09: Healing Anxiety With Cindy Lora Renard

Anxiety has brought many people to A Course in Miracles, including Cindy Lora Renard. In this show, Cindy shares her experience with anxiety and offers practical insights and tools for working with anxiety and bringing your mind to a place of peace.

Get the show notes and takeaways on my website.

Transcript

This is from anxiety to love radio,

The show about undoing anxiety through a course in miracles and other pathways of love.

Gain insights and tools to deepen your awareness of the peace that is already in you.

I'm your host Corinne Zupko.

On today's episode of from anxiety to love radio,

I'm joining with Cindy Laura Renard.

As you'll hear,

I've been wanting to interview Cindy for quite some time because it turns out we are like anxiety and a course in miracles twins.

Chat with me and other listeners about this episode by joining our group on Facebook at from anxiety to love.

Com forward slash group.

Let's listen into my conversation with Cindy.

I am so excited to be here today with Cindy Laura Renard.

Cindy is an international speaker on a course in miracles,

Visionary musical talent and writer as well as a spiritual life coach.

She has a degree in spiritual psychology,

Which I didn't know there was such a thing.

That sounds so cool.

And she's been traveling the world with her husband,

Gary Renard,

In addition to her solo events helping to introduce the teachings of the course of miracles to many countries.

She also just released her first book,

A course in health and wellbeing,

And I'm so excited,

Cindy,

That you're here.

Welcome.

Thank you,

Corinne.

It's so good to be here with you.

When you participated in the Miracle Share virtual conference in 2016,

You said that anxiety is what brought you to the course.

And of course,

My little my little anxiety radar went up because that's exactly what brought me to the course.

And I would love to just begin by hearing your story,

How what the anxiety was like that you dealt with and how that brought you to the course and principles of the course that helped you.

I'd be happy to share that because I know many people share,

You know,

A similar experience.

And I've met a lot of people who have dealt with anxiety and the various forms that it takes and to the different degrees that you can experience it.

I experienced what I would call my first panic attack when I was 15 years old.

And it was a really startling,

Shocking experience because for many people that understand what what anxiety feels like,

Often people will say,

Well,

Gosh,

It feels like you're having a heart attack.

And it feels like that,

You know,

Because you don't understand,

You know,

Where it's coming from and what's going on.

So it feels like,

You know,

I'm having a heart attack.

So it was a very,

Very uncomfortable experience for me.

And the fear escalated because I had no idea what was causing it.

And because I felt fine in the body,

I mean,

Everything felt fine and I didn't feel like I was sick or anything.

So that kind of intensified the fear.

So as time went on and I still wasn't understanding,

You know,

Where it was coming from,

It started to escalate.

And I would I would get it in similar situations where where I felt that I was surrounded by a lot of people or I felt sort of trapped and I couldn't get out in those kinds of situations.

And I had it through for starting when I was 15 and it escalated a bit in my 20s.

And I reached sort of what I would call a more of a climax point in my 20s where it intensified so much where I thought,

Well,

You know what,

I got to do something,

You know,

About this.

So I usually resisted medication.

I've always been like that.

I usually sort of didn't care too much about,

You know,

Trying medications just for various reasons.

But I decided it was worth it.

You know,

So I decided to go on at a van and see what that was like.

And my doctor recommended it.

So I tried it.

And then I write about this in my book where it was actually a terrible experience for me because it felt like it intensified my feeling of depression.

So depression was intensifying and I felt the side effects were worse.

You know,

What was just putting me in a state of mind where I just I was depressed for about two weeks and I didn't want to get out of bed in the morning.

I was afraid to go outside.

I,

You know,

Was really pretty much afraid of everything,

You know,

And it was very intense.

I decided to go off the at a van and then I started to balance out a bit again when I went off it.

But during that time,

This is what I noticed.

I've always had sort of an innate feeling,

Though,

That I was always being taken care of and that everything would be OK.

I was always a positive person by nature.

And this is all before I was practicing A Course in Miracles,

Before I even knew about the course.

I had this built in nature that I just,

You know,

Was always very positive.

So I would tend to default to,

You know,

To that way of thinking,

To positive thinking as opposed to negative thinking.

And I had a lot of support around me during that time,

Too,

Which really helped.

