.

And she said,

You wouldn't be here unless you had one.

There was an experience somewhere in your past that made you realize that there's more going on in this world.

These are the things that,

So it's almost like this belief in the divine,

God,

Brahman,

Eternal source,

Spirit,

Whatever.

It doesn't come from the mind,

Because the mind is a computer,

Right?

The brain is just,

It just takes input in and whatever it can identify and count,

That it believes is true.

So we don't intellectually seek the divine.

It's only when we've experienced it.

And it could be something as simple as sitting and watching a sunset and the colors are just too bright.

There's something about the way the colors land on the lake,

Or even right now,

Here in Canada,

The fall leaves are stunning.

Like I've done a lot of driving over the last week and I'll be driving along and then just completely taken away by this forest of the brightest reds and the brightest yellows and the oranges and then the green evergreens in between.

And it's just breathtaking,

Like the blue sky behind.

And yesterday I was driving home and the colors of the trees,

I'm driving through this countryside and there's little farms all over and then little areas of forest all colored in every color you can imagine.

And then I look up and there's two rainbows coming down into the,

And there's a part of you that just goes,

You can't compute it,

Like the beauty is just too much for my little brain.

And it changes something inside of us,

Just changes something that is indescribable.

And these are the moments that make us know that,

No,

There's more going on here.

And even if I can't describe it,

It doesn't mean it isn't real.

So there are these experiences we have that we cannot explain.

And this point is actually very important for our reading today.

And from that place,

Imagine living with that awareness all the time.

As you make your breakfast or as you have a conversation with someone or as you have an argument with someone or as you're driving and commuting to work,

That your body is infused with that same feeling that you have when you are in awe.

And that's the goal of the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra.

There's three parts of it.

The first part is a conversation between Devi and Bhairava or God and the human or your highest self and your human self.

And it's sort of a conversation where the human self is saying,

I don't understand,

You know,

What is this world all about?

What is life all about?

And then the next 112 sutras are either philosophies or practices that you can do that in a very subtle way helps to integrate that wonder into your day-to-day life.

It helps integrate that divinity into your reality.

And then after the 112 practices,

There are the insight verses.

And that's where we are now.

Today we're doing 157.

So we are now in the area of bringing it all together.

We've learned all of these practices.

We've explored these philosophies.

Now what?

So if you're new to the Radiant Sutras,

I have a playlist here on Insight Timer called the Radiant Sutras.

And you can always go back.

You could start right at the beginning and just listen to each talk.

It's not a complete set.

It's pretty close.

But every so often somebody was cutting their lawn behind me or I was taking care of my son's dog who was happily chewing a bone and there was too much background noise and Insight Timer didn't like the recording.

So those ones didn't get uploaded or some the sutras are a little too sexy for Insight Timer's filters.

So there's a few,

Maybe eight that never made it up,

But all the rest are up.

So you can always start at the beginning.

But even that being said,

Today we get to jump right in no matter whether you've been here for all of it or whether you've just started today.

So no worries there.

Okay,

You guys ready?

So wherever you are,

Let's just close our eyes.

Just breathing deeply.

With every breath,

Release the rest of the world.

Just let it go.

And really come into that eternal part of you.

That part of you that is the same today as who you were when you were six years old and will always be the same for the rest of your life.

Adorable goddess,

These practices are a nectar I share with you.

Drink from this cup whenever you are thirsty or crave to be refreshed in the essence of life.

Know that this ambrosia is available to you everywhere for the universe is made out of it.

Simply go to the intersection of flesh and spirit.

Breathe the tiny sparks that fly.

Within this very body are the many gateways to the infinite where incarnation and immortality consummate their passion for each other.

What emotion comes up for you or how does that make you feel?

Or what thoughts roll through your mind when you hear that?

Adorable goddess.

It's interesting how the divine always addresses us,

All gender,

With such reverence.

Ambrosia.

The intersection.

The intersection of flesh and spirit.

Intertwinement and connectivity.

Gateway to the infinite.

