Intrinsic Drive Power Perserverance

In this conversation, Alara Sage explores the concepts of intrinsic and extrinsic drive, sharing personal anecdotes and insights on how these motivations influence our goals and desires. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the difference between what we genuinely want to pursue (intrinsic) versus what we feel obligated to achieve (extrinsic). Alara provides practical steps for listeners to identify their motivations and suggests ways to combine intrinsic and extrinsic drives to create a fulfilling and enjoyable journey towards their goals.

Transcript

Welcome to the Sacred Sadist Podcast,

Where power is refined,

Impact sharpens,

And leaders move from success that contains to ecstatic legacy.

Hello and welcome,

I'm your host,

Alara Sage.

Today,

I want to talk about intrinsic drive versus extrinsic drive and the beautiful reframe,

The perspective shift that this understanding will bring you.

So let me tell you a story.

All throughout my life,

I loved school.

I loved learning.

And OK,

Yes,

In high school,

I didn't love it so much because I quite frankly didn't enjoy the social scene so much.

But I still loved school and I was very good at it,

Straight A student,

AP classes,

All the things.

So university was always the next place I was going to go,

And I always had that.

Intrinsic desire,

The intrinsic drive to go to university.

However,

The last few years of my high school career,

I didn't really know what I wanted to be anymore.

Any level of conviction of that had faded away.

And I was floating.

This was in 1999,

And at that time,

There was a really big computer boom,

Right?

Everything was computers,

Computers,

Computers,

And I just kept hearing be a computer programmer,

Like guaranteed you're going to be successful.

And so in my state of.

Non-direction,

I decided,

Yeah,

Computer programmer,

Why not?

I was good at computers,

I enjoyed them.

And I told this to my mother and she looked at me with this face of bewilderment.

And she said,

Are you sure?

Are you sure that's what you want to be?

That doesn't sound like you.

And I was like,

Oh,

Yeah,

Yeah,

I'm I'm sure.

Sign me up.

And I applied for DeVry Institute of Technology in Arizona.

I was living in Oregon from Oregon.

And I took the SAT test and I got 10 points off of what was needed to get into DeVry University.

Now,

Again,

I wasn't straight A student,

AP classes.

I was taking college level classes.

I had graduated half a year early.

I could have graduated a year early,

But my school just didn't allow it.

Even though I had all of the credits and everything,

I was already taking college classes,

The SAT test wasn't a big deal for me.

So I took it again.

And I took it again.

And I failed.

All three times.

And by the third time,

I was frustrated and I came home and I collapsed on the ground and I cried and.

My mother looked at me again and she said,

Are you sure that this is what you want to do?

Now,

At the time,

I had been working actually my entire high school career,

I had been working,

I was I loved working on top of school,

I loved working,

I was a very ambitious person.

I actually had two jobs in my senior year.

On top of school,

But for my entire high school career,

I had been working at a board shop,

A surfboard,

Wakeboard,

Skateboard shop,

And.

This man had come in and he had been talking about Australia and my friends had just gone to Fiji and all of these things,

And little did I know,

My subconscious mind was like kind of like storing all of this information away.

Pretty much unbeknownst to my conscious mind.

And when my mother asked that in this moment where I was on the floor,

Collapsed,

Crying,

Are you sure this is what you want to do?

Out of seemingly nowhere,

Even though there did have some context to it,

This voice came out of my mouth and said,

No,

I want to travel the world.

And I honestly didn't know where that voice came from.

I thought I was going to university,

Where did this voice come from that said it wanted to travel the world?

And I waited for my mother to dismiss my foolishness and all of the things,

And she didn't.

She said,

Yeah,

Do that,

Do that while you're young.

This is the time to do that,

Do that if that's what you want.

And that blew my mind.

And now I was really struck with.

Is that what I want,

Is that what I desire?

Long story short.

I did it,

I got on a plane at 19 years of age and I traveled around the world,

I ended up becoming a scuba diving instructor and taught scuba diving and lived abroad for years and I would have changed it for anything.

Somewhere along the way,

An intrinsic desire to go to university had faded and it had become an extrinsic desire and had been something that I just knew I should do,

That would be good for me,

I'm a good student,

I love to learn,

That's what I should do.

And it didn't work.

It didn't work for me.

And there's actually studies that have proven that intrinsic drive doesn't work the majority of the time.

