Awakening: Definition, Purpose & Probability With Randi & Alex

In February 2023, Randi Green & I were joined by Alex Manning to discuss awakening. In the first of this two-part series, we talk about the definition, purpose & probability of awakening as well as the processes, of psychological maturing & some of the steps needed to begin the journey toward expanded perception, & higher-order awareness. What is higher-order awareness? And what does this mean? Is it the same as awakening or activation? Also: dreams, astral, dark awakenings, bliss, crisis, etc.

Transcript

Homeless,

Welcome.

This is Josh Tippold of IntegratingPresence.

Com.

Today,

I'm joined again by Randy Green and also we have today with us Alex Manning.

How are you gals doing today?

Fantastic.

Thank you.

All good.

We're going to talk about this word awakening.

What do we mean by awakening?

What's its purpose and what are the probabilities surrounding it?

I know this has kind of become almost a cliche topic.

There's even these things called things,

This thing called wokeism or being woke and that's not necessarily what we're talking about here at all.

We're talking about awakening,

Which is usually more so commonly associated with quote unquote spirituality,

But we want to look at it in a little bit different light.

I'm going to pass this right to Randy right away and say,

Randy,

What do you mean by awakening?

What is this?

How would you define awakening?

Well,

The first step I want to go here is that we have got this interesting constellations of two people from America and me from Denmark.

So there are differences there in the understanding of what awakening is because here in Denmark we are still to my knowledge very hooked up on traditional spiritualities,

Traditional ascension dynamics,

Traditional means of with guides and tarot and crystal cards.

And many people see that that's the awakening going into spirituality,

Being able to see guides,

Spirit animals,

What have you,

Which for me to a large degree is what I coin astralism.

It's part of the astral plane.

It's not really awakening.

It's part of the subconscious.

It's part of dream level of our energy field.

So it is a beginning point to open up to a broader spectrum of knowledge that comes from within,

But it's just the first step of the journey.

So for me,

Awakening is a constant process of expanding awareness,

Of learning how to work with the processes of expanding our awareness,

Constant being in this waking up state where life itself becomes a journey of perceiving energy from a different angle of both mind or emotions,

As well as higher levels of awareness,

Which again leads to a completely different discussion.

What is higher awareness?

So that's kind of where I want to start.

Very good.

Alex,

Would you like to pick up on this?

Yeah,

I think without going too in depth into,

You know,

What it means from an American point of view,

Because you did touch on that and opens that door.

And I won't go down that rabbit hole.

But I think we do have that foundational spirituality,

You know,

In America,

In American culture.

But Josh,

I think to your earlier point,

We also have this new connotation of wokeness.

And it's associated with other elements beyond the spiritual process or the awakening process.

You have the correlation to politics and,

You know,

Other cultural components tied to current events in America,

Where it's a little bit different to your point,

Randy.

You know,

From your perspective.

Yeah.

And it's almost like it's been hijacked in a way.

So where the left spectrum has the wokeism and the right has gotten too far into conspiracy,

Maybe some things with the QAnon thing and they're just kind of both completely off the mark of what we're talking about,

But trying to maybe capitalize on if there's any kind of momentum with it for their own purposes.

But we're not talking about this.

We're talking about this way I feel anyway is this is for our own well-being and happiness is one aspect of it and for the well-being and happiness of others and for all beings everywhere.

And also the reality field in general.

So I look at this too as awakening,

As seeing things as they really are,

Not how we want them to be so much,

Right?

It's good to have aspirations and goals and things like this,

Obviously,

And a path.

This is also associated with different paths of spiritual paths and things like this,

Be it entry level or transcendent level.

But for me,

It's just about being in alignment with reality,

How it actually is.

And along with this goes all the things in the way,

The things that are hindering us internally and externally from seeing the truth of reality of how it actually is.

I think I would add as well,

It's changing your frames of reference,

Right?

So changing your frames of reference,

The way you view yourself and then to your point,

The way that you're viewing external events and the outside world.

Yeah.

And this is the first step on the Buddhist path,

The right view.

And it's also it's the first and the last in a way,

It's almost there has to be some degree of wisdom to see the benefit of it.

And all the different steps and practices along the way are to build up more wisdom along the way in order to have even a more accurate view of truth and reality.

Yeah.

And then I have to push that one because what is truth and what is reality and what is perception?

Because it's so,

It's again,

For me,

What I think is the most important thing for me to put in here is that it is,

It's a step ladder process.

