007 Saint Woo: Are Spirits A Thing?

Hello.

Today we have a unique kind of episode.

Today's guest is Saint Wu.

She's a secular witch and researcher of occult things and particularly one who speaks to entities of different sorts,

Spirits and other non-physical beings.

And I wanted to bring her on because I do meet a lot of people who are into like the really woo-woo mystical stuff and you know some people might say that like what I do is mystical.

I mean I could see that as well.

I certainly play with concepts that aren't provable but I think are workable specifically around sexual energy.

And I think it's normal when you come across something beyond your world for you to reject it.

Like when people talk to me usually about like talking to spirits or angels or whatever I usually just think like alright they are probably misguided.

They're probably misinterpreting information.

Maybe they're crazy but ultimately that's not a useful like perspective to take when you meet someone who has a different worldview.

All of us just have models of reality and this is something that I think about a lot and is really important to me because I was raised in a multi-faith household.

My mom's Catholic,

My dad's Buddhist and they both they tried to raise me up with both religions at the same time.

And if you know anything about the two religions they're quite opposite in certain explanations of the universe.

So as a small child I was getting opposite information from adults and that led me to being a hardcore atheist for a while rejecting anything that wasn't provable by science.

But I ultimately realized as kind of like a spiritually weak or like empty way to view the world because a lot of useful information in both religions and all religions and all world views.

And when you can learn how to like incorporate these models you could pick out like really useful nuggets like whether or not Jesus was a messiah he said a lot of cool things supposedly in this Bible.

Same thing with Buddha,

Same thing with pretty much every religious figure.

So when I come across someone with like a worldview that's not my worldview I either try to like translate what they're saying into some sort of metaphor that's useful or translate into any other grounded understanding.

Because just because someone has different beliefs doesn't mean that they're an idiot or that you're smarter than them or anything.

So coming across this today's guest St.

Wu.

She was telling me about her experiences with entities with a bit of like fear,

Fear of my judgment.

And I was really paying attention to the way she was speaking about it and I found it really interesting that she spoke about it quite rationally even though she was speaking about experiences that I didn't really,

That didn't really fit what I was experiencing.

So in this interview I really wanted to understand her model of reality.

I can say afterwards I still don't fully buy the idea that they're like spirits that float around you can talk to.

But I do believe that it's possible that my belief systems limited.

There's been many times in my life that I realized that I was missing out on something in terms of perspective.

So I'll let you listen and decide for yourself.

I will say I've had certain experiences in my life particularly with plant medicines or other hallucinogens that I could look back and reinterpret as like oh maybe an angel was talking to me.

At the time I thought I was just having an auditory hallucination or I was having a burst of creative inspiration but who knows maybe a dragon was in my ear.

I have no idea.

You decide for yourself.

A real interesting lady.

This is episode 007 St.

Wu.

Are spirits and entities a thing?

You're listening to the Ruwando podcast,

Perpetual Orgasm Infinite Play.

Please subscribe on iTunes and enjoy the show.

All right we're live.

Sweet.

Hello Iris.

Hello Ru.

All right so I just want to,

You know,

I've been eager to have this conversation and I want to preface it with a couple things.

I've said this to you already.

I'm pretty skeptical about this topic even though I am very interested in mysticism and all that.

Even when we first met a few months ago I was kind of skeptical when you spoke.

One reason why I wanted to speak to you about this is that,

Well I'll just say this.

I've had experiences with things that I could call entities but only in altered states like under plant medicine or during sleep paralysis and I've always interpreted to be like,

Oh these are things in my subconscious that I'm able to see more clearly or personify externally because I'm on a drug or because my mind is in a dream state or something.

Then I spoke to you,

That's always been my thought when people talk about entities.

Then I spoke to you and you would say things about very specific interactions you've had with entities and how they would say things that are totally not your personality.

So I was like,

All right maybe she's schizophrenic or maybe not.

But also like how they gave you like kind of good advice about things.

You have like these kind of extended relationships which made me think,

Okay maybe there's something to this more than just the skeptical view that this is just the subconscious whatever.

And then I spoke with Sean Shitty who's a psychotherapist working with plant medicine,

His take on entities.

He's got a more skeptical view also just like it could be a spirit,

It could be your subconscious firing off in a weird way.

This is all to say I'm curious to know your perspective although I may not agree with all of it but I really want to understand because I find this fascinating.

So thanks for having this discourse with me.

Well I gotta say I was actually very surprised when of all things that was one of the things that you were the most skeptic about because it seemed to me that out of anybody that I might have met you might have been the one most blessed by some of them.

And the way that you have so much abundance and freedom it just seemed like if anybody's gonna have some sort of companion it's gonna be Ruth.

