So,
Hi,
I'm Tom Evans and welcome to another Zone Show.
So good to have the Zone Show back on air after that hiatus of about a year.
And today I'm speaking to a very special person,
Mary Maddux of Meditation Oasis.
Hi Mary,
Welcome to the Zone Show.
Well,
Hello Tom and thank you for having me here.
I'm excited about this.
Now you're,
We're fellow Insight Timer meditation guys.
That's pretty much how our pasts met.
But I know by looking at your website and what I've observed from you,
You're much wider than even the wide Insight Timer.
But I also scroll down in your website just before we started talking.
And down the bottom it says copyright 2006 to 2020.
So you've been doing this a long time and I guess your journey didn't start in 2006 either.
No,
No,
Yeah.
I've,
This is pretty much lifelong.
I learned meditation in my early 20s and this is decades ago,
I will say.
And so I started teaching it actually in the 80s.
But I've had,
My life has woven in and out of different paths.
I've done a lot of different things,
But I always sort of circle.
I ended up circling back to meditation and starting in 2002,
My husband who is the techie of us and who composes music and I ended up making a CD.
There's a whole story how that came about with meditation.
So starting in 2002,
We started to put it out to the wider world.
And then in 2006 when podcasts started to be a thing,
We started a podcast,
Meditation Races podcast.
And that's when we started using that name.
And that's when we created that website because we were finding we were getting a good response and wanted to connect more with people.
So 2006 we created the website and then in 2009 when apps started to be a thing,
We created meditation apps,
More than just meditation,
Relaxation,
Wellness.
And so those,
We were very popular for a while because the app store is a very different place.
I won't go into all of that.
But so for a while we were creating apps.
So this has been a long,
Long,
Long evolution.
And then I ended up being on Insight Timer even before it was acquired by Christopher and his brother.
Actually Tara Brock and I were the first guided meditations that were put on Insight Timer.
Wow,
That's amazing.
And so then I've just been on there and then it's become more and more of interest,
More of a venue.
So I started uploading more of my work and I will do that from time to time.
But right now,
As I told you,
I'm on a kind of sabbatical.
Well,
I want to come back to the sabbatical,
But I just want to explore with you a little bit more about meditation.
So you know,
People say,
People use the word meditation,
Mindfulness and mindfulness meditation.
Are you more a meditation kind of person than a mindfulness kind of person?
Yes.
And that's very observant of you because well,
A lot of people equate mindfulness and meditation.
Mindfulness has become quite prevalent and people may hear about meditation first with that use of the word mindfulness.
I actually don't have a background in mindfulness.
No formal background whatsoever.
That is not how my development started.
And so yes,
I'm very much on the meditation side of things.
Mindfulness meditation is just part of mindfulness.
Mindfulness is,
And I can't talk with any authority about mindfulness,
But it's a whole discipline or field that is broader than just meditation.
So mindfulness meditation is one type of meditation.
And meditation,
Obviously you've got some of the classic applications for meditation covered by your material.
So relaxation and what have you.
What do you really think the purpose of meditation is though from,
Let's say the purpose of our soul,
If you like,
Our higher purpose?
Tom,
I knew you were going to ask great questions.
It's for me,
I like to think of meditation as discovery and self discovery.
One thing we always do,
Regardless of the form of meditation is that we allow our focus to go inward rather than its usual involvement in daily activities and even kind of outward in the sense of the way that we think,
Get involved in our intellectual analysis of things.
It's an opportunity to go inward.
So we unplug from the way we're usually engaged in life.
And I think it's just natural for the mind to want to know more of itself,
To want to expand,
To want to.
It's a natural impulse to want to know,
To know ourselves.
If people ask me how long do I meditate for?
And like,
Let's say formally,
I might meditate for five or 20 or 30 minutes a day.
But I noticed after meditating for about three or four years,
I just entered the meditation state 24 seven.
So it became a way of mind almost.
Right.
For you.
Well,
You know,
Meditation,
I want to say that we get focused on meditation as a practice.
But what's important is that meditative state.
That's what we're meditating to get into the flow into that meditative state.
And regular meditation will make that happen more often.
And we're in war of the time.
And so that's wonderful.
So it's actually the key to get you into the zone that we talk about on this show quite a lot.
