Releasing The Need For Control

In this week’s episode of Stay Grounded, host Raj Jana explores the journey of surrender and flow with serial entrepreneur, executive coach, and consciousness explorer Devon Kerns. Key topics include: Devon’s mystical experience at age 13 set him on the spiritual path, using the heart’s intelligence versus the thinking mind. Recognizing we are receivers, not doers in the flow of life. Releasing control and the need to “try”. Honoring all of life’s experiences as part of the divine dance. Integration versus evangelism – respecting each soul’s journey. Devon’s daily spiritual practice keeps him anchored in the presence.
Please note: This track may include some explicit language.

Transcript

The heart is where I have experienced the divine infinite now,

The expansiveness of this present moment,

Where literally it's almost like a superpower,

Where you can bend time.

You're an infinite soul on an endless timeline.

Yeah.

I totally get it.

And you can access all that ever was and all that ever is and pull it and collapse it here.

Welcome to the Stay Grounded Podcast.

I'm your host,

Raj Jhana,

Founder of Liberate,

And it's my mission to help you become the most grounded,

Loving,

And authentic version of yourself that you can be.

Each week,

I interview experts in the fields of mindset,

Spirituality,

And emotional well-being.

My brilliant guests share their tools,

Stories,

And unique perspectives to help you develop the skills you need to show up fully for the people and things that matter most in your life.

Now let's dive in.

What's up,

Everyone?

Raj here,

And welcome to this very special episode of Stay Grounded with my new friend,

Mr.

Devin Kearns.

So Devin is a badass.

This conversation was actually really fun for me to record.

Devin and I met at a one-day mastermind in Boulder,

And we had one conversation and we looked at each other,

All right,

We need to go deeper.

And this podcast is a result of that one first interaction.

And after I read Devin's bio,

You're going to understand why he's just such a boss.

So Devin has over 25 years in business,

Over 11,

000 hours of experience logged coaching and consulting for political leaders and Fortune 500 executives,

While also diving deep into his own spiritual path through meditation and plant medicine.

And this conversation was just really deep.

And you can only have this depth of a conversation with somebody who has done that much of their own work.

And that's what I really feel from Devin.

I can feel the depth of his own commitment to this path,

To this path of awakening,

To this path of learning,

To access the depths of wisdom within himself.

And we talk about so many things,

Everything around using the heart's intelligence versus using the mind,

How to let go of the need for control,

Which is truly a function of the mind.

Because the heart,

If you think about the wisdom of the heart,

It's expansive,

It's connected to everything.

It's pretty unpredictable,

But the mind is calculated.

The mind tries to create structure.

It tries to make sense of things.

And so the journey of releasing control is really the journey of going from the head to the heart.

And we talk a lot about that on this week's episode.

We talk a lot about letting go of the need to try how to honor all of life's experiences and really truly create,

Step into the dance of life and so much more.

I mean,

This conversation was really a conversation of flow,

Conversation of accessing deeper levels of connectedness and aliveness and just creativity and creation and living a deep,

Nourishing and fulfilling life.

And I just really appreciated this chat live with Devin.

And I hope you guys do too.

So if you haven't already subscribed to the show on iTunes,

Spotify,

Or any of the podcast apps,

All that means is that every single time we release a new episode,

It drops straight into your inbox.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube,

Wherever you're choosing to tune in.

I'm just so grateful that you're here.

And I am just excited for you to get to experience just another rad,

Rad,

Rad human being that has come on the show because you have given the show a platform.

So thank you for your trust.

Thank you for your love.

Thank you for your messages and kind words.

And without further ado,

Here is the amazing Mr.

Devin Kearns.

Enjoy.

Yo,

Yo.

What's up,

Everyone?

Welcome to this week's special episode of Stay Grounded with my brother,

Devin.

Hey,

Brother.

It's good to be here.

So good.

Man,

What a gift this is.

Fast friendship,

Huh?

I think that's the way we work,

Right?

It's funny,

Guys.

For everyone context,

Devin and I are sitting in a one-day mastermind.

And in the mastermind,

They do like speed dating as the way of us getting to know each other.

And the second I sat across from Devin,

We started talking.

I was like,

Dude,

I really need to have you on the show.

And immediately,

He was like,

I've been thinking the same thing.

And so here we are.

And it's so great,

Bro.

It's just,

It's been amazing to have the deepening of the conversations before the mic even went on.

And I'm really excited about where we get to go today.

Same,

Same.

Yeah,

It's one of those encounters that seem to be happening more often than not these days when you're just in the flow of things and open.

You tend to come across those direct alignments and you just know.

What has been your journey to getting into that flow?

That's a loaded question.

Or what's true?

Maybe what was the thing that was always getting in the way from you of just getting into flow?

My need to get there.

You,

Before going live,

You started with an intention.

And for those that may not know that half of it,

I think it's brilliant.

One,

To ground,

Hence the name.

And two,

There was always this itch that I think a part of it is being an Aquarius,

A part of it is being a visionary,

A part of it is our society that we're never there yet.

So to always try and get there has been my greatest block because I was never here for most people.

And it wasn't until 2017 in my first ayahuasca journey where I discovered what here is.

And when I found here,

It rearranged all of the gifts that I thought were my natural gifts like vision.

Into a present moment where vision is my only gift to see what exists outside of our time and space that I get to create in time and space.

So I have access to see that which is wanting to come into fruition,

That which wants to be created.

And I get to let it flow through me in every given moment instead of participating in the not there yet,

Which just has this scratching and clawing and this story that we read books about,

That we create movies about around how it has to be hard.

And I gave up on the hard aspect of creating and just allowed the process to flow through me.

And it was such a gift,

Such a gift.

It's almost like we wear the heart as a badge of honor.

Totally.

Right,

Like we have all these scripts and these programs that tell us that things are supposed to be a certain way.

And we've,

Instead of entertaining an easier way,

We've actually learned to just almost like find pleasure in that.

Totally.

And it's this weird cycle.

