Self-reliance, Evolution Of Our Species And The Art Of Adventure With Derek Loudermilk

This is an insightful, inspiring discussion between Derek Loudermilk and myself. Derek is a microbiologist, a former pro cyclist, a world traveller, business coach, photographer and host of the awesome podcast “The Art of Adventure”. He is also a buddy of mine and a truly interesting guy, who is living life differently. He currently abides in Bali, where he lives the life of a globally roaming, entrepreneur. When I think about Derek’s life, I just think: “This is a guy having fun, living life how it supposed to be lived.” Just last week, Derek and a few buddies smashed a world record, by summiting Bali’s 3 major peaks/volcano’s in record time.

"Adventure doesn’t just always happen. Sometimes you have to make plans, visualise, overcome doubts, do the hard thing, say no to security, say yes to the unknown. But one thing is for sure, if you build your life around adventures… your life will not be bland."

Transcript

Welcome to the Flowstate Performance Podcast.

Created for those committed to mastery and success.

Coming to you from Manly Australia we break down the science and philosophy of optimal performance.

So you can unleash your potential.

Welcome to the Flowstate Performance Podcast.

I'm Jiro Taylor and today I'm talking with Derek Ludemilk,

A man of many talents.

He's a former,

Or a current microbiologist,

A former pro-cyclist,

A world traveler,

Business coach,

Photographer,

And host of the awesome podcast The Art of Adventure.

So you Derek,

You sound like you know how to live.

Oh man,

That makes me sound pretty good.

I do my best.

I'm so interested by the microbiology.

I was reading a book mastery by Robert Greene and I just read the chapter about Charles Darwin and about how his adventures overseas,

How it made him as a man and how he's discovering all these new species.

And I believe that you have a discovery under your belt also.

Yeah,

Actually Charles Darwin is a huge hero of mine and we both have this similar sort of intelligence where we observe the natural world and we try to discover some truth about it just by observation.

And so because of that I always wanted to discover something,

A new species,

And with that in mind I went to Yellowstone National Park and studied the viruses of the hot springs in the boiling acid hot springs there for a few years and discovered a new species in 2012.

No way.

How many people can say that?

There should be some registry,

Some club that we get to participate in.

Did you get the naming rights?

Well unfortunately there's this convention,

So it's called MYSV Metallosphera Yellowstone Ensis Spherical Virus,

Very sciency name.

I did name the hot spring that it was found in after myself.

Of course you did.

That's awesome man.

Okay,

One day I'm going to go there.

It's one of my life goals now.

I'm going to check out this hot spring.

So how was living in that national park?

I mean it's one of the most awesome places on earth,

Right?

Yeah,

So I was at the University of,

At Montana State University which is an hour and a half north of the park,

But that's where all the research and science is based and then we take trips down into the park to collect our samples and survey the hot springs and stuff like that.

Which is kind of cool sometimes because sometimes you're going in the summer when all the tourists are there,

But sometimes you're going in the winter when there's no one there and we have the back country researchers permit so we can go anywhere in the park.

So we would get on our snow machines and it would be minus 20 degrees and we would just snowmobile through this beautiful national park when there's no one around and actually the day that I discovered,

Or took the sample that led to the discovery we were coming around a bend in the road and found ourselves smack dab in the middle of a herd of bison.

They were using the road as a highway and so we just snowmobiled around and we were right into them and we couldn't really turn around because they came around behind us and there was a whole herd of hundreds of these one ton animals in front of us and we just had to slowly sort of pick our way through these herd of animals hoping they wouldn't gore us to death.

And well I'm still here talking to you so they didn't but that was exactly the sort of thing that I was hoping for when I decided to study in Yellowstone.

That's awesome man.

So that's probably really informed your view of adventure and how to live life I imagine.

Did you find that when you were growing up as a kid you were the sort of kid that was looking for adventures,

Looking for new discoveries?

Yeah I was I still am an only child and that meant that I had a lot of time to myself to use my imagination and I was always going on adventures I would go on an adventure like through the neighborhood and climb all the fences and try to discover things by myself as a kid and just growing up with a family that spent a lot of time in the woods and it was just a natural thing to me to explore the outdoors.

That's awesome man.

So tell us a little bit about where you're at right now.

I know physically you're actually in Bali,

You're living in Bali right now.

You are basically living the life of a digital nomad.

