17. What My Coffee Habit Taught Me About Trusting My Guru

1:00:38

1:00:38

17. What My Coffee Habit Taught Me About Trusting My Guru

by Jessica Richmond

Type

talks

Activity

Meditation

Suitable for

Everyone

Book Club Reading 17 - Lessons Learned From My Guru The Hard Way In this insightful class, psychologist Dr. Joshi reads part of the chapter, Babaji Bashes My Addiction Affliction, by exploring the true meaning of trust and how it shapes our ability to accept guidance from those who seek to help us. She unpacks the concept of projection in therapy, revealing how our earliest attachments influence our resistance to change—even in spiritual growth. In the second half, Joshika shares her personal journey of overcoming caffeine addiction—a powerful story of transformation through Babaji’s wisdom. Key Topics: What does trust really mean in a therapeutic or spiritual context? How does projection affect our perception of those guiding us? Why do we struggle to follow a guru’s instructions, and how does this connect to our attachment styles from infancy?

Trust Addiction Spiritual Growth Therapy Attachment Inner Child Self Honesty Emotional Support Inner Child Healing Attachment Styles Perimenopause

Meet your Teacher

Jessica Richmond

Vrindavan, Uttar Pradesh, India

Meet your Teacher

Jessica Richmond

Vrindavan, Uttar Pradesh, India

Transcript

Babaji bashes my addiction affliction, Right? And we are kind of halfway through about, It looks like. Does anybody have anything that you thought about over the week? Or that you didn't get a chance to say last week. About this first part of what I read. It's hard to remember, So much happens in a week. I know, It's kind of like, What do we talk about again? Wait, Hold on, What? Oh, Okay. Sometimes the parts in the gold letters was. . . At least there's something on each page. Like, I felt a rush of feelings come over me. I felt humiliated, Angry, And ashamed. Didn't know what else to say, So we walked in silence. Reclaiming my love affair with chai was over from this day forward only made my raging caffeine withdrawal headache that much worse. His lack of response made me feel invalidated, Dismissed, And like my accomplishment was no big deal. Wow, He's not willing to negotiate on this point at all. He would not even budge a little bit. So this is when I remember the story that I was teaching, And I had the PowerPoint all planned out, And we were talking about this feeling of betrayal, Right? What that actually meant. So does anybody have anything? Or should I start reading again? Okay. No, Sorry. Is about how the mind rationalizes the. . . Shortcoming or whatever. In this case it's the addiction to caffeine. And I had a similar experience, Not with caffeine, But other things that I was doing wrongly. And how automatically the mind starts to support that. Programs basically, And you say, Oh yeah, It's not that bad in the end, It's what is there. Basically find a good reason not to give up. So this was kind of, It came up. When you said, Yeah, The mind works to rationalize, Rationalize our addictions. So, I have the same question. Works to rationalize anything that we're doing. So that's the part of the mind that does that. The part of the mind that does that? Because the body is the one who is controlling. And give the good reasons. But what kind of path of the mind do you do? I was just wondering if you know. Different class. Yeah. Bradley, Were you going to say something? Yeah, I had the same point as Kamala and then what is really touching in the story is that It's out of love that you stop. Finally. And yeah, I find that when you. . . Otherwise, I mean. . . It was so nice that Babaji just insisted on this and he kept also being with you even though you kept drinking the chai and he tried to told you for your own good. And so, Yeah, I mean, The power of love, Finally, When we want to stop something out of love. I mean, It was good for you, Of course. Also to show your love for him, Then you made it. With his help, Of course, I imagine. Then we can think of some other type of addiction. And yeah, That, I mean, I don't know, It seems to me that it's a really strong power. And we can reach anything? Even no matter how hard or how long it takes It's possible to make it when you feel you are loved and you have the support of a person who sees that it's not good for you, You're going to ruin your health or your spiritual. You have to get rid of this if you want to reach your goal. For me, I find that we say that it's hard to accept when someone spots the stain we have on the t-shirt. But finally, That can be the case. The biggest gifts someone can give us in a certain way and when it's done not in a harsh way, But in a loving way, Then I think then we can see and we can work on it. It's very hard, It goes back to trust. It's very hard to trust when it doesn't feel right for you. And he can see something that you're not seeing, You know? That was very hard to do for me. To just drop it and listen to what he was saying. I said, Okay. Anything else? Anybody online want to say something? So in the end of the class, I heard you say that 50% of success in therapy is to. . . Go to be able to see what did I do to cause my problem. From your observation is it really? Always like that or almost always like that? Is it always that? That I have also a significant share in my problems. Let's reverse the thing. Imagine if it wasn't like that. And can you give an example of how, I mean 50%, I'm being very generous by saying it's more like 90% of the success is from, Because why would you come to therapy if you could see your problem? And you could work on it. I mean, You have to see it very clearly. And once you realize, Oh, I did that thing. I'm creating. Even if you didn't create something in someone else, It's your mind that has the problem, Right? So if you realize it, Most of the time, And we realize it's us, And we have a problem. For example, Let's go really back to the basics. You're hungry. It's not Jain Sri's fault that I'm hungry. I'm hungry. My stomach's empty. So what am I going to do? Am I going to go to a therapist and talk about it? Or ask Nya and Sri, Let's meet and can you feed me? No, I'm going to, Unless I'm a baby, But otherwise, I mean, If I've done my inner child work, Even physically, I'll get my own food. So maybe the therapist, You'd go for a short time and the therapist would tell you the tools if you didn't know how to eat. But most of the work of the therapist is helping you see, This is your part. Which is called, In my world, Samskaras. These are your samskaras, And this is how your ankara is blocking you from seeing them. Does that make sense? Yes. It doesn't mean the other person is not a jerk, Or the situation sucks, Or someone you love died even. That's all true, But how you perceive, How you perceived meaning how you think about it and how you feel about it, That has to do with why people come to therapy. It's distorted thinking. Usually