Benjamin Smythe: Dissolving Duality

Benjamin Smythe (Jack Saturday) is a unique individual. This is a unique episode. He talks philosophy and sees his life as a "one big art project." He embodies the Sacred Fool more than anyone I've ever met. This is fun one, and trippy. Is he nuts or a genius? You decide.

Transcript

Alright,

You are in for a unique experience.

This episode is definitely the most unique episode,

Most unique interview,

Conversation,

Podcast type thing I've done and I've done hundreds by now.

Benjamin Smythe is the legal name of today's guest.

He goes by Jack Saturday and some other names on the internet.

Really interesting dude.

I found him because my girlfriend has watched a lot of his videos on YouTube and they're actually kind of hard to find because unlike most people who share their thoughts on the internet and especially in philosophical bent,

Today's guest Jack,

I guess he goes by most,

Doesn't have a business.

He's not trying to promote anything.

He views his entire life as an art project and reminds me a lot of Matthew Silver who I mentioned,

Great performance artist.

But unlike other performance artists I've met,

Jack views his life as an art project and he's not trying to make anything or doesn't even have a mission.

He doesn't promote anything.

There's nothing he's trying to do other than be a clown.

I mean this in the way that I framed other performance artists embodying the sacred clown where they're playing the infinite game of life and doing it for themselves and reminding all of us not to take things so seriously.

If you did catch the live portion,

The live stream which we do,

I mean you can see on screen I'm definitely stumped by some of his responses.

More than anyone else I've had on the show,

I felt like a square in his presence.

I felt like wow,

I do take so many things seriously.

I thought I was really playing the fool's journey and living moment to moment and being playful but I was like man,

I am such a friggin' boring suit compared to this guy.

Not knocking suits either,

Not saying that they're boring necessarily.

But certainly yeah,

I just realized how seriously I take life after talking to him.

Really trippy things that happened right in the beginning.

We're kind of joking around about the technology gods.

I asked him a question to start us off with a grounded background question and it goes into this weird loop which is exactly how a lot of my mushroom trips start where I'm looping thoughts and looping experiences.

Anyway,

You'll see,

Cut it short obviously because at a certain point I lost its novelty and then we ended up talking for a little bit as a normal interview but not exactly normal because the guy is a unique character.

So I hope you enjoy this.

You can actually find him on YouTube if you want.

Just search for Jack Saturday or Benjamin Smythe.

And this is Jack Saturday,

Dissolving Duality,

Episode 008.

You're listening to the Ruwando Podcast,

Perpetual Orgasm,

Infinite Play.

Please subscribe on iTunes and enjoy the show.

All right,

We are live.

Sweet.

Sweet.

I'm glad we're connected.

I'm glad the technology gods allowed this to happen.

For sure.

Yeah.

So,

Yeah,

Thanks for being here.

And this is like an interesting one for me because usually I do like to research the guests especially like my girlfriend spoke highly of you when you watched a bunch of your videos and it's like,

Oh,

I need to meet this guy.

I need to figure this guy out.

But the hardest thing was I don't know.

I still don't know who you are.

I've watched like maybe a couple hours of you talking.

I still don't know.

Like,

So who are you?

I never asked that question ever.

Really?

I never asked that question ever.

I never asked that question ever.

So I'm looking at a camera.

Right.

And I would assume if you're looking at the screen,

We now know we're not even making eye contact.

Right.

OK,

Cool.

So technologically now,

I'm not what you see because we don't look at each other on the computer.

So I have to be the usage of the language.

I have to be immediately.

You're starting off great.

Well,

There's no past free will with location either.

So this is immediately what I must be the usage of this language.

And I'll open this up.

But it's so hilarious.

Like,

You know,

If you've ever done a Skype call with somebody,

You're like,

We're not actually looking at each other.

Right.

We're not.

So like some computers,

The cameras a little bit off.

So if you want to make eye contact,

You look away from where they are.

So you can either watch yourself or nobody.

Right.

So I don't know what I am other than what I'm saying.

That's my actual answer.

Got it.

OK.

Let's go off of that.

But just for a more grounded,

You know,

Gets no answer.

You make videos.

Wait,

Wait,

Wait.

You literally mean now let's play along with other people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

OK.

OK.

Terrible,

Terrible thing to do.

No worries.

Keep going.

OK.

Well,

It just seemed you make videos about consciousness.

Is that a fair?

Well,

I'm right.

OK.

I'm right in front of you.

And then I have made art that is past.

Got it.

The art sits there in the huge library now that is the Internet and people interact with it.

But I'm not a video in the same way that you're not really looking at me.

Right.

This is very important.

This is a huge part of what I try to talk about.

Humans can be very confused by the artifacts and by the technology.

Otherwise we're really alive like tigers,

Bears,

Great white sharks.

We're right here.

We're really alive.

