Demystifying The Art Of The Tarot With Emily Mcgill

Like meditation, there are many misconceptions surrounding the art of tarot. Old wives tales, superstitions, and stereotypes distract us from the fact that it’s a beautiful tool we can use on our path towards personal growth and self-care. In today’s episode, my guest, Emily McGill, demystifies this beautiful lost art and walks us through a reading of our own. Please note: This track may include some explicit language.

Transcript

Think meditation is hard? Do me a favor. Take a slow, Deep breath in. And now breathe out. Congratulations. You just meditated. Hi, I'm Crystal Joukowsky, And this is Breathe In, Breathe Out, A weekly mindfulness and meditation podcast for anyone ready to own their own shit and find a little peace while doing it. Welcome back to Breathe In, Breathe Out. I'm Crystal Joukowsky, Your host, And I am so thrilled that you're here. Today we are going to have a little chit chat with Emily McGill, And I'm really excited about this episode, And I really hope that you are too. Emily McGill is a spiritual seeker, A tarot reader, A storytelling strategist, And she is a deep believer in the power of community. After nearly a decade and a half of working in the entertainment industry in New York City as a Broadway and entertainment publicist and a communications consultant, Her path of self-exploration led to healing, Evolution, And reading tarot professionally. She was invited to read for the Virtual Burning Man in 2021 and Broadway's dry speakeasy, Club Curious. Emily has also been featured by the Tamron Hall Show, The New York Post, And Thrive Global. She writes playbills, Broadway horoscopes, And currently in development, I'm really excited about this, Is her own tarot deck, The Broadway Tarot. So welcome to our show. Thank you so much for having me, Crystal. I'm thrilled to be here. Yeah. So when's your tarot deck coming out? You still working on that? That's a great question. I am still working on it. I'm looking for a publisher. I had been in talks with one and that didn't work out. So I'm trying to find a publisher and see who might be interested in helping me bring the Broadway tarot to life. Oh, But I'm excited and I really want to be kept in the loop as you're doing that because I think that would be really cool. Yeah. So I want to know a little bit about what we're going to dive into what tarot is. I want to know first off, What brought you to tarot and what other unique fascinations did you encounter along the way to tarot? Yeah, I started my journey towards it. My, Or my awareness of my journey towards it in 2014. I had been working diligently on, You know, Making my Broadway career happen and that summer my grandmother passed away and she and I were very close. She was a very complicated woman. She had a lot of family trauma that had been passed along that had continued to pass along. But we were very close and I loved her very much. And there, You know, So it was a, There was a lot of stuff wrapped up in, In her transitioning and I went to therapy for the first time. That was the first time in my life that I was like, You know what, This is, This is the time. And I was really lucky. I didn't have to like date the way many people do when it comes to therapists, Like, You know, Try to find somebody that fits. On the first go I met, I mean, I still see this woman not as frequently as I used to. I have somebody else that I see regularly, But like I still do sessions with my therapist because she was that impactful. And she introduced me to tarot. So we would pull a card every now and again in a session if I didn't know where to go with something or I wasn't sure what was coming or like I would just like have a question, You know, And we sort of would talk through stuff and she'd say, Well, Why don't we pull a card? And so we would, And that's how it started. And then I would say probably like 2017 or 2018, I was looking for a practice for myself. Something to do every day. Just, It was just for me, Didn't have anything to do with anybody else. And she was like, Why do you pull a tarot card? And I said, Well, I don't have a deck. Like she said, So get an app for your phone because there's an app for everything. I found I got an app, You know, It was like 10 bucks, Which is pricey for an app, But like for a tarot deck is, You know, Not much at all. And I started pulling a card every day because I would just like tap the button on my phone, You know, To get rid of that little red dot. And before I knew it, I was doing a daily reading for myself. And so I was doing that pretty regularly and I started using that for friends, Doing readings for friends, Like on my phone. It was not very conducive. And shortly before the pandemic started, I was gifted my first deck, My first physical deck. And I was able then to start actually exploring doing readings for other people. And so I was doing that for a bit. And then of course, Everything went online. So I have shifted to doing online, But also, You know, Have now, Now that we're at the point we are in the pandemic, You know, That we have, We're, You know, Sort of learning to have to live with things. I've had many more opportunities to read in person. But digital is still, You know, Huge. So it's been a it's been a windy journey. Yeah, Yeah. So question for you that first