So that's why it's so refreshing to actually like meet people who are taking themselves out of that paradigm and putting themselves into one that is more conscious and connected and ease.

Like when you look at nature,

Nature is just,

There's a flow to nature.

There's a flow to this whole creation that was happening before we were alive and it will be happening after we die.

And for us to think that there's anywhere further along that we need to be and where we are right now is I think the root of a lot of our suffering.

I believe it is one of the core roots of our suffering.

And then you tag on judgment and shame.

And that's where I think that triad creates all that disease and lack of alignment and not there yet and brokenness.

Do you think there's a,

Like when you say judgment and shame,

Do you think they're two in the same thing or are they different?

Judgment can be,

Both judgment and shame can be projected.

But I think a lot of people internalize self-judgment and then it can get transformed into shame.

Whereas judgment can also just be projected,

Right?

You're doing the wrong thing the wrong way at the wrong time.

And most of that comes from the external which is how we learn to do it on the internal and then it leads to shame,

Feelings of shame or guilt.

One of the things you mentioned before we started recording was just how it doesn't matter.

Like,

I don't remember how you said it,

But you said it brilliantly around like the only true path is the path of awakening or like the one going inward.

Because it doesn't matter what's true outside.

Can you speak to that again?

I don't remember how you said it,

But it was so,

I think it's connected to what you're saying right now versus like the external judgment versus just the internal.

The way I was describing it and I always say this out loud and I'm never really certain if it makes a whole lot of sense,

But I hope it does.

So let's say I'm talking to some of my atheist friends or if I'm talking to some of my spiritual friends or religious friends.

If there is a single consciousness,

A God,

That we are all divinely connected to,

Which happens to be a part of my knowing,

But there's also the part of me that knows that I don't know.

But let's assume there is a single consciousness and as a being who is given the gift of awareness,

That awareness allows for me to see that if I want the things around me to change,

As Dr.

Wayne Dyer put it,

If I want the things around me to change,

I have to change the way I look at those things,

Which means it's solely up to me to shift my internal awareness and dialogue to then observe the world differently and transfer my energy out of victimhood into ownership.

On the flip side,

If there is no singularity,

There is no consciousness,

There is no God and we are just meat suits walking around on the planet,

But I want things to change,

It is solely up to me to change.

And so it doesn't really matter which end of the spectrum you're coming from,

Whether you believe in a singularity or you believe that we are just random happenstance on this rock flying through the universe,

If you are complaining about things and you want things to change,

You must be that.

And so within that,

I feel like the judgment that was projected onto it,

All those old stories,

All the things that supposedly have us stuck,

I can bring awareness to those things and I wanna honor the suffering that people go through,

I've been there,

But at the same time,

At some point I gotta let go.

And instead of being a victim and instead of allowing the past judgment of self or by other or past shame or guilt to be keeping me in a state of victimhood,

I need to surrender to it,

Release it energetically and choose my ownership over my awareness of my habitual nature and my stuckness in that and then be devoted and dedicated to things that will serve me from this point forward.

Because if I do that,

There is a saying that came to me during one of my Ayahuasca journeys and that was,

When I see me,

You will see you.

I love me,

You will love you.

It is only through my process of going within can another go through that same process.

Man,

You've said so much in there,

I don't even know which direction to go right now,

But it's fine.

And the way you're describing it,

I mean,

You take spirituality out of it,

That is just like living a virtuous life,

Like it's stepping into your greatest expression.

It has nothing,

Like the spirituality are just tools,

They're philosophies and concepts and frames that you can use to create meaning,

But at the end of the day,

Like if you want something in your life,

Whether it's more joy,

More gratitude,

More things to be grateful for,

Whatever the frequency of thing you want,

It comes back to your internal state and when you shift your internal state,

You have the capacity to see a different world.

It's almost like you can't solve the same problem or you can't solve a problem with the same consciousness that created it.

So we're just swimming in dirty fishbowls right now,

Trying to be better and better and better,

Unless we pull ourselves out of that into cleaner waters,

We can't actually even imagine a better life.

So I can't think of a more important gift to give yourself than to elevate the way that you see yourself and to elevate the way that you see things around you.

Why do you think people are so resistant?

Like where does the resistance come from to something that does have actually like so much fulfillment?

Like we know this,

Like we've been on the path.

Yeah,

I look at my life and I'm like,

Wow,

I love my life now.

And I'm trying to look back like 10 years ago,

How would I have sold this to- You 10 years ago?

Yeah.

Well,

There's a lot of fulfillment in the other side too.

There's fulfillment and not needing to take responsibility.

There might be more fulfillment than that,

Because then I can always be in victim mode and be the consequence and mercy of things around me.

The minute I take ownership,

I actually have to do something about it.

And so there is a level of fulfillment in this forgetting,

This lack of awareness,

Because I really do believe,

We touched on this earlier,

And I didn't come here for enlightenment.

I just didn't.

I love messing things up.

I love the pain I've been through.

And it's been a hell of a journey to have watched my dad,

Who took his life when I was 13 years old and lost several other people within about a year.

At 13,

To observe that level of suffering in my dad,

Who couldn't lighten up about life and became so dense in the forgetting of his choice,

At least for me and what I believe as a soul to participate in this humanness,

I watched the light trickle out of him.

And at such a young age,

It actually invigorated a spark in me.

Part of why I am and who I am today to go light that spark up again in people who have forgotten that we didn't come here for perfection.

I didn't come here for enlightenment.

I came here to screw shit up and to put it back together and see what happens.

And there's beauty in that.

There is just total and absolute surrender and lightness.

In my grace to make mistakes and to know that for me,

It's always fixable.

You're an infinite soul on an endless timeline,

Just experiencing life in every moment.

And what's so beautiful,

I didn't realize that about your dad,

Just had the role that death also played for you and your catalyst and your awakening.

How often does death and the impermanent nature of life sort of enter into your awareness?

And how do you use that energy to make decisions and create the life that you have?

Probably more often I am confronted with it now than I ever thought I would be,

Or that I probably care to be.

And not death in the sense that I'm putting myself in circumstances that are extreme that help me walk that fine line.