coming from how a five-year-old would see it, Or a three-year-old, Maybe an infant. Depending on when the original trauma happened, To make that subscribe. And this means that then the healing has occurred when dead. 5 year old, 3 year old samskara is no longer guiding my. . . Yes, Guiding. Compelling you to act in that way. So when your five-year-old or three-year-old is seen and validated, Because oftentimes when I'm in therapy and I finally get the person to the point of talking to their inner child, They start going here and going there, And I'm trying to chase after the wind. And then it's very uncomfortable because they're not used to being seen. And when I finally, If they stick with me and stay on it, Sometimes I just burst into tears finally, Because they're finally seen. It feels so good. And if they get used to that habit of like, I actually do care, I actually do want to hear what you have to say, And I want to hear how you feel. That's how the new samskara gets made and when that finally gets like a regular pattern for you. Then the inner child starts growing up. That's the healing, But through the growing up process, That's why when I'm in there nurturing with you, I'm giving you new thoughts. To see can you even accept that that's true about you, Something positive. That somebody actually cares, You know? And that's when that other wire gets tripped up where all that junk or garbage that mom did or didn't do to you gets then projected onto me. It's like an invisible wall. I think, Is it coming back? It's back, At least for now. Mosquito So for those of you online, I think the electricity went out. So we're just getting, I think, A backup or something. To make sure. Is it, It's, Can you hear me, Isabel, Now or no? Shaken hair? Okay. But it could happen again, You're saying? There's no backup for it? Yeah, Exactly. OK. All right, We'll hedge our bets. Okay, So where did I leave off? So basically that's some scars. So the inner child has to grow up through the therapist working with you and you learning how to get those skills to acknowledge inner child's feelings, To nurture those feelings, To make them feel seen and heard in the ways they haven't been as a kid. And then once you do it, Then you don't really need a therapist, Unless you get into some area where it's, You know, After a few years usually, Where it's a samskara that you have no idea, But you're really triggered by this situation or by this person, And it's uncharted waters. So then you can work with that same therapist or a different one and go in and find out, What's this one I didn't know? Or sometimes you think, I'm good, My samskara is good. It's gone. But then you get another situation and you're like, Oh shoot, It's that thing again. I thought I worked on my abandonment issues or whatever the thing was. So then that means you can go deeper into therapy or just get a refresher with your therapist for a while. That's why I always say the indicator is if you're feeling peaceful in all situations. Pretty well digested, You know? But that's what I'm saying, But if you come in and you don't realize. . . What you're doing to create your own suffering, Which sounds like you're blaming the victim. I'm not. When you see it that way, It means that you are seeing it from how a five-year-old is. The five-year-old, It is blaming a five-year-old. If you say that you created your own suffering to a 5-year-old or to a 10-year-old, That's not true. They didn't create their own suffering, It was done to them. But once we cross over to our adult life, 18 and older, You're not creating, I mean, Now we have to say whatever you're carrying with you, It's your responsibility. You've graduated, You've left home, A lot of people, Or you're working or you're in school as an adult, Then whatever was done to you, It's your job to heal that. So that's where it also gets confusing. It's like, Why are you blaming the victim? I'm like, Well, I'm not blaming you. And now I'm just saying, What is your option? And a lot of people say, The option is I want to talk to mom. I want to explain what she did. I want her to see it. And I want her to apologize. OK, Great. It's not going to change the samskara. OK, I want to explain it to my father. OK, You can do it. I mean, Usually it doesn't go so well because they're not in deep therapy trying to work on it. They don't have insight, Which is why you don't have insight. So instead of you trying to make them get insight, The best would be that you get the insight and take care of yourself. And then they won't bother you so much. Being around them and seeing them, You're just like, That's how they are, You know? Does that make sense? Okay. Isabel, Did you want to say something? I saw you were patiently waiting for a long time with your hand up. This is space. What were you saying? Two. See ya. The simplicity of it. If one is willing to look. Yeah. So I get a little overwhelmed at times. I just thank you. Yeah. And pleasure. I think it can be overwhelming, Especially when it hits something within you and you know actually the truth is that love is very simple. But when we were born, Just think of a cute little baby that you saw, You know? Babies are cute and they're simple. They're very simple. You know, They don't need much and they give a lot of love because they're just like there, You know. So that's actually what we need to do for ourselves. But love doesn't seem simple because of all the complications our parents made to us, Towards us, You know. So we got, Imagine like a, I don't know, A can of soda and it has all these dents in it. You know, So we have to like go in on the inside and push the dents out and try to become simple and smooth again because it's actually love is not complicated. It's just that we've got so hurt by our primary caregivers. You know? So what I'm saying, It seems very simple, But when you try to apply it, As you know, Isabel, And you guys know, In session, It's hard. It doesn't seem so simple when it's being done to you, Because we have our defenses up, Right? And we can't see things straight, And why the heck would you trust your therapist when your primary caregivers hurt you so badly? So all these other samskaras come up. It's very tricky, Tricky work, Even though the actual concepts are simple and clear. And like, Oh, I can do that. Just talk to man or child, You know? Just give her some love. But she doesn't trust love worth a damn. Megan, Did you want to say something? No? Okay, I just saw your camera come on. Anyone else? Anything else? Or should we read some more? Read? Oh, You have something coming? It seems that the trust is a very crucial point in the whole scenario. Um. . . The lack of trust is also kind of. Ingrained samskara. So, Basically, The work is going against the flow for our own practice. Growing. And even the projection and lack of trust, These two things. I'm Try to understand how. How much they can really prevent us to. . . To heal and to grow. Somehow try to find