Changeability & Newness | Mindful Q&A With Wendy Nash #07

This is the seventh installment of the ongoing live series with Wendy Nash inquiring into meditation practice on and off the cushion and the coming of spring in the Northern Hemisphere we talked: about changeability; chances to start anew; how meditation helps us see old stuff with a new understanding; and how to meditate more skillfully.
We also get various meditation questions and comments from participants like lucid dreaming and altered states

Transcript

And I'm back once again with Wendy Nash.

Wendy,

How's it going?

Yeah,

Good.

I'm calling from Gubbi Gubbi country in Queensland,

Where it is so hot still,

And it's almost April,

And every now and again,

It gets these really hot days.

So this is our seventh installment,

And today,

Since it's recently turned spring officially here in the Northern Hemisphere,

And I guess in the Southern Hemisphere,

It's now fall,

Right?

Well,

We're in Australia.

Actually,

It doesn't happen till the 1st of April,

I think.

So we do it by the calendar month,

And it doesn't really mean that much here because the Australian seasons aren't the same as European or North American seasons.

I think the Aboriginal people had something like seven or eight seasons.

So it sort of doesn't make sense yet.

Yeah,

It's different in the different parts of the world,

But what we wanted to touch on here today is this kind of just the notion of spring,

I guess,

This notion of change,

You know,

Just seasonal change too.

I mean,

Some parts of the world,

It's more noticeable than others.

Near the equator,

Right,

They don't really have that many different noticeable changes.

It's just like a rainy season and a non-rainy season,

From what I understand,

With a friend who's from Ecuador,

Yeah.

I think they call it the wet and the dry.

That's what we call it.

You've got the wet and the dry,

Yeah.

So even that is somewhat changed,

Right?

You know,

You hear the old suttas in Buddhism,

And they're during the rains,

The rains retreat,

Where it just didn't make sense to go out and do much because of that.

And so they would hole up and do meditation for that time.

But here in the Northern Hemisphere,

You know,

There's this notion of things coming back to life again.

After a long winter,

Life renews itself.

And everything's constantly changing too.

It just seems like when there's less seasonal change,

Then we have to look externally a little bit closer how things change.

But it's even more noticeable here when things are coming back to life after being dead for a while.

So I was on a meditation retreat recently for a week at home.

So if you,

Sammy,

Or our other dear listener,

Another of our dear listeners,

Would like to ask about meditation retreats,

Whether at home or what's it like,

Or should I do it,

Or yeah,

Some pitfalls of being on retreat,

Or pitfalls of being,

What is it like being on retreat at home compared to what's it like to be on retreat in a center?

Because it's quite different.

So I was on a meditation retreat at home.

It was a prerequisite for my course.

And it was at home.

And it was very strange because I was stuck at home and they were really trying to recreate a retreat that a person might have at a meditation center,

But at home.

So what that did though is it just reminded me of when I used to be locked in my room as a kid.

So that,

It was kind of,

It was an interesting way of looking at that.

So meditation retreats,

You know,

I think we can get quite hardcore and they can set up,

They can put,

They can have things that arise for us because this is about meditation.

So in terms of the topic,

Which is looking at things afresh for the season,

Then I think what I did do is I was able to understand some of the deep loneliness that I experienced as a child,

And,

But with a new lens of being an adult.

And to really look at that as a large,

As I guess it's a deep wound,

But it's a long time ago now,

You know,

So it's 40 years or whatever,

So over 45 years ago now.

So,

But it still sits there,

You know,

Came up,

Oh,

This is really unpleasant.

Why am I having such a miserable time?

Oh yeah,

That's right.

It reminds me of when I was locked in my,

You know,

As a kid,

My bedroom as a kid.

But it also gave me an opportunity to look fresh at some of the,

I would say,

Almost cruel ways that,

In fact,

My parents were cruel.

In fact,

My parents could be quite cruel.

How did they get to be like that?

And I really,

You know,

There were a couple of very,

Very good teachers there.

And I had,

You know,

We had group interviews.

And it was very good because I got to see something about my parents,

The way that we internalize care as children,

Then that,

When we're grown up and we have babies,

We grow up into people,

That the way that we have internalized care,

That's what we do then to our children,

Unless we look at it.

So if we inquire and we make a really,

So this is what we're doing here.

This is what meditation,

For me,

As a Western,

A Westerner,

This is a very Western approach.

It's to go,

What do I want to take with me from the past?

What is good?

What needs to be worked through?

What do I,

How can I do this so that I don't do the same things to others that have been done to me?

There's so many great dynamics with this.

This was a new form of retreat during the lockdowns.

I did this more during the lockdowns than here recently,

Although I am signed up to audit a course remotely.

You know,

What you're talking about too,

With Joseph Goldstein,

IMS in May,

I think it's the beginning or middle of May,

So possibly do this again.

