Learning From The Classics Podcast: Jane Austen And Stoicism

This track is a recording of my weekly LIVE PODCAST, Learning from the Classics, dated April 5th, 2025.

In this LIVE session, I will relate prompts from Classic Literature to the challenges we face every day. There is a certain sense of security in understanding that some struggles are universal and not personal to ourselves. In such novels, there is also a reconciliation to be had with souls we cannot and will not ever meet but who teach us so much.

All LIVES are available week to week on a playlist.

Transcript

Okay,

Hi everyone.

I'm going to get started.

Today we're looking at Sense and Sensibility and we are specifically comparing the two characters Eleanor and Marianne.

We are looking at it from a Stoic point of view.

So we are considering Jane Austen as someone who had Stoic principles.

We are considering her influences when she was writing,

Specifically from the Blue Stocking group which I'll go into a little bit more later.

A group of women who are intellectuals and trailblazers really of the Regency period and beyond into the Victorian era who collected together and they discussed Stoicism.

Which is great for us because there aren't very many references to women in the Stoic world apart from Portia Cato who I will touch on again later.

I want to change that.

For us in the 21st century,

So let's begin.

Sense and Sensibility,

Published in 1811.

Sense and Sensibility is available to listen to on my tracks and it was written by Jane Austen and it's a great example because it's set up as a bit of a debate between how two sisters behave when they're in love.

Both sisters fall in love,

Eleanor with a respectable Edward Ferrars and Marianne with attractive but unsuitable John Willoughby.

If you've seen the dramatisation,

Hopefully you've seen the one with Emma Thompson and Hugh Grant and you will come to appreciate from there it was quite,

I thought it was quite a poignant reflection of the story.

If you've seen it you will have a further understanding of visually the juxtaposition between one sister and the other.

There were actually three Dashwood sisters.

The youngest Margaret,

Although she doesn't feature very much.

Again,

The novel is set up more as a debate between the behaviour of Eleanor,

The eldest sister and her youngest sister Marianne.

So a little bit of history about the story if you haven't read it or haven't listened yet.

Eleanor,

Marianne and Margaret had a father Henry and Henry had a father.

He was the nephew of a man who owned an Orland house and he went to live there with his daughters and his wife.

He had a son from his former marriage and three daughters from his present,

If you like,

Marriage.

And when his father died he said,

Right I'm going to leave my fortune to the little boy of my grandson.

So their brother,

John Dashwood's son.

But I'm going to obviously leave it to John Dashwood first.

So he gets the property.

And I trust Henry,

My son,

That you will live on a long and fruitful life and you will be able to develop the estate and you in turn will leave a lot to your daughters.

Unfortunately,

Henry died within a year.

So he didn't have the opportunity to save and earn from the estate for his family.

And his and his wife were left in compromised circumstances.

Now I say that they wouldn't have been compromised circumstances if his son John Dashwood,

Their brother,

Had stepped up.

And he fully intended to but he married a rather devious character and selfish character and she was hell-bent on gleaning back as much as she could from their estate.

So that they went from having a few thousand a year to one thousand a year to practically nothing.

So then the wife of the now deceased Henry Dashwood and the three daughters moved out of Norland House.

They moved in and they had to move somewhere else to a humble little cottage.

Obviously not that humble but more humble.

And they had to make sense of that.

They had to exist in a different location and in a different way to which they were unaccustomed.

And the book is about how they,

So that was their call to action.

Your father's died,

You're not left very much,

Your brother's betrayed you with his wife,

You're going to have to move to this house without very much and make the best of it.

And the book is about how they do that.

Specifically Eleanor and Marianne.

Why?

It's a romance and it's about who they fall in love with.

Unfortunately they both fall in love with people who are otherwise engaged.

So Eleanor and Marianne represent respectively the title,

Sense and Sensibility.

So Eleanor being the sense,

Marianne being the sensibility.

The biggest contrast lies in their respective temperaments.

Eleanor is cool,

Rational,

Sensible,

With a strength of understanding that allows her to offer wise counsel to both her mother and her sister.

She's considerably more mature than her mother and her sister and she prevents them both in as much as she can from acting imprudently.

Although she's still an affectionate young woman.

She's still able to keep her emotions in check but she still has a great passion for Edward Ferrars which she tries her level best to manage as she has a very passionate younger sister who has got herself into a bit of a pickle.