But through some of these plant medicine journeys,

Having experienced this ego death and going back to what has been taught to me to be the Samadhi,

The original no thing,

The space of it all,

Where all existence is,

That absence and everything,

Right?

To go back there,

Just saying that out loud,

Sounds nutty.

It gives you that sense of impermanence or lack of permanence on this planet.

Is impermanence a word?

I think it is,

I'm pretty sure it is.

But it also gives you an experience of the permanence of everything outside of this life.

This life being so in fact temporary and that being so eternal,

Follows me most of the time when I'm sitting,

I live in this beautiful building and I get to stare out over these trees and I'll just catch myself sitting there going,

Oh God,

This is so short.

And I feel a glimpse,

A little taste of an eternity outside of this.

And on one end,

It is the most profoundly frightening thing I'll ever experience,

Is facing that glimpse of not being here and in this form.

On the other end,

It brings such passion to the present moment that it can slow time down so that I can just sit with it all and look over at Monica and this little baby that's forming in her belly and just go,

Wow,

I don't want this to end.

I almost have a hard time going to bed these days and she's so excited to go to sleep to wake up the next day and I'm so miserable because I'm like,

This day can't end.

I don't want it to go away yet.

And it is this profoundness that has the gift of now.

Ah.

And that like the intensity of the present moment that gets magnified when you're really dropping into it.

Like,

I mean,

What is presence?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on like,

Just presence,

Like what do you think it is?

The absence of thought.

The thinking mind is usually pulling from past and in some cases,

Predicting future.

And I don't know whether it's totally true or not,

But I have read that it is impossible for the mind to actually experience presence.

Total presence,

The now.

Now I think on one end,

If I can slow as much as possible down to potentially no thought and move into a heart intelligence,

This is where the heart is where I have experienced the divine infinite now.

The expansiveness of this present moment where literally it's almost like a superpower.

Where you can bend time.

You're an infinite soul in an endless timeline.

Yeah.

I totally get it.

And you can access all that ever was and all that ever is and pull it and collapse it here.

And it's really hard for my brain to comprehend that.

And so then my thinking brain kicks in again and I get pulled out of it immediately.

It's so interesting.

I've been really leaning into this idea of source-led leadership where you're,

Instead of using the thinking mind and the rational mind to strategize,

Yes,

The mind has a role it plays in problem solving and thinking through things.

But there's something about surrendering the mind and just accessing divine consciousness.

And because if we are endless beings that are constantly moving in every direction,

We do have access to everything that's ever been done and everything that will be done.

So you can always source your guidance from the heart.

And I think as a culture,

We don't have a good,

Maybe a curriculum for teaching people to understand the heart,

To work with heart information.

But I'm finding this,

The expansive nature of it.

There's so,

If you try to comprehend what's coming through the heart with your mind,

You're just going to confuse yourself.

Totally.

It's almost like you have to just operate from intuition.

Totally.

Which is,

Which there's a part of me that calls that reckless.

And on the other side,

There's a part of me that's like,

That's the only way.

And so do you have any thoughts around just like the marriage of the heart with the mind and when do you call in both intelligences and in what for?

I'm truly obsessed with heart intelligence.

And I don't mean from a position of study because then that brings mind.

The mind,

Right,

Right,

Totally.

But from a level of experience to see what can unfold through implicit trust in what I would call my divine executive assistant.

So the way I articulate this to help people that I get a chance to work with in this heart led leadership concept is,

I don't know why I'm talking so dramatically.

I love it.

Keep it going,

Man.

This is your podcast voice.

I'm realizing more and more my thinker is a slower processor.

And when it's coming from my heart,

It's a shorter distance it seems,

But it has these delays to it.

I apologize to your audience.

There is a divine executive assistant.

So think of an executive assistant,

Whether you've had one or not,

That role seems pretty obvious in terms of,

I would love to have one where I have implicit trust and she is going to schedule my calendar according to what she knows I should be doing that maximizes my time and effort towards a goal.

And if I look at my calendar and I can see that I have a half a day not scheduled,

Then the question becomes,

What do you do with your day?

And most people in the world of business,

If they had a half a day and they didn't have business things on the calendar that she scheduled or he scheduled,

Then I'd go get a massage.

I'd go for a walk.

I'd spend time with my family.

I do things that are fun.

And if I had that appointment at four o'clock in the afternoon,

All I got to do is show up.

So the only action required is to be present in that meeting.

So your divine executive assistant,

When we're functioning from this heart knowledge,

Who is in fact,

Working on a multidimensional timeline,

Knowing what the intentionality of your code,

If you will,

Is while here.

And within that code,

I've set an objective.

I've set a goal to build in our case,

A media company or whatever it is.

It knows my intention.

I have a vision of an end result.

It does require mind to paint vision,

To see that which has not come into fruition,

To hold that vision and then emote according to the reality of that vision.

And as I am connected to the vision in this present moment,

As a experience that's unfolding in my present moment,

I have people pause and ask one simple question.

What is in my highest and best use right now?

As if you were checking your calendar.

And most of the time,

And this is where most people have an issue,

There is no thing on your calendar because there's no thing lining up for you.

And what do we do when we don't have an actual calendar,

But we just have this sense of I'm supposed to be doing something,

But I don't know what to do.

And then you ask this question and you don't hear the voice telling you what to do.

We usually convolute it with all the busy stuff.

And when we convolute it with all the busy stuff,

Now I'm so busy doing a busy stuff that I've got to keep up with that busy stuff.

And now when I forget to pause and ask what is in my highest and best use right now,

I'm double booked on my divine calendar.

And so usually because it's a divine calendar and I can't actually see that calendar,

That which I've made as busy supersedes that which is divine.

And the interesting thing here as I've worked with salespeople,

As I've worked with business leaders who start tuning into this is they think that the slower process of the whole game,

Entrusting this heart knowing this divine intelligence coming from the heart space.

The interesting thing is it's a slower process because in linear time and space,

It feels like,

Well,

If I don't hear that I'm supposed to be doing anything for three days,

Then I'm lazy.