But during the lockdown,

I did these too.

And in general,

For the whole world,

It was like the retreat that they didn't want to sign up for.

Everybody was forced to do this to some degree during the lockdowns.

Now,

What Wendy speaks about is,

During our childhood like this,

It's really profound,

These realizations of,

Yeah,

I see it so clearly,

Saw it so clearly,

Where my folks,

A lot of times,

They were just passing down things that have,

How they learned,

You know,

Until they turn inward and actually see it and realize,

Oh,

This is the thing that I learned from so-and-so.

This is not mine.

It will keep repeating and repeating until it's seen and known,

And then there's a choice,

Whether we're going to continue that type of rearing and behavior or something else can come in its way.

And it's just made,

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that actually we keep making the same,

People say it's a mistake,

But I want to say we do the same behavior more and more.

And it's like each time we're repeating it because there's a part of the mind and the body that want,

There's a part of the mind that is telling us we have something that we need to shift here.

And so I'm just going to put you back in the same situation again and again and again until you realize you need to shift here.

And if you don't pay attention to that,

Then you keep recreating the same problems.

And this is like anything in life.

It seems to,

Things seem to repeat over and over again until we kind of learn the lesson we need to learn from it.

The good news is that I like this spiral staircase method instead of a hamster wheel.

Every time we repeat it,

We get a higher and higher,

Broader perspective of what's going on.

So it's just not like this cycle that's just so overwhelming and daunting.

And these are habit patterns,

Right?

I think it's also important too to know,

To not beat ourselves up over this.

It's just cause and effect in a way.

We're doing the best we can.

Our parents actually did the best they could.

If they could have done better,

They would have.

Now it doesn't say what they did was right.

It doesn't excuse any wrongs.

Unwholesome,

I mean,

Harmful acts is harmful acts.

We never want to back them up and say that was okay because a lot of times it's not okay.

Harm is not okay.

Abuse is not okay.

At the same time,

They're doing the best they could to their ability.

Just as we are.

I.

.

.

But I think that what they're doing is they're recreating.

.

.

So I had this really big insight and I thought this was really useful to understand what are we doing?

What is it that gets us upset?

And I guess it's quite psychological,

But.

.

.

Um.

.

.

Because.

.

.

But it.

.

.

But let's see.

So my sense.

.

.

My.

.

.

My.

.

.

My thing that I did and you can let me know whether you.

.

.

You feel this is true too.

That what we're always scanning for in our interactions is does this person care about our needs and feelings?

So let me.

.

.

Let me ask you a question.

Sure.

Let me ask you a question.

All right.

So what.

.

.

What.

.

.

What has changed for you?

So what's something that you had that changed from meditation?

Like the same thing,

But a new perspective.

Yeah.

And this is something that Wendy.

.

.

When we were talking about before the.

.

.

The show here and one of the things she offered is,

You know,

We can also see how meditation can help us see things.

.

.

Old things in a new way,

Right?

There's so much with this.

And just by the way,

I'm just at the.

.

.

It's.

.

.

It's.

.

.

There's two people watching on YouTube.

I'm going there.

So as soon as you go to my YouTube channel,

You can see where we're live streaming.

So you just click on that.

So Sergio says he's in there.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Okay.

Good.

So he's.

.

.

He's.

.

.

He's.

.

.

He's juggling inside time.

Wow.

What a trooper like we are,

Huh?

Okay.

So far.

Okay.

So now here's.

.

.

Here's the thing with meditation.

Just how can meditation help us see things.

.

.

Old things in a new way?

And,

You know,

I've mentioned this several times before.

When I first started,

I started off kind of at rock bottom,

Right?

In my practice where it was kind of a last result.

And as soon as I did the first session,

Like for over an hour,

I mean,

I got little pith instructions before,

Right?

And so I sat down and it's like,

Well,

I'm just going to try this for longer periods.

And all these memories came back to me the very first time.

And it was like this huge relief just to replay those memories.

Now,

I wasn't doing traditional meditation right at all.

I was just basically closing my eyes in stillness and just letting the mind vomit up what it wanted to vomit up.

And that was one of the things that was like,

Wow,

That came up and it just felt so good to clear that out.

Then it kind of turned into.

.

.

I had a few mystical experiences right on.

But after that very first time I committed,

I was like,

Well,

This is such a relief the first time.

I don't have anything to lose.

I'm just going to do this every day now.

Just commit to it.

And I did.

Then I had a few mystical experiences,

Maybe for another time we can mention those,

But probably not because they're not really relevant unless to certain people on certain paths.

But then it started to turn into like my own therapy session for a while.

And this is before I really even got proper meditation instructions.

But what it did is it provided a space for memories to arise and see again.

I had forgotten all these things in my life.

Significant moments in my life started to reappear,

Relive.

And I saw how I was treating myself and I saw how I was really putting myself down.