And then we make trash.

And we think we've seen Robin Williams,

Matt Damon,

Lucille Ball.

We've never fucking met him unless we've actually met him.

We can't treat the trash like it's actually real.

Otherwise we forget what we are.

Even though we're not looking at each other right now,

Given that I'm looking at an image that I assume looks like what you look like in real life and you're responding to my questions,

Would you consider this exchange us meeting or is it?

Auditorially only.

Like I'm learning about your voice.

I can't learn about.

I could pick you out of a crowd now.

Maybe,

But only roughly dependent upon if you don't change your hairstyle and your clothes.

Like costumes make us kind of like,

Well,

You know,

Like toast.

So for me,

The audio,

The radio reality,

It's that famous line.

Like if television had been invented first,

We'd all be listening to the radio.

I could pick you out of a crowd now.

Maybe on if you don't change your hairstyle and your clothes.

Costumes make us kind of like,

Well,

Sorry,

I'm hearing myself.

Audio,

The radio reality.

What is that famous line?

Like in television had been invented first.

We'd all be listening to the radio.

I could pick you out of a crowd now.

Maybe on if you don't change your hairstyle and your clothes.

Costumes make us kind of like,

I'm hearing myself.

Audio,

The radio reality.

What is that famous line?

Like in television had been invented first.

We'd all be listening to the radio.

Costumes make us kind of like,

Well,

Sorry,

I'm hearing myself.

For those who are only listening and have no idea what's happening,

Benjamin's put up a Your Perfect Sign.

But are you hearing what I'm hearing?

I am.

Oh my God,

That was crazy fun.

Did you hear all of those loops?

Yeah,

The loops.

That was awesome.

For those who are only listening and have no idea what's happening,

Benjamin's put up a Your Perfect Sign.

But are you hearing what I'm hearing?

I am.

This feels like a mushroom trip.

All of those loops.

This is my first time.

The loops.

That was awesome.

For those who are only listening and have no idea what's happening,

Benjamin's put up a Your Perfect Sign.

That's awesome.

That's how you kind of dumb things down,

Right?

I don't know.

I mean,

It was sort of like,

What?

I love thinking there's a hacker somewhere laughing.

Or the technology guys were like,

Don't ask,

Don't tell.

Oh,

Right.

Don't ask,

Don't tell.

Yeah.

So you're onto something that I was interested in.

You were talking about art.

It was always just a big art project.

Yes.

And you were saying if you had a choice,

Do you feel like it's just something that has to come through you?

Or is art for fun for you?

Okay,

So the challenge is the structure of how we think of a self.

Not to nerd out,

But there's a huge difference between I was a consistent self and each second is a new version of a changing thing.

So for me,

The guy who started the idea didn't have a choice that he was there in that moment feeling that thing,

Experiencing that homeless guy who was saying you're perfect in the year 2000.

Like I was just on the street and this guy says it.

So like I didn't,

My parents didn't try to make me,

Right?

Like nobody fucks and makes anybody on purpose.

Wow.

That's like first excitement learning number one.

You mean you didn't try to make me?

I'm already free then.

And then the rest of it is like,

Well,

Where are we in line of our life that we learned the things we learned?

This is no different like me meeting you.

This isn't as inevitable as our grandparents fucking.

I mean,

It's really weird,

No,

No,

Really.

It really is that weirdly like Lego,

Like simple.

So for me,

It's like,

Well,

Since we're all Legos,

What's the art project?

Cause nobody will remember anyway.

It's not about legacy.

It's not about legend.

You won't remember me not on a long enough timeline.

So then how does art move from a place of it's not about me making money.

It's not about you remembering me.

It's something weirder,

Like an infinite game or since I'm going to die.

Well,

What am I going to do?

Since no one will remember not how will I run around and pretend somebody's going to fucking remember that feels like a waste of life.

Yeah.

I know.

I know.

I did.

And then I didn't.

So keep going.

We're going to learn it because we're both playing with the sound.

So keep going.

I love the idea of like the fool's journey and like knowing that you're perfect and living without having to think about the future.

I do feel trapped by the matrix often like thinking about the,

Well,

What about rent and what about this is,

And so that is to say the deeper thought is that one thing I was curious about you is to see if you actually lived the way you appear on videos or if it was a character.

Cause I've interviewed performance artists who really embody the clown.

Like I have this friend Matthew Silver.

He goes really deep into like the clown character and his performance art in New York.

When I met him,

I was kind of disappointed that he's like a regular guy who like has an apartment and he has a day job and he just like does things and that's a character.

And it seems like you're actually living your performance.

It's not really a performance.

You're just kind of living it.

Right.

I have to live my values.

So for me,

If I don't be the one thing that's actually following what he wants to do,

Then I don't quite understand what I'm doing.

Like I have $3,

000 right now.

That's it.

