149 Mac Lethal: Kali & Shiva, Polarized Relationship

Mac Lethal is a rapper, YouTuber, author, and recent Hindu convert (only partially kidding). We connected last month over an article I wrote regarding masculine-feminine dynamics, specifically on how to handle fiery women. We speak about how to regain the passion in a sexless marriage, why men are like swimming pools (not cups), and practical spirituality for the lifelong atheist.

Transcript

All right,

Mr.

Lethal,

Glad to be able to speak to you.

Likewise,

My friend.

Thank you for having me on your show.

I'm a fan of it and of you,

And I appreciate this for sure.

Thanks.

Yeah,

So we got connected kind of randomly through an article I wrote some years ago on Kali.

Seems like you might be a recent Hindu convert.

I mean,

Could you share what happened on your end?

Yeah,

So one of the most bizarre couple of months of my life,

As you said,

You wrote this brilliant article about Kali and Shiva and being a parable for challenging women.

And just to kind of illuminate that my wife and I have had a very difficult past three years.

And we have gone to therapy,

Have tried extensively to fix our marriage and our connection with each other.

And we have made progress,

But we're still kind of missing a couple of the final key ingredients.

And one night after we took a road trip where we listened to the Sad Guru Joe Rogan episode,

We came home and were laying in bed and my wife had purchased one of Sad Guru's books and was reading it.

And in the book,

He talks about a statue with Shiva in it.

I'm not even sure which statue it was because it wasn't the one with Kali.

It wasn't the image of Kali standing on Shiva,

But she talked about that.

And I Googled it to try to find an image of what it looked like.

And I just wanted to see it.

And what ended up popping up was your article first.

It was the first result of any Google search result that existed on the internet.

Whatever I typed in,

Whatever the combination of words I typed in,

Your article was the first result.

And I clicked it.

And I was very unfamiliar with Kali.

I think I had maybe heard of her like one time,

Maybe in some sort of feminist Instagram post or something like that,

But I knew nothing about her.

And I sat next to my wife in bed and I read your article and it completely blew my mind and completely changed my life.

Insofar as I am convinced that you wrote that article for me,

But that's how the ego works as you know.

So,

But I'm,

I am convinced that that was all lined up by the universe for me.

And it's the power of coincidence and,

But it's such a brilliant article and I sent it to my sister.

I sent it to multiple men in my life.

I've sent it to multiple women in my life and I've,

It's completely changed my life and your understanding and my wife echoes this exact sentiment,

Your understanding of the male female relationship,

The masculine feminine polarity in that relationship or in a relationship in general in that article is so brilliant and so perfect.

And that started,

We started seeing progress.

I did a session with you,

Which you were kind enough to do for me.

And it was amazing.

And my wife and I started seeing real results.

And in that article,

If just in case people haven't,

I don't know if you're going to talk about it,

But if I can just touch on it for a second in the article,

The basic point to take away is there's this Hindu depiction of Kali standing on Shiva and Shiva's God Kali is her consort.

She is the feminine or one of the avatars of Durga.

She popped out of Durga's head in the mythology.

It's a,

I won't get into Hindu mythology,

But to,

To break down the image Kali is standing on Shiva with her tongue out.

She had just gone through a battlefield and started eating the good guys and the bad guys,

Digesting them on this crazed lunacy,

Bloodlust and started being very destructive.

So her husband Kali laid down and,

Or her husband Shiva,

Excuse me,

Laid down and Kali stood on him,

Getting ready to kill him and eat him.

But as you talk about in the article,

She was a God Kali's not going to kill Shiva.

It's her husband and he's a God.

You can't kill the God of destruction.

I mean,

He's one of the triumvirate of Hindu gods.

And the article just talks about that as a parable for how husbands,

Boyfriends need to elevate their station with the woman in their life by allowing her to experience the dark,

Chaotic,

Feminine energy that she feels and not trying to contain it,

Not trying to fight it,

Not trying to mansplain against it,

Not trying to hide from it.

And it was a really,

Really brilliant article that I needed to see because it completely changed the chemistry between my wife and I and the way that I approach that energy,

The feminine energy in my wife.

I just let it go unrestrained when she's angry,

When she's sad,

When she's quote unquote,

Nagging,

Pissed off,

Whatever it is.

I don't run.

I don't cower.

I don't try to stop it.

I just witnessed it.

I just let it play out.

And it has completely reignited our intimacy,

Our romantic life.

And then we were so into it that we decided to look into Hinduism as a faith and a practice.

I've been atheist for 20 years.

I was raised Christian.

I left Christianity 20 years ago after my mother passed away,

Not out of anger or anything,

But I just didn't buy into the idea that some conscious God ended her life and that she was in paradise somewhere like the Christian version of heaven.

I just didn't ascribe to the kind of concept of religion anymore.

It just didn't make sense.

And I felt very comfortable being an atheist.

And I would say my atheism got stronger and stronger every year and completely out of nowhere.

Kali enters my life and I was so kind of thankful.

And there was so much meaning that I placed into this,

That I started doing my own research on her and on Hinduism.

And I tried praying to her several times and we even went to Hindu temple,

Which we still go to now.

And my wife had her own experience with a different deity,

Which is Ganesh.

He's the elephant head deity in Hinduism and had her own just series of experiences like I did with Kali.

And we have the night,

You know,

I wouldn't say we've converted to Hinduism because that's kind of what you would call it,

I guess,

In a Western sense.

But the thing about Hinduism is it's not a really a religion.

It's more or less a way of life and then B it's a spectrum.

So I still have atheism inside of me and ideas where I'm not sure I fully ascribe to this or that various things,

But it has absolutely increased my spirituality.

And I've talked to the priest at the Hindu temple and said,

Look,

This is a customizable faith.

This is the thing that you,

This is about you and what you want it to be and your very versions of it.

There's no right or wrong way of conducting or practicing Hinduism.

And you don't have to believe in all the mythology.

You can,

You know,

A lot of people get confused because there's millions of gods,

But what they don't realize is all of those gods basically represent the same God.

And it's just this divine incomprehensible energy that is called Brahman.

And it's the,

Just the,

The idea that the universe is one and that our energy is all connected.

And it's very sciency and has a lot of things that I found kind of lined up with what I was already feeling.

So I'm not necessarily a hundred percent a Hindu convert,

But we are going to temple.

I do pray to Kali.

We do have a much a Mondier in our living room with idols and we burn incense and ring the prayer bell and do these things.

And I've found that it's given us structure,

Direction a lot of positive feedback and energy.

And I would say that my wife,

Me and both of my kids are happier and feel like we're in a safer,

Better place than we've ever been.

And it all started with your article.

Wow.

Yeah.

It blows my mind that something I wrote like three or four or five years ago,

Basically converted a Kansas city rapper to Hinduism like that,

That just,

That sentence is so ridiculous.

Yes.

Yes.

And to be clear,

It's ridiculous to me too.

Like it's not a thing where I was sitting there going,

You know,

I want to find a religion.

Like if you would have told me,

Ask me five minutes before I read your article,

Like,

Hey,

How would you feel about me showing you something that's not only going to save your marriage and family,

But going to end up converting you to Hinduism?

I would have bet every single dollar I have and will make for the rest of my life that that wouldn't have happened.