And Eleanor is trying her best to put her feelings to the side and support her younger sister.

So it's almost a maternal role that she's offering.

Marianne meanwhile,

She's driven by her emotions to an alarming extent.

Now,

Personally,

I don't feel it's alarming,

I feel it's human.

But of course in the time and you've got to remember who's writing this novel is Jane Austen and Jane Austen is making a statement.

Okay,

So we've got these stoic ideas coming through and judgments.

I found this to be quite a judgmental novel.

And that can be seen as a strength,

The juxtaposition between the two or it can be seen as a weakness because emotions aren't weakness and they are depicted as being in this novel.

Which I struggled with a little bit.

But anyway,

Let's power on.

So Marianne's portrayed as someone who lacks in self-restraint.

She doesn't have an ability to control her feelings.

She's very vulnerable to emotional hurt.

She wears her heart on a sleeve and insists on following her heart wherever it may lead.

It's an extreme.

So they're set up as two extremes.

And really,

There's no middle ground.

But of course,

It wouldn't be a story unless there were extremes.

So yeah,

I get the feeling that Austen is vilifying Marianne for her actions for what she does.

And Austen herself,

Jane Austen,

Was influenced by Elizabeth Carter,

Who was someone who was a prominent 18th century classicist and blue stocking.

Okay,

And this blue stocking circle was a group of educated intellectual women in 18th century London,

Who formed this informal literary society.

Now,

We don't have necessary proof of Jane Austen being influenced by that,

Apart from that she was on the reading list from one of the.

.

.

She signed up for the reading list from one of the members of the circle.

So the blue stockings were seen as a model for rational forms of sociability.

They celebrated friendship,

Charity,

And female education,

Which of course,

Was astounding for the time.

They were trying to lay the foundations for civilized society.

And we understand as females that it's essentially largely upon us to educate the next generation,

And there was an acknowledgment of that amongst them.

So they championed,

The blue stocking group championed intellectual pursuits,

Female education,

And this was a stand against this male-dominated aristocratic society.

Why can't I say that word?

Aristocratic.

There you are.

They were making a stand and they were separating themselves.

And Elizabeth Carter was this classicist known for her translation of Epictetus' writings,

Who was a famous Greek philosopher,

And she was the leading member.

Okay,

And even if Austen had not met Carter,

It's noted that she was aware of her work and her teachings.

So these teachings,

This focus on women's roles and education likely resonated with Austen,

And she's seen to be,

As we know,

Exploring similar themes in her own novels.

Okay,

So this idea,

This resistance,

In a way,

From this group,

Within seemingly,

Of seemingly,

Traditional modes of femininity,

They didn't want to necessarily just talk about the books written by men that were portraying women just as feminine elements to a story.

There was more to that.

And this is the driving force,

It seems,

Behind much of Austen's work.

If we go back to Sense and Sensibility,

We're going to look at the contrast made between her by Austen,

And always remember,

When we're discussing literature,

It's who wrote it,

Not necessarily the story itself,

What the author is saying.

So we'll begin with Marianne.

So she is the youngest,

And that in itself denotes a certain vulnerability.

You've got Eleanor's path of,

Marianne would say,

Polite lies,

Okay,

And Marianne would say suppression,

And Eleanor of Marianne would say,

Well,

This is your quest to reject any kind of control,

Any kind of mastery of your emotions.

So two complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

And it's not really about literary prose,

You know,

It's not really about the beauty of the prose or anything,

With Sense and Sensibility,

Or the wit,

Although there are witty moments,

It's more about the juxtaposition between the two.

And what that means,

For a woman,

Okay,

The way you conduct yourself,

The way you manage and master what you're feeling,

Can somehow be related to your inner peace and happiness.

And essentially,

Any romance is leading that way.

What makes a woman happy?

There's more to it.

There's more to this story than who gets the man.

And that's why I like reading Jane Austen,

Because yes,

It's romance.

And yes,

By the patriarchy,

There were attempts to belittle it because of that.

But no,

Actually,

There's so much more depth to the message in each novel.

So when Marianne hears the news,

The person her elder sister Eleanor loves is engaged,

She's shocked.

Quote,

Four months,

So calm,

So cheerful.

