Little Women Podcast: Where Is The German Friedrich Bhaer

This time Christina and I are chatting about the fact that Friedrich Bhaer has never been played by an actual German actor in a major Little Women film adaptation, despite the fact that Louisa May Alcott was nuts about Germany. The material is educational and can be also used in literal research. Grown-up bedtime stories offer a pleasant distraction at the end of the day. A soft place to land for your tired body and busy mind to rest.

Transcript

Hi,

My name is Nina.

This episode originally appeared in the Little Woman podcast,

Which is a podcast that I host.

I am joined by Christina Scott,

Who is a fellow Little Woman fan and a blogger.

I hope you enjoy our discussions.

Good and talk,

Little Woman fans.

Today's comment shoutout goes to a fellow Finn.

This is a quote from the blogger Love for Moving Pictures.

A decent director or someone who wants to adapt a story should be able to separate themselves from the feelings of the characters.

Perhaps Gerwig hates Germans and German accents,

But she should have allowed Jo to have a different opinion,

Since her character has existed over a hundred years.

And that Gerwig says that she is respecting Alcott by leaving Jo as spinster or even suggests that Jo wants to be with Laurie,

Goes against that she makes fun of those qualities in a person that Luisa May Alcott herself was attracted to.

My friend Little Woman fan,

Jimena,

Who I have also quoted on this podcast,

She read the novel after she had seen the 2019 film and she was really amazed.

She was expecting Frick to be this terrible person because that's the image that Greta Gerwig had portrayed about him when she was promoting her film.

Then Jimena read the book and she was surprised that Frick was actually this kind and caring man who was very supportive of Jo's writing.

And then she was very shocked about the way Laurie was treating Jo in the novel and Greta Gerwig had said nothing about it.

Earlier in this podcast we did an episode about Laurie being half Italian and having brown skin and what it meant in the 19th century America.

It's only fair that we discuss about Frick's character as well and the fact that he comes from Germany and same way as Laurie has never been played by a brown skin actor in a major adaptation,

Frick has never been played by a German actor.

And today we are discussing this with Little Woman blocker Christina Scott.

I used to study German in school and when I was 17 I was in exchange in Berlin of all cities and I remembered that before I left I had reread the Little Woman series.

And I was so inspired by the part where Jo was learning German.

It was my first time traveling alone abroad and I was like if Jo,

Who is one of my heroes,

Can manage to study German,

I can sure manage to live abroad and speak German.

That Jo wanted to study another language gave me confidence.

Then some years later when I went back to read Little Woman again,

I actually realized that the reason why Jo wanted to study German in the first place was because she was crushing on Frick.

And then I just had to think that maybe somewhere in the back of her mind she was unconsciously thinking that she wants him to be part of her life because why else would she bother?

One of the scenes I remember very vividly is the one when Frick comes to court Jo and Jo suggests that they perform a German song together.

And just the fact that Jo knows what his favorite song is,

It shows not only how much she loves him but how much she has respect for his culture.

I was really surprised that when I started to do research on Frick's character,

I would come across some highly respected Alcott schoolers,

Maybe not so respected after this episode comes out,

Who would have lots of hostility of Frick being German and having a German accent.

It was such a huge contrast to all the other studies that I found that handled Louisa May Alcott's admiration and love for the German culture and literature.

There are lots of Alcott schoolers from the English speaking areas who take Louisa May Alcott's love for Germany very seriously,

But those studies were a lot more closer to the truth.

Then even just as recently as 2019 film tour Greta Gerwig was saying how much she was horrified that Jo would marry an old German guy who speaks with a terrible German accent and I'm like,

First of all he's 39 years old,

Gerwig herself is about the same age,

So why are you calling him old?

And one of the first things that Jo says about Frick in the novel is that she found his accent very attractive and even calls it musical.

I would not call myself as a Germanophile the same way as Louisa May Alcott was,

But I think my fondness for German culture and history actually might have started from Frick's character because I was always very fond of him,

Even as a child.