Wonderful.

That's a lot of money in a certain way.

And in America it's a little sketchy.

And then I have a passport,

A driver's license,

A bank card,

A credit card.

I have one backpack,

All my stuff fits in it.

And then I can walk out the door.

That's it.

That's all I got.

And then now I'm staying with the guy that's brilliant,

David Bortman.

Brilliant,

Brilliant.

And he's teaching me some beautiful things about conversation.

And so he's offered me a place to stay.

Wonderful.

I'll stay here.

Cause I've already been all over the world.

Like the world is just different people in different languages doing the same fundamental thing.

Care about their family,

Care about their friends,

Don't suffer.

Hilarious.

That's the whole world.

So right now I'm like,

Awesome.

I've landed in Ashland.

I got to find a job.

I have a rule that I don't run out of money and ask other.

I mean,

I try to like actually be responsible even though I think I'm a little off is not the right word,

But you know,

Like I try whatever I try.

So so far this far and that's it.

My thing is to not run a business.

Like to me,

You have to fake it when all of a sudden you're actually trying to get money.

But if you don't have to get any money,

You don't have to fake shit.

You can just go out and like do whatever be whatever.

I was holding the sign on the street this morning.

Like it's so beautiful when you don't have to fucking lie to people.

So for me it's that.

But whether or not you would have an impression of me and then get bored later cause you had a different impression based upon your ideas.

I don't know how I would ever be involved in that.

And I would encourage you to be as wrong or right as you want to be.

Like it doesn't actually matter to me.

Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense.

And I personally found myself get trapped once I start making money or having people expecting me to do something.

I don't want to do it anymore.

I've gone through a cycle so many times in the last many years.

Is that why you don't have a website or like?

Well I do.

I have a.

Yeah.

No,

I had all that.

I mean I had a funny like I tried something very specific,

Which was,

Well,

I'm not going to make a business and I am going to still put myself out there.

And what I found was it takes more energy since I'm not actually going to be rewarded for it than is worth it.

So now I don't really do anything.

I just like make some videos every now and then and play.

I don't,

I don't feel as invested in the sort of like story of me either.

Whereas before.

Yeah,

Go ahead.

My many names also Jack Saturday.

Well no,

Cause that's actually my name,

Right?

The people who made me,

They didn't try to make me.

So I think it's a rite of passage to actually rename yourself,

But I'm not going to pay the government to like use a name.

They didn't have the right to tell me I was supposed to be in the first place anyway.

So I use Benjamin Smythe as the legal function,

But my name to myself is Jack.

Oh,

So you go by Jack?

Yeah.

Like at the coffee shop and when I meet new people,

I always tell them my name's Jack.

My greatest friends were like,

No,

I'm not going to call you that.

And that was a beautiful lesson for me.

Like,

Oh,

You don't give a fuck about me at all.

Like I mean,

I think if we rename ourselves,

We really do finally learn something about who we really are since we weren't made on purpose.

But that's just me.

That's just like a philosophical game in the end,

I guess.

Yeah.

Well,

I mean,

That's what I want to talk to you about.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Personally,

I've been whenever I order like food or like anything anywhere I go,

Rudy is spelling my name.

I've done that for 29 years,

Like Rwanda,

Whatever.

Rudy,

Just everyone knows Rudy.

But now people like,

You know,

I just moved to Austin.

In the places I go,

It's like eating stuff.

They just know me as Rudy and I feel like a different person.

And yes,

In this coffee in this cafe,

I am Rudy.

But okay,

So this happens to me.

This is interesting now.

Why do you think you feel like a different person just based upon the sound changing?

Isn't that a weirder implication of how sound might affect us at all?

Yeah,

I guess.

I didn't think about it too deeply.

But I guess it's just this sound I've been identifying with for so long.

It's identified with another sound that's kind of similar but not feels like a different identity.

But then,

How fake was the identity in the first place?

Oh,

Good,

Good,

Good,

Good.

Oh,

Good,

Good.

Oh,

Good.

I'm entertained.

That is the next logical question.

Who the fuck was the other guy?

Oh,

Good,

Good.

Awesome.

I'm excited for you.

No,

Because it's so nice to realize you're not a sound.

Because then you're actually alive and then everybody else is wrong.

Wait,

Can you break that?

Yeah.

So I'm not a sound.

Because is it a boy or a girl?

What are you going to call it as the beginning of everybody's life?

Nobody was a sound on purpose.

Think of it this way.

Who named the first person?

There's no gods.

Who named the first person?

Right?

Like,

Whoa,

That's crazy.

The sound is alone traveling through all the me.

So to find out you're not a noise is wonderful because then everybody around you is just wrong.

You can name everybody yourself if you want to do.

That's what I mean.

If you want to just rename everybody,

Go for it.

What are they going to do about it?

