The Truth Is Transformation With Arielle Nóbile

Documentary filmmaker and storyteller Arielle Nóbile was forcibly hospitalized after a post-9/11 mental breakdown. We're speaking about the feeling of a loss of direction, the understandable fear of "going crazy," and the trauma that follows a national tragedy.

Transcript

So let's jump in right away, Whatever order you want to tell it in, However you want to lay it out there. Let's start with the loss story. So, You know, I saw your post on Facebook and it just triggered, I think that, I mean, To just sort of frame it, I feel like loss is something that we don't necessarily acknowledge much of our culture. And there's so many different kinds of losses. And in a sense, My loss story is a loss of, I would say a loss of innocence story, And it's sort of a loss of fantasy of a life that I thought I wanted in a certain sense. So I was living in New York. I had gone to school there. I had always wanted to be a movie star, Wanted to be an actress, Went to theater school. And I graduated in 2001 and moved back to Chicago and then 9-11 happened and it just like ripped my guts open, As it did for so many people. And my reaction was to move right back to New York. Like I literally moved back there about a month later and go to ground beer in the middle of the night and start filming like at three in the morning with a friend. Because I just needed to like, I felt this guilt that I hadn't been there. But this is not the loss story. This is a prelude to the loss story. I mean, That would be huge loss, But I was perfectly, I was very fortunate because I didn't lose anyone in 9-11 personally. I knew a lot of people in New York, But thank goodness they were all artists and not really Wall Street, You know, Or near Wall Street. So I spent the next year basically obsessively researching terrorism, War, Tyranny, Torture, Genocide, And just some very, Very dark, Dark themes. I am an empath. I am a highly sensitive person. I did not know that there was a word for that then. I just thought, You know, Sort of always told you're too sensitive or you're this and that, You know, That's probably why it was a good fit for me to be an actor because I can tune in and tap into emotions very easily. And this basically all, I was making a documentary, But it didn't lead to a documentary. It led me to a breakdown. And I found myself in my Brooklyn apartment looking near the river, Feeling like all of these people from the other side who had died in 9-11 were coming through my window. As crazy as that sounds, And telling me their stories. And I could not stop it and I couldn't sleep. And I, You know, Was, I don't even remember those days very clearly. It was like a couple of day period, But essentially I was put in the public Brooklyn hospital against my will by my mother and a couple of people. And that was just the most excruciatingly, Shameful, Awful turning point of my life. It wasn't, And it was one of those things where I ended up having to like, Prove that I wasn't crazy to like the art therapist to get myself out of there. But you know, It really put a break on everything. I mean, Literally we were supposed to be flying the next week to Argentina to start filming more for this documentary. We had gotten some equipment and some funding and it was like all set and then this happened. And I ended up instead moving back to my parents house, Like held between my legs and spending the next couple of the month pretty much crying, Sleeping late and crying and just feeling like I had just failed at everything that I ever set out to do. It's like, Yeah, The 22 year old failure. But that's how I felt because I was so ambitious and I was so sure that I was on this path and that this was an important story to tell. And so, Yes, That was my devastating loss, Or one of the losses in my life. Just the sort of loss, I guess it was sort of a loss of direction in a certain sense because you think you're going along one path and then life slips in and kicks your. . . Can I swear on this? I mean kicks your ass. Yeah, Absolutely. Like comes in and kicks your ass, You know, And you're just like, Well, I'm not going that way at all. And it was devastating. I was humiliated more than anything actually. And then on top of that, I was afraid that I was crazy because of what had happened. That's absolutely amazing. And from what it sounds like, It sounds like this national tragedy was a catalyst for you to uncover a truth. And then in that quest for truth, It like totally shattered your ideas of identity and direction and future and security and safety and all the things that come with a national tragedy, But also like a loss of home and a loss of using a hand gesture right now, I guess it's like a sure footing, Like stable footing. Yeah, Correct me if I'm wrong there, But that's the sense that I'm getting. And that's true. And I mean, It was sort of the ground opened up. It's like that ground opening up, Like you wish it would follow you. It didn't quite follow me, Kind of like fit me back up, But I wasn't sure anymore about anything. And I also