So let me step back here for just a moment.

What is intrinsic drive and extrinsic drive?

So intrinsic drive is the things that we desire to do,

Our pleasure,

Our desires,

The things that feel good.

At some point,

University was that for me.

When I was younger and I knew for sure what I wanted to be and I had that goal and that decision.

But somewhere along the way,

That faded.

And it became an intrinsic drive where it's something outside of you that you think you believe has long term value,

That it's definitely going to benefit you or your family or society or the world,

Or it's going to be good or it's going to do this or,

You know,

The shoulds or the have tos or the makes logical sense drives.

But studies have actually shown that the intrinsic drives.

Those are the ones that hold power for perseverance.

Because I think we can all agree that when you really want to go after something or create something,

Pursue a desire,

It takes,

It requires perseverance.

And the bigger,

Quote unquote,

That is the more perseverance that requires because you're going to hit obstacles along the way.

And so what the studies revealed was that intrinsic drive,

Right,

These things that feel good to us,

They give us instant gratification where we're enjoying the process of whatever that is.

We're enjoying the process.

Where extrinsic drive,

We are placing that enjoyment somewhere at the end.

When I finish this,

Then I'll have it.

It'll be good for me.

I'll get the thing,

Whatever it is.

And when we hit those blocks and those barriers and those challenges,

And we don't have that sense of gratification,

Part of us is like,

What's the,

What's the point?

Why am I doing this?

And.

This is important.

This is important to understand because you have the option to create your goals,

Your,

Your desires,

Your intentions.

What do you want to call them?

The things you want to create either through intrinsic drive or through extrinsic drive.

Now,

There's some things that we say we just have to do,

Right?

Like adulting that word,

Right?

We have to,

We have to pay our taxes.

We have to pay our bills.

And there's things we have to do that they don't necessarily bring us joy.

They don't necessarily,

You know,

Have that intrinsic drive that we're like,

Ah,

So much gratification as I'm doing this.

And there are ways that we can work around that and through that to have that intrinsic drive,

Even while we're doing things that are more of an extrinsic drive,

Because,

You know,

It's definitely extrinsic drive to not desire the IRS to be after you.

Nobody wants that.

But do you get gratification paying your bills?

Some people do.

Some people don't.

Right.

I enjoy it in the context that it's something off of my list,

But I don't actually enjoy the process of paying my bills or paying my taxes.

But if you want to create intentions and goals for yourself that not only you really want to create them,

You want to succeed in them,

But that grant you that feeling of gratification,

That feeling of fulfillment along the way,

Then why not?

Why not?

So there's a couple of things to be aware of when you're exploring this conversation.

So I want to give you some steps on how you can ensure that you are creating through intrinsic drive.

First off,

You can take a tally right now of the goals and desires that you have,

Or perhaps you set New Year's resolutions,

Something like that,

And ask yourself,

Is this internal or external?

Right.

Is this something that really lights you up,

That ignites you,

That you feel passionate about,

That you would enjoy doing?

Or is this something that you have a perceived benefit from,

That somebody told you you should do,

Like your doctor or your boss?

Is it the logical next step,

Like moving up in your career or scaling your business,

But doesn't actually light you up necessarily?

So take a tally,

Sit down with your goals and your intentions,

And ask yourself that simple question.

Is it intrinsic or is it extrinsic?

Now,

If it's extrinsic,

That doesn't mean you have to just swipe left or delete or burn it in the fire.

There's a couple of options for you here if it's something that you have to do.

So for instance,

Let's take something like health,

Right?

Maybe your doctor is telling you that you need to eat healthy or you need to exercise more or something like that,

And you understand the benefits,

Right?

Like this is not just for you.

This is for your family.

You don't want to die early.

You want to stay healthy.

You want to be around for your children or for your wife or your husband or whoever it is,

Right?

You can see the benefit,

But eating healthy or working out or whatever it is your doctor is telling you to do doesn't turn you on.

It doesn't light you up.

There's just nothing there.

It's not like,

Oh,

Yay,

I get to do that.

It actually feels like a chore.

So if you have something like that,

An extrinsic drive,

Then what you want to do is explore where can you make this intrinsic?

So for instance,

Let's say it's exercise.

