Rediscovering Play As An Adult & Activating Your Creativity

Rachael Renae, an author, artist, play and creativity enthusiast on the power of on how to prioritize play to overcome blocks, better connect with yourselves and your people, and confidently live big, fulfilling lives.

Mindset shifts to start seeing play in the everyday. Guidance to help you find your version of play. Strategies to turn play into a regular practice. Exercises to release expectations on your creativity.

Transcript

I am Anna Seewold, And this is Authentic Parenting, A podcast about growing ourselves while raising our children. I'm a psychologist, Educator, And parent coach. Through my work and this podcast, I help parents break generational cycles of trauma, Reconnect with their authentic selves, And raise emotionally healthy children. Together, We have built a global community of conscious parents. Who wants something different for the next generation. Join us as we create a more peaceful, Kind, And compassionate world. Serious and heavy. Consider this your permission slip to have more fun and play. I hope you do too. It is light, Fun, And full of so many wonderful, Free things you can do to add more playfulness and creativity into your life. About what gets in the way of play, Including attention challenges and more. I love the cupcake metaphor and the many practical activities Rachel shared. This is a fun, Uplifting, Feel-good episode, Perfect for the summer. And ultimately, It's about living your best big life, Whatever that means to you. Please enjoy and stay safe. Thank you for listening. Well, Rachel, Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Thrilled to be here. I'm so excited to talk to you about creativity and play and how we can prioritize and have more of it in our lives. As you know, You know, Many people are stressed, Overwhelmed, Burnt out these days, Especially parents, But parents are people and they take care of children who love to play. So how can we help parents who are humans to prioritize creativity and play because they might think, Oh, I'm not creative, I don't have time, All those things. Yeah, Absolutely. I think this is a really common thing that a lot of adults feel, Especially parents who give so much of their energy and time to their children. And I think there are a lot of easy ways that we can start to engage with play as adults, And that includes including the children in that play. I think creativity kind of gets this very high on a pedestal kind of idea where creativity is fine art, It's hours and hours to paint in a studio, And really it's just creative thinking. I think creativity is curiosity, And children have so much curiosity. They are wonderful to watch. I don't have children but I have friends who do and I love spending time with them because they're so curious. And so to answer your question, I think. . . People, Adults who want to start engaging with play can start to think about, What did I like to do as a kid? What do my kids like to do? What sort of silly questions can we involve in our conversations? What ways can we try to make the everyday a little bit more magical? And I have lots of tips and comments about that, But I already am long-winded in answering your question. No, I want to discuss the benefits of play. I think it's important embracing and finding our creativity, Which we all have. You know, I think you're right. People put creativity on a pedestal. They don't think of it. Oh, I'm a creative person. I don't have that. Yes, We are all creative, As you write in your book. But I think. In these days, What's predominant is do your trauma healing, Regulate your nervous system. We hear those kinds of messages, But one of the things to regulate your nervous system or to heal yourself is through play and creativity. I think it doesn't get enough showtime. And I love that you dedicated this entire book, Which is also very engaging and playful. It has lots of reflective questions and exercises. And I want to get into some of them, If you don't mind. But first, How do you define play and what are the benefits of finding our creativity and prioritizing play? Yes, Absolutely. I think like you said, Play is healing. It's a way for us to connect with ourselves at our core, Who we naturally are maybe meant to be. And I think we lose a lot of that in adulthood with, You know, Prioritizing our responsibilities and kind of conforming to what we maybe think people expect of us as socialized adults. And so I think play is a tool that we can use to figure out are inside and how we want to express ourselves and then also like you mentioned so much healing happens and my personal play practice that I use the most is is making art. I make sculptures of paper mache and ceramics and I love that you brought up the comment about how we're all kind of like heal your trauma, Fix your attachment wounds, Do all of these like heavy deep therapy things. I have been working with my therapist on a lot of these things and lately she has been suggesting like just go make art about it because you're intellectualizing too much and there's something magical that happens when we can kind of enter that flow state of whatever play activity it is and And, You know, We start to process our feelings without realizing it. Yeah. I mean, For children, Right? Like we can, When children go to therapy, What they do is play therapy, Right? They don't do, It's very helpful. So what is play then? What do you think we misunderstand about play? I think when adults hear play, They think, I don't know what they think, Right? I would invite the listener actually to think about that question. Comes into their minds when they hear prioritize play? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I hope you listeners had something immediately pop into your brain. When I think of the word play, Even though it's what all of my work is based around, I immediately think of a child running around outside in the summer, Like summer break, Sprinting down the sidewalk, Riding a bike, Playing basketball, Doing hopscotch, Things that feel exciting and fun. And I think play as adults is really just figuring out how can I add a little bit of, To use a term that is, You know, In the zeitgeist on the internet right now, A lot of whimsy to my life. What can I do to be more playful instead of just thinking, I need to do this. Block out a whole day to play, How can I make the things that I'm already doing a little bit more playful? Whether that's I'm making dinner already, Can I make a monochrome plate where all the veggies and all the foods are green today? Or I'm getting dressed already, Can I wear a monochrome outfit? Can I give myself little challenges to try to play in the everyday moments? So I think play, It's tough because it's hard to define, Right? It's what's fun, But I also think of it as a tool to making our everyday lives a little bit more meaningful and intentional. Process itself is fun and engaging. That's how I see it. Way to complement that work often is, Oh my gosh, You should sell that. You should create a business. And that immediately puts pressure on the play activity and puts the focus on the final product instead of the process, Which is what's enjoyable and where we can kind of do some of that noodling and figuring out how we feel about things. And I think freedom is exactly it. And permission. I think that's a lot of my story in the book is about giving myself permission to make play a priority and not feeling guilty about spending time on these things that may look on the outside like they're frivolous or not serving a purpose when actually the purpose is I'm feeling fulfilled. Yeah, I think oftentimes people do not want to engage with play or in creative endeavors just because that they may not see what's the purpose, What's the goal or outcome of this. The goal is for you just to unplug, Unwind, Have fun, Get in touch with your own feelings, Express yourself. I feel like a lot of people always want something out of it. In our culture, In this Western culture, You cannot do something simply for the purpose of doing it for its own joy. It always has to be either you have to monetize or has to have an outcome. And I think that's a big hindrance. But innately, As humans, We are creative, Right? Like you can invite creativity, Like you said, In how you dress, How you cook. You do already so many things in life. I think we can bring just a dash of creativity and sparkle into our day-to-day life. Exactly. Yeah. I think it's a matter of shifting the mindset and the perspective around what is play? What is creativity? You know, I have a friend who loves making a spreadsheet and organizing things like that is creativity in her way. And it just has to, We have to give ourselves permission to see the things that we enjoy doing, Paying attention to when was the last time I felt really good and kind of lost track of time and put my phone down and didn't look at it. What was I doing? Sitting outside reading a novel? Was I making a spreadsheet? That happens to me when I'm at the ceramics studio. All of a sudden I'm there for six hours and I'm like, Where did the day go? Which is lovely when that happens. So I think it's a matter of, Yeah, Giving ourselves permission to try things and then shifting the perspective around creativity and what play looks like in our lives. And I think there are so many ways we can do it in five minute increments. We don't need six hours of time. That's such a luxury to have that when I do. Yeah, And knowing that this is a de-stressor, Right? Our lives are so pressure-filled and fast-paced. I think if we can infuse a little bit of creativity into our day-to-day life, And you're right, It's an attitude, It's a perspective shift. It immediately changes everything. I always find that a mindset shift like that, A reframe, How powerful it is. It can take this boring task of cooking into something more fun if you just reframe what this is and what you're gaining out of it. And it's so easy to do, I think, In day-to-day life. Like you don't need a whole lot of time. If you're driving, You can incorporate music or, Right, All those little things. Can you perhaps walk through, You have so many exercises in finding what kind of type you are, You know, Your hidden creativity, Like let's excavate them, All those things. Which exercise do you think would be helpful? This point in our conversation, Helping the listener to do something. They can pause the podcast and do this activity, Maybe certain questions to uncover something about themselves. Absolutely. Yes. I think that there are a couple that I'm going to kind of blend into one for the listener. So the first question I often ask people when I'm teaching workshops or facilitating group discussions is, What did you like to do as a kid? What activities? Simple as that. Or what did you want to do? And I use the example of I grew up in the Midwest in Michigan and I always wanted to go surfing, But there's not an ocean in Michigan. So I was not able to do that. So write down those things too. Maybe you always wanted to do those things and something in your life prevented you from doing that. And then take a look at that list and ask yourself, How long has it been since I did that activity? Because I think in our heads, We think we're doing things more than we are. Like I use basketball as an example. I love playing basketball. I did as a kid and I do as an adult. And in my head, I play all the time, But it's probably been like two years since I actually shot a basketball at a net. And I think it's really interesting to look at that list and make that list and then to check in with ourselves. How long has it actually been? And then kind of the secondary part of the exercise for the listener is I love to create a playlist, Not a music playlist, But a to-do list that is filled with only play activities. Because I find that when we have free time, Let's say a meeting ends