Mo's welcome to Funded by Source.
I am so grateful to have this conversation with you because you are someone who is part of my daily life through music,
Through ceremony,
And I'm just so fascinated and amazed by the incredible global impact that you have with your medicine through music.
And I'm excited to explore all things music,
The cow,
Creativity,
And anything else that comes up today.
All right,
Thanks for having me,
Xenia.
And I resonate totally with what you've shared and I'm just super honored to be here and explore some of this conversation with you and just blessed to be in the role that I have in sharing music for a living.
So one of the ways that I discovered you was by searching for cacao ceremony on YouTube and your video,
Cacao Dance,
Coming up,
One of them.
And the comments under that video are next level.
One of them that has been liked by hundreds of other users says,
This is where I wanna be when the world ends.
And I think it's just such a beautiful way to encapsulate the work that you do.
So just take us there.
Let's start with cacao dance.
What is that and how did it start?
And what is your relationship with cacao?
Yeah,
We can go pretty deep with that question.
So I'm living in Guatemala on the shores of Lake Atitlan and I've been here for almost 10 years now on and off.
And over time,
It's become my home base more and more.
And it was here that I had just started producing music and over the years started to experiment with different sorts of containers to explore music and dance and ceremony.
So the first time that I ever played an ecstatic dance,
Which for those of you who are unfamiliar with ecstatic dance,
It's a container without substances,
No shoes,
And one of the most important things is no talking on the dance floor.
So a container of silence and generally no phones,
Cameras,
Things like this.
So it really creates a more of a ceremonial container to explore music and movement.
And so I was able to start experimenting with new ways of holding ecstatic dance spaces here because it wasn't happening really.
So because there was no scene,
There was kind of a blank canvas to explore new ways of sharing the music,
New ways of setting the container.
And one of these experiments was to bring cacao into the experience,
Which was only natural because Guatemala is known to be one of the main sources of cacao in the world.
And there's cacao grown all over the country.
And there was already a little bit of that happening here in different forms.
So listeners of your podcast may be familiar with Keith,
The cacao shaman here in San Marcos.
And so he was one of the first people to start holding ceremony with cacao.
And I went to a kirtan here that had cacao as part of the opening.
And that was kind of a big epiphany for me because the combination of cacao and music was profound.
It took me super deep and this was kind of the inspiration to bring it into dance where the effects of cacao really lend themselves to this kind of experience because they open the heart,
They give energy,
They bring a sense of connection.
A lot of these things that people come to these community dance events for are amplified naturally with the medicine of cacao.
And so we just started sharing it and needless to say,
It was potent.
People received it very well.
And we just kind of continued sharing it in the beginning and setting intention,
Sitting in circles and just being very,
Very intentional about the space that we're creating and that there is the potential for deep healing,
Deep growth and transformational experience within these containers.
That sounds absolutely divine.
And with that view of the lake,
I can only imagine the amplification that happens being surrounded by nature and by so many other humans who are open to this medicine.
And I'm curious,
What was your first experience with cacao?
Those who have been listening to the podcast for a while know I'm a huge,
Huge fan.
Keith Wilson actually has been a guest on episode 127.
And cacao has been a huge plant ally and a guide for me in everything I do,
Including starting this podcast,
By giving me the courage to just drop into my heart and speak my truth and hold the space for others to share their stories.
And I would love to know what was your experience discovering cacao and what your experience with it is now.
And what does cacao ceremony mean to you?
Yeah,
There's a lot of richness to explore there,
For sure.
So yeah,
My first time ever consuming cacao in a ceremonial setting was on Keith's porch.
And for me,
I have the greatest respect for Keith and everything he's done for cacao for this community.
But my experience there was not anything profound.
It was not very meaningful for me.
I didn't really feel much.
Yeah,
It was kind of,
You know,
It wasn't anything I was looking forward to doing again.
But when I had this experience with the music,
With kirtan and singing and how I experienced the cacao moving through my body and opening my heart and connecting me really deeply to the vibrations and the music,
That was when I first really connected with it.