It hits on a lot of,

I don't know how much you keep up with the gender identity discussion.

Oh,

Yeah.

No,

No,

I'm a fan of this.

I think it's really fascinating because you still just have a dick or a vagina or both.

So I'm fascinated by gender politics given biology demands a certain kind of behavior.

Yeah.

It does.

It does.

You can't avoid,

You either have an innie and an outie.

You can either be a womb or a non-womb.

So for me,

It's always femme to butch.

Forget man,

Woman,

Forget everything.

You're either on a femme,

Super femme extreme or a super butch extreme and everybody falls somewhere along these lines of power.

Yeah.

Well,

It makes it a lot easier to read people.

Insisting on other people calling you a certain pronoun.

No,

Fuck you.

Fuck you.

I don't care what my mouth is supposed to do ever says the mouth.

No,

I don't get involved in people's labeling politics.

Fuck you to tell me how to talk about you.

No way.

I'll talk about you how I want to.

What the hell you think you are?

You know,

Like that.

Like I'm real extreme with free speech.

You're not going to tell me how to talk about you.

You can't even see me.

Look at you.

You know what I mean?

Like,

Forget it.

Forget it.

I'm going to think for myself and I'll always respect people being themselves.

I don't care.

I don't have any need for a human being at all.

I don't want to touch you.

I don't want to I don't want any of your stuff.

Like humans are free.

Go ahead.

Do whatever you want.

I don't want them as property.

I don't want to join a group that wasn't Benjamin or Jack or Seth.

For when?

For just,

I don't know,

Just name just something.

Would you answer to that name?

Oh,

It's really bizarre.

I have to remember.

Yeah,

Like I spent a lot of time alone.

So okay.

It doesn't matter.

Like if somebody calls me a name,

I know what they think they mean.

I don't believe them,

If that makes sense.

Okay.

Because I only see bodies because I am the body.

Like I'm not Aristotelian.

There's nothing in what you're looking at that's also talking.

Right?

There's nothing in it.

It's actually a lot like I'm actually a lot.

Yeah.

It's a very different kind of Western view.

Oh,

You mean you don't have a mind and a body?

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

I actually am just a body that found a language.

No mind.

No mind.

You know it though.

If I went like this,

Like,

Where's the fucking mind?

You're looking at the whole thing.

Like it's bullshit.

It's just a body that found a language.

What about consciousness though?

No,

No such thing.

Find out who,

What would the problem be if there was no consciousness immediately?

If there's no consciousness.

Right now,

There's no consciousness.

What's the problem?

Who,

What am I perceiving consciously right now?

But wait,

What's the problem is the question.

Do you have a problem immediately if you have no consciousness?

Uh,

You're losing me here.

Okay.

Just it's real simple.

You know,

When you've been in an emergency,

Have you ever almost gotten into a car accident?

Okay.

Right now,

If you think,

Well,

Maybe there's no consciousness.

Do you get that emergency feeling or not?

I wouldn't,

But I guess.

You can't speak for anybody else.

I'm only asking you,

I'm not asking your representation of all the people,

You know.

Well,

I mean,

I wouldn't,

But like this body that is experiencing,

But the body's talking,

Right?

But if I was like an animal who could drive a car,

Right.

But that's an example.

So it's wait,

Wait,

Wait,

Wait.

Stay super simple,

Dude.

If you,

If consciousness is something you don't believe in,

Does it change your actual experience right now?

No.

Okay.

That's that.

Good.

That's all I wanted.

Cool.

All right.

I guess we're done.

We can be done.

I'm not trying to control you.

It's just so beautiful that if you don't believe in all these terms and you try to find out what really happens if you don't believe in them and you get zero emergency state,

Then maybe all the terms are optional.

Yeah.

If there's no consciousness,

No mind and no spirit and immediately nothing changes,

Well,

It doesn't matter then does it?

Yeah.

Cause you'd have to have a physical experience that told you that something was wrong.

If I said,

Oh,

There's no consciousness.

And all of a sudden I was like going through something.

Well,

That would be different.

But if I go,

There's no consciousness and nothing fucking changes.

Oh,

Well then it's optional to believe it in the first place.

Yeah.

But you do have like an identity and perspective from this body.

You're looking at it and I am the body.

This is what I mean.

This is a huge difference.

And even though it's so subtle,

It's crazy.

People cannot expect that there's actually a body that doesn't have a mind that is alive.

The idea that there's a body that has a language is shocking to people because they want it also to be possessed by a magic ghost.

There's no magic ghost in what you're looking at.

There's nothing that religion ever said that humans ever said that has anything to do with what you're looking at because mom and dad don't try to make anybody.

So all humans ever were just guessing.

I don't know anything for you,

But I know I'm not you.

Right.

Oh,

Hallelujah.

I would not want to be anybody else.

It looks like everyone's stupid as fuck.