Absolutely.
It trains your mind to behave in a different way.
What do you think leads someone to want to meditate?
So sometimes their doctor tells them to meditate,
Or they've heard it's a good thing.
And so it would seem as if there's something outside of themselves that's prompted them to meditate.
But there is inside all of us drive to know ourselves a drive to allow the mind to expand to experience the meditative state,
Which is,
You know,
You could say our birthright,
Part of who we are as human beings.
And so I think that one way or another,
That drive can take us to meditation,
Whether it's because we go to a doctor and we have high blood pressure.
The doctor says,
You know,
Try meditation.
Well,
Why do we have high blood pressure?
We're missing a very important human ability,
Which is,
You know,
Which is the antidote to stress and suffering.
So there's some way that we end up at that first meditation sitting,
Whether it's with a teacher or a guided meditation.
But I think it's coming from this natural drive of life to evolve.
So when you get to meditate regularly,
And you get to the other side,
Apart from,
Let's say less stress and less anxiety,
Maybe less in a chatter,
You know,
Those demons that sit on our shoulders talking in our ears and what have you.
What's life like on the other side?
How would you describe it?
Well,
First of all,
I don't want to be someone who claims to be totally on the other side.
That can be kind of sticky kind of thing to claim.
But let's just say that there's that experience of being in the flow.
There's not a conflict within the mind.
You're moving through the day and your decisions become more easy because you're in touch with a kind of more inner intuitive direction to your life and you're trusting that inner self,
That intuition.
So there's not so much conflict and indecision.
There's more of a sense of being at peace with whatever happens and with however we react to it.
Because things are going to happen that are going to be very upsetting.
There are going to be times when we do things we wish we hadn't done.
But there's more peace that's developed with that,
More ability to go with the flow of whatever's happening so that life becomes just more relaxed and enjoyable.
It's pretty simple.
It's not.
Well,
Let's say we like the Zongyo to be educative and entertaining as well.
And you did say you'd either live meditation.
So rather than just talking about it,
And this doesn't have to be very long at all.
And if you're driving,
Pull over or skip this bit if you like.
Do you want to just take people through a very short script that gets us to that calm place?
Okay.
So if you are in a situation where you can sit comfortably or lie down,
Take a deep breath.
Allow your eyes to close.
And we'll begin by simply noticing whatever is happening right now.
So you may notice sounds around you or the feeling of the temperature in the room.
Perhaps you'll notice how your body feels as you're sitting or lying down.
We're just allowing ourselves to settle and be right where we are and be just exactly how we are.
And let go of any resistance about it,
Any judgment about it.
Let go of feelings that we should feel differently than we do.
Let go of any attempt to make ourselves feel a particular way.
We can't relax by trying to relax.
It all has to do with letting go of effort.
So simply being aware of what's happening.
Just allowing yourself to be.
And if you want to,
You can take a deep breath.
I just notice how your breathing is going.
The breath happens effortlessly.
Without our doing anything,
We can be as effortless as the breath.
All of life is happening that way,
Spontaneously.
And whatever is happening is just right.
Let it be just right.
And if for any reason you're feeling unsettled or not quite right,
Then as soon as you can,
Take time for a longer meditation.
Just take a moment to transition back,
Back to the talk,
Back to the room.
You might want to stretch and take a deep breath and then open your eyes.
Well,
Thank you so much,
Mary.
Can I just say how effortless that was?
You just went into a really easy state.
So this is just an audio-only podcast,
But I got you on video and I could just see a very relaxed,
Happy face,
No stress,
And put on the spot like that.
And it just all just flowed,
Which is absolutely part of it,
I guess,
Isn't it?
You know,
Things flow,
You know,
The best when you're in a meditative state.
I do think that all of the regular meditation for so many years,
I can just close my eyes and be there,
Especially when I'm about to create a meditation.
So when I create my guided meditations,
I'm just meditating with you.
Now,
That's really important because I've noticed some meditation guides where you can kind of tell they're reading a script into a microphone.
That's fine,
Because we all got to do something some way.
And people have always said to me,
There's something different about your meditations.
And when I work on Insight Timer,
You can respond.
And I tell them that's because I didn't just read a script into a microphone.
I was in a deep meditative state doing that job.