I know that you've got a lot of traveling under your belt over the past few months.

Tell us a little bit how you went from microbiologist pulling samples from national parks to where you are right now.

Yeah so when I finished my time in grad school I read the 4 hour work week many years before and I had always wanted to test out whether I could do that so I started my first coaching business which was coaching racing cyclists and I said I just need a minimum amount of income to travel in Asia,

Southeast Asia and I've been traveling in Southeast Asia for the last 2 years about Vietnam,

Cambodia,

Singapore,

Malaysia and now in Bali and I just sort of have this feeling of wanting to experience all the cultures of the world,

You know partly curiosity about people partly because I know that it helps me be more understanding and empathetic of a person and partly just selfish wanting to see cool things.

There's nothing wrong with that man.

So cyclists,

Right?

How does that fit into the whole equation?

You know that was I've always loved watching the Tour de France ever since I was a kid and I had a best friend,

We started racing together when we were I don't know 13 and took some time off of cycling to be a collegiate runner but when I graduated college I said I'm going to go all in with cycling and spend a few years to see how good I can get and spend some time living in Spain and racing all around the states and got to race against Lance Armstrong and a lot of other of the top riders of the day and it was a blast.

It was so much fun.

The reason that I'm not doing it is partly one of just rationalization.

You can't be a professional cyclist forever.

Your body will get older at some point and so I said,

Well what if I end up being a 40 year old retired cyclist with no skills and that's when I decided to go back to grad school.

Okay,

Gotcha.

Okay,

So you went back to grad school after making a rational choice that you weren't going to be a pro cyclist but now you're a vagabond and you're traveling around the world and you're running an awesome podcast and you're being everything but a microbiologist right now.

How has that worked out?

Yeah,

It's good.

I just went to the podcast movement conference for podcasters down in Fort Worth,

Texas and I've been running this podcast for a year,

The Art of Adventure,

And that conference just confirmed to me that this format of teaching through broadcasting,

Whether it's video or podcasts,

Sort of journalism is really what I love doing.

I love learning from other people.

I love having the guests on my show to interview them and I love being able to teach.

Each episode is its own special topic that someone is really going to benefit from and it's just great when someone says,

Hey I listened to your show and it really helped me or I made a few thousand dollars because I implemented this thing that you talked about and that's super cool that I can deliver the right information at the right time to someone that maybe I haven't even met.

It's an amazing way to live for sure man.

And how long have you been living this life or how long have you been running this podcast that you run which is called The Art of Adventure?

Yeah,

I'm coming up,

We're like two days away from the one year anniversary and almost have a hundred episodes and I'm finally feeling like I'm starting to get the hang of it,

Which is funny because the first 25 episodes I look back on and I think,

Wow,

Those are not as good and so it's a good feeling to actually improve a little bit.

Yeah,

Right.

Wow,

So basically a hundred conversations with people where you dive deep into adventure and performance and entrepreneur strategies and learning,

It's just so awesome the way that you have set up this life where you have interesting conversations with people.

That seems to be the main takeaway that I seem to get from your life right now.

Yeah,

And maybe the scientist part of me has evolved to be interested in social science and people and maybe it's because I see that people are attached to all the cool things that you want out of life.

They can get you a cool job,

They can come on your podcast and talk they can invite you to join a group,

Whatever it is people and social situations are just fascinating because we're such a social species and I've just been observing people for the last,

I don't know,

For the last few years and started applying my scientific knowledge of learning to people.

And I suppose you're seeing trends because that's just what happens,

Right?

So what do you see as the common factors in the guys that seem to be kicking the most ass or living the best lives?

Oh,

That's a really good question.

Let me think about that for a second.

I mean beyond things like being productive and saying no to things that aren't serving their purpose,

I in general see a positive attitude of sort of everyone believes that they can succeed and they think it's going to be amazing and then they go and do it.

And I think that has to do with,

You won't take action if you don't really believe that you can do it.

And most of these guys know they're going to make mistakes.

They know they're going to fail and they're resilient in the face of failures and they're still planning for success.

That mental resilience seems to come up time and time and time again,

Hey?

Cool,

Man.

So talk to me about adventure.

So obviously you've named your podcast The Art of Adventure.

You've set your life up so that it includes a lot of adventure.

It obviously means a lot to you.

So why?