Well,

I'll just want to interject on that.

Like the,

It's slower,

But at the end of the day,

Like if your goal is to,

Let's say just,

Let's say make 10 grand,

Let's just say that's what the goal was,

Right?

If you worked every single day for 10 hours and then in three weeks you got 10 grand or you meditated for nine days and then on the 10th day,

It told you where to go to find the 10 grand,

Which one would you take?

100%.

Yeah.

And the gift is you don't even have to meditate for nine days.

You can do whatever the fuck you want.

It is where we,

It is where we get this whole thing convoluted because we talked earlier about hard and busy and we reward hard and busy.

And if it's not,

And I've gotten so much crap in my businesses for being the guy that comes down at 1030 in the morning,

Just finished meditating,

Then I go off and I have my coffee and then I do whatever.

Sometimes I cancel appointments and,

But yet the vast majority of the time in the companies that I have where you need to sell,

I've outsold everybody on my timing.

And it's ironic because the person making the thousand phone calls,

I try and get them to understand it wasn't the thousand phone calls that you made.

It was when you got to 1001 and you got that no,

That the stereotypical saying from some of these people that I won't mention is push through,

Keep calling,

Keep calling.

Every no is a yes.

Okay,

Cool.

Perspective,

Fun.

But it was really the 1001 phone call that you got pissed and you threw your hands up and you said,

I'm not doing this.

And you surrendered and you called your friend and said,

I need to just go have a beer.

Just go have a beer.

And your friend's 15 minutes late and you end up talking to the guy next to you or the gal next to you and they become your biggest sale.

To your point,

That person was there for a week and I didn't know they were there for a week.

So had I just asked my divine executive assistant,

My heart's knowing,

Instead of seeing this person the following Tuesday,

He arrived on Tuesday and was at that bar on Tuesday the week before.

What's so powerful about what you're saying is that it's almost like those moments where you're pushed to the brink of surrender is actually a divine redirection.

No question.

That is exactly what you're saying.

It's like,

Stop doing this thing that's just not fucking working.

And let me redirect you in a direction that will bring you to whatever it is that you're meant to experience in this moment.

That's right.

And I think there's an attachment to wanting to experience a certain thing.

How do you work with your own attachments in that way?

And let's say you're going on a thousand sales calls,

Right?

I find it hard for me to like- I wouldn't.

Well,

Let's just say that Raj did.

Raj is the young guy in his 20s trying to hustle his way to what he wants,

Right?

If I throw my hands up in the air,

There's still a part of me that yearns for the sale,

Right?

But it's almost like at that point,

How do you distinguish between attachments and yearning,

I guess?

And I don't know if I'm asking this question the right way,

But I think what I'm trying to ask is I don't want to be attached to the sale,

But at the same time,

I really desire the sale.

Well,

You might be at a point where you need the sale.

Right?

Because you got to eat.

In fact,

I can't afford the beer anymore.

Right,

Right.

So I guess in all of those frequencies,

Is surrender the same medicine?

Or are there frequencies to even surrendering in those moments?

You know,

We're trying to explain something in,

Again,

Linear experiences.

So I would bring it back all that we've talked about so far.

Is important and relevant to this particular question,

Because judgment is here.

I'm not enough.

That starts creeping in if you're making the actual thousand phone calls.

I'm not enough.

So I had to listen to,

I had to go ask the other person who made the thousand phone calls who's successful.

And he thinks it was the thousand phone calls that made him successful or the 10,

000 phone calls that made him successful.

And in many cases,

Repetition is important.

But repetition is really about the confidence.

Right?

It isn't necessarily a necessity.

Wow.

I just want to really anchor that in for a second.

Repetition is about bringing up the confidence.

And once you have the confidence,

The sale can happen overnight.

Right.

Wow.

That's really profound.

And so what I'm really lacking from day one on the job in this particular scenario is the knowing that I can,

Because of probably other scenarios that took me out of the belief or it very well could be a lack of alignment.

And I don't really even want to be here in the first place.

I mean,

So many people are doing something based on what they think they should be doing.

And man,

This is so,

Oof,

We can go so deep here.

Do what you love.

That's what people say.

And then our assumption,

At least my assumption for many years until I understood the doing what I love does not mean do what you love in order to make a dollar,

In order to generate money.

I've found do what I love anyways.

And if I'm doing what I love anyways,

I'm doing these things that are leading to this essence of loving my life.

And then I sell books.

I'm going to sell a lot of books,

Not because I love selling books,

But because I'm in the frequency of doing what I love.

And I can find something that I love about this.

So when we think of like,

If you go and do what you love,

That you'll be successful.

That's not necessarily the thread that I think is crucial here.

Because you see so many people who,

Artists as an example,

They'll go start painting and think they'll quit all their jobs and go become a successful painter.

And then all of a sudden the painting 10 years later,

When they didn't know how to sell their painting for $25,

000 each,

They're broke.

And now they hate painting,

But they did what they love.

There's an essence here that I think is really important.

And that is,

How am I showing up in all parts of life?

And how am I enjoying all parts of life?

And how am I bringing awareness to the judgments and the internal dialogue and falling in love with all of it?

This is so beautiful.

I love this kind of frame around how you do one thing is how you do everything.

And you are the common denominator.

So the same judgments that you're facing in work are also gonna be the same judgments you face in relationship.

And that's actually been the most healing yoga for me.

We were actually talking about how awareness is the ultimate medicine before we started recording.

And I've been realizing more and more,

The more aware I am of how I'm showing up in one area of life only creates compound interest in another.

And there's this weave.

And so the more we can just access that frequency of love in one area of life.

I remember in my last relationship,

Actually,

I don't think I've even talked about this.

This is fun.

Before my company Liberate came,

I was doing a lot of other businesses and a lot of partnerships and they were toxic,

Not really healthy.

And I didn't love what I did.

I was not in like a good space.

And then I met my former lover and we fell in love and I felt my frequency rise.

And I felt the love.