early or your dinner plans get canceled or your kid gets invited to a play date and you have a free evening. I think our tendency, My tendency for sure, Is to fill that with responsibilities. Oh, I'll catch up on laundry, Or I'll mop the floor, Or I'll scrub the baseboards today. And those things can be important, And we can do them if that is what we really feel needs to happen. But we add this urgency to our responsibilities, And I think we don't prioritize play enough. So by creating a playlist, That to-do list of only play activities, It's a quick reference. So, Okay, My meeting ends early. All right, I haven't played basketball in two years. Maybe I can order a basketball online. Or I could find out when there's a free play at a local gym near me. I can take five minutes and do one little task toward that play activity so that it's kind of front and center. It's reminding us that we do want to make play a priority. And like you mentioned when we were talking about the mindset shifts, Once you start doing this, It's a muscle that we strengthen. You start noticing opportunities for play in the everyday. I love that, Creating a playlist. I think it might be challenging if you've never done that. As you are speaking, I'm trying to create mine mentally in my own head, But I have to say, I embrace my creativity. I consider myself a playful person, But I'm going to make a playlist. What is it that I want to do? Because you're right, When we have this chunk of time, We don't know what do with it. But if you have this list that you've created ahead of time, It's always good to refer to that list. That's a really great, Brilliant idea. I love that. I encourage everyone to make a playlist. It doesn't have to be a long one. It could be maybe three or four items. Exactly. And another thing that I like to do, Because it is challenging, Especially if it's not a practice that you are comfortable with yet. I like to think of it seasonally. Also, Again, I'm in the Midwest, So we get the four seasons. But I think that that's helpful. So let's say fall. I love Halloween. I want to make a Halloween costume. Or I want to drink apple cider. Or if it's winter, I want to make a snowman. Or go ice skating. Or if it's summer, I want to make sure that I prioritize going to the beach. Because in my head, Again, I think I go to the beach all the time in the summer. And maybe it's really only once or twice. So making a list of kind of those seasonal activities, I feel like sometimes that's helpful to at least get us started. Like, What are the things that I associate with summer? What are the things that I think about with spring? Maybe planting some tulips or something like that. Thinking about those things that we always wish we had time for and we think about and we're daydreaming about and we are talking about with our friends, But never quite get to. I think that's a good place to start the lists. 63 years old. And she, For every month, She creates a monthly, I'm not going to say goals because they're not goals, Intentions, Like playful, Creative ideas that she wants to incorporate into her, Exactly what you were suggesting. And they are seasonal and they are thematic. Like a month of, Let's say, April was to write letters to certain people in her life and be creative in this writing. Writing as a tool. I think that was for March. For April, She had put a lot of, And she shares with me so I know what they are and I often participate with her. So for April, She had created this. It's in my other room. I should have showed, I wanted to show it to you. So it's basically a cardboard. She made a little vase, A picture of a vase on a cardboard, And she had holes as if, You know, There are holes above the vase. So she said, Anna, Let's go for an nature walks since it's April and there's a lot of blooms and flowers and plants and let's fill our vase. You know, You cut a little leaf or a flower and let's see what we get. It was so fun. You know, Together we both had our cardboard little vases and we went out and filled and it looked different. Like hers had all sorts of things. Mine was mostly like flowers. Hers had like cones and leaves. Much fun. We spent two hours on a Saturday. It was a beautiful day. We laughed. It was fun. There was no purpose to it. But we had so much fun engaging with nature like that and noticing things. It was a mindful activity. It was fun connecting with someone. It just gave me so much joy, This simple act. At first, I'm not going to lie, When she gave me this cardboard thing, I'm like, Oh my gosh, Lisa, What are you doing? Not in kindergarten, But I undervalued how it contributed to my sense of wellbeing. That is such a good example. I love it so much because I do things like that for my friends as well. What I see those things as, And you mentioned it, Is a mindful activity. It's doing the activity with intention. I am focused on being here and doing the thing that I said I would do, Because especially in today's world, We're distracted. We have a thousand things running through our brains at all times. Our phones are too accessible with our phones being with us at all times. And I have done similar things. I have seen the flower. I really want to do that one. That one feels fun. But I've done like a scavenger hunt, My friend, And I went for a hike and I I made a list of like things that we would for sure see leaves dead leaves live leaves maybe we would see moldy piece of food from a leftover picnic or something like that so thinking about doing creating a little goal for yourself. And like you said, It doesn't have to be a goal in the sense that like, If I don't achieve this, I'm a failure. But almost I think of goals as guideposts. How, How can this kind of like create a boundary for me to work within? So whether that's creating a scavenger hunt, Or I have a lot of tips, I call them play attention, Play on pay attention challenges in the book, Where if you're at the grocery store, And you're in the hot sauce