Bhagavad-Gita 5th Chapter Glimpse

In this episode, Syama and I speak about the yoga of action without material ambition, niskama-karma-yoga. Here the seeds of wisdom planted by Krishna in chapter 3 are beginning to bear fruit. This is where things start to happen. In the basic yoga of action, one still has material ambition but begins to appreciate and pay hommage to the bigger picture outside of one’s personal bubble. In niskama-karma yoga, one starts to have real understanding about the workings of the world and how the inner

Transcript

Hello Yogi,

Welcome to my podcast.

I'm Aiko and on this show we explore ways to put spiritual theory into sustainable practice.

Hello,

Welcome again to this podcast.

Thank you,

Aiko.

Today we continue from where we left,

So we are in chapter 5.

Can you say something about this or maybe can you just make a brief recap?

Yes,

So if we just look back at the two previous chapters,

Because they are the most relevant here in discussing this chapter.

So the third chapter,

In the third chapter,

Krishna is kind of sowing seeds and in this fifth chapter the fruits of those seeds are being born.

And in the chapter in between we had the yoga of knowledge.

But in chapter 3,

Which is the yoga of action,

Krishna is teaching Arjuna to acknowledge that we are part of a bigger picture.

It's not just like us in our little bubble.

We are part of a big picture and we need to kind of contribute to the big picture.

And he's instructing Arjuna to kind of make sacrifices,

That you make sacrifices to the gods to kind of acknowledge that we are dependent on higher powers,

Such as the sun and the rain and the earth and so on.

But like still continuing your,

Kind of maintaining your identity in this world.

Like we had given the example of a mother,

Right,

Who raised her kids and gave all the love and affection,

But it's not that those kids will be,

I mean they will be her kids forever,

But they won't be child forever.

They will go to the world,

Do their job,

Have their own family.

Also in the same way you give all your effort,

But know that one day they will start their own paths.

Is that correct?

Yes,

That's a very beautiful kind of simile here.

And you can see like,

So if the third chapter is kind of the beginning of this sort of like,

You know,

Like you have some knowledge that your kids won't like be in your house forever.

So you kind of prepare them for the world in a sense,

But that's still long ways away.

You know,

Like let's say there are five,

But you know,

You will have them until they're 18 or something.

So you're not like thinking,

Oh,

Like they're going to go out in the world.

Like you have some knowledge of that,

But what's happening in this fifth chapter is kind of like when this is actually happening,

It's like when you kind of realize like,

Oh,

Like now it's actually their time to go out.

You know,

Like then you will see how you actually,

If you actually really meant what you said about,

You know,

Like that they won't be with me forever.

Yeah.

So,

And what about the fourth chapter?

Yeah,

So the fourth chapter was the yoga of knowledge and there was the quote you also brought up in relation where that was that like knowledge is to learn something every day and wisdom is to let go of something every day.

And of course,

Like this,

This type of knowledge here is about letting go,

But still you have to do the letting go part.

So the quote is very like related to this chapter that,

Yes,

It is the yoga of knowledge,

But you will see if you did it right,

Like when,

If you actually naturally let go.

Okay,

Good.

So we have a good recap,

I think.

So what is happening in chapter five?

Really what's the title of chapter five?

Yes,

So different translators are giving different names to the chapter.

Nishkama karma yoga is like usually what's thought to be talked,

That it's talked about in this chapter.

So if the third chapter was karma yoga,

The yoga of action,

This chapter is the yoga of action,

But without an ambition.

So like at this point,

The fruit of the seeds,

Like I said,

That Krishna was sowing in the third chapter are kind of coming here.

Because in the,

Like I said,

In the third chapter,

Krishna is talking about the bigger picture,

Like make your sacrifices to kind of pay tribute to like the bigger picture that you're a part of.

He also talks about,

Like he also gives some knowledge in the third chapter and even more in the fourth chapter,

Which is like the actual chapter about knowledge,

The yoga of knowledge.