It's a spectrum of awareness.

It's not just this or that,

Because truth is one in one on one level of perception of reality.

Truth is that on another level of reality.

Truth is that on another reality and so forth.

So and when we talk about awareness,

Awareness in the human form,

Awareness in the energy system,

Awareness on the consciousness level,

Or what we talk about,

What is the aspiration from going outside what we call everyday life and going into the understanding of there's more to life than just the physical realm.

That's the first step of aspiration of awakening,

Going to that understanding,

Whoa,

There's something going on here.

And for some people to seeing a spirit or an ancestor or something,

That's enough or beginning to take signs from animals that they're seeing or the birds in the trees or the crows or what have you.

That's the first way they feel they are in tune because that's what they know from what we call old shamanistic practices or what indigenous people are talking about.

Then they feel as a Westerner,

Oh,

I'm so woke,

To use that expression,

Because I'm seeing these things,

I'm sensing these things,

Which is just technically just the enhancement of the peripheral nervous system.

It's just the emotional system that begins to instead of just being an internal feature,

Begins to work in alignment with the outer energies and thereby the sensing becomes stronger.

The absorption of reality energies kicks harder,

So to speak,

Than when people are just up in their heads,

Walking around in their everyday lives thinking about me,

Myself,

I and my needs and my desires and I need to earn money,

I need to pay the bills or my boss is an asshole or whatever people are thinking about suddenly experiencing reality.

And that's the first step of awakening actually to experience the world we are part of with all of our senses.

And that's also part of seeing things as they truly are,

Because there we are no longer just perceiving things from our internal perception field of how I want reality to be,

But actually begin to work with reality as it is on its own right,

As it is per itself.

And I can't remember the German philosopher that came up with that.

But there is a German philosopher that came up with that.

I can't remember what it's called,

But see things as they are in their own rights.

So I think that's the first step of the awakening process is not to interpreting everything through the filter of our own narrative,

But actually begin to interact with reality as it presents itself.

And that's where science actually kicks in as well.

And this is where perception comes in too.

So maybe we can come back and kind of put a definition on awareness and perception as well.

The one thing that I feel is the most,

One of the most important of what Rainey just said is seeing and knowing this for oneself,

Right?

Because yes,

We have teachers that will help us.

We have guides.

We have teaching systems and books and videos and podcasts.

But what it comes down to at the end of the day,

Can one see and know this for oneself or are they relying on an outside source,

Only an outside source?

So I would say it has to be seen and known for oneself.

It can't just be taken on good faith,

Although faith comes into it to start off as well.

And faith can be verified by our own experiences,

But ultimately at the end of the day,

Know thyself.

And it also,

Some of these things can come from,

In my instance,

It came from like the dark night of the soul or these dark awakenings that,

Oh yeah,

The people in power,

It seems so obvious now,

Right?

They're not exactly what they appear to be,

Right?

There's things going on behind the scenes that they don't want to know publicly.

I mean,

This goes from very pedestrian things to maybe some very intense things behind the scenes,

We'll put it that way.

And when we talk about truth here,

I won't get into my pet topic so much,

But a really helpful teaching I found is the two truths.

There's the conventional or relative reality,

Relative truth in a way,

And then there's the ultimate truth.

So obviously we're not going to be talking about ultimate truth today,

So we can have you guys all be enlightened and you can get back to your Netflix shows,

Right?

So you can get this awakening project out of the way and get back to TV or whatever.

But yeah,

So what would you say,

Alex,

Before we jump back into defining like awareness and perception?

Yeah,

I think I would actually add,

So we did talk about seeing,

So seeing physical examples in our reality or external events in our reality that maybe spur that awakening process.

But I think sometimes you may not see anything physically or even external events,

Perceiving them differently and having suspicions to tie to your example.

I think you can also have that inner knowing or sense that you don't know everything the way it's been laid out to you,

The way you've been programmed.

And there's an inner drive to want to understand more.

And sometimes that could be the spark or the spur to your initial awakening journey.

It may not necessarily be that first visual of something traditionally that we perceive or categorize as a sign or something in the physical.

Reminds me of the saying that Morpheus said in the Matrix,

Like a splinter,

And you know something was wrong,

Like a splinter in your mind driving you mad.

You couldn't really tell what it was,

But something's off here.

Something's not the way it appears to be.

Yes.

And talk about intuition too,

Is what you're kind of talking about,

Right?