So you've always got to get this confident,
This unconscious confidence of the tools of you,
The microphone and the recording.
And so people mirror,
Don't they?
In the same way you might mirror people watching someone with a golf swing or something like that.
You mirror the meditative state and you get into that state,
Which I've also done in groups that I'm sure you have as well,
Which is great fun.
That's why groups are so wonderful,
Because we all resonate with each other.
I think it's like a turning point.
And it's coming across in your voice.
It's coming across in your manner of speaking.
That state is coming across.
So it's part of the magic.
Well let's talk about the state of being in sabbatical.
That's fascinating.
What led you to this decision in the first place or the decision to arrive on your doorstep?
The decision really arrived on my doorstep.
I was very tired.
So it kind of started with an awareness that I needed to rest more.
And it's also an awareness that all of my life I've been rather driven to do,
Do,
Do,
Accomplish.
Get that to-do list done.
Get that next podcast done.
And I think I wouldn't stop a lot of days when I just should stop.
When my body was saying,
Hey I want a break.
Just wasn't tuning in enough,
Being in tune enough with what my body needed and wanted.
So it started with kind of backing off gradually how much I was doing and allowing myself more space.
Kind of,
You know,
As we talk about meditation,
This sabbatical is kind of like being in a big meditation.
Or on my own meditation retreat.
Because I'm allowing a lot of time just for reflection,
For walking in nature,
For all of the things that helped me to become more in tune with my true self,
My aesthetic self.
You like to use the word soul.
You could use the word soul.
And then also a lot came up for healing.
All of my life has been a path of healing,
Really,
Self-healing.
I had a very difficult childhood and I think that set me on a quest for healing and peace and joy.
And I had done a lot of that and a lot of what I've shared over the years as I've played different roles and done different things.
A lot of what I have shared is what has helped me.
And so in that,
I think,
You know,
Maybe people have noticed when they'll start to meditate,
Sometimes things will surface that they didn't know they were upset about or a memory will surface and it'll be,
Oh my goodness,
I didn't realize I still had so many feelings about that.
So giving myself all that leisure allowed things to surface.
So I've been spending some time also with self-healing.
And I just at some point gave up on knowing what my next step is as far as projects.
No,
Will I create more God in meditations or will I do something completely different?
I'm just going to find out when the time is right.
How many months are you into this meditation?
Did you set a time to say like a year or something like that?
Well,
At first I set up a time and then I got to the end of the time and I felt like no,
I want to keep going.
And I mean,
I'm fortunate.
I don't have a family to pay for.
I lead a very simple life.
I've kept my expenses very low because I wanted to do this work and this kind of work doesn't usually bring you a lot of money.
So I have a pretty simple life and at this point I have the luxury of taking more time.
And I sometimes you have to let go of something for a while.
I've been the meditation teacher now for so many years.
It's almost like an actor who gets typecast.
And I have many other facets of things to offer and ways to offer them.
And so I need to let these new ideas come forth.
And part of that is just taking enough time to sort of let the old go.
And has anything snuck in that you weren't expecting already?
Oh,
Well,
Yeah.
And I don't know if any of these things will become things,
But poetry has snuck in just in my mind.
I used to write poetry when I was very young.
Songs.
I have a little dog.
I'm totally,
Totally head over heels in love with this dog.
And I'm always singing to her.
And I've sometimes thought,
Oh,
I'd love to create an album of songs for your pet,
For kids.
Just some really interesting things have popped in.
And so I don't know.
I don't know if it'll be something really light and different like that.
It might be a book.
I've always thought of writing a book.
And I don't know.
Things pop in.
I don't know what it's going to take.
A lot of times on my path,
I've ended up doing something because somebody invited me to or asked me to.
There was a time in my life when I was teaching energy healing,
Hands-on healing,
A program I had studied with.
And then I kind of created my program out of it.
And one day this young woman said,
Oh,
I want to be your apprentice.
And I've never thought of having apprentices.
But I thought,
Well,
If she wants to be my apprentice,
Maybe I'll have something to offer.
And I ended up creating an apprenticeship.
And it was just a half a dozen people.
But I had a year apprenticeship.
So I know that at some point,
The next thing will become clear and I'll start doing it.
And that isn't that lovely because that happened to me too.