But even in the third chapter,

He talks about how a person in ignorance thinks that they are doing things in this world,

But actually it's just the laws of nature doing the things and the soul is kind of just there as a witness.

It is not,

As we heard Monspruhe explain the other day,

That it's not that the soul is only a witness.

It also has some agency,

But it's not like that we as the soul are deciding everything.

We are in control of some things,

But not everything.

Can you elaborate on this?

Yeah.

Like let's say like you want something.

It's not that you can just have whatever you want.

So that there is our will,

But then there is also past karma.

There is,

You know,

Other people's wills and there are so many factors that there is like our capacity.

We may want something that we're not capable of and so on.

But someone who is ignorant of this considers only like one's own will and doesn't see like the rest.

In the fifth chapter,

It's talking about how the yogi is realizing this,

Like starting to actually see this,

Even if he can't,

He's not like entirely disconnected from the world.

But he's like still in the world,

But like kind of seeing the mechanisms and understanding that he's like not in control of what's going on.

It's something that just kind of goes on and the soul is there as its own reality.

That's not really affected by it.

He also does not give up action at this point.

But he,

Because it is also not correct to just like give up your duties just because you understand that you're not getting any real benefit on the soul level from them.

You are still in this world,

Which is kind of facilitating your yogic practice.

So you kind of just do your worldly duties just kind of by second nature and the whole thing becomes a sacrifice.

So if in the karma yoga of chapter three,

You do your work and then you sacrifice some of the results.

But on this stage,

Like in the fifth chapter of Nishkama karma yoga,

You don't have any ambition of enjoying something after like you just like do your duty and whatever comes comes and you're not really caring about that.

You're kind of focusing on your inner spiritual practice,

But active in the world just for the sake of duty.

That's a very interesting concept.

Can you give some practical examples like in the daily life of office worker,

He just go work.

So he has money to pay his food,

His rent and then when he goes home,

He's meditate or can you give some other kind of practical example of this concept,

This kind of yoga?

Yeah,

I think actually that was a very good example.

It's like in general people,

I mean,

Of course,

We just simply have to work to have money to kind of live in this world.

I mean,

Unless you're living in the woods or something,

Eating roots.

But just like,

Let's say you're like a normal person.

You simply need to work.

But also,

Just like being in this world,

Like you have a lot of desires to like do things and in the world,

Kind of connected with the world.

But this Nishkama karma yoga doesn't have those ambitions.

He may still have the kind of lingering desires,

Just like the kind of,

It's hard to explain,

But kind of like having a desire that you don't really identify with.

But you simply work as all other people do.

And then you,

Yeah,

Like you said,

Whatever spare time you have,

You simply focus it on your spiritual practice.

I could think of one kind of simile and that is like,

You may be a cocaine addict.

What is the drug that you take methadone to kind of get free from?

Heavy.

Okay.

So let's say you're a heroin addict and you're kind of glorifying heroin and really identifying as a heroin user culturally and you're in some kind of sub underground culture.

But then like,

If you kind of come to like,

Realize the like madness of that,

You may still have the kind of chemical addiction,

Even though you kind of realize that it's like not the life you want to have.

So you may still like need some kind of drug just to be able to like live.

So in Nishkama karma yoga,

Something like that.

Kind of harsh example,

I think.

Yeah.

I apologize for that.

Because at this stage where we are,

We don't like realize the madness of what we're doing in this world when we're just like chasing after things to feel happy.

It's there's this verse in this chapter,

In chapter five,

That explains that the happiness that comes from or like what we think of as happiness,

The type of happiness that comes from simply contacting senses with sense objects are the womb that suffering is born from.

That's very interesting.

I think when we were reading from the Bhagavad Gita,

There was a part when they were saying that suffering and enjoyment has a beginning and an end.

And it made me think that actually we are not,

We are cyclical being.

We get burned,

We die,

Then we rebirth and we kind of go on and everything.