And I would have been wrong.

I mean,

It is absolutely batshit crazy to me too,

But I like am proudly putting this out in the universe and in the world and representing my truth because it's the truth.

It's what happened.

And I'm not going to fight against it and pretend that it's not real because it is real.

Yeah.

And I think the important thing is like,

It's not that you're throwing away rationality or atheism.

It's like,

There are things about reality that are beyond what we can explain and to deny them completely kind of leaves people like a little bit lost,

I think.

And even if we can't like find the right,

You know,

Maybe Hinduism is just a,

Not to say that Hinduism is accurate,

But it's a set of symbols that can connect us to things that make us feel connected again.

You know,

Like as opposed,

I mean,

That's kind of like why addiction programs all focus on believing in a higher power or something.

Right.

And it just so happens that the Hindu symbols resonate with you.

It connects us to this thing that makes your relationship and family happy better.

Like it doesn't really matter whether it's real or not in quotes.

Right.

Yes.

And the thing that I like about Hinduism is it doesn't necessarily ever claim to be real and it doesn't claim that other things aren't real.

And it's this very poetic kind of science-based mystical way of living.

And they never tell you there's a wrong way of doing it.

You're never going to find like you would in a Western church.

Somebody say,

Like if you go into a Christian church and you say,

I'm about 40% Christian,

60% atheist,

They tell you you're doing it wrong.

They'd say,

No,

There's only one true God.

There's only one way to approach life and religion.

And that is with Jesus and God.

And they would say that there's no 40%,

You're either in or you're out.

In Hinduism,

You could be 0.

0001% in and they will consider you a practicing Hindu.

And they will say like,

Look,

That's,

That is the nature of what we're doing.

And it's so abstract and customizable and kind of malleable and it fits to your definition and your needs.

And that's what I love about it.

It's unlike any other religion in that way.

And what you said is absolutely right.

I mean,

It's symbolism.

It's kind of surrender to a higher power,

To idols that represent that higher power.

And I still have tons of questions and I'm still not 100%,

Not even nearly 100% sold on the idea that it's real.

And some of the mythology seems a little hokey to me,

But I do love the idea of the energy being recycled,

Of the matter that we're all made up of being connected.

And I do believe there are divine energies and feminine energies and masculine energies.

I think that those are real things.

And I've listened to a lot of Alan Watts on the topic and it's just something that I'm finding is very resonant in my life right now.

So absolutely agree with everything you just said.

So with Kali specifically,

Is it,

Is the appeal to you,

The fact that maybe in the past you haven't dealt with like a woman's dark side?

Well,

I guess that way,

Is that why she's your matron and saints?

That's a part of it.

That's a fantastic question.

That's a part of it.

I also,

You know,

Kali,

If you ask anybody,

Any Hindu priest or any practicing Hindu about Kali,

They will tell you that look like the way that the nature of Kali is violent and it's a little brutal and unsettling.

And oftentimes her lessons are rough and they're not things like there are other deities that you can pray to like Lakshmi,

Who is the goddess of wealth and fortune and good health or like other,

You know,

Hanuman,

The monkey headed God where it's about wisdom and growing and or Saraswati learning.

And there's not everybody is like Kali.

Kali is the most extreme version of blackness,

Of darkness,

Of death,

Of destruction.

And that has an appeal to me because I've always been very extreme in the way I do things.

And I feel like tough love and the kind of just edginess that she has is appealing.

And the thing I like about her is that blood,

War,

Death,

Destruction,

Chaos,

Terror,

The dark side,

But she's also the mother of all living things.

So it's everything about a woman's dark side embodied in one.

But then she's also mom.

And I think that that's a really wonderful idea.

I lost my mother when I was 23,

I'm 40 now.

So not only do I feel like it kind of is replacing or not replacing,

That's kind of a shitty way to describe it,

But it just feels like I have a mother back in my life.

And I definitely do think that there's what you said originally makes sense,

That there's also something about it anchoring me into myself,

Where I'm able to handle and tolerate and understand and be present and even appreciate and find the beauty in a woman's darker energy.

Because I think a lot of men are terrified of that or think that if a woman's dark side is present,

That they need to try to squash it or quiet it.

And that couldn't be further from the truth.

In fact,

As you said in your article so eloquently,

It's the exact,

You need to let it play out.

And if you do that,

Nothing but great things will happen for you in that relationship.

So yeah,

I mean,

There's a lot of different reasons,

But she seems to be the one that keeps drawing me in.

And I just,

I appreciate she's a bad,

Wicked bitch.

And I just love that idea.

I love the idea of surrendering to somebody that's such a bad motherfucker.

And I just,

I dig it.

I dig her a lot.

There's a bunch of other ones that I think are great,

But she seems to be the one that I,

It's just,

She's my like ride or die.

And I feel like I feel safe with her in my life for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel similarly.

I mean,

Just being attracted to the dark side,

But it's also like,

Like you said,

Like the qualities that really intrigue most men about most women are these kinds of inconvenient qualities at times.

And I remember even like for years before I wrote that article,

I had seen this image a lot.

I mean,

Like I wrote in the article,

Like feminists really liked the idea of Kali because it's like the part of femininity that's often shamed by society.

But then I would often see this image of like Kali trampling Shiva kind of in the context of like,

Oh,

Women are going to conquer men,

Which like,

I mean,

It's like,

There's,

There's gotta be a different interpretation.

Like there's no way that the Hindus thought that this was like what,

You know,

Relationships should be or something.

And then,

Yeah.

And then,

Yeah,

It came to the conclusion that you mentioned if like,

Oh yeah,

Well,

He's a God,

He's not actually dying.

Right.

We forgot,

You know,

So this is him,

You know,

Being cool and unaffected when his woman is upset.

Right.

Which is a simple thing.

And not only that man,

But it checks out like with the Hindu mythology is,

Is that's what happens.

I mean,

We're talking about the God of destruction.

I mean,

The motherfucker is like one of the back,

Like he's certified gangster.

You're not killing Shiva.

Like,

And neither Kali isn't going to kill Shiva either.

Like that that's,

That's bade to her.

So it really was such a beautiful metaphor that you painted and it represents such an important ingredient in life for men where it's like,

Yo,

Like let her play this out.

Let this dark,

Chaotic kind of terrorist energy that she has in her exist.

She needs it to,

And a big term that I've learned from you and that I,

That is one of my main things that I feel,

Um,

You talk about it and almost all of your material when it,

When you talk about relationships,

Your YouTube videos,

Your podcast,

Things,

Just you and me talking one on one.

But a big thing about it is,

Is safety and Kali feeling safe enough to trample Shiva after annihilating a battlefield of soldiers and digesting them and eating them blood fucking dripping down her face with a necklace of human skulls.

And she stands on her husband and he,

She,

She,

She knows that she's safe to do that because Shiva,

Shiva isn't like some little bitch.

I mean,

We're talking about one of the most important deity in the entire faith.

Like you said,

It's,

And it's like a woman doesn't think that her husband is cowering to her when he witnesses her dark energy.

And I think it's a really important parable and I'm glad that you,

You sought to find meaning in it because it's changed my life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And unfortunately I think especially in this generation,

A lot of young men especially are being raised to think that cowering is being a good man.