And I remember one of the first questions that I asked myself was she's the first one that like truly helped me realize like,

Wow,

I don't feel this way in my work.

And that was the seed to start making changes in my life.

I started looking for work that brought out the same level of love in me that she did.

And then Liberate came in.

And now that.

And so it's like,

There's a brilliance to following what you love and not just doing what you love,

But being love.

Yes.

In it,

Right?

It's the frequency of love that you are channeling into everything you do.

Some people call that passion,

Whatever you want to call it.

There's a,

There's a frequency to just how you show up when you are excited.

That is worth paying attention to.

Yeah,

I think that's,

I think that's not only true,

It is how the whole game works.

Well,

When we talk about the law of attraction,

There's one component that I think is important that's missing out of the conversation around manifestation.

Manifestation is a part of the process,

But materialization is the goal that we're seeking to bring things out of manifestation into materialization.

And what's required is during the manifestation process,

The emoting is like the radio wave coming from you that is then finding other people or other circumstances or other scenarios or other signs and synchronicities that are aligned with the same frequency that you're emoting.

And emoting is what starts gathering the necessary things in this three-dimensional world that then participate together in order for it to materialize.

But when we are having these conversations about creating anything or doing anything,

And so much of the spiritual community seems to be shunning the actual possession of materialized things.

But how do you change a world that is materialized if we don't like it without materializing things?

So we're missing a component there and we're missing the importance of the ingredient of loving and desiring and wanting to bring in to fruition that which I want to see created in the world.

There's this,

It's almost like spiritual bypass to not yearn for abundance.

Because like,

I mean,

Look at nature.

She is so abundant.

Totally.

Right?

Like,

So like,

We're literally going against our very DNA by telling ourselves we're okay not,

It's okay to be happy with what you have.

That's very different than not allowing yourself to yearn for more or yearn for your heart's deepest desires.

I think there's truly,

If I had to connect to certain people in my life that are that way,

I think there's a fear of being disappointed.

Completely.

There's a fear of that heartbreak and that rejection that actually keeps us from spiraling upwards.

And,

And until we actually learn to not fear the feeling within us,

Which is the work at the end of the day,

Like we are always going to be trapped by the limitations of what we perceive is the problem.

But it's really not,

Money's not the problem.

Money is amazing.

I love money.

Yeah.

I,

There's a,

There's an even saying that in that way,

Like there's nothing wrong about even saying that.

Yeah.

And that's the thing.

So it's,

Well,

Money is a,

Is a by-product of value and it is an important ingredient.

Currency is an important ingredient in the flow of creation.

There is a current that needs to take place for value exchange.

And when you do something with me or for me,

If I have no reciprocity for that,

Or there's no value behind what I give you,

I give you a rock,

You'd be like,

Never doing that again.

Right?

It's gotta be value within that.

And we've lost the intentionality of,

Of money due to all these judgments,

Which going back to judgment again,

What was really helpful for me.

And it seems so simple when I first heard it and I shared it with everybody in that group,

Mostly because I forgot to bring a gift.

So I just shared something,

But it was truly a gift for me while we were in Panama and I was on this incredible mushroom journey.

It was presented to me that we are receivers of all things at all times and givers of gratitude for all things received.

There are really a lot out there.

And at first I was like,

Oh,

That's cute.

All right.

That sounds like something cliche that I've probably heard before.

I'm a receiver of all things at all times and a giver of gratitude for all things received.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'll open up to receiving.

I need to work on my receiving.

I could receive more.

But then in its wonderful sarcasm as I experienced the universal divine knowledge and knowing,

Smacked me upside the head and said,

No,

Dum-dum.

Your eyes receive light.

Your ears receive sound.

Your mouth receives taste.

Your skin receives touch.

Your being receives energy.

Your body receives food.

You are literally a walking receiver 24 hours a day.

And as I sat back and then I went,

Oh,

I'm not broken.

I am a receiver of all things,

All things,

Capital A-L-L,

At all times,

Capital A-L-L.

And my only requirement in the law of reciprocity is to be a giver of such profound gratitude for all things received.

And when I'm capitalizing the A-L-L,

It means all things.

Yeah.

The pain,

Suffering,

The joy,

The happiness.

I came here to be a receiver and a vessel of receiving all things.

You know,

It's almost like my favorite,

And I have no idea if this is true,

But it's a beautiful frame to think about the soul.

You know,

Like if the soul is sitting in oneness,

Constantly in the state of divine unconditional love,

And the soul looks down at earth and it starts to see this range of,

Wow,

I could experience sadness,

Happiness,

Anger,

Disgust,

Jealousy,

Joy,

Ecstasy.

Sign me up for that because this is really boring.

Soul then chooses the human experience,

But the soul gives us amnesia because the gift of remembering,

The divine unconditional nature of this whole thing is so beautiful that he's not going to rob himself.

He or she is not going to rob himself of that gift.

And when I heard that frame,

It's always brought me back into exactly what you're saying,

Which was this,

The gratitude for all of it.

Like you can't be grateful for what you have today if you're not grateful for all the things that made you who you are today.

And there's this deep resistance to wanting to just surrender.

But I think that you said it so beautifully,

The act of being grateful for all things is the greatest act of surrender.

And the medicine is there.

Completely.

It is,

There's a book by Neil Donald Walsh who wrote Conversations with God.

It's a children's book that was read to me that was read to me while I was with this oil and gas guy in Alaska of all places.

He sat me down by the fireplace.

He goes,

Sit down.

I'm going to read this.

And it's called The Little Soul in the Sun.

A part of it refers to what you were just talking about.

We are in a world of duality.

You can't have here without there.

You can't have up without down.

You can't have in without out.

You can't have light without shadow.

It is the judgment of those things,

Like shadow-based,

Dense,

Heavy experiences that create emotion that would equate to pain and suffering that we resist.

But they are 100% necessary in order to experience bliss,

Joy,

Love,

All the other profound chemicals that get fired in our body.

When we are seeking the chemical experience without understanding it is merely a chemical experience and not reality,

Then we get caught in that victimhood.