a way not to be blocked so much. Because, For example, Not my case, But. . . I didn't have trust in my mom. Because I never knew when she's going to. . . Freak out or to shout or to lose heart. Balance. So for me trusting is really mmm like a A different, Difficult field to. . . Difficult. Dangerous. Yeah, Dangerous. I would like to, But then something is pulling back. Like this, Or like that. So I observe it in myself. Yeah, So if you have some ideas or some advice to give, How to become more. . . Trust, Open. So trust is based on. . . What happened to us the first year of our life. That is when the attachment was made to mother or not made. And for most people we have what's called an insecure attachment style. So we probably don't have memories of that. We probably have memories of older, Thinking of ways mom wasn't there. But most likely, If she's like that when you were five or seven or 10, She was like that when you were born. So that first year of life, And you can tell by how you're reacting now. That's your attachment style. You can take surveys and see. You can watch videos and see. There's different types of insecure attachment styles. So if mom didn't do all that attunement that needed to happen and seeing your basic needs even, Sometimes physical needs, Sometimes emotional needs, You know, If she wasn't attuning to you, Even with eye contact, That's a really important one. Even the way you operate with people, Oftentimes we don't even look at people. That's because mom didn't look at us. We don't face people square on. We don't like to become intimate with people emotionally. It's scary for us. So all that is going back to the first year of life. And even in the womb, What if your mom didn't want you but she still had you? There's so many things. If she wasn't emotionally sattvic. So there's all these things that we get the message that we're not lovable and that we're not loved and that we're not. . . That main person who is required for our survival is not there for us. So this is a very difficult work to go back to that first year of life, You know. So what I usually say is whatever's triggering you now, You know, The main trigger would be that you're feeling rejected, You're feeling abandoned, You're feeling disconnected, You're feeling any of those types of feelings, Lonely, Some emptiness, That's all from, You know, It's not your fault. That's the main thing to know now, It's not your fault, It's from that first year of life. When you didn't get that attachment made. So first I would try to understand it intellectually. Again, Maybe you already have, But watch some videos on attachment style. What does a secure attachment look like? We have courses on it too. Hearing Babaji speak about it is so helpful, You know, Attachment styles. And then learn about it and then start thinking, Just look, Okay, Here's what it looks like to be securely attached. Do I have all those things? And then just start picking one and two, Or just one of them even, And start trying to nurture your inner child and making her feel. That she's seen. Because it's a little tricky when other people try to do it with you. For example, When I try to do it with my clients, Most people are not securely attached. So when I try to make one with them, That's the therapist's job. But it's very, Very scary for the inner child. And so all of her defenses come up, You know, Or his. And they don't trust that, You know. And so the therapist is trying to do what she can to heal you instead of saying, I'm going to try to make a secure attachment with you right now, You know. I mean, I'm not saying all the method to my madness, But I know the goal, You know, To try to get you healed and get you out of therapy, So the things I'm doing, But usually it trips up all those big samskaras. And then, You know, If you had a mother who was unstable, You're going to think I'm unstable. If you had a mother who's angry, You're going to think I'm angry. If you had a mother, And not just me, Any therapist who's doing that deep work with you, Going into samskara land, That's why I say it's very dangerous when the therapist goes in there with you, Because the main person who you're trusting to take you through, You're feeling like is doing what your mom did to you. And I'm not saying, There are some therapists who maybe are doing that. But I'm just saying in general, They're not. They're trained to go in there but it feels like you have a blindfold on and you don't know which end is up and why would you trust this person because you didn't trust him, Your mom broke your trust a long time ago. And then you'll start looking for anything that therapist is doing, Like you see how she, Yeah, I know, She's so untrustworthy because of this or that, Whatever you're working theory is about mom. You will put that onto the therapist, That's the projection, You know? So it's very tricky to get out of. So then basically, When we don't trust, We try to rationalize and also find a good reason why we should not trust. Back to rationalization, The first thing you brought up. Yes, When we don't trust, The ahamkara, And it uses buddhi. Buddhi is supposed to say, Ahamkara, Stop it, I see what you're doing. But instead, Buddhi defaults and goes, Oh, Okay, Ahamkara, That's because buddhi is not very strong. That's why last year, What did I first start off with? First, Let's see what our senses are, Then sattva says. I'm always trying to say, Sattva says, Your sense is do your best to get into sattva so you can, Booty can be strong and you can catch all this other circus going on. You know, With the hankara playing its tricks and manas getting all emotional and some scars flaring up and you don't even know. So the ahamkara likes to rationalize whatever it is, Including the fact that you're going to a therapist and paying them to help you, But you're seeing them as a bad person, As someone you can't trust. And meanwhile, At the same time, You're calling up mom. Hey mom, I love you, Miss you. That's what I'm saying, The wires get crossed. And the person who is the original abuser, That person you're still hanging out with. Or if mom's not even in your life, It's somebody. . . In your orbit of people who you think is so good and you're coming closer to that one. And then the one who's trying to help you, You jump all the garbage on them. This is why some scars are so tricky. Take that off. But that's why I'm talking about it, To kind of normalize it so you can start seeing, Okay, Nothing to feel bad about, But when therapy feels frustrating, These are some of the reasons why. It's very disorienting. I mean, I've never, Thank God, Been in a plane where it, You know where it goes upside down? Like, Have you heard of that? Sometimes when you can't tell, When it's too foggy, The pilot can't tell if it's in a way. I don't know if it's a personal plane, I don't think it's probably a big jetliner, But I've heard of these stories where planes crash because they aren't able to tell how