MenoPAUSE S2E9: Healing The High Achiever With Lori Saitz

Lori Saitz is the founder and CEO of Zen Rabbit and host of the podcast “Fine is a 4-Letter Word.” An award-winning author, speaker, and broadcaster, Lori is on a mission to teach the world to be calm and grounded no matter what’s going on.

Please note: This track may include some explicit language.

Transcript

The years leading up to and during menopause are a rite of passage.

The wise woman inside of us is calling to slow down,

To take stock,

To speak our truth,

To burn away all that no longer serves us ready for our next cycle of life.

The good news is with the support,

Community,

Connection and most of all sharing our stories and being truly seen and heard,

We will travel through this powerful,

Sometimes painful heroine's journey and out the other side.

Welcome to the Menopause Podcast,

Real and raw stories of midlife and mental health.

I'm your host,

Kylie Patchett,

Menopause self-care coach and storyteller,

And I am so glad you found us.

Let's get on with the show.

Hello everybody.

Welcome to another edition of the podcast.

And today I have a very,

Very cool person in the studio.

This is Laurie Seitz.

How are you,

Laurie?

I'm doing really well.

Thanks so much for having me.

I'm looking forward to this conversation because like I said to you before we started recording,

I'm like,

This is one of those fork in the road stories that coincides with our late forties when we're starting to go,

I don't know whether this life is really fitting me.

Would you like to introduce yourself to those of my listeners that do not know you as yet?

Absolutely.

Where to start?

So I was born,

No,

Not that far back.

I was born on a cold winter day.

I'll start with my entrepreneurial journey,

Which started in 2003 when I was making and in marketing a product called the gratitude cookie.

And my company was called Zen Rabbit Baking Company at the time.

So my company now is still called Zen Rabbit.

That's cool.

Yes.

And I,

So I have a background of a million years in marketing.

Yeah.

And so when I started creating this product,

The gratitude cookie,

Based on this family recipe,

It was,

The goal was to create something that was a way for businesses to say thank you to their clients and their referral sources.

Good.

And yeah.

And so I was talking about gratitude as a way to differentiate your business.

Yeah.

Then that kind of extended into talking about gratitude and overall and how it can affect your life.

And I ran that business for 11 years and couldn't quite scale it the way I would have liked to.

And so,

You know,

Actually,

Let's be honest,

I couldn't get it to be profitable.

So there wasn't,

I couldn't get it profitable.

So I couldn't scale it.

Yeah.

I mean,

The real thing is it was a struggle to make money with that business,

Even though it was such an amazing idea and people loved it.

Such a good idea.

Yeah.

And maybe now with the knowledge I have,

Who knows?

I hate it.

It wasn't meant to be then.

No.

Yeah.

It was a,

But I learned so much and I learned about networking and running a business and mark,

Even more about marketing and branding.

Yep.

And the time,

So I shut it down,

Ran it for 11 years,

Shut it down at the same time that my mom was diagnosed with an acute form of leukemia and passed away six weeks later.

And so here I am mourning the death of my business and my mom at the same time.

And like a lot of people,

That business was my identity.

So now who am I now that I'm not running this business?

What purpose do I have?

Who am I?

Do I have any worth?

This was my whole life.

And so,

Yeah.

So having to wrap my head around that,

And that's when I started asking that question of,

Do I want to live the next 20 years the same way I lived the last 20?

Yeah.

And yeah.

And decide,

And what would I do differently if I don't want to?

Yeah.

And so that took me a couple,

It took me a while to get back on,

Like get back on my feet,

But figure out what I was going to do.

I did some consulting back in marketing and then I started another business teaching people networking strategies.

Like,

Cause I had to learn with that business,

How to walk into a room full of people you don't know.

Yeah.

And especially as a,

As an introvert,

Although I don't like to use,

You know,

Introvert and extrovert people.

I know,

They're so,

Yes.

Introverts are not wallflowers.

No,

They're not.

No.

They're not antisocial.

It just may be a little bit more difficult for us to break into conversations or to get to know people.

We have less tolerance for those superficial conversations.

Yes.

At this level.

That lead nowhere.

And so teaching networking strategies,

But then pandemic came along and nobody was going to any events.

Goodness gracious.

And so,

You're like,

Sorry.

Yeah,

Exactly.

And so had to,

You know,

Transition again and came back into this concept of talking about the concepts of gratitude and adding in meditation and how do you stay calm and grounded,

Which is currently my mission of teaching the world to stay calm and grounded,

No matter what's going on around them.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Yep.

Yes.

That's a key,

Isn't it?

Because the gratitude and calmness is all very well when everything is going swimmingly and life is good.

And I keep on reminding myself in my own practice.

I keep on falling off the bandwagon with my meditation practice at the moment.

And I'm like,

This is the thing that keeps you the most regulated,

No matter what happens around you.

So if you want to feel more even tempered and like you've got this deep keel of,

You know,

Gentle sort of foundation as you slice through the waves of perimenopause,

I always think,

Then meditation daily is,

You know,

One of the things that helps me to do that.

But yeah,

It's one of those things that you're reminded how much you need it only when life is going a little bit perched and you're like,

Shit,

That's why I should have been doing that.

Yeah,

Exactly.

You realize how much it helps you when you are not doing it.

Yes,

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

Do you find this is just I'm going off topic already,

Not off topic,

But it's I'm picking my brain is pinging at me to say,

Do you find that when you're talking to people about gratitude and meditation,

There's a resistance there in terms of.

I feel like so much of our world sets our nervous systems at this crazy rate and a lot of us and you talk about high achievers,

Which I want to dive into as well.

A lot of us high achievers are not comfortable being calm,

At least at first.

Is that something you find or is that just me?

Absolutely.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Because what is familiar is the chaos.

Yeah.

Unfamiliar hell versus familiar heaven.

Oh,

No.

Familiar hell versus unfamiliar heaven.

I always get that wrong.

Yes.

Yes.

And so it is uncomfortable.

Yes.

Because people get comfortable living in that chaos,

Living in that drama.

Yep.

Even though they say they don't like it and they would rather have peace of mind when they get to or they're introduced to techniques that can help them achieve that.

Yes.

It feels alien.

Again,

Alien.

Yeah.

That's exactly it.

And so there is resistance to it.

And at the same time when you can push through that and get to a place where,

Like you were talking about,

Where you see the benefits.

Yeah.

Where you can feel what it feels like when you are coming from this centered,

Grounded place.

Yep.

And it takes a little while.

Like anything,

You need to get,

You know,

If you're playing piano,

You're not good the first day.

Yeah.

God,

No.

I know.

I'm pretty certain I'd be crap for my entire lifetime with that one.

But all of these things take time.

So what do you reckon?

Because when I am sensing the resistance in myself,

Because this is a very familiar cycle.

And the other thing that I know about myself is that I resisted gratitude.

Sorry,

Not gratitude so much.

Gratitude is quite set in stone in my life about the meditation end of things.