This sutra is really interesting because Lauren made a decision about it,

Apparently,

And I'm putting words in his mouth right now.

His translation is actually very different than the literal translation of this particular sutra.

We're going to have a discussion about that and I imagine you'll join me in sort of understanding why he did it.

So we're going to back up a little here and I'm going to read the literal translation of this sutra,

157.

Oh goddess,

This most excellent teaching,

Which is said to lead to the immortal state,

Should verily not be revealed to anybody.

That is the actual sutra.

Oh goddess,

This most excellent teaching,

Which is said to lead to the immortal state,

Should verily not be revealed to anybody.

What does that feel like to you?

What comes up for you when you hear that?

It's not quite as poetic.

It seems pretty different.

Sacred,

The patriarchy.

Secrets,

Exclusion,

Secret,

Gatekeeping by bed.

It's private.

To protect your inner knowing.

It's interesting,

Right?

And to understand that all of these,

Everyone's interpretations are correct.

These are sacred teachings,

Which means whatever comes up for us is interesting.

It's kind of like,

What do they call those inkblots?

Rawr,

Chalk,

Inkblots or something,

That whatever you see is really important.

It's extremely difficult for me to hold back knowledge.

The opposite of connectivity.

Can you read the original again,

Please?

I will in a sec,

Devi.

We're going to go down this little rabbit hole and then we'll go back to the original.

They're very different.

They're rawr.

You know why I can't remember that word?

Because I don't know how to pronounce it.

I think it's heightening the sense.

It's like a reverse psychology and we need to really pay attention.

Maybe it was good guidance for the time it was given.

Those multiple displays of natural phenomenon you experienced reminded me of ambrosia.

Rorschach.

Oh,

Thanks,

Rain.

It's so funny when you've only ever read something and you've never heard anyone say it out loud.

And so you just make up all these weird pronunciations of things.

Rorschach is one of those for me.

It's like whenever I see the word misled when I'm reading,

When you say it out loud,

You say misled.

But when I read it,

I say misled.

Not really the same,

But funny talking and reading things.

Oh,

You want me to read the short one,

Devi?

Sure,

I will read the short one.

Oh,

Goddess,

This most excellent teaching,

Which is said to lead to the immortal state,

Should verily not be revealed to anybody.

So what's interesting about this is there's two reasons why secrecy is interesting in this instance.

The first one is that the Radiant Sutras,

The Vijnana Bhairava Tantra,

Actually requires us to do practice to experience what it's all about.

And there's many parts of the world,

Even way back,

You know,

Thousands of years ago when this was written,

That oftentimes we want to understand something with our head.

You know,

It's sort of like you could sit down and read the Radiant Sutras beginning to end and say,

Okay,

I got it.

You know,

I know Tantra now.

But the problem is,

Is all we've done is feed our brain with ideas.

But the true expansion of life happens in the practice.

So if you actually take one of the practices in this teaching,

Any one of them,

And you actually do it every day for a month,

You will change.

Like you will change,

Your personality will shift,

How you see the world shifts.

You know,

Everything changes.

Without that practice,

It only stays in our mind.

And Tantra isn't an intellectual process.

It's almost like,

Imagine your heart is a portal.

And you can imagine that the brain does not easily access the heart's message.

It's almost like the heart is speaking Greek,

Or some kind of body type language,

And the brain is speaking English or something.

And so when we go out and have an experience,

Through meditation,

Through contemplation,

Through anything,

Like one of these practices,

The heart opens.

And when the heart opens,

It's like,

Let's imagine that the brain can only think and describe in black and white.

It's what it's made for.

It can only do black and white.

Let's just say for an example.

And so you learn all about Tantra theory,

And you have it all in black and white.

And you know,

You can even maybe regurgitate the teachings and sound like a scholar.

And then one day you decide,

I'm going to take one of these meditations,

And I'm actually going to do the meditation.

I'm going to sit for half an hour,

And I'm going to do this meditation.

For example,

So Leslie asks,

Do you mean meditate on the teaching?