How have you been supported?

She's incredulous.

She cannot believe it.

Okay,

So if we look at Austen's description of the two,

Eleanor,

This eldest daughter possessed a great strength of understanding and coolness of judgment,

Which qualified her,

Though only 19,

To be the counsellor of her mother.

Her disposition was affectionate.

Her feelings were strong,

But she knew how to govern them.

You cannot help but hear the adoration in Austen's words.

It was a knowledge which her mother had yet to learn and which one of her sisters had resolved never to be taught.

Already we are seeing this favouritism here.

I wonder which character Austen favours.

Marianne,

Was sensible and clever,

But eager in everything.

Her sorrows,

Her joys could have no moderation.

She was generous,

Amiable,

Interesting,

Everything but prudent.

Eleanor saw with concern the excess of her sister's sensibility,

But by Mrs Dashwood,

It was valued and cherished.

They encouraged each other now in the violence of their affliction.

Notice the word she's using.

They gave themselves up wholly to their sorrow,

Seeking increase of wretchedness in every reflection that could afford it.

Increase of wretchedness,

Harsh words indeed,

And resolved against ever admitting consolation in future.

Eleanor too,

She notes,

Was deeply afflicted.

But she could still struggle and exert herself.

She could receive her sister-in-law on her arrival and treat her with proper attention and could strive to rouse her mother to similar exertion and encourage her to similar forbearance.

Favouritism,

Jane favours Eleanor.

So we've got this comparison between one and the other.

Marianne has a propensity to fall for people with heightened sensibilities.

She leads with her heart.

She laughs at Edward Ferrer's they are friends for reading elegant prose with indifference.

She needs passion.

She needs drama.

She needs blood,

Sweat and tears.

And on the contrary,

Eleanor forms perceptions about people on the basis of their intention and sensitivities.

And it's an extreme.

I was drawn to Eleanor,

The character,

That I would say this idea that somehow complete restraint,

The complete restraint of Edward Ferrer's is attractive,

Is to me,

I just,

I can't see it.

But of course,

This is what she's doing.

Austen is setting up one against another.

So it wouldn't be a story unless you have the two extremes like Jekyll and Hyde,

Although that story came a lot later.

Okay,

So Marianne's looking for poetry read with a tender voice.

And she's looking for overt displays of passion.

So Eleanor is struggling.

She's maintaining this placid demeanour,

Even when faced with difficult situations.

But inside,

She is struggling to hold it together.

She endures her love for Edward Ferrer's in silence,

And she keeps her feelings private.

Is that to be championed,

I wonder?

Is that to be championed?

Well,

There's something to be said for that.

There's something to be said for maintaining inner peace.

And we can do that by saying this is very difficult for me.

But it's not going to be made any easier by me shouting and screaming and crying and running across the fields and exposing myself to the elements and getting completely drenched and being very ill.

But of course,

She's still feeling those things.

And in her heart,

That's what she is doing.

But she understands,

I am the older sister,

My younger sister is in turmoil.

And I this can't be about me at the moment.

This has to be about her and my mother's distraught.

And I'm going to have,

You know,

We've got this middle child syndrome,

Not quite,

But she's the second child.

She has an older brother.

And this sort of peacemaker trope,

This stalwart that everybody can rely on.

Being a middle child myself,

I feel that.

She's characterized by the ability to display strength,

Even when she's weak.

And there's something in that.

This is what stoicism is about.

It is not about the repression of feelings,

Even though at times she does.

And that's too extreme.

And I'm not on board with that at all.

But giving vent to her feelings in the right time and place for her so that she can manage to support others as well.

And in life,

We come across many situations like that,

That are demanding from us.

In a mastery,

We all came from a family,

Whether we were a single child or we've all experienced times when we have to support other people,

Even though we just want to only support ourselves,

We just about have enough energy to support ourselves.

And this is what stoicism is.

It's the digging deep and saying,

Okay,

What can I do?

How can I show up?

And how can I also be there for me?

So we're avoiding the extremes,

But we're not negating the level of emotion that we are experiencing.

So Marianne,

Characterized by her sensibility,

She's highly emotional,

She's romantic.

It's a bit of a trope.

Oh,

Women are so emotional.

And this is part of what has always driven me to stoicism is that I don't buy into that.

