I Am That - Session 86 - Living Is Life's Only Purpose - 3

Listen to Ektaji talk about Nisargadatta Maharaj's book I Am That. Nisargadatta Maharaj was a teacher who did not propound any ideology or religion, but gently unwrapped the mystery of the Self. 'I Am That' preserves his dialogs with the followers who came from around the world seeking guidance in destroying false identities. It was his mission to guide the individual to an understanding of his true nature and the timelessness of Being.

Transcript

You say still you seem to be a very practical man in full control of your immediate surroundings.

Maharaj says what else do you expect me to be?

A misfit?

Yet you cannot help another much.

Maharaj says surely I can help.

You too can help.

Everybody can help but the suffering is all the time recreated.

Man alone can destroy in himself the roots of pain.

Others can only help with the pain but not with its cause which is the abysmal stupidity of mankind.

Tell me how is it recreated?

Yes,

Again and again I become the person,

I recreate suffering again and again and again and again.

When I'm not the person,

When I'm at a distance there is no suffering,

No suffering.

So man alone can destroy in himself the yourself can destroy this.

How?

Yes and completely divorcing the person.

I got nothing to do with this person.

This person works automatically per the flow.

Then only you will be free of pain otherwise you will be constantly in pain if you get into doership and experiencership.

Clear?

Others can only help with the pain but not with its cause which is the abysmal stupidity of mankind.

Yeah,

Thinking that I'm the body-mind person is stupidity.

Questioner,

Will this ever come to an end?

Maharaj says,

In man,

Of course,

Any moment.

In humanity as we know it,

After very many years.

But in creation,

Never.

For creation itself is rooted in ignorance.

Where is this world?

In the mind.

Yes and that is ignorance.

When I think of it as the world,

When I just think of it as waves of perception,

Sensation,

Thought and feeling and I have to be at a distance from them,

Then there is no ignorance.

The moment I jump in and think it is the world,

That world or creation itself is ignorance.

Matter itself is ignorance.

Next sentence is important.

Not to know and not to know that one does not know is the cause of endless suffering.

Please highlight.

Till the time you didn't come here and you were lost in that world of ignorance out there and you considered yourself to be the body-mind,

You did not know your reality.

Yes and that time you didn't even know that you don't know.

Correct?

So that's what it is.

Not to know and not to know that one does not know.

Did that become clear,

Both of these?

Not to know and not to know that one does not know is the cause of endless suffering.

Questioner,

We are told of the great avatars,

The saviors of the world.

Maharaj says,

Did they save?

They have come and gone and the world plods on.

Of course,

They did a lot and opened new dimensions in the human mind.

But the talk of saving the world is an exaggeration.

So questioner says,

Is there no salvation for the world?

Maharaj says,

Which world do you want to save?

Where is the world?

Tell me,

Where is it?

Why is he laughing at this guy?

Because it is all in the mind.

It is only a mental modification.

There is no world out there.

So which world do you want to save?

The world of your own projection?

Save it yourself.

My world?

Show me my world and I shall deal with it.

I am not aware of any world separate from myself which I am free to save or not to save.

Which I am free to save or not to save.

What business have you with saving the world when all the world needs is to be saved from you.

The world needs to be saved from you.

You are the biggest tyrant,

The destroyer of the world.

You are the one who's projecting the world.

You need to quit projection.

That's all.

The world needs to be saved from you.

Who are you to go and try to save somebody in this world or to try to save the world?

Please quit doing that.

Just withdraw from the world.

It will be safe.

Get out of the picture and see whether there is anything left to save.

The moment you remove the person,

You recognize the person is only a wave that suddenly comes,

Goes,

Comes,

Goes,

Comes,

Goes.

Is there a world left?

Is there a world left?

Where is this person come and go,

Come and go?

Where?

In this witnessing space of awareness.

Yes?

Then is there a world left out there?

What do you see then?

What are they?

They are just waves,

Just waves,

Just waves.

Where is the world left in?

There is no world left.

There is only now and then the next now and the next now and then there is just the now and there's just one wave in every now.

Just one wave.

Which world are you going to save?

The one created in memory by tying all these perception,

Sensation,

Thought,

Feeling together?

You're going to go and save memory?

Please quit projecting.

The world needs to be saved from you.

You are the one creating all the havoc.

You are the source of suffering yourself.

So get out of this whole mentality.

You are here to save the world.