And that's also not true,

Right?

Like she wants strength,

Otherwise she's going to go crazier.

Yes.

And the other thing,

And I mentioned this in my,

One of my messages to you,

Which your listeners haven't heard or seen,

But I will say that a thing you've talked about in other episodes of your show,

That this kind of turned me on to the idea of nice guy syndrome and what often happens with men in relationships with women,

Especially with that,

Like kind of dark twisted energy is they try to figure out a way to soothe it or stop it or kind of muffle it with being nice and giving to get and all of those things.

And this is something that I expelled from my life as well,

Because of all of this is just like,

Look,

Like you're safe to be your fucking self in this relationship with me and go to all those dark,

Violent,

Collie-like places,

But know that there are boundaries and I will tolerate what I can tolerate and I will let you know when I'm not going to tolerate it.

And I'm not going to do anything other than just live my truth with you in real time,

One-on-one.

And it's made,

Like just soaked my wife's pussy again.

I mean,

It's just like,

And I'm just telling you,

It's just,

We've been trying to find answers.

By the way,

She told me to personally thank you.

She was trying to find your Instagram page the other day because she wanted to say hello and thank you for everything.

But I told her you don't have one.

So she said,

Just mention it to you when I talk to you.

So she wanted to thank you for all the great work you're doing for the world.

I appreciate it for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've been on this Instagram hard fast for almost a year.

I'm thinking about getting back on because a lot of people have been like,

Where's your Instagram?

Yeah.

Anyways,

It was interesting what you said about safety because actually,

So my and my wife's personal religion is every full moon,

We kind of take the day off from everything and just like spend time with each other.

And that was yesterday.

And we were talking about our relationship because even though I can write all these things,

I don't do it perfectly still.

And I'm working on the same thing that you mentioned,

Like really being truthful,

Even if it's uncomfortable,

Because of course,

We all have tendencies to,

I guess,

Avoid discomfort at times.

And the key words that she and I came down to between us are like,

Safety,

Connection and truth.

Right?

Like when I've not mentioned something to her because I thought it would make her upset,

Which I'm not proud of doing,

But I've done at times,

It just makes her more crazy.

It actually creates the thing that I'm trying to avoid.

And the more,

Yeah,

Anyway,

It goes back and forth,

But it's really just coming down to exactly what you said,

Like being 100% truthful and staying connected through the consequences.

Yes.

Authenticity.

And it's okay.

One of the other things that,

Because what you said,

There always seems to be mistakes and there seems to be missteps and you're going to say something that like,

Oh shit,

I just made it worse.

Or you're going to go too far,

Over explain,

Whatever it is.

It's okay if it's messy,

It's never going to be perfect.

And I know that that's a really cliche kind of approach toward life,

But I think a lot of men need to hear that when they're trying to learn how to set boundaries and get rid of nice guy syndrome and be authentic with the woman in their lives.

It's very upsetting,

Especially for men when we try to,

You know,

Perform at a high level when we don't do things perfectly,

It can be very easy to want to be really hard on ourselves.

And I have moments like that where if I say something to my wife and maybe I'm a little too authentic and I say something that maybe was offensive and I just shouldn't have said that,

Or I just,

I'm not,

Maybe I'm tired and I'm just not performing at a hundred percent and I fall short.

I mean,

I did that dude,

Like last week we had a bit of an episode where my wife is really big on me coming through and doing the things that I say I'm going to do.

It's just a,

It's a safety thing.

The way she grew up,

She needs that in her life.

She needs to know if I say I'm going to be somewhere at four o'clock,

I'm going to be there at four o'clock,

Not 4 37.

And I'm an artist.

I've always been a kind of optimist when it comes to time.

I show up late to shit all the time.

I'm never on time.

It's something I'm really working on is just being punctual and being where I'm going to say I'm going to be at the time I said I'm going to be there.

And we've been doing really well for the past couple of months.

I mean,

No fucking arguments,

Tons of amazing conversations and just everything seems like it's falling into place.

And then last week I told her I was going to pick her up at four o'clock and take her somewhere and I lost track of time and I showed up at four 30 and she was fucking furious and we had this huge blowout.

And look,

Man,

Like it's going to happen like that.

And it's going to be messy sometimes.

It's not going to be perfect,

But I just had to be authentic,

Own my mistake,

Witness and experience the chaotic,

Crazy energy that that came out of her because of it,

Apologize,

Atone.

And we got right back to business and everything is better again.

And it's just,

That's going to,

That's going to fucking happen.

And as men,

We don't want it to,

We want to know that like when things are going in the right direction,

We want them to continue to go in the right direction.

Well,

Sometimes you're going to take a couple of fucking steps back.

That's just part of it.

It's part of the game.

But as long as we're sitting here being consistent,

Being authentic,

Working on constantly bettering ourselves,

Setting our boundaries and performing at the highest level we have available to us,

Things are going to work out and it's just part of it.

Yeah,

I think a lot of guys don't realize how possible it is to recover when imperfections happen.

Because that's what it comes down to,

Right?

Like,

If you knew that you're going to be fine the next day,

You're not going to be so worried about this one mess up.

But yeah,

There's maybe something in our wiring.

I actually think one of the reasons why I mean,

I don't know if this happens nowadays,

But in pre internet generations,

There's kind of the common trope of like,

The dad goes out for cigarettes and never comes back.

And I think I think what that comes down to is like the guy messed up with something he thought he was like,

Actually,

I don't know if you watch the show,

Rick and Morty,

But I do an episode on this of like,

The father messes up.

So he just thinks he has to start over like he can't come back to his family and which is a ridiculous thing.

It's a ridiculous idea on many levels.

But it is something in our wiring.

It's like,

I messed up.

It's never going to be good again.

I bet us we'll start over.

Yes,

Very relatable.

I mean,

It's especially feels that way.

When you've made leaps of improvement after multiple years of it feeling like it was over.

When you start repairing it and seeing the real progress like the sweet stuff,

The stuff that you've been starved for,

For years return,

Those fuck ups can hurt.

And it is tempting to just be like,

Well,

It's over.

I blew it again.

We're going right,

We're regressing right back to where we were.

But that's not true.

And if you stay grounded,

And you stay Shiva,

And you just lay on the ground,

Let your wife trample you a little bit,

Things are going to go back to normal.

And they're going to be just okay.

Like,

And that's,

And that's fine.

And it's going to be messy sometimes.

And it's just part of it.

And it's okay.

You try not to make those mistakes.

You try not to fuck up.

You try not to say the wrong thing.

But it's going to happen.

And you just just keep it as gangster as possible.

And things will play out fine.

Yeah,

Yeah.

On that I there's actually another article I wrote on if you saw on Colossus versus Wolverine,

The X-Men characters.

And it's basically like a lot of guys think they need to be Colossus for like nothing can get into them.

But Wolverine is actually a better model where he gets fucked up all the time.

But he can recover.

That's his superpower.

And if you just think of yourself as Wolverine,

It's like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I can deal with this.

And then you don't have to be so cold.

You don't have to retaliate.

Because like,

Why would you hold someone responsible if you're just going to recover in 20 minutes?

So yeah,

Yeah,

It makes you just more grounded and chill.

You are a master of these parables,

My friend.