My mother was so supportive.

My sister,

My,

You know,

Family in general just were always there,

You know,

For me to help comfort me during those times.

And it was during that time that I started to really open up spiritually,

Too.

I think actually the anxiety sort of intensified my interest and curiosity and spirit and going within more.

It was like a catalyst for me to turn inward.

So I started to go to the local bookstore and I would go to the metaphysical section.

And I was having all kinds of also psychic experiences at this time and out of body experiences.

I was just,

You know,

Really opening.

So I would go to the local bookstore and I would always see A Course in Miracles on the Shell.

And I never,

I didn't even know what it was.

I had no idea what it was saying.

But I was intrigued by it every time I'd go to the store.

And by this time I was already reading lots of spiritual type books.

I mean,

Anything I could get my hands on,

I was reading and I was just absorbing these ideas like a sponge,

Just anything that had to do with growing spiritually and psychically.

So I consider all that work in my 20s,

Reading all these books and opening spiritually along with searching as a result of having this anxiety that led me to finding the Course.

And it wasn't until my actually early 30s that my mother,

Who was a huge influence on me,

By the way,

Ever since I was in my mid teens,

All throughout my 20s,

She was always sharing with me all the things she was learning about all the spiritual things and books she was reading.

And she actually started doing A Course in Miracles before I did.

And she was sharing the teachings with me.

So I found it even more interesting and I really wanted to start exploring the Course.

But it wasn't until she brought home Gary Renard's book,

My husband,

The Disappearance of the Universe,

And she read it.

She said,

You know what,

Cindy,

This book,

You've got to read this.

It explains the Course so well.

And Gary's very funny in the book too.

So that's a whole other story.

But it was reading Gary's book that really got me interested in actually going through the workbook of the Course and doing the Course,

And really getting into it.

And that was back in 2005.

Wow.

Can I jump in before you continue?

Because I feel like we're anxiety twins because so much of what you're sharing,

I'm like,

Oh my gosh,

Me too.

Ativan was the drug that I took.

And actually,

It's so funny how we're all different because that actually helped me,

Almost like the eye of a hurricane,

Get a couple of fresh breaths before I kept facing the storm.

It wasn't something that I used that often or for very long because I just tried not to.

I had that same sort of hesitation about medication that you did.

But it's just so interesting how we're different.

But the innate feeling of always being taken care of,

I so relate to that.

I felt like I was the same way,

Just this sort of instinct that everything's going to be okay.

And I love also your mom having introduced you to the Course.

My mom introduced me to the Course as well.

And I think that with your introduction to Gary's book having come from your mom and that he's your husband now,

I would so love to chat about that a little bit.

But just to quickly share that a study group that my mom and I went to,

It was a Course study group,

When we left,

The facilitator,

His name was Joseph,

And I said to my mom,

When we were leaving,

I was like,

Mom,

I want him to be my stepdad because at this point,

My parents were divorced.

And she was like,

Corinne.

And sure enough,

He's my stepdad.

So it just,

Again,

Is sort of reminiscent that you were given Gary's book and he later becomes such a part of your life.

He becomes your husband.

So that's really awesome.

We do share a lot in common,

Actually.

I can tell.

And I want to mention too.

Later on,

When the anxiety,

By the way,

Did intensify,

I had little bouts of it later that were also kind of intense.

It didn't last as long as in my 20s.

But I also tried Xanax for a while.

That was much better for me.

Because I'm a believer in,

The Course says,

First of all,

It's about mind,

Not behavior.

It's about whatever is most loving and can help you move through the dream without fear.

And sometimes we need to use magic.

And I think the key is not to,

Whatever you do,

Do it without guilt.

That's the key.

You can't use it.

Yeah.

And do it with Holy Spirit.

So if I feel like I believe that I need that medicine right now,

Okay,

Like you're saying,

Do the kind thing.

And I'm going to take it with giving it to the Holy Spirit at the same time.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Because you can always do the mind work.

You can work with forgiveness at the mind level,

Remember what everything is for.

And at the same time,

You can be guided or inspired as to what on this level of form can be helpful for you at the same time.

Sometimes it might be taking medication,

Sometimes not.

But I think everyone would know.

You would know by your guidance and by how you feel,

If it works for you or not.