What's the why behind The Art of Adventure?

Yeah,

And I've been thinking about adventure a lot recently.

The podcast itself,

The name sort of found me.

I stole the first two words,

The art of,

From two of my other favorite podcasts,

The Art of Charm and The Art of Manliness.

And I said,

Oh,

That's cool.

The Art of Something.

And then I was thinking,

Oh,

Well,

What's alliteration?

Another A word that sort of resonates with me.

And adventure just sort of popped out.

So I ran with it.

And so it's funny how you become the things that you do a little bit.

And so people start saying,

Oh,

This is Derek.

He's the adventure guy.

Okay,

Now I have to be adventurous.

And so it's shifted a little bit the way that I operate.

People will tell me,

Oh,

You have to be the first one to sing karaoke or you have to jump on this huge cliff because you're the adventure guy and you just have to do adventurous things.

And so it's like people are calling me out.

So basically before this podcast launched you were kind of like the kind of guy who would just sit at the back and not do anything.

And you just mostly stayed indoors and you were kind of afraid of everything and didn't really take on any challenges?

When you put it that way,

I hope that I wasn't that bad.

But it's funny just to notice that the framework of how you live your life is different because now I'm definitely forcing myself to be uncomfortable multiple times a day.

And at the end of my podcast I ask people a question,

What is your definition of adventure?

And many people answer that something to do with getting uncomfortable.

And that's a common theme among adventurers or when people talk about adventure is there's some element of risk,

Whether it's real or perceived,

That makes you feel uncomfortable.

Because you're not a pro at it.

You don't have quite the same confidence around things that you are well practiced at.

And so let me just take you through my recent thoughts about adventure.

Yeah man,

That would be awesome.

Yeah,

So there's a few parts,

A few results of adventure.

There's the element of self-discovery and self-reliance that you get from being out in a risky situation where you have to make your own decisions and maybe you have a team of people there with you but essentially you're on your own in charge of your life which is a privilege that we don't always have.

There's the component of exploration which is hardwired into our human genetics.

When resources would get scarce in a valley the tribe would split and some would explore the next valley over to see if there is more food over there and hence humans populated the whole earth.

And it drives process,

Innovation,

Creativity so that we can come up with solutions to new environments and so that's a big part of it.

I think it's a contribution to humanity which is an important part.

And the third sort of pillar that I think a lot about is if you look at the dictionary definition of adventure it says one of them is a memorable or remarkable experience or exciting or remarkable experience.

And so what is it,

You know,

These experiences are different and unique and strong enough that they stick in our memory and really as humans we're more human if we have more memories.

We have this experience that we're drawing from,

The more boring your life is the less memories you have and the less full it feels.

And with these memories comes stories and you start to be able to tell stories to people so they can learn from you.

You can inspire people with the stories you tell of how you made decisions in a tough situation or how you made it through something you didn't think you were going to make it through and you're leading by example.

So adventurers become leaders de facto because they're retelling the tales of the hardships they faced.

Yeah,

That's really interesting.

It's almost like there's something innate and original inherent in adventure.

It seems like for an adventure to be a real adventure it has to be something new and therefore the story becomes new.

But it almost seems like implicit in adventure is like breaking new ground within yourself.

So like always that's what they mean by going to the edge of your comfort zone or becoming uncomfortable or challenging yourself.

It's sort of like it really is just walking into the unknown.

That's kind of what it means to me I guess.

Yeah,

And with that comes confidence.

And confidence in one area doesn't always translate to another.

If you're really good at chess you might not be really good at giving a speech in front of 5,

000 people.

And through regular micro adventures or large adventures you learn how to handle the pressure of trying things for the first time or doing things that you don't have the confidence of practice at.

So adventure is maybe the one thing that allows you to have sort of broad generalized confidence that you're going to be okay no matter what it is.

You're going to come out of it alive and it won't be too bad.

Yeah,

That's an awesome way to look at it.

I'm just going back to when you were first talking about how naming this podcast The Art of Adventure has kind of set your life on a certain path.

Like I think that's incredible.

I think there's a really important insight or discovery there.

That it's because it's the opposite of passivity,

Just allowing life to dictate terms to you.

You're basically saying,

What do I want more of in my life?

Okay,

Now I'm going to build the structure,

I'm going to build the podcast,

I'm going to create a business and a lifestyle around what I wish to have more of in my life.