It's funny you mentioned that because when I was a teenager and I first got into like spirituality and I was very depressed and like in really dark places I did like to imagine and you just said you don't talk about angels but I used to like imagine like oh maybe I've had like an awesome guardian angel that's like pulling me through this or like when random good fortune would happen.

It's nice to think about but I honestly never fully believed in it.

So I'm most interested in hearing like your specific like how do you how do we know it's real for instance?

Okay that's that's a really good question actually.

I've had a couple friends now that have actually come out of the woo closet too and told them about this stuff too and I've had a couple different friends who well you know they put me to the test so to speak.

So how do we know I'm not crazy?

Well you've known me for months now and you've known me to have my moments but it's always been you know regular human breakdowns.

It's never been anything where I've just been you know spouting off in multiple different languages so you know I'm a lucid intelligent individual.

You've been able to see that many a time.

I thought maybe a slip personality.

A slip personality would have been interesting if you like to keep up with the medical journals which I do because I actually got accepted out to a school in University sorry University out in Australia to become a naturopathic doctor.

There are a lot of free journals out there that you can follow and most of them do happen to agree that split personalities the way that maybe that one movie split show very rare.

Hardly any actual instances of them being like that.

So a split personality would be very difficult now what would be much more believable schizophrenia for sure.

But I've had the both the pleasure and displeasure of meeting an actual schizophrenic.

It's not what you think.

You can't hide that.

I mean he's constantly talking to himself.

He's completely neglected his body.

You can't be anywhere near him without seeing actual symptoms of his condition.

So any visible symptoms that I would have had or any psychological symptoms that I would have had at this point should have been caught by anybody.

Anybody should have been able to see any of them especially because I do get regular checkups with a doctor for other health purposes.

Otherwise I probably would have invited you here.

Yeah so for the most part you know I'd like to think I'm not crazy but you start to learn when you become and I am a witch not just you know somebody who talks to these entities that there's a fine line that you're always crossing between insanity and sanity when it comes to dealing with the woo world.

You will constantly cross over and a lot of the so-called fluffy witches which I'm not downing on them I'm just using the term that they use tend to avoid walking in the opposite direction of that line because it is kind of a hard line for you yourself to recognize.

At times I have myself thought like oh my god what if this is all just in my head but you're right.

You mentioned a couple of things too where I've gotten good advice for multiple different situations that I myself had come to you for and couldn't come up with a reason myself and then here comes somebody else and they gave me perfect absolutely you know answer for whatever the situation at hand was.