It doesn't reflect me and I'm a woman and I'm feminine.

So it's a middle ground I'm trying to expose you to,

I suppose.

So yes,

Her emotions were expressed outwardly.

They were very intense.

It was life or death to her.

And of course,

Bless his heart.

Along comes Alan Rickman to save the day.

Be still my beating heart,

Rest in peace,

Dear man.

So yes,

Along comes Alan Rickman to save the day.

And he's a stoic character.

And he is there and he is present and he continues to be present through thick and thin,

Even though it's tearing him to pieces.

His love for Marianne.

And he wins in the end.

How wonderful is that?

So Marianne's drawn to the arts and romantic ideals.

And Ellen who is portrayed as someone who is quite pragmatic about it all.

Again,

Another extreme,

Which I find quite hard to swallow.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

But again,

This is Austen's take.

This is the message she's making.

This is the comparison.

And this is the lesson we are to learn from this.

So Marianne,

In that way,

Is presented as someone who is more prone to suffering because she cannot master what she's feeling.

I speak as someone who is highly sensitive and I suffered in that way for the first 30 years of my life.

And then I understood that something had to change.

A fundamental shift had to take place in order for me not.

.

.

In order for me.

.

.

What are the words?

In order for life not to destroy me.

That sounds overdramatic,

Doesn't it?

But it's true.

And I will say it.

Okay,

So that's the novel in a nutshell.

Love it or hate it,

That's what Austen is doing.

And she is flying the flag for Stoicism.

And I really appreciate that,

Because it gives us hope.

It's a traditionally male-dominated philosophy.

And yet,

This is the 21st century,

Folks.

And we are going to reframe things for our benefit.

No excuses given.

No excuses given.

So I'm going to talk to you a little bit now about Stoicism itself.

I hope you are still with me thus far.

And I'm going to go on to Marcus Aurelius and meditations.

The reason I like this book.

.

.

And I do like.

.

.

I do have the habit of looking at things from a male perspective,

Which sounds ridiculous.

Look at me.

But I am notoriously masculine in my outlook in many things.

I have an understanding of the patriarchy.

I have an understanding of the power of voices,

Messages,

Who's writing the history.

And I say to myself,

This is not about being a man or a woman.

This is about my inner philosophy.

What I choose to adopt for my life.

I do not exist on this earth merely as one sex or another,

Even though I'm very female.

I exist as a human being,

And I will choose my philosophy according to what I'm drawn to.

I'm drawn to the philosophy of Marcus Aurelius,

Epictetus,

Seneca,

Which is a Stoic philosophy.

And this book,

Meditations,

And I'm sure a few of you at least have come across this,

Was written at a time when Marcus Aurelius was.

.

.

Sorry,

He's a Roman emperor,

And he's in this amphitheater,

And he's having to navigate the noise that is a political space.

And he's having to make sense of that and stay calm when all around him is madness.

And what he did was he wrote a journal.

See,

That's what this is.

And he wrote a few journals.

And this book is made up of those,

It's called Book 1,

2,

3,

And so on.

And this is made up of those journals.

So every day,

He wrote a meditation for himself.

We say meditation,

It's a comment on something that he's come to an understanding about,

A conclusion that he's made for the benefit of his existence.

And every day,

He wrote one of those,

And it's been published as this book.

You see,

All of these journals have been published as this book.

And many of the messages that he made,

For example,

Do not attach your self-esteem to the outcome of something.

Attach your self-esteem only to what you can control.

So for example,

You know,

They really speak to me.

For example,

If I am shooting a bow and arrow at a target,

I have control of how I hold the bow,

But my mastery of the bow and arrow,

How effective my materials are,

How strong is the arrow,

How well made is the bow,

How much rest I've had,

How much focus I have,

How much training I've had.

Once that bow leaves the arrow,

I have no control over what happens to the arrow.

I have no control over the wind.

I have no control over how the target is set and whether the bow bounces off it or not.

So at that point,

Where I've done my work,

I've studied the skill,

The art of something,

And I can say I have given it everything I've got,

I let the arrow go and it's gone.

To relate that to my life,

I write.

I write constantly,

Every day,

For hours and hours and hours.

Now,

I submit publications,

I submit essays,

I submit audio plays most recently,

For example,

To the BBC,

And once I know I've done everything I can,

I just let it go.