aisle, You can say, Okay which hot sauce am i and why and which hot sauce is my mom and why and the people in my life are so used to these kind of silly questions but it focuses my attention like i'm paying attention to that particular thing it creates conversation it's a way to kind of reset and be playful. Yeah, I love activities like this. And I really think if we're trying to create challenges for ourselves, Thinking about, Yeah, Kindergarten syllabi activities are a good one. And it's hard to overcome that, Like, This is frivolous, This is childish. But once we can get over that hurdle, We can open ourselves up to some fun. Yeah, And again, I'm going to bring it to the theme of our podcast. You know, My podcast is all about inner growth and trauma healing and all of that, Like inner child work. This is getting in touch with your inner child in a fun and creative way, Which again, It could be very hard for a lot of people, Right? Because that child is still there, But inaccessible. So one way to connect to your inner child is through art and creativity and fun and play. Was the little vase picture. I don't know if you can see. Yes, That was beautiful. That was mine. But my friend was getting competitive at some point. And I said, Lisa, She's like, Yours looks better. Mine doesn't look better, You know, It's okay. Wow. And you know what, She did and redid hers so many times. Mine too, Like some flowers were wilting before I found like the rest. It was so fun. And another thing I want to say, I'm part of a photo club in my neighborhood. We created a photo club and we have themes, Monthly themes. It's just this amateur like, You know, People, None of us are photographers. So this month's theme is club. And we're all in a group chat together. Yesterday I received a text message, Cloud alert. There are lots of clouds outside. Go and take pictures. Since we received this instruction for this month, You won't believe every day I'm looking for clouds. I go with my camera or my cell phone outside to look for the best cloud or for the most creative shot. And it boosted my happiness so much, This simple activity, Just looking for clouds. And it's like, Wow, I always paid attention to clouds, But now I'm noticing different things. And you're right. It's about noticing, Pausing. Paying attention with a different mindset to things that you're already doing. I was going grocery shopping yesterday and there were lots of clouds. It doesn't take much time, You know, Since I have the command in my mind, I'm oriented towards that. It's not like another to-do list that I have to take pictures of clouds, You know, Like you can infuse that seamlessly. And then you get excited about it, Paying more attention. And then because of that playfulness and that attention that you're giving, You're more open to receiving other exciting opportunities. Like, Okay, Now I'm noticing flowers because when I'm out looking for clouds, I'm also noticing flowers. Like there are, Yeah, It's such a beautiful practice. And I think it is a challenge. Like it's lovely that the photo club is such a good idea. It's like a lot of us need a little bit of a container to work within because it's, How do I play? And that's exactly why I wrote the book because that's kind of what people started to say when I was doing this practice for myself. Okay, But I don't know how to play. And so I created this to help people and to share my story about why it is important. But what we do is similar to what you said for Photo Club. I create basically a syllabus, And we have a group project where I give a weekly prompt, Clouds, Relationship, Food, Color, Something, And then people can create whatever they want. They can share a recipe, Take a photo, Do a drawing. And then they submit that and we kind of collect it into this bound copy, Physical copy of this project. And by giving people the prompts, I've found that people are now starting to have that they've strengthened that play muscle and they're telling me oh I'm already I'm doing this and this and this too because I started playing and that is just so rewarding for me and I know that everyone can do it. You're right. The container matters because at least to me and to others, When there is no container, You're on your own and you're not going to be self-disciplined and guided. You may do one time and you're just going to fall off the side, Right? Container matters. And even if it's informal, Like the photo club, No one is judging us. No, It's like very low stakes. But you won't believe how engaged the people are in this photo club. There are even children and it's growing and it's like, Wow, This is magical. You're right. The container matters. Prompts matter too. Because humans love structure and clarity and organization and direction, Right? We do. It's hard to create that on your own because it's a lot of thinking you have, Like it's effortful, Right? Prompts and those things remove the blocks for you to engage in those activities. I love that. So share more reflective exercises from the book. I found them so helpful. First of all, You talk about this cake metaphor, Which is also kind of fun and funny. When we talk about play, It's a it's a layered cake. What are the layers? Tell us a little bit about it. Absolutely. Yeah. So I have the four parts in the book. Are base layer and the cake. So imagine a three-tiered funfetti cake with a cake topper. The base layer is finding your creativity. We have to give ourselves that permission to find it, To excavate it, To dig it out, And whatever version that looks like. And so I use play language because that feels more approachable than creativity. I feel like a lot of folks, Adults especially, Have creative blocks. Maybe they think creativity needs to look a certain way. So in part one, I'm explaining meaning kind of, I think the first reflection question is what kind of magical creature are you? Or what titles do you give yourself? Because like you said, Humans love