time what had you ever encountered Tarot before your, Your counselor therapist, I don't know what you want to call her before she recommended that had you were there any preconceived notions that you had prior to that introduction to it? I don't really think much of it to tell you the truth, Because the deck that she had me use the first time is called the Osho Zen Tarot deck. And it's not as obviously a Tarot deck. It has some Oracle deck aspects to it. Each of the cards isn't just you know, The Queen of Wands, It's got a name. There are words printed on each one. And so it was it was almost had as much to do with the word and the imagery as it did like a quote unquote Tarot card. It felt a little more oracle-y in that sense. And so it was I don't know if that meant it was a softer instruction or what, But I didn't have any kind of qualms or really questions about it. I was curious about it. And I there were other people in that therapy community that had started reading Tarot, Used to my therapist, You know, Prior to me having my sort of introduction. And so I was very curious about what they were doing. And so I started you know, I was received readings from a few of the different people that I knew in that community. And was that also helped fuel my interest. But you know, I had, Of course, The preconceived notions that we get from pop culture. But it was really more curiosity than anything for me. That's cool. That's cool. First off, I just want to say shout out to not having to date to find a good fit. I lucked into the same thing. And I will for it like there's this heart, This spot in my heart for, For him and just how he helps to change my life and open things up. So congratulations on finding somebody that is so great. And yeah, And then I want you to tell people because you were talking. You mentioned, You know, The queen of whatnot. Tell us about tarot. What exactly is it? Tell us about the structure. Tell us about the deck. Demystify it for anybody that has not encountered it or has those preconceived notions of that's just a bunch of woo woo stuff and you probably shouldn't be doing it. Absolutely. My pleasure. So I like to say that tarot is a physical or a visual representation of information that you hold within yourself. It's something that you know in your gut, In your heart, In your core, But hasn't quite made it up to your head yet. And this is a way we can communicate with ourselves and translate that information for our brains. You know, It's like texting yourself a meme, Right? Like this is how I feel in this moment about this thing. So that's how I like to look at it. That it's this sort of visual way of tapping into your intuition or physically able to see how you feel about something without necessarily having the language or the words to describe it. And the cards never lie, You know? And that has nothing to do with me or you or anything, But it also has everything to do with that because we're just here shuffling and picking up some cards, Right? Like it's, There's not more to it than that, But at the same time, Each of these cards has a really specific meaning. The tarot is built out of sort of two parts. So we have the major arcana and the minor arcana. And our major arcana, They're like our magic cards. So when they show up, We pay special attention to them. There are 22 of them and they correspond to the human soul's evolutionary journey. Think of it like the hero's journey, Right? So it starts with the fool, Zero, The numberless number. And that's like that fresh and away we go, We're off to see the wizard, Right? Like we're leaping out onto this journey, Very trusting, Very naive energy. And then as we move through all of these different phases of life and of this hero's journey, We end up with the world, Which is that very completion energy. So it's whole, Healed, Holy, Really like, Right? That core of that word is wholeness. So there's this healing vibe of that. The minor arcana is more like a traditional deck of playing cards. So you've got four suits, Ace through 10, And then you have four court cards instead of three. So you'll have a king and a queen and a knight and a page. Sometimes you'll see it like prince and princess. Sometimes it'll be father, Mother, Son, And daughter because it's all archetypes, Right? So the court cards tend to correspond to the people in our lives or those qualities of that card within ourselves. And the number of cards or pip cards tend to be more about like situations or experiences. So I know that's like a lot of energy, Very fast. It's a lot of information to try and download, But it's all to say that there is something there, Right? There's scaffolding that this is built on. This isn't just like this random card means this random thing. Right. It's not a willy nilly kind of whatever. Hey, Let's just pick a, Yeah, There's, There's more structure to it behind it and supporting what's really actually going on. It's I like that you say it's like you're sending yourself a meme. Like how many times, How many times do we just scroll through whatever's on our phone and then all of a sudden we stop because something speaks to us. We don't really know why it does, But it does that right there in that moment is a little gif, A little message, A little, Hey, Here you go. And Tarot can be, Is very much like that. It's hey, Just let's