I'm telling you,

Man,

I'm telling you,

You get it.

You think in these,

This imagery of like taking characters and stories and mythology and comic books and like figuring out a way to apply it to interpersonal relationships on a day to day basis is a very sharp talent of yours.

And I'm very impressed by it.

Thank you.

I'm glad there's some use to it because this is what I this is what I daydream about.

So there's definite use to it.

I mean,

It's,

I'm telling you,

Like,

I might take your article and like,

Enshrine it in my house and just I probably know all of the words to it.

Like it's an old like gangster rap tape.

Like I have read that fucking thing so many times.

And it's just,

I it's brilliant stuff.

So I know that we have to talk about other stuff.

And you don't want to spend your show talking about how great your stuff is.

But I just I love it.

And I more people really need to check that,

That that stuff out.

Thank you.

Yeah,

So I do want to ask because I actually didn't know what the conclusion was,

Because you and your wife had some intimacy blocks for some time.

And it sounds like the physical intimacy is back.

Is that right?

Yes,

Yes.

And we were doing.

So you gave us a couple of exercises to go through.

One of which was going through all of her painful,

Heartbreaking gut wrenching memories.

And having her walk me through them,

Which was a really hard thing.

And she spent like a week,

A week and a half,

Like every night working on this kind of write up of everything from the beginning,

And just trying to find all this resentment so she could liberate it and walking me through and having me just take it,

Just sit there and take it.

Don't provide context.

Don't provide a fucking response.

Don't respond and say,

Oh,

Well,

It wasn't meant like this.

Just let her fucking say it.

And we did that.

And that sucked.

It hurt.

And it was interesting because right when we were done doing it,

She was like,

I don't feel any better.

And then like a couple of days passed.

And then she goes,

You know what,

Like some of that stuff that I said to you that night seemingly doesn't exist inside of me anymore is resentment.

Can we do that again?

And I said,

Yeah.

So she went back and found several more things that like just the stuff that she just fucking wanted to whip my ass with.

Like this one time you said this thing to me and it just fucking pissed me off.

And we did it again and really did it.

Like when I say like we have this thing,

It's where our Mandir is,

Our Hindu idols are in it.

We,

It has tons of candles,

This really pretty room in our house and it's devoted to prayer and connection and alignment.

No love making nothing,

But just sitting down and connecting as a family or connecting with your spirituality.

It's a room dedicated to that in our house.

And we did that,

Lit all the candles and we,

We really went through it.

And man,

I let her play out her Kali for lack of a different metaphor multiple times.

And it man,

As tough as it was to hear.

And I think as tough as it was to say,

It's seemingly has alleviated a great deal of the resentment that she had for me.

And there's something to be said about that of like resentment,

Maybe being unexpressed motion where she has told me about some of these things in the past.

There's just issues from,

I mean,

Our wedding day would be an example.

I called her a bad name on our wedding day and not my shiniest brightest best moment by a long shot,

But it happened and it's always bothered her.

And we threw it like we really walked through it and she just said how she felt.

And then she's seemingly kind of been freed of it where it's just like,

She's been trapped inside of her.

And now she's like,

You know what?

I not only forgive you,

But I think I'm kind of disconnected from that now since we've done that.

So that was a wonderful exercise.

And then we just started touching each other again and kind of non intercourse based ways where whatever we were going to,

You know,

Like the sole purpose is not to reach orgasm or to fuck or anything like that.

And it's just been taking turns,

Giving each other foot rubs and spending,

You know,

20 minutes just touching each other in a way where we're both connected to what's happening.

We both have consent.

It's this very like methodical process.

And we started slowly but surely doing that.

And then it just kind of escalated from there into all the fun,

Freaky shit that,

You know,

Hasn't existed for a long time.

And she has said that the past two months of our marriage has been the best two months of our marriage since the very beginning.

And it's all just been because of this whole change in my approach toward things.

I mean,

Do we spent three years with her basically saying she wanted a divorce.

I mean,

We saw a therapist,

I don't know how many times and made progress,

Don't get me wrong.

But just the understanding of masculine feminine polarity and just re approaching how I am as a partner,

As a man,

And what presence I have in her life and what presence she has in my life has changed everything.

I mean,

Fucking everything.

So it's been really,

Really wonderful to have my friend back and to have my wife back and to see like,

Look like I think that we're actually going to survive what has been a gut wrenching past few years.

And it actually feels like,

I mean,

Just to tell you this,

She has baby fever right now.

So she's like,

Once a third one,

And I don't know if that's going to actually happen.

But if you just as an indicator of where we're at,

We are having discussions about another child.

So yes,

It's safe to say that that has returned.

Wow,

That's amazing.

Yeah,

It is.

It is amazing.

It really is.

It is amazing.

And it's wonderful to know that a relationship that was so broken and so fractured and in such a bad place can recover.

Like dude,

If we can recover anybody out there that's listening that is having marital problems,

Check out the things that I've talked about so far with Wuhan in this show.

And that's the instruction manual for you,

Because it really has changed everything.

Wow.

Wow.

It's really humbling to hear that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

That resentment piece,

It's like,

It's so key.

I mean,

Actually,

I learned that at one taste.

It's one of the things I have to be grateful to them for.

It's like,

It's the idea that when we don't get to fully feel what we're feeling because we're trying to be proper or save our partner's feelings or whatever,

That feeling doesn't go away and it stays stuck.

And we only have so much capacity for feeling.

So if we didn't get to finish that feeling from like 10 years ago on our wedding day,

We don't get to feel as much now,

Including our bodies.

So like years and years of resentment eventually caused sex drive to deplete because there's not enough.

You're still feeling your old feelings,

So you can't feel the current ones.

Correct.

100%.

One,

One of the things I want to say is,

So,

Um,

I showed my wife,

Your,

One of your videos about,

It was either one of the ones about the matriarchal sex cult,

Or it was one where you talk about you learning a majority of what you understand about women through touching clitorises.

And when we watched that video,

Seeing my wife's reaction to it,

Where you talk about,

You know,

Women want to have as much sex as men or sex as much as men do,

It's just,

They don't want the sex that's on the menu.

And that video where you go through all those different concepts of what women want,

Safety,

The hue,

Probably the biggest word that needs to be in every man's lexicon when it comes to being sexually active and romantically active with a woman is safety.

That is fucking everything and safe from consequences,

Safe from judgment and just feeling safe.

And that is such a thing that men don't ever learn about.

I mean,

I would say that like most men still don't understand that they think that there's,

There's gotta be something else,

But no,

I mean,

It really is safety and safe with your grounded masculine energy.

Like the way that I have been describing it and thinking about this is that masculine energy and feminine energy,

It's like feminine energy is like the water in a pool and masculine energy is like the pavement that contains the water in a pool.

And they both come together and make a swimming pool.

And it's feminine energy is this flowing,

Transforming,

Chaotic,

Unrestrained energy and masculine energy is grounded and sturdy and firm.

And a lot of men when they're in their feminine,

That's when a woman is going to be turned off or she's going to be pushed away or look at you as somebody she just wants to be platonic friends with,

Which is okay,

But it's not what a lot of men oftentimes want.

And it's just because women have all these different tactics that they use.

Some of them are conscious,

Some of them are subconscious,

But they want to see how much of your feminine energy actually exists because they want to be safe and you're masculine.