Why?

Because I have no control over their agenda,

Who's reading it,

The preconceptions they have,

What they're looking for,

What mood they're in.

I have no control.

So once I know I've done that,

I send it and I move on,

And I very rarely,

If ever,

Go back and re-read.

Once I've edited,

Once I've spent those months,

In the case of Bleffern,

Which are years on something,

That's it,

It's gone,

Done.

I can't control how it is accepted,

But I know that that is something I can be at peace with.

And this is the philosophy of Stoicism,

And this is one of his meditations,

The Power of Choice,

Which we'll be talking about next week.

Okay,

Same with relationships.

You're in a situation,

You meet someone,

You fall for them,

And you think,

Right,

Well,

I don't know whether they've fallen for me.

What can I do?

What you can do is be the best version of yourself.

Come to that relationship when you are ready.

Be the best you can be.

Make yourself likeable.

How do you do that?

By liking yourself.

By investing in your own inner support network,

Your own advice yourself,

Train yourself to be a great version of who you can be.

And then what will be,

Will be.

You have no control at all over whether that's accepted or not.

But you can control how you feel about yourself.

So,

Again,

Just to go back,

Stoicism is something that is traditionally associated with the male sphere,

A masculine,

Kind of almost,

To a degree,

A toxic masculine philosophy that says,

Just put up and shut up.

But this is the 21st century,

And there have been,

As with Jane Austen,

As with the Blue Stocking Group,

Proponents of it,

Um,

People practicing it in history that happen to be female.

And,

Um,

I'm hoping that you will join me in practicing it as women,

If there are any men here.

You too.

We're just human.

Yes,

So I'm just going to look at the comments now.

Jo,

The Blue Stocking Group sound interesting and quite forward-thinking.

Yes.

Yes,

It can be judged quite differently today,

And Marianne's,

What you've said is how Marianne's emotional state can be judged quite differently today.

And I think this is why this is relevant for the 21st century,

Because in social media you've got this big surge towards,

I've got to just let it all out.

I've got to say what I think,

And I need to be heard,

And everyone needs to be heard,

And we need to really demonstrate that we are emotional beings,

Of course,

But there are ways of doing that.

And as with any pendulum,

It's completely swung the other way now,

And it's got a bit out of control.

So I'm here to,

You know,

Try and pull it back a bit.

The differences between the sisters are so cleverly written.

You've shown me how complex the character Eleanor is with her being stoic.

Another wonderful talk.

Thank you.

Well,

Thank you for listening,

As always.

This is a big topic,

And I've started by reflecting on others' works on this topic,

And I want to move on in the future to relating it to where we are in the 21st century,

Because I know a lot of people come onto lives seeking some words that relate to their own personal experience now.

And I think if we can start talking about that,

Relating to the literature we've read,

Talking about what other people,

Because the biggest influence should be from what other people have achieved,

And then understanding that we can go on to that,

And we can carry on flying the flag in our own way,

In our own lives every day.

So relating specifically to this stoicism to our everyday experience.

And together,

We can journal every day,

Be us following my course or not,

My future course,

We can journal every day,

We can learn from the stoics,

And we can take from these sessions what we will and leave the rest behind.

I'm a firm believer in that.

So this is guidance,

This is knowledge,

This is historic reference,

This space is attempting to educate ourselves in something which we can choose to embrace or not.

And that's what education is,

You're not always going to,

Just as when I read these novels,

You're not always going to like everything you read.

It doesn't mean you stop reading it.

Why?

Because that's where the lessons are,

And the things you don't like.

Very interesting to learn about stoicism,

Jo says,

Thank you.

I like the thought of not worrying about something after it's gone from you when you have no control over it.

Yes,

Marcus Aurelius,

Wonderful man.

And that's the idea.

Focusing on,

And I want to make very clear that I practice what I preach.

That's my teaching style,

I don't teach anything I don't believe in,

Wholeheartedly,

And practice.

So,

And it's not here,

But my journal is in this room,

And every day I wake up,

As did Marcus Aurelius,

And I write the next meditation for me.

It's a modern adaptation of lessons we are learning.

And that's what this space is about.

If you're on board,

I'm so glad to have you.

Keep listening.

If you can,

Share these lies with anyone you know on Insight Timer.

And I will stay here.