And something that I think is really beautiful about cacao is there is no established tradition around how to hold a ceremony with cacao.
Here in Guatemala,
It was largely lost with the tradition,
The Mayan indigenous people.
It's generally these days when cacao is incorporated into ceremony,
It's just a part of the traditional Mayan fire ceremonies.
So cacao doesn't necessarily have its own ceremony in the indigenous culture here.
And I think there's actually a really beautiful gift in that because it allows there to be a lot more space for interpretation.
And what I've seen now with the proliferation of cacao and more and more people connecting with it and bringing it into ceremony in their own unique ways is that it's become a catalyst for us to sit in ceremony in so many unique ways,
Depending on the inspiration of the individual.
And I think that's very empowering because it allows the imagination to come in and it inspires an authenticity to come through in the people who are holding the space and really becomes this limitless tool for exploring what is ceremony and how can we come together in a ceremonial way.
And I think the effects of cacao being gentle yet profound,
It's just a really beautiful balance to some of these other plant ceremonies and the plants that come with them that can be very strong and sometimes disorienting.
I think because of the grounded nature of cacao,
It provides a foundation for us to come together and explore a depth of connection,
Of experience,
Of all these different kinds of ceremonies and maintain a groundedness to our bodies.
And we're not flying off into these other worldly realms and then coming back wondering where we went.
We can remain very present with our base state of consciousness and just have this little bit of nudge to give us a new perspective.
And then as the cacao medicine slowly starts to wear off,
Because it was just a little nudge from our base state of consciousness,
It's so much easier to bridge that new perspective that we've had through that experience into our daily lives.
So well explained.
And you make such an important distinction here.
You're right.
In terms of history,
A lot of the Mayan tradition,
The way that it's being taught now,
It is mixed in with the Mayan fire ceremony.
And when it comes to cacao ceremony spreading around the world,
It is a blank slate.
So anyone wanting to create their own cacao ceremony,
I am on the same page with you.
I think this is this invitation to see what's authentic for you and how the medicine,
That plant medicine,
Wants to be expressed through each person that like a lighthouse gets lit up on the grid on the globe.
And you mentioned a couple of elements that you used to hold space for cacao ceremony.
You said intention,
You mentioned music.
Are there any other elements that you find to work really beautifully with cacao?
Yeah,
So it's been debated whether the way that we open these cacao dance events are ceremonies or whether it's just an opening intention setting.
And it comes down to the semantics of labels and definitions.
For me,
I think just coming together,
Sitting down,
Stopping our conversations,
Just being really present with the smell,
The warmth of the cacao in our hands,
Closing our eyes and connecting to the breath,
And just being really aware of why we're here,
Why we're here in this moment.
Why did we come to this event?
What are we looking for?
Is there something that we're calling in or is there something that we wanna let go of?
Is there healing that we're calling in for a family member,
For ourselves,
For our community?
So many things that we can give our attention and focus to.
And so much of our day,
We don't stop and take a moment to do that.
So I think going into these experiences that can be quite strong and have the potential to inspire so much movement and energy within ourselves and without,
That it's a big opportunity to just bring more awareness to our intentions.
And so the ceremony,
Quote,
Unquote,
Aspect of the cacao dance is quite simple and concise.
There's not much more that goes beyond just connecting with the senses,
Dropping into the breath and being really clear about this intention and taking some time to just sit there with the cacao and drink it slowly as we kind of clear the pathway for this intention to become manifest in our lives.
And in the last year,
I have brought in a friend of mine,
Walter,
Who is a local indigenous Mayan friend of mine,
Who has been studying a lot of the Mayan cosmovision and is holding fire ceremonies and is teaching some of the travelers here about the more traditional Mayan cosmovision.
He's come in to that opening ceremonial part to also offer a bit of wisdom around the Mayan calendar and really kind of whatever comes through his channel in that moment.
And that's felt really like a level up for our event,
For this offering and for the community and building these bridges.