And then the natural side effect of it is that you end up going on all these adventures and jumping off cliffs and into swimming pools and stuff like that,

Which is so empowering.

Yeah,

It really is.

To feel like you can say yes to things that you're scared of or nervous about.

If you think about what people regret,

A lot of times it's not doing something that would have been fun or exciting or not approaching the beautiful woman or not acting on something that you really wanted.

And so it's a privilege to have structured things where I can say yes to meeting people or going somewhere and doing something.

That's awesome,

Man.

So where does intuition fall into this conversation with you?

Where does that sort of innate,

Because we're talking about evolution of our species and we're talking about how in the past people would I guess rely on their instincts to know when to move on or when to go here or make basic decisions.

In your life right now,

What role does intuition play?

That's a good question.

And when you say intuition,

I think relying on feelings.

And so there's,

I guess in my mind,

The rational thinking mind where you arrive at a decision by the pros and cons,

Writing it down on a piece of paper and then going with the one that has more pros.

And then there's this sort of arriving at a decision based on your gut instinct,

Which is really based on a bunch of rational inputs into your subconscious probably.

And so starting to trust your gut a little more to believe that I make good decisions when I go with what feels right,

I think that's important because we have so many senses and so many things going on that we don't really understand,

The brains and our guts and our ability to detect danger if we're out in the wilderness.

We get a bad feeling,

We have no idea why,

But we turn around and walk the other way.

And just accepting that our feelings can help guide us as well as our rational brain and that we do make good decisions.

And if I decide something,

I want to stop second-guessing myself.

I want to say,

That was a good decision and we're moving forward.

Yeah,

I think it's really interesting to bring up the whole concept of the brain and your gut and this broader definition of intelligence that is beyond the analysis of the pros and the cons.

I think that's really important because we are just constantly taking in this stream of information every microsecond of the day.

We're just like a sponge for sensory input.

And I think that in adventure situations,

Like adventure really for me is like when you come out of that,

It's almost like when you are put into a situation that is so challenging or stretches you so much that using that system of logic and reason and pros and cons simply isn't rapid enough and it probably isn't accurate enough.

And so you are forced to go into that other decision-making system which is subconscious and rapid.

So to me adventure is almost built in with this idea of flow states and I guess intuition and operating from a place that is not really about thought.

What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah,

I mean when you mention flow,

I think it seems to me that,

Especially I find this myself when I'm doing more physical challenges that I am making decisions without even realizing that I'm making them whether it's surfing or climbing a volcano or getting lost in a snowstorm which I have a great story about I can tell you about.

You know you're sort of realizing what needs to get done to get it done.

So the snowstorm story,

Are you familiar with the difference of type 1 and type 2 fun?

No.

Okay,

So basically type 1 fun is fun while it happens.

And type 2 fun is really hard while you're doing it but in retrospect it's kind of fun.

And so this one time I was with some friends and we were going to ski up to this fire tower on top of a mountain in Montana and so two of my friends went the steep way.

It was a 4 mile direct ascent up the face because they had skins and then I had touring skis and went around the long way up the fire roads which was a 12 mile ascent and I was with my wife at the time and we totally underestimated our,

Overestimated our ability underestimated the time it would take us and well the first thing that happened was we rented these boots and she had two left boots and there wasn't enough time to go back the two hours back to the place we rented them from to get new ones so she just said oh I'm going to ski with two left boots.

So right away we're like we're on the back foot.

It starts snowing,

The snow is sticking to our skis and our average speed drops to 1 mile an hour so then we're looking at,

You know,

Ok it's 12 miles in,

We've done 4 so we have 8 hours left to climb this mountain and get to where we're staying for the night.

We can't turn back because we don't have the keys to the car so we knew we had to just go all in and make it and at some point the sunset it's still a snowstorm,

The only map we have is a GPS on the phone the phone is slowly dying and if we go off the trail we fall neck deep into snow.

So we have to stay on the trail,

We're like navigating these mountain ridges and all of a sudden,

You know our communication gets much better,

We're just we're very communicative,

We're relaying the information we need back to each other,

We're supporting each other like giving high fives every you know,

30,

15 minutes or whatever we're making sure to eat,

We're drinking our food to make sure that we keep our blood sugar up so we can make good decisions and you know,

We're shifted into this semi-survival mode and I'm sure we're thinking,

Ok well if we can't make it to the thing like we're going to have to build a snow shelter or what are we going to do and then eventually we crest this ridge and we see,

You know,

Maybe 800 meters ahead of us,

This little light twinkling in the snow and we're like,

We look at each other and we're like,

Oh my gosh we're going to make it.