It was basically like airing my dirty laundry to myself.

I saw all these things that I wasn't aware of before.

And then also how I was treating other people.

And I didn't realize how horrible I was treating them.

It was really like this sobering moment.

And so there was this deep kind of sadness and regret for this.

And just also at the same time,

A relief that now that I could see this and know this,

Now I had a chance to act on it.

Because if I didn't know it was there to begin with,

I don't really have a chance in heck to do anything about it.

Right.

So then maybe not the wisest thing,

But I found myself really reaching out to people I hadn't talked to for years and years.

And asking for their forgiveness.

And they're like,

I don't even remember that.

What are you talking about?

Or,

Oh,

That's OK.

Everybody does that.

But for me,

It was this really deep moving thing that I felt really important to do.

And that was part of the journey there too.

Now,

So this is another thing about just viewing ourselves,

Our past selves with kindness.

And this goes with the future exercise,

Just to jump ahead a little bit.

I think Tara Brach uses this technique of what wisdom would our future self have for us now?

If we could tap into our wise self,

Just like if I could have tapped in back then to now,

What would that future self,

What words of wisdom,

What care and kindness,

Or at least compassion in saying,

Yeah,

This is fricking tough right now.

So I think just seeing things that way and applying wisdom to things.

What about you,

Wendy?

How have you seen things in your past differently now through meditation?

I don't know how much to say because people who are on Insight Time can't hear me.

But I think it's really given me,

So there's something about,

Well,

If I can give space to my thoughts and see,

It's like,

You know when you're in the heat of something and it drives you a bit nuts and you're kind of like,

Yeah,

It's like that,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah,

Rah.

And then the next day you go,

Oh my goodness,

What did I do?

I'm completely misunderstood.

And it's like I do that,

So no one can hear me on Insight Timer.

Oh,

No.

Oh,

No,

Guys,

Go to my YouTube channel,

Please.

I'm sorry.

I don't understand why they're not,

This hasn't happened before.

Everybody's always been able to hear you on Insight Timer.

You know what I'm going to do,

Wendy,

Keep talking and I'm going to start up the Insight Timer stream on a different browser.

So I'll be right back on Insight Timer.

You can still talk if you want.

Okay,

Well,

No one can hear me except,

I suppose,

Sergio,

You can hear me,

I think.

Yes,

If they're watching on YouTube,

They can.

Oh,

No.

And I don't know if they can,

I don't know if I can restart the stream since I ended it on YouTube on Insight Timer.

We'll see here,

Though.

I'm starting it up and see if I can still do that.

The event might have ended once I hit end.

So I might just have to finish it out on YouTube.

Oh,

It is what it is.

We'll just.

Okay,

So Sergio can hear me.

So I'll just keep going because you're offline.

Okay,

Great.

So thank you,

Sergio,

For keeping me abreast of where you're up to.

This is really helpful.

So for me,

Just to answer your question,

Josh,

How has meditation made me really think about it?

So it's more that when I used to have a really volatile character,

Very angry.

And once I realized that if I didn't react,

I got a new perspective.

So it's like when I didn't react,

When I just sat with it and didn't react,

Then everything was really everything old is new again.

And that was what was really good.

So,

Yeah,

Just so you know,

There's four people.

Let me have a look in that and see if there's anybody on the timer.

No,

It's what it's doing now.

It gives me mixed messages.

It says live now,

But then it says watch replay.

So it's not.

It looks like the event has ended and it's not allowing me to pick it up yet.

Okay.

All right.

Let's leave the tech because I think we've had like 20 seconds of conversation because you're really caught in that and all the rest.

So that's a lesson for us that when it doesn't work,

It doesn't work.

And then we just have to drop it and then just rely on the YouTube.

It's tough for me to integrate presence like this,

Right?

Yeah.

Integrate presence.

You know,

Like how hard is it?

It's so hard because it's all a little bit,

You know.

And so what are we doing?

We're talking about meditation and we're talking about doing getting something more getting something new.

And it's not it's just getting the old stuff and thinking,

Well,

What what what am I missing?

I mean,

This is my this is a big part of my practice.

I'm an I'm so engaged with the insight stuff.

And I heard something the other day on a treat,

Which was so Sergio,

Just so you know,

I was on meditation retreat.

You couldn't hear me that that the Buddha said,

If there is one one thing you need in terms of your meditation practice,

Your whole Dharma practice,

It is actually just curiosity.

So that is if you have nothing else.

Curiosity is the most important thing.

And curiosity about,

I guess,

Where are our blind spots?

What are we not seeing?

What are we missing?

Because clearly we do things.

And the problem isn't that we need to do something new.

It's that we need to get a broader we're missing information.

So we need to remove a cloud to allow the sun to shine.

So it's more there.

I think that's what I think for sure.

It really is.