Definitely.

And people can trust that.

People can trust that.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Definitely.

So then in your journey at this point,

You read Gary's book that opens up the course to you.

And what happened next?

Did you find that your anxiety started to diminish?

Oh,

Gosh,

Much.

It did a lot.

In other words,

There was a time I would get it pretty often.

I mean,

It could be every day during certain periods.

It would diminish and it would sort of like go into remission in a way.

And then,

But yes,

In the big picture,

It was really,

Really diminishing as I started to really apply forgiveness and make more loving choices by choosing the Holy Spirit and being more mindful about which teacher I am choosing at any given moment.

And really being aware.

And so the course helped me.

The more and more I practiced forgiveness,

It really,

Which is what it does,

It undoes the unconscious guilt in the mind that is the cause of all suffering.

And so the more guilt that's removed,

I found that I was becoming more peaceful in general.

And it had a huge impact on the anxiety in a positive way because I found myself going through situations that used to bring about anxiety.

And I was realizing,

Oh my gosh,

I'm not feeling this now.

I used to be so anxious in this situation.

And then I would,

Or even if I did start feeling anxious,

I was able to work at the mind level to help calm myself down by remembering the truth,

By reminding my mind of right minded ideas,

Right minded ideas and my true identity with God.

And I would say things like the guiltless mind cannot suffer.

Sin does not exist.

I am as God created me.

And I would practice,

I would actually do the forgiveness steps though.

I would say,

I remember I'm dreaming.

I'm dreaming a dream of separation.

I'm dreaming a dream of fear.

This is not real fear.

It's a dream.

And if it's a dream,

I can change my mind about it.

And I forgive my projected images,

Myself for dreaming them.

Now I turn this over to the Holy Spirit and choose his peace.

Holy Spirit,

Judge,

You be the judge through me.

Help me to let go of my own judgment so that you can judge rightly through me.

And I would say these kinds of things and it really,

Really was helpful.

So that was the forgiveness process that you just referenced in your way of practicing forgiveness exactly what you just said,

Recognizing that you're dreaming the dream of fear,

That you can change those dreams because it's all at the mind level and forgiving your projected images.

I love how you just described that and then turning to the Holy Spirit and letting the Holy Spirit judge through you.

So that's it,

Right?

That's it.

That's it.

Beautiful.

Remember,

Your dreaming is step number one.

I mean,

That's identifying the cause.

As the Course says,

Identify the,

It's in alignment with the lesson 23 in the Course.

I can escape the world I see by giving up attack thoughts.

And in that lesson,

Just very powerful,

That's when Jesus introduces this forgiveness.

Identify the cause,

Then let it go so it can be replaced.

And part of that,

Identifying the cause is,

The cause is my own attack thoughts,

Thinking with the ego.

And so part of that first step is,

Yes,

You remember your dreaming.

These thoughts are not your real thoughts.

In other words,

Attack thoughts are ego,

Which is illusory.

So then you can let it go,

Which is forgiving yourself for your own projected images,

Yourself for dreaming them.

Then the third step is,

It's already been replaced.

The Holy Spirit will take your forgiveness and the Holy Spirit handles the correction in the mind.

It's the Holy Spirit's job.

Once you do those first two steps,

You can just turn it over and trust it's being taken care of and you're being taken care of.

I love that.

It's important too,

That last step,

Just to highlight again for everyone listening,

That it's the Holy Spirit that does that correction.

It's not us.

It's not me thinking a new thought and just sticking with that new thought and trying to self-correct and do that correction myself.

It's always important that we let the Holy Spirit do the Holy Spirit's job.

Yes,

Yes.

I do have some recommendations too that can help people move through anxiety too.

That I've tried,

That I think are very,

Very helpful.

I think the first thing is to really trust in the divine plan,

Not the ego's plan,

Not the ego's,

But trust there is a divine plan.

When we remember that we're mentally reviewing a script,

We're not really in the world experiencing this.

The world is still in our minds.

We trust that we're mentally reviewing a script.

As we're mentally reviewing even a painful situation or even an anxious situation,

We still have the ability to choose how we perceive it.

Now,

It doesn't always mean the anxiety will go away.

Maybe it will,

Maybe it won't,

But at least you can say,

Well,

I'm a mind,

I'm not a body.