You are here to put a smile on a million faces.

You are here to create a happy world.

All stories.

Get out of that.

Very immature thinking,

He says.

All stories.

All stories.

All stories.

It's like believing that story which is there in the book to be true.

You have no proof.

Forget that.

You have no proof.

This that you call your body was ever born.

You have no proof that you had a childhood,

That you went to school.

You have no proof that you got married or you had children.

You have proof only of the now.

And then that is gone.

And then there is the next now.

And then that is gone.

And then there is the next now.

And then that is gone.

Where is the proof?

There is just the now.

And it's gone.

There is just the now.

And it's gone.

So the truth is only silence.

That's why he told you,

I'm in silence.

There is only one truth.

Silence.

Yeah,

When you see this,

That there is no world out there,

There is no person here,

Then you cannot but be silent.

So he says get out of the picture and see whether there is anything left to see.

You have to see it.

Once you see it,

You cannot unsee it.

Get out of the picture and see whether there is anything left to see.

You seem to stress the point that without you,

Your world would not have existed.

And therefore,

The only thing you can do for it is to wind up the show.

This is not a way out.

Even if the world were of my own creation,

This knowledge does not save it.

It only explains it.

The question remains,

Why did I create such a wretched world?

And what can I do to change it?

You seem to say forget it all and admire your own glory.

Surely you don't mean it.

The description of a disease and its causes does not cure it.

What we need is the right medicine.

The description and causation are the remedy for a disease caused by obtuseness and stupidity.

Obtuseness,

Unintelligent way of thinking,

Dull-wittedness.

Just like a deficiency disease is cured through the supply of the missing factor,

So are the diseases of living cured by a good dose of intelligent detachment,

Which is viveka-vairagya.

He is saying that this world that I have projected,

Why have I projected a wretched world?

And what you are explaining,

This knowledge,

It's only an explanation for it.

How will it cure the world?

How will it cure the disease?

He is saying this world that you have projected,

You have projected out of your stupidity.

So what will cure stupidity is only intelligence.

Description is sufficient to remove the stupidity.

Your stupidity is the ignorance,

The feeling that I am this body and that there is a world out there and not seeing the reality as it is.

You are missing those glimpses which keep knocking at you.

Again and again you feel,

Is this real?

Is this really happening?

Don't you feel this?

Every now and then.

Did I really do this?

Yeah.

You feel that,

Oh,

I didn't do this,

But then I have to take ownership.

So many times you feel that I'm supposed to feel like this in this situation because others expect me to,

But I'm not feeling it.

There is no experiencership.

So many glimpses show you the truth,

But you ignore all of that and you falsely believe I am this body and you falsely believe this body is in a world.

You refuse to see the truth that you are witnessing and it's not that the witness was created five days ago on this retreat.

The witnessing was always there with you.

Yeah.

You always knew it,

But you ignored it.

You wanted to believe this is the one that I am.

You ignored this witnessing space.

So it is your stupidity,

Your unintelligent way of thinking that is the disease and stupidity can only be cured by intelligent explanation and proper viveka.

Viveka is to weed out the illusion from reality.

That is viveka.

Is it clear?

Then vairagya comes up automatically.

Questioner,

You cannot save the world by preaching councils of perfection.

People are as they are.

Must they suffer?

Maharaj says,

As long as they are as they are,

There is no escape from suffering.

Till the time you think I am the body mind person,

You will suffer.

Period.

There is no way out for you.

Very simple.

Remove the sense of separateness and there will be no conflict.

What is the sense of separateness that you have?

I and you.

I and the world.

I and the other.

This is the sense of separateness.

Till the time there is the sense of separateness,

There will be conflict.

When you remove it,

There is no conflict.

Questioner,

A message in print may be paper and ink only.

It is the text that matters.

By analyzing the world into elements and qualities,

We miss the most important,

Its meaning.

Your reduction of everything to dream disregards the difference between the dream of an insect and the dream of a poet.

All is dream,

Granted,

But not all are equal.

Maharaj says,

The dreams are not equal,

But the dreamer is one.

Do you see it?

The dreams are not equal,

But the dreamer is one.

I am the insect.

I am the poet in the dream.

But in reality,

I am neither.

I am beyond all dreams.

I am the light in which all dreams appear and disappear.

How many of you recognize this in your Swapna Nidranyana Sadhana?

I am the light in which dreams appear and disappear.