I would not want to be anybody.

It looks so painful to be anybody else.

Just nightmare after nightmare of just,

Ah,

It's Monday.

No,

It's not.

I mean,

Everybody's just believing what they were told,

Like,

Oh,

Good for them.

And they're innocent.

Ah,

But I mean,

No way would I want to be anybody else.

That's crazy.

So you,

Whatever you is.

Yeah,

You're looking at it.

I know it's confusing for you because you don't know what you're seeing,

But that's okay.

What?

You didn't have this perspective.

How did this perspective come about in the timeline of you?

Right.

Um,

It never wasn't,

It was never the other way.

I just,

For a small moment,

Took humans more seriously than my own thinking.

And then I stopped doing that.

And it was the same as it was when I was a kid.

Like when you're a kid,

You trust yourself until about four or five,

You like don't even let people tell you what to do.

You try to bite them and they're like 16 times bigger than you are.

And then you start to socialize.

Well,

So there's this window of socialization where,

Oh,

Maybe the humans are right about Jesus and Santa Claus and flags.

And it's like,

After a while,

Like,

Well,

I'll think about that shit all myself.

Oh,

They're wrong as fuck.

So now I quietly just do my thing because how wrong everybody is,

Is too painful to keep hearing about.

So you feel like you've returned to the natural being?

I'm actually alive.

The body is the only thing that's here.

The body,

Of course not.

Only the body exists.

There's nothing in it.

I'm actually alive.

Like I succeeded in exactly what I was looking for.

Was there anything that got you out of all the conditioning that you picked up from socialization or did it just happen spontaneously?

No,

It wasn't.

It was a slow process of like just checking.

It's a lot of like,

Like my answer is the worst answer anyone could imagine.

I thought about it for 20 years.

Like,

Ooh,

I actually sat down and thought about it.

Like I didn't just go,

You know,

Like I was thinking.

I never stopped thinking and included in that with some like journaling.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause the language is the only thing that's actually happening.

All confusion is linguistic.

There's no physical confusion.

So then I'm going to work with the language until there's no physical confusion.

Then last week I had a like the universe flips in and out.

Oh,

It's crazy.

It's fucking crazy.

It's so awesome.

It's like a tube sock,

Right?

Like you take your sock and you have the colors on the outside,

How you would wear it.

Right.

And you put it on the sock inside out.

You still have a sock,

But it's inside out.

And so you don't wear it that way.

Well,

Just imagine that you,

As you think you are can flip inside out.

Gotcha.

So now you have the correct side out.

Well,

Yeah,

It's like the universe contemplated the terror of contemplating itself and found out it could survive it.

Imagine really questioning whether or not you're alive all alone by yourself in a puddle of your own chemical goo.

Holy fuck,

Dude.

Like the worst terror you've ever,

I mean,

It's like the most terrifying thing I've ever felt ever.

It's the scariest fucking thing.

Like ah,

Like the stars are like,

Oh yeah,

You know what?

I might be alive.

Ah,

It's awesome.

It's so awesome.

It's just terrifying.

After contemplation,

You just feel like a,

Well,

Yeah,

Now I'm,

Now I'm where I am because I'm the body.

There's no confusion.

I'm equal to an ant,

A deer,

A tick.

I'm equal to everything in that is naturally alive.

Yeah.

Like you throw sand in my eyes and you throw sand in a tiger's eyes and we both can't see like that kind of equality.

Yeah.

You wouldn't eat me immediately though.

Afterwards.

Probably.

No,

I don't eat human.

I don't touch humans.

They're gross.

I'm a nonsexual like,

Nah,

Nah,

I don't want to,

I've got 20 years of sex.

It's what's wonderful.

I'm done.

Thank you so much.

Enjoy yourselves.

Like I don't want to,

I don't want to touch anybody.

That's so disgusting.

Oh,

So gross.

Oh,

I love that I'm grossed out by the idea of touching a person that makes me laugh so hard.

Is that,

No,

It just,

It just came from wanting happiness.

Gotcha.

Like I want happiness,

You know,

And there's no happiness if you stop and think touching people is awesome.

Cause that means if you're not touching a person,

Then what are you?

Well,

You're doing something else that might be fun or not.

Right.

So dependent happiness.

No,

I didn't want dependent happiness.

I wanted independent happiness.

Don't you think some people can touch people and enjoy it and then stop talking?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

This is the thing that's so important and also common in Western civilization.

I'm never talking about anybody but me.

Gotcha.

Like I imagine a person that loves sex.

I can imagine them all make a lucky them.

Me.

No,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

No,

I don't want to touch anyone.

Male female dog cat.

No thank you.

No,

No,

No,

No.

But that also may change.

Like,

Yeah,

Not really.

No,

I'm at that wonderful spot where I've actually like,

You know,

When you aim for something like,

Have you ever shot an arrow and you're like,

I'm aiming for the bullseye.