I trust that if I just tune in and I choose the Holy Spirit's way of looking at this,

Which is reminding the mind that,

Hey,

I'm still innocent,

That separation isn't true and what my body's eyes are seeing isn't true.

I'm having a dream that I'm anxious right now.

Once you do that inner work,

You can trust in the divine plan that it's being taken care of and remembering.

We don't have to take ourselves so seriously either.

We can almost remember to laugh the best we can.

We just remember to lighten up a bit.

It's the seriousness we take everything in our lives that makes the world real,

Makes everything more real.

By letting go of seriousness,

That's healing in and of itself even.

You can even just sort of shrug it off like,

Okay,

Here I go again.

I'm feeling this feeling of anxiousness.

You know what?

You can remember to laugh and just be light and go,

Hey,

This is not my reality and I'm going to move through this like I've done before.

I have having the conviction that you will succeed.

In other words,

You can have the conviction that you will succeed as you turn it over.

One thing that I want to share that has also really helped me is part of where anxiety comes from is its anticipation of fear of what's to come.

It's anticipation of fear of the future.

The Course says that when we dwell on the past or the future,

It's actually a defense mechanism against a present change of mind.

What we want to do is do the best we can to move into this holy instant,

This presence.

We can do that.

One exercise that's helpful to help you at least get in that space of feeling really present,

Signed for my work though,

Is actually becoming aware in that moment of every sound you can hear in that moment,

Every movement surrounding you focusing only what's happening right in front of your face in that instant.

This can bring you right into the present.

For me,

It helps to just focus on every sound I can hear in that moment.

You just sort of tune in and you listen.

It's a way of getting this conscious ego chattering mind out of the way and having you focus on what's happening just right now,

Right in front of you.

When I've done that,

I forget actually the fear-based thoughts tend to go away because I'm pulled right to what's happening right here,

Right five inches from my face.

Then if a thought comes in,

An ego-based thought,

That is a fear thought that says,

Oh,

But I'm going to.

.

.

What if I pass out?

What if I stop breathing?

What if I.

.

.

Those anxious type thoughts.

Say to yourself in your mind,

This thought I am having is preventing me from accepting my true function,

Which is forgiveness,

Which is accepting the correction that's already in my mind.

God is alive in me now.

You can visualize yourself totally calm and peaceful in the situations that normally bring you fear and anxiety.

Visualize yourself totally calm and peaceful in that same setting,

Taking care of in the light of God,

The light is surrounding you and that you are this light.

You can say,

Again,

God is alive in me now.

Any thought that comes in,

That's a fear thought.

Then again,

This thought I'm having is preventing me from accepting my true function.

These kinds of things are very comforting.

So comforting and so beautiful.

God is alive in me now,

Just dropping into that for even a moment is just so relieving.

It's so relieving.

I love just to go back to a statement that you said earlier too,

Reminding yourself,

I'm a mind,

Not a body.

I love how you said that because I always had so much comfort with that course teaching that I am not a body,

But I never actually added on that I'm a mind.

So if I'm not a body,

What am I?

I'm a mind.

It can really help make us feel grounded if we're not a body to remember that it is that we're a mind,

But that we're using the body to learn that we're not the body.

So this activity that you just gave about just paying attention so closely to what's right in front of your face,

I love that because I really am into mindfulness practices as well.

And one of the practices that comes to mind for helping people get grounded is for you to name five non-distressing things that you see immediately in front of you,

Five non-distressing things that you can hear,

And five things that you can just sense in your body.

And by the time you really tune into each of those five things,

It just is a constant practice of taking yourself out of your head and just focusing,

Like you're saying,

Getting out of that ego,

Mind,

Whirl,

And coming into the now,

Which is where the Holy Spirit is.

I love that.

Yeah,

I love that.

And I think it's that focus.

It's like snapping yourself out,

Whatever it is that can snap yourself out of the focus on the body,

The focus on the ego.

Sometimes too for me,

What it helps is remembering,

You know what?

What is the purpose of the body really for?

There are two purposes.

There's the ego's purpose and there's the Holy Spirit's purpose.

Yes,

The body is in the mind,

Doesn't really exist,

But the Holy Spirit uses the illusion of what we made to help lead us home.