I became an author by accident.
And I put meditations with my books as accessories.
And I thought I was an author with meditations on the side.
And then Insight Timer found me.
And I remember Maddie,
I asked her how she found me.
She said,
I can't remember.
Then all of a sudden,
The meditation side comes up.
And now a new phase is arriving.
And again,
It's going into this sabbatical zone,
This space,
Isn't it,
Where things come right.
Do you know a chap called Joseph Emmett?
Have you ever come across him?
Wow.
That name is very familiar.
He's been on The Zone Show.
He's a lovely guy.
I think he used to be on Insight Timer ages ago.
But what I'm going to do in this podcast,
I'll put my interview with him on.
And he does meditative songs.
Oh,
Okay.
And they're really,
Really charming.
He would be the first to say he's not got the best singing voice in the world.
But they're so entertaining and charming.
And of course,
I always call my meditations short stories for the mind anyway.
What's the difference between a short story and a guided meditation really?
And I just think that what's arrived on your doorstep could be something,
One,
It's really charming and two,
It appeals to people that wouldn't maybe go for standard guided meditations.
Right,
Right.
And right,
Because you can get this across.
Again,
We're talking about people discovering the ability of their own mind and their own heart.
And that can happen in myriad of ways.
I love your,
There's one of your meditations,
I think it's about 10 minutes long that I love.
And you're kind of talking about time.
And it just totally,
I mean,
I just was intrigued by the fact that it just kind of put me into the timeless like really fast.
And that's because I was in that state when I recorded it.
So you're going to mirror it.
And so one thing is that sometimes we become immune to whatever technique system we're using,
Whatever words we've heard.
And having it come from a completely different angle.
I mean,
The things that you do are so creative.
And so I think it wakes up the mind and you're not using the standard stuff,
Which you can just start becoming,
You know,
Your mind doesn't respond after a while to something or that can happen.
And I'm like,
You have not been trained.
I've got zero mindfulness training,
Very little meditative training.
I just went on,
I think I went on a weekend hypnotherapy course and learned some hypnotic language about 15 years ago.
That was it really.
But it's storytelling,
I think.
And also why I love the Rekerside timer more than any other app.
You can put anything on there.
You can put diatomic patients on there.
You can put short stories.
You can put these podcasts,
Which is great.
And I also love that there's a fantastic community there.
And we've got that ability to liaise with people and to communicate a message and what have you.
And some of the people I've never met in real life become really good friends as well.
So it's actually more than a meditation app.
It's like a social media forum with all the.
.
.
Oh,
True.
Yeah.
It's an amazing,
Insight Timer is amazing.
Isn't it,
Josh?
Yeah.
And the name does not give it away,
Does it?
So the name is strange.
Yeah,
Well,
There's a long history to that.
The app was originally called Zen Timer.
And then there apparently was some sort of clock,
Physical clock called a Zen Timer.
And they contacted the developer of the app and they said,
Look,
You're using our name.
We can't use our name.
So then they changed it to Insight Timer.
But the app originally was just a timer.
And it was for people who were more in the mindfulness insight community.
And then that was the name of it already.
And it was established when they purchased it,
You know,
When Christopher and I wish I could.
.
.
Oh,
Nico,
I guess,
When they purchased it.
And so I guess the name stuck.
Wow.
Now,
I want to go back to something you said just earlier about being a healer.
Did your healing ability also arrive spontaneously?
I had training in it.
But I think that the training gave me techniques to also use an ability that was there.
And again,
I think even I think with healing,
A lot of these hands on healing methods,
We all have that ability.
You know,
You comfort someone,
You touch them,
And there's your intention for their healing and your love and that's healing.
So again,
It's just an extension of an ability.
And yeah,
I don't know.
Let me ask another question.
I'm just personally intrigued.
And if I'm intrigued,
I'm sure the listeners are intrigued too.
I've always been uncomfortable with the word psychic.
And I've also come to the word spiritual.
Someone says,
Oh,
You're a very spiritual person.
Because we're all spirits in a human body.
But there's a term that Rudolf Steiner used,
And I guess he must have got it from the Theosophysiological movement of supersensibility.
And I've just been intrigued to know what supersensibilities,
I don't mean this in an elitist way,
You know,
That you've got these abilities that other people have got.