And that is something that a lot of dudes,

Especially like I would argue,

Like pickup artist dudes are not in a lot of times they're masculine because they're kind of obeying more feminine driven ideas and principles.

And it's just because they haven't learned about safety and they don't understand how that works yet.

But yeah,

Yeah.

A lot of pickup stuff like it comes from such a,

I mean the pickup world is created by computer nerds.

So like it's like guys who specifically are not reading things beyond the superficial and it makes me think and I was making notes while you're speaking.

It's like,

Like all those guys are always talking about dominance,

Right?

Dominance and I talk about dominance too.

It's like obviously a very attractive masculine trait.

But the reason why dominance is important is because a dominant male can provide safety to a woman in a way that a weak man can't.

So like the idea of like doing these like alpha social tricks without actually providing safety is kind of like empty calories or like a fake version of it,

Right?

Like it's the whole reason why she wants the big,

Tough,

Strong guy is that he can keep her safe when there's threats around.

Yes.

And that's why women would look at a dude that is like,

When you talk about like the big tough guy where they would see a guy that is nothing more than like muscles and go like,

All right,

Well this dude is actually more of a little bitch than he thinks he is because all he is is a dude with big fucking muscles and that that is more what you're talking about,

Like empty calories.

It's not necessarily an authentic representation of a man just because you have big roided up muscles.

And it's,

It's men do shit like that in every area of their lives,

Whether it's getting expensive cars or running social tricks and pick up artists,

Tricks and game and stuff like that.

It all comes from feminine.

It comes from a feminine place.

It comes from a place of insecurity and chaos and,

And the actual masculine version of it would probably be not doing any of those things and letting it play out.

And obviously there's an element of men and of women too,

That,

That need to be proactive about finding sex and creating partnerships.

And so I don't think it's all from the feminine,

But I do think that like a lot of that exists in a kind of more superficial,

Fake plasticy hollow world,

Which in my opinion is a representation of a man being in his feminine energy.

And knowing that now,

Knowing how much of my life I spent doing that,

I,

That has been the biggest change for me is actually authentic,

Authentically being an instrument of masculine energy versus being a,

A,

A kind of like fake representation of it,

Which all came from feminine.

If any of that makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like a,

You know,

They focus on advertising rather than having a good product,

Which is why I have a lot of friends that I started there.

I was my intro into personal development and a lot of my friends or people I knew who stayed there,

They maybe have learned how to pick up women,

But they never have good relationships.

They always have become like a super little bitch when they're,

When they actually like someone because it's,

Yeah,

It's all,

It's all just a,

It's all a facade basically.

Yes.

All of a side.

And it it's a lot of dudes are like that.

And it's,

I would say an overwhelming majority of men are like that.

And I,

You see it and like,

I,

I don't know why the fuck.

Oh,

I guess I had a show the other night.

No,

This,

Okay.

So I had a show the other night and my wife who is a drummer and has been playing drums for a couple of years now joined me for the first time on stage,

Which was a huge bonding experience for us.

I mean,

It was dude,

It was amazing.

It was,

She's never gotten on stage before.

It was like one of her most cherished memories ever.

But the point I'm trying to make is I was at a bar during the show,

Like a separate bar before I went over to the club that my show was at.

And I was watching dudes try to pick up this bartender and it's crazy to see how uncomfortable men are around women,

Especially when they're trying that shit and in and trying to run game.

And they turn very hostile very quickly.

And it's so ungrounded and disingenuous.

And it's like,

Guys,

Women have a completely different system in their bodies than we do.

They have a much more elaborate set of genitals and they're not,

They're not like this hydraulic,

This like hydraulic pressure where it's trying to get come out and fertilize all the seed out there.

Women have to select what goes into them and they have to nurture the body or the baby that grows inside of their body.

And then for life care about it,

Especially running the risk of losing you as a partner.

And it's all,

It's all about safety.

It's all knowing like,

Are you the right motherfucker for me when it comes to like,

Can I breed with you?

Do you have strong enough genes for me to breed with?

Are you an honest,

Genuine,

Loving,

Compassionate person who is going to not only provide me with companionship and friendship and a loving,

Nice environment to be in,

But are you going to provide a safe environment for me to raise this child in?

And are you going to guard the perimeter when I'm nursing the baby?

And are you a dude that I can depend on or when things get difficult,

Are you going to go out for a pack of cigarettes and never come home?

And you see so much of this and it as kind of intense of a comparison as that is,

It really is what comes down to it when we're talking about sexual energy and sexual chemistry is she is the selector and she needs to know if you're the,

A partner that is worthy of putting a baby inside of her.

And that sexual energy comes from you being that dude and her accepting that you are that dude because you're providing for her the safety and the confidence in her decision to meet with you.

And sometimes that just plays out as fucking you one time in a car and never talking to you again.

Other times that turns into a relationship.

But at the end of the day,

That sexual chemistry all comes from that same place.

Are you the type of dude that's going to guard the fucking perimeter when I'm nursing?

And can I trust you and can I be safe around you?

And are you the type of guy that is going to let me trample you when I'm angry and you're going to be chill about it.

You're not going to be too affected.

You're not going to turn into a little bitch.

You're not going to turn into a chili pimp.

You're not going to run.

Are you that dude?

And as long as all those things play out and are in place,

Sex can happen and sexual energy will happen.

But a lot of dudes,

When they try to approach women,

They turn hostile very quickly.

They're mean,

Overly competitive and they're like overcompensating.

And that comes from feminine.

And it's such an interesting dynamic to watch and you see it play out fucking everywhere if you know what you're looking for.

And I'm sure you see it all the time.

Like you see couples walking down the street,

You can tell by a woman's posture and a man's posture when they're walking together where they're at in terms of the polarity.

Like you'll see a woman walking more like a dude and the man next to her is kind of walking like a little bitch.

And you're like,

Man,

That is a sexless,

Joyless marriage right there.

And it's because he's not stepping up and doing his part as a man and providing her the safety for her to relax into her feminine.

So she's in her masculine right now.

It's so fucking fascinating,

Dude.

Yeah.

Are you familiar with John Gottman?

Have you heard of him?

I've read all of his books.

No,

You didn't.

All of them.

I've read a lot of them.

Cool.

Because I've actually read none of them.

I've seen other people talk about his stuff,

Like how he can tell within seconds if a couple's going to be married.

Yeah.

Still in a yeah.

Just from like,

You know,

These little things like if the woman is showing contempt towards the man,

She doesn't respect him,

Which means she's going to lose interest sexually pretty soon.

And it is kind of obvious if you know what to look for.

Yes.

And for the record,

Yeah,

That's from the four horsemen.

His marriage principles were that the four horsemen are the four things that you should never do in a marriage.

It's criticism,

Contempt,

Stonewalling and defensiveness.

Those are the four and contempt is the worst one.

And I spent a majority,

Not a majority,

But a good amount of the last several years with my wife being very contemptuous for me.

I mean,

We were at the fucking end,

But a lot of it came from me being defensive,

Which is another one of the four horsemen.

And defensiveness happens when men are too egotistical to hear the feedback from their wives.

Like,

I hate it when you do this.

Don't fucking say that to me.