Oh man,

I know that feeling high fives all around.

Oh yeah,

And you get there and you're like,

I'm still alive it's great and looking back it was so cool because we did exactly what we needed to do to survive and I don't know how risky it was but it seemed like we were fighting for our lives we probably had the clothing we needed to spend the night out,

Whatever but it was definitely a big challenge Well it's incredible,

Yeah I find it fascinating when you slip into that,

What you call a semi-survival mode like the biology of what's actually happening there,

I mean it's really fascinating to learn about that stuff it seems to me like you basically both understood that there was a perceived risk,

You know,

It doesn't matter what the actual risk was in hindsight but you definitely understood that there was a perceived risk and it's almost like something takes over or a subconscious takes over or something and you do start I've been in a very similar snow situation myself we'll talk about this another time,

I've got my own stuck in the snow story and same thing man,

Like my brain it was a real battle because to start with I had complete,

Complete panic and it was such a disempowering sensation it was like panic to the point where I just wanted to curl up in a ball and cry and ask for money and then the flip side to that was what you're talking about this sort of,

Alright,

You pull shit together and you go into this survival state and you think about the worst case scenarios and you almost become comfortable with that and then you start getting really rational about the clothing that you're wearing,

The food supplies that you have features,

Maps,

Navigation,

Technique and you almost start,

It's almost like you start relying on your intuition but you're being very thorough and mechanical and analytical at the same time,

It's a very interesting state to be in And there's nowhere to hide,

You can't lie to yourself anymore,

You can't be any better than you actually are,

You know,

You're basically these are the skills that I have,

These are the things that I know that's what I'm working with,

It reminds me of the Apollo 13 when the oxygen blew and they had to just use the crap that was floating around the spaceship to start filtering their oxygen,

That's what they had and that's what they're working with Yeah,

And it really reminds you because so much of our lives in just normal life situations,

There's a tendency to dwell on the,

Oh,

Why didn't I do this,

Why didn't I do that or I should have done this and you start dwelling on the regrets and you realise in an emergency situation that it's just a waste of time it's a waste of mental resources and it just doesn't even come into the picture,

Does it you just will not allocate that mental space to thinking about that sort of stuff Yeah,

Cool man So,

Talk to me a bit more about the storytelling aspects,

So basically you must have come across,

You know,

You've basically been interviewing a lot of people and you've been,

I guess,

Learning about their sense of adventure and a lot about how they learn,

Who are some of the most interesting people that you've come across on your podcast?

Well,

The guy that comes to mind right now is a professional adventurer,

His name's Dave Kornthwaite and one of his big life goals is to complete 25 trips of a thousand miles or more all human powered,

All using different modes of transportation,

So he,

For example,

Skateboarded across Australia he swam the length of the Mississippi River,

He's I think,

Run across Great Britain you know,

He's doing all these,

Basically just adventures for the sake of adventure and that's a really interesting thing that a lot of adventurers,

You know,

We come up with reasons why we're doing it,

We say,

Oh,

Like Christopher Columbus wanted to go exploring,

Oh yeah,

I'm going to find you guys a passage to India,

But really he probably just wanted to see what was out there and so we're coming up with these excuses,

Essentially,

For adventure but a lot of times,

Like for me,

Wanting to discover a species,

It's just the curiosity of something that hasn't been done just do it because it's there and it's possible Yeah,

Man,

I think that's a really interesting way to look at it sometimes I think I see these guys that are doing ultra endurance feats,

Like there's a dude who I think did an ultra triathlon every single day for like 50 days or something I think they call him the Iron Horse,

I was reading about him on the Rich Roll blog,

And sometimes there's a huge part of me that just respects these individuals because of what they do and the pain that they put themselves through and their single-mindedness and I mostly just have this feeling of respect but I also sometimes wonder what they're avoiding or what the why,

The psychology behind doing some of these things.

Do you ever think about that?