I resist it,

Particularly when I don't remember that the truest form of myself,

Like whatever you want to call that authentic self or higher self or whatever.

That's the part of me that wants to meditate.

And all the other,

Like I've trained in IFS,

So I talk a lot in parts language,

Like the parts of me that are comfortable with the chaos and are very scared of the quiet and actually feeling and all of those things.

So for me,

That's kind of cracked the nut lately.

I feel like I'm going to put the kibosh on myself.

I feel like touching wood again.

But yeah,

That's cracked.

If I sit down,

Because it's in my morning habits stack,

If I sit down to meditate and I've got a lot of resistance coming up,

I'm going to be like,

Oh,

I'm going to be like,

I'm finding it really helpful just to say,

Wow,

The part of me that resists this gorgeous calmness and the part of me that has taught herself from a very young age to stay busy,

To not feel and to achieve,

To try and prove worth and all of those things,

Is actually trying to run the show at the moment.

And I actually really,

Really would much rather listen to my higher self as a source of truth,

Rather than a little,

You know,

Tiny version of me from way back.

When you're working with high achievers,

Do you find that similarly?

Is there a pattern there for a lot of us?

Yes,

That's very common.

Let me ask you a question.

Have you ever given a name to those voices?

Yeah,

When I first did my IFS training,

I had names for every single part.

And now I think I got too complicated with them all.

But they could all have essentially the same name because it's the chaos.

Yeah,

It's not.

Just name,

Right.

And you name the chaos,

But you can talk to it when it's not you and say,

Hey,

What,

Yeah,

What are you doing here?

And you can also ask yourself,

Even if you weren't naming it,

What am I getting out of this?

What is the benefit?

Because there's always a benefit.

Always,

Always,

Always.

I get a lot of pushback from people.

Yeah,

I get a lot of pushback from people on this because I've had a lot of people say,

There's not a benefit.

I don't feel there's no,

I'm not getting anything out of this.

I don't like it.

It's not working for me.

Well,

Yeah,

You are getting a benefit because otherwise you wouldn't be there.

You would walk away from that so fast.

You just don't understand what it is.

And maybe we need to dig it out or you need to figure it out.

But there is,

You are getting some benefit.

100%,

100% because the system requires you to have a purpose behind what you're doing.

So,

Yeah.

And it's always seeking,

For me,

It's always seeking safety and control.

It always comes back to safety and control,

Safety and control,

Safety and control.

And unfortunately,

Like they,

They,

Safety sounds like a good thing,

But when,

I think when you don't have a good experience of feeling safe as a kid,

Safety feels really uncomfortable.

And so that,

That's my edge at the moment.

So it's really interesting when I was reading through this last night again,

I was like,

Oh yes,

We're going to have that conversation so that I can bring that right smack bang into my awareness.

And I agree with you when,

When I talk about secondary gain and like a coaching session,

People will be like,

There is no benefit.

And I'm like,

Okay,

Let's just ask a few questions.

And then they kind of get that,

Ah,

Look on their faces.

And I'm like,

Yep,

There it is.

But it's really difficult to dig it out yourself though.

That's one of the reasons why working with a coach on something like this is so important because it's too easy to fool yourself and just go,

No,

There's no benefit and walk away from that conversation and not,

And just shut it down and not deal with it.

Exactly.

And then you don't get to the truth.

And so you don't get the unraveling of whatever pattern you're in.

Exactly.

Anyway,

I've created a garden path,

Which we've gone down,

But I want to come back.

Sorry,

Sorry,

Laurie.

To you have this sentence you said in the summer of 2022.

So you got to,

You,

You got to,

Um,

The pandemic,

Everything shuts down,

The networking's not happening.

So that version of your business is kind of like,

Not,

Not,

Not viable at that time.

And then you say here in the summer of 2022,

I was doing all the things and not getting any results that I would have liked.

And I wasn't having fun.

So I stopped doing all the things and took a month long road trip,

Sabbatical with my 19 year old cat.

Which I've got,

I don't know,

Like in my head,

I've got such a clear picture of you in a car with a cat.

So tell us about that.

Why,

How did that decision happen?

Was it one of those,

You know,

Come to my knees kind of moments where it's just like,

F this,

Nothing's happening.

Like nothing's working.

I need to do something different.

Yes.

And no.

So,

And first of all,

I will send you a picture because I have a picture that I took as we were pulling out of the parking area of my apartment building,

But as we were getting started and it was almost like a last minute thing.

I was like,

You know,

I should take a picture and document this.

Yes.

I have this and people freaking love this picture.

I want it to be your cover.

Can we make that?

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah.

So it was about,

Um,

Uh,

Maybe may June around this same time last year that I started having conversations.

I had a conversation with a friend who was talking to me about,

Uh,

Brené Brown,

What had written a blog post about taking the summer off and like close.

She was closing her office.

And I think everyone was taking this summer sabbatical.

So bad.

Yeah.

And so Julie was talking about this and she had read this article and she's like,

I'm going to do the same thing.

I'm just going to shut down for the whole summer.

Yeah.

She was at a point where she was just going to burn her business down.

Yep.

And what came out of that,

I wasn't ready to burn my business down.

I just needed a break.

Yeah.

But at that time with the conversation with her,

I was like,

Yeah,

I can't do that.

That sounds wonderful,

But I can't do that.

Yes.

Then I had another conversation with one of my podcast guests,

Chris Shembra,

Who wrote a book called gratitude through hard times.

Yes.

And we were talking about somewhat of a breakdown that he had as someone who talks and teaches about gratitude all the time.

And he had lost his connection with gratitude and it had very dire consequences for him.

And he,

So he was talking about that and about losing this connection.

And I was like,

Hmm,

Maybe,

Maybe a sabbatical.

And then I had a third conversation.

Now everything comes in threes,

Right?

Yep.

With,

Um,

With somebody else who eventually became another podcast guest on my show.

But at the time,

That's not what we were talking about.

And she had,

She was celebrating having just sold her house and she was going to live in an RV and travel around.

Oh,

And my dream life.

She was still going to be working,

But it was going to be sort of a sabbatical of just,

Yeah,

I'm not going to be rooted anywhere.

I'm just going to go off.

And at that point I was like,

Oh my God,

Am I the only person that he's actually sticking around?

Right.

I,

You know,

And so then I started thinking,

All right,

How can I do this?

I think when you ask that question,

It's so much,

It's such a more,

Uh,

Productive question than so much.

Yeah.

How can I,

Or what would need to happen?

Cause a lot of times,

You know,

I'm always talking about the,

How is the domain of the universe that's not ours to figure out.

So what would need to happen for me to be able to do this?

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

And so,

Yeah,

So my 19 year old cat needed sub Q fluids twice a week because she had kidney disease.

So trying to figure out what to do with her,

If I was going to take off for any amount of time was the challenge.

Yeah.