felt like it really. . . I mean, I grew up in a very unconventional household. So it wasn't odd that I was interested in sort of questioning the powers that be and sort of the status quo and all of that. Wasn't that unusual actually? What was the breaking point I would say is that my sensitive nature. . . I'm someone who's like, I can't watch the news. I don't. I don't watch the news. I don't take in news that way. Like when something's happening in the world, I have people I love who tell me. And like I've learned from that experience, From that terrible experience, I've learned how I can take in tragedy in a healthy way for me. But I was too young at that point to realize what that sensitivity meant. And it doesn't mean that I'm not strong because I actually am an incredibly strong, Capable person, But that event and that loss of stability and baseline just. . . It rocked my world. And it was, Yes, It was. . . When you question your own. . . And I think we all go through, Maybe, Maybe not. I think we all question our sanity at some point. We sort of joke about, Am I crazy? But when you're actually like. . . When that's actually like someone on the outside is saying that, It really, Really fucks with you. I mean, They basically. . . I was an actor. So I walked into that emergency room and I was pissed that they were putting me in the hospital. And I remember thinking, I'm gonna put on a show. And I played crazy, Bigger than you can imagine. I just went for it. And they ended up restraining me and shoving a needle into my arm and knocking me out for a couple of days. And it was like a bad public Brooklyn hospital. It was not cushy at all. I feel like I was like. . . I can sort of remember the first couple of days sort of in and out, Drooling and wearing a hospital gown and wandering around in this weird holding room. It was bad. And I think that it. . . They told my family that I was probably schizophrenic or bipolar. That was how I presented in the emergency room. Now, It was that kind of hospital where they didn't even really. . . I don't even remember seeing a therapist. You know what I mean? They just saw how I was acting and was like, Oh, She's probably. . . This is her diagnosis. And hearing those words, That had a huge impact on not only how I saw myself, But how my family saw me and how I saw myself honestly for. . . How I worried about myself for years after that. So it was a great loss of identity and safety, Not just world safety, But safety in one's knowledge that you can trust your own mind. Yeah. And who am I? What am I? And in terms of people slapping labels on you, And then that results in your family and friends and other people surrounding you possibly perceiving you in a different way. So the next question I have is kind of related to the midpoint between the actual loss and the start of awakening. So in kind of like that black darkness period, What was it like to move back in with your parents to have to try and prove that you weren't crazy? And then to kind of wrangle with, I mean, Not even traveling to Argentina the next week to not fulfill all these plans that you had inflated into the future? I mean, It was, Again, It was devastating. But I was also in a frantic state of denial, I would say, Just like survival denial. I really thought, I think in my head, Well, I'll go home for a little while and then I'll be back in New York in no time. And I never went back to live in New York. I did go back and visit, Obviously, Many times. It's that song, The New York, New York, You can make it here, You can make it anywhere. Literally it's only in the past couple of years that that stopped running through my head as proof that I failed. That myth of success in New York as some sort of badge of honor. And I'm making a film, This documentary project has continued or resurfaced and I'm making a film about this whole thing. It's interesting because I look at footage of myself. Basically, I was in the hospital in November, My birthday is in late November and I went home for Thanksgiving. So it didn't even feel that weird that I would be home then. And there's footage of me at Thanksgiving and I'm like, I don't, I remember being super devastated and humiliated, But I don't seem that way on video. I seem kind of comforted to be home. So it's this strange mixture of, I was still so young and I think there was a lot of anger and culpability pointed outwards, Like you guys did this to me. I think there was also a sense of being held and like, Gosh, It's hard to live in New York. I was hustling. I was working many jobs and trying to keep myself alive there. And it was something of a relief to come back home on some level and to sort of be forced into it. I probably never would have admitted I needed help in any way. So I look back and think it wasn't as bad as it felt, But I did. I felt like my mom didn't trust me. She was kind of scared of me. I was highly medicated, Which in my family, I didn't even take antibiotics really as a kid. So to suddenly be on these antipsychotic medications was pretty horrible. I remember one medication I was on, I