Yeah,

And especially as a digital nomad,

Someone who's moving around all the time,

Seeking adventure you know,

A lot of times you're left without a solid community that someone,

Say,

Who has lived in the same place for 10 years and they have this group of friends and they do their thing on Thursdays with the guys and then they have date night on Friday and they have this cycle and routine and that's something that a lot of adventurers are missing and so you have to be careful,

You can't always be on an adventure,

An adventure has to end at some point and so it's within that finite context of adventure that you get the benefits from adventure and then you have to unpack it,

You have to do the storytelling,

You have to reflect on the adventure a lot of times you don't learn the lessons for a while,

It could even be years later and you start to learn things upon reflection of that experience from the past.

You see a lot in adventure writing when people are sort of joking about the mistakes that they made while they're out there on their adventure and then they come back to write about it and they're in a safe place and they can sort of have a bit of a laugh about how stupid they were and how close to death they were.

Yeah,

Fully man,

I know exactly what you mean.

I was just reading an interview with John Krakauer who wrote Into Thin Air about that disastrous season in Everest where a lot of climbers died and I definitely know what you're talking about there.

You mentioned before about micro adventures,

Just tell me more about your concept here.

Yeah,

That term is not my term,

I'm not sure who coined it,

I think a lot of British adventurers use that term,

But it could be your weekend getaways if you're the kind of person that lives in a city and you go camping on the weekends or it could be a daily practice of challenging yourself some way or at the minimum trying something new every day.

If there's something that is uncomfortable for you,

For me it was karaoke recently,

I had never done karaoke until a few weeks ago and I said,

You know,

I love singing in the shower,

I'm really nervous about singing in front of other people I grabbed one of my good friends and she's an amazing singer and we went and did karaoke luckily the bar only had like 10 people in it.

I sang Walkin' in Memphis,

Which is the greatest song ever.

It is a classic,

Bro,

It was definitely on my playlist.

See,

I lived in Japan for two years,

So I became something of a,

First of all I was like a reluctant karaoke person and then you spend enough time in Japan and it's so woven into social life over there that everybody goes and then soon enough I was like yeah,

Okay,

I can do karaoke,

I kind of enjoy this.

Two years later I'm a complete addict,

Connoisseur I know like the 50 songs that I can just reel off at any one time all of my buddies have got their favorite songs we all know exactly what duets we can do with each of our different friends we even know off by heart the code numbers how you can input them into the machine Do you have any good suggestions?

I mean,

A lot comes down to personal taste,

Right?

My personal belief is that there's a decade that stands out beyond all other decades when it comes to potential and karaoke,

And that is the 80s.

I just feel like the way that they made music back then,

You know,

Like the power and the emotion in those ballads,

Like Whitesnake and Richard Marx and people like that,

Like Night in Shining Armor the soundtracks to all those movies,

Like Back to the Future,

Karate Kid all those kind of 80s movies,

They've all got amazingly awesome typical 80s soundtracks,

And I think that genre makes for great karaoke.

Alright,

Yeah,

And probably a lot of people are doing karaoke,

They're in their 20s and 30s so they're gonna know those songs anyway Yeah,

When I lived in Japan,

I was working as a teacher over there and I'd have these colleagues who were like Japanese kind of like,

They worked for the board of education and they were kind of dudes in suits,

Very very straight laced,

And every six months or every three months we'd have an office party and these guys would just go loose and they'd just,

It was like their one night that they could just let everything out,

And all of a sudden the tie would be tied around their head,

They'd be standing on the table and they'd just be belting out Beatles song after Beatles song,

So for those guys it was all about Beatles and Rolling Stones and Elvis,

Those were like,

And they didn't know any of the lyrics,

Like in terms of the meaning of the words or anything,

But they could enunciate their version of the lyrics,

And they would do it with so much gusto,

It was always hilarious,

And then the next day you'd turn up to work in the office in Japan and because this is their particular culture nobody would say a word about the previous night,

It was almost like it was like a dream,

Like it hadn't existed.

And you know you said something in there that caught my attention was that these people were allowed to let loose and be themselves,

Which I see over and over again in these little micro adventures that the filters,

The things that you're covering up about yourself come down and you can bond with people so much more quickly when you have these shared challenges,

This shared adversity because then you start to see vulnerability and you start to see who people really are and it's powerful.

Oh man that's such an epic point,

It's such an epic point.