So when I remember that the purpose of my body according to the Holy Spirit is to use it as a communication device to let its innocence,

Love,

Wisdom,

You know,

I'm nothing less than God mentality,

The innocence of that extend through me so that I can extend that to all my brothers and sisters.

That's the real purpose of the body from the whole.

So I remember that when I make that shift in my mind too,

If I use my body for the ego's purpose,

I'm going to use it to attack myself.

You know,

That's what the ego does.

It uses it to attack.

Sometimes even just remembering,

You know,

Reminding that that's part of reminding yourself your mind and if you're a mind,

You can be just as vigilant against the ego's dictates as for it,

Jesus says in the Course.

We can be just,

You know,

And anxiety comes from the unpredictability of the ego.

And he says we can be just as vigilant against the ego's dictates as for it.

We can have the conviction that we can succeed and we will,

You know.

So what a very powerful,

You know,

Exercise is also,

And Jesus says this in another lesson.

He says,

He goes,

Take my hand,

Imagine taking my hand and I'm walking through the dark clouds of guilt.

And he says,

I assure you this is no idle thought.

You know,

When you think of me,

I am with you.

So imagine this is what I do.

I imagine I'm literally holding his hand and he's walking with me through whatever,

If I'm having a fearful thought or something,

He's walking with me through it and I'm totally safe and taken care of in the light of God.

That for me is a very,

Very helpful comforting tool.

It's just a visualization,

You know.

To know that we're not alone.

Like again,

How the Course says,

If you knew who walks beside you on the path that you've chosen,

Fear would be impossible.

And so I love just what you're bringing up that we can visualize this to remind ourselves that we are not alone because that anxiety,

As you described before,

When we get so fixated just on the fear,

You know,

Anxiety has that such a constricting tunnel vision.

You know,

You're not aware of anything else.

And just that thought of holding that hand,

That lifeline,

The fact that we are not alone,

That to me immediately just stirs up a feeling of love and helps me start to re-expand my awareness that was constricted before,

Was in that tunnel vision space.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think,

Too,

When I look back,

In other words,

At all the intense moments I have had around anxiety,

I think ultimately what I'm really fascinated by is that what,

You know,

Aside from everything we've been talking about,

There's something that we all have,

You know,

That when we just remember that we are much stronger than we believe ourselves to be,

That we're much,

We have,

You know,

Having just that faith that you're gonna be okay and that you really can move through.

You're that powerful,

In other words.

You're that powerful that you can move through very,

Very seemingly difficult times.

And what gets us through that?

There's a part of our minds that knows the truth.

We are still connected to that.

Sometimes we might not believe it's there in moments of intense fear,

But it's always consistent and never goes away.

And this is what we can trust.

And when we just remember,

It's that remembering that,

Wait a minute,

I am as God created me.

I cannot have a will apart from God.

I cannot,

It's impossible.

You know,

I may believe that I can,

You know,

Temporarily,

But I can never really lose that.

It never really goes away.

And all I need to do is remember it's that remembering and go back into my mind and choose again what I would have myself be.

You know,

I can be perfect spirit,

Whole and innocent,

You know,

As God created me,

Or I can feed the ego what it wants and I can keep perpetuating those thoughts of fear.

So I have a choice.

And this is why I love the course.

It's because it's really about the mind and that we can always remember and return to our minds and choose again,

Along with whatever else is helpful for us on the level.

But we can just do that mind work and that forgiveness,

Which is so powerful.

Yeah.

I love how you're bringing this point up that all we need to do is remember that that memory is still within us because I facilitate a study group on Sunday nights and we were just reading a passage about that,

You know,

It's an ancient melody that seems so faint and yet like some of the notes still there,

They're still there.

They remain in our mind.

And it occurred to me that because that memory is still in us,

We can still remember,

You know,

All of our defenses are really defending out this memory.

You know,

We're trying to keep out this memory of truth or the ego,

As I should say.

And it's a memory.

Like what are we so afraid of remembering something that's already in us?

Like it's already in us.

It's already part of us.

We just have to open to it.

So I just wanted to highlight that I love how you said that that all we need to do is remember that we can rest in that confidence that we are strong enough to make it through because we are not alone.

Yes.

