Communication In Romantic Relationships - Interview

Communication in Romantic Relationships, What We're Thinking About Podcast with Barry Ebert and special guest, Patty Luckenbach. In this episode, Patty and Barry talk about the challenges and joys of communication in the context of romantic relationships. Let's find out how can we get a shift in perspective. This podcast ends with a guided spiritual practice.

Transcript

It is what we're thinking about and what we're thinking about is evolved communication.

Hello and welcome to the Mile High Church podcast.

This is the place where we connect and converse to explore communication in our relationships,

Our social world,

Inner development and spirituality.

Today,

We open our hearts and we get real.

Well we're back.

This is Dr.

Berry with what we're thinking about and today we're talking about relationships again and brought back my good buddy Dr.

Patty Leukenbach to talk to us about relationships.

And I just want to start off with why are relationships so darn difficult for all of us?

Oh that's an incredible question,

Berry.

Just reflecting on relationships,

I think because they're difficult because we look outside of ourselves to have our needs met.

That's one reason they're difficult.

And I think a lot of times we tend to lose ourselves in relationships because we're trying so hard for the other party to confirm us and to honor us.

And that's all good and fine,

But it can trip us up at times.

Yeah,

I like that because I think we need to be healthy personally and be taking good care of ourselves personally as we move into a relationship and not be looking for someone else to complete us or to make us healthy or make us happy.

I think we still have to bring that to the relationship and not look to find it there.

Yes,

I think we look for it in relationship and many times we are unconsciously looking.

And a lot of times there's a bump in the relationship,

There's an upset or unfortunately,

Many times a divorce where all of a sudden we start to realize what is really important,

Kind of like holding a mirror up in front of our faces and saying,

Who am I to be in relationship?

Yeah,

And I think a lot of times we can project things that have gone on in our past relationships into our present one and kind of bring that baggage back and,

Oh,

I don't want to do that again or now this is happening again,

Or we get triggered by something somebody said or did because it reminds us of something that happened to us before.

And I think a lot of times it's difficult to get current into the relationship we're in now because we're dragging so much of that baggage from the past with us.

Yeah,

A lot of bags,

All different sizes too.

You know,

In my life,

Probably relationships have been my greatest teacher and I used to collect relationships like some people used to collect postage stamps.

And after a while,

You know,

It's like,

Wow,

I got to find out who I am,

Who I am in these relationships so I can relate to what you were just saying.

And you know,

Coming together,

I think it was 20 years ago when I remarried and that was a very important marriage because I felt like I had finally awakened consciously to who I was.

And I remember so clearly that I gave two vows in that service.

One I spoke out loud and the other one was a vow to myself that I was the perfect relationship.

And that has helped me so many times throughout the 20 years when there's been an upset or a conflict.

You know,

I want to go in and attack and fight and all of a sudden I pull back and I say,

Remember that vow?

You are the perfect relationship.

And that helps me kind of mellow and to recalculate in a good way.

Yeah,

Well,

I think relationships call us to be conscious,

To be conscious of our triggers and our boundaries and what it is that we're really looking for and what it is that we're really bringing.

One of the things that really helped me thinking about relationships and talking with people about them is that great book,

The Road Less Traveled by Scott Pack when he talks about,

He has a chapter on love that's just really beautiful and he talks about the difference between falling in love and being in love.

And we all,

Falling in love is great.

We all love that.

But what he pointed out was it's a chemical reaction.

It's physical and it's chemical.

And a lot of times we're looking for that to continue and it has its own life cycle to it and then we need to move into a part of being in love and what that means and a different level of commitment,

A different level of focus and a different level of kind of getting our ego out of the way and being clear and clean with the person we're in relationship with.

You know,

I once had a wonderful teacher and he said this in the class.

And I remember a student got up and walked out and I don't think they ever came back unfortunately.

But we were talking about romantic love and we were talking about the many aspects of love and he made the comment that romantic love can be insanity.

And the rest of us all laughed because we had had that experience of losing ourselves in the glory and the shine of being in love.

And as you so beautifully pointed out from Scott Peck's book that it's about finding that love inside of ourselves and sharing it,

Having that open communication to be able to share that love.

Yeah,

Well I think we all love the falling part.

I mean the falling part is great but that's what we're doing.

We're falling and we're somewhat out of control during that part.

And we love that.

It kind of reconnects us with our adolescence,

You know,

That feeling of falling.

But I think,

You know,

To have a mature love with somebody else we have to be more clear and we have to kind of get our ego out of the way and really nurture that soul connection that two people are really looking for in a deeper level.

And a lot of times it takes work.

It takes work.

Oh,

It takes a lot of work.

Yeah.

It takes a lot of work to be in an effective,

Beautiful relationship.

And I want to just bring into our conversation a principle.

It's called the Frankenstein Principle.

It got my attention.

It's like,

Oh,

That seems really freaky.

And a lot of times when we lose ourselves that is such a challenge to find ourselves.

But this principle says it's a cursing principle,

Paying attention to what you don't like and don't want in another creates monsters on both sides of the scene.