Sometimes,

But more often,

I mean one of the practices.

So last week's class was all about listening to the sound of the air that moved through us.

And on the inhale,

We heard ha.

And on the exhale,

We heard sa.

And ha is the sound the body understands.

This is body language.

This is Sanskrit.

I have to look up what it's called.

There's a name for certain languages,

Unless you guys know,

But there's a name for certain languages that actually speak to the body,

That you don't intellectually have to understand it.

The body knows what it means.

So if you say ananda,

You don't intellectually have to know that this means peace.

And if you simply chant ananda,

Ananda,

Ananda,

Ananda,

Ananda,

Ananda,

The body will become more peaceful.

If you say satya,

Which is truth,

Satya,

Satya,

Satya,

There's a tuh,

Like there's a truth about it.

It's a,

Who are you?

Satya,

Right?

There's no messing around.

And if you chant that over and over again,

Your body and psyche will change.

It'll change.

It's not a light language,

Tonal languages.

I don't know,

Maybe.

And so this sound of ha,

Sa,

And there's an M in there too,

Like it's ham,

Sa,

Ham,

Sa.

And if you sit and just listen to the movement of the breath and you think ham,

Sa,

This will change your psyche.

Imagine doing that for 10 minutes every day for a month.

Parts of you would open up and suddenly you would start seeing green.

I'm just making that up in the context of if the brain is black and white.

And suddenly you're walking around the world and you're starting to see these curious shades of green.

And then you take a different practice from the book and you start to do that practice.

There's one practice I'm thinking of when you explore the night sky and you explore the true depths of nothingness,

Which is what we're truly made of.

And imagine you did this every night for a month,

That you deeply embodied the depth of the nothingness of the night sky.

And again,

There's context for this within the teaching.

Now suddenly you're walking around town and you start seeing blues and so on and so forth.

And as you continue to practice these tantric practices,

Suddenly the world is covered in rainbows.

And then someone comes up to you who has only learned the practices intellectually.

They're all mad at this and they're pissed off at their family.

And you are walking around because suddenly you see everyone in color.

And maybe you even see these people that you struggle with,

Could be your family of origin,

Could be family,

It could be your partner,

Your children,

Your parents,

Your colleagues,

Your bosses.

And suddenly you're seeing their interdimensionality.

You can't explain it,

But you can feel them differently.

And so you're not so triggered as you were before.

You understand them on a deep level that you cannot describe.

This is where the first reason that they warn against sharing this far and wide,

Because unless people are truly doing the practice and they understand the context of it,

Are they really going to get it?

And could they use it for negative reasons?

Could they use it to sound good and bring people to,

I don't know,

Pay them a lot of money or something to,

You know,

But they personally aren't really embodying the teachings themselves at all.

And what's interesting to me,

For example,

Sharing this with you guys every Monday for years.

Some of you guys are new,

Which is awesome.

And if you're still here after us chit-chatting here,

Then you probably are hearing something in your soul.

There's something in your soul that's saying,

I'm looking for this.

And if you've been with me for this long,

We've weeded out everybody who can't hear this.

I'm sure there's lots of people who pop in and they go,

Ah,

What a crazy woman,

And they pop back out.

For us,

For example,

Right now on Insight Timer,

They now show us on our teacher screen how many people have joined and how many people are still here.

So for example,

Right now during this class,

116 people joined,

But there are only 60 here remaining.

When I first started on Insight Timer,

It was much nicer to imagine that there were still 116 people here.

Oh,

There's 61 people here now.

The reality is 50 people left,

Because for those 50 people,

This wasn't for them.

There's nothing amok with that.

They headed off to find another teaching,

Another practice,

Another something that was in resonance with them.

So for me,

If you guys are all here,

It's all good.

We can talk about this into the deepest depths.

You know what I mean?

Like we all relate to this.

We all resonate with this teaching.

So it's just interesting,

Because one of the things that that interpretation says is don't share it with anybody.