to go up or down, Which way is up or which way is down. Because both my grandfathers were pilots, So I've heard lots of stories. About that. And yeah, So I don't know exactly what that's called when that happens, But the point is that's how I feel as a therapist trying to guide the client into some scar land. They don't know which end is up or down, And I'm trying to guide them, But they're usually kicking and screaming the whole way and trying to do anything, Take it out. And when I guide them too directly, Like, Hold on, Stay here, Let's go in, Let's see, Then they go the other way or they freak out or, You know, So it's a very delicate relationship. Art to take somebody into the samskara, To the very thing that they are so afraid of and so hurt by, You know, And then they have to trust somebody to go in and heal. It's a delicate, They don't know which end is up, And I'm like, Okay. So that's why usually I don't do it in session one. I try to build a relationship, Make sure that we can, You know, They start trusting, They start getting some success. It's helpful with any client, Any therapist you're working with to try to think about the good things that that therapist has done for you. If they don't have good will for you, They're not going to be a good therapist. They have to have a genuine, Unconditional, Positive regard for you. If they don't have that, How can they help you? You know, But even to just think like. . . Because like I've told some of my clients, Write the qualities of your mother on one side, And you're a therapist on the other, And try to see the difference. When you're not triggered, Try to see the difference, Because if you don't consciously do it, You're just going to project all the mom stuff and think that they're the same. You know, So actually look and try to see the difference between those two so then you can go more consciously into your therapy even and say, I trust this person. I could choose any person in the world. I chose this one. So I'm going to let them take my hand and bring me. And if you don't trust your therapist, Talk about it with your therapist. Or get a new therapist if you're not comfortable talking, Because you have to work through that part of it. You can't circumvent that, That you don't trust your therapist, Because you're just putting a block up for yourself. But it's a normal part of the therapy process, But you should talk about it and say, I don't trust you because of this, Or I feel uncomfortable because of this, And talk through that. That's how you can get through that healing. Anything else? And when you get out of it and some scars get cleared and you have clear eyesight, It's like, Oh my God. When you look back at the wreckage, You're just like. . . I came from that. Oh my god. Oh my god. It feels like such a relief actually when you're just standing on the top of the mountain looking down and going, Thank God I'm out of that, You know? It's such, You just feel so peaceful and so relieved. Then you can see where you were and how. Much you had to fight to get out of that. But it's possible and it will happen as long as you hang in there. At least that's been my experience as a therapist and as a client. Okay. Anything else or should we read? Okay. So 211. I'll just read the last gold at 210. It said, His lack of response made me feel invalidated, Dismissed, And like my accomplishment was no big deal. In a way, It also gave me the strength to make my next request because if he didn't care and he was so indifferent to the fact that I'd stopped drinking caffeine, I reasoned that maybe he would also be indifferent to me starting it back up again. However, Since I am about to start my PhD program, I think it is necessary to drink caffeine for the next few years to get through the grueling school demands. And then, After I complete my PhD, I will stop caffeine for good, I pleaded. Babaji said, No, You do not need caffeine to get your PhD. That is just another rationalization so you can keep drinking it. If you are tired, Then sleep. Listen to your body. What? I stammered, Shocked by Babaji's no-nonsense answer. It seemed like he hadn't even considered the impact of his words. I felt overwhelmed by the thought of all the late nights ahead of me, Working away without the caffeine fix to help me through. You do not need caffeine in your life. It only makes your mind unstable and keeps you hankering for something that you have no need of, Babaji retorted. Wow, He's not willing to negotiate on this point at all. He would not even budge a little bit. But I could not let it go that easily. Like a desperate beggar, I tried to bargain with Babaji. Can I at least have caffeine sometimes, Like when I have big term papers due and I have to stay up all night writing them? No. He flatly responded. Well, What about the all-night residencies that are required? How am I supposed to stay awake all night for four nights in a row after working all day, I pleaded. Babaji simply stated, Sleep during the day. Oh my god, I thought this is too much. I just can't do it. But what I said to Babaji was a less than enthusiastic, OK. And what actually happened was nothing short of a miracle. As I write this, It has been 10 months since that day when Babaji told me no more caffeine. I endured the sleepless nights of the online PhD residency course without caffeine, Not a drop. I spent countless nights staying awake until 2 a. M. Or later doing homework, Only to wake up early so I could make it to the morning kirtan at the ashram. I'm now able to live on very few hours of sleep, Caffeine-free. All I can say is that I was addicted to caffeine for over 20 years, And by Babaji's grace, That addiction has been broken. Despite my countless previous attempts to break it myself, Somehow, Someway, I always seem to come back to my warm, Creamy, Sweet chai. And to be honest, In full disclosure, There have been a few times over the course of my PhD program when I did actually break down and have a chai. But not because of a craving for it. As impossible as it may seem, After eight months of no chai, I had lost the craving altogether. What drove me to drink the chai on one of these occasions was a different reason. I actually had a migraine headache. You know that kind when your head is pounding and you feel so nauseous like you're going to vomit? It was that kind. Of course, Babaji and I had planned to work together that day of all days. And when I canceled our meeting because of my migraine, He told me to take rest. So I slept for a few hours, Hoping to sleep it off. But when I woke at 5 p. M. , It was still there, Raging away. Even my eyes hurt with the unabated pressure of the migraine. Knowing from past experience that caffeine helped to relieve my migraines, I thought maybe I should have a chai. But this time it was not for the pleasure of my taste buds, But for the relief of my pain. However, I still doubted myself somewhat for Babaji had helped me because actually aware of all the ways