Don’t Get Lost In The Map | The Map Is Not Reality

We can spend years studying the spiritual map—reading books, listening to talks, learning the language of awakening—yet never set foot on the actual terrain.

In this talk, we explore the Zen teaching “Not Two, Not One” and how it reminds us that the map is not reality. Concepts and teachings can point the way, but they can never replace direct experience.

Transcript

A Zen student goes to his master and he asks the master,

Can you condense down the teachings into one phrase for me?

Just one phrase that I can mull over that can really help me get the essence of the teachings.

And so the master thinks about it for a few moments and then and then he says,

Not to.

So the student hearing this thinking,

Oh I was looking for a little bit more than that.

Can you maybe give me one more phrase that could hopefully just condense everything down and just be helpful for me?

So the master thinks about it again for a few moments and then he replies,

Not one.

So probably the student wasn't particularly happy with the answers.

So let's unpack this,

Unpack what this means.

So when the master was saying not to,

What he was doing was cutting through the illusion of separation.

This belief that I am over here and all of you are over there separate from me,

That I am here and life is somehow separate from me,

Something other than me.

And so the moment that we hear this,

Not to,

Cutting through the illusion of separateness,

The mind immediately wants to go to name what it is that's left.

So if it's not to,

Then it must mean that it's all oneness.

It must mean that it's all one consciousness,

That I am consciousness,

That I am everything.

And very subtly what we're doing is going right back to duality again.

We're giving an identity to it again by naming it.

So when the master said not one,

He was trying to stop that,

That subtleness of going back to duality by not giving the mind anywhere to land,

Not giving it another identity to hold on to.

And for a few moments,

This can feel quite nice when we hear not to,

Not one,

Right?

There can be a feeling of spaciousness,

A feeling of ease.

Then the thinking starts coming in again.

And because the mind can't find anything to hold on to,

It starts to interpret not to,

Not one as I don't exist,

And start sliding into nihilism.

But the teaching is not denying life.

It is in fact revealing life as it is.

No separation,

No borders,

No edges.

It's not saying that you don't exist,

That I don't exist,

Just that we don't exist the way we think we do.

And in any way that we can imagine how we think we exist,

That's not it.

And we get so close,

So close when we begin to see I'm not the doer,

I'm not the thinker,

I'm not the ego,

I'm not my mind,

I'm not the thoughts,

Right?

We get so close because the mind then jumps to,

Well,

Then what am I?

And that's a beautiful question.

When it is asked as a direct inquiry to silence the mind,

But too often it's the mind asking the question in a way that it's wanting to intellectually understand what it is that I am.

It wants to hold it in words,

In language.

And I think this is what the Chinese philosopher,

The Tao philosopher Lao Tzu was pointing to when he said,

Those who speak don't know.

Those who know don't speak.

And I don't believe that he was saying we can't talk about the path because clearly he talked a lot about the path.

What I believe he was pointing to is that reality cannot be grasped by the intellect,

That words will always fail in describing what it is,

That at best,

What we can use are concepts to represent it.

So concepts,

Ideas,

These are helpful for us,

Right?

They're the maps that help us navigate the terrain.

They point us in the right direction,

But the maps are not the terrain.

The maps are representations of the terrains.

And no amount of studying the map is going to tell me what the terrain really looks like.

And I do feel that there is so much walking around today,

People walking around on the spiritual path,

Holding maps so consumed by the maps and what does this symbol mean?

And what does this word mean over here?

And I've really got to understand all of this.

And they're not putting the maps down to see what the maps are pointing to,

What the map is a representation of.

So overly emphasizing the map for the terrain.

And even in the most profound of teachings,

Teachings,

Concepts that I tend to agree with,

Where they do say,

Great teachers will say,

Consciousness is all there is,

That consciousness is fundamental.

But this too is just a concept.

And no amount of studying consciousness as the map is going to help me see the reality of what consciousness,

Of saying that consciousness is fundamental,

Of what that is actually pointing to.

And so what we're doing here,

What we're exploring here,

Is looking at what the maps are pointing to,

What they're trying to show us,

That that what cannot be known intellectually can only be known directly.

Not that the mind can't grasp on this,

The mind can't get hold of this.

It is in the stillness of the mind that we directly know this.

And so I'm not saying that we throw out the Dharma books,

That we stop coming to the Dharma talks,

Because all of these things are helpful.

This is new terrain for us.

We need the maps.

What I'm saying is when the talk is over,

When you close the book,

Put down the map,

Let go of all of the ideas,

The images,

The concepts of what you think this is,

And inquire directly into what it is.

This is how we avoid getting into the oneness,

Right?

We see the not-to-ness is the asking the question,

Who am I?

What am I?

And then not with the mind coming in to try and give some answer,

Some intellectual answer,

Something for it to feel good about itself,

But in looking for the to-ness and not finding it,

Not finding a fixed permanent independent entity here,

It revealing reality,

That you are reality.

And so the direct inquiry as this way to help us put down the map that we get so lost in.

And if we're feeling a particularly sticky,

A particularly strong emotion,

Right?

And of course,

With mindfulness,

We recognize,

Oh,

Oh,

I'm feeling anxious,

I'm feeling angry,

I'm feeling disappointed,

Right?

And we feel those feelings and we allow ourselves to feel it.

And it's okay to feel this.

It's okay to feel whatever it is that's here.

And then the question,

Who is it that was feeling anxious?

Who was feeling upset?

Who was feeling angry?

As a way to keep cutting off the mind into going to another,

Cutting off the mind going back to duality,

Right?

By asking again,

Who is it?

And seeing that there is nothing solid independent here,

There is no separation,

There are no edges,

There are no borders.

And then it is being reality.

It's seeing through the separateness that I am not over here and you are over there,

That I am separate from life,

Right?

This is what stops the mind from turning this back into another thing again,

Going back into duality,

Questioning,

The inquiry is the questioning of it.

And then it's just being,

Just being without the grasping,

Without the naming,

Without trying to make this anything other than what it is.

It's just being reality,

Just being.

But we have to be willing to put down the maps.

We have to be willing to recognize the maps are not the terrain.

A 2D image of a map is never going to give you the understanding of what a 3D terrain really looks like.

And it couldn't be even more stark when what we're talking about here,

Reality,

The reality of what we are,

That is so difficult to talk about.

It can be described,

It can be a concept,

It can be a pointer,

But the map will always pale in comparison to what it is pointing to.

And so the teaching,

Not two,

Not one,

Is ensuring that we don't go from,

From,

Okay,

It's not two,

To,

Well,

I'm all,

I'm consciousness,

I'm everything,

And inadvertently bringing ourselves back up into duality again,

And then getting lost in all the markers of what does that mean if I'm consciousness,

But instead recognizing that's a concept.

That's a concept.

If the mind latches onto the concept,

I've just gone right back up into duality again.

All of these things are concepts to help point us in the right direction.

But the maps are not the terrain.

And we have to recognize that and be willing to put down the maps and see for ourselves.

You're never going to get this intellectually.

And if you're sitting in a Dharma talk,

Or you're reading a Dharma book,

A spiritual book,

And you're so focused on getting every single word,

And I've got to understand this first,

Then you're never going to put the map down.

And so again,

I wouldn't say don't throw the pointers out,

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

But when you're in a Dharma talk,

When you're reading a book,

Don't grasp at every single word as that's the truth.

They're all just pointing to things.

And maybe you only get 70% of it,

80% of what they're pointing to.

That's enough for you to know,

Okay,

Now it's time to put down the map and inquire,

Who am I?

What am I?

Not as an intellectual exercise,

But to take us directly to being,

To circumvent all of the ways in which the mind can turn this back into a thing again.

So that we know for sure that these are just concepts.

They're just pointing us.

The concept is not reality itself.

It's just a pointer.

So not two,

Not one,

Really was just four simple words,

Quite a profound teaching for us and really pointing out the ways in which I think the mind takes spirituality and turns it into another thing to add onto itself and therefore trick us into becoming endless spiritual seekers.

Right?

And we don't want to be endless spiritual seekers.

What we're trying to see,

What the map is pointing to,

You already are.

It's not to become something new.

It's not to become something different.

It's not to become more improved.

It's to see that you are reality,

But all your attention goes up to the illusion of separateness.

And then the illusion of me as consciousness,

Me as everything,

Just another part of another way of creating separation and an illusion,

But it looks a little better,

Right?

Feels a little bit better,

Still grasping,

Still clinging,

Still suffering in there.

So for us to be able to see this more clearly,

To avoid all the pitfalls that are littered on this path.

And every time that we are willing to put down the map and question using self-inquiry,

Using mindfulness,

But not just mindfulness going,

Making sure as part of our mindfulness,

We are doing that final question.

Who was upset?

Who was angry?

Who doubted themselves to keep dissolving the barrier?

And then it's not something that you go,

Oh,

I got it.

And then I lost it because you realized there was nothing to get.