How dare you say that to me?

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And you're not letting her Kali play out.

Like that's that's what is happening is Kali stepped on Shiva and Shiva got up and either ran away or told her to stop or whatever it is.

And that's defensiveness.

And that is an ingredient for disaster in a marriage.

Yeah,

I've read a lot of stuff.

He's an amazing guy.

Yeah.

Something my wife and I've been speaking about actually yesterday,

We spoke about this a lot and how the worst thing is to perceive that we're separate,

Right?

Because like,

When we it's one thing to have a fight fights are going to happen,

Like,

You know,

Her Kali coming out is going to happen.

But if we see ourselves as two entities who have to be nice to each other,

It's just not the right is the relationships not just not going to work that way.

Whereas like,

We have to on the underlying like,

Perception of reality,

We have to see ourselves as an interdependent group,

As an interdependent team.

And therefore,

Whatever happens inside is fine,

Because we're still,

You know,

I'm still forming the perimeter around her feelings.

And that will always will always persist through whatever.

But like the minute you feel contempt,

You are seeing yourself as a separate entity from this other person who now you're blaming or you think should be nicer to you or whatever the complaint is in your head,

As opposed to the perception that you're connected.

100%.

And it's like,

If you had a house that you lived in,

And there was a broken plumbing pipe,

And it was causing a fucking leak,

Like a water main was broken in your house.

This is basically like you guys sitting there and pretending that the house doesn't need to be fixed.

And there's not a problem in it.

No,

This is such a lovely home.

Don't you love it here?

Oh,

Yeah,

This is great.

Because you have to fucking pull the floor up and repair a goddamn broken water main in your relationship.

And it's not always pleasant.

It's not supposed to be always pleasant.

It's not a good thing if you guys are just being nice to each other and friendly and everything is chipper.

And we're just avoiding confrontation and coexisting.

And both of us are full of resentment,

Anger and hostility.

And goddamn it,

I want to say this to her and goddamn it,

I want to say this to him.

You're thriving when you guys have a safe platform to share those things and know that the other person is still going to stay connected to the group.

I'm going to say some things that you're not going to like.

I'm going to say some things that are going to hurt your feelings.

Okay,

Say them.

Even if you hurt my feelings,

You are safe to say those things.

And it's the difference.

And it's like you have to be in a place with each other where it's okay to be hostile.

It's okay to say things that are unpleasant to play out bad energy or dark energy or chaotic energy,

Whatever it is.

It's okay to do those things.

What's not okay is being polite and being nice and pretending all of those things don't or shouldn't exist.

They should exist.

It's what happens in a healthy,

Thriving relationship.

Yeah,

For sure.

And also,

Because I think a place where a lot of guys get stuck or confused is when to draw the line.

Like you know,

Because you know,

There is there is a limit.

I mean,

Even in the Kali article,

Like there is a limit.

I mean,

Shiva probably would have contained her at some point.

And that actually is another thing that gives you the feeling of safety.

Like if you know if you let her like punch holes in the wall and like destroy the house and stuff,

She's actually going to realize that you're not going to contain her like how how could you protect her when she's pregnant?

If you don't even defend yourself if she's throwing stuff or whatever,

Whatever the line is right,

Correct.

And like,

Yeah,

And like even you know,

I mean,

My wife has never done anything that extreme but there have been moments especially you know,

She's gone through like the postpartum period,

Her emotions have been kind of particularly high in the moments where I really need to be like,

All right,

Listen,

This is this is not you know,

This is the line right?

She actually calms down like it's I think on some level,

Whether it's semi conscious or whatever,

She's like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I can calm down because I'm in the presence of a man who is containing me,

You know,

Both allowing me space but also showing the line.

And she's actually brought this analogy up with kids like,

If a kid doesn't have a fence to play in,

And it's just like wide open fields,

It actually the kid will actually feel like a little bit afraid and like not not go out exploring.

But if he knows where the where he's safe,

Like where the boundaries are,

He'll go all the way to the end.

And you know,

Adults are the same way like we want to know where the where the fences essentially.

Yeah,

And it's a big reason why I use that metaphor or the analogy of a swimming pool,

Where you are the pavement containing the water.

And it's it's water in a swimming pool,

There's walls.

I mean,

You're not you know,

Some water may get out and go one way or splash here or there sometimes.

But for the most part,

99% of the swimming pool water is contained inside of that pool.

And it's the same thing.

I mean,

You're right,

It,

It's safe,

They appreciate and I think my wife,

And one of the greatest things that's happened is not only have I let her play out her colleague,

Which is what we've been talking about,

But what you're also talking about,

There are consequences.

And it's not like,

You know,

You want to be some fucking,

You know,

Like Thanos and rule your house with an iron fist and it turns into bloody murder if she oversteps or boundaries,

But there is a level of stern speaking or,

Or just the word consequences,

There are consequences,

You fucking get too far out of line,

We're going to have a sit down and you're going to hear masculine feedback.

And I'm going to quell that shit.

And we're going to just shut it down right there.

And or maybe not be as extreme and as black or white,

Just I'm going to assert myself and explain why I don't appreciate what you said,

Why I feel like you're being out of line and disrespectful.

And I need you to know that it needs to discontinue right now.

And I think they like knowing that there is a limit because it gives them boundaries to play inside of and they have to know that they can express those emotions,

But knowing that they can't just trample you and walk all over you,

Knowing that they can do those things safely,

They can express their feminine energy safely,

Be chaotic,

Be violent,

Be upset,

Cry,

Have fucking breakdowns,

Especially,

You know,

When they're,

They're bleeding every month,

The wild emotions that they feel,

They need to know that they're safe to do those things and knowing that there are boundaries where,

Oh,

I don't want to go too far that way because if I do,

Then I'm no longer safe.

It creates an extra layer of safety for them.

And it's really important to understand exactly what about you,

You can provide for your wife.

Because I have found that my wife really appreciates the level of room and space that I give her to unfold all of that energy,

But she knows that there's a limit and it's,

It,

It just,

It's nothing but,

But extra safety and it's what they all need.

And it's a really,

Really beautiful thing.

And I think that it's important to assert those boundaries,

Draw those boundaries and let them know,

Like,

Look like you're welcome to go fucking absolutely crazy.

But if you go too far this way or too far that way you're violating and that's when consequences are,

Are going to have to be repaid.

And it's,

It's just,

It's a beautiful thing,

Man.

Yeah.

The swimming pool analogy is a good one.

The other day we ate some edibles and I was like ranting on how you have to be like the water and I'm like the cup and she's like the cup,

Like the cup,

I don't want to think of you as a cup.

I'm like,

Oh yeah,

We got to think of a better,

Better image.

So swimming pool,

Swimming pool is much better.

Yeah.

And the kids can play in it too.

So it's a nice thing.

But any metaphor like that works.

It's just,

You're containing a wild flowing source of energy and it's,

That's your job as a man.

Too many men either don't draw the boundaries or they become the water themselves.

And it's like both of those are,

Are exactly the opposite of what provides and creates a successful romantic relationship.

Yeah.

And actually what you just said about like the kids being in it too.

I mean it is the man's role in the entire family too.

Like I don't,

You know the nursery rhyme,

The farmer and the Dell.