Yeah.

I would like to put a hook into when you said this kind of awakening that authorities were not as you perceive them to be and as a psychotherapist.

Entirely.

Yes.

But as a psychotherapist,

That actually ties into some of the developmental processes as a kid,

When you realize your parents are not these fantastic,

Awesome beings,

And you begin to take them down the pedestals because you begin to see they have flaws and they poop and they pee and they do stuff that is not this godlike beings.

And many people have actually not done that process with their own parents,

But they get the process with the authorities instead.

Well,

That's right.

Because the parents are no touch because I need them to be on the pedestal.

That's the comfort zone,

The psychological comfort zone.

But instead of actually working with the disappointment of the parents,

They project,

As you so nicely put,

Into authority figures instead.

And then they run the whole shebang with the authority figures as these weird beings that have all of the flaws or whatever,

They're not allowed,

Allowing themselves to see their parents.

So not that I'm saying we are to put authority figures on pedestals because they are people that are pooing and peeing and have flaws and have psychological issues like everybody else.

So for me,

That's part of not awakening,

That's actually maturing.

That is to see that people are people,

That authorities are people like everybody else.

And if they act in a way that they deserve our respect,

We will treat them with respect.

Similar to our parents.

If our parents treat us in a way that we can say is respectful,

Then they deserve our respect.

Otherwise,

They will just be humans doing human stuff.

And this I know this is especially American culture,

Honor your mother and your father.

Whereas in Denmark,

We have this little bit kind of more,

Yes,

You are my mother,

Yes,

You are my father.

But we have a broader foundation of psychological dynamics and psychological understanding,

Which then allows us to,

For instance,

When I've seen some groups in Denmark beginning to draw in QAnon ideas,

Or some of the conspiracy theories or what have you,

And they are dysfunctional in the Danish mindset.

Because we have this different,

I remember not long ago,

There was this little snippet from our Prime Minister that was on YouTube,

Where she was laughing,

Completely just breaking down laughing because someone said something hilarious.

And the whole the whole Folketing,

As we call it,

We're laughing.

And how many people do that?

And that was kind of,

Oh,

Why are the Prime Minister just laughing and laughing like a little kid,

Right?

So because she's human like everybody else.

So we don't have that authority,

Respect in the same manner,

Including when we go to work,

Sorry,

I need to complete this one.

When we go to work,

Yes,

We have our bosses,

But it's not yes,

Sir,

Yes,

Ma'am.

It's about that's a human like everybody else.

And if that human does not do what he or she is supposed to do,

We are allowed to speak up.

We are allowed literally to go to our boss and say,

You know what,

I don't agree with that without getting kicked out and without getting fired.

See that's lovely.

And this brings to mind,

You know,

Me,

I was against both,

You know,

Rebellious nature in my youth.

You know,

That's a common cliche too,

But it was for me.

So I was my parents,

You know,

I realized they weren't the authority figure,

But then all the other authority figures I had,

So I had an authority issues for some time,

Right?

So that's maybe I think the cultural mindset and just the way it's played out plays,

It seems like it's plays a more significant part than I thought in the States.

But this also reminds me now we're talking about kind of more grounded things here,

But now when we talk about the edges of awakening,

Maybe the more fringe areas,

Right?

So we talk about entities,

Things that are just,

You know,

The stuff TV shows are made of sometimes like this.

So now there's a dynamic for some people not wanting to be public and talking about these things because they can be painted in a certain light.

There can be kind of become an outcast,

These type of things and stigma around it as well.

But it seems like in America,

As long as you have your own business and you're making money from it,

Then it's okay.

But if you're just having a casual conversation about these things,

It's more,

I would say,

Frowned upon unless you're doing it as a reader or things like this.

And then they have to have disclaimers like this is for entertainment and things like this,

Right?

But then you have people that are on the other extreme,

Like they considered almost nut cases because they're just hammering the stuff on the extremes all day long.

And that's where this term conspiracy theory has gotten a bad rap too.

And so how we play with these different dynamics,

What is the social norms?

Are they there for a reason?

Are they there to control people?

What's acceptable?

What's not?

What should be acceptable?

What's not?

All these kinds of questions come in because this stuff can get really weird sometimes,

Right?

And the people are thinking,

Well,

Are you.

.

.

The other big thing I'll just throw out there here is even if this is not,

Let's say,

Oh,

You just saw this in a movie or things like this.

You read it in a book.