Yes,

Very good.

I am both inside and outside the dream.

Just as a man having headache knows the ache and also knows that he is not the ache,

So do I know the dream,

Myself dreaming and myself not dreaming,

All at the same time.

Do you know this?

All three at the same time.

What are they?

I know the dream,

I know myself dreaming and I know myself not dreaming.

First there is the dream and then I feel I am the dream character and then suddenly I recognize,

No,

I'm witnessing the dream.

I am not in the dream and the dream collapses.

So you know all three?

Super.

Please continue in your SNGs tonight.

Those who have not yet seen it,

Take it down as a task.

I am what I am,

Before,

During and after the dream.

But what I see in dream,

I am not.

Has that become clear?

Regarding sleeping dream,

What about the waking dream?

What you see in dream,

Are you this?

Have you become clear about this,

That you are not this?

Work on that part.

Yes,

I have only four days to go now.

Yes,

Retreat is coming to an end.

Yeah,

Let me become very clear.

This is a waking dream.

This is a waking screen,

Waking dream screen.

Can I recognize this is a part of this waking dream screen and I am not this?

Swapna Nidra Gyan Sadhana is not just for the sleeping dream and deep sleep,

It is for the waking dream as well.

The Swapna part in Swapna Nidra Gyan Sadhana is for the waking dream and sleeping dream.

Both are one.

And in both,

That which I think I am,

I am not.

Let's take this down as a task to recognize in both.

What I see in dream,

I am not.

Questioner says,

It is all a matter of imagination.

One imagines that one is dreaming,

Another imagines one is not dreaming.

Are not both the same?

Maharaj says the same and not the same.

Not dreaming as an interval between two dreams is of course a part of dreaming.

Not dreaming as a steady hold on and timeless abidance in reality has nothing to do with dreaming.

In that sense,

I never dream nor ever shall.

Means what?

Where is he established?

In reality,

In primordial awareness.

From there,

I never dream.

I never ever shall.

Because never is there a feeling that I am this body-mind person.

Yeah,

He's completely divorced the body-mind person.

There is never a feeling that I'm the body-mind person.

So there is never that feeling that I am in the dream.

Is that clear?

That is what he's saying.

That is the timeless abidance in reality.

Yeah,

Just your gap between dreams is also a dream,

He said.

And I explained yesterday,

What is the gap between two dreams?

Yeah,

Deep sleep what?

The vritti.

The deep sleep vritti.

What was it called?

Tamo vritti.

Yeah,

You're still in the dream.

Now you'll start seeing waking is also a dream.

Sleeping dream is anyway a dream,

But deep sleep is also a dream.

I am still in the dream.

Tamo vritti.

The absence.

Yeah,

You remember yesterday's chapter when you say I am,

That is also a problem.

When you say I am not,

That is also a problem.

You're still stuck.

What is the truth?

I am,

Yet I am not.

Those who didn't get it,

Slowly,

Slowly,

Swapna nidra jnan sadhana will blossom.

Yeah,

Slowly.

If both dream and escape from dream are imaginings,

What is the way out?

Maharaj,

There is no need of a way out.

Don't you see that a way out is also a part of the dream?

All you have to do is to see the dream as dream.

Is this very clear?

Yeah,

You cannot escape from it.

That's why people ask Buddha got enlightened at 36.

How he lived till 82?

Why was the projection there?

Why?

Because there is no way out.

Whatever was done before,

Those seeds are sprouting.

They are sprouting slowly.

You can't stand on their head.

No,

You sprout today and right now.

No,

It's got its own time to sprout.

So,

You will have to go through the entire dream.

So,

Is there a way out of the dream?

There is no way out.

You cannot get out.

There is only one way.

You wake up.

You recognize it is a dream.

That's it.

You quit suffering.

Yeah,

When you see it is a mirage,

Do you run behind it?

No,

You don't run behind the mirage anymore.

You know it's a mirage.

It's not water anymore.

Why should I run behind it?

It's an illusion.

Is that clear?

If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a dream,

Where will it lead me?

Maharaj says,

Wherever it leads you,

It will be a dream.

The very idea of going beyond the dream is illusory.

Why go anywhere?

Just realize that you are dreaming a dream that you call the world and stop looking for ways out.

The dream is not your problem.

Your problem is that you like one part of your dream and not the other.

That is your problem.

Love all or none of it and stop complaining.