just step sideways for a second and take a moment to look in and see and do. Yes. And connect with yourself. Yeah. Like, I think that that's another thing. There's always this misconception of, You know, It being satanic or the devil's work or whatever. Right. And I understand that people who are raised in a religious setting and with certain belief systems and faith practices have the ways they like to think. And by all means, Like, Please live your life. Don't hurt anyone. But I just want to invite you to understand that this has nothing to do with that. It's really only about a relationship with yourself and how you can communicate with yourself and how you can listen to yourself. It has more to do with spirituality, Which to me is about your own relationship with your highest power or God or the universe or Allah or whatever you want to call it. Right. It's about your relationship with this thing versus more of a religious way of thinking of the structure and the community and the systems that we build in faith practices, Oftentimes in religion. Yeah, I tell people that we need to tune into our own inner guide, Our own true self. And that is where we get the purest guidance and the purest love that could absolutely come towards us. And yet, We're not necessarily taught how to do that. We're not taught how to open up. And there's, There's so many different ways to describe it or to call it or, You know, Some people might just say, I'm meditating and that's how I tune into my higher self and other people it's tarot and other people they go to somebody who helps them tap in. But it's the buffet of life where we all find what works for me, What makes it so that I have the ability to get the knowledge that I need. I actually taught my son how to do tarot when he was in high school. He was very, He was a very intuitive and emotional kid. And he could feel the kids around him. And he struggled in trying to find that balance. And so I showed him how to use tarot and he would come home and he'd be really frustrated with something and he'd pull three cards for himself. And he'd be like, Oh, That's my answer. Great. And he could move on. And so it's, It's beautiful how people can use it for yourself and really find that added. Just, It's just such a gift. It really is. It's just another modality that's available to us. Another tool that we can use. Yeah, Another tool. So I hear that you're gonna do one with me. Yeah, Let's do a reading. I'm excited. Good. Good. Is this a reading for you? Is this a reading generally? Is this I think anyone who's listening to this, Like something is going to resonate and if it doesn't resonate, Leave it because it's not for you. Amen. I absolutely wholeheartedly agree with that statement. The first thing that came up for me was what do my listeners need to hear? That was like a question that automatically came up. So we can totally go very open and generic and just say, Hey, What needs to be out there right now as the gift today? I mean, I feel like we must in honor of the show, Do what you need to breathe in and what you need to breathe out. Mm hmm. That's great. That just kind of came to me. So I think that's what we'll do. That's our higher power talking. Saying, Hey. Yeah. Right. Here's something we need to breathe in and what do we need to breathe out? All right. So I'm going to shuffle these one more time and then I'm going to have you cut this deck. And now I'm a theater kid, So everything I do is very collaborative. So we'll, I will pull these cards, But we'll also talk about them. I'm going to ask you how things resonate and how they don't. And since you know your audience so well, Obviously you will also potentially be able to tell us what might resonate for them and like where we might be able to find more clarity or deeper meaning, Or, You know, Maybe go down a different angle or path that the card could be saying to us. Yeah. All right. You ready to cut them? Uh huh. Okay. Tell me when to stop. Stop. All right. So folks, This is what we are going to breathe in. Oh, Wow. We're breathing in the devil. Where is the devil card? And so I'm using a deck today that's called the wild unknown. It's by Kim Kranz. It's beautiful. It's all animal imagery. So on this card, We see on a dark background, A white goat with, You know, Big horns, Four hooves on fire. It's upside down. So you know, We're seeing that this is a reversal or an inversion. And this card is one of the cards in the major arcana, Which as I said, Is that human soul's evolutionary hero's journey, Right? And the devil is card number 15 in the deck. So of 22 cards, And we start with zero. So that's the 16th card that comes through, Right? It's like, We're getting close to the end there, You know what I mean? Like we're moving through this journey, This path. And the devil oftentimes symbolizes our shadows, The things about ourselves that we're not comfortable with, That we don't like about ourselves, The parts that we see as icky, The way that we respond in situations instead of, Or we react instead of responding, Right? The things that we don't want to embrace, But we have to because they're parts of us, Right? Like if we want to fully be a human, We have to embrace these parts of us that we don't necessarily like or love, Or rather we have to embrace and love these parts of ourselves we don't