had a couple of friends come over and we were sort of sitting in my mom's living room. I was shooting the breeze and I'm not a small talk kind of person. So that's like not my thing to do anyway. I remember feeling so much rage. Like I wanted to literally like throw something and I could not express anything. I can't explain it. I felt like I was trapped inside of my own, Like my soul was trapped. And that was just awful, Awful. And thank goodness I soon got off the medication. Thanks to my father who supported that. But I mean, I was a weepy cry. I felt sorry for myself. I felt like a failure. I felt like I'd let everyone down. And I just felt like I was sort of went into hiding. And it was winter, It was perfect. It was snowy. It was Chicago. It was a horrible cold winter. And I basically like cried, Slept, Smoked cigarettes and like filmed myself, Which I know sounds weird, But that's like the mode I was in at that stage of my life. I was using the camera and this was like way before. This was in 2002. So this is like way before people did this all the time. Like the camera was like my like touchstone. It was like my outlet. If I felt lonely, Like I put my little camcorder on and started talking to it and I felt like someone was listening, Even though no one was listening. And I know that makes me, Does make me sound slightly crazy, But now it's so normal. I was just in the wrong generation. Right, And doing video diaries is like a really, Video diaries and like the Snapchatting and Instagram stories and Facebook live is, Is, It's everywhere now. And doing chronology of your story or this is where I am today is just a huge idea that permeates our culture. But yeah, Back in 2002, It's like she's got a camcorder and she's talking to herself. What's she doing? I was ahead of myself. And yeah, I love that. And you said that you used filming as kind of an outlet to get, I want to say to get some of your soul out then when it felt like your soul was trapped in your body. Was that the first kind of glimpse you got into maybe my life won't be this way permanently or what's the first catalyst that brought you back into the world again? Was it expressing yourself through film or was it through another medium or a book or a practice or that question? And I love that you just use that terminology and that's actually what the film is going to be called into the world because that's exactly like, It feels like I was in this stage of life where you're going out into the world, Right? Post college. And then I had this setback and then I had to figure out how do I go back into the world as this new person with this, You know, Trauma essentially that has just happened in my life. So, You know, It's hard to say, I don't pinpoint the film. The filming of myself was so part of the before the breakdown and the after that I don't look at that as the catalyst. I have wonderful friends and one of them in particular who I've been friends with since grade school and we're still friends. She basically invited me to, Well I want to say two things. So she invited me to keep writing workshops with her at the Howard Community Center on the north side of Chicago, Which is a rough, You know, Lower income neighborhood. And it was for women only and it was just this sort of opportunity to get out of the house and be, You know, Giving in some way, Not sort of caught up in my own wounding. So that was like, I think, So this was probably in February of 2003. So I'd been like in my house for like two months. I mean, I may be exaggerating. I may have gone out. It was all a blur of sadness and crying. So and I'm a very extroverted person in some ways. So I'm sure I did have more social interaction than I'm thinking, But I felt so awful. But this time I went to this community center and a lot happened because of that. I met the woman who introduced me to my husband, Which is kind of amazing. Like the first time I leave my house, That's what happens. And I've been married for almost 14 years. And then I also have this incredible, I can still, I've taught a lot of different things over the years, And I just had this vivid memory of that class in particular and leading them through some, Like a walk through your life exercise where you literally just walk in a, Like walk through the room. And I led them through sort of remembering from childhood to the present. And watching them do that and then the writing that came out of it was so powerful for me to be facilitating and it helped me remember that I have some gifts that I can help people too. And that my, You know, Basically the human, That we're the human condition, That we all have suffering, We're all struggling in a way how grateful and blessed I am. Like I had this thing happen and I have so many people to hold me and like a lot of people don't. So there was a lot of just beauty in coming out of my house, Kind of coming back into the world and feeling like, Okay, I have a purpose here. I'm not, My purpose is not to sit in my chair and silence and feel sorry for myself. Like that's not why I'm alive. And that was beautiful. And then