Because a bunch of times where I was like coaching you for instance I would say something to you and then you would say oh like this demon just said the same thing to me or something like that it's just like what like yeah or were you just like so like my skeptical mind is like was she anticipating what I might say and then she personified it as like some entity like or is there some being because I want to say and there's so many directions I'd like a million follow-up questions to what you just said but yeah I'm thinking about experiences I've had that could have been a spirit right that I didn't interpret as that like I remember one time I was like in a very like transy state I was in a hot bath it was dark and I would like her like very clear what I would call an auditory hallucination of what was like pretty good advice so I could I interpreted it as like well a part of me wants to think it was the voice of God but then another part of me is like well maybe it was just something that my subconscious is coming to realize on my own and I was finally in a quiet enough state where my mind was slow and my I was in more of a theta wave state of my brain where I could actually hear what my subconscious was saying and that's all it was but you're saying it could have been it could have been either or it could have been either or there's the beauty to that is that the only true way to recognize if it is from you or if it is from something outside of you is to know yourself and I know that's a weird thing to say considering all the stuff that I you know we've been working on together but there's there's a tone that you use with yourself there always is a tone there's a vocabulary that you use with yourself some people will think in pictures other people think in concepts other people think in actual languages that they were born with not that they learned you know whenever I go to you speak to somebody in Spanish I automatically translated but if I'm trying to speak to somebody in French I have to think in English to translate it to French even though Spanish was my first language so the concept of knowing yourself is the biggest tool you're gonna have to recognizing whether something is definitely not you as you said a lot of the things that you heard me say we're not in a tone that belonged to me at all they were completely different I suppose personalities if you want to say that that is one of the best ways that I've come to learn to recognize whether I am speaking to you know inner me or if I am speaking to something else entirely and that is the one thing that has been agreed upon with most witches is that anytime that you do end up encountering any sort of entity they all have their own personality doesn't matter if you're talking to you know let's say you're talking to one of the demons from the Ars Goetia and it's got in there you know this is the type of individual that you're gonna be talking to and then you might go in there and talk to that person and find out that they're a lot more personable than the book says it they are it just everybody's got their good days their bad days and their own personalities no matter what species or age group okay so could you tell us a little bit about your specific experiences like what do you experience that has you know that this is some this is some thing like how do you how are you able to describe whatever demon dragon whatever you're experiencing sure I guess the first thing and again disclaimer there's a few things that I'm gonna be talking about that are just out there for all intents and purposes for all intents and purposes if you don't want to believe this nobody's forcing it upon you just because you've heard this doesn't mean you're now indoctrinated into this sect or anything like that so there are a lot of things out there that we've been led to believe that were just fairy tales you know myths and that they are in fact real a lot of them extremely close to the tales that we passed down from generation to generation some of them way off base I've run into a good variety a good variety of many different entities and have come to learn that the biggest tool and helping you to get along with any of them is don't think like a human as weird as that sounds we approach the world and everything around us in a very human centric way to where we believe we're the center of the universe basically because we think there's nothing else out there so why would we act or think and otherwise if you approach them with the level of respect that you approach a professor in a category that you've never even looked into you're gonna have a much better experience well first I understand like what was your first experience with an otherworldly being like how did you know like what did you see it did you hear it like did it whisper in your ear like what are the specifics well the first few interactions that I had were not visual they were anything but rather you see I used to get into trouble a lot as a little kid trouble that you know little girls shouldn't be getting into and somehow I always ended up knowing exactly what to do despite the fact that I was maybe six years old and didn't even know what that word meant you know it would be a combination of things as a child if somebody were to tell you it's like very complex thing you wouldn't understand it but if you get a feeling like this is bad run you're gonna act on it even if you don't recognize why you're acting on it so my first experiences were when I was a child and there were some not very good situations that I got pulled into and I remember every single time being told exactly what to do and one of them was run grab your brother and run and I did and we ran and everybody asked me you know what it sounds like it wasn't a bad situation why'd you take off you know what happened and all I could say was I just felt like it but I didn't know why so most of the interactions when I was little were feelings that I didn't exactly understand why they were being thrown at me all of a sudden but they could not be ignored it was like an instinct so as I grew I started recognizing that I knew things but I didn't know how I would know who was gonna call on the phone I would know what episode of which TV was gonna which TV show was gonna be on TV next I would even be able to make jokes about my little brother and know exactly what joke he was going to come up with the next day it was very strange and I just knew things but I didn't think anything of it I thought everybody could do it it wasn't until after my first marriage was dissolved well dissolving rather that I started to think you know maybe there was something to this and I actually ended up oh I don't know if it was one of them I actually never asked meeting my first being I saw her pretty recent that you've like met a being um I want the first being you mean yeah actually I want to say that one was about six six or seven years ago now okay gotcha and so how do you know that that wasn't just intuition like a lot of I mean or what like are you saying that all all like synchronicity things where you think of someone they call or like you know it's almost about to say like are you saying that that's like an entity whispering in your ear or is it just like synchronous through the universe like how do you know it's a being well I know that the first few experiences were not me because there were concepts that I would never understand a child does not understand the concept