And I have an animal communicator friend who said she would rather be with you than anywhere else.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

Once she said that,

That's what Panther wanted.

I was like,

All right,

Yeah.

So cute.

All right,

We're going,

We're doing this.

Yeah.

And so where I went on that trip was mostly determined by where I could take her.

Like I,

The first stop was that a friend's house,

But this was a friend who said,

Sure,

Bring her.

She's welcome to stay.

Yeah.

That kind of determined where we went.

And yeah,

It was a month on amazing.

She was such a good traveler.

I knew she was a good traveler,

But we had never been on the road for that long.

Yeah,

Of course.

I wouldn't even think to do that with the cat because my cats are crazy cat.

He's very young.

Well,

I had a second cat who passed away in April of 2022 and the,

She was crazy.

Like I wouldn't have been able to do it with her.

And because she was no longer here in her physical form,

That's why I was able to do this.

So like things happened.

And timing.

Yeah.

Interestingly enough too,

Though,

Panther after car,

Her name was karma after karma passed,

Panther would howl constantly howl.

And again,

My animal communicator said it's because she can still feel karma's energy,

But she doesn't see her.

Yeah.

Once we were on the road,

There was no more howling.

No,

We were not in the same physical space.

We got home started again.

Yeah.

But the whole time we were gone,

She was not,

She was just animals are so cool.

And they list fall.

She just loved.

I don't know that she'd loved being in the car,

But she did.

She did really well.

She loved being with you though.

That's she did.

She did.

Absolutely.

Oh,

And we had a fantastic time.

So yeah,

So this,

I will send it to you.

This whole thing about the sabbatical was I was working so hard and trying to make things happen.

The whole phrase of,

I can make this happen.

Like we can't make anything happen,

But we talk about it all the time.

Like we do,

Like we can,

But so letting go and allowing ease and flow and acceptance and fun.

And the,

The funny thing was that I,

The beginning of 2022,

My phrase for that for 2022 was ease and flow,

But I was not allowing it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so funny.

Hey,

We set those intentions and the universe structures it that way.

So that it did show up in August.

Yeah.

And you know,

We talk about this concept of allowing ease and flow and that's how things come to you when you're in this place.

Yeah.

When you're open.

Right.

We get that intellectually.

Yeah.

But once I did this and I went off and said,

All right,

I'm just going to go and have fun.

Yeah.

And I'm not doing all the things anymore.

I'm just,

I'm not having fun.

I'm just going to go focus on having fun.

That's it.

That's when I started to understand that concept of ease and flow on an inter,

Like to internalize that.

Mm.

So,

And the interesting thing that happened was that two of the biggest business opportunities to ever cross my plate came while I was on sabbatical not working.

Yeah.

Because I was allowing ease and flow.

Yeah.

And.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

And one of them didn't pan out and that's okay,

But it was interesting that it showed up.

And the other one is part of something I'm doing now and it's just amazing.

Like I could have never imagined or programmed this meant like,

This is how it's amazing how things show up that you don't even know exist.

Can't even conceive of.

Yeah.

Nope.

This is what I'm,

I've had an affirmation for a long,

Long time about being a magnet to magnificent opportunities.

And to me,

When I feel into,

When I am in the state of feeling magnetic,

It's just complete trust.

It's actually trust in,

It's both trust in the universe providing and also self-trust in that whatever is provided,

You will be able to respond to.

And so there's that,

You know,

It reminds me of the concept of like healthy wood energy in traditional Chinese medicine is like the,

The tree that can just respond to the wind.

Like there's no snapping,

There's no reactiveness.

It's just like,

It just literally goes with the flow.

And I think a lot of us say the words I want ease and flow,

But we're not willing or not brave enough or not comfortable enough,

Actually letting go and really living in that state.

And that is like,

Yeah,

Again,

The edge for me,

I left my corporate job back in October last year and I was like,

I don't know how,

But this is going to,

It's everything will be fine.

And it absolutely has been fine.

And I find same sort of thing that you're saying such strange things,

Not strange,

But so unexpected things unfolding that I was just having a conversation with someone yesterday,

Which is like,

I did not see that coming.

I did not see that coming or that coming or that coming.

And that's where I'm like,

There's no way that my little tiny brain with my own little tiny slice of perception of,

You know,

All of the quantum possibilities could possibly conceive of all the magic that's available to us.

So it's like,

Just put your brain to the side then and trust,

Use your belly,

Use your heart and just dip into that.

Right.

And going back to the whole concept of meditation,

I think that helps magnetize things because you are getting into this calm.

You're getting into that quantum field that Joe Dispenza talks about and planting seeds,

Even if it's like you were saying about being magnetic to opportunities.

And one of my things that I had focused on a lot was,

And I'm not a big fan of affirmations and we can talk about that,

But this phrase of cool opportunities just show up for me.

Yeah,

That's a good one.

And that's what happened.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

That's so cool.

I like that.

Cool opportunities just show up for me.

Do you know what I love most about that too,

Is that there is an energy of playfulness and not,

And here's what I've learned.

Like I've learned this so many times in my life.

I'm just relearning it with this version of my entrepreneurship.

Playfulness and taking care of my energy first is where it's at.

And what my conditioning had been was sit your ass down at that,

You know,

Gym and just desk and try your hardest,

Like bleed yourself dry.

And I've done that in almost every corporate job that I've ever had.

I've done it in over delivering in relationships,

In family,

Like everything.

And it's that,

Yeah,

Finally this year.

And I think this is a,

This is a,

Like,

I don't want to live my next 20 years,

Like this kind of,

You know,

The fork in the road moments where,

When I can sit in this,

I actually,

My most important thing to do is just take care of my energy.

That's it.

And so now,

You know,

I think people might think,

Oh my God,

She's talking about morning and afternoon,

Evening habit stacks again,

Because I'm so into atomic habits.

I've just read it for the,

I think fourth time,

But just that identity shifting of like,

I am a well woman.

And if I take care of myself,

Everything else takes care of itself.

And that to me is that it's the complete shift in identity.

And I think that that like,

What do you think brought,

What,

What do you,

When those three messages about taking sabbaticals hop in,

Do you believe that it's like the universe tapping you on the shoulder and just going,

Wait,

You're,

You've gone off track a little bit here.

There's another way.

And then the energy of playfulness,

Because you've gone and had fun.

And I also think the other thing about traveling to me,

Well,

The joy that I get out of traveling is that beginner's mind type of thing where everything's new and everything's cool because it's like,

You know,

I haven't seen that before.

I haven't,

Whatever.

And I don't know whether you were traveling where you hadn't before,

But that's the sort of energy that I feel like,

Again,

That's light energy,

Right?

It's like playful and,

And joyful and like,

Let's just go and give it a crack.

You know,

That type of like open to anything situation.

So now that you're back,

So you've been back for a little while,

What,

What's shifted for you in business?

You've stayed in the zone of believing cool opportunities to show up and cool opportunities have.