You know,

The historical Buddha,

He was a seeker after truth when he left and went into the holy life.

That's what his title was.

And I forget the Pali word for it,

But it was a seeker after truth.

You know,

This curiosity.

And this was what drove me so profoundly in the very beginning.

I was having insight after insight,

Discovering new things.

And it was really exciting and kept going deeper and asking questions and investigation.

You know,

This notion of investigation is one of the awakening factors.

You know,

It has to be there.

You know,

We have to see and know this for ourselves.

We can't have someone else tell us about it.

I mean,

We can,

But to really see and know it for ourselves is a requirement and it's encouraged,

Too.

And this is where curiosity comes in,

Because if we don't have that curiosity to even want to look into things or can see the potential importance of it,

Then a lot of times we're not going to do that.

You know,

So,

Yeah,

This is a really huge part of the path for sure.

And it's more of an active part of it,

Too.

We talk about being passive in meditation and allowing that's part of it.

There's also this kind of active curiosity,

Too,

And curiosity in the body.

You know,

How does this feel in the body?

You know,

Where do these thoughts and emotions,

I guess,

Physicalize or what is the physical correspondence in the body of these things?

Yeah.

And I guess I was thinking what that says,

It's a kind of prison.

We live in the prison.

And what meditation does is it shows us that we are in prison.

Now,

I have actually a prison on the mind because I got a letter from my friend who is in prison.

So I have never known anybody personally who has been in jail.

And she just I was like,

Where is she gone?

And the next thing I hear a mutual friend is gone.

She's in jail.

So luckily she's it's a woman,

Not a man,

Because if she went to a man's prison,

You know,

That that's its own special form of hell.

But yeah,

She she's in this prison and now she's really she's stuck in this place,

Realizing that she's in a prison and it is her own imprisoning mind that has left her into this physical prison.

So she's it's like she had to get herself into a corner,

Such a corner.

Yeah,

To go actually,

I realized I'm like this mess and I'm I mean,

I know I'm a mess,

But I how do I reach out?

How do I do?

I mean,

I just for people in in Australia,

There are prison chaplains.

So there are Buddhist prison chaplains.

And I think in the US that's quite common too.

And they do fantastic work because it's such an important service.

So thank you to all the prison chaplains who and school chaplains and people who hospital chaplains who who really intervene in people's lives in in really difficult,

In difficult,

Difficult circumstances when they're at their rock bottom.

Yeah,

There's just there's so much to this.

San Francisco Zen Center has a famous outreach program to San Quentin,

I think it is.

And if Buddy Denny knew who used to do a monthly thing with he was part of that and would go into prisons.

And there's just so much really wisdom and relief people get from this.

Talk about where practice really can make a difference for sure.

There's been I think there was a movie years ago called The Dictionary of the Mind.

There was a movie years ago called Dhamma Brothers about how they did a Vipassana retreat at a prison.

You've seen that one?

I saw it.

I don't know if it was a Vipassana retreat.

I saw one where they were where it was a therapy weekend and the ordinary lay population could go in and work with these prison guys.

It's very,

It's amazing work.

And you just see these things.

Anyway,

Sergio has said,

Yes,

It seems to me like a patience of will,

A patience will of wisdom guiding our best intentions to no more useful needed wisdom.

So I think what he's saying there is that patience is what you really need.

And that wisdom guides us in our best intentions.

So we know what is going to give us more wisdom.

Yes.

And the other thing about,

I was really like this movie called Shawshank Redemption,

Years ago.

It's just this whole notion because the metaphor of a prison with stress and suffering and unsatisfacted,

We're all in a metaphorical prison until we're fully awakened.

It really resound with me.

And it's interesting too that Australia was originally known,

Some people say a prison colony,

Right?

I mean,

I don't know if it's derogatory or not,

But I don't know the truthfulness of it.

But for me,

What this all boils down to is we do not have a chance to free ourselves until we realize we're in a prison.

And this is metaphorically,

Right?

Until we realize the bonds and how we're bound by the stress that sometimes we don't even know is there.

There's no chance whatsoever of getting beyond it,

Right?

First,

We have to realize that there's this metaphorical prison that we're in of stress and unsatisfactory.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I'll just give you a heads up.

So New South Wales is what they call a penal colony.

So the English,

They do like to incarcerate.

And if you just,

They needed to populate Australia because they were stealing all the land.

So as a fantastic Aboriginal elder says,

You know the English,

They just want more land.

They're just obsessed by land ownership,

Which is such a strange concept in and of itself.

How can you own land?

What does that even mean?

The land owns us,

Not we own the land.

It's a very strange idea.

So just on that one.

And it actually has completely permeated the culture because when you start off with a very male dominated culture,

That actually makes it a very macho society.

So I don't know if in the south of the US in Texas,

Those places,

They were very male dominated in the early days.

And that's why it has a much more masculine culture.