If I think about the way American media portrays Germans,

It is mostly rather negative.

In Europe,

Relating to other cultures tends to be a lot more neutral because it is a lot more easier to travel between countries and there is over 50 countries in Europe,

So there is a lot more exposure and in most countries you study at least 2 or 3 languages in school.

Here in Finland we tend to take our free education system for granted,

But by the time when I was 13 that I could say something in 3 different languages,

In English,

German and Swedish in my case,

That's actually really impressive.

Germany is a country,

They have worked a great deal with their past and in Germany,

At least in Berlin,

It's illegal to make any references to Nazis or things of that sort and Hitler wasn't even born in Germany,

He was born in Austria.

And he actually had difficulties to get a German nationality because he had such a long criminal record.

I just saw a documentary about this,

So to me when a schooler or a filmmaker uses Frick's Germaniness against them,

It shows how little they know or care about Luisa May Alcott because her favorite books came from Germany and if I quote Christine Doer's essay on this topic,

When a large part of Americans discriminated German immigrants in the beginning of the 19th century in Jost and Frick's marriage,

Luisa May Alcott took her favorite elements from the German culture and combined that into the American culture,

Promoting her ideas of a transnational family.

This is Moel and Brerein,

Little Woman podcast,

Where is the German Frederick Baer?

One of the things I wanted to ask about you,

As we have this goal that we want a German actor to play Professor Baer at some point,

I have read quite many stories from German readers and people who are German descendants who love Frederick's character and because he represents such a wonderful German character,

And I'm a German,

I did study a bit of German in school,

But I've been doing this research on Luisa May Alcott's obsession with Germany and it's every single page.

How do you feel about that?

Why Hollywood doesn't hire great German actors?

Yeah,

I know.

I don't know if it was almost at first,

Like,

An ex-ability.

I mean,

It sort of started in its making of the late 1910s,

Early 1920s.

Talkies were very new in the 30s.

I don't know if this is very true,

But this is what I can imagine,

Is that maybe at first when they were doing it,

They,

One,

Didn't have a lot of German actors.

I mean,

They could barely get regular actors who were pulling them from the stage and trying to teach them how to perform on camera,

But I almost want to think that they probably didn't get German actresses because during that time there was the rise in Nazis and they're like,

And I feel like that sort of stereotype has gone forward because for anyone that does not know,

I am of a German descent.

My grandmother on my dad's side came over from Germany and she was like in her early 20s or so when she came over.

The story was that she,

And this was,

I think,

Just proof that not every German is horrible.

Like,

You know,

Every time someone associates Germany,

They go Nazis and it's like,

No,

But they lived in East Berlin and comparatively East Berlin was worse than,

You know,

West Berlin.

Like West people were trying to get into West Berlin and she and her family had to be smuggled into West Berlin because her father,

Who would be my great-grandfather,

Was the postmaster general and he was smuggling like information between the Nazis and the Russians to the Allies.

And they were like,

Okay,

Well,

We got to get you to the West to protect you.

Like my whole life,

And it's very difficult.

Like I'm German on my dad's side among a few other things,

But on my mom's side,

It's Italian,

Armenian.

I feel like whenever you ask someone,

Like if you say like,

You know,

I'm Italian,

Like people kind of be are more and more like,

You know,

Oh,

That's all you wanted a me for then the past.

They do a little bit more of like funny,

Like stereotyping.

It's like,

Oh yeah,

Ha ha.

And you talk with your hands and it's like,

Yeah,

Like,

But like,

As soon as you say like,

Oh,

I'm like part German,

They go like,

Were your family like Nazis?

Like they just immediately go to like Nazis or like someone bad.

And most of the time,

I feel like when you see Germans portrayed in media,

They're Nazis or the villain slash that sort of cold unapproachable person,

Or I will try to say the nicest way possible,

But like weird fetish person that may be borderline illegal,

Like that kind of weirdo.