Can you tell us about like,

How's your day to day in business change?

Like what,

You know,

For people that are kind of listening,

Going,

This all sounds great,

But how the fricking hell do I actually shift from one to the other?

Yeah.

And that's a great question.

Yeah,

It is.

It is.

Honestly,

I was very reluctant or hesitant around coming back.

I mean,

Obviously I had to come back,

But I was somewhat afraid of,

Well,

How am I going to continue this energy?

Yes.

Because,

And I get like,

I'm not minimizing people who are addicts is that's a much bigger issue at the same time,

When you are,

When you come,

When you go to recovery,

Let's say,

And then you come back to that same environment that you were using in,

It's very difficult to stay clean.

Yeah.

From what I understand.

I don't have any personal experience.

So this is what I was feeling like,

Okay,

Now I'm coming back into the same environment.

How am I going to not get sucked back into doing 15 hours of work a day and nothing else?

Yes.

And so I didn't really have a great plan.

I just went,

All right,

Well,

I'm aware of this.

Yeah.

And it's still a struggle.

There are,

I'm doing better with it and in shutting down the computer and going off and reading or taking time to recharge.

But one of the conversations I had while I was on that sabbatical with a friend was about living a sabbatical life because he said to me.

I love this.

Yes.

I feel like I already live a sabbatical life.

He lives in South Florida.

He,

He said he works a few hours a day.

Yeah.

In,

Gets up early,

Works a few hours and then maybe two in the afternoon he's,

He's done.

He goes and hangs out with his wife and takes time to swim in the pool or,

You know,

Play,

Do whatever.

And then maybe in the evening he'll come back for an hour or two,

Maybe if he feels like it and do a little bit more work,

But that's it.

And then when he gets back into it the next morning,

He's fully recharged.

Yes.

This is the part that we as especially high achievers do not allow ourselves.

And we don't value like it's like rest is like a four letter word.

Right.

Yeah.

And,

And it's like a bad thing to do.

And what this last,

Yeah,

Seven months has shown me is the more I rest,

I'm actually,

Yeah,

The more I rest,

The more I receive on all levels.

Like when I feel well resourced and for me at the moment,

Particularly with like the fatigue end of things,

I definitely have less energy in my tank and I'm just like,

Right.

So when that runs out,

Here's the invitation.

And,

And like you just said,

Sometimes I still ignore it,

But sometimes,

And it is getting more,

I will actually let that be.

Yeah.

A trigger to actually go,

Okay.

I know that if I stop now,

Go and have time out,

Get into the sun at the moment,

We just talking about the winter sun,

Like,

You know,

Recharging the sun,

Have some time with my family,

Have some time with my pets,

Maybe go on a bike ride and then come back,

You know,

Well-rested.

It makes everything so much easier.

And I'm like,

Oh my God,

I've complicated things my entire life by pushing through.

Yeah.

It's counterintuitive to what we've been conditioned to believe since we were born.

Yes.

We've been programmed to believe that hard work is the way to success and you work and you work and you work and you take time to rest and recharge when the work is done,

But the work is never done.

So we don't allow ourselves time.

The truth is that,

Like you said,

Is necessary,

Critical and necessary to success.

It is not a reward for after you're done working.

It is the key to being successful.

And yet we still,

And so we can say this again on the conscious level.

Yes.

This requires rewiring your brain because you're what we're saying and agree with it and still not allow yourself to do it because one,

Like we talked about earlier,

You're not trusting.

Yeah.

You don't trust that this is really how things work.

Yeah.

Because why would you?

You've been taught for 40 or 50 or 60 years that that's not how it works.

And the entire planet,

Well,

Actually not the entire planet,

But the majority of capitalist westernized parts of the planet is that working hard has some reward at the end of it.

And then I'm like,

Then you hear about people that have a heart attack the day that they retire and you think,

Well,

That's a big lot of bullshit,

Isn't it?

Anyway,

Sorry to interrupt.

Did you say number one?

That's my trust.

Absolutely.

It's great.

The trust.

And there was something else,

But that'll come back to me.

Look at the majority of high performing business leaders.

Yes.

They all,

I got caught one time.

Somebody was like,

They don't all.

Okay.

The majority of them.

Yes.

Practice meditation.

Yes,

They do.

Why is that?

Yep.

Look at like Richard Branson and Ray Dalio and the guy who started linked,

Not Salesforce.

I'm so bad at all those names.

Like I don't live in that bubble,

So I don't pay any attention.

Okay.

But all of them and the,

And look at the highest performing athletes,

Carly Lloyd,

The soccer player and LeBron James and all of these.

So many.

They practice meditation for not because they have nothing else to do.

No.

And they do meditation and visualization.

And that's the other thing that I'm doing this thing at the moment that I'm really loving.

I like to throw anything at shifting out of conditioned behavior.

And at the moment I'm throwing,

I'm inside a mastermind.

Each month we write basically a vision for the month,

Which is not a new thing,

But I've taken to actually recording it.

And I always record it when my energy,

Like,

You know,

After I've gone to the gym,

Lifted heavy,

Have that like nice endorphin thing happening.

And I've listened to music and I'm like,

Yeah,

I can do it.

You know,

Like that's sort of like real positive upbeat vibe.

And then when I'm in that state,

I will record the vision.

And I put so much like,

You know,

This is the most amazing version of it.

And it's so interesting that I've been doing that for since February.

So February,

March,

April,

May.

So this is the fourth month.

And listen to it every,

Well,

Most days,

Sometimes twice a day,

But that listening to your own voice telling you the story.

And again,

It's limited because like we said before,

My little brain can't conceive of the quantum,

You know,

As much as I try and dip into it.

Like,

Obviously you're only just sort of like tipping yourself over the edge,

You know,

But it's still better than getting stuck in the patterns of the,

No,

I have to work really hard or no,

There's some sort of lack coming up or whatever.

I just turn on my own voice and it's like getting a pep talk from like the highest or not highest version of you,

But like this energized,

Open inflow,

Trusting.

And it's so cool because I find listening.

That's why I have a podcast,

Obviously,

Like listening to someone's voice is so much more connective than,

You know,

Reading something or whatever.

So you can hear the tone,

You can hear the joy,

You can hear the playfulness,

You can hear the sense of trust.

And I'm just loving that.

It feels like I'm able to kind of better sit above those moments where I do go into that.

Oh,

I've got to like strap myself to the desk because I've got so much to do.

When I say that,

That phrase in my head,

I've got so much to do.

I'm like,

Oh,

Fuck off.

I'm just like,

No,

Exactly.

I go back,

You know,

You're going down that slippery slide.

We have been taught that the outer work is what's important.

Of course,

Yes,

You need to learn how to do some things.

Yeah,

Of course.

Like in terms of running your business,

There's definitely action taking.

So thank you for bringing that up because this is not about sitting on your sofa and wishing the bags of money will fall from the sky.

Yeah,

Actually,

Let's perfect mate will knock on the door.