Well,

Okay,

Let's play with that for a second.

Well,

Let's say that's just a product of imagination,

But how does imagination work?

Do the people that poo-poo it and just dismiss it without investigation on their own,

Can they then tell me how imagination works?

And I say,

If they can't tell me exactly how it works,

Well,

Then that means nothing.

Their dismissal basically means nothing because they can't explain it either.

They can't explain imagination or how it has come to be.

Sorry,

Alex.

The question is kind of.

.

.

Because I might be completely off here,

But with you guys here with me,

I will pose the question.

Of course,

I would say within the Danish school system,

My experience was that I was allowed to have critical thinking,

Independent thinking.

My question is,

Are you allowed to have that in the States?

Well,

It used to be.

I'm showing my age here.

It was actually encouraged for quite some time.

What I see more and more now,

Maybe my assessment's not accurate here,

But even in higher institutions of learning now,

There's more,

I guess,

Pressure and incentive to conform to certain ideas.

I mean,

There was a little bit of that when I was in university too,

But it was kind of more veiled and hidden and they still gave some,

At least lip service to critical and independent thinking.

But now,

It seems like some people will get really ostracized for speaking out or trying to come up with original thought or critical thinking.

They're put in certain silos and certain grooves and ways of thinking.

I would say maybe even programs or just boxes and things like that.

Yeah.

I would say there's still discomfort around challenging authority figures.

You brought up a great point that I was thinking of earlier in the sense that you are more equipped here with the tools,

The psychological toolkit to feel confident enough to,

And also with the social constructs,

To question authority.

Whereas I would say even if things are getting a little bit easier,

Even just talking about these types of ideas,

Questioning authority,

Awakening in America,

I think the subliminal undertone,

It's still there of discomfort in challenging any authority figures or status quo.

There's still discomfort.

It is.

People that are in power in workplaces,

Maybe I'm wrong on this,

But if they get threatened or something,

They could pull that card and just maybe not fire you right away.

Make your life miserable.

Yeah,

Exactly.

There's all kinds of ways to do that,

To pull the power card.

It may be very subtle,

But it still happens.

There's still that power to win.

They might not even be aware that they're doing it in some senses,

Some of the things they do.

I think we got that in Denmark as well,

Because that's the personality structure.

You want power,

You want power,

You want to remain in power.

But I think the reason why I brought this up is from my viewpoint,

And of course I don't know everything in the world,

Right?

But the little things I do know and I do observe with this awakening and the woke movement in America is just as much a maturing process of the human population going into a more psychological dynamic expansion,

More than an actual awakening.

Yes,

And I think,

Well,

This is what Maslow's hierarchy of needs with its self-actualization.

I think you have to get to that top of that pyramid before you can kind of get into the true awakening processes almost,

Right?

Because that's what we're talking about,

It's more psychological processes,

Which not to be dismissed or anything,

That all has to go through,

Gone through too,

Right?

And I want to tie it into that's why the whole guide,

Guide,

Tarot cards,

Crystal,

All of these are supportive systems for the very fragile maturing process into seeing reality as it truly is.

And that is that life sucks.

Life is hard.

Being a grown up is hard.

Living this world is fucking hard.

So getting to that point,

Instead of trying to constantly finding comfort zones,

That's one of the things I have against spirituality.

I did it myself in my own process and I found it very supportive.

But when we really begin to talk about enlightenment processes or full awareness processes of the complexity of reality,

Then we must envelope everything in what it actually means to be an adult and be mature in whatever we're experiencing.

Yeah.

And for me,

I had the opposite.

I never got into the new agey stuff until later I was dealing with these dark awakenings,

So to speak.

So when I did find meditation,

It was a huge help because it kind of balanced the whole thing because yes,

There needs to be some kind of comfort zone a little bit in order to deal with some of the overwhelm that can come with this.

Because if we get too unbalanced either way,

Too much comfort zone,

There's no advancement or progression at all.

But if there's just too much challenge all the time,

Well then it's easy to break down,

Lash out,

Shut down,

And things like this.

So balancing that as well.

Think of the emotional maturation process as well.

Even if it's under the guise of the conspiracy going against authority figures,

You have betrayal or you have suspicion,

Right?

Then you have betrayal,

Anger,

Deception,

Disappointment.

And so kind of similar to what you were talking about with parents,

You're having that similar emotional process as well with the authority figures or whatever you're doing.