Yes,

I do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I forgot about,

I mean I just had a kid,

So I'm remembering all these nursery rhymes and I was like,

Oh yeah,

It's kind of describing like the concentric circles of like a polarized family.

Like the father contains the wife,

The wife contains the children.

We all contain the pets like,

And yeah,

Anyway.

I know I love,

I love your knack for that.

Where every story,

Nursery rhyme,

Comic book,

Mythological tale,

All of them,

You go like,

You know,

That's kind of like a romantic relationship.

I think it's amazing.

I think you should do that with everything.

Like every great story that's ever come out.

I think you should do a series on like,

Here's why this is,

You know,

Applicable to dating or marriage or raising children because it's,

It's,

But it's true.

And that's the beauty of stories is you look at brilliant,

Amazing stories from the past and,

And,

Or that are like the classics in our lives,

Whether it's a comic book or the movie Goodfellas or whatever it is.

And there's always those wonderful metaphors for your own life that you can obey and learn from.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's what drew me to Carl Jung's work on how he would like pick apart myths like Oedipus or whatever.

And like,

Oh,

Here's why it applies.

Here's why it's been so interesting for thousands of years that tells us something about our lives.

Yeah,

Man.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually,

You made that,

You said this thing earlier.

I made a note about how in some way Kali like filled in kind of a maternal role for you.

Yeah.

It's interesting because like,

You know,

You know,

We're speaking about religion and Christianity.

I grew up Catholic.

My friends,

I mean,

Even though I rejected that at a young age,

Also,

I was atheist for a while.

I couldn't deny that my really Christian friends who like really believe that have a father in heaven,

They had some like level of security that I didn't have.

And I have a good buddy now who,

Who just became a dad.

Also,

That's kind of how we connected.

And he's Rasta Farian,

Like hardcore Rasta.

And he doesn't even want to be called a father.

This is kind of random,

But he doesn't want to be called a father.

Cause in his,

You know,

For his religion,

Rasta,

Rasta,

Rasta,

You know,

The God in heaven is everyone's father.

And like,

I used to think that was kind of a silly idea,

But then I realized,

You know,

We are still adult children and there is a spiritual take on it,

But it's like,

There is a huge amount of security in just believing there's something also looking out for you.

Yes.

That's amazing.

And in a lot of ways,

That is what we were just talking about with like the metaphors for masculine and feminine energy is,

Is that,

That goes even further just in a universal and in a spiritual sense of those boundaries and that safety and,

And having,

Having,

You know,

I guess maybe for me,

Kali being a maternal goddess in my life,

It's,

I,

I don't know that I've actually needed a father figure with somebody that could set that grounded energy for me and,

And,

And really helped me understand boundaries and,

And all of those things that a more masculine centric force in your life would.

I think the thing that I've needed to understand is everything from a feminine side of things.

And it's Kali,

You know,

Like I said,

I've lost my mom,

So I haven't had other than my sisters,

Much of a reference on what women experience and feel and go through.

And I have a wife and I have a daughter.

So you'd think that that would be something that I would need,

But I just haven't had anybody really supply that in my life.

I have a step mom,

She's a beautiful person,

But I just,

I've been missing a mother in the way that Kali is my mother.

And it's,

It's less about providing grounded energy for me and more about providing the,

The kind of nourishing feminine energy that I've needed.

And,

And,

But at the end of the day,

It's really about creating those safe boundaries and,

And,

And safety.

And,

And it's,

It's has provided me with this extra layer of love and this extra layer of support,

Whereas maybe a masculine deity would provide be more of a provider.

I feel like Kali is more of a supporter and I feel nourished by her less supported by her.

I don't know.

I'm getting into kind of an abstract thing that I haven't really explored explored yet,

But that's a fascinating thing that your friend says where he doesn't even want to be known as a father because God is his father like that.

That's that's amazing.

That's a really beautiful sentiment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh,

I wanted to ask you did your wife quit her job?

She is working on that.

So dude,

Interestingly enough,

So we've been looking into we're,

We're thinking about moving and one of the places we're considering moving is Thailand.

We're considering it.

So you know,

Like,

I don't want to speak too soon,

But it would be dope like to come out there.

But we,

We are like,

She is well aware.

I'll say that she's well aware because that was the third thing that you said because we talked about the first two exercises that you had us do.

And then the third one was her quitting her job.

And we have really been talking about this.

We've you know,

It's not quite as simple as something she can just walk out.

I mean,

She would like to at least know what she's going to do.

Just in terms of what she's going to do with her life.

That's about what she's going to do as a vocation,

But we're talking about it a lot.

And I can tell you a few things.

Number one,

She totally agrees with everything you said when it comes to like women living in a,

Or existing and working in a,

A high stress corporate environment being pushed over into their masculine.

And you do it.

I don't know if I told you this when we talked,

But three of her female coworkers,

Did I tell you this three of my wife's female coworkers three in the last year who are also a part of this high stress pharmaceutical job that my wife works at have had their uteruses removed.

They've had to it,

Their uterus became,

And my wife she's asleep right now,

Or I'd have her come down and explain this.

But basically what has happened to all three of these women is their uterus becomes over enlarged and starts attacking their own body.

And think of that just in terms of what we're talking about,

Like a woman being an instrument of feminine energy,

Being too far in her masculine energy,

What that starts to do to her reproductive organs.

And it's a really scary thing for my wife.

She is very,

Very much in tune with the idea that this job and this career is not what her body or her spirit or her energy is meant to do.

And so that's it,

That is in the process,

But it's definitely in the cards and definitely like,

She's not going to stay at this job for sure.

And it's all a big part of it is because of that.

And it's high stress and she just feels like she's not herself.

And then when she gets off work,

She has to wind down for a couple of hours because she's just so on edge and ready,

Has her fucking claws and fangs out and feels like she's been on a battlefield all day.

And they're not meant to do that.

They're just not.

Not to get too far and harp on gender roles and shit,

But for fuck's sake,

I mean,

It's just that their bodies are not meant to go through that type of shit.

And she knows that.

So that's the next step.

But one of the things that we want to do is she wants to quit her job and we want to relocate entirely out of America and go somewhere else and start some sort of new venture together.

And what that is,

We don't know yet,

But it's definitely on the horizon.

And it's definitely something that we're putting like real conversation and real energy.

And it's not a,

Oh yeah,

One day,

Like,

I mean,

We're really going to do this.

It's just aligning perfectly and figuring out exactly what that means.

But man,

That's,

That's going to happen for sure.

Cool,

Man.

Would it be difficult for you to have your career outside of America though?

In terms of touring?

Yes,

It would.

I would have to come here to tour,

But at the same time,

I'm 40,

Almost 41.

And as much as I love my career and plan on doing it in some capacity forever,

I am at a stage in my life where I'm ready for maybe the next chapter.

I'm ready for the next challenge and maybe relocating and going somewhere else.

I can see an opening in the world that I can learn and start.

You know,

We're both jujitsu guys.

So start at white belt in some sort of other vocation or some sort of other passion.

And you know,

Obviously I always want to play by my rules.

It's a,

It's something that I'd rather be fucking dead broke knowing I was waking up every day and doing what I love to do than ever work for somebody else and make a salary.