And it's been incredible to see his interaction also with this event and just how much it's opened him and inspired him.
And I think it's a step in the direction of building these bridges between cultures that seemingly have large gaps between them to just bring more wholeness to the community and bring more awareness to some of these indigenous ideologies and perspectives that can shine light on all of our spiritual quests.
But beyond this simple intention setting and tuning in with the senses and what Walter brings,
For me,
The bulk of the ceremony is the dance itself.
And I think in a way,
When we were sitting together in this opening circle,
That it's really,
It's setting the tone for how the rest of the experience will go.
But the intention really is that the dance,
That the music,
That this whole experience that we're entering into is a ceremonial process.
That is so beautiful.
And I loved what you shared about Walter.
My cosmovision as a whole other topic we're not gonna get into.
That is really fascinating to look into for those interested in Mayan culture.
But before we speak about the music,
I also wanted to ask you about where you source your cacao and how it's made.
Because as cacao spreads,
There's so many different sources and I have my own favorites.
And there's so many different ways that it can be made.
I'm curious,
What is your go-to?
Yeah,
So this is an interesting topic here in this community because it has proliferated so much and there's people coming here from all over the world and then taking it home and sharing it.
And then other people want it.
So it's been really interesting to see it grow over the 10 years since I've been coming here.
When I first came here,
The only ceremonial cacao,
The only kind of brick cacao meant for these purposes that you could get was Keith's.
He was the only one sourcing it and processing it in this way.
That has changed over the last 10 years.
And now there has been a proliferation of different cacao outfits also located here in my community.
So just off the top of my head,
I can think of maybe five or six different operations happening.
And they all have their own methodologies and philosophies.
There's Dallaleo cacao,
For instance,
Who,
You know,
He has his own farm.
He sourced all of the genetics and is growing it in a sustainable reforestation project and does all of the processing.
So from seed to bar,
He's under control of that process.
And that has been,
I think,
A 10-year process for him because it does take several years before the trees actually start to give fruit.
I recently actually went on a farm tour with my friends at Cacao Source.
And this is a really cool offering that they've brought into the picture that,
You know,
They take people to the farms where this cacao is coming from.
And for them,
They're working really intimately with the farmers themselves.
They're promoting organic farming practices,
Which are not necessarily so common.
A lot of the cacao is not organic.
And yeah,
They're really helping to refine the way that the cacao is farmed,
But also the process of fermentation and really trying to get the most out of the whole supply chain while also really supporting the local farmers.
And this one has become my favorite over the last year.
The founder,
Jojo,
Is a good friend.
And yeah,
His heart's really in a beautiful space for what he's trying to do and his connection to the plant and his knowledge of all of the compounds and what's going on on a physiological,
Biochemical level is incredible.
So I know that you can buy that one online.
Sourcecacao.
Com,
I believe,
Is the website.
But yeah,
I mean,
That's just one of many.
There's some other really beautiful projects here as well that friends are running.
And something that I'm seeing is that generally,
These smaller outfits are all done from a very ethical,
High level of morality place where they're really trying to do it the best way they can and in support of the whole ecosystem,
The whole supply chain.
And I think that just comes with the territory because cacao is such a medicine of the heart and it inspires this kind of lifestyle.
I have not tried cacao source,
But I'm taking note.
I'm gonna be trying that for sure.
And I'm curious,
Does cacao source make the cacao for the ceremony?
Because how many people come to the cacao dance?
That's quite the batch to make.
Or are you the one who makes it?
Yeah,
Yeah.
So I mean,
The size of the events have definitely grown over time as well.
The first time we were doing this,
It was at a different venue called the Yoga Forest,
Which no longer holds these kinds of events.
But I mean,
I had events where there were 10 people.
And now,
Yeah,
Now it can be upwards of 200 at these events at Eagles Nest.
So the founder of Eagles Nest,
Greg and I,
We try and not be too favoritist with our selection of the cacaos.