necessarily like. Yes. Right? And so this devil card is telling us like, It's time to breathe some of that in. We got to breathe in those parts that we maybe don't like about ourselves. I'm not kidding you. I just had this conversation with my mom yesterday. And last week I had this exact conversation with my sister-in-law of just accepting that it's there and acknowledging that it's there and the power in recognizing that I may not be fond of this and yet this is a part of me and knowing that it's a part of me means I can stop fighting against it. Right. Because when you don't resist it, You are able to then use it. Yeah. Yeah. It becomes this, Oh, I recognize that you're there and I can move on instead of this, Oh, You're there and now I'm scared into immobility because I cannot function with that in my face. It's a completely different. I love it. That's so perfect. And this is what we got to breathe in, Right? Like let's breathe in that ickiness, That stuff that we're not proud of. And we don't need to be proud of it, Right? Like we just need to say, It's okay that you're here. Just because, Just because here's the thing, Just because we accept that that is a part of us does not mean that we have decided that that is a part of us that we want to embody and tout out to the world. It's a, I get it. I see you and you are welcome to be a part of me, Which takes away some of its power. So instead of being this giant boogie man that is all encompassing, It's just, Yeah, I see you. It's the man behind the curtain, Right? It's I like to name them. So like I've named my inner child. I call her Emmy. You know, I'm like, Oh yeah. Emmy she's like, She, She came to play today because we just ordered chicken fingers and fries for dinner for the third day in a row. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. It's like, I can look and see when like, She's been making the nutritional choices for the last couple of days. I'm like, Right, Right, Right. That's a lot of burgers, You know, Whatever the thing is. Oh, There was a lot of ice cream this week. You know, Like Emmy was really in charge. You know, And like my inner critic, My inner bully, I named after my childhood bully. Oh yeah. I gave her a name to say, This isn't you talking to you right now. You know, This is a part of you that is there, But that's not, That's not all of you. And that's not the, As you said, The part we have to lead with the part we have to embody. Yeah, The part that I have personally for everybody moment of vulnerability for you, My personal one has actually been a lot of social anxiety. It has been very, It's, It's been this experience where I really had to step back and say, Am I really that insecure? Did I really do something or is this another part of me that just wants to say hello? And so I am literally welcoming this little insecure, Little, Little K, Um, Coming in and saying, I'm just anxious about absolutely everything. And I'm worried that I'm going to upset people. Yeah, That's my, That is what I'm breathing in. So for my read, For my listeners, Hey guys, Just take a moment. What is that part of you that is asking you to take it in? Not in a negative way. But what is that shadow part of you that is just dying for a little bit of acceptance and in finding that acceptance, Will you actually create the self care to heal and move forward? That was a good one. And that's only what we're breathing in. We haven't even taken a breath out yet. So let's see what it is that we are breathing out. The four of swords. So remember I said we have the four suits and of our four suits, We have wands, Which is fire, Our creativity, Our passion, The stuff that lights us up. We have cups. That's our water. That is our feelings, Our emotions, Our intuition, Our swords, Our air. That's the mind, That's mind mental. So that's anything, Knowledge, Wisdom, Communication, Technology, Intellect, Language, Right? Like anything in the mind. And then earth is our disks or pentacles or coins. And that's the physical, The material, The manifest. And you think about that ace through 10 as another cycle, Kind of like that hero's journey cycle that we have in the major arcana. The four is oftentimes about rest, Recalibration, Revisiting, Seeing, Sort of taking the time to integrate, Right? It's like we've had the one, Which is always like the really fresh out the gate, Like ready to go energy. We've had the two, Which is usually about like balance or our crossroads or like finding sort of where we go from here. The three tends to be a little about like structure or celebration. And the four tends to be about resting and sort of, Like I said, Integrating and seeing like what are the things that are working? What are the things that aren't? And we can see this as a beautiful little lamb here on a dark background, But there's a lot of lightness that comes from its third eye that then lights up all above it where we have four swords hanging above it. And you know, You look at this, You think, What is a lamb laying under four swords? That does not look safe. But there is a serenity and a peace to this animal. Like there's no sense of fear or any kind of lack of safety or, You know, It's just chilling. MARY LUCIA, PhD There's no unease, It's just like, I'm here in the moment. Yeah. Right. MARY LUCIA, PhD I'm going to take a breath. KAYLA Right. And