And it's like,

Why,

Why all the time that so it really was rough to find characters I felt were very pro German that were just so nice or normal or just gave a positive image to Germany.

And I was like,

Really,

The only person I can think of is Friedrich,

Like he is a very genuinely good person.

He is smart,

He is respectful.

And it's such a shame because the things that I've read about Germany,

I'm like,

Wow,

Like,

You guys are great.

Like,

There's a movie that Germany did that is like from like,

I want to say like the 1910s with Conrad Bight,

That is way before anyone's time being pro gay,

Like pro LGBT.

Like that's incredible.

And that he also did another movie where it was like pro abortion,

It's a woman's choice if she wants to have a kid or not,

And there's nothing psychologically wrong with him.

Like that is incredibly progressive.

Unfortunately,

The country has been so overshadowed by what the Nazis have done.

And it's like,

Not every German person was a Nazi,

And they not everyone agreed with it.

So over the years,

I felt a little bit more protective of my German side,

Because I feel like I'm leaning towards being more German traded.

But yeah,

Friedrich for me was first of all,

He's like,

Almost like my dream man,

Like I want someone like him.

And if it turns out that he's German,

Like,

Why not?

And it just bothered me that now,

Now that we have a lot more accessibility to actors from all around the world,

Why there isn't more German actors playing the part.

And in some cases,

I'd have allowed to sort of be forgiven what like William Shatner and I'm,

Oh,

I'm forgetting his name is.

No,

The BBC version one.

Yes,

Yes.

Like,

I can forgive those because even though they are like American slash British,

They are still putting like a German accent,

We're not totally forgetting a bit that the character is meant to be German.

Whereas the Gerwig version,

You have a French man playing a German character with a very German name.

It's not even like you try to change it to sort of be like,

All right,

We'll try to fit his nationality a little bit more.

But like,

I'm hearing a French accent saying that he's Friedrich Baer,

Very German name.

It's so confusing.

And yeah,

Like,

I just boggled my mind that like,

On one hand,

Her statement of being like,

And this can go into a whole can of worms of when she was like,

Well,

You know,

Why not give Joe a handsome man to fall for?

And I'm because I'm tired of seeing these attractive girls fall for these not so attractive guys.

And it's like,

On one hand,

You're right.

In some cases,

But like,

That's not the point here.

Because one,

Again,

You didn't read the book.

Joe was not supposed to be conventionally attractive.

And neither is Friedrich.

She's not giving me a good enough reason.

Not to be a German actor.

Yeah.

Right.

And if you could see me,

My hands are just moving all the place in frustration.

But like,

How am I allowed to swear?

How in the hell do you sit there and go,

I need to find an attractive German actor.

They don't exist.

But Daniel Bruhl is right there.

He's been right there for so many years.

How do you not see him?

I just I can't believe it.

And there are other great German actors.

He's like the first one that comes to mind like how,

How I like that is the thing that boggles me the most.

As someone pointed out,

They're like,

Well,

As much as I do want to be Friedrich,

I and knowing how the Gerwig story comes out,

I would not have wanted them in that one.

And I think that's fair,

Because that would have been a total disservice to him and the character.

You're singing them a long series with Daniel Bruhl as Professor Bear.

Movie between two.

Yeah,

I'll take whether it's a time period canon or like modern day,

Like,

Because I am just one of those people that I like to sort of daydream and just sort of like,

Hmm,

What would I do if I was ever given the chance to make my own version?

I have it like all planned out.

And he would definitely be one of the actors.

And in my version,

It would be like a miniseries and set in the modern day,

But like,

Pretty much the section with him,

It would be just all like Joe and Friedrich.

It would be like,

Practically nothing else.

I think it's a shame.

I think it's a shame that,

You know,

In general,

Hollywood doesn't do much with foreign actors,

Because there's so many wonderful foreign actors,

And so underutilizing them,

I feel,

You know,

I get it.