organization, Clarity. We love to have a, We need to organize in our brains. And so if we choose the title of mom or artist or lawyer or doctor, Whatever our first couple of titles that we say are generally what we're sort of subconsciously continuing to go down. And I was doing that for myself with my job title. I was trying to tie my identity with my job title and it didn't fit. And so that's talked about a lot in the book. So back to the cake analogy, The base layer, The important layer is finding your creativity. And then the second tier is prioritizing play. So I have exercises like the play attention challenges or creativity challenges like. Exploring your style, Or. . . Create a photo zine with friends. Think little prompts to help you get started on your own. And then the next tier is defeating distraction and doubt. So I found that. . . I think I'm being creative when I'm saving all these ideas. I have a ton of Pinterest pins saved. I have bookmarked things on my computer. I have emails stored in a folder to come back to. And it kind of scratches the itch, But it's not actually creating. It's consuming. And so I talk about how we're kind of using some of those inspiration-saving things as procrastination. And then the cake topper is dream big and go play. Goal setting and kind of how I approach goal setting, Much like your friends, Kind of making seasonal or monthly goals, But I treat them as guideposts. If I'm walking down a path, I'm walking toward this goal, But if I see something else that's exciting and I want to take a different path, It's okay to veer off. It's okay to not achieve all of those goals, But I want to be intentional about how I'm spending my time and make sure that I keep checking in with myself. So there are exercises about understanding where your time goes, How many hours Did you scroll on your phone this week? Mine's bad and it will continue to be bad. There are exercises for tapping into your creativity. There's exercises for goal setting. So, Yeah, That's kind of my three tiered cake analogy. And then I say it's a funfetti cake because sprinkled throughout are these little reflection exercises that can sometimes be hard. But I would imagine your audience who is, You know, Working on inner child healing and trauma healing, They're used to reflection. So I think it'll be interesting. A perfect fit, But some folks are really resistant to the reflection. Yeah, I know, You know, The listeners that I know, Part of my support group and who I know personally, They all love journaling and prompts and reflection. It's nice. So can we share perhaps an activity from each layer? I mean, I can be your guinea pig, You can ask me questions on the spot to do an activity. I think I want this to be more practical and engaging for the listener and not just, Oh, You should play more, You should play more. But let's show them what to do, How to get started. I love it. Yes, Absolutely. Okay, So in the first section, Which is finding your creativity, I will ask you this silly question. If you were a piñata, What would you look like and what would you be filled with? Oh, Wow. The first thing that came into my mind is it would be shaped like a pear, And it would be filled with confetti. Beautiful. Oh, I love that. My answer is the exact shape and dimensions of my body, But disco ball exterior and filled with liquid nacho cheese. And it's interesting because it's a silly question. It's disarming. It's fun. There are no wrong answers. But it's been interesting. I ask a lot of people and students these questions and Some folks are really resistant to giving a creative answer. Like you and I both have maybe non-traditional feelings in our piñata, But I didn't ask like, What would your audience like to eat as the candy? It's like, What would you be as a piñata? So we can kind of start to think like, Okay, Why? And my answer for why, And I didn't realize this, That was just my gut reaction when someone asked me that question, Is I think I really like to reflect people's light back to them. That's what I do as a creativity coach, Listen and say, Oh, But you are creative. And then I'm mushy, Gushy, Emotional, And cheesy on the inside. So that's kind of a reflection question there. And then that section moves on to a little bit more vulnerable about asking your friends, Family, Or community, What's your favorite aspect of my personality? What words would you use to describe me? And I think, One, It's really great to see the people we love reflect back to us the type of person that we want to be. And then also, It's information. Your bright colorful light and your friend responds and said you're empathetic and compassionate and a deep thinker that doesn't mean that like you're not colorful and a bright light but it just means that relationships with different people you show up differently so we can start to understand How am I showing up in the world? And how do I want to maybe make small changes to be more playful, To be more connected to the version that I want to be? So that's tier number one, Finding your creativity. Okay, Let me find the next. I finally got a copy of the book last week for the first time that is not digital, So that feels really exciting. The next section is prioritize play. And so I've got. . . Some play attention challenges, Which I told you the hot sauce one, Counting, Dogs when you're on a walk. Thinking about finding every color in the rainbow the next time you're in line waiting for something instead of looking. Your phone. But then I also have some creativity challenges where I share the zine challenge where you give your friends a bunch of prompts and you make a collective zine. So what's zine mean? Oh, Zine is short for magazine. So it's kind of like a self-published magazine, Sort of like. Like that. You can fold up a piece of printer paper into kind of like an eight page little mini magazine. And it's common to make these in like the printmaking and sort of DIY community. And it's just a