It's that being reality is reality.

And then the attention goes back up into the separate self again.

That's all that happens.

You didn't have,

You weren't getting anything.

You were just,

Your attention was going,

Your attention had left the illusion of separateness.

And then it goes back to it.

And then you question it again,

Who lost it?

Who has to get back?

When you keep inquiring and questioning it,

Putting a light on the illusion and seeing,

Oh,

There's nothing there.

It's just a thought that assumes there is something solid and independent there that this is happening to.

If I'm angry,

There is an assumption that there is a me that this is happening to.

So when we cast a light on it,

Who was angry?

It's like,

Oh,

I can't find it.

Anger was arising because of all of the conditions that were happening,

Previous conditions,

All the conditions that were arising this moment.

Anger was arising like a wave coming out of the ocean,

Right?

Not separate from the ocean,

Just appearing and then going back down again.

Yeah.

Anger was arising.

No one that it was happening to.

And so I think this is a,

I hope this is a helpful reminder for us.

Not two,

Not one.

At best,

We can use concepts to describe this,

But don't mistake the concepts.

Don't mistake the maps for the terrain.

I'm going to guess that most of you here have enough knowledge.

And again,

I don't,

I don't deny that teach hearing these teachings and reading books.

And I do this as well.

It's very helpful.

But when the talk is over,

When you're done reading the book,

Also put down the map,

Don't carry,

Keep carrying the map around with you.

And as best you can,

Let go of any concepts,

Let go of any ideas of what you think this is.

Whatever you think this is,

I promise you,

That is not it.

It is simply,

We've gone right back up into duality.

It's more subtle,

It looks a little more spiritual,

It looks a little more special,

But it is still the same ego.

Don't confuse the map for the terrain.

So Alice,

You're saying it's like holding an ice cube,

Expecting it not to melt or change.

That's a good one.

Oh,

Is it like holding an ice cube,

Expecting it not to melt or change?

Holding the map is like an ice cube,

Expecting it not to melt or change.

Maybe you could rephrase that for me.

I'm not sure I'm totally getting what your question is.

And hi Mari,

Good to see you.

Yeah,

If you can rephrase that for me.

Yeah,

We do spend so much time here talking about what we're not.

And there's a reason for that,

Because once we start talking about what we are,

We latch on to that concept.

And I do think it doesn't serve us well.

I think it just gets us right into,

Again,

Seeing ourselves as something,

As a thing.

And so all the ways in which we're pointing out that we're not the doer,

We're not the decision maker,

We're not the thinker,

We're not the worrier,

We're not the planner,

We're not the comparer,

The judge,

Whatever it is,

You know,

That we're not these things.

It's not to turn around then,

And to think,

To sit here and be thinking about,

Well,

Then what am I,

In this kind of way that the mind could somehow get it?

Because everything that's happening in the mind is just thought,

The activity of thought.

And the activity of thought,

Giving the illusion of a me at the center of it.

And so it's never going to get it.

It's never going to get it.

You know,

The ego isn't what becomes enlightened.

The ego starts us off on the path.

Yeah,

Because we're tired of the suffering.

But eventually,

You know,

The ego is not willing to throw itself under the bus quite yet.

It wants to,

It doesn't want to suffer anymore,

But it wants to be there for it as well.

And it can't be there for it.

And so it's very subtle in the ways that we hear what it is that we are.

And in Buddhism,

The Buddha wouldn't talk about this a lot.

He was very careful at not wanting to describe reality.

And it's interesting because in Advaita Vedanta,

In non-duality teachings,

They kind of spill the whole beans.

Here it all is.

This is what it is.

It does very much to a large degree,

Or at least in my understanding,

To a large degree to conform with Buddhism and definitely with later commentaries.

And so sometimes we kind of will hear,

Oh,

Now I know what it all is.

And in some ways that can be helpful.

But I think we do miss the idea that it's a concept.

And I think there is a lot of mistaking the concept for the reality.

Because it's easy to,

You know,

People can get up and talk about this then,

And say a lot of fancy words and say a lot of fancy things.

And it sounds so wonderful.

Oh,

I'm just,

I'm everything.

I'm consciousness.

Oh my God,

This is amazing.

Right?

But it's the ego that's hearing that.

It's the ego that's hearing it and just getting reinforced through this.

I mean,

I do feel like probably every talk I should give now is really the byline should be the traps of spirituality.

And I say all these traps again,

Because I've done them all.

You know,

I make these mistakes as well.

And in that way they serve their purpose.

You see like,

Oh man,

I fell for it again.

I fell for it again.

Not to beat ourselves up,

Not to judge ourselves,

Go,

Oh my God,

I'm such a bad spiritual practitioner.

But there's just,

And I do think in the West in particular,

Where it's a very egocentric society.

And if you look at a lot of new age spirituality,

I at least personally do find a lot of it is just very ego based,

Very me,

Very me based,

Right?

Same thing.

That's very much reinforcing an identity,

Reinforcing specialness,

Reinforcing concepts instead of seeing reality.

And so we have to be careful of these pitfalls.

We have to be careful of them.

We have to be willing to put down the maps more often and just to inquire.

Yeah.

And so Ruth,

When you're asking,

When you're saying here,

You know,

When you ask,

Who am I?

Nothing is there for me,

Just quietness.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That's it.

That's it.

Remember,

This isn't some magical blissful God-like state that we are trying to achieve.

All that has happened,

And I say this simply,

Because of course,

It's so ingrained in us,

This belief in thinking of ourselves,

Of just always thinking about ourselves in our minds and believing that thought created me as a separate independent me is to be real.

We're so believing that.

But that's all that's really happened is we have just,

We live in our,

And I do like the analogy,

Like we put on our VR headset,

We imagine ourselves going through all the,

Oh,

What if I get this?

What if I get,

Oh,

I feel like we did in the meditation about safety.

Oh,

If I can just get these other things,

I'll be safe now.

I mean,

I'll be safe then,

Sorry,

But you're safe now.

If I can just get all these other things,

I'll be more secure.

It's like,

But you're secure now,

Right?

So it's always in the game or kind of in the VR headsets,

Like,

Oh,

I'm,

I'm,

I'm putting myself through all these little,

Oh,

If I can just get there,

Then this will happen.

And I see the little point score go ding,

Ding,

Ding,

Ding,

Ding.

And I think to myself,

Oh,

Isn't this amazing?

Look at the points that I'm getting,

Right?

Or,

Oh my God,

Look what's happening here.

Here comes the log to knock me off because I'm imagining what that criticism's going to feel like,

Or what happens if the,

If the car breaks down,

Or what happens if that bill was bigger than I thought it was going to be?

And oh,

No,

The points are going away,

Right?

And we're,

We're living up there and thinking this is reality.

This is who I am,

Right?

When we feel criticized,

When someone's criticized us and we all get criticism,

In that moment,

It hurts.

Yeah,

We're human.

It should hurt,

Right?

There's a little bit of a punch,

Right?

Just a little bit of punch,

Like,

Oh,

Wow.

Breathe,

Feel,

Okay.

But the problem is that we're still thinking about the criticism three hours later,

Three days later,

Three weeks later,

Sometimes three years later.

We're still playing it over in our head.

Who is it that is upset about the criticism?

There is a thought that I'm upset about being criticized,

And how dare they say that to me?

And I should say this,

And if we were back there again,

This is what I would say to them,

And I would put them in their place.

And there is a,

A,

An assumption that there is a me that this is happening to,

But it is just thoughts that give the appearance of a me that is not me.

And so we've just so identified with this,

This,

This thought created me,

That's never getting enough,

It always needs more.

And,

Oh,

No,

Look,

They're getting more than me.

And,

Oh,

My life,

I made all the wrong decisions.

And why did I do that?

And,

Oh,

No,

Oh,

Look,

This is great.

They just said something really good to me.

And,

Oh,

I just got a bonus.

And,

Oh,

This is amazing.

And now I'm set for life.

And,

Oh,

No,

Because now it's not enough.

And,

You know,

It's just always kind of putting us through this ringer.

You know,

We're just up and down and up and down and up and down.

And that's who we have taken to be us.

That why in the meditation,

When I kind of focused on the safety,

We're like,

We're looking for safety,

We're looking for security,

We have it.

If we have the luxury of being able to think about ourselves in a different time and place,

That's going to make us more safe and secure,

We are clearly safe and secure in this moment.

We clearly have it in this moment,

Right?

Because if there was a tiger in front of us,

We wouldn't be thinking about how can I be more safe for tigers in the future,

Right?

There'd be a tiger in front of you,

You'd deal with it,

Right?

So the fact that we have the luxury to think about it shows that we are safe and secure in this moment.

And that's what we believe,

I've got to get the little mental image of me to feel safe.

And we spend all this time trying to make the mental image of me feel safe,

The mental image of me feel secure,

The mental image of me feel like there's a sense of belonging and feeling like I'm whole.