My personal view on all of this this is why,

This is what the flow state really stands for like my definition of flow is basically the same as intuition,

So it's when we're operating from a place where we don't have all these hang ups it's the opposite of acting from your ego so all those things about being self conscious or worrying about what other people feel or think about you,

The flow state is when all of that just disappears and you couldn't give a crap about any of that,

And adventure,

This is why when you have so many experiences everybody can tell a story about when they've gone on an adventure and it's been a real bonding experience,

They've really got to know somebody or they've shared this trial or tribulation and they've come out of it and man this is like so much a part of my life,

Like the buddies that I have and go on adventures with,

We just got this shared history together and like you said before,

It's like when we have let loose,

When we haven't cared about what people think about us and where we just,

I guess it's just about being real.

Yeah,

Good thing you said it better than I could.

So are you having many adventures over in Bali?

It sounds like you are.

Yeah,

You know right now we're planning to see if we can set a new world record for the three peaks challenge which is basically ascending the three main volcanoes here on Bali in a row back to back to back and see if we can knock off a couple of hours.

Wow,

What's the world record?

Right now it's 17 hours So that's a serious challenge,

So you're aiming for like 15 hours or something?

Aiming for 15 and I haven't climbed all of them,

I've only climbed two of them and the hardest one I have yet to climb so it'll be interesting.

You know,

And so then you're like part of it is the preparation,

How do I get fit for this,

We're going to do it in a month I only have a month to get fit and then all the other things like when are we going to eat the food and how are we going to manage our pacing and all that stuff,

You have no idea how it's going to go.

Yeah,

But that's the great part right?

You don't know now,

But you're going to know soon enough and you're going to throw yourself into it and then you're going to just deal with all of the unknowns and the pain and all that sort of stuff and that's what's so awesome about adventure,

Hey?

Yeah,

And it's cool just to do a little planning and dreaming,

You know?

It seems like part of this,

You know,

Part of the way I see adventure,

It's always,

I do respect the people that do these crazy solo adventures,

Like there's this famous dude called Jeff Clark who surfed this famous wave in California called Mavericks and this is a big,

Big,

Big scary wave and there's big sharks in that area and the reason why this guy is a legend is because he kept it a secret and he surfed it alone for something crazy like 10-15 years and I've got mad respect for that because it's simply terrifying,

But on the other hand,

All my greatest adventures,

I guess,

Have except for one,

Which is my snow story,

But all my greatest adventures have been with buddies.

So what are your thoughts around support network and tribe and community and buddies?

Well,

I think that personally I derive a lot of strength from having companions around,

Even if maybe I'm the leader in a situation.

When I was growing up,

I was in the Boy Scouts and we did a lot of back country traveling in Canada with canoes or in New Mexico,

You know,

Just hiking in the wilderness and yeah,

There's always things that people are going to know have skills that complement your own and so I feel that,

Yeah,

Some group,

Six or eight people is like such an awesome group size to have for extended adventures.

At the same time,

When you're out there by yourself the pressure is just it's on even more,

Right,

Because you just have to rely on your own ability to get yourself through the situation and you know,

You sort of think,

Like,

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to come out of this alright,

But I'm not exactly sure how and I just have to keep taking a step forward,

I just,

You know you're in the middle of a karaoke song,

You just need to finish you just need to keep saying the words if you're uncomfortable or whatever it is,

You're giving a speech in front of people and you start to think,

Oh my god are they liking this,

You know,

You just have to finish the speech you can't run away from these things Yeah,

I guess that solo adventure is like the pinnacle of adventures,

Because it really does thrust you out there alone,

And I love,

By the way,

I love the way that we're talking about climbing mountains and doing karaoke in like the same sentence Well yeah,

Because,

You know,

A lot of people when I ask them,

You know,

What is your definition of adventure,

They say,

I want to make the distinction that an adventure doesn't have to be jumping out of a plane and I think I agree,

Because a lot of times dealing with your own emotions can be an adventure because it can be scary to look inside or when you're thinking about your own thoughts,

A lot of people maybe when they start to have bad thoughts or strong emotions they think,

Oh,

I'm just gonna go have a drink and so there's these external physical challenges and then there's internal challenges as well,

And so I think adventures can span,

And there's social,

Social ones as well Absolutely,

And then like,

When you think about flow states and the book Rise of Superman that Steven Kotler wrote he talks about how risk is one of the most powerful triggers for flow,