I don't know.

But that's it.

It is.

And ironically,

Too,

Though,

They have these,

You know,

These,

You know,

These,

You know,

They have these,

The land rules are different there.

It's basically if anybody wants a lot of open land,

Then they can just go live there.

You know,

You don't have to go through a bunch of government stuff or whatever.

You know,

They kind of leave people on their own to work it out amongst themselves.

But I think it's changing.

And I don't know 100% for sure about that.

But yeah,

You know,

I can see it both ways.

I get when,

You know,

People are greedy and they want things and they're just going to have to have it their way.

Well,

Then if everybody's living amongst themselves like that mindset,

Then it makes sense to put up fences,

The saying that,

You know,

Good fences make good neighbors,

Right?

People take care of a certain spot.

And if they're not,

You know,

They need someone else or a law to maintain a certain amount of ground.

Otherwise,

They would just be shooting everybody.

That's on one hand.

On the other hand,

Yeah,

Exactly.

How can I say,

OK,

Well,

I'm going to pick up this dirt and this is my dirt,

Right?

It's just like,

You know,

Wait a second.

No,

This back over here,

That's yours.

That's your dirt.

But no,

This one is mine.

It's just so absurd.

Yeah.

So let's get back to meditation.

But I think that that is perhaps exactly the same in meditation,

Because we say something is ours or something is true or this is how it is,

As if that is true because we feel it to be true.

But when you and this is why I love interdependence and looking at how things come together in meditation,

Well,

Everything is always so dynamic and moving.

And that's what is so clear in meditation,

That every moment is a new moment.

I had this,

Did I ever tell you my cleaning the toilet story?

Well,

If you did,

Tell it again.

It's appropriate.

So I was a Sunday morning and I was cleaning the toilet.

I didn't have anywhere to go or anything to do that Sunday.

So and I was just getting more and more agitated.

And I was going,

Ah,

I should have finished this by now.

And I just thought everything is only in this place with for the first time.

So this body is this age,

This toilet brush is this particular toilet brush,

This toilet,

This apartment,

The water,

I guess all the bodily bits that are in the toilet.

Everything is only in that way for the first time in that particular moment.

So then everything is in this constant state of flux and dynamic.

Now,

Sergio has just said,

Blow your mind with the active side of infinite from Castaneda.

If you saw Matrix and found it interesting as concept,

That book will give a clue.

Thank you,

Sergio.

Yes,

I'm familiar with the Carlos Castaneda books.

And by the way,

That was one of the books early on my path to awakening,

Really profoundly mind opening.

I would just advise people reading those,

Be very careful.

If you're going to do any of the thing in those books,

Do it under the guidance of a skilled master practitioner,

Because there's some very,

I would say,

Potentially dangerous practices in that book.

So yeah,

Very fast.

And I mean,

On meditation retreats,

When they're very strict,

That also can be a problem.

And I've known people with a disposition to psychosis to go full on psychotic.

And I've known about people who had no disposition when they were on very,

Pushing,

Pushing,

Pushing themselves,

That that caused problems.

So there is starting to be some really good research about the importance of taking care of your mind.

So always,

It's like you,

It's good to apply yourself,

But don't whip yourself.

Don't push and make it a hard experience.

It's about love.

It's about how much care and kindness you're having.

Yeah.

So,

So Sergio says,

Eckhart Tolle also gave light on Handel,

An unstoppable,

Chattering drama mind.

Hmm.

I wonder if Sergio's English needs to be a little better.

Or he's just an enlightenment bot.

No,

I don't know.

But either way.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

But this,

This is a good point anyway,

Because we were talking about land,

Right?

And the intensities that intense meditation can happen.

So when those kind of really new experiences that become diffuse,

And we lose this ground,

The sense of reference point that can be destabilizing and very overly spacious and unsettling for us people.

And this is when these boundaries can be very helpful,

Right?

Coming back into the body,

Feeling the body,

Knowing there's a physical boundary around the body,

Right?

Feeling the groundedness on the,

On the cushion.

These clear,

Very physical boundaries that can help ground us and center us when these expansive states come,

And that can be on stabilizing and de-settling for some people.

On the other hand,

There's some people that are just become so entrenched in the comfort of that,

That they don't want to push the boundaries.

They don't want to go beyond this.

And so they're always kind of complaining about nothing's happening in my meditation.

You know,

It's the same thing over and over again.

When am I going to have these profound experiences?

So it's always about these,

You know,

Are not profound experiences.

It's like,

What,

You know,

I just,

It stuck basically,

You know.

So I think just to answer your question,

Sergio is a human being.

And so it's just.

.

.

I can only speak English.

So you'll have to forgive me for my lack of knowing any other language.

So I speak a couple of languages,

So I'm used to,

I'm used to,

And I spent time in international communities.

So,

And English is the lingua franca for across the world.