of rape but I understood what was happening completely and I acted on what I was being told to do but as I was growing I had less and less interactions that were like that instinctual that were just there I suddenly just knew knowledge and so the way I saw it is it kind of does change and warp as you grow you know with some people who could do things as kids and they grow up they can't do them anymore it just kind of goes away so it can just go away one day and all of a sudden yeah you're just intuitive all of a sudden you just know these little things like that but how weird is it when you're having two or three synchronicities every single day for all of your teenage life yeah it kind of gets to you but it's still like how do you know it's like a thing like I mean I know either way we're talking about like a woo ish concept but like how do you know it was like an entity and not just like download from the universe or however like other people might put it you could see it in many different ways in fact in many cultures a lot of these beings are actually seen as the laptop to the internet connection that is the universe it is their job to download this information to you it is their job to interpret this information in a way that you're gonna get it so so I'm just like trying to like fit all the models like into like a worldview that makes sense because like for instance like with the idea of sex transmutation like very simply my understanding of it is I when activated in a certain way things that are not your conscious mind come to you like to me that's like sensation moving up like a brilliant idea a sentence that you wouldn't have thought of on your own just like pops into your head I would to me that's like creativity we are saying it's or one way to interpret it is a dragon tells you to write this it can definitely be I mean there are multiple historical references to beings being the cause for many things like the muses the muses were attributed to many of the art that we have back in the old Hellenistic days but you could see it either way you could either see it as something giving you this knowledge or as an actual being sorry as you being directly connected to the universe it kind of varies from person to person so is it kind of like a choice or style like like for instance with hallucinogens if you were raised Christian you're much more likely to see the Virgin Mary yeah while on mushrooms right like someone who's never had a concept of Mary's not gonna see that maybe they'll see some other female figure like that there's the like archetype of the goddess that is in every culture or even like like like the Joseph Campbell view I like the Monmouth like you perhaps I don't know this is just one interpretation you perhaps read a lot about entities growing up so that when it comes to these like hard to grasp concepts you personify it as different entities whereas like some like me who didn't really grow up with that maybe just things like oh I'm just getting I could download from it is that what you're saying is it is it like I've been talking to entities I just been not seeing their form and just it's yeah it's actually a very very good way of putting it because the cultural aspects that you are raised with will heavily influence what you perceive up to a point because there's a point in time where the the wool is up and off and you can no longer you know deny oh that is not the Virgin Mary the Virgin Mary wouldn't have big wings and horns like that no you you start getting accustomed to them and then they start showing themselves more and more of themselves to you it just it does vary how do you know that they this whatever entity has wings and horns and it's not you personify it in a way that makes sense to you one way is for a lot of folks it is a preference they some of these entities will take forms that are easier for you to handle for example in the Bible do you realize that almost every time that an angel has shown itself to a human they say be not afraid and I'm not here to hurt you it's because they don't look like what we think they do the first few images that we used to see of angels were nothing human in the least they were freaking terrifying and they had to tell us be not afraid and then they would be able to take a form that our mind could handle so it's very similar with a lot of entities they will take forms that you can handle if they're being you know benevolent or just neutral or just passing by you know some of them will just test you and see how much you're willing to take because with some of these entities your own personal power is a big deal and them choosing whether they want to even put up with you or not so what do you mean by that well for example in India there are these things called Devatas they are seen as almost like divine mini goddesses and they are beautiful they are feminine they can fly and then they are inspiring and helpful to whomever they wish to they are like the nymphs yes but they're not considered nymphs is it fair to say that they're the same thing just interpreted in India differently than they were in ancient Greece they can definitely be seen that way yes because let's say I've never actually met a one of those I've met a Vana Devata which I believe is a earth deity like nymph and they were very different very different from what an actual nymph that I was you know under the impression of we're supposed to be like nymphs to me were sexy things I just wanted to sex everything and sex sex this sex sex that and this Vana Devata was like yo chill bro I just want to be here and chill with the plants it was very very different you end up running into different cultures different subspecies and some of them are only willing to work with you if you're worth their time okay so how how does one so let's say someone listens to this something for myself too I all right let's say take on the model of belief that entities are there I want to obviously live the best life that I have in this incarnation maybe I want to like maybe I want to use a life hack and like you know get on board with some of these entities like instead of taking alpha-brain or drinking coffee like I could befriend one of these folks to help me I mean you even said like oh maybe I was maybe I have some sort of partnership I'm not aware of how does one start what does one do is that a bad way to look at it like like self-serving Lee is that like a negative thing that they don't like I'm trying to understand um again personalities will vary because I'm fairly sure any demon is willing to take you up on that offer and just really you're yeah I'll give you whatever you want give me your soul though and so you do want to be and constantly I cannot say this enough to anybody who asked be careful because just like with humans you're gonna meet bad people who seem like they have good intentions and you're gonna meet really really bad people who don't care about what their intentions look like so they entities have been around for thousands and thousands of years they know the ins and outs and a lot of them have been dealing with humans for a very long time some of them really don't like us what you want to do do your research do your research as to well what is it that I want to change in my life now let's say that I do want to suddenly become much better at sex maybe then I do want to get involved with a nymph somebody would say well why not a succubus aren't they all about sex well if