fun practice to kind of make a self-published piece with your friends. And, You know, Like you could take this idea to your photo club. And, You know, Everyone votes on the photo of the month. And then at the end of the year, You have a 12-page zine with 12 photos to remember. That's fun. Yeah, The documentation of it. Yeah, Yeah, That's fun. So a lot of this is in the prioritize play section. Are kind of like suggestions, Less exercises. But I do ask coming up with a five-minute challenge. So maybe that's something that we could talk through. So to give you an example, Five-minute challenges are just what can I squeeze into five minutes in my day? And some examples are write a haiku, Add a bow to your hair, Swipe on some glitter, Make a paper airplane, Google a city you've never been to, Dance to one entire song, Subscribe to a newsletter, So these are kind of like five minute ways that I can be intentional. If I challenged you to come up with some five minute challenges, What would you pick? Well, I love some of this and I already do. I'm going to say I do the dance one. If I have five minutes, I know like one song may last two or three minutes. I often challenge myself to do exactly that in between things, Like transitional time. I don't write a haiku, But I write thank you notes or cards or like I often send text messages to people I haven't heard from, Like that's a general practice for me. What else do I do? I play the piano. I'm trying to like learn new songs. So I challenge myself to practice a new song. Like there's no strings attached. I'm not going to perform or anything. I'm a self-taught piano player. But I love certain songs and I, Yesterday I spent so much time on practicing one song and it all came together at the end of the day. I'm like, Oh my gosh, Okay. I spent like a lot of hours on this, But I was so satisfied. What else do I do? I challenge myself often with, I put like three songs, I call it a three-song challenge. So three songs would be like 10 to 15 minutes usually. I go into my laundry room and I'm going to fold laundry as much as these three songs last. I know I hate this laundry challenge, Folding laundry, But I make it fun so that I'm not so bored. Or cleaning the kitchen is the same way. I listen to a comedy special on Netflix and I clean the kitchen. I try to pair things with something I really enjoy and is fun with a dreaded task. You I love that. I also have to do that. I love the the three song challenge. I will sometimes set a timer, But I like the idea of making it music instead. Yeah, Yeah. Or sometimes I challenge myself to discover new artists and listen to purposefully listen to three songs or five songs that I would never have picked on my own. And that's fun. I recently found an artist called Teddy Swims and I became obsessed with this artist. I've been like playing a few of his songs on repeat. That's a new discovery for me. Amazing. Yeah. Oh my gosh, This is a great a great challenge. This is reminding me I made a sort of a worksheet for myself where I was finding that I was on the weekends, Especially prioritizing all my responsibilities. So I'm like, I got to clean the whole house. I got to fold all the laundry, Do all these things. And then I wouldn't feel like my energy was replenished. I felt drained because I just only did responsibilities. So I made this little worksheet where I wrote down six responsibilities and six play activities and then I took two dice and rolled them and so then I had to do one and then do the play and then responsibility and then the play and that was nice. I usually don't get through the entire like 12 items but it's at least a fun way and I collect colorful little dice so it's fun to kind of like interact with them. Yeah, Gamifying things. So I was trying to do spring cleaning in my kitchen and I was dreading it, Obviously, Like, Oh my gosh, The cabinets and reorganization. And I said, You know what, I know what's going to inspire me. I went for a walk with a friend and I have this big, Big vase. I said, I'm going to like cut tree branches, Like big ones and make this big centerpiece. So when I'm done with cleaning the kitchen, It will look like amazing. Right. And my friend goes, Why are you, You know, Ripping the branches from the trees? I said, Wait, You're going to see it. And sure enough, It inspired me. Those kinds of things inspire me to get started. I self motivate myself. But honestly, I did clean the kitchen, The cabinets, And when I placed that on the counter, It just all came together. You know, It's a silly thing, But it motivated me. And I think to get started, I think that's exactly what the mindset of prioritizing play is, Where it's like we're using play as a tool to do the things in life that we maybe have to do, But don't want to do. And the more that we can make things playful, It's making the mundane of life magical. Life intentional for us. I love that. That's beautiful. I like bring things from another room to another room. I move things around, You know, I do that often. Of what you might want to be spending your time doing. I have friends who don't really decorate their homes. They kind of do digital nomad lifestyles, And they don't care about home. I care so much about being in a space that's colorful and fun and cozy and inspiring to me. And so it's okay if it's not the same as the people in your lives, But just paying attention to, What am I daydreaming about? What am I saving on Pinterest? What am I talking with people about? Those are indicators of where your play might live. Yeah. Yeah. So true. I know it's very individual. I should say that some people are like me and like you, But some people may be that that may not work for them. Yeah. Right. Finding what works for you. For me, Rearranging things or bringing a new design item, A plant, A flower, Or a rock from, From outside is just so big. It just changes everything for me. You know, I am that easy. Me too. And I think it's because we probably practice