We're pretty open to bringing different sources into the dance experience.
So we've worked with Keith's,
We've worked with Dada Leo.
And we'd like to give the different,
Yeah,
The different groups in town a chance to share and contribute to this experience.
I have another friend,
She's got a project called Nantali.
And she also holds a lot of cacao ceremonies.
So she's been a part of several of the events where she helps to prepare it and also says some words about the cacao and where it comes from as part of this opening process.
I'm never involved directly with the preparation because I've got my hands full just setting up the sound and getting the event ready.
But we've always got a rotating team of passionate cacao people who come in and prepare these big pots for 200 people.
I can see the pot in my mind.
My first,
Very first cacao ceremony in my life was in Bali.
And it was a very similar setting where there was an ecstatic dance type of event with huge pots of cacao.
And I remember feeling so openhearted and so connected to everyone and so expressed in my body and in my voice once we got to the singing Kirtan portion.
And that was it.
That's when the seed was planted.
And I feel like my life hasn't been the same since.
And where I would love to take this is how has cacao impacted your life and your music?
Yeah,
That's a beautiful point of reflection.
Cacao has been weaving into my life ever since I first had that experience with the Kirtan singing circle.
And I've incorporated it a lot into my process of music creation.
So as you've mentioned,
It's very inspiring and it really gets the creative juices moving.
So I don't drink it daily.
I really do try to treat it as kind of a special day when I have cacao.
So I'll have it maybe twice or three times in a week.
And generally just drink it when I know that I'm gonna have the opportunity to channel some of that energy into my music creative process.
So in a way,
I think that the energy of the plants is very present and is very interwoven with the vibration that's held in the music that's coming through me that I'm channeling just because the spirit of cacao is so present there in my own process.
I love that.
And you have such a peculiar style to your music co-weaving those powerful,
Powerful frequencies with existing medicine songs.
A lot of the times I actually discover those medicine songwriters,
Performers through your remixes.
And oftentimes those mixes get more exposure on Spotify and on YouTube than the original songs.
So it's similar to being this stored to people being discovered,
To their medicine being discovered.
It's like you have the opportunity with your gift to shine light on other lights.
How did that,
Tell us about your style and how does your process of finding those medicine songs that speak to you,
How does that work?
Yeah,
So my probably biggest breakout track is this edit I made of Danit,
Naturaleza.
I think a lot of people have found me and my music through that song.
And that song has an interesting history to it because I just found it.
I can't even remember exactly how,
But I found Danit's music some years ago and I was listening to it quite a lot.
And that song in particular just really impacted me deeply.
And I was really inspired to work with it.
And at that time,
No one knew who I was.
I was still just kind of getting started.
And within this whole kind of down tempo,
Shamanic,
Slow house,
Whatever you wanna call it,
This style of music that I'm a part of,
It's very common to make these edits.
And an edit differs from a remix in that it's not official.
There's no,
I haven't received all of the different parts like the guitar and the voice and the drums all separately so that I can work with them and yeah,
Create something new with a lot of freedom.
An edit on the other hand is unofficial and is usually done without any kind of permission or communication with the original artist.
And it's just done out of pure inspiration.
You can't legally sell it or make money off of it.
So that was kind of my process with this song is I just took it and I stripped some things out of it as well as I could with EQs.
And then I brought new elements into it and I posted it on SoundCloud.
And actually within a few days,
Danit reached out to me because someone had sent it to her and she said she liked it.
And this led to a whole conversation around actually making it official and getting it distributed to Spotify and some of these other monetized platforms.
And yeah,
Since that point,
It's just that that song has really gone far and wide and both of us have seen huge explosion in our audiences,
Not just through that song,
But I think that song was a big catalyst for both of us.
And I think that your observations around my style and how collaborative I am,
It's very fundamental to my whole approach around music.
And those familiar with my library will see that it's rare that I make a track that just has my name in it.