And so for us to be able to lift and find the qualities within our heart that brought us together in the first place and to be able to share those qualities that it has a way of bringing us into togetherness,

A beautiful togetherness of sharing our soulfulness,

Our spiritual connection.

And there's also another principle that,

Thank heavens,

Follows the Frankenstein.

And it's the Fairy Godmother Principle.

And that's a blessing principle to be able to have those qualities and bless the other,

Bless our children,

Our families.

The blessing upon ourselves is being able to see that sense of love that has brought us together in the first place.

So you're saying in the Frankenstein Principle we're kind of seeing the bad things in the other person when they show up and kind of building a persona of those bad things around that person and kind of making a case against them because of that.

Yeah,

We're making a case of the form of thinking,

The ugly thoughts,

The criticism,

The blame,

The frustrations.

You know,

It's so easy for people to build a big case around that.

And then they have to justify it over and over again.

And to be able to realize,

Oh my gosh,

I'm doing that.

And we recognize here at Mile High Church that thoughts are things,

Thoughts are energy.

And so what am I projecting that I'm holding to you?

And so I think the Fairy Godmother Principle,

The principle of blessing,

Is to be able to reel back that energy within ourselves and to find that point of appreciation for self.

And that's not selfish.

I think that's coming back into our soulfulness,

Back into our higher self to be able to recognize criticism and blame is certainly not anything that polishes a good relationship.

It tends to chip away at it.

Well,

I think we need to be taking care of ourselves first.

And that's not a selfish thing whatsoever.

That's what we're bringing to a relationship,

Not only in honesty,

But healthy boundaries and a healthy commitment to what we're looking for and what we're willing to bring to the relationship.

And that idea of blessing each other and blessing the people that are around us,

I think one of the things that happens when relationships come to those natural bumps in the road and we all have them,

That we have to be really careful not to lose our respect for the other person or lose that sense of connection that brought us there in the first place and not to be so defensive that we move into that area of making a case against them.

And a lot of that case gets built up in our own mind,

In our own head,

In our own thinking.

And we project that person,

We make that person into a Frankenstein.

I like the way you said that.

And then we kind of think of them as that character instead of dealing with them the way that they are.

And I know both of us do a lot of counseling with couples.

And the thing of being able to just come off our own mountain that we're on and that we're trying to protect ourselves on and to just be honest and vulnerable with that other person can be more difficult all the time the more we make them into that Frankenstein model.

Right.

And I think effective communication and,

You know,

This evolving communication,

Our theme for this year here at Mile High,

Has brought up a whole lot.

And what you're seeing,

Dr.

Berry,

Is so important to be able to have that respect,

To be able to maybe even have a time,

Especially if it's a family situation,

To maybe have a time where you have a family meeting where everyone gets to go around and just communicate.

Because I think,

You know,

We tend to stay confirmed into all our devices as we talked about before and to be able to communicate heart to heart.

And I have a little cloth heart that I have stuffed and decorated.

It's a cute little thing.

And when my husband and I sit down to have a conversation,

If there's been a difficulty that has arisen,

That we'll pass that heart back and forth.

So when he's holding that heart,

I get to really listen,

And not from a place of judgment,

But from a place of heart.

And he passes it to me and we exchange that way and it has a way of softening that communication in our relationships.

I like that,

Because I think we do get incredibly defensive to protect ourselves.

You know,

We're protecting our own hearts.

We're protecting our own souls.

And the opportunity is there to be open and be vulnerable,

Kind of can slip away from us when we spend so much of our time protecting ourselves.

And again,

I think we project from other hurts,

From other times that we've been hurt,

And we don't want that to happen again.

So we want to build up a stronger defense than we had before.

And I think the idea,

You know,

That's the idea of really being able to listen and to hear what the other person says and to move out of that thing of trying to convince the other person that we're right,

Because we're not listening when we're doing that.

And I think that,

You know,

That thing of having a talking stick that you pass back and forth is a powerful thing that's been around for thousands of years,

Because people,

You know,

Relationships have been going on as long as there have been people.

And these bumps in the road have been there ever since the beginning of time.

And so much of it has to do with the ability to listen and to come off of our mountain and to listen to the other person,

Try to hear them,

And to give them that kind of respect.

Yes,

And I feel that the fuel that is needed for all of this is love itself.

And it is the essence of who we are.

And we fall in love,

But perhaps the truth is we're rising in love.

So an effective way to be in a relationship is to be able to expand and rise in love.

And love is a choice.

It's not an emotion.

And I think many times the emotions are out there in front of us,

But to be able to reel that back in to recognizing that I am the beloved,

I'm loved,

Loving,

And to be able to hold that and then even take it even higher when I say the word behold.

Behold means to let go and to just raise it,

Put it into the atmosphere.

And it has a way of cleaning a house,

Cleansing and renewing relationships in a compassionate,

Beautiful way.

Yeah.

Give me a little bit more about that,

About cleaning a house.

How do you mean that?

Cleaning a house would be just shifting our attitudes.

So it wouldn't be bringing out the vacuum cleaner and polishing the windows,

But it would be polishing the windows from the inside out within ourselves so that we can see.