being that easy to be able to find joy. Yeah. Yeah. It just removes like that. I'm going to find the picture of vase that I put in the kitchen. It was so big. Like I cleaned the entire kitchen just because I wanted to put those leaves on the counter. Yeah. It's kind of silly, But it's true. Yeah. What do you do to keep your creativity going? I mean, You stated in the book so many things like you got into making stationary, Whatever it was called, Not stationary. You know what I'm talking about. And then you turned it into a business. Yes, Yeah, I feel like I've lived a lot of iterations of explored a lot of iterations of my creativity. I went to college to be an engineer and I worked as a civil engineer for over a decade. And on the side, I started doing hand lettering, I taught myself hand lettering, And I took letterpress printing classes at a local printmaking studio. And I loved it. And it was so much fun to design something and then make it exist from my brain with my hands. And very Very quickly, I shared this story in the book. I felt like, Oh, If I can change my job title from engineer to stationary designer, Then I'll be happy. Then that will solve all my problems, My emotional discontent. It didn't because I put all of this pressure on this creative outlet that I was having so much fun with, But then the business logistics, The wholesale accounts, The coordination, The late night printing to get things out while I was still working my day job, Was very stressful and it took all the fun out of it. When the pandemic started, I did a lot of reflection. What do I want my life to look like? Life is happening to me and I'm not an active participant. It's just, I'm kind of going through the motions and I don't want that. I am a creative person and I want to chase and like grasp at all the juice out of life, Which is why I use the phrase big juicy life. I want it to be full and rich, Whatever that looks like for me. And I didn't know what that looked like. So I started exploring lots of other things. But that sort of productivity mindset was always in the back of my brain. Like, Okay, Well, People like this, So now I should sell them. And it immediately changed my creative practice again. I was going into production mode instead of exploring with the clay and really feeling what I wanted to make. And so I set aside the stationery business and the ceramics practice for a long time. And during the pandemic, When I was working from home, I started to explore my style and share my style. On the internet because I was like, I can't monetize this. It's just fun. It's just for me. I want to explore my personal style and have fun while I'm stuck at home. And that really that kind of took off on the internet and people were participating and it felt really good to kind of give myself permission to explore my creative expression in this way. That quickly people were like, Where can I buy this? Where can I, How do I buy this outfit? And I was like, Wait, I have to talk about this in a way that isn't, You should wear this outfit. It's here are tools to reflect and figure out what you want to wear for yourself. So that's kind of when I started creating these sort of reflection questions for myself and also to share with other people. And then ultimately I was like, It's not just style, It's creativity. But then when I talked about creativity, Folks backed away like, Ooh, But that's not me. I'm not creative. And so then I got to this language of play, Because generally we don't monetize play. It's just for fun. And it's usually low stakes. So it's more about the process and not the final product. That's not even the question that you asked, But I have done stationary design. I've done ceramics. Right now, I have brought the ceramics practice back into my life. I really do love it. I don't sell my work anymore. I do a lot of bigger sculptural pieces. And I also do paper mache, Which people generally, When I tell them that, They're like, Oh, I haven't done that. Since I was a kid. And I'm like, Exactly. Try it. It's really fun. And I still love to decorate my home and wear colorful clothes and host themed parties. Yeah, I love, I'm a very playful, Colorful person. Yeah, I love all of that. So you have this V&A diagram in your book about the big juicy life. Can you share that and talk about perhaps setting goals? I mean, We did talk about we have to be intentional and set goals, But let's bring this all together as we approach our time together for today. How can we aim to have a big juicy life, Which is different for everyone? Can we achieve that? Yeah, I think by setting goals, Again, This, Just like saying the word creativity, You know, Sometimes people are like, I don't want to set goals because what if I fail? And I think shifting the perspective on goals are kind of scaffolding to support us in our lives, Not these rigid things that we need to achieve or else we're bad. So I love to set goals as guidelines, As inspiration. And how I do that is I use this Venn diagram that you mentioned and it's one part is what you want your life to look like. And then one part is skills you want to grow. And then the other thing is what makes you happy. And so I think by looking at these three things, There's the things that make you happy. Maybe that's making ceramics for me. I'll use myself as an example. And then the skills I want to grow. Okay, Maybe I want to learn more about making glazes. And then the what I want my life to look like. I want to be able to spend have the freedom, The time freedom to spend time on my ceramics. So it's kind of like thinking about what you like and what you're interested in in those three lenses can help you kind of define a goal around that. So if I'm using the ceramics example, What I could say is, Okay, I want to set a goal where I'm reading about glaze chemistry once a month and experimenting with a new glaze once a quarter. And by setting them kind of using that sort of smart, This is like a