When you have seen the dream as a dream,

You have done all that needs to be done.

Then it's very simple.

Yeah,

Then you don't jump and you don't indulge.

You got nothing to do with the person.

The flow continues.

It's doing what it's doing.

It's none of my business.

Yeah,

Chill out.

I enjoy the dream now.

That's what you're supposed to do.

Don't try to look for a way out.

There is none.

You cannot escape it.

You cannot escape it.

Yeah,

So that illusion that people have that if this person is enlightened,

Then how come he's still living?

Why is there a family still?

Why is there?

No,

No.

You have a wrong idea of enlightenment then.

Enlightenment is simply seeing that it is a dream and staying at a distance.

Not getting involved and considering the dream to be reality.

Because considering the dream to be reality is stupidity.

Once you become intelligent,

You cannot become stupid again.

Do you realize this?

Once you become educated,

You cannot become uneducated again.

You cannot go back again.

Like that only when you become intelligent and you see reality,

You cannot become stupid again.

It's like that.

That's it.

That is all that enlightenment is.

You're not going to grow wings.

There's not going to be a halo on your head.

There's not going to be shimmering lights and you're not going to walk on water.

Yeah,

All these things are false.

There is no great energy that is going to flow.

Somewhat snake-like energy.

Nothing like that is happening.

Forget about it.

Every means that limits you to the waking and forces you to believe that you are the waker should be discarded.

It's wrong.

Because you will never go to Turiya and forget about Turiyatita.

You'll never get there.

Because you're holding on so tightly to the waking state and the waker.

You are not the waker is enlightenment.

A spiritual shop does not want you to get to enlightenment because you're the source of their income.

So they want you to believe that you the waker can get enlightened,

Which is not a possibility because the waker is not.

You see it?

That spiritual shopkeeper also belongs to your waking state,

No?

He has not seen the truth.

How can he take you to the truth?

Dekha.

When you have seen the dream as a dream,

You have done all that needs to be done.

Vairagya group,

Write this down as the goal.

When you have seen the dream as a dream,

You have done all that needs to be done.

There has to be a point where you stop the effort.

And then you see that it runs automatically after that.

Viveka is cultivated.

Viveka is where you put effort on.

Vairagya cannot be cultivated.

You cannot make an effort to become a Vairagya.

It automatically runs.

Questioner.

Is dreaming caused by thinking?

Maharaj,

Everything is a play of ideas.

In the state free from ideation,

Which is Nirvikalpa Samadhi,

Nothing is perceived.

The root idea is I am.

It shatters the state of pure consciousness and is followed by the innumerable sensations and perceptions,

Feeling and ideas,

Which in their totality constitute God and His world.

The I am remains as the witness,

But it is by the will of God that everything happens.

Questioner.

Why not by my will?

Maharaj,

Again,

You have split yourself into God and witness.

Both are one.

Has this dream come about by thinking?

So what did Maharaj say?

It is nothing but ideas,

Basically your own projection.

How did you project it?

You will see in your Samadhi.

From the absolute nothingness,

Like a chicken hatches out of the egg,

You will see the I come out of nothingness.

It emerges out of nothingness as if breaking through,

Destroying the pure consciousness,

Eggshell.

It comes out,

The I is there and then it creates all the ideas,

Including the idea of God and it projects the whole world.

So the whole world,

The whole creation that you see is created by that God.

So the questioner who doesn't understand this and has not reached Nirvikalpa Samadhi or has even done Samadhi,

So he gets confused.

So he says,

Why not by my will?

Why by God's will?

So he said,

Okay,

You misunderstood.

That I that came out,

What is it?

It is God itself.

It has created everything.

It attaches to perception,

Sensation,

Thought and feeling.

There is no God out there.

The Sakshi itself is Ishwar.

That is what is the Marathi sentence there.

Both are one.

Now this is your next task,

Those who are doing Samadhi.

Attempt to go to that space of absolute nothingness,

Nobodiness,

Nothingness,

Silence,

Where even the I has collapsed.

There is nothing.

It is not the state,

Stage where the I is looking for something.

That's not correct.

Where even the I has collapsed,

That is nothingness.

Is that clear?

From that,

When it comes back up,

That is what he's talking about.

It destroys the pure happiness,

The pure consciousness and comes up.

That is the God and it projects perception,

Sensation,

Thought and feeling in your Samadhi,

Spoiling it.

The world is manifest.

Is this clear?

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