Because for me,

Since we don't have this huge admiration of,

For instance,

When I see American movies or American documentaries or whatever,

It's all about,

Oh,

The president we're worshiping,

Right?

Sorry for that.

Sorry about that.

But then we don't have that to the same.

We have a monarchy,

Yes,

But that's a queen,

Yes,

She smokes and she curses and she does whatever.

She's a person as well.

So we don't have this admiration of authority,

Pedestal kind of thing.

So that's for me,

And I know I'm being a little bit harsh here.

Sorry,

You guys,

And sorry Americans out there.

And actually,

I would think the alternative,

They get you the other way because I never really looked up that much to the presidents and stuff like this,

But it was the celebrities and stuff like that.

But then that gets so ridiculous.

They worship celebrities instead,

Not they,

Because I mean,

I've been in that boat too.

I've seen tons and tons of movies in my younger days,

And it was that trap of worshiping that as well.

So point being,

Because it's not just about the president,

It's about the worshiping.

It is about this giving power away,

Putting not just putting power away,

But I want to go a different direction.

This has to do with that.

When we talk about seeing things as they truly are,

We need to see people as they truly are and stop putting them up or into positions where we expect something from them.

When we worship our authorities,

We expect them to do the right thing.

We expect them to follow through with what they promise.

We expect them and all of this ties into actually what we did with our parents.

And nobody can really keep their words.

In the political system,

This is also about understanding the political system.

Say these are not heroes.

These are people that are negotiating because what are they really interested in?

Power.

They are interested in their own ambitions.

They are what we call,

What do you call it?

Career politicians.

So this has nothing to do with about governance,

Nothing to do about public service.

So that's the awakening process and the maturing process instead of constantly being angry about it.

Get your shit together,

And see.

Yeah,

Except and then figure out if you really want to make changes,

Then we have to mature and grow up ourselves instead of bitching and moaning and they are and projecting.

Go in and say,

Okay,

What difference can I then make?

What can I do to create that?

Well,

That I actually want to be a part of what is my stake in this instead of just bitching about it.

Exactly.

And the axiom I think fits really well here.

Government is not your friend,

You know?

And so then there's this is all about taking self-responsibility,

But then people will get into the trap.

Oh,

I'm just,

You know,

I'm nobody to get things done.

I need to go through the political process.

Well,

Maybe for some things,

But there are all our actions make a difference.

And it's about sitting down and honestly assessing what can I do?

What can't I do?

And then talk,

Bouncing it off friends and teachers and mentors and stuff like that to see.

And without going vigilant and become the new arrow.

Absolutely.

But what happens though,

When you get to that process,

But then you encounter limitation,

There's limitation to what you can change.

That's a whole new set of awakening,

Right?

Because you hit a,

You hit a wall or a ceiling and you can only do so much with the current system in place.

So you have to think differently,

Be innovative,

New ideas,

But it can be very challenging,

Right?

Can be very well because really as far as I know right now,

There's,

I can't really control things on the outside,

But the sense of agency that seems to be there is how do I view this and how can I respond to it?

And where do I choose to place my attention?

Now,

Those are the things that we seem to have more semblance or agency of choice in the matter.

Right?

So those things I think should be kind of maybe beefed up and worked on as much as possible.

And this is where the kind of inner work and progression work comes in.

These are the things that we can actually do no matter,

Almost any kind of circumstances that we're in,

In certain ways.

Exactly.

And that's very nice kind of step ladder we built here because we kind of go into the maturing process and then they understand the world is actually difficult.

So let's stop painting it.

Fairytale.

Yes,

Exactly.

Because it isn't.

And then come to terms with that and then come to terms where you can't rely on other people to do what needs to be done.

We need to take our responsibility as well.

And then that what is our responsibility?

And then thinking,

Oh,

I can do whatever I want to discover.

No,

There are so many limitations.

Then what can I actually do?

What do I have control of?

Where can I create change?

And that's why we go into know thyself as you put in,

Because then it goes inwardly.

Then you have pushed all of,

Try to push the outer just to experience.

That's a collective.

I can only do so much there.

Okay.

I need to go inside,

Change who and what I am and begin that process.

And that's where we go.

Exactly.

And before we even do that,

What's the point of all this?

What's the purpose?

Why is this important?

You know?

Yeah.

So yeah.

Alex,

What do you think?

There's no other choice.

You get to a point in your awakening process where there is no other choice.

You have to keep pushing in that direction.

It's an inner push that there's no other option.