But the mental image is always,

What's embedded in it is a sense of lack,

A sense of unworthiness.

It's always,

I need a little more.

I mean,

You get something,

You get something,

And it's good,

You got the praise,

You got the bonus,

Now I want more,

Right?

It's never enough,

You get the chocolate cake,

Now I want more,

Right?

It's always wanting more.

And it's always perceiving things that aren't happening.

It maybe takes a thread of something and blows it up into some big catastrophe,

Works through all the terrible things that could happen,

Then it doesn't happen,

We think,

Oh,

Well,

Yeah,

I made sure it didn't happen,

It was never going to happen.

Meanwhile,

Something else was happening,

So we didn't have our attention on what we should have been paying attention to.

So the brainwashing that this thought created me as who I am is incredibly ingrained with us,

And it's incredibly deep within us.

So when I say,

You know,

Oh,

It's just,

You know,

We just misperceived who we are.

It's simple,

And yet,

Please do not think I'm diminishing in any way,

Just how deeply felt it is to us that I am a little separate,

Independent me,

That we're believing that more than we're believing reality.

So in asking the question,

Ruth,

You know,

Who am I,

Right?

And you say,

Well,

There's nothing there for me,

Great,

Great,

We don't want anything there for me,

Right?

There's just quietness,

Yeah.

But then,

You know,

The thoughts come in again,

Well,

There should be more,

There should be more.

Where's the harps?

Where are the French horns?

Where are the angels singing?

Like,

Isn't this to be some spectacular?

So again,

It comes in and thinking,

But I have this image that it's supposed to be something spectacular,

Something to be blissful.

You know,

Bliss is a temporary state,

Bliss is a temporary state,

And can often come when we're really,

Really wound up,

Maybe we're in a really,

You know,

We've been suffering for a couple of days,

There's something that's just been driving us crazy,

And then there's just that moment of,

Of who am I?

And,

Oh,

My God,

Or something in the teachings kind of pierces through,

And you're like,

Oh,

My God,

That's not me.

And there's this big release,

Because we were so bound up.

And so then now there's this big release,

Right?

And with it can come this bliss,

Because we were just holding on to it so tightly for days.

And there can be a deep release,

And we start to assess,

Oh,

This is it.

But the bliss is a temporary state.

And it doesn't often come with it.

But we kind of then think,

Well,

Oh,

Just,

Oh,

There should be more.

All of a sudden,

The voice comes in,

No,

It should be more,

Should be more than this.

And just question that,

If that arises,

Who says there should be more?

Who,

Who is,

It's a thought that is assuming there's something behind it,

And there's nothing behind it.

Right?

There's nothing before the thought.

The separate self didn't exist.

It only arises through the thoughts and then goes away.

It doesn't hide,

It doesn't,

Oh,

It was just kind of a little small back there.

It only exists in the thoughts.

And I do think that that's one of the concepts,

One of the ideas that we have of this,

Is just this,

Oh,

My gosh,

It's just going to be so amazing,

And I'm just going to float around.

And forever,

Everyone's just going to be nice to me,

And I'm never going to have any discomfort,

And nothing will ever go wrong again.

And I'll never have any stress again,

And nothing,

Because I'll just be above all of this,

Right?

We,

We have created this image of enlightenment,

This is the ego's image of enlightenment,

This concept,

That is a truly,

A truly unhelpful concept for us,

Because you're never going to get there.

You're never going to,

You might have those moments of bliss,

Right?

But then what you're trying to imagine this is,

You got to keep grasping at it.

And so it's just,

It just keeps us caught in the hamster wheel,

Just keeps us caught in it.

It's just the ego's way of going,

Oh,

It's just this elusive,

Amazing state,

Try and get there.

Oh,

You had it,

Meredith,

Now you lost it.

Got to get back,

Got to get back.

Who's got to get back?

Like,

What we're questioning is,

Is the two-ness,

Right?

Of saying,

There is no separation here.

Thoughts are arising,

Thoughts are arising,

And it gives the illusion of a,

Of a separate,

Permanent,

Independent self,

Inherently existing self.

So we're questioning that.

This is very,

I'm going to say it's very scientific.

We're questioning it.

There is this assumption that there's a me that's really upset because of something that happened three weeks ago.

There's assumption of me,

And I can't put the thoughts down because there's a me that's so disturbed,

So upset up here,

Right?

Everything else,

I'm perfectly safe,

Perfectly secure,

Nothing wrong in the world,

Nothing wrong in my immediate environment.

But I'm so believing the me that's lying on the ground up here because someone disagreed with me,

Someone had the audacity to do,

To have a different view than me.

My God,

How dare they,

Right?

And we're so believing that,

Thinking that is reality.

Like thinking that is reality.

So we're shining a spotlight on it and saying,

Is there anything there?

It's a thought.

Yeah,

The thought,

But,

But the moment that you question it,

Now that's,

Now you've taken away the thought of,

I can't believe this happened to me.

What did they say to me back there?

They disagreed with me.

And now you're questioning it and you're seeing,

I can't find anything.

Thank goodness,

Because that voice has been a nightmare.

It's never enough.

We're never,

We're never doing things fast enough.

We're never doing things well enough.

Oh,

Get over there.

Your happiness is over there.

We rush over there,

Right?

And then for a moment,

It disappears for a moment and we feel good being reality.

And then it just starts right back up again.

Oh,

Now I got to get over there.

Now I got to get over there.

It's,

It's nature is dissatisfaction.

We're never going to feel safe enough.

We're never going to feel secure enough.

We're never going to feel good enough.

It's never going to allow us to be at ease.

It exists in agitation.

And so not to say,

So Ruth,

You're saying,

So no thoughts,

No feelings,

No anything,

Just silence.

No,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

And even I'm not saying no thinking,

Right?

Thinking is helpful.

Thinking is helpful.

But there's no longer a belief that there is a me behind the thoughts.

Maybe you need to do something later in the day.

And there's a little bit of thought that needs to go into it.

A little bit of planning that needs to go into it.

You're meeting someone.

Oh,

What's the best time of day to leave?

Should I drive?

Should I take the train?

What should I do?

Right?

And so there's thinking and they're saying,

What should I do?

But there's not a believing that there's a me,

A separate,

Solid,

Independent me that's going to get anything out of this once it gets over there.

Right?

So there's just a,

Okay,

Let me think about it.

So there's not agitation.

Oh,

It's got to go exactly the way I said,

If it doesn't go exactly the way I want,

Because I've gone through all the plans and I've stressed about it,

And I've made myself really upset.

But now I've decided the train's going to be the best thing.

And then you get there and the train's late.

And it's like,

Oh no,

That wasn't part of my plan.

I'm devastated.

So no,

You can get there and you can even feel that little bit of like,

Oh,

Oh,

A little disappointment.

Like,

Oh,

The train's going to be two hours late,

Not just 10 minutes late.

Like,

Oh,

Okay.

Feel the disappointment.

Yes.

Feelings,

Feelings,

No problem.

We're never going to not feel,

And we wouldn't want to.

We wouldn't want to.

The difference is there's not a,

This is a nightmare.

How is this happening to me?

This always happens to me.

Things never go right for me.

It's the story of me that just,

Oh,

This is such a disaster.

Like,

Is it a disaster?

The train's going to be late.

Can you go get a cup of coffee?

Can you go for a walk?

Can you just sit?

You're safe.

You're secure.

Why is it that,

You know,

There's all this pent up,

I've got to get over there,

Right?

All the thinking of a me that's got to get somewhere.

And then if I can't get there,

I'm unhappy.

But even the moment I get there,

For a few moments,

I feel relief because the separate self has gone away for a moment because I got there.

But it just starts back up again.

Oh,

This isn't quite what I thought it was going to be.

I said,

Oh,

Oh,

I thought this was going to be more fun.

Oh,

I need this to be over.

Now I want to get home,

Right?

So thinking is okay.

But it's not this endless thinking about me.

And it's not this endless thinking that,

And once I get over there,

Then I'll be happy.

Yeah,

You still got a plan.

There's still thinking.

There's still doing.

There's still decisioning.

There's still choicing.

There's washing the dishes.

There's making the meals.

And there's feelings.

And sometimes we feel a little better than we feel at other times.

In the morning,

Maybe if you're,

I'm a morning person,

My energy is much higher in the morning.

There's a nice feeling that comes along with it.

And by usually two,

Three o'clock,

My energy's come off a little bit.

And I'm not feeling quite as energized.

I'm not feeling quite as good.

I don't have to make a story out of it.

I can see the story wanting to start up.

Oh,

Something's wrong.

Nothing's wrong.

This is just,

Yeah,

I'm just,

The energy's off a little bit.

Or I'm just not feeling particularly well right now.

Like,

Oh,

Okay,

I don't have to make some story.

Oh,

What does this mean?

Am I going to have to cancel classes?

Oh,

No.

And what are they going to think?

That's the me that everything is about me and how is this going to affect me?