Let's pop that bubble because when you say meditation to some people,

They will still think you mean that you're sitting and you're just,

Well,

Actually probably more so manifestation.

But to me,

When you're meditating,

When you're aligning yourself to that,

Yeah,

Calm,

A more grounded version of yourself,

That is actually when manifestation,

Like we're always manifesting anyway,

But it's when I'm magnetic to those magnificent things and I don't have continual shit showing up at my front door.

Well,

You mentioned atomic habits,

Which I just finished reading that a few weeks ago for the first time.

And I love that he talks about in that book,

The difference between being in motion and taking action.

Oh,

When you are in motion,

You're in motion,

You're busy,

You're busy,

You're doing stuff,

You're doing stuff,

But you're not accomplishing anything.

You're not really being productive.

When you are taking action,

You're taking,

I don't know that he says it this way,

But you're taking inspired action.

And I think that inspired action comes,

You are inspired to take certain actions when you have been in touch with your inner voice.

100%.

Yeah.

And you are getting direction from your higher power or whatever it is you want to call it.

And the only way you can get that direction,

Because you mentioned earlier too,

About so much outside distraction.

There's plenty of sources,

Family,

Friends,

Colleagues,

Social media,

Traditional media.

Everybody wants to tell you how to live your life.

Yeah.

100%.

Yep.

Even though they're not doing such a great job on their own.

Exactly.

They got information.

They know what you should be doing.

Be careful what you're listening to people.

Exactly.

So when you can get to a space where you can hear your own inner voice and you're the only one who can hear it,

That's going to give you the inspired action.

And sometimes you're going to question like,

What?

Really?

No,

I can't do that.

Yes.

Listen anyway,

Because that's not going to steer you wrong.

And so that's what we,

When we're talking about plenty of people busy,

But they're not getting anywhere.

And that's,

Those are the high achievers that I tend to work with that go to sleep at night feeling like they haven't accomplished enough.

They just worked 15 or 16 or 17 hours a day.

And they're spinning.

They're exhausted,

But they didn't move the needle.

They don't feel like they actually accomplished anything.

And that's part of the reason why.

Yeah.

It's the spinning the wheels.

And actually,

As you're talking the busyness,

Like when I think about,

I talk a lot about trauma resurgence,

When we get to these perimenopausal stages,

Like shit that you haven't looked at healed faced dealt with,

Unfortunately tends to pop to the surface.

And I think for me,

Like I've always known this to a certain degree,

But I really,

Really feel it is the busyness.

The being in motion has just been a numbing strategy.

That's it.

And so this kind of the pattern of always having to be doing to feel okay internally,

Just a numbing.

And now,

You know,

I'm very grateful to be in a support circle where I can go down those paths a little bit more gently,

Gently as always,

But I'm noticing that it's like my tendency to need to be in motion.

So not productive,

Not,

And I also just listened to essentialism again,

Which I love goes with the atomic habits beautifully,

But it's like,

Are you actually taking action on the essentials that you actually want to shift the needle on?

Or are you just in motion,

Keeping yourself busy doing shit that doesn't need to be done that no one actually notices.

It's not going to make any difference to your bottom line or your satisfaction when your head hits a pillow.

And I think I feel like when you start to unravel the part of you that wants to stay in motion,

It's uncomfortable,

But there's also this kind of,

Well,

For me,

I can only speak from my experience.

I feel like for the first time in my life,

I'm actually meeting myself underneath all that.

I'm just like,

Oh my God,

There was actually nothing to be terrified about.

And yes,

There's strong emotions definitely to do with the trauma end of things,

But this wisdom that's underneath all the busyness.

And like you say,

I used to listen to,

What's her name?

Lacey Phillips,

To Be Magnetic is her company.

And I used to do her,

It's a thing called DI's.

I can't even remember what that is,

Stands,

But she talks about following the pings,

Which is basically,

Different language to what you're saying is like connect your inner voice.

And then when your inner voice says you should call that person,

Just do it.

Don't ask,

Don't confuse things.

Don't get the dirt on the windshield,

Just do that.

And when you said before,

Sometimes it's uncomfortable.

I had that happen yesterday.

I had the card open for something.

And the whole time I had the card open for this launch,

Something wasn't feeling right.

And I couldn't put my finger on it.

And I was like,

Is this just old patterning from me feeling like launching always has to feel a bit sticky and heavy,

Which of course it doesn't,

But that's the way that I used to do business to fulfill my need to be in motion and complicated things.

Launching was always horrible.

And then,

Yeah,

I got this ping.

It's like,

You need to actually completely pivot the way that you're doing this and have taken action on that.

A hundred percent feel so much more relief.

And also this bubbling of like excitement about the different way that I'm doing this.

But the old me would have gone,

That is ridiculous.

You cannot do that in the middle of a launch period.

People will think,

And I'm like,

People aren't even bloody paying any attention.

Trust me.

No one is paying attention as much as what you think.

And I'm excited because I was just saying to you before we started recording in the winter,

I always have this really big desire to hibernate.

And I've got a feeling like it's the 31st of May,

Winter is tomorrow.

I've got this feeling like I want to like pull the covers over and just bunker on down and fulfilling on what I was launching would have meant that I couldn't for two mornings a week.

Like I'd have to get out of bed early.

And I was like,

I want to do that.

Now I'm looking at my calendar and for the whole of winter,

There's no early morning or late evening,

Which I've been doing a lot of lately.

And I'm like,

Oh my God,

If I had ignored that,

I would have had this massive amount of like simmering kind of same pattern.

I've got to work hard to do something.

Like it's got to be hard because it's got to be uncomfortable too.

And I'm like,

No,

It fucking doesn't.

You take care of yourself and your needs,

Your business is way better for it.

And your clients will be way better held because your energy is clean and it's light and warm and welcoming.

Like that's what I want it to feel like,

Not the other way around.

And I'm like,

Oh my God,

That's such a good example.

And this is a concept I've talked about with other people,

With clients,

As well as I'm thinking of a particular guest that was on my podcast.

It can be easy.

Why do we think it needs to be,

Everything needs to be difficult.

It can be easy.

And going back to something you were talking,

When you were talking about your launch,

I just had a conversation with someone who said to the question to ask when you're doing something that is new or uncomfortable,

Is this a stretch for me or is it out of alignment with my values?

Alignment,

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

Say that again.

They both feel uncomfortable,

But it's asking yourself,

Is this a stretch for me or is it out of alignment?

Yeah.

It's the same.

I had a conversation with a coach that I work with yesterday and I was like,

My gut is telling me to do this.

And my energy feels really clean and clear about it.

Whereas I have gone down the path in past launches in my first iteration of business way back,

Where I've felt like,

Screw it,

It's not working the way I want it.

And just to pull the pin and like run away.

That is not how I was feeling.

And so to me,

That would be the difference between stretching and feeling uncomfortable and not being able to hold that discomfort would be me pulling the pin back in 2012 to 2017 when I was open the first time.