It doesn't mean don't share it,

But don't just go sharing it with anybody.

And the reality is we all know this.

Then we come to the second reason why perhaps we should keep this personal and secret.

And this is about our own personal journey.

When we are on a spiritual path,

Sometimes,

Maybe all the time,

One of the worst things we can do is try to share it with the people we love.

Even if they're also spiritual people,

Let's just go with the easy ones.

Let's go with the ones that are like us.

There are like-minded,

Kindred spirits.

This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately,

That even within my most inner circle,

People I love and have been connected to for decades,

We see the world entirely differently.

We process every experience absolutely differently,

Even though we're friends,

Even though we love each other,

Even though we respect each other,

And we're open,

And we're not disparaging,

And we're not critical.

We are loving and kind and supportive.

The problem is that when you sit and have an epic experience,

Maybe you do a yoga kriya,

Maybe you do a meditation,

Maybe you walk down the street and you are overcome with awe at the sight of the trees,

And the sky,

And a rainbow,

And a puppy dog.

Who knows?

And then you go and you share it with somebody.

Maybe you go to a retreat and you just feel like your entire being has unfolded.

Like this is something that happened to me this past week.

I was traveling and talking to all kinds of people,

And different people,

And I was having all these really interesting conversations.

And by the time I was driving back home Saturday,

Something really big inside of me shifted.

Really big,

All about scarcity and abundance.

It just flipped on its head,

And something deep inside of me has changed.

And this is a lesson for me,

Because I tend to share everything.

Like if someone says,

Hey,

What are you thinking about Katrina?

I'm gonna tell you.

Even if it's some deep,

Philosophical,

Existential thing that I'm wrestling with,

Or this realization I have,

I'm gonna be like,

Oh,

So I was thinking about this thing,

And as I'm describing it,

I'm already making it smaller.

It is impossible for me to share this in its entirety,

Because it's multi-dimensional.

Maybe it's shifted me in 40 lifetimes that I can't even explain.

But the problem is,

The more I try to explain it,

And like,

Let's say I,

Because I did this,

This is like legit what I did over the last three days.

I have this big realization,

And then I share it with my sister,

But it doesn't sound quite right.

Like I'm not really touching it.

And I keep finding myself saying,

But already I've made it smaller.

And then I chit chat with a friend of mine on my way home when I was driving,

And again,

I made it smaller.

And then I come home,

And I tell my partner,

And I've almost simplified it to a caricature of what it once was.

And this is very interesting.

To allow our spiritual inner journey to be ours,

To be between ourselves and God,

Between ourselves and creator,

Source,

Whatever you understand that to be.

And in this moment,

I am mostly talking to me,

Just so you know.

So I appreciate you listening in on my inner dialogue.

Like,

What if we just let ourselves have our spiritual experience?

And if someone says,

What are you thinking about?

This isn't something that I share.

Because if I share it,

I'm going to ruin the soup.

I'm going to ruin it.

So this is actually a very interesting aspect of why we keep our spiritual path private,

Secret.

Because again,

If we consider the context of the time that it's written in,

They're basically saying,

Share it with your spiritual teacher and no one else.

I've learned that it's impossible to share those resonant magical teachings with others.

The magic is stripped out by the mundane words we explain it with.

Exactly.

So this is really,

Really interesting.

And so we go from that literal translation.

So let's just repeat,

Because I know some people are just joining.

So the literal translation is,

O Goddess,

This most excellent teaching,

Which is said to lead to an immortal state.

This immortal state,

The Sanskrit is paramamritam.

So it actually means supreme nectar,

Or the immortal state.

This most excellent teaching,

Which is said to lead to the immortal state,

Should verily not be revealed to anybody.

So this is the original Sanskrit,

Or the original teaching.

And Lauren looked at that,

And I'm 100% putting words in his mouth,

I have no idea what he was thinking.

He seems to have said,

So let's focus on what that internal journey is that we cannot share with other people.

What is that?

So he writes,

Adorable Goddess,

These practices are a nectar I share with you.