Like if you see also the water on earth,

There is a rain,

Then it goes in the sea.

There is all this cyclical being,

A cyclical thing.

But by this material happiness,

Which is kind of fake happiness and suffering,

There is always a beginning,

But there is also an end.

So we can reach that end.

Yes.

Like we will inevitably reach the end of both suffering and enjoyment.

Can you say something more about this chapter?

What is actually happening?

What Krishna is saying to Arjuna?

And what Arjuna is replying to?

The chapter is mainly Krishna speaking.

Arjuna just asks a question in the beginning that kind of sparks the chapter.

The exact question is like that there is this yoga of knowledge and there is this yoga of action.

So which one is the best?

But Krishna is explaining that actually this yoga of action will lead to the yoga of action without ambition.

That yoga of action without ambition will naturally lead to the yoga of knowledge.

Because when you get the direct experience of what you are understanding on a deep level in Nishkama Karma Yoga but not experiencing yet,

It will turn over into the yoga of knowledge naturally.

Do you want to quote something from this chapter?

Yes the last verse of the chapter is a famous verse that has been called the peace formula.

It is kind of saying that if you accept that God is the owner of everything and that He is also your friend then you will have peace.

Because people are arguing over who owns what but actually no one here is owning anything.

It all belongs to God.

But He is also the friend of everyone.

So it is not like there is someone who owns something who is taking it all for himself.

He is actually sharing it with everyone.

In the documentary from David Attenborough he is saying like it is so crazy.

He didn't say crazy maybe but it is so crazy that humans they are fighting over who is the owner of the land.

Well the land should be just the land.

Mother earth,

You know,

She is not belong to anyone but herself.

And everyone should be free to live wherever they want.

And I think it is very beautiful how he expressed this in his documentary.

Yes and the Bhagavad Gita would agree.

There is other texts that say things like that the earth is just laughing over all the people who are fighting over her.

Because it is like a joke to her.

Imagine that you are having a bunch of ants walking on your arm or something and they are arguing over who is owning what part of the arm.

And you can just blow them away or something with one,

You know.

So do you want to give an overview from the beginning of the Bhagavad Gita to now and a little bit introduce the next chapter just to end this episode?

Yes it is always like I said before the third and fourth chapter are the most relevant to this but actually it is always relevant to go back to the first chapter because that is like the basis which is attachment to objectification which is what we have to uproot.

And that is the kind of like the bottom line of the Bhagavad Gita.

In the second chapter we get an overview of the whole book which goes for 18 chapters the whole book.

So then we kind of go back again in the third chapter to kind of starting like the process of how we are going to systematically deal with the problem of objectification that we have inside.

So it talks about karma yoga giving up a part of the results of one's actions and also receiving some knowledge even though one does not have deep understanding of it yet but just by this practice one will naturally understand more and more about the nature of being and of the world.

The fourth chapter is more just more elaboration on this knowledge of the difference between the self and the material body and then in the fifth chapter things are starting to happen like the fruits are coming of the seeds of knowledge that have been sown so far.

Because I would say this chapter is when things are starting to happen.

Yes and the next chapter,

Chapter six is Ashtanga Yoga.

So Krishna is giving like yet a different way to kind of uproot the problem of objectification by this,

By the eightfold yoga system with its asana practice and so on.

Yeah it's gonna lead to,

Because the Bhagavad Gita is like three times six.

The first six chapters,

The middle six chapters and the final six chapters they are grouped like that and these first six chapters are a lot about the self and realization of the self and then the middle six chapters are more about God realization.

So towards the end of chapter six it's gonna kind of start going that direction.

Okay so thank you again and see you next time for chapter six.

Thank you it was lovely.

I hope this episode fulfilled its purpose of inspiring you.

If you like it feel free to share it,

Give a review or a rating,

Subscribe.

And if you have any questions please get in touch at aikoyoga-eiki.

Com.

Namaste.

Reviews

Thank you,