And this just felt like it wasn't in alignment.

And as soon as I changed what I was doing and cleared my calendar,

My entire system was just like the entire winter with no time to get out of bed at any particular time.

And usually I'm a five o'clock bright as a bunny,

High energy,

But I just really,

And I'm like,

Oh my God,

It was just out of alignment.

So if I had checked in and been meditating regularly before I set this launch up,

I would have got that knowing way earlier than in the middle of Card Open.

But that's another example.

I think to me,

When you're talking about like working with high achievers and exactly what you just said,

We get conditioned to say it's all an outside game and that's exactly the opposite of what it is.

We need to take care of our inside first and yes,

Then get into action,

Inspired action.

And yes,

Listen to the pings and yes,

Not just sit on the couch and wait for it to fall from the ceiling.

When you're working with the high achievers that feel like they're going to bed after 15 hours,

They're spinning their wheels,

But they're not getting anywhere.

And they're so fucking exhausted because that's what all of us end up doing,

Burning out.

How do you work together to shift?

Because I'm guessing that,

Well,

Maybe not,

Maybe by the time people come to you,

They're ready for something different because it's obviously not working.

So they're on the cusp of that shift.

But where do you start?

How do you heal a high achiever?

Yeah.

So my program is called F Being Fine.

And under that,

There's the framework that's called the Trilogy for Success.

And the trilogy is gratitude,

Connections,

And connections includes connection with everyone in your life,

Friends,

Family,

Community,

But most importantly,

Or and most importantly,

Yourself.

And then the third component is courage because you need courage to listen.

So now you're hearing that inner voice and we touched on this a little earlier.

You're hearing that inner voice and you're going,

But I can't quit my job.

I need to pay the bill.

I've been there for 20 years.

I can't leave my marriage.

I mean,

Which is another thing that we didn't mention,

But I know I want to come back to that.

I know we're right on time,

But I do want to come back to that because you hear these voices and you're like,

But I can't do that.

You need the courage.

Yeah.

So that's why that's the third component.

I love a trilogy.

I love a trilogy.

I love the number three is my favorite number.

I don't know why that needs to be said in a podcast,

But anyway,

I love that gratitude is a key component too,

Because I feel like another thing I do in my evening stack is notice the ways I'm supported because I know for me,

It's a big shift from being in trust of myself and trust of the universe.

And so I am paying attention to all of the ways that life is supporting me,

Turning out for me,

All the beautiful things.

Yesterday,

My list included the delicious,

Almost winter sun and the fact that I have a podcast day today,

Which I absolutely love and so many different things.

So it's kind of like milking what's in front of you for all of the ways that it's working out.

So when you do this work and people are paying attention to this trilogy,

Working on each of the aspects,

What happens to them?

Because I'm going to guess that as soon as they start doing the inner work,

Things get easier and they get more and more evidence that the more that you take care of your own energy and meditate and connect and practice gratitude,

Then the easier everything happens.

Tell us about,

Just say people are working with you and down the track,

They come back to you and they're like,

What's the,

Oh my God statement.

What's the magic that starts to happen?

A couple of things.

One is when you start living in gratitude and looking for it,

Like you were talking about when you're at the end of the day,

Notice and record what are the ways I'm being supported.

When you can find gratitude in every situation,

Even the ones that look really ugly at the beginning.

And this is,

Again,

I always like to say,

This is not about toxic positivity and not feeling your emotions and not ever becoming angry or sad or resentful or whatever.

You feel those emotions.

Those are part of being human.

Feel that.

And find the gratitude in the situation.

Maybe give yourself some time to feel through all those yucky emotions and then find the gratitude because what you're talking about too is when you're talking about being magnetic,

You will attract what you are looking for.

So if you are looking for things to be grateful for,

Or noticing what's supporting you,

You will attract more of those.

This is not like crazy talk.

There's science and research behind this and supportive in how energy works.

It's science-based.

So when you're looking for things to be grateful for,

You will find more of them.

At the same time,

When you're looking for things to complain about and criticize,

You'll attract more of those too.

So that's one thing that they notice is like,

Hey,

And when you are living in gratitude,

You just feel better.

Your energy is better.

So people come back and they're like,

Yeah,

I just feel better.

And it seems so great.

Like,

What is such a simple thing?

How do I feel better just because I'm living more in gratitude?

Yeah.

It's again,

It's an energy exchange.

And you're changing the way that you're filtering the universe.

Way back when I did my mindset training,

We literally have a mind that filters to look for what we expect to see.

So if we are filtering for complaints and shit and negativity and drama and all of that,

That's what we'll filter for and we'll notice more.

And one thing that's shifted for me with the gratitude thing is because I'm doing it every night,

When I come across something that I would usually just go,

Oh yeah,

Nice sky.

I'm like,

How lucky are we to live here?

And my kids are like,

You've turned into like some sort of rainbow hugger tree or something.

I don't care.

I feel a shit load better living like this.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So it does like,

Even in the moment,

It's not that you're just practicing gratitude at a particular time of the day.

You're then noticing more and you're like,

I always use the word marinating.

Like on the weekend,

I had a really icky stomach thing happen on Thursday and I just felt really ordinary and I'm supposed to have a friend come and she didn't come.

And I kind of was like,

Oh,

I could go down a slippery slide of like boohoo,

Nobody loves me type of bullshit.

And then I was like,

I'm going to take myself on a date weekend.

And I'm going to,

So I went to the farmer's markets.

I laid in the sun for an hour and a half just because it felt good.

Like all of those things.

And I'm just like,

This is a living kind of day of just,

I actually asked myself at the beginning of the day,

What would joy do?

And then I just kept on doing the next thing.

So I took myself on a bushwalk and then I went and had a coffee and then I journaled and then I read in the sun and I watched a whole series of tiny beautiful things by Cheryl Strayed,

Which I just love her books and yeah,

Her writing.

And by the end of the weekend,

I was like,

I am filled up to the brim.

And that's that it's the filtering for the,

What feels good,

What feels good,

What feels good.

And then expecting it's there's a,

I don't know,

Is there an edge of expecting that?

Well,

I definitely expect that things will work out.

That's,

You know,

That's just the story I have of the universe.

And I've got in my family,

There's a couple of very negative people.

And every time I go near them,

They're like the negative Nellie sort of like,

But what if this happens?

And I'm like,

Yeah,

That's not my story.

And that's literally all I say.

And then I'll just redirect the conversation.

Like that literally isn't my story.

That is not my story of life.

It's not my story of myself.

It's not my story of my power and my choice and all of those things.

So yeah,

I think,

And so what happens,

Cause I'm assuming these high achievers are like in,

You know,

Corporate jobs or like they're high achieving in some form.

What happens to what they're trying to do so badly with their 15 hour days?

Once they start actually taking care of all of the other things.

Yeah.