Instead of just the recognizing like,

Yeah,

I was feeling a little bit sick right now.

Maybe I'll make some ginger tea.

Maybe I'll lie down if I can.

And if it continues,

Then I'll cancel class.

Okay.

Right.

Oh,

What will they think?

So there is very much this difference between thinking and thinking about me with an attachment to the result,

To the outcome.

And of course,

That attachment is,

If I can just get there,

Then I will finally be complete.

Then I will finally be happy.

But you won't.

How many times have you gotten there?

And then it just starts itself back up again.

It will never lead to satiation.

And so in the silence,

The silence of the mind,

And the mind does tend to be a lot more silent than,

You know,

The quality of the thoughts goes up and the quantity goes way down,

Way down.

So when thinking is appropriate,

When thinking is necessary,

Yeah,

You can think about it.

If you notice there's a little bit of winding up in it,

Right?

You started off just,

Oh,

Yeah,

Just need to plan a little bit.

And you're being mindful of not getting lost in it.

Not thinking my happiness is if it all goes exactly right.

So you can be mindful of that and okay,

And even just be very conscious of just kind of breathing and like,

Oh,

Because it just,

It wants to,

It wants to get attached to that end result.

And then maybe it does,

You know,

Somewhere in the story it starts or in the planning,

A little bit of attachment starts to come on.

Right?

And it's just,

Oh,

Wow.

Oh,

Okay.

I see it now.

Yeah,

I see what happened there.

Breathe and feel it.

Oh,

This is the feeling of being attached to my plans.

This was the feeling of tension of needing it to go a certain way of my happiness was going to be over there.

However,

You can describe it,

Right?

Oh,

This is the feeling of the little separate self.

Here it is.

Okay.

Let's feel it.

Be with it.

Who was going to be happy when they got over there?

Who?

Oh,

It was just thinking.

And now let's see.

And now let's see how the plans go.

Because it's always trying,

Again,

It's about,

You know,

The separate self,

The thought created me is like for these,

It's trying to look for a solid place to land.

If I can just get there,

If I can just understand what that means by consciousness is fundamental,

I can land somewhere and I can stay there,

But there is nowhere to land.

That's the thing.

There is nowhere to land.

There's nothing solid and independent here.

Everything is just,

It's like trying to land in the wave,

Right?

You're just going to fall right through.

So it's about the understanding of the nature of reality.

And we can understand that from an intellectual standpoint.

We can understand intellectually,

Everything is interdependent,

Interconnected,

Impermanent,

Right?

That's not directly knowing,

But intellectually we can understand that to a degree.

And the more that we take that concept and keep seeing in reality how things are playing out,

Right?

It's like,

Oh,

Okay,

It really is.

Everything really is changing.

Everything really truly is interdependent,

Interconnected.

And it starts to become not just intellectual,

But down into a place of knowing.

And there's a trusting in presence,

Right?

There's a trusting in it that I've tried to think my way through my whole life.

It just brought nothing but suffering.

And yet we trust that thought created me so much.

We trust that it could find safety.

It can't.

I mean,

If we're safe now,

If we truly are safe now,

And we're thinking about how to get safety for the thought created me,

Doesn't that tell us right there?

It's never going to find it.

You've got it,

And it won't acknowledge it.

And so it's about trusting presence more.

Not that we can't think,

But in the absence of the grasping at the me that's always got to get something out of everything,

And I've got to put meaning into everything,

And I've got to be at the center of everything.

It's wisdom and compassion that guides us.

So there's a seeing what needs to be done in this moment.

Someone needs some help.

Maybe you need some help,

Right?

Oh,

Okay.

There's a seeing what needs to be done,

Not to make some big story around it.

Oh,

I helped that person,

And now I need to tell everyone about it.

Now I need to feel really good about myself.

And how can I do more of that?

Because that really felt good.

That's the ego inflating itself again.

There was what was happening was someone needed help,

And you stopped on the side of the road,

And you helped them,

Or did whatever you could.

And it's okay,

And then it's over,

And what's happening now?

And now what's happening now,

Right?

And Amy,

And I will get back to the other points here,

And I'm going to get back to your,

I know you tried to clarify,

Or you did clarify for me,

Alice.

You will never be content with things in your head.

Never.

Never.

It is not about finding contentment.

We're thinking about ourselves,

And the separate self through thinking about ourselves.

And remember,

It's always got to be in relationship to something.

So it's got to be in a relationship to,

I want something.

I want something that I think is going to bring me happiness.

Or I don't want something,

Because I think that's going to bring me unhappiness.

So I've got to fix that,

And I've got to figure out how to get this.

So I've got to keep thinking about it,

And thinking about it.

So even when something like,

We feel like,

You know,

You did a great job at work,

And your boss was like,

Man,

You did such a great job,

And I really want to put you in charge of this project right now,

And you're doing great,

And you're really on track to get to the next promotion or something.

And there's a good feeling,

Right?

It's like,

Wow,

That feels good,

Right?

But even that,

It's like,

We can't just stay there and be content with it.

I got to tell someone.

Who can I tell about this?

I'll call this person and tell them now.

And it's like,

We tell them,

We blurt it all out,

And we talk for a few minutes,

Like,

Oh,

Okay,

I need to tell someone else now.

I need to do something else with this.

I need to just keep thinking and thinking.

And what about then,

When I do get that promotion,

And if I do really well in the next project,

And then,

Wow,

I'm going to be so happy when I get there.

So even when the good conditions arise,

Right,

We're not content.

It's not about contentment.

The separate self is not about contentment.

It's agitation.

It's always agitation.

And I'm not saying that it's not useful to think sometimes.

And it is a useful,

Or it's useful to be able to imagine ourselves,

Right,

That I find it is a useful tool if you're planning something.

And so you imagine,

Oh,

I've got to go to the airport tomorrow.

And okay,

I'll get up at six,

And I'll kind of do these things.

And it's like,

Okay,

So there's a little me in there that you're just kind of imagining.

But you don't get caught up in believing that's me,

Because reality is here right now.

I'm just kind of simulating a scenario.

And in simulating that scenario,

The best way to make sure that you're not getting too attached to it,

That you're not believing the simulation over reality,

Is to say then,

Okay,

And now let's see.

I went over the plan.

And now let's see.

Let's see what happens.

Maybe there's going to be a change of plans.

Maybe the plane's going to be late.

Maybe I'll miss the plane.

Maybe the car will break down on the way.

Not in a way I'm saying,

Oh,

My God,

Let me go over all these things and worry about it.

But being open to if that's what's happening,

That's what's happening.

And I'll deal with it.

And I'll deal with it.

So if the car breaks down,

I don't have a meltdown.

Oh,

I knew this was going to happen.

Because I went over it 20 times,

And it still happened.

Because life always,

It's so cruel to me,

Right?

We twist everything.

It's about me.

Right?

It's like you have a car,

Eventually,

It's going to break down.

Eventually,

It's going to happen.

Right?

And then you recognize,

Oh,

Okay,

Car's broken down.

Okay,

Do I have self-service?

What can I do?

Now let me,

Let me do that.

I don't have to be miserable about it.

I don't have to make this.

This is the worst thing in the world.

Cars are breaking down all over the place.

People are missing planes all over the place.

People are disagreeing with each other all over the place.

But the ego,

The thought created me has a meltdown every time these things,

Part of life,

These natural things that are happening,

It has a meltdown every single time.

And we believe that I'm,

That I should still be freaking out about the plane being late two weeks ago.

Or I should still be freaking out about what my neighbor did a month ago.

And if they try and do it again,

This is what I'm going to do.

Right?

And it's like,

Nothing's happening.

And yet we're kind of lost in this scenario where in some way,

I'm being threatened.

Yeah,

That in some way,

I'm being threatened.

And it's like,

I'm not being threatened at all.

Everything's okay.

It's all okay.

So the contentment,

The contentment,

Amy,

Is all as a concept,

Contentment,

Ease,

Peace.

It's the absence of grasping,

The absence of needing to get somewhere to find more happiness,

The absence of pushing something away that you think is going to bring you unhappiness.

And all of that is happening up in our thoughts,

In our thoughts,

The thought created me.

And in the absence of the grasping,

The clinging,

The attachment,

Again,

All kind of concepts pointing to the same thing.

In the absence of that,

There's contentment.

You don't need to add anything on to this moment.

You don't need to push anything away.

Even contentment,

You know,

We have,

You know,

We give ourselves,

Um,

You know,

It is a concept,

It becomes more of a concept in our mind that,

Oh,

Once I get through this project,

Once I get through this busy period in my life,

Then I'm going to be able to sit and relax.

And it's going to be so amazing.

And oh,

And we imagine how great it's going to feel.

I'm going to sit down and I'm just going to do nothing.

And then that day eventually arrives.

And we go,

This is the day we wake up and we go,

It's done,

The project's done,

The busy-ness of whatever was going on is done.

And now I'm going to do nothing.