Some people would be like,

Well,

What would a German be doing in America at this time?

Or like,

How could you make me believe this?

And I'm like,

Well,

That's the magic of movies,

You can suspend your disbelief for a little bit or the writers can be a little bit smarter and make it work.

But yeah,

It's such a shame.

And some movies I sit there,

I'm like,

Oh,

This actor is going to be in it.

Like,

I remember them from this movie.

And it's like,

Oh,

They're only in it for like,

Five minutes.

That's,

Hmm,

That's a shame.

They sit there and say,

America is supposed to be like the land of everybody that immigrants can come over.

And it's like,

Seems very fully just Americans.

Like,

Why can't there be a German living in New York City?

What's wrong with that?

Like,

I know quite a few British actors are living in like LA,

Like Ben Barnes and Dan Stevens,

Like they've made a home in America and a few other actors in other places.

It would work.

It makes it would make sense.

There's nothing it's not totally crazy.

I had gotten into The Alienist with Daniel Brule,

Obviously.

And it makes sense.

Like,

You know,

If someone was like,

Well,

How could they be born in America,

But still have an accent?

Well,

His character is raised in a home where it was his parents are German Hungarian,

And he was raised with being taught German.

And if that was pretty much what you spoke for most of the time,

You would grow to have that sort of accent.

So I think there are ways to utilize foreign actors in American media.

I just don't think that they're smart enough how to use it outside of German,

Nazi,

Italian,

Mafia,

Like,

Let's let's be a little bit smarter and better about that,

You know?

Yeah,

There are so many stereotypes about different European nationalities that are so outdated and old fashioned.

It's really a shame.

If I think about Finnish character,

You know,

In a Hollywood film they just hire us to be Vikings.

The fact that I lived in Germany many years ago,

I do remember thinking that Germans are very family oriented and very welcoming.

And I always connected that with the And you get stuff like Emily in Paris where you're not honoring her.

You're not honoring her.

You're not honoring her.

You're not honoring her.

And you get stuff like Emily in Paris where you're not honoring French culture.

You're not making fun of it.

It's so disrespectful.

Yeah,

I hope that somebody out there is going to listen to our rants and we are getting more sophisticated versions of Little Women.

Hopefully with Danny approval or other play German actors.

I think between him and Amy,

They are the most poorly interpretive characters in media,

Because I feel like that they're the most hated.

All the time I see people say like,

Oh,

How could Amy do that?

That was so awful.

Like the thinking of the burning of the manuscript and it's like,

Well,

For one thing,

And again,

I blame this on most of the media.

You have like a 20 something year old actress playing the part of what should be like a 12 year old.

So it comes across more mean spirited,

Especially with the Gerwig version,

Like when she's like,

Very calmly just like,

Well,

What was I supposed to do?

I didn't have anything else that would have made you upset.

It's like,

I'm sorry,

But that's too sophisticated of an answer for a 12 year old to say and again,

Coming from the mouth of a 20 something year old.

I can't believe it.

Yeah,

It's just that it's poorly interpreted.

Again,

When you have versions that try to be more Joe and Laurie oriented,

And yet add Friedrich in,

They almost feel like well,

He's,

They're trying to just make it he's stealing Joe away or Amy stole Laurie away.

I don't think most people know that the book when it was first published came out in two separate parts.

There wasn't going to be a second part but it was supposed to end when Meg gets married.

But people always seem like you know,

Oh,

Well,

They made her have Joe be married.

They made the like the publishers made her do it.

It's actually not true.

Right?

Some fans may have written to Alcott saying they can't Joe marry Laurie and but there was no pressure from to get Joe in general married.

And I love that Alcott was like,

I will not marry Joe the Laurie to please anybody.

It's like,

Yeah,

You go girl.

And they act like as if Friedrich was a last minute addition.

Right.

Like,

Again,

I think because people don't know it's publishing history that they think,

Oh,

It was just one book.