Well,

Things just get easier because you're like,

You were talking about,

You're living in a higher energetic vibration.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

Joy and gratitude and love are the highest energetic vibrations you can be in.

And so that's why it feels so good.

Yeah.

But when you're paying attention to those things and then when you get into talking about the meditation and you know,

I know where like we can go for hours here,

All the myths and misconceptions around meditation,

But when they start paying attention to what is it that brings them joy.

And this is another big thing that a lot of people,

When you talk about recharge,

Allowing yourself time to recharge.

Yes.

Well,

What do I do?

Yeah.

What do I do if I'm not working?

What do I do?

This was one of my issues too,

And still is to some degree.

Yeah.

Well,

If I'm not working then what should I be doing?

Like,

How do I know?

I don't even know what's fun anymore.

So like what,

I don't know anything other than work and in sitting in front of the TV may be relaxing,

But it is not recharging.

Recharging is what you're talking about is about filling yourself up with joy.

Yeah.

And what is it that brings you that joy?

And so you have to start,

That's like an exercise in and of itself.

And that it's not one time you sit down and create a list because it's going to take a little while to figure out what is it.

I keep on,

I'm being reminded.

So this is my sabbatical moment because I've had,

This is the third time that this has come into my mind.

I have wanted to learn how to sing for so many years and I live in a little country town and I went to try out for the local performing arts thing.

And I don't know whether I've told this story on the podcast,

But anyway,

The lady that was the head honcho actually wouldn't let me try out because she said it was unlikely that I would be a good fit.

And that was years ago.

I've been in this town for almost eight years.

No,

Eight years this year,

More than eight years.

And that has been my barrier to learning how to sing.

And I don't even,

I don't want to sing solo.

I just want to,

They do a performance every year and I just think it would be fun because I love to sing.

I sound like a scratch cat.

I don't care about that.

I'd obviously need to be in a chorus.

That's okay.

I'm at peace with that.

But that sense of I've always had that desire.

And then the other thing is just more creativity for the fun of it.

I get a lot of creativity satisfaction out of business because you're creating from words or I'm creating graphics or that type of thing.

But I mean,

Just for the fun of it.

And as you're saying,

What brings you joy?

Those are the two things that keep going.

Bing,

Bing,

Bing.

I'm like,

All right,

Kylie,

Do something about it for God's sake.

So thank you for the nudge.

I want to circle back.

I know we've talked about meditation and your business end of things,

But you said something before.

When you're more connected to yourself,

You can hear your inner voice and it may say things like,

Leave your marriage.

So you're married for 20 years.

You had one of those moments.

Can you talk us through?

Because I'm in a lot of menopause support groups because of the focus that I have in my coaching practice.

And I saw a post the other day and this woman said,

I am going to leave my marriage.

This guy is an asshole and I'm so irritable.

And then there was like 400 comments and people going me too,

Me too,

Me too,

Me too.

And I mean,

There's a lot that can be said about the fact that,

Yeah,

There's obviously multiple different things going on there,

But that internal ping for you.

How did you get to the stage where you trusted it?

Because I think a lot of people have the ping,

But they don't do anything about it necessarily.

They don't have the courage piece actually from your trilogy.

Right.

That's it.

So for 20,

We were married for 22 years together for 28.

So all of my adult life and a long piece of that,

Everything was fine.

It was fine.

We both knew that this was not serving either one of us,

But neither one of us wanted to leave because it was fine.

That's the thing.

Like nobody's beating each other.

It's not terrible.

It's okay.

It's fine.

Yeah.

And I think I just reached that point where like,

And that's why my program is F being fine because you reach that point.

You're like,

I can't,

I can't,

I want more than fine,

More than fine.

And that's your soul crying out for growth and expansion.

And that was the hardest,

Hardest freaking thing ever I've ever done in my life.

And I can't imagine that there is anything that I will ever do that will be harder than that.

Harder than,

Than dealing with my mom's passing because I did not,

Uh,

What's the word I'm looking for?

Um,

Initiate my mom's passing that happens.

That's nature.

It's so it's difficult and,

And it hurts.

But you didn't cause it.

I didn't cause it.

You didn't decide.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But here I was taking the initiative this marriage.

All right.

That must bring up a lot of good along the way.

Absolutely.

Doubt,

Guilt,

Some elements of shame.

I like,

I couldn't,

I couldn't make this work.

What my parents got divorced when I was 11 and both remarried and got divorced again.

And my dad's now been married to his wife for like more than 30 years.

So that works.

But I,

I,

When I got married,

I was not getting divorced.

Like I'm not doing what they did.

And yet I still couldn't still.

And it wasn't just on me.

We,

And he takes full response.

He takes responsibility to like,

He's a good person.

And we still are,

Uh,

We don't hang out together.

We're not friends,

But we're,

But you still can talk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh,

But it was not working for either one of us.

And so he would never have initiated.

I had to do it.

I think that's,

That's true of a lot of fine couples.

I feel like I was thinking about this yesterday.

There's like,

I see around me and this may just be where I am,

But I see a lot of,

Um,

You know,

Couples that have been married for a long time.

I've been married for a long time,

23 years.

Um,

And same thing,

Like met very young.

So,

You know,

You're a whole adult life.

So I just,

Even the concept of,

Yeah,

I can understand how that would be identity.

Cause you talked about identity with your mom and your business and then that identity piece too.

So you've really gone through this huge transformation.

Um,

I see in couples in our,

In our circle,

The guys are getting quite old and then the women are doing this like rebirthing thing.

And they're like,

I'm going to wear the cool colors.

I'm going to take up the fricking hobby.

I'm going to get a motorbike,

Which is definitely what I'm doing by the end of this year.

I keep saying that,

But I am going to in 2023.

Um,

And they're kind of,

I don't know,

Is it because maybe for some of us,

Cause we've had kids and we've done that bit.

It's like,

Now it's my time.

I don't know what it is,

But I feel like there's,

And I do see there's a lot of couples and you know,

They're fine.

The woman is the one that's talking about,

Maybe there's something that's even more juicy out there,

But the guy would never.

And I guess this is,

You know,

I'm talking in general terms in my kind of little sphere,

Little bubble,

But yeah,

It's interesting.

It is interesting.

So women have more support for changing who they are.

And they have more connection with each other to choose talk when they're not.

Right.

And men don't have that.

No,

Not as much.

Definitely not.

Um,

When you look back at the version of your beautiful self that made that decision,

Do you look back and go far out?

That took a lot of courage.

Like what do you,

What do you,

What's your frame for yourself when you look back on those times?

I see it now as being courageous at the time everyone was telling me it was courageous and I couldn't see it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Of course.

Cause all I saw was,

Oh my God,

This is so hard.

I can't believe I'm doing this.

This is like,

Am I doing the right thing?

Yes.

For like at least a couple of years I questioned whether I had done the right thing.

And now I can look at it and go,

Yeah,

That did take a lot of courage and I would not be where I am in life and business.

Yes.