I personally have never really enjoyed running,

But when I'm outside running,

I enjoy it very,

Very much,

Particularly in the early morning when it's that first light,

Those early mornings out in nature,

Not like on a park,

Not on a sidewalk,

Out in,

Like surrounded by trees.

I love it.

So if I was told that I had to exercise,

I had to run per se.

If I go to a gym,

I can go to gym and lift weights.

That's fine for me.

But to go to a gym and run for something that already I don't like doing,

It just drains the life out of me.

I have there's my motivation is gone.

I already don't like this.

And now I'm doing it in a way that I really don't like.

And now my motivation is gone.

But,

Ah,

Is there a way that I could run that I do enjoy?

Absolutely.

Outside in nature.

And that's what I do every other day.

I run outside in nature.

And so something that I know that benefits me,

It's the cardio,

It's the running that benefits my body very much.

My body loves the running.

I don't run a great distance.

I don't run super fast,

But it's just that consistent cardio that I bring to myself.

I know the benefits,

The logic,

How it's going to always benefit me.

But to make it an intrinsic drive for me,

It really has to be outside.

Now,

I live in Colorado.

There are times when it's but as cold.

And for the most part.

You know,

Any anything above freezing,

I will run in,

Just put on extra layers.

And then there are times where it is too cold and I will run inside once in a while.

That's OK,

Because my intrinsic drive is giving me that consistent feeling of fulfillment,

Of joy,

Of satiation.

So it's OK here and there that it's not outside.

And I still make it happen.

I still do it.

So that is one way of taking something that is extrinsic and exploring how can you make it intrinsic?

What are what are the environments or what are the things if it is exercise?

What kind of exercise do you like and what kind of exercise could you say yes to?

Maybe it is playing,

You know,

Pickleball or something with a friend that it's,

You know,

It's it's time together.

It's spending time together with somebody.

You're playing a game,

You know,

But you're exercising,

Right?

That's another example of intrinsic drive from something that you're being told you need to do that extrinsic.

So you can always play.

And the best energy here is the energy of curiosity.

The energy of curiosity is very powerful.

Because it opens the mind instantly,

Instead of saying,

I don't like to do that,

I don't want to run,

I don't want to exercise,

Closed mind,

Closed off,

No solution.

When we bring in the energy of curiosity,

I don't know,

Is there a way that I could run that would feel good?

Is there a way that I could exercise that I would actually enjoy?

And you're not requiring the answer right away.

This is one of the tricks to curiosity,

Because if your mind is very stuck on a belief,

I don't like to run.

That's my belief.

Sometimes if we say,

Oh,

But is there a way that I would like to run it?

No,

I don't like to run.

The mind just shuts you down.

If you have a strong mind,

Like I do,

And strong belief in that given topic or whatever it is,

Strong perspective,

Our mind can be very bullheaded,

Stubborn.

So curiosity is the question.

I don't know,

Is there a way?

Without needing an answer,

Then you just let it go.

You let it go.

You let it out of the mind.

No need to answer.

And you see what comes back,

Because it will.

But you have to listen to your external reality.

Sometimes these answers come back and something a friend says,

Oh,

I played pickleball the other day.

And if you're just not listening,

You're like,

Oh,

That sounds wonderful.

You played pickleball.

Oh,

Great.

You know,

You're not picking up on that was an answer to your question or potentially an answer to your question.

I don't know.

Is that?

Oh,

Pickleball?

Oh,

I never thought about playing.

What's that like?

Maybe would you be open to me coming and playing with you one time and seeing if I enjoy it,

Right?

Curiosity,

Open mindedness,

Open,

Open to ideas,

Open to new ways of being.

And just allow,

Allow yourself to be guided into ways that you can do things that do instill intrinsic drive.

OK,

So that's that's point number two is being able to take an extrinsic drive and shifting it around to be intrinsic.

Another way,

This is point three,

Is sometimes you can combine the two of them.

So if it's just like like paying taxes,

Right,

There's really no way to pay taxes that,

You know,

OK,

I'm going to I'm going to how are you to pay taxes that alters the actual act of paying taxes?

Right.

But you can alter the environment.

You can alter the mood that you're in.

You can alter what you're doing while you're paying the taxes.

You can alter everything about the experience of paying taxes.

Right.

So point three is you can actually combine intrinsic drive with extrinsic drive.

So,

OK,

I have to pay my taxes.

Well,

What if I went to my favorite coffee shop?

They're always just they've got such a great vibe.