And then the publishers were like,

Well,

You need to have Joe marry off someone and she was like,

All right,

I guess this guy like no.

And again,

I feel like it's a service to Alcott to say that she just threw Joe with this guy.

And it's like,

No,

She didn't just throw Joe to this guy.

Like,

It's not like he appeared in the last 10 pages.

It's like,

Oh,

Yeah,

In love and married like no,

She develops a good and full on relationship between these two characters,

And it grows to become love,

And which is how the novel ends.

But,

But yeah,

It's amazing,

Like how people just kind of hear that.

And again,

I think it's because they see something on the internet that someone writes an article that says,

Oh,

What a shame that Joe couldn't be the independent writer,

Like Alcott originally wanted.

And it's like,

It's not the full picture.

And people just kind of latch on to that you got to kind of dig a little deeper,

Or at least have someone that is willing to go a little bit deeper,

Such as you and myself,

That will put it out there for everyone to be like,

Oh,

I didn't know that,

Like,

Now that makes sense.

When people say stuff like that,

I'm like,

You really don't seem to have not only respect for the characters,

But not for its author either.

I actually think it has a lot to do with what you said earlier about Joe's loneliness,

Or that she feels that she's going to be weaker when she wants romance or love or family for herself.

She's afraid of going to make her look weaker in the eyes of others.

And this actually mentioned in Little Woman,

In the Under the Umbrella chapter,

The narrator says that Joe was afraid that she's going to lose her reputation if she reveals to the world that she is like the other girls,

That she wants to have a family and marriage,

And she wants to fall in love.

When I've studied Louisa's life,

She was incredibly lonely,

Especially after Henry died.

And then she had this thing with Larry Wysniewski,

Who was one of the real life lorries.

That didn't turn out very well.

But then she could not tell that to the public,

Because she was afraid.

We're going to see her weaker.

She was always really annoyed when people pity her because she was a spinster.

That has a lot to do with the way the story in Little Woman goes because she wrote Joe and Fredrick's relationship to be her wish fulfilment.

And I always say this in this podcast because I think that's very true when you read her diaries,

And she writes how lonely she is and how she envies her sister's marriages.

I think it actually was quite nasty for Louisa to say that her publisher forced her to marry Joe because Louisa and her publisher Thomas Niles were very good friends and he never asked her to marry her characters.

And he didn't give her instructions about the characters.

So it was actually Louisa trying to protect her own reputation.

And I do definitely agree with you in that idea of a wish fulfilment.

You know,

They always say like,

It's better to be alone rather to be with someone and feel lonely.

So I can see why she would be like,

Don't pity me because I'm a spencer.

I'd rather be alone than be with someone that would make me feel lonely.

But yeah,

Like I said,

It's a wish fulfilment.

And I think it takes a whole other level of understanding Joe and Fredrick's relationship when you know that.

Not until hearing and seeing your work that I kind of realized like,

Oh,

There was like a real life Fredrick and like,

Oh my goodness,

There is,

You know,

An age gap that is the same as Alcott and Thoreau and Joe and Fredrick and so much of the description of Fredrick is based off of Thoreau.

Like I never knew those things.

But like now that like I know I'm like,

Wow,

That it really is,

Like you said,

Like,

It was her way of being with someone that she wants to be with.

And I think for most writers,

I personally feel this way.

Like,

Some of the things I write,

I'm just like,

I wish I could do those things or I wish I could meet someone like that or be that type of person.

So it's really not surprising when I hear that for someone like Alcott who has sort of been told by people that she is not conventionally attractive.

It's really what does her fans actually said that to her face that,

Oh,

You're you're not as pretty as Joe.

And if you truly believe that she is 100% the Arthur Avatar,

It's like,

Well,

That's supposed to be the same.

But it's funny that like,

Back then people said that Alcott is not attractive.

And I look and I will look at her picture and like,

Oh,

I think she was very attractive.