I don't think I could have gotten here if I had stayed.

And I wanted to ask that question.

What,

When you look around at the reality of your life now,

Obviously a significant thing's changed.

You're not married anymore,

But the changes that you notice,

Do you have a sense that they couldn't have happened without that courage,

Leap of faith,

Trust thing?

And I think that that for me is what's always on the other side.

It's like,

Yes,

You have to go through the messy goo,

Shitty stage where you're in guilt and shame and embarrassment,

Like anything that comes up.

But on the other side,

You meet this version of yourself that wants more and actually gets more,

Like creates more,

Invites more,

Allows more to flow.

And so I just want to,

It's not up to me because we're strangers on the internet,

But I,

I really want to honor your courage in trusting the inner knowing,

Because I think we have to,

I know we have to honor that in each other because we need to normalize it.

Because there's way too many people living lives that don't fit them because they're fine.

Fine.

Right.

I love the word.

I love the way that you phrase that.

It's like,

Yeah,

Being fine.

A hundred percent.

Being fine.

And yeah.

And then right.

My podcast is called fine is a four letter word.

This is my other question.

Fine is a four letter word.

And you're on all platforms.

Yes.

Okay.

Perfect.

And you wanted to share also a resource,

Because we've been talking a lot about gratitude and meditation and you have got a beautiful page on your website that has a gratitude meditation on it.

So first of all,

Website please.

And we'll spell your last name because it's sites,

But you need to listen to the spelling people.

Okay.

So my last name is spelled S as in S A I T Z.

Yep.

But you don't need that to get to the website.

Oh,

Sorry.

Of course you don't.

Cause it's Zen Rabbit.

It's okay.

Sorry.

It's okay.

The website is zenrabbit.

Com.

Beautiful.

And what you were talking about is I would love to offer anybody who's listening,

Who would like to download a free six minute gratitude meditation that takes you through feeling gratitude.

Because we didn't get into,

It's not just about listing a bunch of things that you're grateful for.

It's about getting into that feeling of gratitude,

Which is a little bit more difficult sometimes.

But so the six minute gratitude meditation can be downloaded from the website and you can put a link in the show notes,

But it's zenrabbit.

Com slash gratitude dash meditation.

Yep.

We'll put it in the show notes.

Can you talk a little bit,

I know we're way over time,

But because you're talking about the feeling of gratitude,

I do want people to get a sense of that because like you say,

It's not just the listing,

It's the marinating is my word.

How do you describe it?

How do you describe it?

Oh,

I think it's that too.

That's a great way to describe it.

The marinating of it,

The feeling of it.

And what does gratitude,

I get asked this a lot too.

What does gratitude feel like?

Like,

What does it feel?

I don't know if I can feel gratitude.

Gratitude going back again,

Gratitude feels like joy.

Yeah.

And people feel it in different places,

But can you feel what joy feels like?

Most people know what joy feels like.

So if you can feel what joy feels like,

That's what gratitude feels like.

Yeah.

That's so,

It's so good.

I,

Um,

I used to have this thing.

It's like,

Oh,

A bubble of joy,

Like a bubble of joy just popped to the surface.

It's like I'm doing my thing.

And then I'm like,

Whoa.

And that,

That to me is how,

You know,

And I have moments.

Um,

That's why I love being on a motorbike because to me that's like the freedom,

But also there's a pure unadulterated joy.

And so if I had to kind of step into marinating and gratitude from like a low state,

That's where I would take myself.

I'd literally be like,

Close my eyes.

I'm on the back of the bike and yeah,

I can feel my,

My jacket,

My helmet and everything on me.

And yeah.

And then straight away I can get into that.

And I think,

Yeah.

Um,

Understanding you can shift your state like that is so important.

So I'm really glad that we have that.

I love that you brought that up because that I do that too.

Now,

When you are paying attention and you're capturing these moments of gratitude when you're in them,

You can then kind of save them and come back to them when you want to feel gratitude and get yourself into that gratitude feeling like there are occasions when I go back and I think about like sitting around a fire pit with friends,

Having drinks and laughing our asses off.

Like that is so joyful.

And,

And I catch myself when I'm in those moments now and it's almost like taking a picture.

Big shot.

Yes.

In your mind,

An energy snapshot,

This feels so good.

And then,

Then it,

It cements it in your mind so that you can come back to it whenever you'd like.

That's such a good,

That's such a good reminder because yes,

I do think that the gratitude practice has become this very like three things I'm grateful for bang,

Bang,

Bang.

And there's not actually a feeling involved at all.

Um,

Marinate in it.

And that's exactly what with the,

With the recording of the vision,

That's exactly what I'm doing because I've just recorded a,

You know,

An audio version of it,

But I'm,

I've literally put myself into a higher state,

You know,

Doing something that I love and then recorded it so that,

Yeah,

As soon as I start that.

Like,

It's,

I'm today,

I will listen to the May one for the last time,

But the start of the May one,

I keep on changing them,

But this is like,

Hey,

KKB,

This is your best life.

Being like,

I'm,

I don't know,

On a scale,

Someone doing the light,

The warmup thing,

But it makes me laugh because I literally did it way more playfully than what I've even done it.

You know,

I,

I was doing it very seriously and then I'm like loose,

Loose,

Loose ease flow,

Ease like,

Just do it because it feels good.

Don't do it for the end result.

Cause that is,

You know,

That's the,

The addiction of the high achievers go for the result and,

Um,

Yeah,

Process not product is another thing that,

Yes,

I have so enjoyed this chat.

Thank you so much for spending time with us.

I know we could go on for hours,

But we need to wrap up.

We will put though all of the connections in the show notes,

Um,

Please go and check out the gratitude meditation.

I'm going to go and sign up right now because I could do with a little bit more in my arsenal just to remind,

Um,

Thank you for your,

Yeah,

Your joy and your wisdom.

And also just showing us what courage,

You know,

Courage doesn't feel good all of the time.

It feels really sticky a lot of the time when you're in the trusting,

But also I think one thing that we didn't mention,

But it's a great place to end is the more that you practice self-trust and take action through courage,

The more that you trust yourself.

So it's not a given,

You don't just get self-trust on a platter.

You actually have to take action.

Um,

And you've given yourself,

You know,

A beautiful example of what it's like to yeah,

Really,

Really trust.

I cannot wait to see what happens next.

Yeah,

Me either.

Thank you so much for hosting me today.

And please send us the picture of,

Of your,

You and your beautiful Panther,

Because yes,

I will make that your,

Your show note,

Your cover would be lovely.

Okay.

Thank you so much,

Laurie.

Bye-bye.

Thank you so much for listening in to this episode.

I hope you enjoyed it and you took away some golden nuggets or a chiropractic adjustment of the soul around how to more gently and self-compassionately step through this sometimes tricky transition point.

If you loved this episode,

Please take the time to send it to a friend who's also in the messy magical middle,

Or even better go and rate the show with a five-star review or.

.

.