So many people have a good grasp and,

You know,

The grammar's sometimes a little bit tricky.

So English grammar can be a little bit,

You know,

At three o'clock in the morning or wherever Sergio is.

So,

And he says,

Yeah,

There is needed caution and responsibility with it all.

And that's what we're describing here.

Selfless responsibility,

Absolutely.

Like empowering at the same time,

Self-responsibility.

Yeah.

So,

All right,

We're coming up to quarter two.

So what,

What we were going to talk about old and new and starting fresh.

Yes.

And in relation to meditation.

So what,

What would you,

And Sergio,

If you would like to find out,

Then do you have a question Sergio about meditation and starting fresh or anything like that?

You just post up there and I will.

This is the things we hear teachers talk about again and again,

Right?

Because,

You know,

When we're doing more like Samatha practice,

We're just having one object and the mind keeps wandering off,

Keeps wandering off.

Every moment we wake up to that,

It's a chance to start anew,

Bring the attention back to the meditation object and start all over again,

You know?

And for some people,

This can be like,

This is where a lot of people give up.

You know,

They say,

Well,

My mind is just too unruly.

I can't do this.

It's all over the place.

I say,

Well,

Hello,

Wake up.

That's everybody until they,

They go within and see that that's just how,

You know,

Out of control the mind is,

You know,

That it has no shame.

At the same time,

You know,

This is just the nature of the mind until it's trained.

You know,

An untrained mind is,

Can be the,

You know,

The most horrible enemy,

But a trained mind can be the most powerful ally.

And so this is a training just like we would go to the gym or,

You know,

Figure out how to clean our house quicker and more efficiently or anything like this,

Or learn a new subject.

It's a training and it requires,

It's unlike a lot of other trainings where a lot of times it's,

It's starting from zero over and over and over and over again.

So I met somebody the other day,

I go to Toastmasters.

So I really like it.

I moved up here to a new area.

So I would recommend it if you want to meet people who aren't at work or whatever,

Just to do Toastmasters.

I found it very personally,

Very beneficial and good for my self-confidence and makes me feel connected to the community.

And there's somebody new and he has a brand new job as the National Sales Manager.

And he says,

Oh,

Meditation.

So I said,

Oh,

I teach people to meditate.

Oh,

Meditation,

I can't meditate.

You know,

I sit down and my mind goes crazy.

And I said,

Yeah,

Okay,

That's,

That's just normal.

We won't worry about talking about that now,

But here's a practice for you.

So what I said to him is,

So you meet people and you have a secretary and he does,

And his secretary helps him prepare all the papers,

Sets up the meeting.

And the secretary is a man and is an ally,

Really guiding him in his new role about attention,

This person here and be careful with that there.

It's a lot of informal information that gets shared there.

And so I said,

Every time your secretary does something to make your life a little bit easier,

You simply notice it.

And then at the end,

And then maybe somebody holds a door open for you or someone writes thank you in an email or somebody prepares good documents that or they go into the meeting and they've thought about how can,

How can we do this well together?

And then every time someone does something like that,

You just notice.

And then at the end of the day,

When you get into bed,

You just go through that whole list of all the times since the beginning of the day that somebody did something kind for you.

And what happens eventually is you get the Deshenz smile,

Which is the authentic smile.

It's the one where you see,

You see people who are just genuinely happy.

That's the Deshenz smile.

So the eyes are crease up at the side and you could,

And your body resonates,

You know,

When someone has a Deshenz smile.

And so we talked about how he,

He comes from a very,

Very humble background.

He's clearly very good at his job.

He's rising,

Rising,

Rising super quick.

And it's slightly above his comfort zone.

And so I talked about how doing this practice will build the Deshenz smile and noticing all those small little gestures will help him build and fortify his relationships so that people who may be a little bit wary of him or something,

You know,

The new kids come in,

That little meditation practice is changing him to respond always in a more favorable way.

And,

And since he's just starting the job,

You know,

It's a perfect time because people haven't yet formed much of an opinion of him.

And he,

And he thought it was a very handy,

So new beginnings.

So I don't think you need to be sitting down for 20 minutes.

Not everybody is ready for that.

And I don't think it's good to start that way.

Because it's a big gig,

You know,

It's a lot.

I mean,

I just,

When I met my partner,

I said,

Okay,

Well,

We'll just sit together for five minutes.

And then 10 minutes,

I think we did 10 minutes and then 15 and then 20 and then 30.

And now,

You know,

If I can,

I'll do two hours.

He's like,

No,

He can do it.

But it's too much time.

But yeah.

This is such a beautiful practice you mentioned,

Because,

Well,

First off,

It's gratitude,

Right?

We can't be in conflict with something we're grateful for.

And this is a systematic thing that appeals to people that are more right-brained,

Right?

It's a clear practice.