in which my mind rationalized my unhealthy behaviors. So when it came to having a chai, I wasn't so sure if it was a good idea because my mind had convinced me it was good for me so many times in the past when it really wasn't. The only thing I knew for certain was that I was in pain. A lot of pain and I had four hours of client consultation starting soon that I didn't want to cancel. So I did the only thing I could think of doing. I went to the kitchen and I ordered a large chai from Dada, The gracious ashram chef. Always aiming to please, He agreed to make my chai right away with a big smile on his face. Because I had promised Babaji I wouldn't drink chai anymore, Even in the extreme cases of pulling all-nighters for my PhD, And since I was doubtful of my mind's hidden desire to enjoy the chai, I checked with Babaji. Sitting in my room with the thermos full of hot, Steamy, Creamy chai, Taunting me with its undeniably seductive aroma wafting up into the air, Reminding me of all of our lovely times together, I stopped. I did not put the chai to my mouth. I didn't even take one sip. Instead I called Babaji. I told him that after. . . Practically sleeping the whole day. My migraine had not subsided. I explained how I had four client sessions scheduled starting in one hour and how I was sitting in the dark because the light on made me feel like I was going to vomit. I told him I had a chai in front of me, But I hadn't drank it yet because. . . I had made a vow to stop. About him to not drink caffeine. Babaji empathetically responded, Yes, Take the chai. In this case, You're drinking the chai as medicine for your migraine. No problem. That is different from drinking chai or coffee every single day. Being addicted to something means you're dependent on that and you lose your freedom. It's as if you are being used by the object to which you are addicted, Such as chai. When you need the chai every single day, Then it is your attachment. Or addiction. But when you're not addicted, You can use chai to your advantage because you're not controlled by it. Spirituality means to become free from your attachments, From bondage, Ignorance, And suffering. Babaji concluded by sharing, All suffering comes from attachments and addictions. We can use anything in the service of Krishna if we are not attached. We are not dry renunciates, But we are not the slaves of objects. I thanked Babaji and felt relieved that I could use the chai as medicine. As I slowly, In a meditative mood, Put the mug to my lips, I felt my old familiar friend chai's warm, Creamy sweetness engulf my mouth. I swallowed it down, But immediately felt disappointed. The chai didn't have the same appeal. It actually wasn't that tasty. Had my taste changed? Or maybe this was just a bad chai. I took another sip, But it wasn't as enjoyable as it used to be. After a few more sips, I put the mug down half finished. A first for me. What was going on here? Had I really lost my taste for chai? I couldn't bring myself to drink anymore. I let the chai get cold and then dumped it down the drain. Fortunately, My migraine subsided and I met with my clients over the next four hours with ease. The next day when I saw Babaji after the morning kirtan, He asked me how my migraine was. I shared with him that it had subsided by drinking the chai, But that I only drank half of it and I didn't enjoy it like I used to. Babaji smiled peacefully. His kind eyes radiated love as he shared in his usual way with as few words as possible, Good. Watching Babaji walk away, I felt grateful, Happy, Peaceful, And grounded. In that moment, It dawned on me that I had found a different kind of sweetness far superior to chai. My reflections are. I can't help but wonder what it would have been like for me if I had taken Babaji's words seriously the very first time he mentioned to me about not drinking caffeine. Sure, It was a very indirect way in which he relayed the message to me, Telling me the story of Prabhupada making his wife choose him or the tea. So I could have easily just done what I did, Rationalize it away that Babaji was just joking. But if I was truly wanting to change for the better, I would have understood that story he told was for me. And without any resistance, I would have stopped drinking caffeinated beverages right then and there. Perhaps if I had sincerely wanted to change, Then this would have been an easy move for me. Maybe then I could have seen that Babaji was like a good friend to me. Who was helping me to cut out what was holding me back. I wonder. . . What that would have been like for me to just accept his teachings instead of trying to resist and convince him of my way. I wonder how much more I could have learned from him in those precious moments together if I had not spent so much time fighting the process of accepting my Guru's guidance. My lesson learned is to take my Guru's indirect words and behaviors to heart. And make immediate changes without delay. So before I open it up, I want to say that since then, I've been drinking caffeine, Believe it or not. Because I don't want to be a hypocrite, I have to make a full disclosure. So there's another whole chapter I could write on this. That's what I alluded to last. Week is I have, When I was going through all this paramenopause and this menopause, I felt like I had like cotton in my brain basically. And it was very hard for me to focus and concentrate, Even if I slept. But then I was having hot flashes. I wasn't getting a good sleep and all that. And so I started going to see different doctors and ask. A few different doctors told me I should start drinking caffeine again. And I was like. . . Babaji, This Ayurvedic doctor is telling me to drink coffee. She's telling me to have a coffee in the morning and have a chai in the afternoon. I'm not bringing it up, But she's telling me it's good for the mind, It's good for concentration. What do you think? And he's like, OK, If the doctor says it, Try it. So I did. I tried it. And I'm like, I feel better. So that's where we're at right now. I drink caffeine, But I said, But then why were you being so hard on me? Whatever, Six years ago when you were like really hammering me, Now you're just like, Yeah, Do it. And he said, Because it was not about you drinking the caffeine or not. After all that, I'm like, What? That wasn't the issue. It was your attitude about it. And he goes, If you need it and if it helps your mind feel focused, Take it. And I'm like, What? So that whole battle was about really just trying to follow his instruction and not fight him and not try to convince him and all that. I didn't understand that until recently, Until I started having all these menopausal issues and I really couldn't even focus. I could not concentrate. So that's where we're at right now, And it's a very interesting. Experience to understand that it wasn't actually about the coffee. It wasn't about the caffeine. It was my attitude about it, More than the addiction, But my attitude about