the second part I wanted to say was there is, Like at the end, If you watch the trailer for my film, The last part of it is me filming myself saying, I'm smoking a cigarette and I'm out on the back porch and I'm like saying over and over, I'm making a documentary and making a documentary and making a documentary. And it was like an affirmation I needed to remember, Like, This is not over. Like I still, I will come back from this. Like this is not the end of the story. I'm not going to go and like dig myself a hole and just like live small now. That's just not who I am. After that time, Like around that time, I think I stopped turning the camera on myself and I turned the camera to other people for the next 10 plus years and have just spent those years really like being curious about other people and learn and their experiences and what makes life work. I mean, I've always been a person that's just speaking and questioning and curious. And I remember what I did. I think my parents ended up divorced, But that's another story. When they had their 30th anniversary, I remember going home to visit them. This was before all this happened and just literally saying to them, Like, How do you do life? What, Like, How do you do it? Because like, It felt so mysterious. Like how do you, How can, I know there's like a word for it now, Right? People say like adulting, But like, Again, There was none of this then. Like we just like were expected. I feel like my generation was in this, I don't know how old you are, But like we were in this like weird in between period where people still have the illusion, Like you could just like get a job and have a pension and all that. And 9-11 really changed the entire paradigm for our world. And I feel like the ground was shaken under all of us. So that included like the industries that we always relied on to be sort of safety. So yeah, I was always wondering like, How do you do life? Like what is life about? And so I spent the next years like asking other people that, And it's only been in the past like year-ish, But like only in spurts because I'm so, It still feels so vulnerable to me to like come back to pointing the camera at myself and, And starting to like reflect on this journey myself more. Yes. There's something, I believe it was in one of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' books about time because everybody perceives these timelines for grief. Like you should be over it in a year or in six months you can start dating again. Like people like to put a lot of blocks or time markers on grief. And she's like, I don't really want to put any timelines on grief other than to say the farther you get out from your loss in terms of years, The more life experience you've had to incorporate when you look back at it. That just to me meant that you will have experienced more losses, But conversely have experienced more joys and met other people like the ones in this class that you took who cannot just reassure you but can show you through their own lives that, That you have not, You have not been alone this whole time. You've not been alone. And that's, That's really beautiful to me. I'm actually really curious, What did your, What did your parents say when you asked them how to life? What was their answer to that question? I mean, I remember we were like an Indian restaurant and I just, I ended up writing a song about it actually, Life Force and Learning to Forgive. Like like you just, Yeah. I asked the lyrics I wrote where I asked you what it means to live life force and learning to forgive. Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. I've got chills right now. That's so, Oh my gosh. That's so beautiful. So yeah, That's another one of those like moments that's just really vivid in my memory. And then I think, So I also take things to extremes. Anyone who knows me probably knows that. And so I, In what you're, Sort of relate to what you're talking about, My next year, The next year after my law, My breakdown, I went to Argentina. Like I was, I had planned with a very different purpose because I, It's a long story, But I had originally been going to film something entirely differently, But I ended up going there and filming a lot of Mothers of the Disappeared. I don't know how much you know about Argentina, But there was a terrible military dictatorship from 1976 to 1983 and over 30, 000. Many innocent people were kidnapped, Tortured and killed. And the Mothers of the Disappeared have had been protesting ever since to know what happened to their children essentially. And they're still protesting and it's amazing. It's amazing like resiliency. And I went and interviewed them as I think I thought I was doing it for different reasons than I realized now I was doing it for, As is often the case, But I think it was like the most extreme pain I could imagine someone suffering. Like not only is your kid probably dead, But like you never really know what happened to them and you know it was probably horrible. Right? Like they were probably, They probably suffered a lot. They were treated, They were tortured