And we sit in the chair,

And the little mind starts spinning up.

I didn't mean nothing.

Go get a book,

Go get your iPad,

Go get your phone,

Time to check your messages,

Go get a cup of tea,

Go get something to eat.

Oh,

How long can I sit here and do nothing for?

This is boring.

So the problem is that when we get to those moments,

Or it's just the end of the day,

Or it's finally like you're busy morning and you,

Oh,

It's going to be a nice lunch that you're going to sit down and relax that you're,

You're having just lunch on your own.

And you're thinking it's going to be nice and peaceful and content.

The mind is still spinning over what happened earlier in the day,

Or it's going back,

What's going to happen next.

It will never allow you to be content.

That is not its nature.

Contentment is not its nature.

Our practice is to notice that.

When you're feeling there's nothing going on,

And you're feeling uh,

Uncontent,

Discontent,

Discontentment,

Question it.

Who's feeling discontented?

Who?

Because it will not allow you to sit and enjoy.

It will not allow all the,

The hard work that you put into something.

And then for,

For what?

To be able to finally relax.

Like we tell ourselves,

There's that,

That anonymous poem.

And I'll kind of paraphrase this where it says,

At first I was,

At first I was dying to finish high school so I could get to college.

And then I was dying to finish college so I could get a job.

And then I was dying to get my job so I could get married.

And then I was dying to get married so I could have kids.

Then I was dying for the kids to grow up and get out of the house so I could retire.

And then I realized that I was dying.

And I forgot to live.

And I've,

I have paraphrased that a bit,

But that's the general gist of it.

We're always thinking that our happiness is in the future.

Enlightenment is in the future.

Self-realization is in the future.

Nothing happens in the future.

It always,

Only happens now,

By the way.

Nothing happens in the future.

But it's always putting our happiness there.

And then the moment we get there,

It's just,

What next?

You get to the beautiful beach resort.

You've been working really hard.

You're on holiday.

Oh,

What should we do now?

Well,

Let's get a drink.

Oh,

Maybe we should rent those boats over there.

Maybe we should do this.

What are we going to do tomorrow?

Where should we go out for dinner?

Right?

Just never,

Never,

Never allowing us to be content.

And so that is a great place to inquire,

Who is it that needs to add something on to this moment?

There's nothing that needs to be done.

You're perfectly safe.

You're perfectly secure.

Everything is okay.

Who is it that can't sit there and be okay?

You'll never be able to relax.

And it is,

Amy,

It's a rat race.

It's a rat race.

And this is why,

Philippa,

To your point,

One of the recommendations that I often give here is,

As part of your practice,

Sit and do nothing.

Not meditate.

Just sit and do nothing for three minutes,

Four minutes,

Five minutes.

Notice how quickly the mind spins up,

Right?

Because we've got to be able to see it.

We've put the map down,

Right?

And then to be able to see it.

Oh,

Oh,

There it is.

I can't sit here and be content.

You need to see it and to question it.

Who is it that can't sit here for three minutes?

Who is it that needs something else?

There's a thought that's saying you need something,

And you're believing that you're behind that thought truly needing it.

It's just an assumption that's been made,

An assumption that we have assumed our entire lives.

Everyone believes it,

And so we've believed it,

And it's been part of our conditioning.

But part of your conditioning also,

Amy,

And Philippa,

And Chris,

And everyone here,

Part of your conditioning and part of the conditioning here was there was a point to the suffering of it that said,

I don't want to do this anymore.

This is painful.

And so we come on a spiritual path,

Right?

And on the spiritual path,

We do start to find moments of a little more ease,

Moments of more contentment,

Moments of more peace.

But there is a point on the spiritual path where we start going off of it without realizing it,

We're turning it into things.

We're turning enlightenment into an identity,

We're turning the concepts into what we think are reality,

And getting lost in the concepts,

Getting lost in the maps,

Just a million ways in which the separate self just kind of reinforces itself back in on spirituality.

But the conditions are that you've come,

That you're on a spiritual path,

You're on some kind of path,

You're here,

You're on some kind of path that has said,

I don't want the suffering anymore.

And it is the ego that says it doesn't want the suffering anymore.

So it is the ego that gets us started on here.

But the ego is also the obstacle,

Not that it needs to be destroyed,

Not that it needs to be annihilated,

And not that it is all bad.

I think that referencing of ourselves to some degree,

There can be a little bit of usefulness to it,

As long as we don't mistake it for who we are.

So I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing the ego here,

Because it's not a real thing,

First of all,

But there is a reference to some identification in there that can be useful.

But it does get very whipped up into a frenzy.

And it misinterprets what's going on so much of the time.

Because it has this reference point of me as the center of the universe.

I'm very self-centered,

Everything's about me.

And why did they do that over there?

How's that affecting me?

They didn't look at me the right way,

Or they gave me a funny look.

I don't even know them,

But oh,

Let's make that about me.

So it makes everything about me and kind of twists our perception of what's really going on.

And through this,

We misidentify and start thinking,

Well,

That's who I am.

And so,

It's not that we're trying to destroy it,

You cannot destroy an illusion.

But we're trying to put a spotlight on the thoughts to see that there is nothing behind it,

Nothing solid,

Independent behind it.

And every time you do that,

What you will notice is any grasping,

Of course,

Falls away immediately.

Because the thought created me is grasping,

You put a spotlight on it.

Who is it that's grasping at that?

Can't find it.

And all of a sudden,

It's,

Oh,

Seeing,

Hearing,

Touching,

Tasting,

Smelling,

Even thinking,

But without a thinker.

Oh,

I think I'll get a cup of tea.

Okay.

Okay.

I'll get a cup of tea.

I'm not going to be any happier when I get the cup of tea.

But just okay,

There's a feeling of maybe it's a little cool and you're thinking there's a cup of tea.

Okay,

So you're not rushing to get the cup of tea,

There's just a,

Now I'll get the cup of tea,

Contentment in making the cup of tea,

Contentment in drinking the cup of tea.

No problem.

No problem.

So,

The absence of all the grasping is the peace,

The contentment,

The ease.

Now,

You'll never find peace,

Contentment in the grasping.

Never,

Never,

Not possible.

Yes,

Chris,

Newsflash.

It is not always about you.

It is never about you.

I mean,

That's the thing in reality.

It is never about you.

Now,

Alice,

I know,

And I hope you're still here,

My dear,

Because I hope I can still get back to your point.

I know we kind of,

When the questions come in,

I kind of get a little stuck down there on them.

And Dana,

And I'll get to your question as well.

Oh,

And thank you,

Julie,

I didn't know you were here.

Thank you,

Julie.

Thanks for the donation.

Okay,

So I'm going to leave yours,

Because I'm not entirely sure where you're going with that,

Alice.

I did see your point here.

And Dana,

Oh,

And I did answer.

Okay,

Thanks.

Thanks,

Because I just came across your question,

Dana.

Yeah,

Yeah,

We do,

And I will just address again,

We do need to do something.

Otherwise,

The machine is just going to keep going as it is.

But we have to be careful in the doing of the meditation,

Of the coming to the Dharma talks,

That we don't hold tightly to them,

That we don't start grasping at them.

Oh,

This is the one,

Now I've got it,

I got it for a moment,

Right?

And just let the words wash over you.

If a question arises,

And put it in the comments,

Yeah,

Right?

But just be very relaxed around this.

I mean,

That's also,

I find that we can get very uptight,

I can force this to happen,

I can make this happen sooner.

If I just work harder,

And we just did a talk on this not too long ago,

That's just more grasping.

That's just,

Again,

The way the ego just kind of,

We don't realize,

Like,

You can't force this to happen,

You can't make this happen.

It's the Zen saying,

Enlightenment is an accident,

But practice makes you accident-prone.

Yeah,

Don't get attached to it.

Some people,

Yeah,

They meditate for a few years,

They attend a few Dharma talks,

And,

And,

You know,

They're seeing through the illusion,

Right?

Other people,

It can be 10 years,

Can be 20 years,

Can be 30 years.

You know,

You,

We never know the conditions of how this is going to happen.

And I do find personally,

That just that is such a sense of ease.

I'm not making this happen either.

So,

If you have a moment,

Or I have a moment,

There's a mindless moment,

There was a little bit of getting lost in it for a minute.

It's just,

Oh,

I forgot for a moment,

I forgot,

Right?

If it's something really sticky,

Yeah,

Feel it,

Be with it.

Ooh,

Okay,

Wow,

That really,

Ooh,

That came across,

Yeah.

And it's okay to feel the disappointment,

It's okay to feel the anxiety,

Or the stress,

Or the fear,

Whatever it is,

It's,

Whatever is happening,

It's okay to feel,

The feelings are happening,

They are real.

And the more that we accept it,

Even just,

And Julie,

I think you and then Chris,

Also on here,

A different Chris,

Who's not in the comments,

But I think the other Chris from Australia is in here,

Where we had,

I'd exchanged messages with you guys separately,

But like having a difficult meditation,

Having a struggling meditation,

And how we get so like,

Oh,

You know,

It's a struggling meditation.