you do your research you know that the succubus kills their victims so they're in the lies of a difference if you do your research you start recognizing that we have myths about specific creatures because they have a bad rapport with humans succubi and incubi for the most part have fed off of us for the entire existence of either of us but nymphs on the other hand do have a lot of lore where they were helpful or neutral so you do want to go and look for things that humans still have good stories about you know that you can have for the most part the mythology that most of us to you as entertainment are you're saying correlates to the reality of these beings that are like for the most part not 100% but it's a great starting point because you will start recognizing patterns patterns across the stories and then you'll start looking at actually you'll start feeling you'll start feeling a call inside of you like back when I was younger I didn't give you know anything for nymphs or dragons I didn't care about any of that but I love dogs I freaking love dogs they were my favorite creature my favorite animal ever and lo and behold I ended up running into a wolf type entity that was a pretty big deal just to leave it there and whereas I probably should have paid my proper respect and proper do I instead was just like oh who's a tiny puppy oh you're just so adorable and blah blah blah and oddly enough because this one this one instance because I gave it nothing but affection and love and I was just keen on meeting it as opposed to you know coming after it for something I think this is the reason why I didn't just chop my head off and just make off with my spirit but it actually be like if it did what would it look like would you just be like would your family just find you dead the next day and like oh she just died in her sleep like what is that actually that does take many interesting forms depending on what creature you work with because some of them will just make you look like you're sick and dying and like the wasting diseases it were no doctor can figure out what's going on with you even though there's absolutely nothing showing that's hurting you wasting diseases are caused by entities a lot of the times sudden infant death syndrome since that has been one of the biggest things caused by entities miscarriages a lot of the times they can be caused by entities to me there's a human factor to it as well but you know a perfectly healthy mom a perfectly healthy fetus and all of a sudden just one day baby's dead with absolutely no warning no problem yeah sometimes they do kind of end up happening where they can physically affect us but a lot of the times they'll just make us die in different ways you know you'll waste away slowly your mind where we'll be worn down to shreds depending on their personality if they want to kill you low and slow they will but a lot of them don't have the wherewithal to be able to physically destroy your body but they will do everything but that just to make sure that you suffer before you actually meet your end most people end up being driven insane hmm I'm wondering now it's like I feel like this is this is dangerous territory whether it's true or not even dangerous to indulge in this thinking like like even even as like some people like oh this person cast a spell on me or this break like all this stuff like there I see there's a danger of entering like a victim this but then also I don't know I feel a little confused I will how I interpret all of us to be honest yeah up to this point it's just been whimsical stories about the good stuff that I've ended up doing with them you'd never gotten to go say any of the bad so you kind of had a little bit of a biased opinion up to this point right I've always thought this is like when you've told me stories about entities I'm like this is Iris's worldview this is her reality whether there's something there or not this is what she's experiencing and that's what makes it real enough to interact with mm-hmm that's that's just that's been my my view on it and anytime anyone presents something to me that I think is like it's just outside of my reality that's how I look at it like this is their reality and let me interact with them there oh like I said it is dangerous that is the reason why most of the time witches were the only ones who dealt with this in fact a lot of the times if there were any children who were found who had these abilities they were adopted by the local shaman or the local witch or whoever to train this person so that they knew what they were getting into and how to protect themselves and a lot of this stuff was given away for free to you know the local villages etc you know hey put iron over the crib of your baby so the fairies don't get him etc etc because we did used to have a lot more interaction with them then but nowadays we don't nearly as much and so it's a rare few whoever do ever whoever do end up interacting with these entities but as I said it is the same type of danger as being in the human world there are good and there are bad if you approach this world knowing that there's bad and then you will have to learn how to defend yourself against it it's no different than walking I don't know into Detroit wearing a couple bags of money on your back you know getting yourself into but you also probably carried a couple pieces in your pocket to make sure that you did not get you know Jack while you're walking in Detroit you have to be careful and you have to pay respect to the fact that there are myths that try to guide you as to what you're getting it you know some of them tell you fairies hate iron that's absolutely true they do hate iron some of them tell you you know if you don't want to end up running into certain creatures don't walk under these mysterious circumstances like don't walk into a ring of mushrooms or don't go out into the middle of the night into the woods but naked and cover yourself in the blood of a baby yeah don't do stupid things you won't run into stupid situations okay um okay so how would someone start to perceive these things like I'm still I still I'm still half and half right like I'm like you know everything you're saying it makes it has a logic but I have it other than like being on mushrooms or plant medicine or sleep paralysis like I haven't actually I mean to be fair I have had quite a few experiences like playing with astral projection and feeling like something was touching me I just assumed I was imagining it so anyway so aside from substances how would start to perceive such a thing won't be is defined by many a thing when you remember I the first thing I said was do not approach this as with a human mentality because you will run into different definitions for what we think perceive you can either visually perceive you can audibly perceive heck for some people you can perceive with taste and scent you know like smelling your dead grandmother's perfume every time that you're you know coming close to her anniversary you have different methods of perceiving them and for each person there's one or two different methods that work best for you for example not everybody is ever going to be able to you know with hard work and dedication see but most people do have at least one method that they can use to be able to perceive the question is how do you find that method how do you find your way of perceiving them yeah the one thing that I did was I began to experiment with all of the five