And for one person that might mean jumping out of that plane or doing like a triple backflip over the Grand Canyon on a motorbike,

But for another dude,

That might mean simply walking across the room to go and talk to the girl at the bar you know,

The same kind of neurochemicals are happening which is really interesting Yeah,

Yeah,

Talking to people I guess it does get easier over time,

But I did one little experiment where I was riding the train in New Zealand and I interview people all the time,

And I wanted to challenge myself by interviewing 20 or so people on the train about their travels and about adventure,

And every single time it was just hard to approach a stranger and strike up a conversation and then ask if I could interview them,

It was way harder than I thought Yeah,

That's a really interesting point actually I think that,

Like I've got a buddy,

He's a good friend,

Steve,

And he epitomizes the adventure archetype like he's always out there,

If he's not paddleboarding like two miles out to sea he's on his mountain bike,

Or he's building a house,

Or he's doing something crazy in a forest,

He just is adventure but for Steve,

One of the most uncomfortable situations in his day to day life is going to a party or going to some sort of place where he's going to have to introduce himself in front of people,

That really thrust him so fast out of his comfort zone,

And it's really important because I'm the same,

Right?

The whole social side of stuff is probably giving a speech in front of a lot of people,

That for me is the edge of my comfort zone I think there's a lesson there,

That people have to figure out what their individual definition of comfort zone and adventure is,

And then walk in that direction instead of looking at the guys who are just climbing mountains and jumping out of planes and thinking,

Oh,

That's the adventurous life and make it more individual.

Do you agree with that?

Yeah,

I think I would just encourage people to have a think about whatever makes them uncomfortable and lean into it lean into the discomfort and just try to use a little bit of willpower or courage or bravery something that the Native Americans used to always be talking about was bravery,

Hence the name,

Indian Braves and just use a little bit of that and then you'll have an adventure and you won't be the same,

You'll be permanently changed for the better,

No matter which type of adventure you choose Yeah,

Man,

Permanently changed That's an important point.

So I like to talk to people about their habits and their rituals in life For me,

Rituals are one of the most important ways to achieve growth.

What are some of your rituals in your life?

At a young age,

I learned by moving around a lot I was that kid that the teacher finally just let me roam around the classroom instead of fidgeting and banging around in my seat at my desk.

So every day I try to move I am doing a new exercise every day,

Whether it's yoga,

Crossfit,

Running,

Swimming I try to do something a little bit different every day so that I'm always challenging my body and I try to read every morning If I'm on a roll,

I'm reading a book a day Are you speed reading?

Some of them I'm speed reading Some of them I'm devoting a bit more time if I have time in the morning and the evening.

So I'm reading a lot,

I'm moving every day and one of my goals for this year was to meditate at least half of the days of the year and at least two months for the entire month So January and July,

I meditated every day which was a nice part of my day What did you feel were the benefits from that practice?

Well it's weird because I'm still a new meditator,

I've only been doing it for a year and a half I don't know,

It's just things that bother other people,

Things that stress other people out don't stress me out.

The unknown things that make people anxious just don't make me anxious anymore which is great Awesome,

Couldn't have put it better myself What a great reason to meditate,

You don't have to go any deeper than that That's awesome.

Cool man,

So how can people find out more about what you're doing just give me the quick down low on how people can connect with you Yeah,

If you are curious,

Check out the Art of Adventure podcast,

You can get it for free wherever you get your free podcast on iTunes or Stitcher My website is DerekLoudermilk.

Com and that's my Twitter and Instagram handle as well I've got a lot of cool photos on Instagram from the various adventures and observations that I come across and also feel free to send me an email if you have any questions,

Derek at DerekLoudermilk.

Com Awesome man,

Well you've inspired me to definitely come and visit you and check out this digital nomad scene over in Ubud in Bali,

Like I've spent a lot of time over there and I'm sure that you're having the best time having adventures in that part of the world Yeah,

Man,

I'd love to come visit.

When are you doing this mountain climb?

That's going to be at the end of October,

So we'd love to have you come along.

I'm going to try and swing it,

We'll see what I can do Cool brother,

Well thank you so much for your wisdom and for your time and it's been really inspiring to hear about your story and yeah,

I'd love to have you back on the show at some point down the line.

Thanks,

Dero,

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks for having me.