And of course,

We all have meditations where the mind is a little bit busier,

Right?

You can't,

Just because we're sitting to meditate doesn't mean that all of a sudden,

The mind goes quiet.

But the moment that you recognize and you just say,

Oh,

Mine's a little busy.

Okay.

Okay,

Mine's busy.

Mine's racing.

That's okay.

Yeah,

It's okay.

The mind's a little racing.

As soon as you do that,

You're a little bit,

You're not lost in it,

And trying to force it to stop.

It's just acknowledging,

Yeah,

The mind's racing.

No problem.

It's not a problem.

It's not a problem.

And so,

As this,

As we believe less in the illusion,

The separate me in the illusion,

The thought created me,

And trust more living in reality,

And I say living,

Being reality,

I should say being reality,

Trusting presence more over the thought created me.

We can't make that happen.

But every time you catch it,

That you just got a little bit of loss,

Don't make a big deal out of it.

And I think we do,

We make such a big deal.

I had it,

Now I've lost it.

And what can I do?

And I better find a quick guided meditation to get back,

Or I better find a book to give me the words to get back.

And of all the things that we could do,

Those are relatively skillful things.

But I would say just,

Yeah,

I just got a little lost for a bit.

Who is it that got lost?

Who was it that got lost?

Oh,

In the relaxing around that,

You're no longer caught up,

You're no longer lost in it.

I do think there's a lot of tension,

A lot of grasping at this as well.

And the more that we can relax around it,

And just,

Yeah,

Mine's a little busy.

Oh,

The mind,

You know,

Oh,

I said something stupid back there.

Yeah.

Okay.

If no one was hurt,

No apologies,

And just,

Yeah,

It's going to happen.

It's going to happen.

You're not going to all of a sudden not make mistakes anymore.

Again,

It's not like all of a sudden you become the most charming person in the room.

I think that's one of the things that we think about it.

I'm going to all of a sudden be so charismatic,

And I'm always going to know how to say the right thing,

And everyone's going to see me as so special.

And no,

You're still going to make mistakes.

You're still going to say stupid things.

Everyone does.

Even the most eloquent speakers in the world do.

It's just you just like,

Oh,

Okay,

Feel that.

Oh,

A little embarrassment.

Feel that.

Oh,

Not your best moment back there.

Feel that.

You know,

Oh,

Okay,

Yeah,

That's what embarrassment feels like.

Oh,

Yeah,

It was just a little tension in the body,

Maybe a little self-compassion.

Oh,

Sweetheart,

You're okay.

You're okay.

Everyone makes mistakes.

Yeah,

You're right,

Yeah.

Just like me,

Millions of people around the world are saying something stupid right now.

Yeah,

Okay,

Okay,

Right?

So kind of in those ways,

Self-compassion,

We use duality as a way,

Use the self to dissolve the self because we pull the argument out from it,

Right?

So we come in to comfort it in a way,

And if I'm petting here,

Like the higher up we pet,

The more comforting,

Like if you were comforting a child,

You'd be like,

Oh,

Sweetheart,

Sweetheart,

It's okay.

Everybody makes mistakes,

Sweetheart.

It's okay.

It's okay,

Right?

You wouldn't say,

Oh,

You're so bad.

You shouldn't do that.

Next time,

Don't do it again.

You know,

Just,

Yeah,

Sweetheart,

It's okay,

Right?

So we kind of use the self in a way that disarms it because we're bringing kindness and compassion,

And by pulling the argument because it always needs the agitation,

I shouldn't have done that.

I shouldn't have said this.

What does this mean?

Everyone's going to think I'm a loser.

Now you've pulled all that out from it,

And you've essentially dissolved the self in so doing.

So just to go easier on ourselves,

Don't take this so seriously.

Don't take yourself so seriously.

That would be,

Yeah,

Don't take yourself so seriously.

You're human.

Don't try to be a god.

We're not trying to be gods.

You're human.

And yeah,

Felipe,

There are practices to calm the mind,

But sometimes even there's just busy minds,

And no problem.

You know,

Meditation in itself is a practice to calm the mind.

All meditations,

I think,

I would say,

Are basically every year,

All meditations are to calm the mind.

Some concentration type meditations,

Probably a little bit more,

I guess actually maybe more open awareness meditations where we're just kind of letting what arises arises.

But even that in itself,

Because you're open to it,

The mind just kind of settles on there.

But some days,

There's just something going on,

And it's just the mind is racing.

And just allow it to race.

That's okay.

Just say,

Yeah,

Mind is racing.

It's a racing meditation,

Racing mind meditation.

And even,

And as I'd said to you,

Julie,

If you sit,

If you're able to sit in the meditation with the mind racing,

And you don't get up,

That also is just incredibly beneficial.

Because normally the moment it's like,

Oh,

The mind's racing,

I might as well not even bother meditating.

Forget it.

Right?

This isn't comfortable.

This doesn't feel good anymore,

So I don't want to do it.

And so the fact that you can sit there and say,

Yeah,

There's a little discomfort,

There's a little bit of racing,

But I'm going to wait till the bell rings.

Right?

I'm going to just wait till the bell rings.

Right?

So there's something,

You know,

We're not,

The mind's always just kind of like,

Oh,

Just move,

Just move,

Just go so quickly.

You know,

Just get out of here,

Get somewhere else.

And the thing is too,

You're going to get somewhere else,

And it's still going to be the racing mind.

It's just sometimes you got to let the mind,

Just let it race,

Say it's okay.

Yeah.

And of course the awareness of the breath is such a key to this,

Such a key to,

You know,

Coming in and feeling what's here,

Using the breath as a way to relax.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'll go back because I think,

Did you have another question here,

Alice?

Okay.

You're saying going back to the map,

The map is knowledge,

But does the ego interpret it as wisdom?

I'm not saying the map is knowledge.

I'm saying the map is a concept.

The map is a concept that's pointing to something.

And then the wisdom,

The wisdom,

The ego interprets the map as reality,

Not as a representation.

I think that's where you're going with this.

The ego interprets the map as the thing,

Instead of what,

Instead of pointing to reality.

And the wisdom,

Of course,

Comes from the questioning of it.

It's not really,

The wisdom isn't,

I mean,

There can be a little bit,

I will say a little bit in Dharma talks and reading books,

A little bit.

But really the wisdom comes from,

You're lost in the thought,

You're lost in the map,

Maybe it's the map of spirituality.

And that's what I was particularly pointing to in the Dharma talk.

You're lost in thinking,

Oh,

We're all one.

This is all consciousness.

Consciousness is fundamental.

And I'm not disagreeing with the concepts.

In fact,

Especially as I said,

I agree with the concept that consciousness is fundamental as a concept.

That's the only way I can kind of know it as a concept.

But the wisdom comes from recognizing,

Oh,

I'm getting lost in the map.

And who is it that thinks they're consciousness?

Right?

Who am I?

What am I?

And in asking the question,

We're putting the map down.

We're putting the concept that consciousness is fundamental down and being reality.

And that's the wisdom.

That's the wisdom.

And you start to trust this more.

Because you realize you didn't fall apart.

You didn't become nothing.

In fact,

Just if there was a sense of ease,

Of contentment,

Of not needing to add anything on to this moment,

Of not needing to push anything away,

Still doing,

Still moving through life.

You need to feed the dogs,

Need to do the dishes,

Time to get dinner ready,

But just no doer in there,

Creating tension and stress.

And I'm going to be so happy once I get to the other side of this,

Because you're never going to get the happiness then.

And then you get a little lost,

Right?

And you get a little lost in,

Oh,

I was there.

What was that?

That was so amazing.

That felt so good,

Right?

And we start to think about the map again.

And then I'll put the map down.

Who am I?

What am I?

Where's the doer?

Right?

And you just keep questioning,

Where's the thinker?

Where's the planner?

Where's the decision maker?

There's always behind all these activities,

Behind all of these verbs,

There is the idea that there is a solid independent thing.

This is the assumption that we just let slide.

And it's that assumption that there's a solid me behind,

A noun behind each of these verbs.

And it needs something in order to feel more complete.

And this is all just a fantasy in our minds.

We set up the idea that I'm lacking in my mind,

And then I stay in that sense of lacking in my mind,

Projecting all my happiness on some future event,

Or being able to rewrite some past event,

Only to have,

Even in the past,

Kind of feeling for a moment,

Oh,

Yeah,

If it had just gone that way,

I'd feel okay.

And then for a moment,

I feel like,

Yeah,

Maybe a sense of relief,

And then it just starts back up again.

Or what if I just get to that next event,

And we're still not content,

We're still not able to be happy,

We're still not able to be at ease.

For a moment,

It falls away,

Because we got there,

And then it just starts right back up again.

Just endless,

Endless.