What have you found through meditation?
What senses have been heightened through your meditative journey?
Well,
You know,
I think everything's heightened.
Color and sound,
Everything becomes more rich.
I'm also more sensitive,
Though,
In a way to sounds that are grating or,
You know,
Unpleasing.
But then also just remember,
There are many,
Many different kinds of people.
I think I just have a sensitivity to begin with,
For good and for not so good.
So,
But I think when you're talking about super,
Is it supersensitivity?
That's the term that Sonny uses,
Yeah.
I think that you're talking about more the,
Not what you would call the gross senses,
But more the soul senses.
That's right,
Yeah.
And so that would be like inner vision,
You know,
Or,
I mean,
It almost sounds like you might be talking about abilities like clairvoyance and clairaudience.
Yeah,
But again,
I'm not,
Yes,
I'm not even comfortable with those terms.
Yeah,
Sure,
I get it.
Yeah,
I've avoided.
If you'll notice,
I don't think I've marked any of my meditations as spiritual,
Because therefore,
They're universal.
For everybody,
It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as spiritual or not.
And then we all have different definitions of what spiritual is.
I mean,
You know,
So we,
Yeah,
That's a really tricky word.
But so,
But I'm thinking,
I'm thinking you must be referring to more.
So let's say you have the gross intellect and that intellect is the one where you can balance your checkbook,
You can work out a problem.
You can write down a string of words and,
You know,
With the proper pronunciation,
You can organize things.
But then there's also intuition.
And that's something that just comes in a flash.
There may not be any words with it or very few words.
It's something that's,
I guess you could say from an I believe,
I feel a deeper level of the mind or a different way of the mind functioning,
Different way of knowing.
Well,
Funnily enough,
That was what my intuition told me would be your intuition.
So therefore,
It might.
So there we go.
I almost didn't need to ask the question,
But the exploration of it was,
Was fascinating.
So let me ask you,
These are going to end with a couple of big questions.
So the first question is,
There's lots of things happening in the world right now.
Obviously,
We've got the coronavirus thing going on and we've just done our Brexit over here and you've got a president that seems to behave in all sorts of ways that don't seem overly presidential.
But I'm sure he's another soul on a journey in a human body and another spirit having this experience.
So we must bear that in mind.
But when,
Are you optimistic for the world?
Oh,
Wow.
When I see a lot of the young people,
Some of them like Greta Thunberg or young people who are stepping up and have this energy and commitment to the survival of the planet and to making a better human race,
That gives me a lot of optimism.
You know,
This is something that I struggle with actually,
In the sense that I want to step out of us being human beings on planet Earth and know that there's this vast,
Vast,
Vast universe with many galaxies and many probably other planets with intelligent or not so intelligent life.
And I kind of need to make reference to that sometimes because sometimes I do feel a concern that if we as human beings aren't able to come out of our individual me,
Me,
Me way of being and live from a more collective space,
You know,
Where we're able to,
To care about and discern that what is the benefit for the whole,
What benefits all of us and therefore myself as well,
Unless we can get to that place,
Then I kind of wonder.
So I'd like to be just a hundred percent optimistic,
But I,
I,
I just don't know.
We're in a really,
We are in a kind of crazy time.
So is meditation then the key?
If you know the inside time is say they're trying to get everyone,
The whole world meditating one person for free,
We get the whole world meditating.
Does that give us cause for optimism?
Well,
That would give us tremendous cause for optimism.
But I mean,
Because things have to change in human consciousness in the way we experience ourselves,
Experience others,
Moving from separation to a sense of unity,
All of the things that can come with meditation,
As well as the being able to,
To feel fulfillment and simply being alive.
There's so many things,
There's so many things that meditation does for a person that would completely change how all human kind and society is.
So yes,
If we can get everybody meditating,
That would be wonderful.
So let me ask this other question.
That's another big question.
So I know that we,
We both don't,
We're not comfortable with the word psychic or clairvoyant and what have you,
And you haven't necessarily got a crystal ball.
But in your,
Let's just explore your heart's desire.
Let's imagine we talk in another,
In another year's time,
Where would you like to be and where would you like the world to be?
I really would like for myself to be back,
To be in a place where I'm working again to create things that will benefit people.