It's almost always a remix or a collaboration where the voice or the instrumentation of another musician is very focal,
Is very central to the song,
Is kind of my process ends up being that I build these more hypnotic beat driven mixes around the energy of these vocals and these instruments that I have the blessing to work with.
And there's not really any intellectual reason as to why I've gone this path.
I've just been really listening to my heart.
And if I hear a song that I'm really inspired by,
I do whatever I can to get in touch with the artist and see if they're open to doing a remix or a collaboration.
And now I'm at a point where I'm well known enough that I'm actually getting lots of requests now.
I have people reaching out to me almost every day asking me to collaborate with them.
And it's kind of reversed it from me going out and looking to being more receptive and just hearing what other people are doing.
And when I hear something that I'm just really attracted to,
Finding a way to weave with them,
Even if it might be some time down the road,
Because with all of this increased exposure,
I also have tons of projects and yeah,
I have to now filter a lot.
And there's so many things that I hear that are incredible and amazing pieces of music,
But I just,
I don't have enough time to do all of it.
And so it's kind of pushed me to refine the discernment and really just choose the things that I'm most attracted to in that moment.
And because there's so many opportunities now,
I have this whole spreadsheet of potential collaborations that whenever I do have time open up,
I can just go to this spreadsheet and there's already all of these possibilities that I can jump into.
And there,
The people are ecstatic to have the opportunity to work together.
So it's been a very organic process and all I've got to say is props to all of these incredible musicians who have been a part of my own process.
And yeah,
I mean,
It's great for me that now I have the ability also to shine light on these other people who are bringing such incredible vibrations into the world.
Was there something that you can pinpoint too within your own personal journey of growth or your internal alchemy that occurred that you think led you to this massive exposure that happened with the Dainit song edit?
I think it's so many variables.
I think in general,
The awakening of mankind is pushing people to connect more with this music that's created with the intention for healing.
And I think the term medicine music,
There's some controversy around that.
My brother,
For instance,
Is a jazz musician and he's really checked me around some of this new age terminology of whether it's conscious dance or sacred bass music,
Or there's all of these words that we're using to describe what we're doing in this kind of new paradigm movement.
And he was quick to point out that,
Well,
I'm making jazz music.
Do you think that's not intentional?
Do you think it's not sacred?
Do you think it can't be medicine?
And so I think the difference maybe is that this whole world of what we have come to call medicine music is it's really about the intention.
And so much of the music out there today is created with an intention to entertain or to make money or there's a lot of different intentions,
Right?
But the mainstream is kind of entertainment.
It's to have a good time,
To feel good.
And I think most of it doesn't get made with a deeper intention of maybe bringing people into a greater sense of connection or healing or some kind of transformation.
Not to say that pop music can't have that.
For sure,
There are very popular mainstream people who have that kind of awareness,
But I think it's a small percentage.
And so I think this whole movement of medicine music and of all of these related genres,
I think it's natural for this type of music to be reaching a wider and wider audience because we are experiencing a mass awakening.
More and more people are awakening to the fact that we are all one,
That we are all connected,
That the earth is our mother,
That she is our body,
And that we are all one family.
And I think as more and more of this healing happens in the collective field,
It's only natural that music which is created with the intention to amplify this sensation,
This experience of being at one with everything is going to become more popular.
So I think in my personal process,
It's just been my own process of awakening,
Of deepening that connection and of expressing that through my musical process.
And I think it's just organic that more and more people are resonating with that.
Absolutely legit question from your brother.
And I love everything you said,
And I would also like to believe that there are people who are making massive Hollywood movies and producing things that reach mass audiences that do have the intention of love and compassion.
And I would like to believe that there's people waking up in all sorts of walks of life,
Whether we put the label of ceremony or medicine song on it or not.
Yeah,
Absolutely.
I mean,
There's a big budget movie that just came to mind,
Arrival,
Dennis Philan's Wave.
Yes,
I just watched it,
Yes.
Okay,
Yeah,
That to me is like a ceremonial process.
When I watch that,
By the end,
I'm tripping.