And so,

You know,

It's just the notice,

Oh,

There it is.

Yeah.

And as the more that you do this,

And the more that you really question directly,

By putting down the map and asking,

You know,

Who am I?

What am I?

I even find what am I is better.

Because on a relative basis,

What am I kind of takes any identity out of it?

For me,

At least here,

When I said,

What am I?

No,

But then who is it that's going to be happy when they get over there?

Who is it that needs to get this?

Who is it that wants the praise?

Who is it that fears the criticism?

Who is it that wants the comfort?

Who is it that fears the discomfort?

We just keep shining a spotlight on it.

And then all of a sudden,

You know,

The map's not needed,

Because we're being reality.

The map's not needed.

It's being reality.

And there is a trusting in this more.

And it's really in the beginning,

And I would say it's faith,

There is faith required on this path.

I mean,

I do talk about faith,

Not hugely,

But it is something that's important.

It's not blind faith,

But it's verified faith.

Because we have all had enough experiences,

We've had enough moments where we were feeling anxiety,

We were feeling suffering,

We were feeling upset about something.

And we noticed it,

And we were mindful,

We breathe through it.

Oh,

You know,

It's like,

Wow,

There's the anxiety,

And it's okay to feel the anxiety.

And we breathe,

And we feel it in the bodies,

In our body,

And starts to settle down.

It's like,

Wow,

Who was anxious?

Who was anxious?

Can't find it.

Can't find it.

So we've had enough instances that we have done this,

That we've done the work.

And what I'm suggesting is that we do acknowledge that every time we let go of what it is that we were freaking out about,

The anxiety,

The stress,

The worrying,

Whatever it There was an act of faith in questioning it,

Because we so believe that's true.

And really,

Everything in our instinct is saying,

Don't turn away from the thoughts,

Don't turn away from the worries,

Don't turn away from the anxiety.

There is a moment of faith of saying,

Okay,

It's time to try this.

It's time to question this.

Time to put down the map.

And as we continue doing it,

There's verified faith,

Right?

Because we see the results.

I didn't fall apart.

I didn't forget my name.

I didn't forget to eat.

I didn't forget that I had a class scheduled for 12.

Like,

You're not,

It's not like all of a sudden you just forget everything,

And you fall apart.

I think that's what we imagine.

I'm going to turn into this jellyfish,

This blubbering jellyfish,

And I won't be able to function.

There's still a brain here,

Brain processing happening,

Trying to figure out what's going on,

And I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

I'm not going to be able to function.

There's other inquiry phrases,

From where does the I-thought arise?

I find that just stops the mind.

Where is that I-thought from?

Where is it arising?

Again,

All of these are like Koans.

Koans are meant to stop the mind.

There's not meant to be an answer.

It's meant to stop the mind.

When you ask the question,

And for a lot of the stuff,

You're kind of moving along and you're just asking it.

Oh,

From where did that thought arise?

Where did that I-thought arise?

Sorry,

From where did that I-thought arise?

Because just a little bit of thinking was going on.

There wasn't a lot of tension.

There wasn't a lot of anxiety,

But just a little bit of questioning.

And in that moment,

Again,

There's a slowing down.

There's whatever you're doing,

All of a sudden,

There's a feeling of being okay with what you're doing,

Because most of the time,

We really are safe and okay.

And now,

How you're feeling inside is matching the reality that you're safe and okay.

And whatever you're doing,

The dishes,

The laundry,

Washing the dogs,

Whatever you're doing,

Suddenly becomes quite pleasant.

It's an engaging activity.

This is fine.

Are you just sitting in the chair?

Like,

No problem.

But for the more intense emotions,

Then I really do think we've got to come in and feel those.

I think that is so important.

Acknowledge them first,

Right?

Recognize what it is.

Oh,

Here's fear.

Here's anxiety.

Here's stress.

Here's unworthiness.

Here's jealousy.

Here's envy.

It doesn't matter what it is.

It's a normal human emotion.

You're not any different.

There's nothing wrong with you for having it.

You don't have to announce it on Facebook,

What's going on,

Just for you to know,

To recognize it.

Because the moment you can label that,

You start to dial down some of the fear centers of your brain,

Right?

The amygdala starts to become less active.

And so,

You know,

Just right there,

You're no longer in it.

You're just getting a little bit of space from it and going,

Wow,

There's fear.

But then come in and feel it,

Like we fear feeling the fear.

Just come in and feel it.

Just breathe and,

Oh,

Here's fear.

This is fear.

Don't get lost in the story of the fear,

But the feeling of fear.

Okay,

It's okay to feel fear.

When I'm doing this with my hands,

What I'm,

Is you're breathing in,

Creating space for the feelings of fear.

As you exhale,

There's just kind of a softening around it.

We're not pushing it away.

We're not trying to change it.

We're just saying it's okay that you're here,

Fear.

Wow,

It's okay.

And as you do that,

Because you're no longer lost in the story that was creating the fear,

And you're with the feelings with what's here,

You start to feel a little more relaxed.

You start to feel a little more at ease.

You start to realize,

Yeah,

I really am safe.

And from there,

You can inquire,

Who was afraid?

Who was afraid?

I can't find them now.

Because it was just a thought that assumed there was a something behind it.

And that something I thought was me.

And then the jig is up.

Being reality,

You're okay.

Maybe there's still a little bit of tension in the body,

But it's not a problem.

You're not pushing back on it.

You're not identifying.

You've taken your attention away from the thought created me.

You've seen that's not me.

And it just lasts for a few minutes.

Great.

Just a few minutes.

And it comes back again.

Repeat.

Wow,

Here's the fear again.

Or maybe now you can even,

And I've talked about this before too,

I do find the more that we stay with what's here,

There's often layers of our emotions in there.

Like maybe the first one,

Maybe it comes up as anxiety at first.

And then behind the anxiety or behind the jealousy,

There's fear,

Right?

Or then maybe it's the,

Oh,

But what if I don't,

You know,

And behind that is the sense,

But what if I'm no longer a part of the tribe,

Right?

So much of our fears are about,

You know,

I made a mistake,

Something happened,

I'm having a disagreement with someone and I'm going to get kicked out of the tribe.

And for our brain,

That feels like death.

Because for a long time,

If we had been kicked out of the tribe,

It would have been death.

And so,

Meaning it would have been very difficult for us to survive on our own.

And so,

You know,

A lot of the times too,

We're kind of trying to,

You know,

These old survival instincts in our brain,

You know,

Wired for a different world than the reality of what we live in.

And so the conventional reality of what we live in.

And so to keep going through the practices so that we can keep dialing back the fear in the brain,

The anxiety in the brain,

The there's not going to be enough for me,

That's what's always behind jealousy.

Like we feel like,

Oh,

I shouldn't feel jealousy,

I shouldn't feel envy.

But that's what's behind it or behind the comparing,

Oh,

There's not going to be enough for me.

Yeah,

Oh,

Sweetheart.

Yeah,

It's okay.

There's enough for you.

It's okay.

Right?

We can talk to ourselves in a very sweet and kind way,

Right?

Using all the tools that we have available to us.

But I do suggest that we always at the end ask,

And who was it that was jealous?

Who was it that was afraid?

Who was it that was anxious?

The more that we can do that,

Really like we quiet down everything in the body.

And there's a sense of feeling okay.

But we haven't really severed the belief that that's me,

Not me.

We've just quieted it down.

And so the questioning in this way of direct inquiry,

Of self-inquiry,

Who was upset?

Who was worried?

Who thought they were going to be kicked out of the group?

Right?

That's really putting the spotlight in a very profound way,

In a very wise way.

Not sure where we kind of got off on that.

But hopefully that was helpful.

And hi,

Sandy.

Good to see you.

Oh,

Yes.

So thanks,

Alice.

And thank you for the donation,

Alice.

Thank you.

Okay,

Florence.

And yeah,

I do put all these talks up on Insight Timer.

So sorry,

Because we've been,

Yeah,

We've almost been going for two hours.

So I'll just kind of look,

See if there's one other question that I've missed.

Because I feel like back here,

There might have been.

And yes,

Allison,

I hope you're feeling better,

Too.

I hope you're feeling better.

Yeah,

Chris,

I'll just echo your point there.

Happiness is in the being.

Yeah.

And I don't know that I would even say happiness,

Because we have such a,

It can mean something very different to everyone,

But I would say the peace,

The peace,

The absence of the grasping,

The absence of the grasping.

Oh,

And Rita,

I'm glad it was what you needed for your morning walk.

Okay.

Oh,

And Moj,

Good to see you.

Okay,

Sorry,

This was an hour ago.

I'm not sure if you're still here.

So a me with thoughts,

Feeling,

And all of it with no attachment to any of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thinking is not the problem.

This is what we think,

That thinking is the problem,

And that we're going to go around with no thoughts.

Thinking is not a problem.

The thinker behind the thinking,

The assumption that there is a thinker behind the thinking,

And that thinker is me,

That's the problem.