And certainly I would like to see that in a year's time that I'm back kind of in action as it were.
But,
But in it,
Maybe with a different angle.
Definitely a different angle.
I,
You know,
When we started the podcast,
And even before that with our CDs,
Not many people were meditating,
Not,
Not that many people even had heard of it.
So you know,
There was a huge goal and kind of a mission to get it out to more people.
And now,
Yes,
We need to reach more people,
But you know,
It's so available and we're starting to see it everywhere.
And pretty much anyone at least knows meditation exists.
So I don't feel such a compulsion about that.
And I create that,
You know,
I think that anybody who happens to resonate with my work,
I've created a body of work.
There are over 50 meditations on my podcast that are free for the listening.
So I don't feel a lot of drive in that direction.
So it probably will be something different.
Wow.
And yeah,
I'd really like to see that because I love it when my heart is really engaged in giving and sharing.
And then for what would I like to see for the world?
Well,
I mean,
Of course,
I'd love to see us all living in peace and harmony.
I'd like to see that that there's less extremism and polarity,
You know,
This polarizing,
That there's some ability for people to honor and appreciate every other human being and be able to listen and to consider the possibility that the way they see things may not be absolutely 100% correct and the only way I think because I think that is creating a huge problem that you know,
Getting aligned with a certain candidate and if that candidate isn't,
You know,
The one that I'm just not even going to vote or,
You know,
I mean,
Some kind of settling down where we can be more open to each other and listen.
And there's a wonderful movie I just saw.
It was called I can't think of the name of it,
But it was about I think it was back in the 60s and something called a charrette and it was had to do with civil rights in this and it was a movie where this process called charrette was done in the South with a community that was having a problem over segregation,
Segregation,
Integration.
And so with a number of weeks that people from both sides had to meet and work out their differences,
You know,
To actually come to a consensus of what they were going to do.
And it was amazing because you had some Ku Klux Klan members on one side and some ardent people who would oppose them.
And these so these people with completely opposing views who would never have had any,
You know,
Idea that they would ever listen to each other had to listen to each other.
And people were able to do that.
And some people stayed in their positions.
Some people didn't.
But a lot of people came more to the middle.
And there was a friendship between the leaders of the two opposing sides.
Now wouldn't it be amazing then,
Because I'm sitting here in my general med state and what came in for me while you were saying that is you know these songs and stories that you're talking these short stories and songs you've got about.
Wouldn't it be amazing if they helped facilitate some of that?
Yes.
Yes.
Wow.
I'm just part of that now.
So,
And this leads us to just winding down this conversation to a close.
Wouldn't it be amazing that next time you're on the Zone show,
You can talk about these things?
That would be amazing.
Let's make it a goal.
Let's make it happen.
We'll allow it to happen.
So,
I've been looking forward to this conversation for many months.
I think we set it up several months ago.
And it was my soul that was looking forward.
You know,
This this in us.
I didn't know where it was going to go.
I only prepared the first question and everything else is just the conversation.
But where's the best place for people to land to find you?
Well,
Our website meditationwaces.
Com.
If people want to explore more about because on Insight Timer,
We don't have a lot of space to write or talk about ourselves or you know,
But then on Insight Timer,
I think that you just would do a search on Mary Maddox rather than meditationwaces.
And that's M-A-D-D-U-X.
Wonderful.
Mary,
It's been a wonderful opportunity to get to know you a bit more and see inside your world and your lovely mind.
Thanks for sharing that guided meditation too.
And I recommend everyone checks you out and has your voice in their head.
I also really,
Really hope we can speak.
It doesn't have to be a year's time.
It's whenever it arrives with some of this new stuff.
Let's stay in touch.
This has been so much fun.
I knew it would be wonderful.
I knew you'd ask great questions and did so.
It was thought provoking for me and it's a lot of fun.
Thank you.
My pleasure.
So I've been Tom Evans and thanks for listening to this own show and lovely insights and a fantastic meditation from Mary Maddox there.
And in the next episode,
I'll be speaking to an amazing lady,
Marielle Smith,
Who like me has helped many authors write their books.
Like me,
She's also a student of the tarot and especially how we can use the tarot to enhance our creativity and also other aspects of our lives.
So looking forward to that.
Thanks for listening.