And that's a Hollywood,
Big budget film.
There's something super deep being expressed there.
So totally agree.
And what's interesting is that for the longest time,
I wasn't drawn to watching it because a few people told me that it was just weird and you don't understand what happened at the end,
What was the point?
And for me,
It was a trip.
I was tripping for a week after thinking about all the different timelines that unfolded within that one movie and this call to choose our present and past and future all at once,
Choose the human life experience.
Yeah,
I'm brought right back there into that ceremony.
So let's see here.
Something that you briefly mentioned about when you make an edit,
You don't have the rights to monetize it.
And as a musician,
I would think that one of the biggest streams of income is being able to monetize it through those large platforms.
So have you been able to find balance with that part of it?
Yeah,
I've been blessed.
It's been a long journey.
So I've been producing for just over 10 years now.
And it took me seven or eight years until I was finally able to support myself fully with music.
And now it's,
The abundance,
It just,
It keeps increasing over time.
It's this upward trending line and I feel super supported by the music.
It helps a lot also that I live in Guatemala.
My cost of living here is very low and I live a simple life.
I don't have a car.
I don't have a lot of material possessions.
So my means are at a low level.
I don't have to make a lot of money to live a good lifestyle here.
But yeah,
The streaming world,
It has,
You know,
It has its positives and it has its negatives.
It's a fraction of a cent per stream that an artist gets from streaming.
But at the same time,
It's brought down the barriers to getting massive exposure.
And that's kind of been,
That's been very important to my process of becoming a professional,
You know,
Being fully supported by this in that I've never been represented by any kind of organization.
You know,
All I've done is I create in my bedroom and I put stuff up on the internet and the algorithms seem to recognize that people like it.
So they give it to more people and those people like it and they give it to more people.
And it just kind of gets out there because people are resonating with it.
And that I think is super empowering to the individual,
You know,
That we have this technology available to us that just is designed to help proliferate something special,
Something that's resonating with people.
So yeah,
It's kind of a double-edged sword.
You have to get millions of streams to make any kind of decent money,
But there are the tools there to get those millions of streams if you're creating something that makes a lot of impact in people's lives.
If someone is listening to your music and they're moved and inspired to support you,
What is the best way to do so for you and also for any other artist?
Yeah,
I mean,
There's a range.
I have a Patreon,
So that's a really good platform to give direct support to me.
And I also provide exclusive mixes and unreleased tracks there for the people who provide that support.
So that's been super helpful for me over the years to help liberate me and give me the resources to do this full-time.
Maybe an obvious one is just share it.
You know,
If you're really touched by something that an artist is doing,
Share it with your community,
You know,
Help spread the word,
Get it out there and help it proliferate in that really organic way.
And then I think,
You know,
Maybe a more alternative way would be to come to an event,
You know.
I'm actually going to be putting on a retreat in Costa Rica in a few weeks time.
For the first time,
I do a silent movement retreat here in Guatemala.
And it seems as though this kind of container is going to be more and more present for me.
There's more and more people coming into my life that I wanna weave with and collaborate with in that sort of space.
So that is an incredible way to show your support,
You know.
Come and be with us in these closed containers with small groups of people and go on a journey with us and,
You know,
Buy your past there.
So there's a variety of ways,
But it's,
I wouldn't necessarily assume that any of them are better than the other.
It's just kind of whatever is appropriate for the listener.
For people who are listening to this before the retreat,
Where can they find out more?
So it happens at the end of June,
June 30th to July 4th.
And yeah,
You can get more information at the website,
Which is illuminah.
Love.
And I'm assuming there will be cacao and some sort of dance.
There will be cacao,
There will be some dancing.
I'll be playing also for yoga.
We're gonna go to some hot springs and a waterfall.
And something that I'm really excited about is my friend Sam Garrett will also be present there.
And he's one of my favorite people to collaborate with.
We have a few tracks out already and yeah,
The live sets that comes through when we weave together in this very improvisational way is something very special to me.