corporate term, But like the, Let me see if I can find it specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, And time bound by setting it up in that way, Which again, People resist that. And I understand, But giving yourself a timeline, It's easier for me to say, I wanna experiment with glazes once a quarter, Instead of just say, I wanna experiment with glazes, When there's not a time component, Especially with, I have ADHD, So I need kind of the like containers, As I'm sure you've realized with this conversation. Yeah, I think using the Venn diagram and then creating a SMART goal is helpful, But I also think it's really important, And I talk about this in terms of setting these goals in the direction of what you envision your dream life to be like. And a dream life doesn't have to be perfect. All that different from what you're living now. Maybe it's just, Oh, I want to actually host more dinner parties because I love hosting, But I never plan it ahead of time. Or I want to wear brighter colors. So I'm going to give myself a style challenge so that I give myself permission to try different colors and see what I like. It's not when I say dream life, Sometimes I get pushed back like, Oh, Okay. Yeah. I want to quit my job and go be a landscape painter in France. And I'm like, If that's your dream life, Amazing. You can do that, But you can also take tiny little steps to get there. Can you read about landscape painters? Can you start taking French lessons? That kind of falls in the skills category. Like, Do I want to open an artist residency program in France someday in my life? I would love that, But that's not on the table right now. But I can do little tiny things that kind of are in the direction of that goal. So that's kind of how I approach goal setting. Yeah, I like that. It's more practical and attainable. And you're right, When you tell people your dream life, People say something unattainable and like a fantasy that they have. But what you are suggesting is something attainable that can make your life feel a lot more intentional and you design it. I think a lot of people live on autopilot and like dream life doesn't mean like a completely drastic overhaul of your whole life. Intentional and bring some creative and playful elements into your life. For me, I think the first thing is people and interactions and communities. And I have, Like for you, It's ceramics, Right? For me, It's doing things with other people. My type of, My creativity, My play is always tied to other people. I'm a very like relational person. And so like I run a book club. I'm in a photo club. I have this other thing. Like it's always people. And we do different things. And I do have some solo things. It's good to reflect which of those playful, Creative things are solo activities, Right? Which are more like community-based or other people oriented. I am both, But mine is always with other people. I find like a lot of energy in that. Yeah, That's really interesting. And it's such a good reflection. I have an exercise that's like kind of how you spent your time and was it for a other people or was it for yourself? I wish I had spoken with you before this because I love that idea of like, Were you with people or were you by yourself? Because I think I'm the opposite of you. I tend to spend a lot of time with other people, But what I crave and when I start to get resentful is when I overpack my schedule socially and I don't have that alone time with my creative practices. So I do, And I chat with people while I'm at, I'm a part of a, Like a community ceramic studio, But I crave that solo time and that spaciousness. My schedule to just have time to kind of be in my brain and making something with my hands. And that's, Yeah, That's such a good reflection because what is draining your battery and what is energizing it is the perfect way to start thinking like, Am I spending my time in the right way? Yeah, Yeah. I think it's important. And dream life doesn't have to be like this big, Big, Complete change of like your life. That's a fantasy. You can have fantasies and that's fine. Entertain them from time to time, Like moving to a country, To a new country and starting from scratch or whatever. But I think about the life that you currently have is more important, How you can design certain things to feel great about. Your life. That's important. Yeah. Yeah. I say be the creative director of your own life. And your book has lots of beautiful quotes from really famous people like Rick Rubin and all of those people. Can you read one of your favorite quotes so we can conclude this conversation on a very inspiring note? Oh, I would love to. I think because we've talked about children and parenting, I'm going to read this Rick Rubin quote from the Creative Act. As children, We experience much less interference between receiving ideas and internalizing them. We accept new information with delight instead of making comparisons to what we already know. We live in the moment rather than worrying about future consequences. We are spontaneous more than analytical. We are curious, Not jaded. Oh, I love that. And I think it boils down to kind of what I said at the beginning, Like creativity is scarcity. Yeah. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking with you. You're so much fun. I enjoyed reading the book. Again, It's colorful, Engaging. It's fun. You can do the activities and the reflective questions. I love those kinds of books that engage with you. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. This was such a wonderful conversation. It was lovely to meet you. And thank you for giving me a chance to gush about the thing that I love. Yes, Of course. Creative person, You have the most creative name. That's unusual, I guess. Whoever named you, They knew that you're going to be a creative. Yep, Channeled that creativity from the beginning. Well, Take care, Rachel, And it was a pleasure meeting you. You as well. Thank you so much.