it's like, You know, These daggers might be like sitting above you, Right? You might feel like these ideas or these things or the beliefs that we have about ourselves, Right? Any of these things that are sort of these could sort of drop at any moment and yet we can hold them. MARY LUCIA, PhD They are not you. They are not in you. They are not of you. It's this, You can be you separate of all of the other crazy stuff that's going on, All of the other things that are demanding your time and attention, No matter how big and scary and terrifying they may be in this moment. Just take the moment to be in it. To rest. Let your light, You mentioned the is its third eye and how it's illuminating everything. And it's like, The beauty about that is it illuminates the shadows. There are no more shadows to be afraid of to be running away from. There is a serenity that comes from seeing everything you have to deal with. And like getting these four swords into the light and seeing that like, Oh, Okay, Cool. So that's just great. That's what the handle is. That's where I need to grab it. MARY LUCIA, PhD Yeah, I kind of want to just cuddle up with the lamb. MARY LUCIA, PhD I know. It's like so sweet. It's like burning third eye there. So beautiful, You know, And also super chill. And how interesting that we just pulled two cards that were a goat and a lamb. And I know like, Sheeps and goats are different animals, Right? But like, There's this idea of this, Of the similarity, Right? And like the things that we maybe do not love about ourselves, Like being able to see the moments where they came from, Right? And that how like, The things that we don't love about ourselves did benefit us at one point in time. Right? And it's like illuminating the light on like the tools that don't work for us anymore, Too. Breathing those out, Like breathing out the tools that did once work for us, But no longer actually serve us. MARY LUCIA, PhD There you go. Yeah, They're fantastic cards. MARY LUCIA, PhD And it's interesting, Too, When we look at it. Thank you. I think that the color schemes are very similar. Also, There's that pop of red and gold and sort of orange in both the third eye and the flaming hooves of the devil. And it's like the the lightness of their both of their coats, The color, The light color of their coats and the dark backgrounds. MARY LUCIA, PhD So we're breathing in those things that we don't like that we would rather not have. We are breathing out those things that we now see do not serve us anymore. MARY LUCIA, PhD And I mean, That's, You know, That's a that's a daily practice, A daily struggle, Daily challenge, A daily quandary, However you want to call it, Right? Like it's a thing that doesn't stop. MARY LUCIA, PhD It is a choice every day. MARY LUCIA, PhD And some days we might choose to like, You know, Go the other direction. And that's okay, Too, Right? Like it's the choice. You have the choice you have and you have to be able to embrace the days that that person shows up to that you don't like because you went the other direction, You know, Like that's part of it. And then letting that stuff go. MARY LUCIA, PhD Letting it go and being a piece. Can we pull one more? MARY LUCIA, PhD Sure. What's this one for? Is there? Or is this just a? This is a moving forward. MARY LUCIA, PhD The Four of Pentacles. Another four. This one is also about balance and foundation and like how tenuous it can be. Right? Remember our pentacles, That's our physical, Our material, Our manifest. And we can see on this, It has, We have four, Four coins here. Each of them is bound to the others with some very fine threads. There are several of them. It looks like it's sort of a web being woven, But it's still in process and it's still in the early phases. And so there is some, It does feel tenuous. It does feel fragile. Like it needs to be continued to be built and the structures and the systems really need to be put in place. There's also this moment of patience in what you're building. Like give it a moment. Don't rush it. Don't push it. It is happening. It is being built. Give it time. If you break, If you push it, It might break. It might just collapse on itself. But if you just are patient and you take your time and you rest when you need to rest, You breathe in that scary part. You breathe out that stuff that doesn't help. And then just give it a moment. Just there is a balance to be had here. There's self-care. There's taking care of you and your own needs. And then there is the rest of the world that needs you here and present and able to just bring about change and transformation. So find balance for yourself so that you can give to you and give to the rest of the world and be just an amazing human being. Yeah. That's the reason they tell you to put your own oxygen mask on first, Right? Like if you can't breathe, How are you going to help anyone else? But also, It's hard to see, But this card is also upside down. This is an inversion, Believe it or not. And so we can see that there could be an opportunity maybe to allow yourself to go a little off balance if necessary, Right? Like to release that if that's necessary. If like balance, If you're a Libra and you tend to like cling to balance, That might not, You know, The going off balance might be what you need in that moment. So I think there's an invitation in the inversion of this to explore the perspective of that, Right? Like a lot of what you're saying is so important, Making sure that we are having taken care of ourselves first and having that balance of the interior and exterior. And this is saying like, You know, Maybe if you tend to do more of the interior stuff, Like you need to get rid of, You know, Move into more of the exterior balance stuff and vice versa. So, You know, There could be there could be a lot of different ways to sort of explore it. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I am sure that everyone listening has come up with some kind of way that these all apply to them. And I think that that is so beautiful, Because the tarot is for everyone. It's not. It's not only for the people who like woo woo stuff, This is something you can really absolutely tune in and find meaning and direction, You just have to give it that chance. So is there anything additional that you would like to just kind of share with our audience? I always like to remind people that this might not be the thing for you. But it could be an opportunity for you to explore different practice or modality or something else that might be of interest to you. You know, It might you might be like, Oh, My God, Plants are my thing or crystals or, You know, Hypnotherapy or sound bowls or like whatever it is, Right? Like there are so many different things, Different meditation styles, Guided meditations, Whatever it is, Right? Like, There are so many modalities available for you to explore. So this one might not be it for you. But it perhaps this opened the door for you to consider another that you might not have thought of before, You know, So I think that there's, There's an invitation that all of these different sort of tools that we use in the world in a in a more spiritually minded, Spiritually heart driven world that some of us are moving into and moving through. There's a lot available. There's so much out there. And it's just a buffet guys. Find what lifts your heart and just excites you. So can I ask you a few just fun little questions? Absolutely. Orange or green? Green. Yeah. Okay. City or country? Both. Pine trees or salty ocean air? Well, I just went to Maine where I got both of those together for the first time also, But I'm still gonna go with pine trees. Nice. Which season and why? Summer, Because I'm a summer baby and I hate being cold. I hear you. And then favorite kind of self care that you didn't expect to be a self care for you. I have two of them. One is something that I've started more during the pandemic, Which is my yoga practice. I've found that 20 minimum 20 minutes, Maybe 15, I haven't really tried to go that low, But like 25 minutes is the shortest I'll do practice daily. 25 or 35 minutes is like chef's kiss. It's so perfect. And just doing that time, It has changed. My body has completely changed over the last two years. I mean, I have more flexibility than I've ever had in my life. I feel like my system can feel it's like, It's like all the same, You know, It's the supplements, It's the yoga, It's the eating right. It's all of these things that like, You don't notice how it makes you feel when you do it. But then when you stop doing it or you don't do it or you skip a day, You're like, Why do I feel so, Or like off or wrong? Like, Why does, What's wrong with me? So I would say that like my yoga practice and then I've, I don't know, I like my daily shower is like a day for me. It's like a moment every day for me to just like release everything that had come prior to that, Whether it's from the day before or whatever. So I very much like use my daily shower as like an energy cleanse experience too. Yeah. You literally get to wash, Like watch it wash all down. It's gone. You don't have it anymore. You're not carrying it. It's all brand new. Everything when you step out of there is so fresh and you just get to start again. It's fantastic. I love that. Thank you. So I just need you guys all to hear and understand and know that all of my listeners can get a 25% discount on a 30 or 60 minute reading using the coupon code cups on Emily's website, Which is EmilyMcGillentertainment. Com backslash Tarot. So she's fantastic. She's fun. She's lighthearted. I highly encourage you go and just check her out. You can find her at the again, EmilyMcGillentertainment. Com or she's also on LinkedIn. So check her out and thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. This is such a delight to connect with you. And I always love, You know, Chatting with people that are open to exploring things. So that curiosity is always a delight. I love it. I love it. I really hope anybody out there that is even remotely intrigued by Tarot, Check in with Emily, Check in with someone, Find apps, Whatever it is, However you want to put your toes in that water, Dive in and check it out. Find something new. And we'll see you again here next week on Breathe In, Breathe Out. I hope this moment of self-care and healing brought you some hope and peace. I'm Crystal Dzachowski on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. And I hope you check us out and follow along for more content coming soon. I look forward to being with you again here on Breathe In, Breathe Out. Until next time, Take care.

Reviews

This was a great interview & reading. Thank you! 💫🙏🏻🌙