sentences I wanted to see what became the most easy to wield for me obviously I wanted to see first and foremost but tries that my I never saw anything I tried the tips and the tricks and I couldn't get anything but at this start noticing that I was able to feel temperature changes I was able to feel strange like walking into a swarm of static you know the snow that you get a TV I started running into different tactile sensations that had absolutely no snow source so I went with that one and I started to experiment with that one somebody told me everything has its own energy find the energy learn what it is tell the difference and I said sure why not so I started closing my eyes and I started to try to feel for the energy of things let me use an example I have a dog that's completely black and if I turn off the lights I can tell you where he is now I could do that by hearing him breathing but if you used earplugs and you had you know your eyes closed and you made sure that that dog was asleep how would you sense for that dog have you ever felt like you were being watched just just the weird sensation where you didn't even think about it but you turn around mm-hmm that's a way for you that's one of your sensations being activated and whenever you have a chance and this is one that anybody can do turn off the lights make sure it's pitch black in there and try to touch your fingertips together from both hands in the darkness you know where your hands are you know how close your fingertips are you might miss by a few centimeters but most of the time you know where your hands are that is the type of perception that you end up using in the nighttime where you recognize that objects are near you without being able to actually see them and that's how I ended up training my first ability was essentially proprioception applied beyond your body yes you want to send that sensation outwards kind of like echolocation you wanted to bounce back to you from things and it's easiest to work with things that actually have a stronger energy signature like a living creature like a dog or like a friend just have them stand anywhere in the room and see how close you feel them being to you and just have them gradually move around and say all right you're over there by the light switch okay oh no you're over there by the closet now oh no you're you're right behind me now you'll start noticing that you are much more capable of locating them the more you practice so that was the first practice that I did and I got very good with it eventually I started moving on up to more complicated sensations like differentiating the sensation between a female and a male in the same room or I used to get a couple of things like crystals like live physical things right people not just not just I had my dog I had my dog and I got a chance to work with a couple of friends but I turned it into a game so they didn't even know that we were you know doing psychic practice I'm just like hey how about some hide-and-seek I'm gonna go turn off the lights a little bit fun yeah it's interesting cuz like so I've kind of metaphorically taken this idea proprioception like sensing where your body is in space like with sex for instance I feel like when you're really connected with another person you can feel where they are at all times you can feel what feels good to them it's like you've absorbed them into your body so that you're now one body same thing with like driving even like if you've driven a lot in New York City at a certain point like you can just like your the car becomes like the rest of your body and you don't to look where the car is you sense where it is you start to sense we're like other cars are in space with all the little timing and stuff which could be you notice is not even a mystical concept it's just like you become more attuned to your environment but you're saying like that same principle can now be applied to these not immaterial beings because right they don't have any matter to them right no though to a to an extent for some people they don't rather for certain people who have the Claire tangents I think it's what it called there's a lot of Claire abilities but there's one where you do not see you do not feel you feel emotionally or energetically you physically feel you reach your hands out you're gonna touch the butt of a dragon or whatever you're you're running up against those some of these abilities are a lot more rare than others but it happens it happens and it was like there's a whole thing like I used to get sleep paralysis like every other day when I was a teenager I think so I was just emotionally distraught all the time I don't know if that's the reason maybe I was just being visited by spirits a lot but like there's the thing we're like if you Wikipedia sleep paralysis they have a picture like an incubus sitting on your chest because a lot of people when they're under that they feel like they can't breathe someone's like holding their nose up I felt that a lot but I just figured that's just the thing you know that's just in my head right but I every time I'm sleep proud paralyzed I feel like I can't breathe like something's holding my nose or something but perhaps so there's one of my nose well for a lot of the sleep paralysis instances it's not well I can't say a lot I want to say not every instance is due to an entity the the physical trigger for sleep paralysis is your brain wakes up but your body does not and so all of a sudden you are imagine you were never a physical being imagine you were always just thought and you floated through the air at all time and all of a sudden you got trapped into this flesh and bone body and it's heavy and it's weird and you don't know what you're doing that's basically what you're doing you're being your essence is feeling what your body is because you're never aware of your body just like you're never aware that your nose is in front of your face you're never aware of your body now that your body's been shut down and you have absolutely no ability to move it you're much more aware of how much that weighs you're aware of your mass of your substance of how hard it is to actually move your lungs to inhale so it's very freaky it's a very freaky experience if you don't accept it you'll be scared and you will see scary things because you begin to panic and your mind is awake you're able to not rationalize the way the things that you're seeing if you are not scared if you realize oh yeah dude this is cool now I can do blank like from sleep paralysis is usually the first step to astral projection you get excited about it it becomes less scary and it becomes a lot more welcome and more manageable and you start noticing that it's not that you can't breathe it's just that you're sleeping heavily so your breathing is even now it's not the everyday active breathing that you're doing it's a different pattern and so you're not not breathing you're still breathing yeah I've always found sleep even before I believed anything close to astral projection or anything like that I've always been interested in sleep paralysis even though I was always terrified because I would have my eyes open for instance I'd hear what was actually going on but also have like a dream overlay it's like I knew there's not someone maybe there was someone walking around in my room but I would like wake up and like oh like that didn't actually happen but I saw the actual furniture where it was or I would see the furniture in