Yeah.

And in a way I like that too,

Because then it's the,

When there's only one choice,

It's an easy choice to mix.

We don't have to stress out about what choices to make.

Right?

Because after a certain point it said that you can't just go back to sleep anymore.

Right?

Yeah.

And a lot of times it's really hard to,

For me to try to describe the reason and the purpose.

I think there's some universal aspects of it,

But I think it's also kind of a more personal if we're going to say that as well.

But as far as,

I don't know,

Maybe Randy can put words to this.

No,

I was actually on a little different kind of thought process.

Sure.

Continue that then.

Yeah.

The first thing when we then get disappointed with the outer realities,

Of course,

When we go inside again,

Going back to new agey things,

Where we kind of try to find comfort in the tarot cards,

The guides,

The feeling of bliss,

The feeling of,

Oh,

This is so,

And I remember that,

That was,

That was so nice.

That was good.

Feeling all this love and caring and light.

And Oh yes,

That was the best time of my life.

But I was not put aside for that.

As I keep saying,

I play a little bit upon the pawn of the old prophets,

Not that I'm a prophet at all,

But in,

In the old Testament,

It said that the prophets were put aside from,

From God to do a specific type of work that were against everything else.

Nobody's recognized in their own city,

As I said,

In the gospels,

Not that I'm religious at all.

Just to remind listeners out here,

I have a bachelor's degree in theology,

So I'm not religious.

I don't believe in God,

But there are traits of these dynamics within all religions,

Within all systems,

Within all spiritual teaching systems,

When they're all philosophical philosophy systems,

Philosophical systems.

So we find it everywhere in human history.

So I could have chosen to talk about Heraclitus or someone else that would have probably said the same thing,

But point being,

So once we get,

This is,

If we really cut out for the,

And I'm going to put in something here that might sound a little bit provoking,

But the true awakening process,

Because not everybody has the capacity to awaken,

But there are some that are set aside for it and they will go through these steps as well.

And they will also go through this new age love and light community ideas,

And many will there experience the disappointment as well.

So then we have another crisis,

Another disappointment in our inspiration,

Because we thought,

Oh,

I'll just go to the ashram,

I'll go to that community,

I'll become part of that yoga community or what have you.

And then we discover,

Yeah,

They just shitstorm each other,

They are bitching,

They are talking behind each other's back and they're throwing knives,

What have you.

And then that whole crumbles and falls.

And then what do we do then?

Because you put it on a pedestal,

Right?

Yes.

Yes.

I will.

This is,

These are all really good things.

And the bliss thing,

Yes,

If that's overdone,

Of course,

That's really not that good.

I would say though,

There still is a point for that too,

Because how dark things can get,

How stressful things can get,

What are the wholesome,

Skillful,

Wise and useful parts of the love and light that are actually helpful for waking up and which ones are a trap,

You know?

So I think that they can be a tool.

Exactly.

It's a tool.

And because a lot of people will just go back into sensuality,

Right?

Just get more,

More food,

More,

More sex,

More entertainment,

More shopping,

You know,

Immerse themselves in the world or of being of the world instead of in it.

So I think some of these really high states of bliss and joy and peace,

They can also,

If they're done right,

They can actually be a support for awakening.

But if done wrong,

They can be their own trap,

Right?

Another addiction.

Completely.

Yeah,

Exactly.

And that's so the other thing.

No,

But let me put it here because that's that kind of story I want to put in a little bit because it all depends on where we begin our spiritual journey,

So to speak,

Our awakening process.

Because as a kid,

I was not that I was awakened or awake as a kid,

Because that's the child brain.

So you can't really say was I awoke as a child,

But I was definitely highly sensitive,

Highly understanding of levels,

Which I didn't understand because I hadn't got the vocabulary for it.

I didn't have the thought forms for it.

But I observed and I could see some things that didn't add up.

And then for me,

It has always been this sub current of a sadness and existential sadness.

So what I did was I had one cat at a time,

But my cats used to give me a lot of love that was very comforting,

A kind of love I couldn't get from my parents because they were busy with their own stuff.

And I was this weird kid,

I was on my own.

So my life has been very on my own,

In touch with nature where I find kind of this fulfilling what people experience as bliss.

I felt that in nature.

I felt the caring for my cats that took care of me when I was sad,

They would come up and curl up into,

You know,

People who have animals,

They know this emotional support animal.

Exactly.