And I think people don't understand that when they think of things like I think it was in a podcast,

You said like when talking about the the actress that plays Joe in the modern day version of 2018 one,

They're like,

She's not very pretty to be with Friedrich and it's like,

Well,

One,

I think the actress is attractive,

But also like,

You're missing the point.

They said the same to Catherine Hepburn,

That she was boyish,

And well,

Joe is boyish.

Right.

Like,

I think people don't fully understand that.

And it's also dependent on the time period because someone made parallels to Joe and Lizzie Bennet.

You know,

They always say that Lizzie is not attractive.

Like,

We were I remember when I got my mom to watch the Colin Firth version of Pride and Prejudice.

And we were listening how like,

You know,

People were saying like,

Mrs.

Bennet is like,

Oh,

Jane is the prettiest of my daughters.

And my mom was like,

I think Lizzie is quite pretty.

I'm like,

Yeah,

But you got to remember that back then the typical norm of what is pretty is to be fair skinned,

Fair haired blue eyes,

Fair on the lighter tone of things where rather than the sort of darker hair,

Darker eyed or even darker skin.

And I think that people don't kind of understand what we would think is attractive now was not attractive back then,

Regardless whether they really are not attractive or not.

But it's amazing how some fans will be like,

They're too pretty to play this part.

And then others be like,

Well,

They're not pretty enough for this.

And it's like,

Can't the point of the story be that it's meant to be these two people who have a good chemistry together,

Make it work?

Because one of my teachers when I was in college,

I want to say it was Cleopatra and Anthony that she had seen the play,

It was something of that kind.

And she was like,

I couldn't believe it because the actors were not attractive at all.

And I was like,

Does that matter?

Like,

That was probably one of those moments where like,

I was slowly realizing I was demisexual.

Like,

What does that matter when it's like should be what the chemistry between two people are.

But yeah,

It's amazing how people are so focused on what is physically attractive,

That somehow equals to romantic traction versus being like,

How two people connect that leads to a romantic attraction.

Yeah,

Well,

That's the lore of many of them.

That's not really a reason to be with somebody.

So you just want to hook up.

Right.

I doesn't want to hook up with him.

And in my post,

It was the one I made years ago of why Joe shouldn't be with Laurie,

I made a mention of like,

How almost hypocritical it is that people say these things about Joe and Friedrich,

But there's a lot of parallels between the situations,

Not fully,

But like,

When you look on the outside of Jane Eyre and Mr.

Rochester,

Like people make comments of the age gap is not right,

Or they're not attractive.

How could they fall in love?

But it's like,

Well,

There's an age gap between Jane and Mr.

Rochester.

And in the novel,

Neither one of them are seen to be conventionally attractive.

Many of those same people will go,

Oh,

I love Joe.

I love Jane and Rochester.

They were so romantic.

And it's like,

A pot meat kettle.

You know,

It's amazing how people pick and choose what they want to like and what they won't like.

When I was doing the research on Henry Derek Carroll,

And I came to this part where it was mentioned that Henry didn't like traditional woman,

Or that he kind of had resentment for overly feminine woman.

I was like,

Damn,

Louisa would have been perfect for him.

I mean,

There is the speculation that they had an affair and I don't know if that's true,

But he would have been perfect for him,

At least in that sense,

Because,

You know,

She wasn't traditional and she kind of also rejected some parts of femininity.

I did a research on Henry and Louisa and I was so happy when I find out all the real Afridics and the real Afloris because it made me feel so validated.

Little women make a lot more sense when I found out about it,

Especially the story about Laddie,

Because,

You know,

I think one of the reasons why Louisa liked to hang out with him was because it's almost like she always wanted to have somebody there that she could take care of.

Was it then her sister or when she worked in the war as a nurse and then there was Laddie and she took care of him because he had tuberculosis.

You can see that Louisa always had this very maternal side that she liked to take care of people.

That was our chat today.

Thank you so much for listening.

Take care and make good choices.

Bye.