And if there's any clutter that we've been packing around,

You spoke about the baggage,

Then we need to set that down.

So that's what I mean by cleaning house because we live within this home,

Our physical home,

Our bodies.

We share our bodies,

Our emotions,

Our mentalities,

And most importantly what's going to keep us connected is sharing that clean and beautiful connection of heart.

I like that.

You know,

I heard recently and I've heard this a few times that marriage or relationship is the death of the ego.

And I think that can be put out there in a real negative way as if it's a surrender and you're giving up your own individuality.

But I think of it in a very positive way,

That there is an opportunity when we're in relationship with another person to develop just a greater sense of who we really are.

I think,

I know in my life it's been such an amazing gift to have my relationship with my wife and to develop this kind of life that's important to both of us.

And is there a surrendering involved?

Yeah,

But it makes me a better person for doing that surrender and it makes me more conscious of all the world around me and of all of my relationships and of all people by going all in on it.

Yes,

And Barry,

I know you are a gardener and I brought this little quote with me.

A good relationship is likened to a garden.

It asks us to dig deep,

To discover our seed of true identity,

To fertilize it,

To water it with our love through all the seasons of change and allowing the seed of relationships be one of the greatest seeds that we can ever plant.

The harvest brings forth greater spiritual awareness.

I love it.

Yeah.

So it's,

Life is one big love story.

Yeah,

Yeah it is.

And I think moving off of defensiveness and moving into open heartedness is really the key to it.

And of course I love the garden metaphor and part of the garden metaphor for me is compost and that we're making better soil out of our past mistakes by digging them in and by adding new material.

And I think that we have an incredible opportunity to grow.

We're in a time now where there's a lot of focus on division and a lot of broken relationships because of social change and because of politics and all that.

And I think it's going to be very important for us as we move back into community,

Person to person community and be able to see each other without masks on that we bring a level of clarity and focus to our relationships and bring our hearts to them as well.

Yes,

I believe that is a truth and everything depends on our thoughts we entertain.

So we are certainly living in a time of challenge but we're good for this time because we recognize that what we are entertaining is what we project.

So moving back to that place of love and love for not only a husband and wife,

Our best friends,

Our children,

Our grandchildren,

The world,

Humanity because there's only one race and that's a human race.

So to even behold that because love has a way of piercing through circumstances,

Effects,

Through emotions and it has a way of piercing and bringing forth that spiritual truth for all humanity.

Yeah,

Yeah,

I love that.

We're going to be bringing that kind of consciousness into the world with us and I like what you said,

We can do this.

We were designed for this.

This is the essence of who we are is to be in relationship with each other and spirit is a part of all these relationships as well and we're not alone in doing it but that's the way God gets to show up through us is in relationships through our soulful connections.

So yeah,

We're up for this.

We're up for this and we're in relationship with all of life.

Cool.

So let's make it a good one,

A great and wondrous relationship that enhances all beings.

So would you be willing to do a little process for us here,

Maybe a little meditation or treatment and drop us into our hearts a little?

Oh,

I would love that.

So as Barry says,

Let's just drop into our hearts.

I recognize that the openness of heart is always and always available.

So be with your breath right now.

Sense what is breathing you,

What is breathing myself,

All of us.

For I believe with all my heart and all my might and that spiritual light that it is that,

It is the light of spirit.

No matter what you call spirit,

If you call it God,

The divine beingness,

There's a harmony that is ever present.

So just gentle with breath,

That gentle harmony,

Just allowing it to be aware and open in your consciousness,

In your point of being awake and aware.

For I give thanks for this connection,

For this connection we are all related in relationship with.

For there's a greater relationship and that is spirit,

Almighty God,

That harmonic love.

And from that place of harmonic love,

The qualities of harmonic love,

Feel our beingness.

You are filled with the beingness,

Not the doingness,

But the beingness of spirit.

So just bask in that knowingness.

And there's a place of surrender there that gives to us the truth of our being that everything that we are is in perfect relationship.

It is the divine expressing as you,

Expresses as your family,

As your friends.

And I step on up and say it expresses as this planet,

As this world.

So moving beyond any conditions,

Any justifications,

Just moving into that blessing principle that God is therefore I am.

I affirm for each one of us that we are the perfect relationship because we are connected to that greater life.

And we allow that greater life to broadcast through us,

To be the window that we look out to be able to see another.

It's a love that fills our homes.

It heals our body because it is our soulful connection.

So in this knowingness,

I know that gratitude,

The memory of it lives within our heart space.

And we are wedded to that knowingness that God is.

So I just let go,

Just allowing,

Permitting,

Allowing and permitting myself,

Each of you,

All of us together in this prayer to be that perfect relationship.

Let your light so shine.

And I declare this into being and so it is.

Amen.

Thank you so much,

Dr.

Patty,

And thank you for being with us and talking about relationships.

Well,

Thank you for having me today,

Barry.

Yeah.

It's been wonderful.

It's always fun.

So that's it.

That's what we're thinking about.

I hope you'll tune in and connect with us again on our next podcast.

And for now,

Be well and may your relationships be good ones.

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