Welcome to this short clip of me,
Relationships coach Nicola Williams,
Talking with somatic therapist and educator Gwen McHale about the paradox of the oneness of existence,
Having seemingly separate individual beings,
How spiritual bypassing can happen in this paradox,
And why we need personal boundaries.
And the full interview is also available.
And with,
You know,
When you start really going deep enough,
Everything becomes a paradox,
You know,
So that might seem to someone like a kind of a paradox that being nice isn't kind necessarily,
For example.
Some other kind of paradox that I became aware of as you were speaking earlier was around separateness and interconnectedness.
So,
Yes,
We were speaking about when we rest into a place of being,
There's a wholeness and an interconnectedness and we move out of the illusion of separation.
And I feel that feels like such a basic truth to my understanding.
And then there's also the place,
Because I know you're really,
You work a lot with boundaries and helping people really express their authentic boundaries,
Which brings us into an apparent place of separation.
So if I say no,
Or I don't agree with you,
It separates from me from you,
It differentiates who I am,
Who you are.
So could you say a little bit about these two different meanings of separation or how you make sense of that apparent paradox?
Yeah,
So this is really important,
Actually,
Because when we're talking about,
There's no separation and we're all one,
Then the spiritual bypassing can come in.
So an example I have of this is that when I was in India a couple of years ago,
I went to a guest house and could see that the blankets hadn't been cleaned.
I could tell that they needed washing and asking the person behind the desk,
Could I please have clean blankets?
And the woman saying to me,
You know,
India being a really spiritual country as well,
Madam,
Do not worry about this,
We are all one.
So it was beautiful what you say,
I'm saying,
Okay,
Yes,
We are all one.
It's beautiful that you're recognising that and I love India because people say these kind of things all the time.
But actually,
You know,
That wasn't recognising my needs,
My individual needs.
And I needed those blankets to be clean.
And so that can happen quite easily.
So yeah,
There really is a need for me to say where I end and where you begin.
And the reality is we are living in these bodies and we need to stay safe and we need to stay healthy.
And so we need to have boundaries and to be able to say no.
And actually what it does when I can say no to you,
That means we now have a chance for real authentic connection.
If you ask me for a hug,
I always use this example,
If you say,
Nicola,
Can I have a hug?
And I don't really feel like giving you one.
But I say,
Oh,
Yes,
Okay,
You know,
Let's have a hug.
You know,
Where I might think something like,
Oh,
We're all one and it's all everything's made of love.
And I'm going to be loving,
I'm going to be kind,
I'm going to be spiritually,
You know,
Going to hug this person.
And I put my arms around you in that moment when I've done that,
I've betrayed myself,
I've abandoned myself.
And I've actually abandoned you,
The chance of us meeting in a real place.
But if I say to you,
I don't feel like a hug right now.
Now you know what's real for me.
Now I can stay rooted in myself,
You can see where I am.
So you can meet you can meet me.
And now we can connect.
Now we can experience our shared being.
So we need a recognition of,
Of both of both.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah,
That's really helpful.
So there's that sense of the recognition of,
I would say,
Maybe difference that you and I are interconnected with part of one consciousness,
But we're not the same and we're not merged.
And I think the spiritual bypassing really goes into a kind of unhealthy merged place as opposed to being a collection of differentiated and interconnected individuals.
Yeah,
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I thought that's something that I love about your work,
That you're really able to hold both,
You know,
The recognition of the individual needs and the greater awareness of oneness.
And then all the,
All the nuances of relating that happen within that state of being.
Exactly.
Yeah.