That's where the attachment comes in.

That's where the attachment comes in.

So just catching that,

Noticing,

Oh,

Thinking,

Thinking,

No problem.

Where's the thinker?

Because we do have to think about things sometimes,

Right?

We do.

It's thinking is useful.

Let's not throw all this out.

Thinking can be very,

Very helpful and useful.

But just to keep a check on that,

Oh,

Where's the thinker?

So then,

Because it's the thinker that comes in that gives it the thoughts,

The frenzy that speeds them up,

That brings in the attachment,

The grasping,

The clinging.

And so every time you can question it,

Oh,

Where's the thinker?

Can't find it?

Oh,

Okay.

Thinking,

No problem.

No problem.

Thinking,

No feeling,

No problem.

No feeler.

Doing,

No problem.

No doer.

It's this assumption that there is something,

You know,

There's this everything,

Everything is an activity.

Everything is an activity.

Everything is constantly changing and arising interdependently,

Interconnected.

So this is what's happening.

There's no solid thing behind any of this.

And we see this in the entire universe.

We look out in the universe and we go,

Yep,

I can see everything is changing.

Everything is interdependent,

Interconnected.

Right now,

That mountain behind me back there,

And you can probably see it's very windy here,

It's changing right now because of the wind,

Because of the warmth in the desert coming from the cooler waters up north,

Right?

It brings this thermal wind in here.

And so because of those conditions,

Sand is being moved on the mountain up there.

It's shifting,

It's changing,

Right?

Then maybe a rock starts to fall down and that starts to do a little bit more of a dent.

It's all changing,

But there's nothing solid and independent there.

And we can see that everywhere because eventually enough changing,

Changing,

Changing,

No mountain.

We don't find at the end and go,

Oh,

There's the little solid mountain in there.

No,

It eventually just all goes.

Then maybe it goes so deep and now it's a crevice in the water or in the ground or what do we call that?

A divot or something,

Right?

Because enough changing and now it's changed into that.

And so we see this,

Everything,

The trees,

The sky,

The clouds,

Everything,

Everything,

Everything changing,

Interconnected,

Interdependent.

And then we have the audacity to say,

But no,

Not me.

I'm special.

There's something solid and permanent here.

And that belief in that solid and permanent thing is where all of our suffering is coming from.

It doesn't mean the seeing that that's not me doesn't stop the thinking.

It does,

It does.

Mojo,

I'll give you this.

It drastically reduces the quantity of our thoughts because the little me is just going on and on and on about the same things that was going on about yesterday and the day before that and the day before that.

And the character slightly changes and the plot slightly changed,

But it's still,

I need more of that.

I need to get that.

And I don't want that,

Right?

It's still the same stuff,

Desire and fear,

Desire and fear.

You know,

It's just going over the same things.

It's never finding what it wants like that.

We should look at that and go,

Wow,

That is not very effective.

Yesterday I spent all day thinking about what I want and what I don't want.

Didn't bring me happiness,

Brought me anxiety,

Stress,

Suffering,

Probably brought problems in my relationships,

Misunderstandings.

And then I get up today and then we'll do the same thing over again.

It's not working,

Right?

It only brings suffering.

It only brings suffering.

So the quantity of thoughts goes way down.

And even when one starts to get a little bit of a foothold,

Starts going,

It's just,

There's a seeing,

Oh,

That's not me.

That's not me.

Right?

And that's what I'm saying,

Like,

You know,

Ask the questions.

But there is a point where you've done the work so much where it's,

And not saying that we don't do the practices.

What I'm saying here is that there's 90% of it is just,

Oh,

That's not me.

A little bit starts to,

Oh,

Just a little habit,

A little thought habit starts to,

Oh,

It's not me.

Right?

And then it's,

Oh,

What am I?

From where did that thought arise?

Who was upset?

Who was disappointed?

Right?

Questioning.

Oh,

And then feeling because maybe a little fear came in.

Okay,

Feeling.

So using our practices,

Right?

Using our practices.

And in so doing that,

The quantity of our thoughts goes way down.

The quality goes way up.

So we're still thinking,

It's just that we're not thinking as much.

We're still doing,

Suddenly I find a lot of the things that we did,

There's,

I mean,

Some of the things that I used to do,

I would say don't bring as much interest anymore.

But still doing happening,

And just without a doer.

And when it starts to come in,

When it starts to come in,

And it does still,

And then it's just,

Oh,

Where's the doer?

Oh,

And then you just go back to what it is that you're doing.

But in general,

In general speaking,

Though,

You know,

Core interests will stay the same.

I like to cook.

I like to go into the garden.

I love my dogs.

I like to take my dogs for walks.

I like to go for long walks.

I love Taylor Swift.

I can't,

You know,

I still like a lot of these things.

None of those things have changed.

Right?

And so there's just not a problem with it.

There's just no problem with these things,

Right?

It's like cooking,

But I'm not becoming,

I'm not finding myself in the cooking.

Meditating still,

Yeah,

You know,

Meditating.

But it's not like,

None of it's an identity.

It's just doing.

It's just doing.

It's just doing.

So,

And feeling.

Again,

Feelings come and go,

And they change.

And sometimes the feelings are a little more pleasant than others,

But not making a big deal about it.

Noticing if a big deal starts being made about it,

And then going,

Oh,

Well,

You know,

That's,

Oh,

Who's upset that they're not feeling good?

Who feels,

Who's building a big story around this,

Right?

Oh,

What's building a big story around this?

Oh,

Right?

And questioning it.

So,

Yeah,

It's not like we just stop.

I do,

And this might be where you're coming from,

Moj,

And I know from what Eckhart Tolle has described,

With a sudden awakening,

It can be very destabilizing.

It can be very,

You know,

Very,

Actually,

I'll just say very destabilizing.

Very destabilizing to the point,

And Stephen Taylor wrote a book about this,

About people going through sudden awakenings.

Like,

In the past,

Many were locked up in insane asylums because they didn't know what had happened.

Everyone else thought,

Oh,

My God,

You know,

It was just very destabilizing.

On a gradual path,

It's not nearly as destabilizing.

There's moments,

There'll be little moments sometimes,

Like,

Oh,

My God,

Kind of stops you dead in your tracks,

But it's not,

It's not like you're going to find yourself sitting on a park bench for the next two months and not knowing what to do.

So I wouldn't get,

I mean,

That's one of the benefits on a gradual path is that we have an intellectual understanding.

We,

We,

It kind of happens gradually.

Yeah.

No,

Chris,

You're right.

There's nothing wrong with being a Swifty.

I love Taylor Swift.

I,

I can't choose that.

I can't choose that.

I just do.

I just do.

I do like her.

And I like her new album.

Okay.

And Alice,

Thank you.

And there was another donation because I see there was more on there.

And so whoever,

It's not coming up on the,

I apologize that I'm not thanking that person.

Oh,

There it is.

Michelle.

Thank you.

Thank you,

Michelle from Ohio.

Thank you.

And thank you,

Ruth.

So yes,

So we'll come to an end here now.

And I will put the talk up on insight timer.

And I hope that we just can notice a little bit more where we're maybe getting a little bit too attached to the map,

Thinking the map is reality when the map is just the map.

We need concepts.

We need concepts to be able to communicate.

But if we're endlessly studying the map,

We are never going to know the terrain.

And this is where we just really got to remember our practices.

And,

And I do find direct inquiry,

Self-inquiry to be just such an incredibly powerful practice for ensuring that we stay with the not two,

Not one,

That we don't jump from not two to,

Oh,

Well,

I'm this.

So yeah,

Just don't confuse the map for the territory.

And see for yourself,

This is,

No one can do this for you.

We can all help each other.

And that's what we're doing here,

Right?

We're all,

In the words of Ram Dass,

We're all walking each other home.

And I genuinely believe that each of us is helping each other here.

Each of you helps me on this path.

So,

You know,

This,

This is very,

Very useful.

This is helpful for us to,

To be able to discuss these concepts and ideas.

But the wisdom comes from having the faith to take what you intellectually understand and then leap off into the present moment to question it.

Remember,

And it's a Tibetan text where,

I think it's a Tibetan text,

Faith enters,

Wisdom follows.

So sometimes we just got to have some faith and say,

I got to question it,

That faith being the impetus for the inquiry.

What is it that's upset?

Who's upset?

You're giving us that,

You know,

Just to be able to let go a little bit of the thoughts to question it.

So,

Yeah,

I do find faith is also important in this path and something that's often minimized.

So maybe we'll do another talk on that soon.

So,

Okay.

Thank you all.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for spending your Sunday here with me.

Thank you.

And I will see you all next Sunday.

Thank you.

Reviews

For me, I hear so much more the second time around. I understand so much more the second. And if I’m being honest, I think my ego kicks into overdrive during the live saying things like, you better make good comments or you better ask good questions. lol lol I am grateful to be able to listen to it a second time 💜💙