the wrong colors if I was like looking or something and every time I was like oh like why don't I just like play with that and like go into it but I always feel like if I stay too long I'll suffocate because like I'm running out of air so that's why the most part I have it although I was just I just read this book do you know adventures beyond the body by William Bowman hmm I have a lot of books on astral projection I'm not sure if that one's one of them okay it was recommended to me by someone who's just as skeptical as me so it's like all right let me read this book and yeah it's like pretty like clear exercises how to leave and this one time I sat up and I was also reading another book on sexual alchemy about like taking on spirit lovers and as soon as I sat up I felt like hands touching me I was like I don't know if I want to be here so right back that was my last out-of-body experience half of my body was out the other half I think my legs were still whatever anyway yeah so many things to explore in this in this thing category yeah category yeah yeah okay so um you were asking you know how do you start to perceive was that you know like I said you you start with your strongest point basically your strongest character and then from there on once you like like like I I get what I would call auditory hallucinations which I just think it's me being creative and like hearing something from my subconscious but maybe all those times someone was speaking it could be it could be for a lot of a lot of us doesn't matter what country we're born what kind of family we were born into Christian poor rich etc almost all of us have at least one sort of guide and whether they do or do not interact with us is a completely different thing but we almost always have somebody with us guiding us through life and you know it's a really interesting practice to remember when you're a little kid and you told everybody oh the devil made me do it when you did something bad well you know obviously yeah obviously you can't go around telling everybody oh well my spirit guide told me to do that because they don't make you do anything they're a guide not a possession so they will try to guide you in life in a way that it seems like there's nothing there at all other than good luck because you don't want to become reliant upon them you want to be able to walk on your own two feet and do these things so they'll have a very light touch in your life but it's ultimately up to you what decision you will make so I want to go back to the perception thing like let's say let's say I believe and let's say it is true that I have guides how do I like start talking to them or how do I just do it just out loud out loud until you start feeling you know self-conscious about it and then do it in your head whatever but most of the time you want to get into you know a nice little safe place a lot of people do meditation to do it other people do it whenever they're you know doing something where you know you just have time like when you're got 30 minutes of driving the taxi or whatever going back home you suddenly have a nice quiet space nobody's gonna judge you and you can just talk out loud and that's one of the ways to start doing it I always suggest to folks that if they're gonna do it maybe start looking back into your life and seeing where you had real close calls that something should have happened to you and didn't and then it started examining that because maybe then you can start noticing a pattern maybe it was every time that Ru was about to stick his hand into the fire that a girl's voice came in and said don't do that and you listen then you turn around and you did something else entirely sometimes sometimes it's a pattern you won't even believe happened like oh yeah now I realize that every time that I was sad suddenly my favorite TV show came on and it was about a dog or it was about this little old lady who lived under the sea or whatever you'll start noticing certain patterns of things that helped you whenever you were doing something that probably wasn't very helpful to you and if that doesn't end up working there is always the go-to of go to your ancestors you can always go to your ancestors if you are one of those types of cultures who believes in your ancestors you know watching over you and you can start doing you know your sacrifices your altars or whatever just acknowledgement acknowledge that they're there so alright so you touched on something if you believe like if you believe in ants in that your ancestor spirits exist but what if what if you don't believe or like what if so are you saying that like that is a I mean I'm just trying to does it only exist if you believe in it is it one of those I want to say and I'm gonna use something that a demon told me on this one your magic is in your blood I thought he meant you know what you were capable of is what you were capable of know what he meant was your generations go back multiple multiple different ways to multiple different cultures and it is what is ingrained in all of your culture it is what your people believe even after death a lot of people end up believing this and it is what they will abide by it is a reason why you can't chase off a vampire with the Star of David but you can with a Christian cross is because it's a Christian myth so in your bloodline you have different beliefs of what is and is not going to happen with your ancestors once they pass over with that though I know you're just using as an example though but like if you don't believe in vampires if your culture doesn't have that will you never experience one is that to me that now that now it's starting to seem like oh is this just like self-fulfilling prophecy or is it just like just you project whatever you know the reason why I brought up the the bloodline thing is because we have different entry points to the world of you and a lot of it is dictated by our cultural upbringing our location can sometimes be a big factor to it but the biggest factor of all is going to be what you're willing to throw yourself into for example I don't believe in the ancestors it's just not something that is in my culture but I know many witches that I highly respect who work with both entities and their ancestors so there's different entry points to getting into this it doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong like you had wrong points in your week if I wanted to believe ancestors I could start doing this but I might not reach any of my ancestors I might reach somebody else's ancestors on accident it's not necessarily that what you believe colors what you see but rather it affects how strongly you're able to get involved with it gasha so is it is it like if I don't fully believe in something I won't be able to perceive it in that form you may not even be able to perceive it at all just like we have energy blockages in our body the thoughts beliefs actions and stories we tell ourselves will block our abilities as well okay so I mean that's kind of I mean for it for at least a skeptic and I and I maybe I'm harping too much on the skeptic side but I wanted to really ground it in like something practical because I'm interested in exploring this with my own whatever after this but I I'm losing my train of thought because there's so many thoughts the sorry I lost it even entity stole it out of my head it's fine it's fine um there's it's a huge topic there's so much to cover and even if we had all day we'd never