I hit the bullseye.

I'm good.

I don't have anything else to do.

I just have to make money and not die yet.

You know,

Like,

Oh,

Who doesn't have to do that?

You don't think your,

Your taste might change?

No.

I just want to address Cassie.

Yes.

We can see your chats.

Sorry.

I was engrossed in questions.

No worries.

I was ignoring.

We're ignoring the populace.

We're sorry,

Friends.

Cassie said,

Wow,

My body's in hyper arousal right now.

Fight or flight.

I think that's when Jack was saying something about non-existing or.

Well,

It doesn't matter.

She said,

I hate the sound of meat for the,

Yeah,

Meat.

It's terrible.

Right?

Cause like,

You know,

You've dug up a corpse before.

Oh shit.

Sorry.

Now I'm talking to her cause I can make videos and talk to other people besides you.

I apologize.

But anyway,

You know,

Like you dig up,

You go to a cemetery,

You dig something up,

You got out,

You got the bones.

You don't have any of the meat,

Right?

The bones aren't going to get up and talk by themselves.

So something about the meat is actually really powerful given how sound works.

You know this because if somebody goes,

Hey,

You're fat,

That sound fat can ruin your fucking day.

And it's just a sound.

So hold on.

Maybe sound really does affect me.

Cassie.

No offense.

Got it.

But well,

The sound,

We've all agreed that the word fat,

The sound fat.

Do we know how it works?

What's that?

Do we know how it works?

How it works?

Do we know how if we hear a certain word,

We're all of a sudden affected?

Do we really know how that works?

Or we just like don't know how that works?

Well,

We've associated that sound with like an image and then people have feelings associated with the image.

Right.

But do we know how it works?

Do we actually know how we believe the sound is correct?

Like try to like say something negative about me now.

Try to really do it too.

And I know we don't know each other and I won't care.

I'll never fight you.

I don't hurt anybody either.

Like it's so beautiful.

Like say something negative about what you see.

Because how could the sound actually affect me unless I decide you're right?

Can you do it?

You have weird teeth.

Yeah,

That's the common one.

And you're right.

Look at these fucking things.

Like you're right.

So now since that's true,

Like how does it affect me?

It doesn't.

If you believe that it's important to not have weird teeth,

You might feel bad.

Right.

Right.

Like you're supposed to be skinny.

You're supposed to have this kind of sexual ability.

You're supposed to have this much money.

Like all the ways that we just go,

I'm going to categorize myself into these little narrow boxes and then I'm going to believe that that box is real other than I just made it up.

What if we just make it up?

What if privately you just make up everything that is you?

And you can change that at any time just by like doing it.

Like when we're.

.

.

I'm going to give you an opposing viewpoint,

Which you probably.

.

.

Oh,

Do it.

Do it.

Oh,

Please.

We're just thinking.

This is not serious.

Yeah.

Isn't there a danger of putting yourself in a state of denial where you're now denying like material things?

No.

Like the doctor says,

Hey,

Your blood pressure's off the charts.

And you're like.

.

.

No,

And here's why.

And this is terrible.

So I want to warn people to get off right now if you don't want to be nervous.

You don't have to survive.

It's not.

.

.

You're not going to and you don't have to.

So now even your own survival is an art project because denial is completely possible.

And only someone who says you can't use denial is the obstacle to denial.

Well,

That person is totally outside their game now.

Now they're talking about somebody else.

So if you can deny anything,

Well,

Yeah.

Of course it works.

You know why it works?

Because there's no past location where we can look for the rest of our lives.

Like where's the rest of my life?

Where's all the other shit you did?

Can I see that right now?

You've lived a whole life,

I would assume,

Whatever that means.

Up until this point,

You've done a bunch of shit,

Including drink water,

Eat,

Have some sex,

Enjoy your life,

Think some thoughts,

Having a bad day.

I can't see any of that at all right now.

If I look at the screen,

Hilarious,

Because you're not a screen.

Oh,

I just poked you in the eye and it didn't hurt.

That's how beautiful this is.

No,

I know,

But it's so funny.

Like the technology is not as cool as we are.

So if your whole life is missing to me on upon observation,

Don't I just make it up that you had one?

What about like,

All right,

So let's say,

Because like,

So my example,

You said if you're survival isn't like mandatory,

You're like,

No,

No,

No.

Well,

I won't survive.

I mean,

That's the joke.

I do die.

I mean,

I'm not so silly that I don't die.

I die.

I just haven't died yet.

What about the potential for less happiness by denying certain cause and effect things?

Like if you,

To go back to a health thing,

Like,

Oh,

If you do this,

This is what's going to happen to your body and you decide to deny that idea.

But the problem only exists privately.

Right?

Like,

If you deny,

Let's say you deny that you like to do anything that hurts you.