not listening to him, Trying to convince him, You know, And also just being honest with him. I'm like, When I take it, I'm clear and I can concentrate and that's what my brain needs. Maybe one day we'll find something else. And he's like, Don't worry about it. If that's what you need, Just do it. I mean I've been on this path for 10 years and so I think I was much. . . He was in the first few years of understanding how to have a relationship with the Guru, So I think he also was teaching me through that process about my Ahamkara, About all the stuff that I was doing in that chapter. And, Like I said, When that doctor said it, It was so simple. She was like, That's what you need. In Ayurveda, Everybody has their own different situation going on, And if that's what works for you. . . I mean, I'm not drinking 10 cups a day, You know? So, I just wanted to say it because I don't want to act like that's where the story ended, Especially for those of you who know me. You see, Sometimes I'm drinking a coffee and there's no, I don't feel bad about it. It's just what I need and that's also, I want to give everyone the message that what you need is not bad. Because if. . . If I wasn't being honest with Babaji, My guru, How can I have a real relationship with him? So I had to be just honest. I'm trying to follow your instruction, But it's not working for me. I'm seriously like, My brain feels like. . . I can't describe it, But when I've heard other women who are in menopause talk about it, I feel like I have cotton in my brain. They call it brain fog, Actually. I just feel like I have brain fog, And so that's what I'm using to feel clear. At this point. Things may change because I'm also seeing a doctor and getting help with hormones and stuff and maybe it'll change but That's the current situation, And that's Babaji's grace, Just saying, OK. You understood the last lesson. And now, Actually, In the class we take at night with him here, You know, He's always saying it's about the bav. It's not about the caffeine or it's not about the apple. It's about your brain. Mood around it. So to me, I'm like, Oh. The caffeine was like the apple, You know, And the mood towards the apple was actually the issue, My attitude about it. So that's the end of this very interesting chapter. One day, If I write another version, I will add that to it. And who knows where I'll be the next time. It's also very humbling to. . . In a way, If I'm being negative about myself, I can feel defeated by caffeine. Because I'm like, It's not that I want to do it, But that's, And also I've been doing it a long time, So my mind is used to that. And then at the worst time of my life, Which is when you lose all those hormones that are protective for the brain functioning, When you lose estrogen, Which goes to basically zero and progesterone, Your brain just goes wacky. So that's what's happened for me. Caffeine is the one thing that I could keep constant. So I am putting those other hormones back in. I'm trying. That's part of aging and being a woman. So I'm just. Trying my best to do what I need to function every day. So anybody would like to share? Yeah. Thank you for sharing. To see their honesty and also is very inspiring. Both things, Your honesty as a disciple and also as a teacher. Person who has clear what you need. And you need this for functioning properly in your service. And the nice counterpart is Babaji, Who is completely open to help us in any way possible, Without making us feel bad. No shame, No guilt. No shame, No guilt. This is very great, And I think it's very unique. Very unique. Then Babaji is like, You know. . . And I told him too, I said, Babaji, I have this book club coming up and this is not really how the chapter ended and the last thing I want to be is a hypocrite. This whole book is about me being honest about all this stuff and to show the relationship between the disciple and the guru and I don't want to leave it like that. In this glorified manner that I got over the caffeine. I did for a few years, Whatever, But I'm back to it now. And I said, But that part, He said, Fine. And I said, But I want to say the conversation we had, Is it okay that I say that you said it? Because then I don't want it to be the wrong message to all, It doesn't mean that's his message to all his disciples. That was what was going on for me, And he saw where my mind was at before versus now. So I said, Is it okay to say the part you told me to? He said, Yes. So he's so like. . . Attuned to each person and what their needs are. Thank you for sharing because this also shows how. . . Gracious. We are protected because he can understand fully our personal needs and very compassionate, Not judgmental and very supportive. And it's really very inspiring to see that. Thank you so much. You add this, It's something more than the glory to have conquered something with his help. It's even more. It's so interesting, You know, Because it was such a battle for so long and I was just dying and I was so hard, But actually my mind about it was more about the hankara than, You know, I need it and let me tell you why. And when I finally was just like, Listen, I'm basically crashed and burned, I feel like I have cotton in my brain, I can't think straight, The Ayurvedic doctor is recommending coffee and chai, And he's like, Yeah, Just No problem, Because it wasn't about that anyway. I'm like, What? I wish my hankar had been more humble about it during the PhD. So we could have had that conversation then, But I was still in a different mood. So it was a really interesting healing process for me, The whole thing, To come to that point, To have that conversation with him. Because before I was convincing him. And this time I wasn't convincing him, I was just explaining, Here's how I feel. Which is very different. And you know, It's much more of a. Flattened state than being like, No, I need it because of this, I need it because of that, You know. I was in the fighting mood, I was just like, I don't feel well when I don't have that. So then basically this rationalizing the fight of the, I need because of this, I need because of that. Yeah, Then it's fine, Instead of just being like, Here's, What would you suggest I do, You know? I'm at a healing center, This is what the doctor is saying, I'm not doing well. And then he said, OK. But I wasn't fighting it. I was also open if he said no, I would have not done it. If he said no, That's why when I ordered that chai from Dada, I just had it sitting there and I didn't have it, Even though I wanted to have it because I knew it was going to help with the migraine, But I didn't do it. Very wonderful, Thank you. Anyone else? Questions, Comments, Reflections? Go ahead, Come on. So then basically is the anchor which prevents us to accept even the word of guru and bring immediately the change because in your lesson learned you say that what if I could really immediately change without delay? So. . . Basically We are responsible, We ourselves