cover everything because it is in the end colored by everybody's perceptions to an extent I mean if if you notice a lot of the churches don't talk about demons in a traditional they actually exist aspect but more in a you know inner demon sort of thing they talk about the the bad things people do oh yeah but then the Catholic churches having said that still do exorcisms have you noticed that they say it doesn't exist but they still do exorcisms yeah you have things going on behind the scenes at all point in time and everybody's life that you know some people are ready for and some people are not ready for so the way that you perceive what's going on around you is going to affect certain things I've known Reiki practitioners and Reiki is a good thing Reiki is a positive non-negative thing it is only good it is people who make it bad and I've known Reiki practitioners who said Reiki is for the devil that Reiki opened up my world to possession to evil entities and blah blah blah and they became a hardcore born-again Christians because of it now I'm not harping on your religions or anything what I'm saying is people will color their own perceptions maybe these folks ran into entities scared completely by whatever they thought they saw turn tail and just just all of a sudden it's all about praying and praying and praying away the evil you have almost every opportunity to turn your life around at any point and when it comes to becoming a witch that is one thing that has been the most difficult thing to ever do is to turn it around and say I don't want to do this anymore because just because you don't want to believe in it anymore having known that you saw what you saw doesn't mean it's no longer there just because you close your eyes so entities they exist they exist all around us but most of the time none of us care enough to actually have any interaction with them so they hardly end up having any interaction with us that we would recognize but don't be fooled almost every single day of our lives we end up running into something or other it's just we're used to calling it oh I tripped or oh it was just an accident at work or oh just bad luck different things out there will interact with us in different ways whether it's good or bad but foolheartedly just running in headfirst without preparing yourself without accepting that there could be consequences like Reiki practitioners who did things and then all of a sudden oh now they're running away that's a level of irresponsibility that will border on imbecilic and not only that but we'll bring more trouble to you doing bad things attracts bad things to you gotcha and all right yeah I won't even open another can of worms I think there's been a lot of like great information do you have um and I know I've asked this in a couple ways already but where should someone start if they're if they want to see what this is about see how they could get in touch like what is the best point a for them find something that you like find something that seems to be only good like like the Devatas in the culture I think they're only good spirits like a mythological being sure you explore find something that calls you something that seems to just stick in your head like man for some reason I really think that these these angels are a cool thing or you know find something that really does not leave your mind something you really feel could give you what you're looking for are you looking to learn are you looking to gain are you looking to make a deal what are you wanting to do and then find something that might be able to help you out in that aspect that you feel drawn to and then you can start doing one of the biggest things is vision boards you know where you you start using images and and things that correlate to that thing maybe get little statues of angels or fairies or whatever it is that attracts you I know that mermaids are a huge thing right now so you know maybe start putting up pictures of Ariel somewhere and getting seashells and blah blah blah make something physical something physical that visually always reminds you or in any way stimulates your creativity your fondness for that creature and then start talking start talking and just start saying hey you know if I wanted to see a mermaid I might go down to the water though just you know appropriate major space and you start saying hey you know I'm just down here I'm just walking around I'm just curious about blah blah blah you want to make friends how do you originally make friends in the human world you talk you approach you're nice you're cautious remember there's always stuff out there that's good or bad you're cautious and gain trust eventually if they see that you are worthwhile because you are reliable they they get to know you they think that you're not going to harm them because we can harm them too eventually you will peak the interest of something but one of the biggest things that I do want to say is maybe don't do this again until you absolutely know that you know how to put down anything that you call up it's big rule because you don't go and try to make friends with a biker if you don't think that you can take them if he's gonna go turn around on you right so you can definitely start with whatever you feel is closest to your culture because they usually do end up having a fondness for those in their culture but you can also start off with things that you've known across all cultures to be good like you know Angels are usually down to help just about anybody nymphs they usually don't ever harm anybody but you know there could be a crazy nymph out there who knows start off with friendly nice things that you know are gonna be something that you can deal with yeah don't go trying to find a friendly demon just find something that calls to you feels good to you and that you know you know how to deal with okay and okay cool I'd say well some like astral projection seems to be tied into all this stuff super huge yes in that when you're leave your body you can experience these things more perhaps actually project I won't immediately discount what I see and you know perhaps I'd imagine that if every time I've seen an entity I assume that it was just a thing in my imagination they probably wouldn't like that so much right yeah nobody wants to be called a fake you know whether it is you don't even exist or you don't believe what you're talking about respect is key got it okay cool awesome well thanks so much I feel like might have you on again to ask more follow-up questions need to process some of these thoughts and definitely will link your website I know you have some fun little narrative stories of experiences you've had with entities which I think are really fun to read and if anyone has any questions about specifics they can reach out to you right yeah definitely I think you posted a link somewhere we're to any of those things but I do have a blog going on right now where I tell stories about witchy stuff that I do and entities that I run into so if you know somebody who needs help or if you're looking for some funny stories I do put a lot of those up as I can but it's not all bad it can be rude downright silly cool awesome well thank you so much st.

Lou so next time thank you everyone bye bye thanks for listening don't forget to subscribe on iTunes or stitcher if you want to be a part of the virtual audience for future episodes make sure to follow me at proudcast.

Io slash Luanda see you next time you straight