You know,

It's a trick of the ego to think that,

You know,

Because you might be like alone in a room,

For example,

That you're really alone.

You know,

That's a trick of the ego to say,

But you know,

One is without the help and guidance of their mighty companions is of course,

There's always help.

There's always love surrounding you,

Whether we see it or not.

That's where faith comes in.

That's where trust comes in.

And regardless of what I'm experiencing right now,

I'm still in the light of God.

I've not left my source.

Nothing happened.

Nothing happened.

You know,

That's accepting the atonement,

Accepting it for myself.

Nothing happened.

The separation of God has not occurred.

I'm still in the light of God.

You know,

I can choose that right now.

You know,

I can remember,

You know,

And I,

You know,

There's a beautiful part of the course that it's called the quiet center and everybody has this quiet center that they can return to in the mind where I love the course's language when it says you can sink downward and inward in your mind and you can find this quiet center,

You know,

Where the Holy Spirit resides,

You know,

And it's from that place,

You know,

Find your center when it's from that place that you'll be directed how to use the body lovelessly.

I love that.

Yeah,

I mean,

You'll be guided how to use the body with love instead of fear is what I mean.

Awesome.

This is such good stuff.

Of course,

The course is going to help undo anxiety.

I mean,

Listen to all these amazing things.

So helpful.

And you've given us so many practical examples and tools to work with for working with anxiety.

So I thank you for that.

The practical piece is really,

Really super helpful.

Did we make it through everything that you wanted to share about those tools for working with anxiety?

One more thing.

One other thing and tool that I have used is I imagine myself being breathed by God.

I'm not doing the breathing.

God is breathing me because I'm not apart from him,

Just like we are all a thought in the mind of God.

So one way to work with that on this level,

Think in terms of so many people with anxiety experience breathing problems.

So this is one way to work with that.

Imagine you're being breathed by God.

To have a visceral experience of this,

Put your hand on your heart.

As you say that in your mind,

I'm being breathed.

And it feels just more personal.

That's why I recommend that.

It feels like you're really making a connection.

So put your hand on your heart and say I'm being breathed by God.

I'm in the mind of God and I never left.

Cindy,

I wish you could see the big smile on my face because I love that so much.

And again,

Here's another parallel.

My mom used to say that all the time.

Let God breathe me.

Let God breathe me.

So I just love that you brought that up because I haven't thought about that in a long time.

Oh,

Oh gosh.

It's so interesting.

Oh,

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

That's really awesome.

Wow.

Well,

Thank you so much.

Now before,

I would love to learn more and share with our listeners more about your book.

Sure.

Sure.

Yeah.

It's called A Course in Health and Well-being.

And I was inspired to write it because Gary and I get so many questions in our workshops about well,

How do I apply the course in my life when I'm feeling like when I have this illness,

Whatever the form that takes.

Or when I'm feeling so much pain.

Or how do I we get so many questions around that.

I'm like,

You know,

I'm going to write a book that expands on the course's view on these things.

How do we look at the body from the course's perspective?

So that's what inspired me to write it in the first place was the popularity of those kinds of questions.

And so I address issues of health.

I first explain what the course's definition is for health.

And you know,

It's interesting because the course says health is inner peace.

See,

The course is not about the body,

You'll notice.

It's not about behavior and not what we should do in the world with our bodies.

Number one,

Because it's saying we aren't bodies,

Of course,

And that's the illusion.

But it says health is inner peace.

Health is relinquishing all attempts to use the body lovelessly.

So health,

Once we take care of the mind at the mind level,

The effect,

The world,

The body takes care of itself.

We don't have to worry specifically about what we're doing here when we're choosing our right minds.

When we're in our right minds,

We can trust that we're being guided to what is most loving,

You know,

That we could do for ourselves at this level.

And so I address the mind level,

But I do also give practical,

You know,

Examples and tips people can use also to help the ego relax,

You know,

At this level,

Like getting a massage or,

You know,

Drinking lots of water,

Watching and being mindful of what you're putting in,

You know,

Your body.

Because the reason I bring those things up is because the course isn't saying to deny our experience here.

That would be an unworthy form of denial.

But it is saying you can deny the ability of anything not of God to affect you.