Okay,

I'm going to be looking for these things to appreciate and recognize,

You know,

And be grateful for.

It's,

It's,

And then all it really takes at that point is a commitment to remembering to do this,

To incline the mind for what to look at,

Just like we are kind of normal default of negativity bias.

Oh,

We're looking at the threats,

Where they come from,

Right?

Because in the past,

That served us well,

You know,

A tiger jumps out.

Okay,

We wouldn't be on the lookout for tigers because we can save our lives.

So just how we can kind of have that as the default,

We can switch the default to,

Okay,

What is,

You know,

Where's the benefit of this?

How is this person's actually helping,

You know,

This,

Looking for these things to balance out,

Right?

And to,

To make things gratitude.

I do the,

The kind of the opposite.

I mean,

For a while there,

For years,

I was just reviewing my day and I still do,

I keep a journal.

So I will go list through what happened during the day,

Just to kind of recall it,

Because I don't really have a,

You know,

A memory for just mundane things that happen day to day,

But I like to just list them out at the end of the day.

But then if I want to go back,

You know,

Years later and look at a particular day,

I can say,

Well,

Yeah,

I remember that day or,

Oh,

I have no idea what the hell that day happened there.

But so,

But now waking up in the morning and just my gratitude practices,

What is spontaneously coming into mind?

And can I be grateful for that?

And just this prompting,

You know,

What can I be grateful for?

Um,

You know,

And usually it's,

Well,

I have a nice soft bed to lay in,

A warm bed,

On and on and on.

Yeah.

So,

Yeah.

Yeah.

So why I've heard that,

But I,

It's two things that in there,

I,

The journal,

Journaling thing that seems to have come into the meditation realm in the last,

I don't know what,

Five,

Six,

Seven years.

I don't remember it being part of that.

I don't use it.

I don't use it for meditation.

I just,

It's a long for me.

It's,

It's,

Uh,

What did I,

What I did during the day.

So I'm using it differently than people do it for,

You know,

Oh,

I got to journal day out.

No,

I just keep track of my day that way.

So it has nothing to do with meditation practice.

So,

Um,

Sergio says,

Once I had an experience in a group meditation workshop,

For some moment,

I felt,

Uh,

Like I was,

Had been floating in a totally timeless space.

No sensation of time or body.

So weird,

But unforgettable.

Is it common?

Josh,

You answer that.

I would say,

Yes,

I hear these things from meditation practitioners all the time.

The danger is on both sides for this is getting,

Um,

Getting attached to these,

Uh,

Peak experiences or the other end where I never had these peak experience.

I want these peak experiences or the,

The other leg is these aren't important at all.

It should completely blow them off and play no importance to them.

So I think the balance is in the middle of all three of those perspectives,

Right?

Some of the peak experiences can be very helpful and giving aspiration towards the profound nature of the mind and phenomena.

But when we're chasing peak experiences all the time,

Then we can get disappointed and upset and we can miss the fundamental levels.

And if we don't see any significance at all in these type of experiences,

Well,

Then we just kind of get mired in our crap more and more every day and don't see kind of any aspiration,

You know,

Or art,

You just,

It's slogging along.

This is just,

Ah,

It's just matter and whatever,

You know,

Just,

Um,

Physical things and whatnot.

And,

Uh,

Yeah,

But it,

So it's,

It's finding a balance between all this as far as commonality,

You know,

That's the beautiful diversity of life too,

That we do have unique experiences and sometimes we have very common experiences too.

So,

Yeah.

Can I add something?

Please.

And then pick up with the journal thing where you left off too as well.

Okay.

Uh,

So I would say I've had lots of weird experiences when I,

You know,

When I first started meditating,

I remember kind of getting on the train,

Was it the bus?

And I saw these people and I had instant,

Oh,

This is my friend.

And I were complete strangers and I wanted to go up and see them.

And then I had these,

I was like,

Wow,

What was that?

And then I had other experiences and I,

You know,

I've had one where I was the same as the tree at sort of,

I was just as important as the tree.

And,

And then I've had other ones where whatever experience and my,

My thought about them is they're really useful because as you,

As you say,

Sergio,

Weird but unforgettable.

And it's,

It's sort of,

I think in the beginning,

It's that first breakthrough and that's,

It's very intense because it's like a,

A cloud has been lifted and suddenly it's seen.

But then the cloud parts and then it's just an ordinary sunny day and it just becomes part of who we are and we're not more special for it.

It's just like,

Well,

We've got a one time we had a really lovely shirt on and we felt really smart or we were wearing a nice suit or something.

And we felt so special in that moment because we were all dressed all fancy and nice.

And then it was lovely to know that experience to be dressed so nicely and smart and,

And looking good.

And then we take off the coat and we remember what it's like to have that lovely experience.

And so when we see somebody walking in the street who looks really smart,

We can go,

Oh,

I remember what it was like.