Doing something I didn't enjoy and wasn't,

I just,

I'm not meant to do that,

But you know,

Maybe there's something somewhere else that I need to go and find.

I don't know what that means.

I don't know what it is,

But I'm definitely open-minded and have an open heart to the idea.

So yeah,

I would still do my career.

I still love what I do,

But I am a really,

Really fine with maybe the next chapter,

Like,

You know,

Starting now.

So we're going to find out for sure.

But Everett,

There's all these moving pieces and so much is changing and it's,

It's really fucking awesome to experience.

Nice.

Yeah.

Well,

It'd be awesome to see you in Thailand.

Bali,

I mean,

I could send you a message on this,

Off,

Outside of this,

But Bali is a very Hindu Island.

So you might actually like that.

Dude,

Absolutely.

We definitely,

Are you,

Are you guys staying there?

Do you,

Do you still love it?

Yeah.

I mean,

We're,

We,

We just got like a long-term business visa to stay here.

I mean,

Long-term.

We're going to be here probably until our kid needs to go to school and then we're going to think about it further.

Very cool.

Very cool.

Are there no like schools there that,

That you feel like would?

Well,

The Island that we're on,

Like before the pandemic,

It was kind of like a hippie vacation Island.

Okay.

A couple of years ago,

A lot of families from Israel and Russia moved here.

So it's becoming a family friendly Island,

Which is why we're staying here.

But as far as like,

Actually,

We haven't looked into the schools yet.

I guess in a couple of years,

We'll see if the schools are good and then see if we're going to stay or not.

There are a bunch of like alternative schools on the Island though.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

That's seriously awesome.

I think it's dope.

I don't know,

Man.

I've never lived anywhere but Kansas city.

My wife has lived in multiple cities around the world and I never have.

I've been to a bunch of cool places,

But I've never lived anywhere else.

She's from Hawaii,

Right?

Yes.

She's from Hawaii.

And she's lived in like California,

Austin,

Paris.

She's lived in a lot of cool places.

I've never lived anywhere but here.

And it feels like it's time.

It's like,

I think that this place has served all of the purpose it's going to serve.

And I did everything from here,

Played by my rules,

But now I think I'm ready to go out and,

You know,

Fucking 40 years old,

Like let's go see what else is out there and what else there is to do and what other things I can do with my life.

I've been doing my career for over 20 years and have been pretty successful with it and have definitely done a bunch of cool stuff.

And it's like,

You know,

I don't know if I want to do that from 40 to 50 to 60.

I'm not a hundred percent sure yet.

So I'm on a search and I'm really excited to see what else is out there because I love life and I love working and creating.

And I think that there's some sort of cool venture out there for me somewhere in the world that I can start to devote my energy and time to.

That's awesome,

Man.

Well,

I'm very excited to see what you do next.

I mean,

I really appreciate your work.

We didn't get to talk about your book,

But I loved your book.

Thanks from Bennett.

So I don't know if you're going to do something in that area.

I mean,

Yeah,

I'd be excited to see what you end up doing next.

Yeah,

Man,

I appreciate that.

And thank you for all the love that you told me that one of my songs came on at Open Mat the other day.

And that's awesome,

Man.

That's the type of shit I love to hear.

And I just did this jujitsu fight on Saturday night.

I lost.

It sucked.

He was 6'4 and he couldn't be a nicer guy.

But we did this purple belt fight at Nate Diaz's private training facility.

They had this.

Oh,

Cool.

Yeah,

It was fucking cool.

Broadcast on YouTube and Nate Diaz was there.

There's a bunch of people there.

And I thought this much bigger,

Much stronger dude to me.

And I got tuned up pretty good,

But it was still fucking awesome to get out there.

And it's just everybody.

My point in bringing that up is that everybody there in the jujitsu community was showing me love and talking about how meaningful some of the records I've made were to them.

And it's just cool to get love.

And it's awesome to be able to do what I do and have been doing it for so long.

So yeah,

Man,

I appreciate all the love that you've given me and all the help that you've given me for sure.

For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm grateful that you randomly found my article.

Thank you,

Google gods.

I guess.

Yeah,

Man.

Yeah,

For sure.

Dude.

Thanks,

Man.

I appreciate it for sure.

It's cool.

You're becoming a friend.

And I just appreciate keeping in touch with you.

And I appreciate you inviting me on your show.

And if you ever want to do it again,

Where we talk about more of my music and book and stuff,

We definitely do that.

It's just let me know,

Man.

I feel bad.

I feel like we kind of got off into the Kali article.

And then I looked down and I'm like,

Holy shit,

We've been talking for like over an hour now.

I'm sorry about that.

Maybe that's my fault.

Yeah,

No worries.

Yeah,

I think it's all interesting.

Yeah,

Let's definitely do this again.

Maybe when you're in Thailand,

We could do it in person.

Are you in.

.

.

I don't know if you can edit this part out.

But what part of Thailand are you in?

Köppen Young.

Yeah,

I don't mind sharing.

It's an island in the south.

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't want to say it in case you didn't want to say it.

But I was like,

Yeah,

No worries.

If you guys are serious about coming out to Asia,

I'll send you a note offline about my thoughts about moving out here.

Yeah,

I would like to hear about it.

I would like to know about it a lot because we're curious about it.

And I'd like to know everything you have to say and positives,

Negatives,

Dos,

Don'ts,

Whatever,

Because I think that something like that is probably going to happen for us.

That just seems to be the move.

He's not super fond of America.

So I get it.

I mean,

You know,

Fucking this place runs its course at some point for people.

That's just,

You know,

We've all anybody that's lived in America long enough.

It's like,

You know,

There's other places in the world to go experience.

So we it doesn't always need to be a vacation.

I mean,

Maybe like living somewhere else is the move for for us.

And we're definitely thinking about it.

Yeah.

And I hope you have another kid.

Would require surgery.

So the one thing is I would have to go get my vasectomy reversed.

But my wife is like,

Well,

Maybe you're going to have to go get your fucking vasectomy reversed.

So my thing is like if we have another kid,

I want another kid after that.

So I'm not stopping at three.

If we're going to have three,

We're going to have four.

I mean,

I'm not going to have a number.

Yes,

Exactly.

Exactly.

Even number for sure.

I hope you have another kid,

Too,

Man.

Yeah,

Definitely.

It's in the plans.

I would like for I'm still I'm still working on her to accept three.

But we'll see one at a time,

I guess.

He wants to stop it,

Too.

So,

Yeah,

Three is a difficult number to get to.

I have a friend that has six.

So he said,

If you can get to three and you still feel good and intact,

Then you can get to four or five or six.

Like every kid after that is just a bonus at that point.

Well,

That's a good tip.

Yeah,

For sure.

Hey,

Man,

I appreciate you.

Have a great night.

Yeah,

You too.

Yeah,

Man.

Talk to you soon.

Thanks so much.

Truth,

I dress in a phone booth.

I'm invulnerable.

Touch no optimus.

Say optional.

Man,

You're comfortable.

You want a piece of me?

Take the whole thing golden.

Not so that I give it away.

Truth ain't black or white.

Even act right,

Right?

They're still a little gray.

I'm coming from Brooklyn straight to you.

Reviews

This was absolutely perfect. Thank you both so very much for the enlightenment and guidance. ✨💛✨