So that's the goal of the course is that we can,

And my book expands on the idea that no matter what is going on in the world,

Or with whatever,

If you have an illness,

Whatever it is,

That the goal of the course is that I can experience peace regardless of what's happening,

Regardless.

That's the goal.

And true forgiveness is the key,

You know,

Means for the undoing of the ego,

The dream of pain.

So when people are experiencing illness,

You know,

Any kind of illness or intense pain in the body,

One thing to remember is,

Hey,

I'm having a dream of pain.

And if I'm having a dream of pain,

I can change my mind about it.

I can remember this is a mental process,

Not a physical one.

This is good for anxiety,

Too.

This is a mental process.

So no matter even what symptoms I may feel,

It's still a mental process.

And when I get very clear about that in my mind,

That it's mental,

Not physical,

This is where my true power is.

I can work with changing it in my mind,

How I'm perceiving myself,

How I'm looking at it,

You know,

And who I'm looking at it with,

Ego or the Holy Spirit.

So my book just goes really a lot deeper in touching on these kind of,

You know,

On these themes,

You know,

And empowering ways to deal with pain,

You know,

And there's powerful exercises and visualizations you can do where you're calling in the Holy Spirit,

Imagining that you're,

You literally are the light and the light is,

You know,

All around you,

Washing over you,

Imagining the Holy Spirit absolving you of all guilt,

You know,

And,

You know,

Turning it over always,

Every day,

Your whole day to the Holy Spirit and everything you're thinking to the Holy Spirit.

But so my book addresses,

Goes deeper into the steps of true forgiveness.

I give examples and some from my own life.

I give practical exercises.

And it's just an over,

A much more broader view,

Taking specific ideas and the course that deals with health.

Awesome.

One of the big things I used to struggle with was illness anxiety.

And it sounds like your book would have been,

There wasn't anything like it back,

You know,

Back in my day when I was really going through this intense piece and to just have that deeper understanding of what the course is teaching surrounding the body and healing and everything that you're saying that your book is about sounds like a really,

Really wonderful resource.

Yes.

Yeah.

Let's face it.

It's very easy in the face of any illness and that's the purpose,

By the way,

Of all sickness.

The purpose of it is to keep us focused on the world,

On the body.

That's the ego's purpose for all illness.

Now this doesn't mean we should feel guilty because sickness was already established when the ego made up a world of time and space.

The ego projected a world with bodies that appear to be both healthy and sick.

That's duality.

And the course is a non-dualistic,

Of course,

And it's teaching us that all of it's untrue.

You know,

There's a way to really get in touch with that power in the mind to remember that,

Hey,

None of it's real.

Whether I have a healthy body or sick body,

It's still not the truth,

Still not reality.

It's always about changing the mind.

I can choose to look at this differently and that's the real power.

That's the focus of the course at the mind level.

And then again,

As we undo the ego,

We are undoing guilt,

Which is the cause of all suffering.

And when we do that,

Then we become inspired as to the most loving thing that will come through us that might be helpful to us here.

Which doctor should I go to?

Which practical things here?

Which,

You know,

The course is saying you shouldn't go to your doctor,

You know,

Or anything like that.

It doesn't deal with the world.

But you can be inspired though and be guided as to what can be the most loving approach to take.

Right.

Yeah.

And that's the goal.

Awesome.

I cannot wait to read your book.

I'm so,

So excited that you,

I know it goes into writing and I'm so excited that you did it for us.

So thank you.

Oh my gosh.

My pleasure.

Now I have one more question kind of unrelated to anxiety before I ask you about your takeaway.

And that is how did you go from reading Gary's book to him being your husband?

Because that's just so cool.

After I read his book,

It was so obvious that my mother and I,

And even my sister as well,

We were all so connected with the message in his book and that resonated so much with us and we all felt we knew Gary very well.

We all felt we recognized him.

And I had a very deep feeling of that.

So my mother suggested we go to Las Vegas.

This was in 2006,

To hear him speak.

So my mother and I decided just to go.

We wanted to meet him.

So we went to a workshop he was giving and that's where I actually met him back in 2006 in the book signing line.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

And I also tell this story in my book,

A longer version of it,

But in a nutshell,

So I met him in the book signing line.

We made an immediate connection and I could tell he felt also that he knew me.