Sam came up to me,
Suggested by the Divine YouTube algorithm and I absolutely love his vibe,
His voice,
Such beautiful co-creation here.
So yes,
If you're feeling called to everyone listening,
Do the risky thing and do the crazy thing and listen to your heart and nourish your body and your soul by being in community with beautiful humans in a beautiful land.
Speaking of which,
You were nomadic or you have been nomadic for a long time.
What made you settle in Guatemala out of all places?
So yeah,
I grew up in Colorado in Fort Collins and I always wanted to travel.
I studied Spanish in college and basically about 10 years ago,
After saving some money,
I took off and had a plan to go on a backpacking trip starting in Belize and ending in Colombia.
And by the time I got to Guatemala,
Which was only about three or four weeks into the trip,
I was already kind of losing motivation for moving around so much and just kind of doing all of these tours and going around to waterfalls.
And it's amazing,
But after a while,
It started to feel,
I don't know,
I just,
I kind of lost the inspiration and the sparkle around the trip.
And around that time,
I arrived in San Marcos and I decided to do this yoga and meditation,
Metaphysics course called the Moon Course here in San Marcos.
It's a course that goes from full moon to full moon.
And it was the first time I had ever meditated.
It was the first time I was exposed to a lot of these kind of mystical esoteric teachings and it was totally transformational for me.
It kind of reoriented me from this external travel,
This external journeying and seeking to looking inside and journeying inside.
And that's kind of the beginning of my decision to be here in this community.
It's been a process,
I've kind of come and gone.
And there was one year after that that I went to Asia.
I also went to Bali,
India and Thailand,
To Koh Phangan.
And I explored a lot of these different sort of vortex places around the world where a lot of this spiritual exploration is happening,
A lot of yoga retreats and just kind of alternative lifestyle,
Looking for answers,
Looking for peace,
Looking for the things that we're all looking for in some shape or form.
And after having traveled so much,
It just showed me that much more that Guatemala here on Lake Atitlan is where I wanna be.
It's really where I feel at home.
And now with COVID and the limitations around travel and touring,
It's kind of cemented that within me even more.
I just feel so good here.
And I really,
I'm so happy to be based here.
You're actually not the front on the podcast who has mentioned that course.
My friend and guest,
Florencia Friedman,
Co-founder of Kakao Lab,
She also,
I believe took that course.
It's so beautiful to hear,
We all have different places where our potential can be expressed the most.
And it sounds like for you,
At least right now,
It's Guatemala and I'm sure so many people who get to experience what you offer in person are blessed to have you there.
And given what you do,
You're like this mystery because people don't see you.
They don't typically hear your voice,
But you impact people so deeply on a daily basis across the globe.
So my question to you,
Moses,
Is there something that people don't know about you that you would like them to know?
Yeah,
I'm a Scorpio as well.
So I think the mystery is kind of ingrained in my DNA.
I've talked with some friends about this,
Actually in kind of comparing me to say,
Someone like Sam Garrett,
Who,
You know,
You listen to his music and you're hearing him.
He,
You know,
It's his voice,
It's his words.
And there's this direct connection with who he is and what he must be like to be around.
And it's so much more easy to imagine that.
Whereas I understand,
You know,
With me,
Also because it's so collaborative and there's always a mixture of energies and it is more of this behind the scenes manifestation that it's a more subtle way to connect with me,
With my soul and with what I'm bringing to the world.
And I think that there's something also really beautiful in that.
I like this idea of,
You know,
Just humility.
And for me,
This life that I have been given is exactly that,
It's a gift.
And all of the support that I've received through the music that has come through me is a blessing.
And so I guess for me,
This whole unfolding that's happening and more and more exposure and awareness around the music and connecting with more and more people and more and more opportunities,
I'm just doing my best to remain humble and to remind myself that I'm just a channel of something greater than myself.
And I'm really giving a lot of energy to maintaining that perspective and maintaining this connection to whatever it is that is gifting me with this inspiration.