And then at the same time,

Already having these type of meditative processes where I went in and made myself blank already as a kid,

Because I could just feel the thought processes were too overwhelming.

So I learned to nullify all of these processes and just observe and absorb and just be in it and be more investigative because clearly,

I had no one to go to to ask the questions to get the answers.

So I had to figure a lot of stuff out for myself.

Yes.

And this is brilliant,

Because this works in with the characteristics of existence and their doors to awakening.

So the one with talk about like a not self,

You know,

This kind of,

Oh,

I'm kind of pointless and meaningless in this world and no one's here for me.

That can actually lead to an understanding of emptiness that,

You know,

Although as bad as everything is and is as shitty as it seems a lot of times,

It's really if you if one really investigates that there's no lasting substance to it's empty of any real lasting substance.

So that emptiness can actually be like a relief from this.

And then the stress and the suffering and stuff like that,

That can lead to the I'm going backwards here,

But they can lead to the notion of what do they call it?

Not having a lot of preferences in life,

Because the more we want things to be a certain way,

The more likely we're going to have these expectations,

The more they're kind of going to get,

You know,

Knocked down or,

You know,

Even lead to more unsatisfactoriness in this changeable nature of things.

That's the other mark is that things are in a constant state of flux and undergoing changeability.

So I forget this one.

This is called signlessness.

And I don't know really know how to talk about that gate to awakening,

But people are interested.

They can look that up.

So apparently I have some work to do on that one.

I think you guys touched on something really important,

And that's the grief that comes with the awakening process.

The grief of losing your old paradigms,

Losing your old life,

Your old friends,

Too.

Yeah,

For sure.

At a human level,

Friends,

Security,

A sense of security and safety in a world that you thought might have been safe.

So I think that grief process is something that you probably encounter multiple times.

The same truth.

Truth can destroy the world you used to live in.

Right.

Yeah.

But this is this is the interesting thing,

Because I already lost that as a child.

I lost that very,

Very early.

Yes.

So that's that's kind of where I stand out a little bit.

I know there are others that have experienced that as well.

But when I work with the ones that are doing my classes and the materials,

They have to take that process as grown ups.

And I did it as a kid.

It was a clear realization.

These parents,

Yeah,

They brought me into this world.

But by the way,

What am I doing here?

I'm not supposed to be here.

Right.

First step.

And secondly,

Looking at my mom saying,

Yeah,

I'm not getting to go much,

Get much from that person.

So I became my mom's mom.

And with my father,

Yeah,

He could.

But now he hasn't he hasn't got the energy,

The capacity for it.

So that that was an early loss of having I lost my parents early on.

So they were there physically,

But they were not there emotionally.

Right.

So so so that's the grief of losing very early.

And of course,

Later on as a psychotherapist,

When I went through my professional education,

And all of these personal sessions where I walked through these recap,

What you call recuperating,

Recalibrate,

Recalibrate,

Looking into it again in ways,

Different variations where I then got instead of the child perception of it,

I got the grown up perception.

Okay,

What was that actually about?

And then I can see now after having done so much inner work that it ties actually into my old Buddhist incarnation where I already lost these features of being in the world and being part of the world and being submerged into the world.

I lost that ages ago.

So therefore,

Of course,

I'm born into a family setting that does not provide me to get submerged,

But provides for me to actually get distant.

So I kept so I get to see things as they truly are,

There's nothing here for you.

And that's part of the existential sadness.

Yes.

And that's the to see and know that suffering in order to,

You know,

Wait to end it in a way.

So this goes into the probability that we talked about the beginning.

So what do you what do you guys think about?

So you talked a little bit before Randy about this is not probable for some people,

And you just highlighted that too.

So I guess the big things that come up were around that is like,

I don't know if you could put a percentage on it or what,

Like,

What percentage of,

You know,

Or what amount of maybe just what we call humans from day to day could possibly actually do this,

Which couldn't.

And then once we kind of doesn't need to be a set number or anything like this,

I guess the more important question would be for those that it doesn't seem really that possible.

What can they and ought they to do if they were to come to someone like you or us for advice?

And what about the people that do have the potential for doing this?

And what maybe are some advice and guidelines for what they ought to do?

Yeah.

Well,

When I come out to go about it,

Basically,

Yes,

But that's that's impossible to answer all of your questions there.

There is absolutely no answer to that cookie cutter because that's linear thinking.

So when I say probability is we're more talking about actually what we call high order potentials.