I could just tell that he had the same reaction.

And I gave him a way to contact me because he asked if there was a way for him to contact me.

And I said,

Yeah,

On my website.

And he contacted me a few days later.

We just started,

We started to keep in touch.

He explained to me that he felt he had known me in many lifetimes.

He had that very strong feeling.

And the thing is he knew before and he didn't say anything to me,

But he knew right away that I was Artin appearing to him.

One of Gary's teachers in his books,

My Future Self.

And Gary put that together right away that he was Artin.

Wow.

He was Artin.

And he just didn't tell me right away.

But we just kept in touch during that first year that we met.

And we realized after a while that,

Hey,

We're meant to be together.

We have things to do together.

Awesome.

I love a good love story.

Thank you for sharing.

Sure.

That's awesome.

So what is the takeaway that you would like to leave with our listeners?

Never give up on the idea.

Never ever give up that no matter how uncertain or doubtful you may feel about whatever is going on in your life,

You can always trust and remember that God is just a thought away in your mind.

And you can always remember that you can return to your mind in the face of great challenges and choose again,

Remembering what you really are cannot be hurt in any way.

What you really are is a vulnerable spirit,

Totally innocent,

Nothing less than God.

And that you can rely on that.

You can totally trust that because the Holy Spirit only sees you as you are in truth in your innocence.

So by always remembering that throughout the day and maybe having moments where you train the mind to just to remember that wait a minute,

If I'm not feeling good in this moment or if I feel bad,

No matter what the form that takes,

It must just mean that I'm thinking with the ego,

That I've decided with my wrong mind,

I'm looking at it with my wrong mind.

I don't have to keep looking at it that way.

I can choose the Holy Spirit's interpretation of this.

It's always perception is interpretation,

Not fact.

So I can go back into my mind and choose again,

That there is another way that I can perceive this person or the world or whatever is going on in my life.

And I can look at it with peace instead of fear.

That's what I'd like to leave.

That gave me goosebumps,

Cindy.

Thank you.

I just to highlight again,

What you just said,

That moment where I just was like,

It took my breath away.

God is just a thought away.

Just a thought.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here.

This is so incredibly helpful.

And I just am so filled with gratitude that you took the time to join with us.

Oh,

Thank you.

It's been fun.

It's been so fun.

As I said to Cindy,

I cannot wait to read her book.

You can find out about Cindy's appearances,

Her store,

Her book,

Her music on her website,

Which is cindylora.

Com.

So in addition to Cindy's takeaway,

I have a few takeaways that I could not narrow down.

So I have five takeaways for you today.

Number one,

You are always taken care of.

Even if this doesn't seem like an innate feeling for you,

It's true.

That care comes from spirit within you,

And the more you tune in,

The more you will connect with this feeling.

You are always taken care of.

Number two,

Using quote unquote magic is okay.

Magic is A Course in Miracles term,

And you can think about it as referring to anything that we believe is capable of healing us outside of our own minds,

Like medication.

So take medicine if you believe you need it,

And do it without guilt,

And do it with spirit.

Number three,

Apply forgiveness.

And I love how Cindy summed this up so succinctly.

She said,

First,

For forgiveness,

Remember your dreaming,

That you're thinking with the ego's attack thoughts.

Second,

Let it go or hand it over to spirit.

You're forgiving yourself for your own projected images.

And the third step in this forgiveness process is to know that it has already been replaced.

The miracle has already been given,

And spirit handles that correction in our minds,

Not us.

So going back to my takeaways,

My fourth takeaway,

All you need to do is remember.

There's a memory already in you of truth.

Truth is already in you.

You don't have to seek for it.

You just have to let it be,

And the memory will return.

Drop everything you think you know and just open to what is.

And my fifth takeaway,

That statement that Cindy said,

God is breathing me.

God is breathing me.

What a releasing statement to just know that you are not in control of anything,

Which is a wonderful thing.

Even your breath,

You're allowing God to breathe you.

I love that.

It's so comforting to me.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you have not already signed up for my crash course in undoing anxiety,

It's a three-part video series.

You can grab it and check out more about it at fromanxietytolove.

Com forward slash crash course with a hyphen between crash course.

So crash hyphen course.

I love you all.

Sending so much love.

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