Drink from this cup whenever you are thirsty,

Or crave to be refreshed in the essence of life.

Know that this ambrosia is available to you everywhere,

For the universe is made of it.

Simply go to the intersection of flesh and spirit.

Breathe the tiny sparks that fly.

Within this very body are many gateways to the infinite,

Where incarnation and immortality consummate their passion for each other.

What does that feel like?

Within that context.

For me,

It makes the spiritual path feel very sacred,

Very personal.

It's almost like,

Have you ever had it that you have an inner experience,

But maybe there's a color in it?

Maybe there's a feeling in it,

There's something that you just can't explain.

What if it is just for you?

Right,

It is interesting,

This desire to extrovert everything.

Let's do a little meditation.

So wherever you are,

Let's just close our eyes.

Let's just breathe deeply.

Release any thoughts that are flowing through our minds.

Expanding the belly as you inhale,

Contracting as you exhale.

And in your mind's eye,

Picture yourself as a baby.

Really look at this baby.

What are you doing?

Are you smiling?

Are you sitting?

Are you lying down?

And then gently watch that baby grow and become a toddler,

A young child,

An older toddler,

Older child,

And then a teenager.

And see yourself as that teenager trying to fit into the world,

Exploring this curious place we live.

And then see yourself becoming an adult and really envision yourself.

Maybe you're sitting on a park bench and you're sitting there and you're realizing something and you're realizing that there is an entire inner world.

There is the world that you can see around you with all the people,

The jobs,

The houses,

The cars,

The money,

Which we often identify as reality.

But there is also an inner world,

A world of your thoughts,

Emotions,

Hopes,

Knowledge,

Wisdom,

Awareness,

Consciousness.

And there's some part of you that knows that this physical experience is quite a miracle.

And you make a decision in your heart that you would like to pursue this inner world,

This inner connection.

And you know that you will continue to live in the world around you and enjoy friends and chocolate and sunshine and swimming and whatever else you love to do.

But you're also aware of an inner world that is not so easily described.

And so it's going to be your little secret.

Not that you're keeping things from anybody.

There may be times that someone says,

How are you?

What are you thinking about?

And you'll find the words to say,

I'm just in awe of the ocean,

Thinking about life.

And you'll find a gentle way to stay connected with people,

But knowing that there is a very deep ocean within that you are enjoying exploring in your magical self.

And then in your mind's eye,

Closing your eyes.

And with every breath,

Feeling this spirit flowing through you as you inhale and exhale,

Feeling that spirit,

Bringing prana and oxygen to all the cells of your body,

Mixing and intermingling the divine and the physical with every breath.

Adorable Goddess,

These practices are a nectar I share with you.

Drink from this cup whenever you are thirsty or crave to be refreshed in the essence of life.

Know that this ambrosia is available to you everywhere,

For the universe is made out of it.

Simply go to the intersection of flesh and spirit.

Breathe the tiny sparks that fly.

Within this very body are many gateways to the infinite,

Where incarnation and immortality consummate their passion for each other.

Let's take a deep breath in together.

And exhale.

And let's gently come back into the room together.

Well,

Thank you guys so much for being here today.

Reviews

Katrina has opened a whole new world for me! I am soo glad I listened to a live session that another teacher recommended to me. Something about lover and liver and laughter. Getting the giggles. 🤭
It spoke to me in a deep way. That this was something I needed. I followed that intuition and here I am. I just received my copy of Lorin Roches’ Radiance Sutras. And now I am starting at the beginning with your playlist and the book. With a firm knowing that this is one of the priorities I will be working with for the winter. Along with my other projects. Thank heavens I’m retired. Katrina 🙏🏻

An amazing teacher. And I do not say that lightly. She opens minds to things unknown (or lesser known) with such humility. Infinity listenable!

This cannot be put into words as it would be an insult to its magnificence and would nullify its deepest truth. However, I do want to share and express my deepest gratitude for your existence and that you are shedding light on these teachings which are relentlessly changing the awareness of my existence.