Or we might have a nephew or a son who's wearing a suit like that.

And they're like,

Oh,

Like,

Look at me,

I'm so like,

I look so good.

And then you go,

I remember that.

That was such a,

It was so important.

It was such a beautiful moment.

So I think like that,

That,

That,

That is the way that I see it as something that it changes me and it helps means then when I read the text.

So sometimes when I read,

You know,

Books or I hear somebody describing a teacher describing an experience,

I go,

I know exactly what they're saying.

Whereas before I was trying to understand what they were saying.

But in this one,

I feel like,

Yes,

I know what they're saying.

And that,

That it,

It has a,

You know,

Until you've eaten a strawberry,

You can look at as many pictures of strawberries as you like,

But until you've eaten a strawberry,

You then know what a strawberry tastes like.

So more like that.

And then you go,

Oh,

Next time you look at a strawberry,

You go,

I know what that tastes like.

So something down there,

That's what I would say.

It is.

And I just want to amplify a little more that they become more commonplace,

Right?

And so we can start to see the profundity in our everyday mundane lives too.

If we just spend a few extra seconds inquiring deeper into the nature of just something as mundane as like a coffee cup,

You know,

Like how,

Who are all the people involved in this?

You know,

What was the temperature like to heat this cup?

Where did the materials come from?

Who came up with the design of this?

Who shipped it everywhere?

You know,

Would this tea set look great in my kitchen or would it be an aberration to have it there and all my friends would make fun of me?

So I had a really interesting,

Because we're going to wind up in a minute,

But I had a really interesting one.

So I was on a retreat,

A home retreat,

Last year,

I think it was,

And somebody did a talk about ancestors.

So she had been in Australia and it was a Buddhist retreat,

But it crossed the Northern Territory.

So a lot of the old people,

So the Aboriginal elders,

No longer there,

But very clearly,

You know,

Still there in the spiritual memory,

I would say.

And so she did this talk about the ancestors and she talked about Ancestry.

Com and this desire to find out,

Well,

Where are our ancestors?

And I came off retreat,

Or maybe it was that day,

And I went into the bathroom and I looked at the bathroom tiles and I thought,

Bathroom tiles,

Actually?

What's the ancestry?

And so I looked it up on Wikipedia and for 3,

000 years people have been making tiles and there's people just crafting little,

Little,

Little,

So that eventually I end up with a bathroom tile.

Now Sergio asks another question and so it's going to be the last one,

Sergio,

Because we're just about out of time.

He says,

Would love to reach Aspral Projection effortless or at least lucid dream.

Now if you're interested in dream yoga,

There was a fantastic book by Andrew Halachek,

It's very thick and it's in English,

So that might be a little bit difficult,

But if you can get that book and maybe see if you can go through it very slowly,

He talks how to go through that.

So Sergio,

It's been lovely having you online.

Thank you so much for interacting with us.

Thank you so much.

This makes it worthwhile because this is what this show is made for,

Yeah,

These questions and feedback like this.

So maybe someday it'll work out technically.

Yeah,

And thank you for going from Insight Timer into YouTube.

It's really been lovely to have you here.

So you have a lovely time.

Just Sergio,

Whereabouts are you in the world?

And in the meantime,

One of the answers,

These tiles,

This is just like every aspect of real life,

It ties into the gratitude too.

Think of the people who've spent their entire lifetime,

Maybe generations studying the art and practice of making this so we can,

Something we take for granted every day,

But it really,

Imagine our lives without it.

And it's almost unimaginable,

We have to have all these different things,

Everything has to come together,

It's interconnected.

So has anyone experienced to separate spirit from body in a conscious state?

I haven't had that one.

So these are kind of more mystical practices that I don't know if this would be the right forum,

Especially coming to the end.

That's a huge question that maybe you can contact me offline,

Sergio,

And we can maybe look more into this because it's a really,

It's an iffy subject,

It needs to be approached carefully with these types of things.

I'm just going to,

Okay,

So I've just given Sergio,

I'm going to hop off the call because we're at the end of time,

But I've spent the,

It's called,

It's called Dream Yoga,

And it's by Andrew Holacek.

So I've now spelt the name correctly.

Sergio,

Have you got that name?

I think he's happy.

So I think he can read the chat on that one.

But Guatemala,

He's in Guatemala.

Okay,

Fantastic,

Lovely.

So I don't speak any Spanish.

So do you speak any Spanish,

Josh?

Other than when I used to drink cerveza and I needed to go to the bathroom so they could tell me where to go to the bathroom at.

That's about it.

Okay.

I'm well for water too.

No.

Okay.

All right.

So that's it.

Yes,

That's it.

I think we're done.

Thank you all for joining and bearing with the technical difficulties.

May you all be well and have all the auspicious changes that are required.

Bye now.

Yeah,

And just chill.