Eventually you're dying alone with all the stuff you did that causes that.

But still,

When is it a problem?

If it's just the way it is.

It'd be like saying that life itself was a problem because we die.

But because we die,

That can't be true.

Otherwise I'd be saying everything we've ever experienced is a fucking nightmare on purpose.

That's not true.

Life is beautiful.

I just don't get to remember what happened.

Oh,

It's awesome.

So I think it's the difference between living here and living tomorrow though.

Gotcha.

Like,

If I want a signature legacy in the future,

Oh,

I'm fucked.

I hope people remember to say my name.

No,

That's crazy.

Could it be fun though to take on that finite game?

Yes,

Yes,

Absolutely.

You can Matt Damon,

David Blaine,

Fucking Laird Hamilton,

You can Metallica.

You can fully take people's money.

Fully.

Just will it be interesting?

Is that it?

You take their money.

Is that it?

Are you the most interesting thing in the world now?

Because they pay you.

I don't believe it.

Is your.

.

.

You're not more interesting than a tiger.

No human alive is more interesting than a grizzly bear.

None.

Zero.

Great white shark.

None.

Polar bear.

None.

Zero.

No animal.

Because they don't need all the shit humans think they need,

That they destroy their own home for.

No.

I'll take a fucking dog over a human any day.

But you wouldn't touch them still.

Nope.

They're gross.

Oh,

Dude.

Big old fankly fucking germ-fested.

Would you say.

.

.

I'm trying to understand your philosophy.

I guess that's my main.

.

.

If I had motivation.

.

.

Sure,

Sure,

Sure,

Sure.

Well,

We're learning together.

You might walk away and go,

This sucked.

And that's okay.

I mean,

That's the beauty of not having anything for sale.

I just can only represent me.

Would you say your philosophy is finding the most interesting thing to do with yourself?

No.

I couldn't tell you what to do.

That would be my philosophy.

I don't have a recommendation for you.

That's my philosophy.

Does that make sense?

Because you're you.

You're you.

You're so you,

I don't have anything I can do about it.

So now I don't have a philosophy for you at all.

That makes no sense.

In fact,

I'm more interested to see what you really do once you find out no one does.

Like,

Who are you when there's no philosophy for you but what you decide?

To me,

That's like,

Wow,

Who's that guy?

Who's the guy that finally goes,

Fuck the humans?

Do you have a philosophy that you would boil into anything?

No,

Not really.

Because nobody remembers anything anybody says.

Like biology,

Biology trumps all cultures.

So whatever.

For yourself even though?

No.

Any guidelines?

No,

No,

No,

Just no.

I mean,

I've tried everything so far.

You know,

Like be responsible for myself,

Pay my own way kind of thing.

That's the only philosophy I have.

But even there,

I don't always do it.

So I mean,

I haven't always done it.

But right now I am.

I just wouldn't want to be a burden.

You know,

I didn't make children because there's only one way to actually save lives like doctors,

Firefighters,

Police officers,

Soldiers aside,

No offense,

Guys,

There's only one way to actually save a life and that's not to make it.

So I've done that.

And for me,

That's the only ethical human puzzle.

Don't make children and you save billions of lives considering that everybody was roughly made by the first two people to make one person.

I mean,

It's so bizarre.

You get into like bestiality at some point if you really think about it.

You got a Neanderthal chimpanzee crossover.

You know,

Like,

So for me,

That's it.

The red,

That's the only human component for my life.

And the rest is like trying not to be an asshole and trying to make the world a little more playful.

Why though?

Just because it's fun.

Oh,

Because otherwise what do I do?

Kill myself?

I mean,

Yeah,

Of course.

Cause it's fun.

I'm trying.

I mean,

I just want to make life interesting for me.

Cool.

Yeah,

No,

No.

Nobody's going to remember.

There's no legacy.

Like this is so opposite of school.

Like school makes it so that we think,

Oh wow,

I'm finally going to turn in my final report before I die.

Like that's not true at all.

We're just going to do shit and then die.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Nobody remembers.

Oh my God.

How much,

How much more shit can you do right now?

Knowing it means nothing.

I got to pee.

I guess the dog,

The dog Oracle though.

Uh,

We're probably going to close up a little bit after Jack stopped peeing.

So if you guys have any questions,

You can type them in the chat box.

You can hit the ask question button and I will ask him the question.

And this has definitely been the most unique interview that I've done and I've done many.

So thanks for being on.

Also while we wait,

I'm curious like how you guys found that this was happening.

Cause I didn't,

I actually,

We were supposed to do it last Friday.

Uh,

Had a mix up at the time.

Um,

Ended up doing it now.

I mean,

It was just surprising.

Oh,

When people are on the left.

Sweet.

Uh,

The Democrat says cats and fire are the only spiritual things Jack Saturday.