When we can bring awareness,

Which you are so great at bringing to others through this podcast and other things you're doing,

When you can have awareness of the chemical experience and know that that is the whole point,

We can't have a three-dimensional experience without duality.

Then you have a completely different perspective on all of it.

Ah,

Man.

It's so fun,

Isn't it?

It's so good.

I just like,

Like,

Could it be that simple?

I guess,

You know,

It took,

It's taken me tens of thousands of hours of study and doing the work and going in the journeys and being in the experience and to arrive here where the surrendering and the appreciation of all,

Recognizing that we chose this experience and we're here to have all of it.

And when we get there is when we truly begin to live.

Like,

It's freedom.

It's liberation.

When you are not literally resisting anything,

You're free.

I love posing the question,

What if you're not broken?

What if you're not broken?

What if it is an intentional experience and all you need to do is bring awareness to the non-brokenness?

When we look at our bodies from an energetic perspective and we talk about chakras as an example,

Our energetic body in order for our materialized body to be held up in existence,

It needs that which is not broken to exist.

When we do meditations,

I was of the assumption,

As an example,

If I needed to ground,

Since this is about grounding,

If I needed to ground,

I would throw in a meditation,

Probably a one that would walk me through how to ground.

And my thought process,

While in the meditation,

As I'm dissipating into feeling grounded,

Was going on a journey where most teachers that I had experienced were showing me to tell my energetic body,

Be red,

Root chakra.

Now see it going through the earth and rooting itself in the center of the earth.

And I would do that over and over and over again.

But there wasn't,

I would feel better,

But I never really felt truly grounded.

Until one day I was laying there and I'm like,

Okay,

I'm going to do this on my own.

I just put on some good music,

Get put on that sound bowl,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And I've been in this meditation and I'm like,

Okay,

Red.

And all of a sudden,

Getting smacked in the face again,

The universe is like,

You dumb,

Dumb.

It is,

You have forgotten that it is.

It is this tone that you humans call red.

It is already rooted in the earth.

You forgot.

Control freak,

Quit trying to tell what is,

How to be.

I was like,

Me?

Control freak?

I'm like the least controlling person I know.

I was like,

No,

You are trying to control that which is.

And as soon as I went,

Oh,

Show me how rooted you are.

Groundedness,

Unwavering sense of safety,

Security,

Protected,

Provided for,

Just shot through my body.

And we're not talking vibrational Shakti energy that I've experienced before,

But this overwhelming warmth of just knowing that I've always been rooted in this earth.

I couldn't be here if my chakras were not fully functioning.

And so the idea that my chakra is blocked,

I think is a misnomer.

I think I am blocked from that which is.

And the minute I bring awareness to what is,

I go,

Oh,

There it is.

And it's a much,

At least for me,

Was a much faster path to alignment with my energetic body.

That is creator consciousness.

Correct.

It is the opposite of victim.

Right.

It is truly creating and recognizing that you already have everything and you are always creating everything.

It's interesting.

Like I've been really paying attention to this word,

Try.

I'll try to do it.

I'll try to get it done.

There is no trying.

There is,

You're always doing.

Right.

And so even this nomer of like,

I'm going to try,

I'm going to make happen.

It's like,

There's this nature to the consciousness versus just being it.

At the identity level,

This is done.

There's no questions.

We are complete.

Complete.

And there's a,

And it's fascinating because I was in a,

Back in March or April,

I did a combo ceremony.

And in preparation for the ceremony,

So everybody listening,

If you don't know what combo is,

Combo is like a,

It's a very short ceremony where you put some type of frog venom on your skin and you end up throwing up energetic parasites.

And it's only 10 minutes.

Way to sell that one.

It is profound.

It is incredibly profound,

But it's hard for me to give the frame here without explaining it.

So 10 minutes,

It's all at last.

The shaman that I worked with,

He,

For three hours leading up to it,

Kept telling me how to work with the medicine.

And one of the things he told me was,

The parasite will only leave your body if you decide it does not exist there.

There's any part of you that feels comfortable with it,

Feel safe with it.

That feels like it's getting some value out of it.

It won't leave.

No matter how much you try,

You must decide.

And he,

For three hours,

Kept checking in with me.

Are you done?

Are you done with this aspect of you?

Are you done with this frequency of you?

And I just really stuck with me because it comes back to what you're saying,

Which is,

We are already whole.

There are these aspects of us,

These entities,

Whatever we want to call them,

That are,

And we focus on those as the truth.

But when we come back to the truth,

Totally,

We are powerful beyond measure.

Yeah.

And we get to be human.

And we get to be human.

Yeah.

Thank you,

Yoda,

For there is no try,

There's only do.

You know,

It doesn't matter how many times you watch Yoda say that.

I didn't quite get it until I tried to put on a pair of pants that didn't fit.

And I don't know why that was the most profound thing for me,

But I'm like,

Oh,

Wow,

No,

It either fits or it doesn't fit,

Right?

Like,

It was so silly for me to,

I'm like trying,

Even the word trying on clothes.

No,

You're not.

You're putting them on or you're not putting them on.

And when we can own that level of simplicity.

Well said.

It did or didn't.

And I,

Who said own?

Yeah.

I think that is the key word.

It's owning being that creator.

Because when you actually own it,

It just becomes really simple.

And the lens is that you don't play so much in the noise of everything.

It's just,

It is what it is or it's not.

Yeah.

And it really is.

There's a,

There's Russell Brand.

I wish I could play it for you.

Maybe I'll send it to you and you can add the link in here.

He gets on there and he goes,

We don't need more people believing in God.

We need the people that believe in God to start acting like it.

Because when you do,

You start to see the world as the beginning of this heaven on earth.

It's already here.

You begin to see the divine perfection in the whole entire game.

Wow.

And I was like,

Fuck yeah.

Just that,

Just that.

Gosh,

Man.

It's kind of comes back to my like,

Psychedelics are the rage right now with so much,

So many people talking about it and being so accessible.

Yeah.

Psychedelics are not,

It's,

It's,

It's a tool.