And I do that primarily through these retreats that I do every year.
I take about two months and I rent a place,
I go disconnect from the outside world and I really just go inside and I open a dialogue with my inner guidance.
And I also create during these times.
So these retreats,
These solo retreat experiences are super fundamental to everything that is coming through in the music.
So in a way,
I see the musical journey that people go on when receiving the music as being a little taste of my own experience,
Especially these experiences that I have while going deep into retreat and strengthening this connection with the unity and allowing myself to be more and more of a channel for whatever wants to come through.
And I think it just,
Yeah,
I see music as a way to imprint experience in a way that can then be received.
So when I'm in the creative process,
Whether I'm in retreat or not,
Whatever emotions I'm experiencing,
Whatever states of consciousness are awakened in the process of creation,
That's all in a way being recorded into my computer when I'm working on this music,
Because it's all of these little micro decisions and movements that are happening from that state of consciousness.
And this is one of the beauties of the technology is that it's all in a way recorded and that whole experience,
This whole process that I go through is then transferable to other people who are willing to trust me and trust the music to drop deep into it and allow the music to wash over them and to journey on those sounds,
To journey on what's coming through in the music and in a way join with the music and touch whatever it is that I had the blessing of touching in that process.
I love that visual so much.
Just like we can see thoughts,
But we can feel them.
We can feel when someone walks into the room,
Kind of the state they're in.
And the fact that you give such importance to the state you're in when you're creating is I am sure one of the reasons why it has such a deep and meaningful impact on so many people.
One of my favorites,
I just wanna plug,
One of my favorite songs is Shanti Ishta,
Your edit.
It's absolutely divine.
So that one isn't technically an edit or a remix.
Although that song exists in an original acoustic form,
I met Suyana in Peru and there was a strong synchronicity around that.
I had heard one of her songs before and I wanted to record it with the girl that was singing it.
And I found out that it wasn't her song.
It was this person Suyana.
And soon after that,
I ended up in Peru and my friend messaged me and he's like,
Hey,
That song that you wanted to record with my friend,
The person who wrote it is in the same place that you are.
Do you want me to connect you with her?
And this again was in a much earlier stage of my career and so I was not well known.
I didn't have much of a following,
But yeah,
Suyana's music touched me so deep.
And so we recorded Raise Your Voice and Shanti Ishta.
And I think there was another one that never ended up actually being completed.
So we actually recorded that together just in her little house in Peru with a very low quality microphone,
With an untreated space,
Terrible recording conditions.
But the energy of that session was so special and just the energy of Suyana and what she's channeling,
What she's bringing through is,
It was so powerful for me that it's just,
It becomes this feedback loop,
Right?
Where,
Because well,
The whole time I'm working on that track,
Her voice is just inspiring me.
This kind of comes back to maybe one of the fundamental reasons of why I collaborate so much is it's just,
It's such a gift for me to go so deep into the vibration of these other musicians and what they're channeling and the experiences they've had in their process of creation.
And then to create from that as my foundation and just create this feedback,
It can go so deep for me in my own creative process.
So yeah,
That song actually is,
You could say like a version or a re-recording or I don't know,
Reproduction.
I don't know if there's a technical name for that,
But.
Wow,
Hearing the story of how present you are with creation itself just gives me goosebumps and in my heart,
I already knew the depth of what you're creating and this just gave my brain another dimension of understanding and really appreciating the medicine that you create in the world.
And before we wrap up,
Is there anything that I did not ask you about that you feel called to share?
No,
We went pretty deep today and I really appreciate your curiosity and the inquiries that you've made today,
Ksenia.
And I really appreciate you bringing me into this podcast and also just want to express my appreciation to you,
The listener,
Anyone who's here present with us through this journey of sharing and connecting,
Thank you for trusting us and giving us your time and attention.
And I really hope that you receive something meaningful today in this conversation.
And may this conversation remind you of your own medicine that wants to be expressed.
So.
And so it is.
So.
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It grows.
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