and you never got to see them again. So that's just like, Especially now that I'm a mother, Like I can't imagine a worse thing. And to talk to these women and to just see the like the spark in them and how it didn't kill them and not only that, How it gave them in the sense, A lot of these women, It gave them a purpose to continue the fight of their children, But also just to continue to fight for their own like souls and life and that spark of humanity and for what's right. So it was this huge, Beautiful learning experience for me that ultimately, Again, It'll be somehow incorporated into this film, But I could never figure out a way to say something new about all of that. But gosh, Did it serve my learning as a human in terms of what we're capable of and how resilient we are. And I think, You know, There's a lot of ambiguous loss there, Right? You can't even have a ceremony. There's no, You know, They, A lot of these women agree that they would never say that their children were dead because they have no bones to bury. For that story. Yeah. There's well, There, And there's no bones to a story either. That's interesting. They said, You said no bones to bury. And I said, No bones for a story. So even having, Wow, These, These physical and these like idea truths about the things that we lose are really important to us. I'm interested also, There's a quote going around the internet that says, When something bad in your life happens, Just yell plot twist and move on. As if you're living a book or living a story. And that kind of reminds me of your film and your work and what you do. But it seems like a lot of the work that you do in your belonging in Boulder and belonging in the USA is a lot about belonging and kind of searching for the truth about where we fit in. And I wanted to know what your truths are surrounding, Not just your loss, But like your losses role in your entire life and your story right now. What do you believe to be true about it? Hmm. That's a great question. I mean, I feel like as much as like, And that's why it's an interesting thing to call it a loss even because I can't see it as a loss, But actually it's been the sort of catalyst for everything. Right. I mean, Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to be a movie star, But I feel like I've done a lot of really awesome things aside from could I have ever even been a movie star? I don't know. But like in pursuing these bigger questions that has created so much meaning in my life. And I don't know if I would have gone about that in the same way. And I think it's led to an openness and an empathy that until I was ready. I mean, This is something, This story is something that I would not even talk to. Like the woman I was just talking to before I talked to you and the friend of mine who's making the Into the World film with me, Who was my roommate at the time, I've known since I was five, I wouldn't even talk to them about this until last year. And I'm someone who talks about everything very openly and has no shame, Let's say. I love the Ani DiFranco song Shameless. That was like my mantra until that experience. And then that happened and I have carried so much shame around because of it, Because I thought if people know this about me, And this is what I think is true for everyone. Like everyone is carrying around something like if people knew this about me, They would fill in the blank, Think I was crazy, Not want to know me anymore, Judge me, Whatever it is. Like this experience was my that, Where I was just like, I can't let anyone into this secret. So besides the people who already knew about it, At the time it happened, Friends that I made years after, I told very few. And I told them with trepidation and then never talked about it again. It was not something I was very comfortable with until I realized it was the thing that was most holding me back and keeping me small. It was like that I'm not an AA, But I know the sort of AA thing, You're only as sick as your secrets, Like it was my secret. It was my thing that I just didn't want anyone to know. So I feel like having this new opportunity to realize, Oh my gosh, The thing that, The art I thought I was making back then is not at all what I was making. I needed all this perspective and time to be able to look back and say, Wow, This is what I'm making. This is what this is about. Part of that is the journey of revisiting the past and healing some of that, Cleaning it up. I mean, I'm still in a place where I need to talk to my mom about that experience and I need to clear up the energy there. But it's given me a gift in so many ways of when I interview people who have been through terrible loss, Even though I don't share that with them, The fact that that happened to me has just given me so much insight into human condition, Human pain, What it means to sort of live with duality. Because I think anyone who knows me would somewhat be surprised that that happened to me. It's not something I wear on my sleeve. And it's also just not something that I've let define me in a certain way. And yet on the other side, It's totally defined me, But just in a secret way. I think that the truth that you're finding and the truth that I have found and the truth that a lot of people who have lost various things over the course of their lives are finding is that the truth is transformation. Ultimately that's what we learn from the things that we do. We don't learn these little like platitudes that people throw at us, Like everything happens for a reason and all in good time and you know, Who hasn't needed another angel or like they're up there, Whatever, Blah, Blah, Blah. Your darkest hour is only 16 minutes, Blah, Blah, Blah. Right. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. But the truth is me, Inevitability of loss seems to be from what I can observe and the people I talk to is that things transform and change, Whether that's your perspective, Whether that's, You know, What your family looks like, Whether that's, You know, The field of study you decide to go into or what your art looks like or, Or, Or anything like that. And it's just really, It's really cool and fascinating to hear that represented in your story. And I guess the last thing I want to touch on with you is if you have advice or encouragement or like pieces of, Of wisdom to offer anybody who is going through a similar situation right now. I think, I guess because there's so many forms of loss, Right. And I think, Again, We think of it often as like death, But there's a lot of deaths in our lives that aren't actual physical death. Like my loss was a death of a self that I thought mattered and in a sense of huge depth of like an E huge part of my ego. Not that I've lost my ego completely, Believe me. But I think that like to let yourself cry, Tears are healing. I am not a natural crier. I used to always say, I hate crying. I don't hate crying anymore. I think I know it's liquid healing. To feel what you're feeling, Because if you don't, It'll be there for you, Right on the other side, Like briefly, That's a truism, But it's true. And also to be patient about it, Because you can't rush transformation. You can't rush awareness. Like there is such thing, I believe as divine timing, No matter what you believe divinity is, But like the universe or whatever, You can't just, You don't get to control it all. I couldn't be making this film at any other point than right now. I couldn't be making a TV series, Web series at any other point, But right now, Like there is a timing that is bigger than all of us. And that when you're going through big changes and big loss and what feels, I think the word loss, I actually like would question, Like, I know that sort of the premise of your show, This idea of loss, But like, I don't think of much as a loss. I mean, In the moment it might feel that way, But ultimately is it? Yeah. And that's an idea that's stuck up in my head too, Is other than maybe like a physical home or a physical house or like that job that I had, Or like what did I actually lose? As you go through the process of coming back and kind of renegotiating what your life looks like, That's a really beautiful question to ask is what did I really lose? The people, The pieces, The sort of the tangible that I need is still with me. And I also am just someone who makes it makes a point of learning from things, Even when the lessons are hard. I think that helps when you're trying to come back from something that seems like you can never come back from. Right. Yeah, I kind of hear you on that. The last question I want to ask you, I'd love for you to say in your own words, What projects you're working on right now, Where people can find you on social media, Where they can view the trailer for the documentary about not just your breakdown, But other projects that you're working on right now as well. Thank you. Yes. The sort of last story you heard the most about, You can find more about that at intotheworldthefilm. Com. There's a trailer there. There's some info. That project is in certain ways, I'm taking it very slowly, So it's taking a little bit of a backseat right now to this web series that I'm producing, Creating called belonging in the USA, Stories from our neighbors. And that you can find it belongingintheusa. Com. There's also a Facebook page, Belonging in the USA, And a Facebook group, Belonging in the USA, Which is where we're going to create a safe space for people to share these stories about belonging and fitting in, And also a place to be sympathetic with people who we may think we don't have anything in common with. And then I run a business also called Legacy Connections Films, And that's legacyconnectionsfilms. Com. That's lovely. I just absolutely love that. Well, Cool. Thank you so much for sharing everything, Your story, Where people can reach you, And then just the process of coming back and what that felt like and the ideas and things that ran through your head. It's been lovely chatting with you today. Thank you so much, Shelby. It's been wonderful. And I am excited to follow you and hear all about the rest of the people that will be on. It'll be a great podcast, I'm sure. See you soon.