Yeah.

The integration,

The work,

The deepening of yourself.

That to me is what I think the psychedelic renaissance is trying to inspire.

Yep.

But that's ultimately like,

Cause we could all be waking up left and right,

Having mystical experiences.

But if we don't take that work home,

We don't take that work home into our families,

Into our work,

Into our communities.

Into the ways that we serve,

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

Not as an evangelist either.

No.

Just for you,

Your work.

I,

I have a,

A human who we had a very interesting encounter that didn't,

She feels like it didn't end well.

I,

I,

I really love people like whatever you're going through,

You're going through.

And I was frustrated with the way,

I was frustrated with the way it ended.

In terms of an experience with somebody who was just caring about and wanting to be friends with.

But their stuckness,

I really pushed me away.

And I recently got an email from this person and it was this whole evangelizing of how they found Jesus.

And a part of me is just like jumping up and down for joy that they found something that resonates with them.

I,

I grew up in Christianity.

I know the gifts out of it.

I know the hypocrisy out of it.

I get it.

But I was like,

Wow,

This is so cool that she believes in it so much.

But at the same time,

Nowhere in that email,

The first part was forgive me,

But then nowhere in that email did it ask anything about me.

How I was,

Where I was.

It was just,

You need Jesus in your life.

And this is why,

And this is what I found.

And here's,

You need abstinence and blow up.

She doesn't even know where I'm at.

She doesn't even know I'm having a baby.

I'm like,

What,

What just happened here?

And it made the forget,

The,

The asking for forgiveness part feel very focused on her new world and her new vortex as a sucking energy instead of a,

Um,

Truly saying,

I'm sorry.

And so I feel for her still in this lostness,

Even within something that she feels found in,

Because when you feel like you need to evangelize,

There is judgment in that.

You aren't there yet.

And I think this is the fundamental problem with spirituality and religion and non-religion.

Oh,

You don't see what I see?

No,

I'm not supposed to.

Wow.

That last line,

It's,

It's,

It's like,

This is so simple yet.

It's taken me years to even understand what you just said.

Like,

I remember when I first gotten on my path,

I wanted everyone to like,

To do what I was doing.

I wanted my parents to come to all my journeys.

I wanted my,

My,

My,

Like,

Just,

I just wanted everybody to be like on the path without recognizing that they're already on their path.

Yeah.

The path is right in front of them.

It's divinely perfect.

So,

And,

And them being on their path and me having my frustrations is a part of my path.

Totally.

It's what awakens me into my mission,

Into my vision.

And so it's all actually doing like,

We're all perfectly walking each other exactly back to our homes.

Yeah.

Like there's no,

And that's,

What's so brilliant when we actually zoom out and think about the brilliance of this machine,

This,

This consciousness,

This existence,

How coming back to how we had originally started this conversation around flow and how we just continuously enter into meeting the right people at the right time,

The right miracles,

The right messages to show up.

It doesn't matter how awake or not awake we are.

We can listen to the call and we can make the journey less suffering.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

That's our choice.

And what's meant to be ours is meant to be ours.

I'll preface this next quote by Alan Watts by saying,

I definitely do not enjoy some of the things happening on this planet.

Yeah.

The pain and the suffering that comes as a consequence of our forgetting.

But I resonated so deeply with this particular statement that Alan Watts was talking about.

He said,

Imagine if you could shrink down small enough to go into your bloodstream and within that bloodstream,

You would observe a war,

A war between white blood cells and things attacking the body and all these things happening within the bloodstream.

And in the observation of that war,

If you picked a side,

You would die.

If you zoom out from that war and you look at your body,

It's in perfect order,

Even though there's a war happening inside.

And if you zoom out on this planet,

I don't like some of the consequences of the shadow dense state that we're in.

And we should and shall improve continuously.

Yeah.

But when I pick a side,

It all ends.

Inside,

I'm dead and we create war that destroys.

When we can open up to the idea that there is divine perfection in the duality of things,

We can start diminishing murder,

War,

Rape,

All these other things.

It's the judgment that traps it.

It's the complete forgetting and choosing a side.

I'm right and you're wrong.

The borders,

I laugh so hard at borders these days.

Oh,

This is my state.

What are you talking about?

I just drove.

And as I drove,

There was a sign that said,

Ooh,

New state.

But what does that mean?

It's your state.

Your state?

I just drove into your state.

What did you do to have this state as yours?

And now your state is better on what terms or your country is better on what terms?

What makes your race better?

Your whatever better?

It makes no sense to me.

And I can't say that I am not a part of this dilemma because I am.

But in this awareness as the common theme of this particular conversation,

Man,

If I just thought about somebody breaking into my house and stealing my coffee maker because they needed money or they needed coffee.

And instead of locking my door,

I just invited him in for coffee.

And if they wanted to take the coffee maker,

Knowing I'm abundant enough to buy another one,

Then they could have coffee and I could have coffee too.

And now we both get to have coffee and they don't have to go steal another coffee maker.

Or if I just invited a man and I allowed him to sit with me and have coffee,

They'd never steal my coffee maker because they could just come in and have coffee anytime they wanted.

Why steal my TV if I'm going to let you in to watch my TV?

There's a part of this needing my thing,

My stuff,

My stuckness,

That I'm beginning to loosen up around.

And I've been guilty of it for so long.

My money.

Don't take my money.

Don't rip off my time.

What?

What is this?

It's silly.

I mean,

It's such a mirror,

Right?

Like we all,

I think this is where it's so beautiful to,

I love these conversations because one of my favorite parts of the podcast is you get to meet so many different people from all different walks of life.

And the common theme is that attachment.

It's the attachment to the things because the mind can spin any level of story to justify one way or another,

To justify this side or that side.

And it isn't until we can access our own version of that witness that we're going to stay stuck in the cycle.

And it takes,

And I think the crisis and challenge,

You know,

To come back to that,

Like are the fastest,

Like the,

I think the most honest places where we get a chance to rewrite these patterns.