are responsible. This is my situation, What do you think? Here's one suggestion this doctor's making, What do you think? It was very different, The whole energy around it, You know? Because I had already given it up. I wasn't fighting for something that I was attached to. I had already given it up. I was living my life without it, But I wasn't functioning very well. So I said, I can continue like this, But I'm not doing very well. And when I have it, It makes my mind clear and I can focus again. So it was a different thing. Because when somebody takes something away from you that you like, You will fight for that fight. So I was trying every angle, And I was also kind of ignoring what he said. Drinking and his face basically like, Cheers, You know, And so it was a very different attitude this time. I had given it up, I had understood, And I did feel you know. Triumphant in a way that I'd given it up like great, You know, But my mind is getting worse and worse and worse I mean those hormones are going way down and it doesn't really go back to hell. That's why I'm saying this paramenopause is no joke if anybody's in that. Usually it starts in the young 40s if you haven't had other things, Surgeries or anything, You know. Those hormones start going down and down and down. And it affects everybody differently. So that's also what was happening, I didn't know it. I know now I'm about to be 53, So all these years it was just going worse and worse and worse. That's also part of why I was getting the migraine. All that was happening, And I didn't know it, And I'm in the middle of a PhD, So it was very, Very hard to, At that time, Pull the caffeine away. At all times, You know? The change in your attitude. . . Attitude was the thing. Yeah, Has created the whole. . . Then he was like, Okay, Not a big deal, Not a big deal. I'm like, It's not a big deal. Yeah, It was the attitude. My fighting and trying to convince him versus my basically admitting that I'm weak. And that I need help. Yeah. I find it so interesting because what I understood is that while you were addicted, You also had the attitude of, I am weak and I need this for help, Right? And then after your addiction stopped, It sounds like you had the same thought of, I am weak, I cannot work without it. But in the first case, He said, No, No. You're strong, You can actually do it without it. You can give up the caffeine and then in the second case. . . Yeah, He saw that actually now you really need it, Right? Did I get that right? Yeah, That's an interesting observation. It's true, Because the arguments I was giving to him was basically that I need it. That's true. Kind of. I mean, My mood was different. I don't know how to say it. Maybe it looks the same, But my mood was more like. . . Rajasic. It was more just like, Listen to me and I'm right. Even though I was using similar arguments, But it was even more subtle than the words I was saying, That my attitude was the fighting attitude and I'm right and here's why. I was very And then the second time I came around, I was really humbled. I'm not saying I'm a humble person. I was flattened to the ground. I was like, I literally can't focus. Defeated, No? Defeated. Yeah. Yeah, It was like flattened like a pancake. I'm like, I don't know what else to do. Should I stop working and just sleep all day? I can't even concentrate to write an email. Like if you study, If you're not a woman in menopause and you haven't experienced this by someone you know, You can research menopause brain fog and see. It's crazy the stuff that happens with that. It really makes, Even writing a simple email, And I was trying to do a PhD, Write a book, See all my clients, Do other saving, I mean it was, It's very difficult when your brain chemistry is changing. And I had no, Not only an invalidation of it, I didn't even know it was happening. Literally what I thought up until that point is, Oh, Menopause means you stop your period. That's all I thought, Okay, It's just going to happen. No, I had zero education about it. I've literally only learned about it in the past three months. When I had a health issue related to that. And I've been educating myself and trying to take care of myself in a different way. So it's a heavy, That's why I'm also like trying to talk about it very openly because I'm still learning how to navigate life. As a 50-something year old woman going through menopause or having actually completed it, You know. Yeah, So I was defeated, Flattened, Kind of helpless, And almost a little bit hopeless. Like, Okay, My guru is saying I can't have caffeine, But I can't really function very well without it, And I still want to continue doing everything I've signed up for. Should I just stop doing all the services I've said I'm going to do? I don't know what the other option is, You know? And I tried different herbs and things. It wasn't working for me. And I'm still figuring it out with some doctors. Right now, This is the plan, And it could change as I. . . Learn more how to deal with everything that's gone on for me. Yes. I found this one message also very interesting. It came on one of the last pages that the spirituality is to become free from objects. Exactly, That we are not the slaves of objects and becoming free from attachment. Yes, Is there something more that you would like to say about that? What do you think it means? I just explained it, So I want to see if you understand or why do you think that that's something new that we're discussing? Okay. No, I don't think that's something new. So relate it to what I said so far about that, Do you think. How does it relate? So how it relates is that So what I learned from the story is that you showed how you first were not free, But you were attached to the and dependent on caffeine for you to work normally, To function normally. And that you learned that actually you don't need it and your body doesn't need it and you can do everything without it. But. . . Then as your body changed you realized that actually you yeah this is a medicine that that's working for you and therefore you started taking it again and then also i understood that that in the beginning, While you were addicted to it, Then you tried to convince Babaji that it is good for you and that you need it, And he tried to teach you that actually you can be free from it. Yeah, And that way helps you learn about the Ahamkara, That as a disciple we It is difficult to give up our attachments and have trust and follow the Guru. I think that's the relation I saw here. Good. It's about the. . . Mood. It's really about the mood. Spirituality is about your mood of surrender to your guru. And if you're trying to convince him of your way, That's why I'm saying it's not about the caffeine or the apple. It's about the mood, You know? It was actually the same scenario. It's not that I. . . When he was trying to tell me, Yeah, I don't need it, It wasn't even that I don't need it. It was the mood that I'm trying to convince him