We're talking about a probability rate for awakening of the human civilization as a whole and not individual humans and not in the kind of if people come and ask,

Can I awake and I will as the kind of with the old Buddhist monk approach say,

Well,

If you ask that question,

You have already got your answer.

And if you come and ask,

What am I to do to awake?

I will say,

Since you asked that question,

You already got the answer.

So is there a tipping point though?

Right?

Is there a tipping point or there needs to be 30% of people awakening before it has a massive effect?

Anything like this?

No,

It depends on the individuals.

I would say what we actually when we talk about probability,

We would say the ones that do have the potentials in built in them and are already on the path of awakening.

I would rather say they should be the focus point,

Not the ones that are not there yet.

They will come eventually.

There are different waves as it's called.

But the ones that are in the process of awakening,

They for me and I might be wrong,

But if I were to create a perfect scenario of how would I like things to be,

I would say the ones that are already awakening and know they are awakening and are getting information from within on what they need to do.

They need to pay much more attention to follow through with what they get of inter guidance,

What need to follow through with.

I know what's right.

I know what's wrong.

Why am I still fucking do what I know what's wrong and start doing what feels right and is right.

This is a really good point.

Now,

I would say,

Though,

At one point,

The inner guidance I was getting,

I wouldn't even call it inner guidance.

It was kind of a,

You know,

The thinking mind going off the rails.

Okay.

So that's not what we're talking about.

The normal mind is telling you.

Inner guidance will start as distortion.

Yeah.

Complete distortion.

So that's a good one you put in there.

Yes.

Yes.

Because the ones that actually have the true potentials for awakening,

They will quickly kick in with discernment themselves.

They will self adjust quickly on their own merits and by their own devices.

They do not need teachers.

They do not need our source to tell them what to do.

They already know what to do.

But if within that same group,

We also have the older that are so with so many superiority issues that they know everything.

Right.

They are much better than everybody else.

So that's where it plays into being humble.

So now we're suddenly in a completely different discussion.

Because when we ask about who can we teach people to awaken?

No.

No.

But how do you how do you address the distortions?

Anything to say towards the part?

Is that what you mean by the authority kind of thing?

That's what you meant by distortions for the inner guidance.

It starts off.

No,

I mean that when you begin this,

I did that as well.

You go into the subconscious,

You go into the actual plane,

You will get nothing but distortions.

Yes.

Everything you'll get there will be distortion.

So that's the big mistake.

At the same time,

It seems like,

Oh,

This is really useful.

This is amazing.

But then the proofs in the pudding,

Though,

Sometimes if they follow that,

Then it doesn't pay off,

It actually can turn into disaster.

So that at that point,

It's really critical to say,

OK,

Well,

How do I course correct and not just give up and totally disregard my inner guidance and then go on to look outside myself?

So I think that was a critical point for me,

That turning point.

But if I'm remembering right,

It just kind of happened naturally.

It went from more distortions to less distortions.

And then finally,

Some some credible things internally.

I think a lot of it has to do with self-confidence,

Too,

With the humility,

Balanced with humility,

Too.

Right.

And the self-adjusting process.

Self-adjusting.

Choices.

It's all about those choices.

And I think you start starting to get that awareness around your choice making.

Right.

So you start you start to awaken,

You start to see that the results of your choice making,

Whether it's good or bad.

So you start making a couple of good choices,

Maybe one bad choice,

Get knocked back a bit.

And I think it really does come down to that uber awareness of your choices,

Even the smallest of things.

What are you eating for breakfast?

How are you reacting to a situation?

Those little choices start to accumulate over time.

Yes,

It can't be stated enough because I broke that off for a little bit.

But drop by drop,

The water buckets full.

We think,

Oh,

Well,

I just do a little bad thing here and no harm will come to me.

But if keep time after time again,

That that will fill up a bucket or whatever.

So this notion,

This perception that everything is important,

Even if it's not really important,

It still can condition other moments and lead to other choices along the same ideas or just how we view those choices,

Too.

Because you're creating patterns with your choices.

Exactly.

So,

Yeah,

I'm kind of there.

Okay.

Yes.

What else to address?

I think we've covered the kind of generalities of just kind of what can be said publicly about awakening.

Is there anything else anybody would like to add to this?

Otherwise,

I think we're going to wrap this one up.

I think it's a good conversation.

I'm kind of good here.

Yeah.

All right.

Well,

Thank you,

Gals.