I guess that's part of a statement.

All right.

All right.

Well,

I'm just telling everybody while you're gone that this was definitely the most unique interview I've done.

But,

Uh,

Yeah,

I just wanted to ask a question that Cassie actually is a bin.

Is this joy?

It seems there's a big fight against duality.

Joy.

Interesting.

Joy would be the premise that it wasn't you.

So right now,

Right now you must,

Well,

Okay.

Not just you too,

Right dude.

So it's cause she asked the question.

So now I do the double.

So like right now you must be joy because it's independent of anything being a particular way.

If you have dependent joy,

Guess what you need.

You need that other fucking thing.

So reminding people that choose independent joy.

Well I don't know.

See,

This is the thing.

Like your question kind of comes down to how do I pinhole a particular aspect of me,

But I don't have that need.

So I would say for you.

Yeah,

Cool.

If that works for you,

But it doesn't matter what people remember to me.

Gotcha.

This is the weird thing about my meetings about comp.

Like people don't get it.

Like this is a guy who doesn't need me at all.

Like it's so weird to talk to somebody that's not secretly trying to sell you shit at all.

Like it's like,

What?

This is useless.

And that's actually the best part is when someone goes,

I don't need to talk to you.

And it's like,

Yes,

You don't.

You're already who you are.

Oh,

I lost the sound.

How'd I lose the sound?

Are you off?

Okay,

There we go.

I might be crying baby in the background.

So we're actually going to wrap up in a second.

But I was just saying it was like so hard to research like who are you?

Because you do put out a lot of media like many people do.

Like a lot of vlog type stuff,

Which usually comes with advice.

They usually can be generalized for other people.

They usually sell something to support the person and that's how many people live.

Yes give me please give me your money.

Give me your money.

I mean I play that game.

Oh yeah,

It's the best game in the world.

A free world that's for sale.

Yeah.

Yeah,

So awesome.

What a great use of our intelligence.

I enjoyed it.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Good,

Good,

Good.

Hallelujah.

Yeah,

Well that was it I guess.

Good,

So it is very refreshing.

I was really interested to see if you played a character or actually lived it.

And it's really cool to see that you live it.

Like there's nothing that changes from what I gather.

Unless you're performing right now and I wouldn't know.

Well I wouldn't know either and for me when people go you're just like your videos to me it's like great then I must not be fucking bullshit.

Like if somebody meets me live and they're like you're just like your videos it's like yes great,

Great.

I fucked up with the whole project that whole Doogie Howser project of film yourself evolving.

Like fuck yeah I want to be who I am but I would also not believe a thing personally.

Just because you know why believe anybody because you don't need them in the first place.

It's like if Santa Claus were real he would be good enough.

We could all just believe in Santa Claus the rest of our life and we'd be like it's all good.

But Santa Claus isn't good enough.

A guy who just gives gifts to people you know like no that guy's not good enough I need something else.

I need Jesus the Spanish guy from the Middle East.

I need Mohammed I need Krishna.

You know what I mean like we're so fucking crazy we're like the cutest species ever.

We surround ourselves with toys to try to feel better about something that won't even remember.

You're going to die.

Think of who you can't live without remembering you.

They're not gonna.

Oh that's so relaxing isn't it?

Yeah well they're going to die too.

All this importance all this preciousness is just fake.

It's so beautiful that every Academy Award winner dies and every Nobel Peace winner dies and it's like this is so funny that humans are so important to each other given all the other creatures are right there and they don't need to wear clothes or have a house.

You're over it.

I love it.

That's perfect.

Well no it's perfect it's perfect.

It's perfect.

It's perfect.

And you're not going to plug anything I know.

Oh yeah I am.

So I'm available for ten thousand dollars a month to live in your house and change your world but only ten thousand and you have to give me a room.

Cool.

I also want to suggest I mean you could ask for it.

No it's hilarious I'm kidding I'm fucking kidding.

Well I just hope everybody has a beautiful day being like who the fuck do you need.

Yeah well I thought your videos are interesting so I will post a few along because I interviewed if you just go to YouTube and search for Benjamin Smythe or Jack Saturday.

No no I'm kidding I'm kidding.

No you're doing all sorry I forget sometimes other people are running businesses I promise I want to respect I want to respect your phenomena.

It's fun to talk with you though you're fun.

Yeah yeah you're fun too.

Yeah dude that tapestry behind you is super cosmic.

Yeah I dig it.

It's not my idea to tell us.

No I like it.

She's rad tell her I said hello.

Yeah will do.

All right well thanks Jack.

Yeah yeah whatever that was I love you have fun.

Bye.

Bye.

Thanks for listening.

Don't forget to subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher and if you want to be a part of the virtual audience for future episodes make sure to follow me at crowdcast.

Io slash Rwanda.

See you next time.

Bye.