They've always got great music on.

I just feel relaxed there.

It's an environment that I naturally feel like I go there.

And I work on my I pay my taxes.

Right.

Or what if I go do something very freeing,

Very fulfilling,

Very much.

I go and I spend money on me.

Right.

Or something like that,

Like I go and enjoy myself.

And then the intention is,

As soon as I finish that,

I come back,

I pay the taxes,

I'm done.

And that's complete.

Right.

So you have that fulfillment that carries into the extrinsic drive.

So you can combine them.

Right.

Another example would be.

I mean,

One example is working out and listening to music.

People do that all the time.

And they don't even realize that often for most of them,

Not most of them.

Let me rephrase that.

For many of them,

This is combining because many people don't like to work out.

But they do like to listen to music.

So they let the music,

You know,

Activate their body and turn them on and make them feel good.

And then they bring that energy and that fulfillment into working out.

You can read a book while you work out.

Right.

If you need to get some serious work done,

You need to really like focus,

You can take yourself out of your environment,

You can go somewhere on like a mini vacation.

To someplace that you really like.

And I know that doesn't sound nice,

Like,

Oh,

Vacation while you work,

But you're not actually doing a vacation while you work.

You're actually like instilling vacation into your work.

You're taking yourself somewhere out of your norm,

Right,

So that you can focus and pour yourself into it.

But it's somewhere that you really like.

Perhaps it's somewhere beautiful.

Perhaps you rent something that,

You know,

You can just look out at this amazing view and you place your desk there.

And so you allow yourself to really be in your work.

But you have this fantastic view and a room service,

Right?

These are all the kinds of things.

These are examples of how we can combine these things.

And ultimately create more power for perseverance,

Move through the obstacles,

But not just move through them in a way that,

You know,

A lot of times also this extrinsic drive can create resentment.

It can create,

You know,

Negative feelings because you're not enjoying yourself.

Who wants to accomplish a goal and not enjoy themselves?

Yes,

There is some level of challenge always,

But this idea that there's no pain,

No gain in the context of you just got to put down your head and drive through things and just do it till you get there.

I mean,

I'm all for pain.

That's why this is called the sacred,

The sadist.

I see great,

Great value in pain in the context of it's trying to teach us something,

Show us something,

Really open us up to more.

But if we're just,

You know,

Causing ourselves pain and relentless unsatisfaction,

That's not using pain powerfully.

And the beautiful thing is also that when you come from this place of intrinsic drive,

Which AKA is also known as pleasure.

When you are taking action from a place of pleasure,

Things that you want to do,

Things that bring you joy,

Things that you like,

It softens the pain.

It makes the challenge,

The pain,

The conflict more digestible.

And not just as a mental process,

It actually makes it more digestible for your nervous system.

Because when we are in a state of pleasure,

You can't be in a state of pleasure and also be in a state of fear.

Those two do not work at the same.

If you're in fear,

You're not in pleasure.

If you're in pleasure,

You're not in fear.

They don't go together.

They don't happen simultaneously.

So when you are in that intrinsic drive and you are doing the things because you like it,

Then you are not,

Your nervous system is in a regulated state.

Your nervous system is in rest or digest,

Or it might even be in a hybrid of rest and digest and fight and flight,

Which that hybrid is the flow state.

So this is why creators and artists and athletes,

They reach the flow state because they're doing things that they love and they're still going for a goal.

Like they're not just doing things that they love with no direction,

Right?

They're doing things that they love with a direction,

With an intention to create something that there is the recipe of the most beautiful pie,

Cake,

Dessert,

Meal that you could ever create for yourself.

So remember these three points.

The first point is doing a tally of what are the intrinsic drives you already have and what are the extrinsic drives that you have?

And then point two is,

Can you turn some of those extrinsic into intrinsic by doing something or changing the environment or swapping something out that you really do intrinsically value?

And point three,

Or can you combine those extrinsic goals with some sort of intrinsic desire so that it bleeds into it,

It melts into it,

The music,

Right?

The music while you work out,

The music is what fuels the motion.

And you can experience fulfillment,

You can experience gratification,

You can experience satisfaction throughout the process.

Now,

Perseverance doesn't feel so grinding.

And now you have the recipe for the perfect cake.

As always,

I greatly appreciate you.

Thank you so much for joining me here today.

Much love.