Like for me,

Breakups,

Like the breakups that I've had,

The heartbreaks have been profound catalysts for me to rewrite a story of love for myself.

Business challenges have always been those opportunities to rewrite my attachment to money,

My attachment to needing to look a certain way.

And I truly believe that by continuing to lean into these initiations as a culture,

We can continue then ridding ourselves of the attachments that make us think we are separate than we actually are.

And attachment is different than wanting.

Totally.

Like I can want things,

But I can also not get it,

Not have it or give it away.

Yeah.

Because I can want something else.

There's a total flow to the whole process that I also,

By the way,

I will be the first to admit all of my humanness and my absolute 100% catching myself in the awareness.

I can feel my being going,

Dude,

You are totally declaring that as yours right now.

Like you are losing your shit over nothing,

But I'll still be losing my shit.

And that's where I think things,

The gift of grace.

Grace to me is a gift that I can give myself or other in the moment.

And forgiveness is something I can give if I couldn't find grace in the moment.

Dan,

I feel like I could talk to you for hours maybe.

I think we ebbed.

I just had a sense and a feeling that we were going to have one of the most epic conversations that we had no idea where we're going to go.

I think we had a theme or two.

We had a theme or two,

But.

.

.

Loosely.

Loosely.

But the weave has been remarkable.

I so appreciate just the way you think and the way you,

Even the tonality with which you express some of these concepts and the things that are important to you.

I know only come from deep,

Active listening and deeply going down your own path.

So I just want to honor you for that.

And I so appreciate just the chance to drop in like this with you so quickly in our friendship.

It was like a really great way to start something epic.

Yeah,

For sure.

I mean,

Everybody should do this,

Right?

When you first meet,

Just get on a podcast,

See what happens and then you'll know.

I've got one last question for you.

In the midst of everything you're doing,

Everywhere you've been,

Everywhere you're going,

How do you stay grounded?

And I'd even add one more.

There's one thing to stay grounded,

But how have you,

Like what actions have you taken to become more grounded?

It goes back to what we talked about earlier in the root chakra.

For me,

It's all about feeling.

If I feel heady and lost in the ethereal and visionary part of me,

I don't feel grounded.

And what I need to do is take all of that information that is being received in my upper chakras,

My mind,

My third eye,

My throat and ground those things.

And the best tool for me has been to know that I already am.

To know that I already am.

And when I access that,

It took devotion to that knowing and devotion to the ritual of experiencing grounding through meditation and being solely devoted to that for days and weeks and months on end.

To know exactly what it feels like,

But today the continuing process is when I forget and I'm lost in the headiness,

It simply then is a reminder at that point.

And as I remind myself,

I already am grounded.

I already am rooted.

Every step I'm taking is rooted.

I can access that feeling and then my body has that gravity to it.

And it does feel as though what was trapped in mind travels down into earth.

And what is the gift of Gaia,

I believe,

Is that she transmutes thought frequencies,

Ethereal patterns,

Universal frequencies.

She transmutes them into three dimension for our greatest good.

And so this is a very slow conversation of something that does happen extremely fast when you are grounded.

It takes the ethereal and brings it into feelings,

Chemical experience in the body that then I can choose to emote.

I can choose to vocalize.

I can choose to just sit in the feeling of.

But it's that gravity,

It's that knowing that I'm rooted and grounded that really supports me.

The knowing.

Implicit knowing that I am never not.

Mm-hmm.

Damn,

Dude.

Boss answer.

I just love that.

Just the knowing.

It's so.

So I got it right.

You got it right.

I think you got it.

I've been giving you an A.

You're getting high.

It's a lot of pleasure,

Man.

God,

Man.

I gotta look smart on these things.

All right,

Brother.

Thank you so much for just this jam.

I so appreciate you.

Thank you,

Man.

You are an incredibly special human being.

And again,

We were amongst some pretty epic human beings the other day,

And your frequency stood out.

So you are doing the work as a parent.

And thank you for this gift of spending five years of sending these messages out into the world for service.

Man,

It's such a dedication to our planet and to people.

I honor that so much.

Thank you,

Brother.

I so appreciate you.

Everybody,

That is a wrap for this week's episode of Stay Grounded.

I'm your host,

Raj,

And this is your new friend,

Devin.

And from us,

Stay grounded.

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Stay Grounded.

No matter where you're from or what you're going through,

I hope it helps you remember just how incredible you are and have always been.

If you're on a path of emotional healing or self-discovery,

I would like to learn how Liberate can support your journey.

Head to www.

Rajjana.

Com forward slash Liberate,

That is L-I-B-E-R-8 to learn more about our current group programs and one-on-one offerings.

I love you guys,

And I'll see you next week.

Reviews

Profound impact 😌

Wow! I want to share this with everybody I know. I will listen to this again and again. When the time is right, I will share it with my kids. Thank you for this gift. Susan.

Really great conversation. Not one, not two. Thanks.

Sensational.

Battling the control freak who is already perfectly grounded … you sirs are a gift to the world. Grateful to have tuned in.

Profound. 🙏 Thank you

This was excellent!! Very informative and inspirational. I took a lot of notes. Givers of gratitude...

This talk was so interesting and genuine. I had a blast listening to you talking about these complex concepts and beliefs in such simple and accessible ways. Thank you for sharing this.

Devon this was incredible, the depth of information to process all that you said will take time but what a treat. What a treat. Thank you 🙏

Excellent conversation🙏

Beautiful conversation. I found Devan on a live stream yesterday and was immediately drawn to the level of wisdom and presence. He emanates this friendly yet deep chat is well worth tuning into it also gives really lovely insight into another way to approach grounding.

Great podcast, loved it. Really got a lot out of this.🙏🏽👍🏼🤩💖💖💖

Wow, Devon so many insightful gems within this conversations do and I’m thankful that it materialized here and now.

Great conversation ✨✨ I enjoyed this so much! Thanks to both of you. ♥️

Yowza! That was amazing! Love to both of you for showing up whole-heartedly, grounded, so human, profound, with lightness and a sense of humor. 🤗💞💫🙏