that I do need it and I'm not listening to him. Because I was in perimenopause then. I did need it, Actually. That's why it was so hard for me because my hormones were tanking and I was trying to have no caffeine, Which I did because he said to do it, But it was very hard for me. But I was trying to listen to what he said and follow, You know? And that whole scenario may not happen if I wasn't fighting him so adamantly. That was the problem, My attitude, The bhava, You know? That's the spiritual part. If you just surrender to the Guru and listen to what his exact instruction is, And in fact, If I was really surrendered to him, He wouldn't have had to say that to me. He would have just passively made that one joke and I would have been like, Okay, He means don't do it. Oops, He's right, But instead I have to drink it in his face, Explain to him, Fight with him, I mean a whole chapter, And that was like the summary point of what happened. So that was the wrong mood. Even though what the body needed that whole time was actually the caffeine. Which is very interesting. That's why it's kind of confusing. That's why when you tease out like. . . And it's so, To me, Very interesting timing of reading this when that's what he's teaching in class too. It's about the mood towards the object, Not the object itself. And so I think he saw when my mood switched. To being more humble and just defeated and flattened, He was like, Okay, She actually needs it. I'm not trying to convince. I'm not trying to fight with him. I'm not trying to. So it's subtle. And I really like this point that you said that he said is really not about the caffeine. I found it very powerful. And one thing that you said I found very remarkable is that now you're drinking it and you don't feel bad. And I really like that. Because once I started drinking it again, I felt so much better mentally. But then I told him, I said, But I feel bad I'm doing it because you don't want me to. And he's like, Forget about that. Of no guilt, That is what you need to function and your body is a machine. So for your body. Given whatever's happening in your body right now. That is what you need and just forget it. Just do it. And I'm like, Okay. And that also gave me relief, Because first I was doing it, And I'm like, I really shouldn't, I better stop it on this point. But I have multiple doctors I'm working with, And they're all saying the same thing. Different doctors, And they're suggesting it. So I'm like, All right, Just forget it. Certain people need that at a certain time in their life, And I'm one of those people. My mind feels like it's full of cotton, If not. It's also very humbling to live in a body and realize I'm not that. You know strong and also this idea like especially in the path of bhakti yoga that we have to be It was harsh to ourselves. And Babaji doesn't support that. He's like, Your body is a machine, And you have to take care of that. And if that's what you need, Just do it, And you should not be having any guilt. Just continue with your seva peacefully, And it's okay. Very interesting, You know? But if I had been too proud, I either would have done it and lied, Not done it and been angry at him about that or something. It would have come out in some weird way. You know, But when it came out clean like that, Then he was clean back and said, Okay. It wasn't a big discussion. When I say something come on. I find it very. . . Important to learn, Important lesson to learn, And also see the aspect of finally to accept what the Guru is saying. And humble yourself in a way that, OK, I need it, But I'm ready. If you say no, I will continue. If you say yes, I will take it. It depends. I depend on you. And then Babaji, Of course, He doesn't want to harm anybody. And he's so kind and open. Once he saw that you had surrendered, Basically this is the word. That was not a big deal. And it's very, Very sweet, Actually. Very nice. Once he said that my hankar was like. . . The mood had changed, You know, Then he said, Okay. I'm sorry if this is opening too much of a topic, But if you still have one minute, I would be very interested in hearing what is the difference between an attachment, An unnecessary attachment, An addiction, And something that I need. Are there some points you could give for introspection? Because now after reading the chapter, Now I want to see what are my addictions, What are the things I'm rationalizing. You could some prompt or idea how to see. Yeah, Addiction is something that you have, You know, You're getting a lot of pleasure out of. You're getting a high from, You're getting a lot of pleasure. It's like an added thing. You don't need it. You don't need, I mean, Like. . . You do eventually, If you're addicted to something, You do eventually need it. You can't even be addicted to a toxic relationship, You can obviously be addicted to the more obvious things like drugs and alcohol, Caffeine, Versus something that you need, You need it to function. And that's a very blurry line because it's like, Well, Wait a minute, But I need drugs to function, Or I need caffeine to function. So it's not so easy. I would try to introspect on just anything that you think that you're using too. Change your mood. If you're feeling depressed, If you're feeling angry, If you're feeling. . . Anxious and you're using something to avoid a feeling That's how I would look at addiction. That's how I define it, Actually. When I worked at an addiction treatment center, That's how I would. Also teach the people who I was working with. Because as usual, We get out the feelings wheel. Even at the addiction treatment center, When you were doing that drug, What were you trying to avoid? And of course, There's a lot of trauma they're trying to avoid. So the thing that they're taking was masking the feelings. Versus something you need. Like for me, It's not like I'm so fill-in-the-blank feeling that I need this caffeine. I mean, I feel like I can't focus. I have like cotton in my brain or something. I don't know how to describe it. Brain fog is what they call it. So I have to take that just like maybe a diabetic would need to take an insulin shot or something. I have to take it to focus, But I'm not avoiding some feeling and getting a high from it. Whereas actually before I was. When I was first using it, Before I hit the perimenopause, In my young jet-setting corporate days, I was like, Woo! It just made me feel like on top of the world, And it made my ahamkara feel really big, And like, I was awesome. What's the word? Just big. You know, And great and wonderful when I was in the corporate America. I would use it for that, You know. I would have on my little business outfit and get my Starbucks and be like, I'm so cool. It was a whole thing. Now it's not like that, You know. So I'm using it to just have a baseline mental state versus a enjoying and feeling great. I don't know if that helps. That's kind of, Okay. Good. Thank you guys very much. Haribo. See you next week.